成人快手

OK, so Wayne Rooney should have kept a bit calmer, but from where I was sitting, he did not commit a violent act. He was being pulled and fouled for what seemed an age. The Portuguese player unfortunately was hoisted by his own petard. In his attempt to pull Rooney back he fell and slipped legs akimbo under Rooney, who was knocked off balance and was ONLY trying to put is foot down. He could not have known (unless he had eyes in his backside) that the players groin was awaiting his foot. It was hardly a "stamoing" action, it was just a natural reaction to regain his balance. No-one knows what would have happened had he stayed on , maybe the result would have been the same, but I doubt it....The referee made some very strange decisions. How could Terry deserve to be booked for getting knocked out in an accidental clash of heads? Wht was Crouch bookedd, he did nothing wrong.

To Thomas - Thanks that little one liner! I couldnt decide who to back tonight between Germany and Italy and you have made my mind up for me... FORZA ITALIA!

To Thomas

Yeah right.
Brazil thought that they already had a 6th star, what makes you so sure to have your 4th?

How come France, Italy and Ukraine are grouped together in the Euro 2008 qualifying.
Were there no seedings? Imagine only 2 of these 3 talented teams will be at Euro 2008.

As a dutchman who supports both Holland and England, this World Cup has been horrific. Of course I want my team(s) to win, but if beaten by a clearly better opponent, so be it. But the likes of Portugal (for me it happened twice in a row this World Cup) have left me phased. And to be honest, I am not really interested in who wins it anymore. Sure I might watch the game if I come across it, but I fear it will be too painful.

Sigh, another 4 years wait...

Do not only look at the stars - if we win today it's going to be our 8th (!) final since 1954!

1954, 1966, 1974, 1982, 1986, 1990, 2002 and maybe 2006. This is just incredible and does not leave much room for discussion about who (England or Germany) is better at the WCs... ;)

So, because that issue is IMHO settled, you can feel free, to cheer for our team. ;)

Anyway, I think that most so-called "world-class"-players, who play in the Premier League, in Italy or Spain are overrated. I haven't seen much of Ronaldinho, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Adriano, Ibrahimovic, Robben, van Bommel, Raul etc. etc - just to mention a few.

What I have seen is much of Ronaldo, but just because he's overweight... ;)

madhu, actually only one of France, Italy and Ukraine (probably Italy) will make it to Euro 2008... the other is of course Scotland!
I'm serious, I see a bright future for Scotland and expect to see the gap between our ranking and England's close swiftly over the next few years.

@Flo:

Regarding world class players there is a clearer more obvious reason for their underperformance: most have had long seasons playing in the national and international competitions and German players havent.

The German league is smaller gameswise in comparison to the English or Spanish League (34 games vs 42/38, not counting cup tourny's).

Not many German teams progressed far in the international tournaments, nor do many German players play for foreign internationally active teams.

Finally, the Germans havent had to play qualifying matches.

Always keep this in mind before complaining about top class players not performing. And that is not even mentioning the horrible ball which has been used this worldcup, or the dry fields on which have been played on (which is the German(!) groundsmen responsibillity...)

Glad you refer to the myth that this England squad was the best we had since 66, a myth founded and perpetuated by those who think football only really began with the Premiership in 1992. The fact is that this squad was possibly the worst we had since 66, not the best.

As for the winners? Anyone except Portugal for me! As someone who was certain that France would beat Brazil (another over hyped and over rated outfit) I wouldn't mind seeing them win.

I also pray that German be ousted but on different reasons.I never fancy a host nation to win the world cup.Being a Tanzanian, with some historical connections with Britain, I Wanted England to win it.England is undoutedly a great,but incomplete team. It has no great strikers.To win the world cup you need luck and great team with prolific goal scorers. Rooney is too young to depend on,and crouch is too slow to outsmart great defenders.Don't blame the coach, urge mothers to bring great strikers, and of course good other Shiltons!

Thomas, your points in order:
1. good advice, but its not practice its positivism thats required.
2. Fair play, you deserve it, but you need to get past Italy, and France first.
3. see later ;o)
4. you are forgetting that there was a 4th goal. we beat you fair and square. but you are probably right about England never winning another, given the hopelessness of the English FA: just take the Wembley farce as an example.

Hi Thomas and Flo, liked your thoughts there. People can go on and on about 1966 but that is actually just a showing of how pathetic the England squad really is.

All of those stars with all the fame and supposed skill can't gel together like the Germans.

I would be delighted if Germany wins the world cup a 4th time around, we need a european nation to keep the cup here and who better to do so than the best team in Europe ever.

@ Ramses

I agree with you about the number of games, but everybody is playing with the same ball and on the same pitch - that can't be an explanation for the underperformance of some of the players.

I don't understand. Why are people still talking about this "world cup" when everyone knows it finished last Saturday? Roll on the Men's Singles final this Sunday...

"probably slightly bitter"... slightly bitter?

Keep sucking the lemons Fletch. I don't care if the Germans or the French win. I just don't want either of the other two teams to win or even to get to the final (which would obviously mean one of them winning) as I think it would be a bit of a snooze-fest (not quite on the level of Switzerland vs Ukraine but getting there) while the other two have genuine rivalry and real, top quality currently playing at their best (or something approaching it).

I don't like Oliver Kahn either, but could you imagine how intensely even more irritating Ricardo would be if he were a World Cup winner?

Grrrr, the mere thought of it makes me mad!

@ Flo,

so you already played 7 finals, and you won 3. statistically, then, if you make it tonight (which I hope won't happen) you have more than 50% probability to lose again. Isn't it?

Andrew mate the Scots chances of doing well in Euro 08 are as likely as my country Wales winning it. Soz mate but its true, neither of our countries has the talent available to compete with these teams, just look at whose in the semi's in this tournament. Its gonna be a few years yet before our youth mature and become world Euro and world challengers. But ive gotta say i'd put my morgage on either of us giving England a thrashing

re madhu's post, two teams go through automatically out of the Euro 2008 groups (no playoffs). So the only way two of the top three teams won't go through is if somebody else in the group(Scotland, Lithuania, Georgia or the Faroes, ;-)) finishes in the top two. But it is an absurdly strong group. Even Scotland have shown signs of life over the last year.

My 5-year old can give you a few of his gold stars for your shirt if that would make you happy.
Come on, that's about as childish as "it's our turn to win"!
Good on the Germans for turning in enjoyable and inspiring performances so far after being written-off before they'd even started.
May the best team win tonight- personally I'll be wearing my "let's go, Krauts" T-shirt (yet another example of German humour- bought in Germany!)

Finally, a blog that sums up my point of view. I am a German, a regular visitor to England who has come to love the country and the people, but still it is always a pleasure to see England lose on penalties (preferably against us...). On the other hand, I would find it a bit frustrating if the English decided to support Germany openly and I tend to think that you would not take us as seriously anymore in the future when it comes to football. Remember: we are the penalty machine, the Krauts who always play unattractive football and win it! ;-).

Don't get me wrong, I like English football, I like the English people but I also like the banter that belongs to football. It would be a great progress if people came to like a country and respect its people and use football to live the remaining rivalry. Ohne Holland fahr'n wir nach Berlin...;-)

How pathetic.......

Your energies will be better spent devising ways to improve the England team sufficiently to get past the last eight in the next tournament never mind winning it.
That will take a whole lot more than exertions to achieve. Good luck though

Nice arcticle. I am German, but the reasons why you don't want Germany to win are funny and not hostile at all. So all the best from Bavaria.

PS: there were many Germans (like me and my sister) who wanted England to win in the penalty shoot-out against Portugal.

Of course I will cross my fingers for a good German perfomance tonight...

Thomas wrote:
"Go, practice some penalties. The 4th star is ours. England will never ever be Worldcup winner again (unless they cheat again on home soil)."

I can't belive there are still some idiots in my country and write like this!!!
Thomas I guess you are a teenager totally uneducated in football, just want to blabber with adults.

I don't think the english team (which I always like to see to win, besides our team) was too bad. They played very well for 120 minutes against Portugal. They also know how to play penalties very well, but with the british press (Sun, etc.) in the neck they are under pressure.

I'm absolutely sure, with a new Team-Manager we will see England in another final and maybe getting another star. Come on England!

Markus (Germany)

Thomas, you are right that Hurst's 2nd goal shouldn't have counted. The game should have finished 2-1 to England after 90 minutes as your equaliser was a blatant handball!

If tonight's game had been against any other team, I would have said that the Germans would have won.
But it's against the only team never to have lost a competitive game against Germany: Italy.
The gulf in class between the two sides is evident. The Germans' only hope is of playing for penalties.

To Markus

exactly: no polical correctness in football banter!
So you changed your way of playing? are you gonna attack tonight?
GOOODDDDD
So we have a chance to score one goal, close the catenaccio and let the match expire!!!!!
Honestly, I can't care less how Italy plays, I care only if it wins (and so does anybody else). I'd rather be commenting the match saying that Italy should play better next match instead of saying tha it was a good but last game....

Thomas, stop being silly.

England did not cheat. Who are you to claim they did when even Uwe Seeler (that's right, Uns Uwe, Germany's captain in 66) states that England deserved to win the cup?

Paul, you are right, old rivalries spice up the competition. Just don't take them to seriously.

And btw., I don't think your assumption that most Germans liked to see England get kicked out on penalties is right. Contrary to what you seem to believe there are many people here supporting England.

AS an Englishman working in Germany I am torn...
I have watched Germany play this world cup like I would have wanted England to play it, all heart all guts all attack.
In contrast Sven's master plan was to be Germany ( of old) and bore our way to the final... but for the fact that we seem unable to score Penalties he might have achieved his goal...

Anyway I like the way the germans are playing, but most Germans I know are already so cocky about German Football that I don't think I could stand listenening to them harp on about winning this World Cup for the next 8 Years ( lets not kidd ourselves, no european Team is likely to win the WC in South Africa... the climate suggests that on its own. )
I would hate for Portugal to win... I did not think they deserved their win over England at all.
I don't want the French to have a star more than us on their chests...
All that leaves is Italy..

So call me cheap ( and I probably am )... but I'll also say
FORZA ITALIA!!!
( please don't tell my wife, she's German ;)

Oh Ramses,

how typical! Complaining about the ball and the grass to distract from bad form or performances of other players. ;-)

I used the ball myself and I must say it is by far the best ball ever! To me the ball used in 1986 was number one up to now. Concerning the grass. Well, the FIFA decided that in all stadiums the grass has to be replaced by FIFA defined special mixture, coming from Holland btw. And it was also FIFA directive not to water the pitch five hours before the match.

@Francesco, you got it. I expect you to play Catenaccio anyway, so, to prevent this, I would be glad if we win 1:0 by an unjustified penalty early on (the foul preferably committed by Gattuso), using our home advantage and then seeing you waste chance after chance... ;-). Oh, you might also score a regular goal that is called off because of offside. Reading the Italian press on the next day would be great fun ;-).

(Just to make sure: I'm kidding. This is just football banter...)

@Thomas: That's just sooo dumb!

Superjim, in response to your 4th point about their being a 4th goal in the '66 Final - I'd just like to say that there were fans on the pitch so the game should have been stopped or the goal disallowed!

England have only made two semi finals and one final in World Cup history. Comparatively speaking, they are considerably worse than most teams especially Germany.

I was until the comment from Thomas willing to support Germany in the World Cup, but his very sad choice of words has just made me realize why nobody likes the Germans...

The 4th goal in 1966 should not have been allowed either, given that the referee should have stopped play when there were pitch invaders ("some people on the pitch"). I also doubt whether the German team would have left so few players in defence if the game had still been level.

;-)

Hey Andrew,

With your tin pot league you will never come close to the English ; in fact the gap is only likely to widen.
That said i would enjoy seeing Scotland reach Euro 2008 so that we can defeat you once again and shatter your dreams. :o)

Hey Thomas, good luck in the Semi's and hope you go on to win in the final. The French must be prevented from winning at all costs ! :o)

England had there best team since 1966 and they blew it, i was 100% sure that they wouldnt win the world cup. England are so big headed and they always blow it hahahaha. Italy have a really good chance tonight and i really hope they win and shut everyone up sayin they are not good enough, but if we are not good enough than how come we went further than the 'mighty england' hahaha england are just ****. Forza ITALIA!!!!

Italy v Portugal-final 2006

Warren (number 13), have you not realised that a European team is now guaranteed to hold the WC? All 4 Semi Finalists are European teams, which is great to see - so much for the South American flair!

But I agree, no more jealousy or spite, I'm now rooting for Germany. Why? Because, as mentioned above, as long as Kahn stays out of the team there are no more arrogant players in the German side anymore... having said that, as much as I like Klinsmann, I'll never forget the dig they had at us after winning Euro 96 and singing "Football's Coming 成人快手" with the trophy in the streets of Germany...

England had there best team since 1966 and they blew it, i was 100% sure that they wouldnt win the world cup. England are so big headed and they always blow it. Italy have a really good chance tonight and i really hope they win and prove to evryone, that they are good enough, but if we are not good enough than how come we went further than the 'mighty england' BYE BYE ENGLAND :) Forza ITALIA!!!!

Italy v Portugal-final 2006

England had there best team since 1966 and they blew it, i was 100% sure that they wouldnt win the world cup. England are so big headed and they always blow it.

Italy have a really good chance tonight and i think they can do it!! byebye england, better luck next time ;)

Forza Italia!!!

It鈥檚 simple really guys, the media whipped the (English) nation into a blinkered view that they only had to turn up to win. Well done the supporters you did a fantastic job and I do feel sorry for you. But please be positive - lets hope we get another 3 great games, we all deserve it. As will however wins next Sunday.
Oh, and I do know what I鈥檓 talking about - as a Scot I went through Argentina 78 - I think this is yours! From the media hype to the plannned victory parade.
As for Euro 08, Scotland need to get back into the world top 32 - we won鈥檛 make it, but a few good results might help us out. 5-1 against Bulgaria isn鈥檛 a bad start!

England had there best team since 1966 and they blew it, i was 100% sure that they wouldnt win the world cup. England are so big headed and they always blow it.

Italy have a really good chance tonight and i think they can do it!! byebye england, better luck next time ;)

Forza Italia!!!

England had there best team since 1966 and they blew it, i was 100% sure that they wouldnt win the world cup. England are so big headed and they always blow it.

Italy have a really good chance tonight and i think they can do it!! byebye england, better luck next time ;)

Forza Italia!!!

From the deapth of my heart one sound is raising up "ZIDANE, ZIDANE", since the begginnings of this event. Though I'm supporting England from the early first breath of my life.
I'm pretty sure Zidane will lift the this golden handycraft. My all best wishes with French.

re Andy Wilkinson, England have been put out of the last two tournaments by a country with a population not much greater than Scotland and with a similar standard of league to the SPL.

I don't think Thomas and Flo are right.

Flo, it is definately unimportant how many times you are in a final, just the win of the cup counts.

The cup in 1966 is history.

How many "stars" on a shirt is unimportant too.

Thomas your thoughts about the English team is not nice and very subjective. I support the English Team and the English League plays a very entertaining football. That's why Jens Lehmann plays there and soon Michael Ballack too.

And...we will be out today, 3:1 for the Italians.

I forgot the Wembley match....

by chance I saw a nice documentary yesterday about that match with interviews from Hurst, Seeler, H枚ttges, Tillkowski (goalie) the sons of the referee and the linesman and some English football historians.

Some English scientists examined the goal on and on and on and came to the conclusion the ball was NOT in, however some other german scientists say is was in for some miliseconds or something.

The son of the ref said that his father just never knew if it was in or not. The linesman's son said his fahter was sure it was in. So the conclusion is you are unable to decide goal or not. I prefer to obey to the refs judgement even it cameras reveal later it is the greatest bull****! And so the german players that time said, O.K. if the ref says it is a goal it is a goal, that deserves some respect. I don't like to know what Italian or Argentinians would have done.

About the forth goal: it was even more irregular! You are surprised? Well, when Hurst approached the german goal on the left side, you can clearly see people from the audience on the pitch before he gave the shot! Which the ref should have seen! Anyway it does not matter anymore, the games is over.

Apart from that, I have never seen the match as a whole, but from the footage I have seen - about 40 mins in total, I have to say England deserved to win, which is btw the opinion of most german players on the pitch, although they said the last THE goal was not in! The last goal was in the last minute anyway, so forget about that.

R.I.P. Wembley. Oh, when is the new stadium ready???

Well I have been an england supporter for a very long time. But at the end of every world cup, there is always a big "if" associated with the England team. What if Owen hadn't been sent off, what if Gerrard and Beckham hadn't been injured, what if Rooney hadn't been sent off ????? I am quite sick and tired of all this actually and feel that the 1994 World Cup had been my favourite world cup to date.

After reading the write up of Australia's world cup exit, all I can say is ....

Look who's crying now.

@francesco - guess what makes them think they have thier 4th is the same thing that made england think they ahd their 2nd?

In terms of the sentiment of this blog, well, maybe the parallels are there with the sentiment shown by some in the other "成人快手 Nations" that was lambasted by some in the media? Are we not happy that, as members of the EU it is a European winner guarunteed?

A German accusing the English of cheating! That's a bit rich. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. This current German side is full of cheaters, divers, wind-up merchants, time-wasters and injury feigners. When Germany were 2-0 up against a very poor Swedish team with 10 men, did we see a quality side close the game out by playing football? No, we saw all of the ugly and disgraceful aspects of the German side described above. Regarding the 1966 world cup final, any bitter Germans complaining about Geoff Hurst's second goal need to take a close look at Germaay's second goal that Weber scored, and you will soon realise why England deserved to win that game. I love Germany and its people but please get your own house in order before you make these quite ridiculous comments.

Now that reality has hit all of England its time to move on. England are out, but the World Cup has not ended. Tonight we have my favourites Italy going against the mighty hosts Germany. Like most others i did not expect Germany to do well but they have shown their strength and i applaud them, just like i applaud France for shutting up their critics. I dont however applaud Portugals progress. They did convinsingly beat England on penalties but the match was a total let down from both sides, even with the extra man Portugal could not capitalise, instead they took their striker off and put Ronaldo up front! Still i cant wait for France to hammer 4 past em and play Italy in the final

Its a bit rich of Thomas to accuse England of cheating in 1966 when Roger Hunt truly believed that the whole of the ball had gone over the line (which balanced out the incorrectly given free kick that lead to Germanys equaliser in the final minute) compared to Klinsmans blatant dive in 1990 which demeaned the "victory". Plus if Holland had played with a fraction more team spirit in 1970 (you know the tournament when Germany colluded with Austria to ensure they both qualified from the group stage) then that would have been another star less on the German shirt.

I don鈥檛 think there can be any serious debate about who is better (Germany or England) at World Cups, the results clearly speak for themselves.

I think for the English a desire to see Germany fail can be born out of a sense of frustration. I say this, since Germany seems to have an abundance of the qualities that England clearly lacks: strength of character, a sense of purpose, confidence, bravery etc. At this World Cup, Germany has played positive entertaining football, whereas England has stumbled precariously from match to match before finally, and inevitably, falling flat on its face. The situation is made all the more galling by the fact that England, at least at an individual level, has a better team, and I don鈥檛 think there can be any serious debate about that either.

Should Germany go all the way and win, I hope they are modest and magnanimous in victory and don鈥檛 undo the excellent public relations exercise that this World Cup has so far been for them.

Dear Paul,

yu ar so rigt. We Germans do zertainly prefer honest foes to false friends, too. At any time.

But apart from that, I hope you had a good time over here and also that you still have got left some nice stereotypes about us after your stay to keep you going!

Just in case: Should you change your mind during tonight, please feel free to shout for Germany, as we will need a lot of support tonight.

"Than the best team in Europe ever"? Warren, you are having a laugh, I hope. If not, check out the address of your nearest mental institution.

England remind me of Man City. They keep harping back to something the won in the 1960s and when they fail to ever do it again it's Man Utd's fault!

Its the German miracle again...were the Mannschaft and were evolving during a tournament...and we never loose in penalties :)

Im very happy to see "Euro 2006", the South Americans eliminated by the german team and our best friends, the French. To win the english hearts (if our warm welcome wasnt enough..I thought you like to party?), maybe I should be looking forward to a final "Germany-Portugal", but I would love to see a brother-duel.

So come on! One of our most famous songs (which is played at my inn everytime were scoring) is "footballs coming home"! Ok, we focus more on "footballs coming home" than on "three lions on a shirt", but were singing it nonetheless. Ok, we won this song in 1996, but its still an english song! Come to our side and sing with us when were going to play against Portugal (revenge!) or France (盲h..ok, its France, you dont need any more reasons ;)...should be fun! I would like to meet you!

See you in 2008!

I have to be honest, England are sore losers. Who doesn't think England deserve to go further in the World Cup? Most of us watch the EPL, we know the players, we know the clubs they play for but the team didn't play as a team. One of the obvious problem was Sven; the most disappointing aspect was that the England team is full of known players: Lampard, Gerrad, Rooney, Terry all playing big teams everyone knows. This reflects Brazil and having a big team doesn't necessarily mean you will be successful. France beeat Brazil again, England can't beat Sweden their omen. On paper, the German side are weaker based on the inidividual players but when you play with passion and as a team, who cares if you don't have a Kaka or not. I have supported Germany for 6 years now and like anyone else who supports a team, you support them rain, hail or shine.

Am not one of the skeptics but let me tell you sth you鈥檒l be very fascinated to read.

What World Cup and history have proved:

* The WC has since 1960 alternated between Europe and South America all the time and it proved right. A European team will win it this time.

* Spain still cannot beat France; I told my friends repeatedly Spain is a good side but can鈥檛 muster any chance of winning

* England still cannot beat Sweden. A few seconds left, it had to end all square and it did.

* France made it 3 consecutive wins over Brazil. 1986 QF, 1998 F and 2006 QF and France has never lost a World Cup QF. Proved right!

* Once again for the 3rd running WC, a Manchester United Player is responsible for England going out: Beckham in 1998, Paul Scholes giving away a free kick in 2002...Ronaldinho wonder goal and this time, Shrek has done with a well deserved red card. BTW, did I not mention Philip Neville giving away a last gasp penalty in Euro2000 vs Romania?

*Germany have never beaten Italy in the World Cup or in any competitive game. WC Record for Germany vs Italy : 2 draws, 2 defeats last time in the 1982 Final when Italy won 3-1.

Here鈥檚 a very interesting fact鈥ure many skeptics have found it out:

1970: Italy lose 4-1 to brazil in WC Final. (L)

12 yrs later鈥� 1982 and Italy win 3-1 over Germany (W)

12 yrs later鈥�. 1994 and Italy lose to Brazil in the final (L)

12 yrs later鈥� u well calculated it, it鈥檚 2006 and Italy logically should reach the final and WIN!!!

* Germany has by the way a miserable record against both Italy and France. Why should they win it? The facts are here.

滨苍迟别谤别蝉迟颈苍驳鈥�

I have to be honest, England are sore losers. Who doesn't think England deserve to go further in the World Cup? Most of us watch the EPL, we know the players, we know the clubs they play for but the team didn't play as a team. One of the obvious problem was Sven; the most disappointing aspect was that the England team is full of known players: Lampard, Gerrad, Rooney, Terry all playing big teams everyone knows. This reflects Brazil and having a big team doesn't necessarily mean you will be successful. France beeat Brazil again, England can't beat Sweden their omen. On paper, the German side are weaker based on the inidividual players but when you play with passion and as a team, who cares if you don't have a Kaka or not. I have supported Germany for 6 years now and like anyone else who supports a team, you support them rain, hail or shine.

Thomas is being a trifle snide. Of course, England's World Cup record is nowhere near as good as Germany's. That is obvious. But cheating in 1966! How does he work that one oot? i didnt see any English player diving or trying to get an opponent sent off. Like Germany did to try to get the ref to send off Sweden's Lucic. One german player even patted the ref on the back after the red card had been issued, which was dosgraceful behaviour.

Thomas should be thanking the English, well one Englshman anyway. I well remember the pathetic decsison of Englsh referee Jack Taylor to give Germany a penalty in the 1974 final when Holzenbein dived. That decision deprived a brilliant, superior Dutch team of the WC triumph their football had deserved, and I have not seen Thomas going on about Hozelbein's cheating.

I have a high regard for Klinsmann and the sort of football his team are playing. I really don't mind at all if they win the WC. But they do not have superior players to England and other countries. Far from it. Mios of the current team are unexceptional, but they play well as a unit. What they do have is that German winning menatality - that mental toughness which wins things against the odds. England had a team equal to theirs in 1990 and a better team than theirs in 1996. But the result was the same. England bottled the pens; Germany stayed mentally strong and won. Credit to them for that. But that mental toughness has a downside. It can easily become the sort of arrogance which Thomas may be displaying, and which was displayed bny Moeller at wembely in 1996. That is why Germans have not always been the most popular people. Klinsmann and his team, plus the German people as excellent hosts, have gone a long way towards dispelling that image this summer, so it would be wise of Thomas not to try to go back to old German attitudes.

England are not out of the World Cup due to any individual refereeing decision. Could the the four previous lacklustre performances also be explained due the "traditional" English excuse?

England are out because they are simply not good enough. Far from being a "golden generation" this was a mediocre bunch of players who were overhyped by a self serving media. Far from 1966 (or even 1990), this was a team comparable with the Graham Taylor era - vastly over reliant on one talented but erratic individual with a load of journeyman triers alongside.

Very simply, England's passing and movement were abysmal. Much of the problem focuses on Gerrard and Lampard who are fine for a league such as the Premiership where the midfield is like a ping-pong contest and defending generally poor. However at top international level the passing has to be so much better, the movement more thoughtful and dynamic.

In contrast England were pedestrian and lacked basic technique, normally resorting to hoofed balls forward. Similarly, one up front isnt the problem - watch how France play with a lone Henry using intelligent movement from Ribery and Maladou and accurate balls from Zidane. Ask yourself the question as to why Arsene Wenger hardly ever signs English players.

Until British football gets away from its obsession with power and pace and starts to get in line with the rest of the world in passing, movement and imagination, its difficult to see any of the home nations achieving anything.

As to Germany, a victory for them would vindicate the Bundesliga where admission prices are cheap and players wages not at the lunatic levels elsewhere. There are also high levels of fan democracy in the running of clubs. Ironically, the only club in financial trouble there is Borussia Dortmund who had adopted the "English" ownership model.

It would be nice to think that a German victory would herald a better deal for fans in this country instead of the exploitative nature of British football. That it might (allied with England's inadequacies) promote a debate about the nature of organisation of the English/British game and its division of income and resources. After all, "milk it dry of every penny" is not a philosopphy likely to encourage the long term health of the game. Sadly, I'm not holding my breath, as the new season will surely see even more hype surround what have proved to be a bunch of overpaid mediocre players.

Thomas is being somewhat unfair. Of course, England's World Cup record is nowhere near as good as Germany's. That is obvious. But cheating in 1966! How does he work that one oot? i didnt see any English player diving or trying to get an opponent sent off. Like Germany did last week when they tried successfully to influence the ref to send off Sweden's Lucic. One german player even patted the ref on the back after the red card had been issued, which was dosgraceful behaviour.

Thomas should be thanking the English - well one Englshman anyway. I well remember the awful decision of Englsh referee Jack Taylor to give Germany a penalty in the 1974 final when Holzenbein dived. That decision deprived a brilliant, superior Dutch team of the WC triumph their football had deserved, and I have not seen Thomas going on about Hozelbein's cheating.

I have a high regard for Klinsmann and the sort of football his team are playing. I really don't mind at all if they win the WC. But they do not have superior players to England and other countries. Far from it. Mios of the current team are unexceptional, but they play well as a unit. What they do have is that German winning menatality - that mental toughness which wins things against the odds. England had a team equal to theirs in 1990 and a better team than theirs in 1996. But the result was the same. England bottled the pens; Germany stayed mentally strong and won. Credit to them for that. But that mental toughness has a downside. It can easily become the sort of arrogance which Thomas may be displaying, and which was displayed by Moeller at Wembley in 1996. That is why Germans have not always been the most popular people. Klinsmann and his team, plus the German people as excellent hosts, have gone a long way towards dispelling that image this summer, so it would be wise of Thomas not to try to go back to old German attitudes.

Torsten (61), that is infuriating! My support for Germany is now hanging by a thread! Exactly HOW is Germany the home of football??? It's exactly that kind of arrogance that made the 5-1 thrashing so sweet.

I had practically all but buried my bad feelings towards the German team (see my post number 41) but if you win the WC, PLEEEEASE do not start singing our sacred Baddiel&Skinner anthem, it will only fire bad feeling again when recently you had deservedly won so much of our support.

I'm just about still supporting the Germans but now I'm one mixed up cookie!!

Guys, you have to pay the Germans more respect...Paul's entry is so pathetic! They played well in every game in the world cup and their strikers together have scored 8 goals - compare that to the English performances and you see easily that they could never have won it.

Lets be fair. For a team who prides to come from the best league in the world, who invented the game, and banged on about 1966 and how this time they had the best team, and best chance, England were very poor.

They deserved to be knocked out in the group stages for mere boredom of play. If they had been in nearly any other group they would not got as far as they did.

Lets not be so prideful, and lets start admiting when they were woeful.

Don;t get me wrong, there are plenty of near world class players, but the politics involved takes over.

Lampard should have been dropped, Beckham shouldn't be captain or in the team. Owen and Rooney (because they are big names) were practically forced to go injured, when they could have taken some inform players.

I wouldn't be surprised if the FA were given millions just for commercial reasons and having Beckham there.

Interesting - but completely irrelevant! - point about the gold stars... Of course, Uruguay have two gold stars. Hope that helps.

Come on Portugal. They are diving, cheating, cynical gits. But they are also skilful, free-flowing, spontaneous and powerful. (Ronaldo to score the winner, please. Now that would be very very funny).

There is no doubt that the German league lack of stars and appeal. I remember that the only Italian who decided to play in Germany was Ruggiero Rizzitelli when he was almost 65鈥e actually scored the decisive goal of the tournament鈥hat an achievement!!!

The German squad is just a group of average players who could win against Poland at the very last second and drag themselves to the penalties against Argentina. Why is everybody saying that Germany are playing good football?

FORZA MATERAZZI!

Good luck to Germany - though I hope the French win it now we(England) have gone out...

Talking of the England loss - I put it down to something that we all accuse the Germans off - arrogance. The Germans were modest about their chances, whereas to listen to English fans, the Cup was won before we set off. Too often we expect to win games because of who we are, when the Germans and French and Italians win them because they prepare and have the mental strength to carry on and win. Peter Crouch blames the penalty misses on 'exhaustion' - how come Owen Hargreaves (arguably the hardest worker on the pitch) was able to net his??? Could it be some of the German work ethic and commitment has rubbed off on him?

post8 andrew..I see a bright future for scotland, narrow the gap in ranking etc...ahahahahahahahh! you've really cheered me up today, i'm going to waltz out the door with a happy heart now in the sure knowledge that humour is not dead!

I never thought that I'd say this, but I think I want France to win the World Cup. Alright a few of their players are over the hill, but it's a team laced with a genuine bit of magic and some real talent and I'd much rather a team with a bit of fantasy win the World Cup than another load of well drilled, energetic work-horses.

This is nothing personal against Germany because I've got a lot of respect for them, and I'm completely convinced that if this current England squad had had German style organisation and mental strength to go with the undoubted talent, we'd have been nailed on to win the World Cup - instead of a load of players inhibited to perform as they really can and quivering wrecks under the pressure of another penalty shoot-out.

I'm also of the opinion that a World Cup triumph secured on home soil is only about 60 or 70% of the achievement of winning the thing on foreign/neutral turf. Yes I know that negates '66 and all that' for England too, but I'm firmly of that opinion. Therefore I want a team other than the host nation to win this cup for that reason too.

First of all, you shouldnt write your team off. The game against Portugal was very impressive and if they are able to reproduce such gameplay consistently in a big tournament then everything becomes possible. After all England had with just 10 men more and clearer chances than Portugal with 11.

And will we be able to win against Italy? Its not impossible. But I really doubt than anyone will see us ousted in penalties. ;)

One last thought. In my opinion its useless to debate which team is better. Thats decided on the field and may change from day to day. So why not just enjoy it?

As a German, I will of course support my nation. However, I am not as certain as some other people that they will win it....
In my opinion they do not have the quality players other nations possess. As for Enland, I am sad to say that I don't think they will ever win a major title again, for one reason: Throughout a tournamnet (nowadays) you will encounter opponents that are very difficult to beat, in other words it will come to penatlies. And if it comes to penalties England always appears to be a little bit edgy and nervous (this is very remarkable since Engalnd had, in my opinion, the best squad since 1966 and the best euorpean team, so they should have been much more calm). Somehow I think the English players cannot deal with the pressure of penalties (just remember the bodylanguage of Steven Gerrard, he did not look confident at all)...
Please excuse any grammer and/or spelling mistakes(my english got pretty rusty over the years)!!!!

As a German, I will of course support my nation. However, I am not as certain as some other people that they will win it....
In my opinion they do not have the quality players other nations possess. As for Enland, I am sad to say that I don't think they will ever win a major title again, for one reason: Throughout a tournamnet (nowadays) you will encounter opponents that are very difficult to beat, in other words it will come to penatlies. And if it comes to penalties England always appears to be a little bit edgy and nervous (this is very remarkable since Engalnd had, in my opinion, the best squad since 1966 and the best euorpean team, so they should have been much more calm). Somehow I think the English players cannot deal with the pressure of penalties (just remember the bodylanguage of Steven Gerrard, he did not look confident at all)...
Please excuse any grammer and/or spelling mistakes(my english got pretty rusty over the years)!!!!

hi there,
in the last few days i have been regularly bought newpapers and i think it is amazing how you blame to have been kicked out from the world cup by c ronaldo..rooney played for how long? 62"??he was never dangerous n he didnt do much and even though i think ronaldo should have been involved he has no decisional power so blame the referee!!england would have lost anyway u missed 3 penalties we cant blame no1 else

Why would you 'truly depise' Oliver Kahn? He is a consumate professional and achieved the almost impossible in 2002 - a goalkeeper, yes goalkeeper, winning the 'official' player of the tournament.

Yes, he can display a certain arrogance, but I'd say that has been an essential component which has led him to be the best in the world four years ago.

Seriously, what on earth leads you to 'truly despise' someone you have probably never met? It's a strong word, and surely football is not about that. Remember, the FIFA anti-racism messages before the games? Come on, if we want to clean up football, then we shouldn't be hearing this from ANYONE, let alone a 成人快手 blogger for goodness sake? Please apologise...

hi there,
in the last few days i have been regularly bought newpapers and i think it is amazing how you blame to have been kicked out from the world cup by c ronaldo..rooney played for how long? 62"??he was never dangerous n he didnt do much and even though i think ronaldo should have been involved he has no decisional power so blame the referee!!england would have lost anyway u missed 3 penalties we cant blame no1 else

hi there,
in the last few days i have been regularly bought newpapers and i think it is amazing how you blame to have been kicked out from the world cup by c ronaldo..rooney played for how long? 62"??he was never dangerous n he didnt do much and even though i think ronaldo should have been involved he has no decisional power so blame the referee!!england would have lost anyway u missed 3 penalties we cant blame no1 else

I think both the Argentinian ref and Blatter must think we are all stupid.

It is blindingly obvious that there was no intention to send Rooney off straight after the incident until Ronaldo put his spoke in. You can clearly see the ref run over and stand pointing for the free kick. He did not reach for a card (in his usual flashy and pompous manner) until Rooney gave Ronaldo a shove to tell him to leave the ref to make his own decisions.

Blatter is, as usual, not happy until England are out. However, he could at least do the decent thing and keep his mouth shut as opposed to insulting us with his support for the referee.

As for Fifa investigating Rooney, it is the actions of the likes of Ronaldo that is ruining the beautiful game. It is Blatter's job to do something about it but it is evident that this will never happen while he is in charge.

hahah england u ll be luckier in 4 years time maybe...u will never be strong enough111111111111

I would'nt say that England won't ever become worldcup winners again. They have great players but what it lacks is teamplay. Their games were awful to watch and people are fully aware of that. However, I was really glad to see how enthusiastic people were and I am sure they will be again in four years time. That is plenty of time for England to get started again.

I believe Germany will win the cup. They are the only team that have performed well persistently. We deserve the 4th star. In any event, it is only a game!

the one thing I don't understand is why people, especially the English, always go on about other nations being cheaters, divers, corrupt and playing negative football.

The truth is all of the above attributes can easily be found in the England too, see the likes of Alan Shearer and in fact to win a tournament you need a combination of so many factors...

So what I would say to the English crowd reading is:

1) your players are far too overrated and over-paid for what they are really worth

2) critisise others (especially more successful teams)when you are in a position too...e.g. after you have added at least 2-3 more stars on your shirt (which in my opinion will never happen again unless you cheat your way on home soil like in 1966)

3) learn the tricks of the profession rather than just sitting in defeat and accuse the Portugese of playing dirty/negative football (the truth is the portugese are currently better at football than the English and they have showed it not once but twice in 2 years) - the Hand of God didn't make the tournament more ugly in 86 it added spice to it

England has the best players in the world?? Haha...thats pretty steep. Rooney and Terry/Ferdinand but thats it.

Deutschland! Deutschland!

As you can see I support the German team and this for good reason! I am actually glad the English team lost against Portugal. I don't understand this fuss about Ronaldo and Rooney. Please explain: how could have Ronaldo convince the referee to show Rooney the red card? - I mean it was obvious that Rooney kicked the Portuguese quite hard in his private parts, wasn't it? And Rooney wanted to kick him (and did not slip or whatever)! And sure, Ronaldo was happy that Rooney was sent off. If it had been the other way round Rooney had been the smiling one! Now Ronaldo is partially blamed for England loosing the game. How childish ...!

Please, show some symathy for the Germans! The hostility that English show towards the Germans is really obsolete, inappropriate and embarrassing. Leave all this shit behind most English bear in their mind when thinking about Germany. Yes, they are nice and frank! They are wonderfull hosts and deserve to win.

I find myself in a very awkward situation - I have close colleagues who are Portuguese, French, German and Italian. Each one will be unbearably smug if they win so I can't favour any of the teams left in it. Can't we just rerun all the quarter finals?

the one thing I don't understand is why people, especially the English, always go on about other nations being cheaters, divers, corrupt and playing negative football.

The truth is all of the above attributes can easily be found in the England too, see the likes of Alan Shearer and in fact to win a tournament you need a combination of so many factors...

So what I would say to the English crowd reading is:

1) your players are far too overrated and over-paid for what they are really worth

2) critisise others (especially more successful teams)when you are in a position too...e.g. after you have added at least 2-3 more stars on your shirt (which in my opinion will never happen again unless you cheat your way on home soil like in 1966)

3) learn the tricks of the profession rather than just sitting in defeat and accuse the Portugese of playing dirty/negative football (the truth is the portugese are currently better at football than the English and they have showed it not once but twice in 2 years) - the Hand of God didn't make the tournament more ugly in 86 it added spice to it

Let me mention two things about two probably overhyped issues:

1966: 1966 really has been a drama for Germany, because all hope, all desires got lost within an in total great, but from our perspective lost footballmatch. And it was really an issue to that time, while it became during the years (say 3 generations of football enthusiasts) more and more a running joke: "Ah by the way: 66, the Englisch, stolen goal, end of the world etc..." But you will hardly find anybody, who has ever seen that goal, nor somebody who really still cares about. So just take it as comment as we take it being krauts: In doubt as a joke.

Andi M枚ller: I remember that game very well, and I must ask you to forgive him. AM has been the most sensitive German football-pro ever. He was even called by some evil minded pundits the first girl in the bundesliga. At that day he was under so much pressure, being personally 'boo-ed' by the Englisch supporters during the whole game, that he has just been extremely relieved after a) scoring, b) having been him to win the match.
At the end a not very sportive, but considering the background, understandable gesture.

The defeat against Portugal is still fresh in every English fan's mind and probably will be until 2008. However, we must not forget that the Portuguese team is world class and they have the results to prove this. Twice semi-finalists and once runners-up in the last 4 major tournaments. Unbeaten in 2 years (WC qualifiers and 17 competitive games) gives them a better 2 year record than any of the other semi finalists. Taking all this into consideration, they are not out of place in the last four and would be worthy champs. Those who blame them for England's exit have little knowledge of football. We all know that the coach was the biggest culprit.

Everyone is talking about the ``big players`` Rhonaldino beckham rooney etc remember a champion team always beats a team of champions and that was illustrated when France beat brazil...
France will win this world cup against Italy 2-0 because they have a champion team and if henry starts firing watch out it could be 4-0 German and Italian football both a reputation of being defensive not entertaining defensive let,s get the cup back to the brazilians of Europe FRANCE ALLEZ LES BLEUS>>>>>>>>>

Italy will win the game against Germany. Germany:Italy=1:2. I think it wont go to penalties.

I tell you what I would like to see tonight: 1-0 for Italy and the German players unsuccessfully trying to dive in Italy's penalty box in the last minutes.

I'm English i'm gutted that we've been eliminated but i truly hope now that Germany and Michael Ballck in particular lift the world cup on Sunday. My second favourite team is FC Bayern Munchen and i've always had an affinity with the Germans ever since Bayern were robbed in the 1999 champions league final against Manchester United. At least Bayern and the great Stefan Effenberg gained revenge in 2001!!

I say good luck to the Germans on Sunday!!

I just wish we had supermann ( i mean Jens Lehmann!) in goals for England.

So Rooney did nothing wrong and was badly treated, the fault really lies with Ronaldo, who got him sent off and deprived England of the World Cup they deserved and would most surely have won. Get real!! Which competition were these people watching? Bad selection policy and poor performance made winning the competition an fantasy dreamt up by Eriksson and the media.
Also should Shearer and Nigel Martyn be charged with incitement to violence and bringing the game into disrepute?

They are numerous victories ahead of you because they are an actual world power in football. Not a bunch of continually over-hyped also-rans.

Is this blog really the place for you to be outlining your own personal bias?

Thomas is being somewhat unfair. Of course, England's World Cup record is nowhere near as good as Germany's. That is obvious. But cheating in 1966! How does he work that one out? I didn't see any English player diving or trying to get an opponent sent off. Like Germany did last week when they tried successfully to influence the ref to send off Sweden's Lucic. One german player even patted the ref on the back after the red card had been issued, which was dosgraceful behaviour.

Thomas should be thanking the English - well one Englshman anyway. I well remember the awful decision of Englsh referee Jack Taylor to give Germany a penalty in the 1974 final when Holzenbein dived. That decision deprived a brilliant, superior Dutch team of the WC triumph their football had deserved, and I have not seen Thomas going on about Hozelbein's cheating.

I have a high regard for Klinsmann and the sort of football his team are playing. I really don't mind at all if they win the WC. But they do not have superior players to England and other countries. Far from it. Mios of the current team are unexceptional, but they play well as a unit. What they do have is that German winning menatality - that mental toughness which wins things against the odds. England had a team equal to theirs in 1990 and a better team than theirs in 1996. But the result was the same. England bottled the pens; Germany stayed mentally strong and won. Credit to them for that. But that mental toughness has a downside. It can easily become the sort of arrogance which Thomas may be displaying, and which was displayed by Moeller at Wembley in 1996. That is why Germans have not always been the most popular people. Klinsmann and his team, plus the German people as excellent hosts, have gone a long way towards dispelling that image this summer, so it would be wise of Thomas not to try to go back to old German attitudes.

I like Paul's artikel. It's nice to traditionally dislike certain teams without any further hostility. That's what makes the true football fan.

why do germany win the every game and nobody say anything abut it.

Nothing like an Englishman flapping on about 1966 to bring a wry smile to the rest of Europe.

I'll definitely be supporting the host nation to lift the cup. I too was won over by the warmth and good spirited nature the locals displayed during my brief stay in Berlin. But that's not why I'll be cheering them on. They've consistently been the most pleasing to watch throughout the finals, and showed the commitment and style so lacking in all of England's performances. Is it any wonder that England's best player in their most enjoyable (to watch) game earns his crust in Germany. The supposedly superior premiership supplied us with a series of dull and uninspired performances from England who were lucky to make it as far as the last eight.

I'm with Thomas on this one.
Germany have earned their stars over the years. and earned the bragging rights to go with them.

Personally I want Germany to win the wolrd cup. I know, it's amazing to think that. I couldn't believe myself when I shouted "yes" when Germany equalized against the Argies. But the point of the fact is, most English hate Argentina far more than any dislike for Germany anymore mainly due to the cheating south American/latin European way of playing football. The diving, the shirt pulling, the faining injury and all the other dirty tricks they use to win with no conscience issues. So, in short. Thanks Germany for a well hosted competition and also playing a much cleaner game than you used to.
I look at who's left in the WC and the Germans are the only non cheating* side left in the WC so it has to be them.
* Relatively speaking of course, all sides cheat a little whether it's going to ground a litle easy or slight shirt pull.

To be frank, I think most of the 'skillful' teams are out of the World Cup. I consider myself European but the sight of Italy scoring one goal against the Ukraine and then camping in their own half sort of fits their stereotype really; attack once then spend the rest of the game in retreat.

The Germans have, once again, come good in a tournament and whilst they've not been the best out there, have sent the Argentinians home which I thought would be beyond any team in this WC. I cannot bring myself to cheer them on though; the sight of Ballack, a man that I think would lick himself if he were Ice Cream, lifting the World Cup induces a strange guttural moan from somewhere deep within my soul.

No, I am now sure having Zinedine Zidane starting to come good has put my faith into skill and team work so it is going to have to be the French for me from now on and I must admit, it would be good, thanks Tomas, to see the Germans there getting the hiding.

Still sick to my eye tooth about England giving up again鈥�

Being half German and English has posed many a problem as a football supporter, particularly as i would, at a shove, prefer Germany rather than England despite living in England, which led to about six months of banter back in 2001.

And while disappointed at England's refusal to play with any heart until down to ten men. The player's idiocy in lumping the ball up to Rooney, horribly undermined by the manager in a position as a lone striker, despite its repeated failure meant there was little despair when they finally so weakly succumbed. It was the only likely outcome. Though not since the 2005 FA cup final (and I am a Arsenal fan) has any team less deserved a penalty shootout win than Portugal who played with distinct lack of imagination or flair against 10 men for an hour.

Naturally I would now like to see Germany go on to win it. Particularly as, for the first time in a major tournament since I have supported them, they are a pleasure to watch with their attacking style.

However, France with Zidane has played some scintilating football and Italy have looked very solid without being overly defensive, and Germany's record against the latter is far from convincing. So the world cup is far from over and arrogance from the like of Thomas is merely asking for trouble- the linesman's decision hardly implies cheating by either team. A word thrown about with little caution throughout this world cup when, with a few notable exceptions, the diving has not been exceptionately worse than that observed in the premiership imho.

But I still think Germany have a good chance and will be cheering them all the way, though even if the only outcome was the relaxing of the english stereotype of Germans, and them playing good football, this will have been an excellent tournament, and incidentally, Klinsmann for England? Please

I'm backing the Portuguese to win. Blaming them for England's exit is laughable.
All educated football fans know very well that England have only themselves and a Swede to blame. The Portuguese have been the best performers in the last two years out of all the semi finalists. They have been twice semi finalists and once runners up in the last four major tournaments. Unbeaten in WC qualifiers (leading scorers in qualifiers too)and unbeaten in seventeen competitive games we can't dispute that this team is world class. Portugal would be worthy champs!

I really do not understand the negative sentiment towards the fate of the German team. I say, show some humility and not least some respect for a better team. They are playing on home soil and, for getting this far at least, they deserve to win the thing! A Germany-France final would be like a dream! Italy-Portugal, in my opinion, would make for a rediculous display of poor acting.

Hmm, you know if you replace the words "Germany" with "Scotland" in this piece, you'd be shot down in flames, just like Andy Murray was, like Jack McConnel was, etc, etc. Whats good for the goose isn't good for the gander, eh? And you wonder why us Scots get a bit miffed with double standards from 成人快手 Sport and the Media...

about todays match: if the german spieler will loose against the italians, we will send them to a nun麓s school outside of heidelberg, where they will teach the young girls home economics. for men of honour like them, the shame will be un - BEAR - able!!!!
(i hope you still remember old blackadder?)
greetz from bremen, germany

Ramses, what you said means that in every WC or EC the world class players have to underperforme. I think this isn't right. And the funny fields are not german, they are dutch and the groundsmen worked to the rules of FIFA. I wish good luck to erveryone who deserves to win. And this includes Germany.

While the "stars" are underperforming in this World Cup, it is team effort that is showing in the end. England started to play like a team with a heart only after Rooney was sent off. You need a team, not a selection of "stars". As to Portugal, I think they clearly deserved to win against Holland. It is more difficult to say with England, because the English side gets large credit for managing well with 10 men. But you can't say anything or anyone prevented England from scoring the penalties except for Ricardo and the English strikers themselves.
Portugal seems to me have a heart for staging a good battle against France.

already reaching the semi-final is a sucess. Whatever comes on top is great. And now the german team is playing football unless 2002 where Germany played very poor, however reached the final somehow.

I think Klose is underestimated, he could play in any league. Reason he is not in Italy yet might be the domestic trouble in Italy :-)

I can't believe the comments made by both the english press and the english fans. Rooney deserved to be sent off. It was not Ronaldo's fault! If you look at the images again, you will notice that as soon as Rooney puts his foot on Ricardo Carvalho, the referee holds Rooney's shirt in order to stop him to continue doing that.
As for Carragher's penalty the referee did not blow the whistle so that is why Ricardo did not move! Jamie was so nervous that he desperately wanted to kick the ball!
As Mourinho once said, the English has to start asking to themselves why they are not capable of winning tournaments! Right now, England are not better than Portugal or the Czech Rep. or Holland! And none of them are favourites at the international level

It appears that all major German newspapers have already decleared victory, trashing Italy in all possible ways. Could be true, since the German team is more compact, organized and disciplined than the Italian counterpart. But what will it happen if Italy wins? Any suggestion anyone?

Forza ragazzi, facciamogliela vedere!
Germans, before thinking on which is the best way to lift the cup, you have to win the match.
Like Trapattoni once said:" mai dire gatto se non ce 'hai nel sacco" (never say cat if you don't have it in the bag already)

I'm English & like the rest of our fans am gutted we lost, that said we didn't play well in the whole tournament 鈥� did we really deserve to be in the semi finals? Would we have beaten France (I鈥檇 like to think so!)

Who to support? I honestly hope the Germans win; they've put on a brilliant World Cup and played some excellent football. Unlike our team they didn't just turn up thinking they'd win it just because (apparently) they have 'world class' players. Unlike England they move on, remember when we beat Germany 5-1? What have we done since then compared to Germany? They鈥檝e been to a WC final and are the semis of yet another.

Stuff McClaren, we should be after a German manager! We鈥檇 do a lot better! And maybe get some German builders in to sort out the farce that is Wembley.

It appears that all major German newspapers have already declared victory, trashing Italy in all possible ways. Could be true, since the German team is more compact, organized and disciplined than the Italian counterpart. But what will it happen if Italy wins? Any suggestion anyone?

To my German compats: Thomas, get over that Goal in 66! That is really bad sportsmanship. We should finally accept and forget it once and for all.

To Flo: sure, we have an impressive WC record. But I hardly remember any German team getting so much praise for their style of playing attacking football like this one (actually I think only the 72 European cup generation had a smilar approach, but I just saw a few replays of their matches). 82 and 86 have been nightmares of lousy football, establishing the image of boring but effective play. Good these days are over. Hopefully they will never come back.

4th star or not, after following the great articles and comments on these blogs for several weeks, we already can say that Germany is a big winner.

Thank you to the authors, and thank you for the great posts from England fans returning home. This is already our "first cup". The 2nd one would make it perfect, no doubt.

To Thomas: the Wembley Goal was a Goal because the linesman and referee decide it was a Goal. We didn't cheat. Yawn! Get over it will you!

I'm also hoping that Germany fall short but there would be one beautiful aspect because I'm convinced there is somebody who definitely doesn't want them to win. Kahn will hate it when Lehmann is parading with the trophy :-)

It appears that all major German newspapers have already declared victory, trashing Italy in all possible ways. It might be so, since the German team is more compact, organized and disciplined than the Italian counterpart. But what will (or should) happen if Italy wins? Any suggestion anyone?

I am surprised by the fact that people still insist that the England team was the best one since 66, it clearly was not! Too many people confound having good players with having a good team. I would agree with most people that England had more individual talent in their team than Germany, but football is not about having loads of individually talented players on the pitch but about having a team playing efficiently. The managers of two big footballing nations did not understand this and their teams -England and Brazil - went home early.
If England get a manager who is less impressed by names and has a clear idea about how the team should play England will be more succesful, unfortunately I doubt that McLaren is the right person for this job.

Yeah...I don't think he wants to play in the second division of Italy ;-)

Bring on anyone.
Germany will beat them. Maybe they wouldn't, if they were not the hosts but they are. And historically they win world cups at home....

Germany : Italy ==> 3:1

i believe the germans deserve to win it as the have been efficient as always. they dont always play well but always play as a team. England have one of best teams in the world but the tactics and positions were all wrong
Finally sco on the germans

I am surprised by the fact that people still insist that the England team was the best one since 66, it clearly was not! Too many people confound having good players with having a good team. I would agree with most people that England had more individual talent in their team than Germany, but football is not about having loads of individually talented players on the pitch but about having a team playing efficiently. The managers of two big footballing nations did not understand this and their teams -England and Brazil - went home early.
If England get a manager who is less impressed by names and has a clear idea about how the team should play England will be more succesful, unfortunately I doubt that McLaren is the right person for this job.

@superjim

and you are forgetting that the 4th goal was also illegal.Two photos prove that 3 fans ran onto the pitch only seconds before that goal had been scored.
Overall you won on to illegal goals in 1966.These two goals helped you to avoid what?PENALTIES!And on what do you normally go out?PENALTIES!And against which team?THE GERMANS.

Generally the problems of the english team is that you have highly skilled players in your team but they always forget how to play the game as a team.When it counts England fails.
Well....at least your Queen is save!!!

As a European living in the USA, I am glad that the trophy will end up in Europe. I would love to see Germany win it as they have been great hosts and it was great to see the German flags everwhere. England had a good squad for the World Cup but were coached by a real chancer.

I am an English female and my boyfriend is German but lives with me in the UK.

We both watched the game on Saturday in a bar whilst on holiday in France and my boyfriend was genuinely upset when England lost (unlike the young French lads on the next table who proceeded to jeer at us for about 20 minutes!)

So, England may be out but if my German boyfriend was happy enough to wave an England flag on Saturday then I'm definately going to be waving my Germany flag tonight!

GO GERMANY!

Rather them than France anyway :-)

As a European living in the USA, I am glad that the trophy will end up in Europe. I would love to see Germany win it as they have been great hosts and it was great to see the German flags everwhere. England had a good squad for the World Cup but were coached by a real chancer.

I like the Germans and hope that they will win the WC. All these "world-class" players like Ronaldo,Ronaldinho,beckham,... play very very bad and the unknown german players know how to fight and play good football. it's always the same.
Also the WOrld Cup in Germany is very good organisated ,the people are nice and friendly.
GERMANY!

O.K. lets be honest about this, England (and other nations who play similar football) are never going to win a World Cup again as long as the referees are so bad. It's ok making a mistake or two but when most of the opposition throw themselves to the ground at the slightest touch and the ref supports them (with red and yellow cards) then we might as well give up.
Take Rooney for instance, he fights to keep the ball and gets up time and time again, comes back for more, wins the ball and then the opposition fall down (laughing I'll bet) and the whistle goes, against him!!!
It happened to Holland and to lesser footballing nations from Africa as well. These nations haven't a chance as long as the rules are so freely interpreted.

Good Point Uwe about England managers being impressed by 'names'. Do you think Walcott would of been on the plane had he still been at Southhampton? Bent from Charlton diserved to go, maybe if he plays for Liverpool he'l get a game. The same could be said about Defoe - e should of gone ahead of Owen who'd been out for most of the season. Maybe it's not a valid point as he plays for Spurs but for me I think Sven was always a bit star struck. I won't even go into the Beckham debate...

One more thing on the 1966 "victory":

Let me put this diplomatically polite:
Hurst kicked the ball and the man on the line scored.
Face it guys:you may have unjustly won in 66.That's become a curse.And as long as you do not admit to the probably unjust victory it will stay alive.But YOU will NEVER admit that.Keep on living in your Wembley Dream as you will never become WC again.But that - I guess or even know - is a pain that you are used to.
God save the Queen

Hey Peter how can u say only Rooney, Terry/Ferdinand are good English footballers? Im no Arsenal or Chelsea fan, im not even English but how can you not mention Ashley Cole, probably the BEST left back in the world, and Lampard voted 2nd best player in the world behind Ronaldinho. You may wanna check the line up again son!

this is funny. I am a Scot who lives in the USA and lived in Germany for 6 years. My daughter was born there. I also travel to Scotland games. We have a rivalry with a bigger neighbour and it was always a lot more important to us to beat them. What I discovered living in Germany is that the Germans really quite like the English and many things about English culture. The Germans are simply a better footballing nation over 40 years than the English, who cling onto a World Cup win which FIFA did everything in their power to gift to them in the formative years of the post-war football era. The modern World cup is a test of nations who like football as a sport and not as a soap opera as the English do. If you did't enjoy the culmination of the last 2 years puffing and whining, the next 2 years until McLaren gets sacked will be even worse - you simply do not have 11 talented players. At least you could learn to be gracious to a host country who have consistently played the best attacking football in the tournament and who are simply better at football by every measure - and will be for a long time to come.

While the "stars" are underperforming in this World Cup, it is team effort that is showing in the end. England started to play like a team with a heart only after Rooney was sent off. You need a team, not a selection of "stars". As to Portugal, I think they clearly deserved to win against Holland. It is more difficult to say with England, because the English side gets large credit for managing well with 10 men. But you can't say anything or anyone prevented England from scoring the penalties except for Ricardo and the English strikers themselves.
Portugal seems to me have a heart for staging a good battle against France.

Paul Fletcher is at least honest, but I still don't believe that the Brits have now overcome their Germanophobia.

It is a bit shocking to read that Fletcher has only now discovered modern Germany. It has been there for quite a while, Paul.

The problem goes much deeper and has to do with a nation that ruled much of the world, but not for very long. After all, there is also still the inferiority complex vis-a-vis the French, right?

Unless Britain finds a comfortable place in the family of European (!) nations, this is just useless drivel. My suggestion is to show up next time with a British squad.

To Superjim I'd say: Check again the 1966 footage. The 4th goal was scored with supporters on the pitch. Clearly not a correct goal either.

I love how the English still rant about the Germans. I mean, the English people still suffer from the "lost empire" syndrome: they won the Second World war to see the Americans take over world affairs; they continuously bring up the 1966 (sigh..) World Cup as a reminder that, in 2006, England is still relevant to football. In fact, England isn't relevant to football anymore. And the English fans much less. The messianic habit of seeing in Rooney (an immature kid, frustrated and in need of psychological help, clearly) the new savior of England illustrates that. 1966 is gone. Meanwhile, England lost, again.
Germany, on the other hand, has shown that football is not so much about "stars", but about team spirit, devotion and fortitude. No Beckham, no Rooney, no pompus stars. Hence the victories.

Thanks,

John

I really hope Portugal wins it now- all the other teams have won it before- I think that the underdogs could do it this time round!

Thomas
you seem to forget what your team did in 1954, kicking the hell out of hungarian players, Didn Argentina deserve a penalty against germany? Didnt Klose deserve a red card what he did to the goal keeper?
At least We lose on penalties to strong teams, not to Bulgaria or Croatia or cheating our way with hesitant referees, you are just another sour kraut.

I'm from Malta thats split between Azzuri fans and England fans I live with two die hard italy fans and tehy are making my life hell as england are out please oh please let them not win the world cup as i wont be able to live this down for another 4 years and might even have to move out.

i hope this world cup has shown the so called football fans who "hate" their rivals that football is in fact "the beautiful game" and should be played in the spirt of international friendship. as a german fan i want my team to win but i truley dont mind the outcome of the coming games as long as they are exiting to watch and all the teams play their best

Paul Fletcher is at least honest, but I still don't believe that the Brits have now overcome their Germanophobia for good.

It is a bit shocking to read that Fletcher has only now discovered modern Germany. It has been there for quite a while, Paul. Probably longer than you have been around.

The problem goes much deeper and has to do with a nation that ruled much of the world, but not for very long. After all, there is also still the English inferiority complex vis-a-vis the French, right?

Unless Britain finds a comfortable place in the family of European (!) nations, this is just useless drivel. My suggestion is to show up next time with a British squad.

In principle, I would want the best team to win, but I am always uncomfortbale with Italy: Most Italians still think that cheating is OK (that's why Berlusconi was so popular), but are they really doing a favour to football with this attitude? Mind you, quite a number of the Italian players may be heading for jail back home. As German comedians pointed out, this may motivate the players: A world champion may be allowed to shower alone in an Italian jail. ;-)

To Superjim I'd say: Check again the 1966 footage. The 4th goal was scored with supporters on the pitch. Clearly not a correct goal either.

I'm German and I actually think Italy will make it tonight. They know how to score when they've got a chance. My bet: 3:0 Italy.

Paul Fletcher is at least honest, but I still don't believe that the Brits have now overcome their Germanophobia for good.

It is a bit shocking to read that Fletcher has only now discovered modern Germany. It has been there for quite a while, Paul. Probably longer than you have been around.

The problem goes much deeper and has to do with a nation that ruled much of the world, but not for very long. After all, there is also still the English inferiority complex vis-a-vis the French, right?

Unless Britain finds a comfortable place in the family of European (!) nations, this is just useless drivel. My suggestion is to show up next time with a British squad.

In principle, I would want the best team to win, but I am always uncomfortable with Italy: Most Italians still think that a little cheating is OK (that's why Berlusconi was so popular), but are they really doing a favour to football with this attitude? Mind you, quite a number of the Italian players may be heading for jail back home. As German comedians pointed out, this may motivate the players: A world champion may be allowed to shower alone in an Italian jail. ;-)

To Superjim I'd say: Check again the 1966 footage. The 4th goal was scored with supporters on the pitch. Clearly not a correct goal either.

Flo: Apart from maybe Michael Ballack ( who of course recently signed to play......*in England* ), there are no German players that are world class. Suuure you may think so, but obviously the rest of the world doesn't because Ballack was the highest ranked German in the 2005 FIFA player of the year list, at position 16! Lampard came second only to Ronaldinho - albeit a distant second.

Germany also played some pretty crap football before the World Cup remember ( 4-1 loss to Italy in May??! ).....or has this conveniently been forgotten?

Italy to win tonight hopefully on penalties :-)

germany should have half a star becuase west germany won and that doesnt count

One word describes how a team can beat a load of talented individuals.......GREECE!! I still scratch my head to the question, how did they win Euro 2004? The answer is being greater than the sum of their parts!Germany in the final of the last world cup and knocking on the door of the next one is a classic example of team work, passion and belief over a load of over paid primadonnas!

Credit where credit's due!

Paul Fletcher is at least honest, but I still don't believe that the Brits have now overcome their Germanophobia for good.

It is a bit shocking to read that Fletcher has only now discovered modern Germany. It has been there for quite a while, Paul. Probably longer than you have been around.

The problem goes much deeper and has to do with a nation that ruled much of the world, but not for very long. After all, there is also still the English inferiority complex vis-a-vis the French, right?

Unless Britain finds a comfortable place in the family of European (!) nations, this is just useless drivel. My suggestion is to show up next time with a British squad.

In principle, I would want the best team to win, but I am always uncomfortable with Italy: Most Italians still think that a little cheating is OK (that's why Berlusconi was so popular), but are they really doing a favour to football with this attitude? Mind you, quite a number of the Italian players may be heading for jail back home. As German comedians pointed out, this may motivate the players: A world champion may be allowed to shower alone in an Italian jail. ;-)

To Superjim I'd say: Check again the 1966 footage. The 4th goal was scored with supporters on the pitch. Clearly not a correct goal either.

Ah so the English are no different to the Scots.
The English always criticise the Scots for not supporting them, yet they show the same sentiments themselves for their own large neighbours.

i have nothing against germany,but i would like to see france v italy final.
as for thomas england did not cheat in 66 its the ref and linesman you should be knocking,same as maradona 'hand of god' goal .

so for me its FORZA ITALIA and bonne chance francais

TO THE DUTCHMAN, AND EVERY ONE ELSE! PORTUGAL OUT PLAYED GERMANY IN EURO 2000, 3-0 WITH THE 鈥淏鈥� SQUAD, OUT PLAYDED HOLLAND AND ENGLAND IN EURO 2004 AND WORLD CUP 2006, SO THE 鈥淟IKES鈥� OF PORTUGAL, HAVE SOME RESPECT. CONTINUE TO EXPLAIN A PORTUGUESE TEAM SPORTING CLUBE DE PORTUGAL OUT CLASS IN 2004/05 IN UEFA CUP TWO ENGLISH SIDES AND A DUCH TEAM, BENFICA IN 2005/06 OUT CLASS TWO ENGLISH SIDES ONCE MORE, IN CHAMPIONS LEAGUE. I NO IT鈥橲 HARD BUT DEAL WITH IT!!!

I have to say I do get fed up talking about 66. It's like at Wimbledon. Virginia Wade (yawn! Very annoying) gets wheeled out every year since there haven't been any English tennis players who have won a grand slam in the last however many years. As a nation we do like to live in the past.

I expect to see Germany win the World Cup, just because they seem to have that winning habit and it's on home soil. However I would like to see Italy win. Apart from having lived in Italy for a year, it has been good to see them play some positive football compared to their usual negativity and hopefully by winning it it will encourage them to continue playing attacking football. Besides, after the match fixing scandal they are going to need a bit of a boost.

A single star is classy.

Three or four stars makes the shirt look like it belongs to a diligent Macdonald's employee.

Come on Germany!

I harbour no rivalry with you at all being only 20 years old and also Germany is easily my favourite European country (well maybe the Czech republic comes close on the basis of Prague alone).

Enough of the English/German banter lets focus on tonight and get some serious views on the scoreline, style of play, stars on the night? Im going for Italy 2-1, posession game frustrating Germany with a few silly cards, maybe a dismissal, Totti stepping up to take the limelight

Paul Fletcher is at least honest, but I still don't believe that the Brits have now overcome their Germanophobia for good.

It is a bit shocking to read that Fletcher has only now discovered modern Germany. It has been there for quite a while, Paul. Probably longer than you have been around.

The problem goes much deeper and has to do with a nation that ruled much of the world, but not for very long. After all, there is also still the English inferiority complex vis-a-vis the French, right?

Unless Britain finds a comfortable place in the family of European (!) nations, this is just useless drivel. My suggestion is to show up next time with a British squad.

In principle, I would want the best team to win, but I am always uncomfortable with Italy: Most Italians still think that a little cheating is OK (that's why Berlusconi was so popular), but are they really doing a favour to football with this attitude? Mind you, quite a number of the Italian players may be heading for jail back home. As German comedians pointed out, this may motivate the players: A world champion may be allowed to shower alone in an Italian jail. ;-)

To Superjim I'd say: Check again the 1966 footage. The 4th goal was scored with supporters on the pitch. Clearly not a correct goal either.