成人快手

It is obviously better overall for the game if the World Champions are seen to play open, free-flowing football BUT it doesn't always work out that way! Brazil are the current world champions, and everybody would agree that they are blessed with supremely talented players who love to entertain, but they can't always, because, in order to become champions, they first need to WIN! Brazil certainly didn't entertain in their first game of this world cup, and each ofthe remaining teams in the quarter finals have had to go through spells when they haven't been "at their best". Granted England have appeared to be less entertaining than most, but in every game, they've been heavy favourites to win, and the opponents have had the whole team behind the ball for most of the game. It's difficult to entertain if the other team just set out to stop you from playing!
At the end of the day, the first priority has to be to secure victory - without that you can't become champions - once that's secured THEN you can entertain. That's the harsh reality of sport in general, not just football.

England win the world cup with boring football? I'd rather it was with style, but go ask a german fan if they'd rather not have won the world cup when their team was likened to a fnctional machine? I doubt very much the players would hand back their medals, and I'm sure the fans celebrated just as much.

Besides, we've played four games grimly true, but if we get to the final there's three more games left so maybe it's still possible to win with style.

If we did win it it wouldn't be the same as the Greece victory as some have suggested, they accomplished what was deemed impossible at the start of the tournement with team work and graft. Whereas England have been hotly fancied since way before the World Cup began and no one could say we didn't deserve to be at the top.

Saturday is slowly creeping closer...

If we play ugly and win it'll be ok. But if we lose without a single game to remember? And even if we play as ugly as we can we are still not sure to win it. England shouldn't play like this because that's the way to drive people away from the stadions and soon it can be just like in Italy. So please - play with style and if you win you'll become legends.

Maverick 'Superfly' Coolpants - I wish I'd thought of that - well done!

can anyone actually remember the last time england played a good 90minutes?? its no surprise we're not playing all conquering and attractive football as some people have been brain washed to believe we are capable of every game. we should beat portugal, even if they had deco and costinha

A friend of mine who played for Chelsea and Scotland a generation ago once said to me "if someone had told us that Scotland could win the World Cup by playing like England, we'd have said it wasn't worth it!"

To be honest guys, I think the only reason why most people hate England team is cause the English press make the England team the almighty team and say stupid and horrible things about the rest.

No team is the best cause one day you beat a good team and then the next you lose to a crap team.

As I said the English press make the football world hate England which is a shame.

To the Ref, keep the cards in your pocket or else

I think there has been too much expectation put on the english team, building them up to be the greatest team in the world running up to the world cup, but beautiful football isn't needed to win, it's great when it happens, and if people want to mention "boring,boring Arsenal", they played alot more attractive football, winning the leagure unbeaten, than other teams, but chelsea won the league twice in a row by sacrificing "beautiful football" for winning games, and wont success be the thing remembered most?

I might be wrong - but I don't recall the record books giving style marks... and you don't get extra points for exciting play - perhaps you should!!

* DaveH wrote:
I might be wrong - but I don't recall the record books giving style marks... and you don't get extra points for exciting play - perhaps you should!!

You get fans and more fans means more money. Maybe not as much as much as a team will earn with trophies but if everybody plays only for the title there'll be just one winner and if everybody plays for the game there'll be no losers.
It's an utopia but why not try doing it?

You can be forgiven for playing ugly and win against Brazil, Italy or Germany but against T&T, Paraguay, Sweden and Ecuador!

Are we concerned about this because we believe there is a correlation between style and and the act of winning or is it simply because we all want England to be seen to play well all the time and win as well ? As I recall Chelsea have not always set the Premiership alight with scintillating football but they ground out the results when it mattered and sometimes it was not pretty. England are not Brazil, we don't teach our players that way. If winning ugly is the best we can do i'll take it. The acid test will be when we meet top class opposition and then the excuses will end.

Being a staunch England fan, if we play like we did in the first 1/2 against Sweden, I hope we win the world cup. If we play like we did in the other 7 1/2s, I hope we get beat 5-0 by Portugal. It is not only about winning and I would hate to tell the world "play as unattractively as we do and you can win the world cup." Where would the future of football be going? Who would want to watch something like that every week?

I don't think international football is about attracting fans, it's about winning for your country, no matter how you do it, as long as it is in keeping with fair play etc. of course!

I agree with Tim but France and Brazil have been unconvincing (until their last matches), so England can be excused on that note. Like Rio said 'no one will remember the 1-0 wins against Ecuador if Englands name is on the world cup'. But i personally dont think they have what it takes and im betting on Big Phil & Portugal to do em over again, soz roo

If you play ugly you better bloody win the thing - that's the key lesson from Gilbert.

I personally don't agree with Rio
I've always felt that Danny Blanchflower, a legend for Tottenham Hotspur FC in the 1950s and '60s was right when he said:

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning,"
"The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

What do you think? Vote here:

If they win the final noone will care about how they won it. Arsenal did not win the CL after all.

I reckon this England team to be the best I've ever seen, maybe they could turn out to be World Champions, but I think the manager is not as class as the team. England have sheer quality throughout their squad, but Sven is ruining it! I mean, when was the last time you saw Lampard playing this bad?
What about the formation: 451 with Rooney as a sole striker... give me a break! Instead of picking Jenas or Walcott, why not to take a proven striker in Defoe or Johnson?

I fancy England to go through to semi-finals, because a match between Portugal and Brazil (if they win) would be too heart-braking for me!

The England team are a disgrace - sub rock star figures too consumed by their own celebrity and too busy raking in huge endorsements or making comedy programmes to actually play high tempo, flowing football.

The world looks on and laughs and quite rightly so.

The players, majority of the fans and idiot savant manager believe their own and the tabloids' hype about easily the worst team to make it to the quarter finals of a World Cup in the modern era, worse than the 2002 model.

Winning ugly is an aspiration devoid of all the soul, passion and occasional beauty that superlative football can offer.

Let Scolari end this circus on Saturday for another two years.

There is no such thing as winning ugly, there is only winning and losing. Keep winning England, i for one am right behind you.

I agree with Rio. I still believe we can win the whole thing and Im not bothered how we do it. The record books will just show that we won. Being a West Ham fan I was delighted to see us playing beautiful attacking football throughout the FA cup this year. But ultimatly it will only be me and my other loyal fans who will remember that. All other people will remember is that Liverpool won. The same will be said for England.
Also I'm not bothered that we havnt played our best yet. Look at Spain they seemed pretty good during the group stages but burnt themselves out for the game against France. Normally England have one great game in them a tournament. I wouldnt mind if this didnt come until the final, if at all, as long as we still keep winning.

If playing open attractive football guaranteed that you won more games than you lost - enough to become world champions - then everybody would do it. Unfortunately, not all teams are blessed with the skills of the Brazilians, and if they tried to play them at their own game, chances are they'd lose - see Ghana..
The aim of all the teams in Germany is to win the world cup. I would hope that they'd want to do that in the best style possible, but the goal is to WIN. That is why teams with inferior skills rely on organisation and hard work to beat teams with more flair and skill. Unfortunately, by the appliance of organisation and hard work, they sometimes, in fact often, achieve victory over the side with flair, unless the side with flair modify their game to incorporate a certain amount of organisation. The teams that England have played so far in the tournament have all had to stop England from playing in order to maximise their chances of achieving their goal - which is to win. That has led to quite dull encounters - so what should England do? Should they still go for it and risk a humiliating defeat, or should they apply the other skills that they have - tenacity, hard work, the will to win - to eventually overcome these teams?
What people seem to be suggesting is that, unless you can win attractively, you shouldn't bother... Well that would play into the hands of teams like Switzerland, who just stop other teams from playing. I'd defy anybody to play attractive football against them! Teams that are renowned for playing attractive football in England often pay the price - West Ham spent several years in the wilderness, and have had to compromise to some extent to get back into and survive in the Premiership. Chelsea have been critiscised for being unattractive, yet everybody marvels at Arsenal's flowing football - let's ask their fans - would they prefer to be champions or to be admired as playing attractive football, but fail to qualify for the Champions League?

There is a difference between "boring" football and "crap" football. The boring teams mentioned in an earlier post - West Germany and Arsenal (of a few years ago) passed the ball with accuracy and intent in all quarters of the field. The current England team are still struggling to stop playing "chuck it and chance it" football with 50/50 long passes. If they can start passing the ball along the ground instead of hoofing it into the outer atmosphere then they might have a chance.

Tam Franks - you're bitter, aren't you? Personally I'd rather be "the worst team to make it to the quarter finals of a World Cup in the modern era" (you obviously didn't see Switzerland-Ukraine or Italy-Australia) than not qualify at all like your miserable bunch of losers.

Winning is everything, winning in style is a bonus.

Ask the English Rugby team, all the way upto and through to the victory in the 2003 World Cup final England won ugly. The fans wont deny this, Woodward said as much.

England CAN play attractive football, they have done this many a time before but its harder to play good football when the opposition come to stop you playing rather than play themselves, we have seen that from 3 teams in this WC who have played us. With Sweden,who came to win, we had a great first half, our best so far.

Portugal have to come to win, they are pretty much on a par with us so they will take the game to us as much as we do to them. This creates an open, more attractive and exciting game.

I want to see England playing scintillating exciting football as much as the next man, but I'm not sure I totally agree about this perception of the "ugly" England performances (even if even Rio himself thinks that!).

Sure we haven't played anything like as well as we know those players are capable of, but there hasn't been nearly as much long ball stuff as is being made out - seriously, watch the Ecuador match back and count them. You'll barely have to use the fingers on one hand.

I get the impression that they're just doing enough and getting the job done. Isn't that pretty much exactly what Brazil have been doing? Did you see how shaky they were for points of the games against Australia and Ghana? And Italy haven't exactly ripped up any trees either - a last minute penalty needed against Australia. Clinging on against the 9 men of America for a draw.

The acid test for England, and the proof of the pudding, will be in seeing how (or indeed whether) they step up a gear or two against the big boys. Starting with Portugal on Saturday. If they perform badly there and limp out of another major tournament, let the hatchet jobs begin, but for now, I'm reserving judgement. I still think we're going to see some great football from England in this World Cup, and I have a feeling there might just be a little surprise at the end of this story for all those doubters out there.

Every media commentator refers back to a certain Dutch side who have gone down in history, and will always be remembered as the greatest team never to have won the world cup. If England continue playing the way they have and take home the trophy, they'll go down in history, and be remembered as the WORST side ever to win it.
On paper, England are one of the best teams in the world and should be embarrassed by the performances they have put in so far. Sweden and Switzerland played just as negatively as England (except with much poorer players), and could easily be in the position England are now. While Mexico and Australia, who played infinitely better than England (except with much poorer players), were really unlucky to get knocked out in the second round.
Playing the way they did, I dont think there is any other group England would have qualified from, never mind won, and yet we find ourselves talking about them winning the whole tournament. It will be the greatest injustice in world-cup history if they carry-on playing the way they have, and win it. Unless they prove themselves worthy, I hope they get thoroughly humiliated by Portugal!

Every media commentator refers back to a certain Dutch side who have gone down in history, and will always be remembered as the greatest team never to have won the world cup. If England continue playing the way they have and take home the trophy, they'll go down in history, and be remembered as the WORST side ever to win it.
On paper, England are one of the best teams in the world and should be embarrassed by the performances they have put in so far. Sweden and Switzerland played just as negatively as England (except with much poorer players), and could easily be in the position England are now. While Mexico and Australia, who played infinitely better than England (except with much poorer players), were really unlucky to get knocked out in the second round.
Playing the way they did, I dont think there is any other group England would have qualified from, never mind won, and yet we find ourselves talking about them winning the whole tournament. It will be the greatest injustice in world-cup history if they carry-on playing the way they have, and win it. Unless they prove themselves worthy, I hope they get thoroughly humiliated by Portugal!

England is like those Street-Sweeper-Trucks. Ugly boring dirty, but don't try standing in front of it.
The only problem is England is on the same side as Brasil, which is a death toll. In this World Cup the drawing put a lot of strong teams together - Too bad England did not fall in Group G or even H.

I think winning ugly is fine. But win ugly confidently and convincingly.

Robinson gives me jitters every time a high ball comes into the box. Terry is brilliant in one game and slips in the next. Midfielders cannot keep possession even against mediocre opponents. Set pieces are poorly defended. A goal was conceded from a long throw at the last minute. England snatched a draw from the jaws of victory.

I don't argue with 1-0, but England has to shut out opponents convincingly, like how the Italians shut out Australia even with one man less. Buffon and Italian defence dominated the game. That is what I call winning ugly. English players flatter themselves by comparison.

Timoty is totally right.
A dour 1-0 win against Argentina would be a great result.
But these lesser teams should be meat and fodder for the likes of Lampard and Gerrard.

Anyone reckon there's any chance of McLaren being given the sack before he's even got the job if we lose against Portugal?!

ahhh - if only...

Just to add. In the Australia - Italy match, the commentator said that Australia would not score against the Italians (with 10 men) even if they played whole night.

This is winning ugly convincingly. Unless England can achieve this kind of standard, the players are fooling themselves. The so called ugly wins are lucky wins in disguise.

What can we say is likely to happen in Saturday's match from what has gone before? Perhaps England gain an early lead.....and then fail to press for a decisive win. Maybe they hang on, maybe not. Or Portugal get an early lead. I think, despite the adulation of Scolari, that they would also not press for a victory but would settle for what they have. 1-0 to someone seems a good bet anyhow.

I hope I am wrong but the above scenario depresses me, even if it involves an England victory. I will cheer passionately any England goal.....I will be proud of them if they play with passion and lose.......and I will be embarassed if they play as they have been doing and win again. Feel free to call me unpatriotic.

Rooney is capable of raising the team out of it's Sven inflicted timidity, so I still have hope.

Hmmmm.

Tam Franks in the earlier post.. Are you from Scotland by any chance. Apply the old Lottery phrase.... you have to be in it to win it.. and you ain't.
Hopefully Walter Smith might be able to knock enough of a team together to give you a chance for the next competition, but even David Blaine wouldn't hold his breath.

SeaLife Octopus oracles Quarter Final winners:

Obviously SeaLife, a mini-sea world type of Aquarium in Speyer, Germany, today did some kind of PR thing: They let two octopus oracle the results of of Quarter Finals.

Here are their interesting results. Let me add right away: I hope this just remains a stupid incident by some animals ;-)...

- Germany will not be able to beat Argentinia

- Ukraine will send home Italy

- Big surprise for BRA-FRA: Zidane will continue to Munich

- The Portugese will be flying back home...

Well, they said one of the octopus were born in the UK... My verdict is it's biased ;-)

Win????? How?? England is going home on Saturday... for sure!

Win????? How?? England is going home on Saturday... for sure!

Totally agree with the guy who quoted Blanchflower, and add my favourite from Busby: Winning at all costs is not the test of true achievement. There is nothing wrong with trying to win, so long as you don't set the prize and the garland above the game itself.

Personally I found a lot of positives in the match against Ecuador. One of the major up-shots is that the perculiar belief in the capacity of Mr Terry to halt the world's great players who lie in wait will have been disturbed somewhat, thus keeping everybody on their toes.

Above all, I have noticed the sum of Eriksson's work begin to bear fruit, as England, tactically, physically and mentally looked better than for a good while. Those who still insist that the hugely limited talents of the likes of Defoe and Bent should have been hung out to dry on this exhaulted stage should take a good hard look at Sven's tactics. You never know, instead of criticising based on what you think you already know, you may just learn something that you can't believe you missed.

Apologies in anticipation of poor spelling/grammar!

Ghana played with flair and style but Brazil did the scoring. what is the point? I'd rather England wins the world cup (we are overdue for it) with "the end justifying the means" than play with style and flair to end up losing "gallantly"

If, like Greece, the ONLY way a team can win is by playing ugly negative footy, then it is difficult to criticize. What is frustrating is that England have talented players who are capable of winning and playing fast, attacking football. Unfortunately, it looks to me like the system they are playing is stifling the gifted players (Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard) and that exciting players (Lennon, and potentially Walcott) are not getting their chances. Sven is a reverse alchamist - turing gold into lead. Having said this, Italy continue to play utter dross - as they always do - and win, and nobody seems to complain about them

To Michael Hennessy, first and foremost, most commentators refer to the Brazil side from 1980 as the greatest side never to win the tournament. Secondly, regardless of how badly, unattractively (hope i got that right?!) a team plays, you surely can't hope that they get "thoroughly humiliated", regardless of your personal viewpoint. As much as I'm not a fan of the current French team, and would have preferred the Spanish to have progressed, i am not spiteful enough to hope for a demolition job by Spain. As football is a results business first and foremost we are here ON MERIT. We have not had any off-side goals, any goals that have been a major source of dispute, in the same way that we haven't had any chalked off for the opposition that were wrong. And the fact that you described it as "the greatest injustice in world cup history" tells me that your view is tempered by a personal agenda and is not done after the final has taken place. Who knows, England my from Saturday play 3 of the greatest games that anyone has seen, and people will concede that it was a process of improvement in the tournament. A true injustice of the world cup is something like the Oceania area is the ONLY area of FIFA that does not get an automatic qualifying place. Now everyone back off with all the hate and wait to see what unfolds, we are in the quarter final of the world cup, what's gone has gone, time to LOOK FORWARD, and not use over the top personal agendas.

To Michael Hennessy, first and foremost, most commentators refer to the Brazil side from 1980 as the greatest side never to win the tournament. Secondly, regardless of how badly, unattractively (hope i got that right?!) a team plays, you surely can't hope that they get "thoroughly humiliated", regardless of your personal viewpoint. As much as I'm not a fan of the current French team, and would have preferred the Spanish to have progressed, i am not spiteful enough to hope for a demolition job by Spain. As football is a results business first and foremost we are here ON MERIT. We have not had any off-side goals, any goals that have been a major source of dispute, in the same way that we haven't had any chalked off for the opposition that were wrong. And the fact that you described it as "the greatest injustice in world cup history" tells me that your view is tempered by a personal agenda and is not done after the final has taken place. Who knows, England my from Saturday play 3 of the greatest games that anyone has seen, and people will concede that it was a process of improvement in the tournament. A true injustice of the world cup is something like the Oceania area is the ONLY area of FIFA that does not get an automatic qualifying place. Now everyone back off with all the hate and wait to see what unfolds, we are in the quarter final of the world cup, what's gone has gone, time to LOOK FORWARD, and not use over the top personal agendas.

To Michael Hennessy, first and foremost, most commentators refer to the Brazil side from 1980 as the greatest side never to win the tournament. Secondly, regardless of how badly, unattractively (hope i got that right?!) a team plays, you surely can't hope that they get "thoroughly humiliated", regardless of your personal viewpoint. As much as I'm not a fan of the current French team, and would have preferred the Spanish to have progressed, i am not spiteful enough to hope for a demolition job by Spain. As football is a results business first and foremost we are here ON MERIT. We have not had any off-side goals, any goals that have been a major source of dispute, in the same way that we haven't had any chalked off for the opposition that were wrong. And the fact that you described it as "the greatest injustice in world cup history" tells me that your view is tempered by a personal agenda and is not done after the final has taken place. Who knows, England my from Saturday play 3 of the greatest games that anyone has seen, and people will concede that it was a process of improvement in the tournament. A true injustice of the world cup is something like the Oceania area is the ONLY area of FIFA that does not get an automatic qualifying place. Now everyone back off with all the hate and wait to see what unfolds, we are in the quarter final of the world cup, what's gone has gone, time to LOOK FORWARD, and not use over the top personal agendas.

To Michael Hennessy, first and foremost, most commentators refer to the Brazil side from 1980 as the greatest side never to win the tournament. Secondly, regardless of how badly, unattractively (hope i got that right?!) a team plays, you surely can't hope that they get "thoroughly humiliated", regardless of your personal viewpoint. As much as I'm not a fan of the current French team, and would have preferred the Spanish to have progressed, I am not spiteful enough to have hoped for a demolition job by Spain. As football is a results business first and foremost we are here ON MERIT. We have not had any off-side goals, any goals that have been a major source of dispute, in the same way that we haven't had any chalked off for the opposition that were wrong. And the fact that you described it as "the greatest injustice in world cup history" tells me that your view is tempered by a personal agenda and is not done after the final has taken place. Who knows, England my from Saturday play 3 of the greatest games that anyone has seen, and people will concede that it was a process of improvement in the tournament. A true injustice of the world cup is something like the Oceania area is the ONLY area of FIFA that does not get an automatic qualifying place. Now everyone back off with all the hate and wait to see what unfolds, we are in the quarter final of the world cup, what's gone has gone, time to LOOK FORWARD, and not use over the top personal agendas.

I would just love to see England come out and play some terrific sparkling football on Saturday, and put away the portugese 2 or 3 nil.

But I don't think it will happen, I would suggest that the tactics will be to try and get a goal and do enough to see out the game. After all, surely progression to the semis is more important than anything at this stage.

An interesting scenario would be, what would happen if England were to go a goal down (something we have not seen at these championships yet, may I remind you). We would then have to at least go on the attack and chase the game, perhaps then we will see the 'performance' that many of you crave. Personally the team can hold on to that 'performance' until the final.

I will remain forever optomistic of our chances until we are beaten. And even though I would prefer to see us play 'attractive' football, I would still rather us get the job done, regardless.

I would just love to see England come out and play some terrific sparkling football on Saturday, and put away the portugese 2 or 3 nil.

But I don't think it will happen, I would suggest that the tactics will be to try and get a goal and do enough to see out the game. After all, surely progression to the semis is more important than anything at this stage.

An interesting scenario would be, what would happen if England were to go a goal down (something we have not seen at these championships yet, may I remind you). We would then have to at least go on the attack and chase the game, perhaps then we will see the 'performance' that many of you crave. Personally the team can hold on to that 'performance' until the final.

I will remain forever optomistic of our chances until we are beaten. And even though I would prefer to see us play 'attractive' football, I would still rather us get the job done, regardless.

"Ghana played with flair and style but Brazil did the scoring. what is the point? I'd rather England wins the world cup (we are overdue for it) with "the end justifying the means" than play with style and flair to end up losing "gallantly""

It's hard to beleive Brazil is playing ugly in the game,especailly compare with England's one.

They beat the offside tape well in the first goal and sorce in style. Then the counter they play is top class.They always go forward when chance is come.

See what happen when England is leading. They sit back, deeper and deeper as the time pass and never looking forward to score again. Job always done except playing with Brazil or Portugal.

The strategy fail not one but twice, is it going to work this time?

I understand when people say " we'll have no game to remeber " if we go out on saturday. However, in sport, you as an individual, team or manager you are remembered by your results. I believe you play to win, and win any way you can. Although England's performance's have been below par, people can't really complain because we're in the quarters. Some people may think we don't deserve to be there but the results don't lie if u can't produce a end product e.g Ghana, then you're never going to succeed.
England winning with poor performances only signals towards that when they do perform the other team will be blown away. Saying that if they won all the following games 1-0 and performed poorley i wouldn't care.

RESULTS = 1st
PERFORMANCE = 2nd

C'mon ENGLAND

We are through to the quarter finals of the World Cup and typical of the English nation we are still not happy. Yes we are playing ugly football and yes we would love to show all the flair, step overs, fancy juggling etc etc that Argentina, Brazil and Portugal do with ease, but at the end of the day we are a nation of work horses. If you look at teams like Chelsea, yes they have all the gifted show men on display but its the work horse like Frank Lampard (who I have to say is having a terrible world cup yet everyone moans about Becks!!!!) that are the back bone of the team. Sadly for us when the England team get together it is of course a whole team of work horses with only the odd player that can show some fancy foot work now and again. And can I just say that if Brazil can love and worship Ronaldo knowing that he might only do one or two important moments of magic to win them the game can you all lay off Becks because so far this world cup it has been either a Becks free kick or magical accurate pass that has achieved Englands goals, I think there are a few other players that should be under the microscope long before he is even mentioned.

OK, it's obviously a competition and like any competition, it's about winning. But it's also meant to be a spectacle, and a showcase for the world's best players to deomnstrate what they're capable of.

If it was purely about winning in whatever dour way was necessary, they might as well play behind closed doors and post the results on the web each day. Only complete football obsessives or technical experts would bother to watch. Casual spectators would soon be turned off.

Look at the way that the England cricket XI got the country behind them last year - people who probably didn't have a clue about cricket suddenly became interested because the games were close and exciting. We need our football team to do the same.

This is in response to Phil McNulty's blog about the Beautiful Game. I have been a futbol fanatic all my life, and the most enjoyable and memorable matches have been those in which style is delicately interwoven with skill and strategy. Futbol cannot come down to 10 guys chasing each other and smashing into one another on the pitch for 90 minutes; otherwise, you might as well watch American football. Sports in the U.S. have been reduced to cold, calculated attacks with zero entertainment value. In contrast, the Beautiful Game should remain just that: a game in which the players (not necessarily the winners) display strategy, tactics, skill, and style in an attempt to win the game. It is not about how many points are scored; it is about enjoying how the game is played and won. It is about creating memories such as those left to eternity by Pele and others.

Winning the World Cup is style enough!

Of course the fans want to watch a game that showcases the best in football. After all, it is the World Cup. However, the cold, hard truth is that players are selected to compete toward a single result -- winning. Similarly, managers are tasked with assembling teams and devising strategies in order to achieve a single result -- winning. Mexico played a beautiful game against Argentina, as did Australia against Italy, but all the compliments in the world will do little to assuage thier respective disappointment about the fact that they are going home. No one receives style points at the World Cup. You win or you go home.

I agree with Ferdinand "winning is all that matters" - when you've been as long as England has without some silverware (and you remember all the tournaments!)it tends to focus you on the result , pure and simple.

As players say - nobody remembers whether you did or didn't play well when they read your name on the trophy in the years to come....they just remember your name..

On another note and I would apreciate your comments on this - I have just heard that the England v Portugal match on saturday will have an Argentinian Referee!
I have to say this does not fill me with joy! Is he REALLY going to be impartial ??
I would like to get a comment back from FIFA to reassure me - but their website does not encourage you to contact them.
What do others feel?

when it comes to sport and specially football the psychological edge is the most important factor to winning. Playing timidly like they have since the begining of the tornament the boys will not instill fear into the big guns like Brazil,Italy or even Portugal; this will surely make easy for them to outplay England.

Ugly football is good only when it's played efficiently. So england has a long way to go before they even claim that they are good enough to win the world cup. Right now I'd rather play england than any of the other teams (Ukrain is not included)

Of course the fans want to watch a game that showcases the best in football. After all, it is the World Cup. However, the cold, hard truth is that players are selected to compete toward a single result -- winning. Similarly, managers are tasked with assembling teams and devising strategies in order to achieve a single result -- winning. Mexico played a beautiful game against Argentina, as did Australia against Italy, but all the compliments in the world will do little to assuage thier respective disappointment about the fact that they are going home. No one receives style points at the World Cup. You win or you go home.

Guess I am just confused, England are in the quarter finals but I am not allowed to celebrate, because we haven't played with style, finese, grace. WHATEVER, would you rather we got up to the garbage seen in Portugal v Holland, Italy v US & Australia, how do you think the French feel or the Ukraine. Get over it, enjoy where we are and if we're done by saturday you can all play armchair critic until August when England get replaced by whatever team we support until the next time we get to crucify the national side

I'll take the win anytime. I guess the 'poor' football just instills a lack of faith in the team.

A win's a win and that's all I want for England, however we get it.

Aircool

Winning is not everything but the will to win is. I dont care how England play (Ugly or Beautiful), all that matters is that they try their best.

鈥淪ure I am this day we are masters of our fate, that the task which has been set before us is not above our strength; that its pangs and toils are not beyond our endurance. As long as we have faith in our own cause and an unconquerable will to win, victory will not be denied us.鈥�

Winston Churchill

England all we ask is for you to try your best and give your all, nothing else. We are a nation behind you as a whole and proud.

May the ref's be fair, the players be great and that the English chant together, untill the end, England we are forever.

The likes of Ferdinand and Erikson who believe that ugly soccer is OK as long as the team wins are pandering to the God of selfishness and greed.They are selfish for the success that winning the world cup will bring to them personally and greedy for the extra money that will flow to them after winning from sponsors / TV companies /retail trade etc. - the people who really control the game today and who have turned it into a turgid business rather than the wonderful entertainment it used to be.What England should be trying to do is match the atmosphere of carnival, celebration and theatre that has been the hallmark of this year's world cup off the field. I live near Hanover and have never enjoyed the city so much as I have the past few weeks during which time the Germans have demonstrated how to bring the world together as one in an exciting and fun filled way. The only dampeners on a wonderful occasion have been the woefully unattractive soccer played by England plus the lamentable claim that the quality of the game is less important than the winning of it. Irresponsible cant from lucky guys whose only reason for being amongst the wealthiest and some would say most important members of society is the ability to kick a ball from one end of a field to another. Says all there is to say about modern values.

It's interesting how few anti-Owen Hargreaves messages one see's on this blog these days. Only a few weeks ago the 成人快手 Sport online Chief football writer was writing that Hargreaves was not worth a place in the squad. I hope they serve humble pie in Baden-Baden.

Depsite all the arguments about "winning is the most important thing", "history only remembers victors" and "a win's a win", I think we all would much rather have England play football which we can feel proud of and feel happy about. Sure, I want England to win, and would rather have them win than not - and I will be ecstatic if England win, even if they do carry on playing rubbish football. But some part of me (and I am sure this applies to everyone else as well) hopes that England will play amazing footbally and blow the others teams off the park - so that no one can ever turn around and say that England were lucky, or that they did not deserve to win. All of us would rather have England play like Brazil than Germany or Italy - all three have won many times, but it's the recoginition and the respect that Brazil gets which puts them apart from the other two. And that is what I (and I think everyone else) would like - that people look at England after the world cup and admit that they were the best team and deserved to win.

In short - a win would be superb, but a win where England play the beautiful game like it is meant to be would be out of this world.

People who voice their support of winning ugly miss the point.

A key part of winning ugly means having the ability to shut out opponents when the team is 1-0 up, denying opponent space and strangling the game.

England never look comfortable defending a lead, always giving the ball away and giving opponent chances. You always feel England is living on the edge. Only because we were not playing against top opponents were those chances not put away. Look at the Sweden game, not only was it not pretty, it was not winning.

Don't mistake winning lucky for winning ugly.

Please can everyone stop being so negative about dull football. There's nothing like a shaky 1-0 victory to keep you on the edge of your seat until the end. I watched Brazil v. Japan with a Brazilian friend the other day. They were bored with 30 minutes to go...

But seriously can't everyone wait to reserve judgement until either we plunge out of the competition or lift the trophy in stunning style - try to enjoy it - surely that's what its all about.

Winning is the only consideration in the Worldcup, if it can be done by presenting a brilliant display of footballing prowess then great. If not, I'll just take the win for England, anyway it comes. These players are supposed to be the best of England, that is why they were picked in the first instance.

The main consideration each of these players have to face, is, can they sleep at night knowing they gave their best, if not then shame on them.

The thing is, it's not as simple as a choice between being entertaining but losing and playing 'ugly' but winning. Generally, the best way to ensure consistent success is to be able to pass and keep the ball, show good technique, be able to create and take chances, and play positive football to ensure that you score enough goals so that even if the opposition score you can still win (ie not jst relying on 1-0 all the time)- whilst of course being organised in defence. There's a myth that if you play attacking football, you must have a dodgy defence - it's simply not true, as Arsenal (to name just one example) proved in 2003-04.

In terms of England, it's clear that if we don't improve we won't win the World Cup - therefore we'll go out in the quarters or semis, having provided no entertainment, excitement or glory even to our own fans. And of course, the main thing a fan wants is for their team to win, but what is football (and sport generally) about, what is it for? To entertain, to inspire, to provide glory and memorable moments - otherwise, if you take what Rio is saying to it's logical conclusion, no-one would bother watching the game and would just look for the result on Teletext and think 'Oh, we won, that's good, it's the result that counts.' Where's the excitement, inspiration and glory in that?

Rio (and all those who defend 'winning ugly') are also being misleading, trying to make out that the way we're playing is part of a plan. In reality we don't seem to have a plan - either that or the manager is not communicating it to his players. We're not deliberately playing negative football, controlling games efficiently and winning 1-0 (like Italy used to), we're not even playing a traditional 'British' game (physical, basic and direct but effective), we're just struggling through matches against inferior opposition, relying on individuals to produce a moment of magic (like Beckham and Cole have) or provide a good cross we can score from. The players don't seem to have been told how to approach the game mentally or how to play tactically.

It's not about playing 'flair' football or boring football - every nation has it's own style and football culture, and we'll never play quite like the Brazilians - it's about positive football, every country is capable of playing that, whatever style they use. Watch the Premiership and you generally see positive football - based on speed, strength and never giving up, and sometimes technically limited, but still positive - and it's good to watch. But England are not even doing that at the moment. In fact, we've ended up with the worst characteristics of two styles of football: we have the boring, pragmatic, over-controlled football you sometimes see in European countries like Italy (with none of the technical ability or tactical knowledge) combined with the one-dimensional, technically deficient football you can see in England (with none of the pace or attcking intent).

I wouldn't rule out a great England performance coming out of nowhere, as we've seen in the past, but having had a Continental manager for five years, the best group of players we've had for a long time, and a much higher level of technique in the Premiership, we shouldn't be relying on that - we should be able to perform consistently and use the ability of the quality players we've got - at the moment, the England team is less than the sum of its parts.

I think it is not about England playing boring football but about England playing badly. With performances like these they simply won't get through teams like Germany,Argentina or Brazil, even Italy or France so Ericsson better not fool himself and the fans. Unless performance is dramatically improved, England is simply not going to win anything in this World cup. Unfortunately.

I'm a fan of football first england 2nd. As such playing the way they have, particulary with their appalling inability to string 3 passes together, for which Beckham is the chief culprit, has stretched my patience to breaking point. Quite frankly if we get to meet Brazil in the semi or even more far fetched argentina in the final I'm tempted to say that I'll be cheering for the opposition. If I can feel as bad about the wins that we have had why should i feel any better after winning those games. Its not just about winning ... I want to be entertained, I want to look to these guys and admire something special, I want to celebrate skill and see a performance that warrents me believing that my team is the best not that we simply managed to emply tactics that negated the skills of the opposition and managed to scrape a luck one in 3 year goal. Nobody can tell me that they will want to remember and revere this team in the way we've done with Ramsay's boys for the past 40 years or the fantastic Brazillian side of 1970. What will you tell your Grandchildren in 30-40 years time when they ask grandad/grandma what was it like when england won in 2006 and the only good memory you have to relate was the cup being lifted?

better luck next time Darren and jermaine

Unless we start Gerrard behind Rooney we have no chance!

i jus blogged about this very issue earlier today... here goes...https://orthoview.blogspot.com/2006/06/winning-ugly.html

i blogged about this very issue earlier today... here goes...

I wish everybody following England's progress - media and public alike - would try and maintain a modicum of rationality about this whole subject. To be frank, England have been mediocre at best thus far. Yet they are in the quarter finals of football's greatest competition without having to raise their game... and you still badmouth them!
The problem you guys have had is the English media's insistence - once again - on hyping the team as the best national side ever/world beaters/kings of the footy world (take yer pick). You were fed it for months prior to the start of the tournament and unfortunately expectations have been raised to near-impossible levels, where every game "should be won 4-0" with Rooney slotting in a hat-trick in the first five minutes and Joe Cole waltzing through seven defending players to blast home the fourth.
This is pure fantasy - England haven't lifted a single trophy for forty years and have consistently worked hard to grind out results. But the side are endowed with some sublimely gifted players and by raising their game and with a pinch of luck they could - possibly - do it. Nobody is unbeatable, not even Brazil.
In short, why don't you all lighten up and enjoy the ride? As a Welshman I'm rooting for your lot all the way - at least you've got a national side who can reach these tournaments, unlike the bunch of second-rate Sunday League hoofers we've got representing my country!

Well done Mike, I for one will be up late on Saturday night (English living in Australia) to watch England in the quarter finals.

Fingers crossed we can string 3 more results together and take the cup home. Then we'll have the Rugby world cup, Ashes and Football World Cup all at once, which will be nice as we look long odds to keep hold of the first 2!

Obviously me crowing at work for the next 6 months has nothing to do with it.

Living overseas as I do I am not exposed to the normal UK media hype, but that hasn't made watching England any less painful.

They have been playing so poorly, my Thai colleagues summed it up well, "Not impressive!"

If England are trying to emulate the Arsenal style of football they have to learn how to keep possession and to make the most of the opportunitities they create!

Passing drills for everyone, and for can someone please take Lampard and introduce him to the goal posts - how can he have the most shots in the whole tournament and not have a single goal to show for it?!!

Watching Ferdinand pushing players around in the Ecuador game decisevely put me off England. Likewise Rooney's bitching and shouting at the Refs.

I have enthusiastically supported England but I am not so lame as to follow them no matter how low they sink. Even Terry seems to be losing his finesse.

With so many good teams in the Tournament I find it no loss if England's current clumbsy squad goes out in favor of a more graceful and less bullying team.

I'll put sport before nationalism.

Why? Because this is a sport.

Winning ugly is what Italy have always done - by fair means or foul - but they rightly are not respected for it.
To a lesser extent Argentina have achieved the crown ( Maradona - hand of God for instance ) and Germany also ( some terrible foul play in the 50's and 70's - remember Harold Schumacher ?? )
But Brazil are rightly regarded as the supreme champions of football not because they have won it 5 times but because of the consistently wonderful way that they play the game.
England cannot win ugly because we simply cannot do the necessary due to the innate sense of fairness which is the epitomy of being British ( not just English ) - and for which we are generally renowned worldwide.
So the bottom line is that we have to win it the right way because that is the only way we are capable of winning it and that is indeed the way we won it the last and only time.
Geoff Hurst scored the only hatrick in World Cup Final history and this will rightly be remembered for all of history but for me our greatest player was Gordon Banks and he was probably the most important reason that we went all the way. Contrast the performances of our current goalkeeper and it is not difficult to see why our normally ever-reliable defence has looked so shaky and nervous and this is maybe also why our midfield has been unable to perform - they've been too busy trying to help the defence.
Confidence starts from the back - change the goalkeeper or book the tickets home now.......

Frank let me just enlighten you. I have never read or watch any English medias or whatsoever to understand or to be brainwashed how crappy english teams are at the moment. Everyone can see it how inefficient and resources being wastely used up on the pitch. You see, I watch English Premier League week in week out ( those big teams in EPL, and of course I study their tactics and all ) and if you must know, I truly understand the efficiencies of every game plan being adopted and what these English teams players are capable of. English team have a bunch of a very good players but I feel they are not in the safe hands of Sven Goran Erikson. I wasn't born yesterday in the football industry to believe the style Sven Goran Erikkson adopted is a style that will drive the English lifting the trophy on July 9. Not even a chance. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out, really. Why? Because they are not playing to their fullest capabilities and strengths with the tactics employed. FYI, Im from Singapore. The day when English got knock-out, everyone of us will be having this same conversation over and over again.

Winning isn't everything it's the only thing.... Ask Spain, played magnificently in the group games ... did they get more than 3 points for the game against Ukrane.. NO... are they in the last 8.. NO... Is Ukrane... YES.... do you think they would rather have looked great, which they did against Ukrane, or be in the last 8?

And until they start awarding points for style in a tournament of this nature it is irrelevent!

What is more worrying than any style isssue is the fact that we have an Argentinian referee for Saturday's game ..... funny how the only game that has a referee, from a country that still has it's team in the competition is England... a country who would significantly benefit from the demise of England..... and a country with no love of England and a history of cheating against them...

Does not fill me with confidence..... it's no good us losing with an obviously bent referee that everyone complains about and recognises as being unfit to ref... etc etc OUT is OUT!!

I think the Argentinian referee may be a positive......

Nobodies going to accuse him of being biased if the match has already been fixed in England's favour

Watch him give England a penalty in the 92nd minute - and let's hope we manage to score otherwise the plan may go awry !!!

I, and all my friends and family, don't give a flying fish about the performance. Winning is all that matters in a cup competition and we don't care how. The press and everyone else should get behind the lads and roar them on for three more wins. Look at the Czechs and the Dutch they played some beautiful football early on. Bet they'd swap!

no other team has started this world cup with more arrogance than the english.
no other press is bringing up the world against the english team faster, by insulting the rest.
no other fans are less welcome anywhere than the english. all fans have enjoyed and celebrated their stay in germany peacefully, except the english and polish.
no other team has so much overpromised attractive football and then underdelivered.
no other country is promoting hatred towards the german hosts louder and more ignorantly than the english.
why then should anyone cheer for england?

We've got the players (for once) who have the quality to win games AND should be able to do it with a certain amount of panache - why settle for drab, lathargic, narrow victories? That won't ever win a world cup..

Well said Rob Hughes, my sentiments are exact. Winning ugly means winning 1-0 like it was a well formulated and well worn plan.

England have not given me the impression that they are winning ugly. You can always worry about a nasty sting at the tail, just like it was against Sweden.

It is just a term slapped on by Rio and the rest of the team to deflect criticisms.

I have watched enough football in the past 20 years to know winning ugly when I see it.

England is winning lucky. Unless the players step up a gear, they will be found out.

If they feel it necessary to play ugly football just to secure wins over teams like Paraguay & T&T, then what hope could they possibly have against any decent team?

All thats going to happen is that they will take an embarrassing punishing and they will be standing there looking stupid, what would there be to remember from their campaign?

I wouldnt mind but in 2 years the press will asking the english fans once again to bow to the gods of football whilst rubbishing the rest. probably ending in the same conclusion

In 10 years time all that will be remembered is the result. Boring or exciting, winning is what the World Cup is about.
I am a Wales rugby supporter and we play some great rugby but have problems winning. I know what I would prefer!

To all those who talk about keeping the ball and technique, England have made more successful passes in the tournament than Portugal, and the pass success rates are comparable to the top portugese players.
As for technique, are you seriously telling us that Rooney isn't gifted in that regard, that Gerrard simply just gave his ("weaker", left footed) goal against Tri & Tob a bit of hit and hope? Also that Beckham isn't still one of the greatest passers of a ball in the world (admittedly he does look for the longer pass more often that is needed, but who else would you rather have making 45/50 yard passes?)
People must use the match against Argentina last November as more fo a guide than what has gone before in this world cup. I thuoght after the first 15/20 minutes they were going to blow us out of the water, but at full time, we earned the victory, and played to our strengths. Give the squad time and leave the prejudice (as in to pre judge somethin) of the Portugal out of the way and wait for the match, THEN give your opinion after full time.

Being a passionate scotsman who has lived in hyperland for 30 years, 2 kids (my boy is shouting for England, I can't ween him off with my biased view of England). First and foremost, Englands poor performances are a British problem, we play boot and shoot football so when you are all at home shouting at the telly for giving the ball away, remember that very few british players are comfortable retaining the ball, Gerrard, Beckham....etc first instinct is to look long. The continentals take their time and pass and move but more importantly, BALL RETENTION, they dont like giving it away. all the pundits are saying that England are playing below par, are they? when was the last time England played above par or even beat a team in the TOP 30.....its Hype!
For the importance of the beautiful game, England need to be knocked out, though I suspect there will be some obscure dodgy decision that will be highlighted over and over again........yours, A slightly Bitter Scotsman!

It seems our media, particularly down beat scotAlan Hansen(WHY DO WE HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SCOTS TALKING ABOUT ENGLAND WHY?
at least ali McMOIST is not as negative as hansen iot's all so down beat remember the aim of the game is to score more goals than the other team.sven was employed to win the world cup if he does great
style would be nice but there is no point in playing stylish football
and losing!
LINEKER, HANSEN AND ALAN GREEN SHOULD ALL BE ON THE TRANSFER LIST.WAS HANSEN THE BEST DEFENDER IN BRITAIN NO!
PLAYING STYLISH FOOTBALL WOULD BE SIMPLE WITH NO OTHER TEAM ON THE PITCH
THE MEDIA SHOULD GET A GRIP
HANSEN SHOULD BE RESTRICTED TO 成人快手 SCOTLAND WHAT HAVE WE IN ENGLAND DONE TO DESERVE HIM NEVER MIND FLOWER OF SCOTLAND WHAT ABOUT POWER OF WEEDKILLER.

Rio... you've just been merked.

When Brazil won on penalties in 94 (surely THE worst way to win a world cup) after a dire 0-0, did the Brazilians mind? Would we have declined an offer to take their place? I would rather the 'best' team win the world cup, for the greater good of football, but if it's a choice between that and a stagnant 1-0 for England to take the trophy, I'd happily go for that. And if we do win, I wonder how many England fans will complain about how it was won. I do believe we weren't the most beautiful side to watch in 66, but that seems to be mostly ignored these days and rightly so.

I hate that kind of mentallity - do they not understand that the whole point of football is how exciting it can be, and skillful the players are.

If I wanted to watch a sport where its only the victory thats important, I'd watch f1.

I'd rather we played great football and lost than win by playing ugly.

To Allie I, post 54.

I have been waiting for someone to mention the Argentinian ref and you haven't let me down! Why shouldn't he be impartial? What is it with people in England (and yes, I'm English) that they get this obsession with revenge? That ref has made it through to the quarters, that's more than you can say for most of them (Mr Poll included). What if it had been Markus Merk, the GERMAN ref, would you have still be so concerned? What about a French ref, maybe he wants revenge for Agincourt. Unbeliveable!! ONLY in England............ and I blame the media for their constant "remember the war", and "back in 943 BC the Argies did this and that blah blah blah".

One good reason please as to why he shouldn't be impartial?

Greece won Euro 2004, playing ugly and winning 1-0. I would settle for three more ugly 1-0 scorelines than playing better and conceding a break away goal and going out. If England win playing ugly in 20 years we will be remembered as 2006 world champians. Brazil are remembered as world champions in 1994 in America, the best team in the world at the time, playing ugly winning on penalties, not with their usual panache and flair. Nobody ridicules them for winning that world cup ugly.

Its called the beautiful game for a reason....

England have never really embraced a way of playing football that works for so many other teams simply because they are actually much better than us at that style of play.

Having said that... ill take a world cup win or even a semi final without to much complaint

I don't care about the english team, but the way team germany changed style of playing makes me happy. I take that about stumbling to the finals everyday!
Who cares about some official putting another cup in the showcase when you can enjoy games instead?!

That said what is it with english soccer fans? I come from sailing and the englishmen I met yachtracing were top notch and among the finest sportsmen. Beautiful people!
I happened to meet soccerfans now in germany and that was probably the worst encounter in my life.

Good luck Matt

Those people who quote Danny Blanchflower and Matt Busby are kidding themselves. These idealistic views have no foundation in reality particularly in the modern game where money rules and the financial stakes are high. As a result winning IS everything and yet it is sad that football has been ruined by such ludicrous amounts of money. Genuine fans of the game (of which I consider myself to be one) like to see the art and craft of football performed at its highest level as we can take enjoyment of our love for the game from this but generally we have an allegience to one team and unless this allegience belongs to one of football's elite (ie those with the biggest obscene amounts of money available to them) or we are Brazilian then we rarely experience the glory of winning trophies. As Adrian Chiles said recently for most of us football is about misery and disappointment, and so if there is even the slightest chance of experiencing such glory from England then we should back them and take it however it transpires and if that comes with style and flair then that is a bonus.

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?

Some of the football games have been fantastic some boring, as in all international tournaments.

But surely the reason that football is the most popular sport in the world is that it is 'the beautiful game' and that's why we as the fans pay sportstars like Rio Ferdinand so much money. I can go down to the local village pitch to see 'hoof it' football. Sport is entertainment, not just about results. So shame on you Rio for biting the hand that feeds you!!

And Paul, let's hope Brazil don't win again, otherwise football will be just like F1!

First of all, I don't agree that the winner is the one that is remembered after the world cup. I have much fonder memories, for example, from Czech Republic's display at Euro 2004 than from Greece's (I am not Czech). I am sure that Czech Republic won a lot more neutral supporters than Greece and overall they made a better impression, at least in my mind. So, at least to neutral fans, winning is far from being the only thing that matters. In my mind the Dutch team from the 70's is held in higher esteem than the German team that beat them.
Second, I wanted England to do well in this world cup (I am not English) because I like English football. However, seeing their performance so far, I no longer support them. I think the major problem with England is that Ericsson tries and, regretfully, to a large extent has succeeded, to teach the team to play negative, Italian football, which I admit in general is winning football. So far so good, but there are 2 major problems with this: 1/ You can play Italian football with Italians, not with Englishmen, just as you can never play German football with Brazilians. 2/ Italians play their football emphasizing their strength, that is defense, while England is not very good defensively (the only team that attacked your team - Sweden scored two goals). So, England players are playing against their nature and not to their strengths that we see in the premiership - speed, spirit and attack.
And this is part of a worrying trend that we see in this world cup - the differences in playing styles is less and less recognizable, that is they are converging. It almost does not matter which team is playing - we are watching almost the same stuff, especially from the more established teams. I would like the return to the old days when Brazil plays like Brazil, England as England and so on. But maybe this is just wishful thinking...

I don't think anyone would disagree that we have some of the best players in Europe in our squad. Players like Gerrard and Lampard who pass the ball for fun for their club sides. So why not for England? It's not because they have become poor players, it's because an average coach can bring a potentially great team down to his level, in the same way a great coach can produce great things from an average team.

Probably the last great England performance was at Euro '96 against Holland at Wembley under Venables. Just to contrast this, fast forward to Euro 2000 under Keegan and remember the rubbish we produced there with vitually the same squad. Managers and tactics do make a massive difference at this level and I'm afraid that is where we're lacking.

Having said that, with the injury to Owen, Sven may just have stumbled upon the 4-5-1 formation that could take us further than the 1/4 finals for a change. At least it gives us a solid base and we do undoubtedly have players capable of nicking a goal.

To John,

He of the No other team ,...no other supporters ... blah blah blah.

I would like to take this opportunity to state categorically that your stereo typical views do you no great service, unless of course you believe them....

However I would like to offer you a couple of facts... which you will I'm sure not want to hear but I will let you have anyway.

I live in Asia and have done so for over 10 years... I lived in Tokyo during the last World cup... No supporters were more welcome than the English in Japan and not just for financial reasons ... although without a doubt they were the largest spenders there.... they were funny well mannered and generally well behaved..

For your information the Irish fans created all of the problems and their extremely anti-English attitude
did not go un-noticed by all.

In Germany there are more English fans than any other nation.. therefore I would suggest that statistically there may be a little more trouble.... but proportionately less than any other nation based on numbers alone.

With regard to your attitudes concerning your other points..... any credibility that you may have had has been lost as a result of your dubiously based stereotyping..

May I suggest that you re-think your position in terms of your rabid anti -English racism and try and base your views, couched in a little more objectivity..

Oh yes, and by the way, nobody said they would play attractive football... just do their best to win... which so far they have singularly achieved!

Good Lad Rio!

Atta boy! Tell it as it is!

I have been in Germany for the World Cup with 2 of my sons and the long term beau of my youngest daughter. We followed Brazil, also now sadly departed. It was the most wonderful sporting event I have ever been to. A true festival of youth, so well organised by the Germans, whom with some degree of gratitude I have decided to support for the rest of the competition. The biergartens don't figure in these calculations of course.I even bought the appropriate baseball cap for the purpose. I don't know if you watched Brazil, but we were in the middle of that heaving mass of yellow, drums banging, samba girls in full costume and the native Brazilians so friendly and happy. You could easily recognise them for they knew all the words of their national anthem. It was totally joyous experience and worth all the considerable effort to make the trip.By time of the next one I shall be pushing 74, so I didn't go too soon.I was very reluctant right up to the off, but I allowed myself to be swept along by their energy and enthusiasm. We applied for tickets for Brazil in January 2005, and they duly arrived whilst we were in Spain at Easter time. As they say, all the rest was rock 'n roll.
As for England , what can one say? At 拢5m per year they couldn't even score from 12 yards, even given a 2 miss start by the opposition. Geoffrey Howe and broken bats spring, unbidden, into ones mind.

I have been in Germany for the World Cup with 2 of my sons and the long term beau of my youngest daughter. We followed Brazil, also now sadly departed. It was the most wonderful sporting event I have ever been to. A true festival of youth, so well organised by the Germans, whom with some degree of gratitude I have decided to support for the rest of the competition. The biergartens don't figure in these calculations of course.I even bought the appropriate baseball cap for the purpose. I don't know if you watched Brazil, but we were in the middle of that heaving mass of yellow, drums banging, samba girls in full costume and the native Brazilians so friendly and happy. You could easily recognise them for they knew all the words of their national anthem. It was totally joyous experience and worth all the considerable effort to make the trip.By time of the next one I shall be pushing 74, so I didn't go too soon.I was very reluctant right up to the off, but I allowed myself to be swept along by their energy and enthusiasm. We applied for tickets for Brazil in January 2005, and they duly arrived whilst we were in Spain at Easter time. As they say, all the rest was rock 'n roll.
As for England , what can one say? At 拢5m per year they couldn't even score from 12 yards, even given a 2 miss start by the opposition. Geoffrey Howe and broken bats spring, unbidden, into ones mind.