England endure spin examination
A desperately attritional day nevertheless had its own fascination as .
This was achieved not by sharp spin or awkward bounce, but through subtle variation which, in Vettori’s case in particular, was beautiful to watch.
His dismissal of Andrew Strauss was a classic example of left arm spin; tossing the ball well above the left-hander’s eye-line and daring him to drive. Strauss, who had barely moved onto the front foot at any stage of his workmanlike 43, was lured into the trap, drove expansively and was bowled.
His dismissal marked the start of the afternoon session in which a grand total of 56 runs were scored. He had clearly felt the pressure of returning to the team but, in truth, none of the batsmen found scoring runs easy.
There was an energy about New Zealand’s bowling that was so clearly missing from England’s attack and with Vettori setting intelligent and testing fields, everyone struggled - even Kevin Pietersen.
He hit his third ball for six, but as Vettori cut off his scoring opportunities by placing men in the deep, as well as close catchers to apply pressure before Pietersen hit him a low return catch.
At least Paul Collingwood and Tim Ambrose, the latter in his first Test innings, played with more fluency before the close but England are far from out of the woods yet. With Ryan Sidebottom, Steve Harmison and Monty Panesar to come, they must bat for as much as the fourth day as possible.
Danger will come if New Zealand have the chance to promote and set up a declaration which would leave England battling to save the game on the final afternoon.
The home side must be positive given that, in a three-match series, you have to grab any potentially match-winning opportunity that comes along, but with the pitch still entirely trustworthy, England’s tail-enders must make sure that they sell their wickets dearly.
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I think england did pretty well today. They were slow but they were concentrating. At the end of the innings the way ambrose and collingowood batted i think to my standard is brilliant. They may get out tomorrow for 350 or may be will go on and post 500 but all the batters contributed very well even though they failed to post a hundred. Let give them some space without crushing on them.
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Thanks for the report.
Colly and Ambrose really need to bat long tomorrow. I think England need to get to tea at least to be 'safe'. Even at that they may well have a couple of scary sessions to negotiate on day 5, especially if they continue at the current rate of scoring.
If they're out by lunch, however, they'll have a full day to bat on the 5th day and then NZ really would be favourites. Another final day collapse to witness? Let's hope not...
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Australia and India will hardly be quaking in their boots. England are now well and truly down the test team pecking order. Possibly can be partly attributed with the obsession with the 'ashes heroes'.....
Why oh why is Harmeson still getting a game? He doesnt like touring and doesnt seem to like cricket very much!!
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England could turn this pressure onto the kiwis tomorrow....one decent early partnership tomorrow of 80+ followed by a 9th or 10th wicket slog....get close to around 450 by tea....then one session bowling at the kiwis....if we could take 3 wickets cheaply before the close......well that would at least set up a very interesting final day !
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Great blog Aggers! It's so frustrating that are batsmen can't convert their starts... 42, 43, 63, it's not good enough if we want to challenge Australia
Sam J
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Obsession with Ashes heroes?
Only the media and the message board bleaters, surely.
Of that twelve Jones, Jones, Giles, and Trescothick have been replaced for good. Of the others, would you seriously leave out KP, Bell, Collingwood or Flintoff(if fit)? That leaves Vaughan, Strauss, Hoggard, and Harmison... and of those only Harmison has received any sort of 'special' treatment in my view and that's because at his best he is a world class performer. I'm not sure I agree with the amount of slack he has been given over the last 2 years but I can sort of understand the logic.
Are you suggesting that the next time we have a succesful team that it should be dismantled immediately? That doesn't seem sensible to me.
It will be interesting to see what the side looks like by the middle/end of next summer when there is more of an opportunity to call up replacements for players who are out of form or considered past their best.
As for India and, especially, Australia. They would be better served to worry about their own problems.
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well is still reckon that we can beat these no hope kiwis if we just stick to it ( and if half of them go down with sickness ). i had thought of going to new zealand to watch some exciting test match cricket, seems i did the right thing for a change and staid at home. putting aside the result i'm afraid that the picth is woeful, even if the purist dont like it cricket due mainly to the astralians has move on from when watching 200 runs in a day was worth paying the gate money, i know there still be a result in this game, but faster bouncy pitches is what the people who pay the gate fee are wanting to see. no wonder people want to watch 20-20 its exciting, the 50 over format must change to, i have no great ideas, but options must be tried in all the countless odi's that are played.
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Well done New Zealand - plenty of pressure from a second string side who know that England are on the ropes. England have a sub standard bunch of bowlers who seem unable to create anything on a good batting surface. Although that is the requirement of a 'test'. Suggest Broad as a replacement for Harmison, but don't really expect that alone to introduce the sort of lofty and brutal confidence that the Aussie's have and other teams are capable of. England's batters seem lacking in confidence and scared of another collapse. I would proffer that the low confidence in the team stems not just from their losing streak but also from the ineffective bowling with no new blood coming into that part of the team.
I would start picking players with a more aggressive approach to cricket. It's worth remembering that the confidence of Simon Jones in the team, complimented Flintoff's attitude and that had a powerful effect on the whole team. It made mediocre players look dangerous. Team management needs to grow some balls and so do some of the players.
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If we persist with the idea of picking who has been good in the past, we are never going to unearth good young talent early enough to make them into a great player,
eg get broad in there now for some good experience instead of harmison!
Also i must say what a poor pitch that has been prepared by the new zealanders, no pace, no bounce, no fun to watch!
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All credit to the Kiwis, a second spinner on a slow low wicket was a better choice than we made, and they both bowled well. Same pitch as they batted on, but we were made to work so much harder for our runs.
If only we could manage to make life difficult for the opposition as we make it for ourselves.
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If we persist with the idea of picking who has been good in the past, we are never going to unearth good young talent early enough to make them into a great player,
eg get broad in there now for some good experience instead of harmison!
Also i must say what a poor pitch that has been prepared by the new zealanders, no pace, no bounce, no fun to watch!
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Well done Aggers for giving the Kiwis some credit today.
Is your humble pie ripe enough to swallow.Probably not but your kind words leave me satisfied.
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Another pathetic performance by England. To score so few runs in a days cricket is negative, boring and not good for the game of cricket. At a time when test match cricket is under attack from that 20/20 rubbish, surely being postivie and attacking and playing attractive cricket is the way to go. Unfortunately England are trapped in a 1950s time warp and cant seem to manage the concept of playing attacking cricket. What a joke the England team are. I would rather watch Bangladesh play.
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Oh dear, oh dear, here we go again. England have simply deteriorated as a team over the past three years or so and what they need to do is some serious soul-searching. Before we know it, they will be 8th in the world Test rankings and they wouldn't know why! Have more confidence, guys and go out there and get them!
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let's not go overboard.
It's one match.
And England's slow scoring is perfectly understandable given
1. their batsmen are out of form
2. NZ have 470 on the board; It remains a rarity for anyone to win a test match after conceding 450 + in the first innings (adelaide notwithstanding)
3. The pitch has no pace (clearly on instuctions from the NZ hierarchy)
4. NZ have set defensive fields (with boundary men on both sides of the wicket to the spinners)...and bowled quite well.
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Credit has to be given to NZ bowlers who were excellent. However I think England's strategy was to out-think NZ and not be suckered into attack as they were in Sri Lanka.
Once England bowlers had failed to peg back NZ fine innings, then NZ bowlers had to perform equally badly to give us a chance on such a low, slow pitch.
In the one-day game the only response is a run-chase. But Test cricket has its great subtleties and allows a captain to respond according to the situation.
What a fascinating game. England played for occupation of the crease, keeping NZ in the field all day and making them work very hard for 4 wickets.
All the batsmen did a fine job, especially Pietersen playing entirely against this natural game and Bell, who was carrying the fatigue of the severe blow to his wrist.
No England collapse, no couple of wickets lost together.
Wonderful to see them play as a team and bury their egos.
More of the same on Day 4 please.
To be honest if pitches are prepared like this, then matches should be played attritionally. Maybe that will stop the practice.
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let's not go overboard.
It's one match.
And England's slow scoring is perfectly understandable given
1. their batsmen are out of form
2. NZ have 470 on the board; It remains a rarity for anyone to win a test match after conceding 450 + in the first innings (adelaide notwithstanding)
3. The pitch has no pace (clearly on instuctions from the NZ hierarchy)
4. NZ have set defensive fields (with boundary men on both sides of the wicket to the spinners)...and bowled quite well.
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let's not go overboard.
It's one match.
And England's slow scoring is perfectly understandable given
1. their batsmen are out of form
2. NZ have 470 on the board; It remains a rarity for anyone to win a test match after conceding 450 + in the first innings (adelaide notwithstanding)
3. The pitch has no pace (clearly on instuctions from the NZ hierarchy)
4. NZ have set defensive fields (with boundary men on both sides of the wicket to the spinners)...and bowled quite well.
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Easy to criticize from the arm chair or bed. If England's batsmen had thrown their wickets away they would have been slaughtered by the press - so they have developed an ultra cautious approach. I don't blame them for that. The chance of winning this game disappeared when the last 5 NZ wickets scored 280 runs!
However I do wonder why the 50 over team is so different to the Test team. This leads to discontinuity and apparently some players being ill-prepared.
Surely if you are a top bowler you should be able to adapt to the two main forms of the game? Confidence seems to be lacking. No wonder if you haven't played much before the Test series!
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The fact is that England have been exceptionally unlucky with injuries to the Ashes winning team of 2005. The loss of Jones and Flintoff was a massive blow, splitting a pace attack that needed to gel and continue to develop over a few more series. Injuries to Michael V and Harmison mystifying falling from a potentially world class destroyer to a rather embarrassing liability, could not have been predicted. Add to that the dithering over the wicket keeping position and it is not difficult to see why England are now occupying a much more lowly position in world cricket. The fact that England now seem to lack intensity, fitness and any semblance of the ability to bowl surely means fingers need to be pointed at the management and coaching staff. I see little positive impact from the new bowling coach and the ECB should take a huge amount of responsibility for letting Cooley back to Australia. Look what he has done in a relatively short time with a hitherto unheard of set of bowlers (relatively!) All in all it is a sad and distressing situation for everyone who cares about English cricket. It seems like we need to freshen up again already....even though we have a new coaching team onboard!!
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Now there's an interesting point, Steve Harmison...
Both he and Matthew Hoggard struggled badly in the first innings, their bowling would not have made them front line players in most County teams, so why were they picked for this Test Match?
I have no doubt that Hoggard will be back to brilliant again once he's got a few hundred overs in his boots, but he was injured most of last season and so is hopelessly out of form - but only because of lack of practice.
Similarly with Harmison, if England would just leave him alone to get his tattered game back together, he would be absolutely fine. If they start now, he could be back to great for that next ashes series, but it may be a bit late now they've totally destroyed him.
England had a hard day today, with some rather delightful bowling from the New Zealand spinners, and now, if all our bowlers had bowled as well as Ryan Sidebottom (a true example of a match fit player - also notice due to having bowled lots, he doesn't get injured every match, and recovers quickly from strains), we would've bowled New Zealand out for
Our bowling attack must be dealt with! That will raise morale in the England squad, and make the Batsmen's job a lot easier, I really feel for them in this match, against a well thought-out spin attack.
Let's see what 'The Monster' can do next!
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If england cannot bat in New Zealand condition then how they can survive in Sub-continent and offcourse how they can compete with the teams like India and sri lanka .I must admit england don't have the positive mindset which needs in test cricket. In the 2005 ashes series the way piterson batted against warne was fabulous with great positive. England batsman needs to be more positive while playing spin.They should moved their feet as Micheal Clarke and India's Laxman does frequently.
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If England have any real chance to retain the ashes next year they need to brushing very mediocre sides, like New Zealand, aside with ease. Early signs look like this isn't going to happen.
The debate about Harmison is surely over. I am like many England fans who are wishing him to rediscover he form of four years ago - it's not going to happen. Drop him for someone who wants to play for England.
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I agree, time to chop out the deadwood that have been tried too many times and failed. Time to blood the hungrier younger players with a bit of pride (Broad et al). Where has the pride and energy gone, playing for NZ is the pinnacle for the KIwi's and it permeats through their team. They give 100% at all times and regularly exceed their abilities.
The interview with Andy Flower this morning on Sky was embarrassing, the cricket is turgid and we are an awful team to watch at present. Moores out and get rid of the deadwood that aren't bothered about representing their country!
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If England have any real chance to retain the ashes next year they need to brushing very mediocre sides like New Zealand aside with ease. Early signs look like this isn't going to happen.
The debate about Harmison is surely over. I am like many England fans who are wishing him to rediscover he form of four years ago - it's not going to happen. Drop him for someone who wants to play for England.
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whatever happened from the progression from the Ashes team that was suppose to happen?
Is it wrong to blame the pitch for this woeful game of cricket, or can we blame the players? When two teams appear to be fine with the idea of playing for a draw can you really blame the doubters of the game, for erm doubting the game.
Sibo and Colly seemed like the only bowlers doing anything. Hoggard needs swing from the pitch and Monty needs a better field to bowl to, he had close slips for a bout an over then everyone went to the boundry, is that suppose to send fear to the batters? Would Warne or Murali allow such field placements? and I wonder if Vaughan would have set such fields to Giles.
As for Harmy, when he is at his best he is one of the worlds best but when on tour on a flat pitch... no words to describe it. He did nothing to change his approach to make something from the pitch, his follow through with his sencond foot was miles of the pitch, taking some pace of his delivery.
Would have liked to see Broad in there, not only is he improving as a bowler, his batting is useful in the tail(which looks like we are going to need).
Perhaps Aggers you could explain why we still have Hoggard as a nightwatchman? What purpose does he serve, and has he ever survived the night?
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England's batsmen , obviously lacking confidence are playing for a draw after conceding 280 NZ runs for the last 5 wickets. I don't blame them. They would get slaughtered by the press if they "threw their wickets away".
However, I do question the ability of top players to adapt to 50 Over and Test Cricket. It seems odd to have so-called specialist players for the tip & run version of the game.
This leads to players being "under-cooked". If you are a top bowler you should be able to play both forms.
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The contrast between Monty Panesar and the New Zealand spinners is stark. Monty Panesar was one of the most exciting talents that England have unearthed in years, but he seems to have diminished enormously as a cricketer over the last 18 months. 18 months ago he was the undisputed star of the side, now you have to think that his place is coming under increasing threat from Adil Rashid and, on this tour, the almost disappeared Graeme Swann.
You can carry one bowler and try to play him back into form (in 2004 it was Jimmy Anderson, in 2003 it was Ashley Giles), but right now we have several bowlers who are struggling for form at the same time in a 4-man attack rather than the 5-man attack of the past, giving less room for manoeuvre.
In 2004 and 2005 England's pacemen hunted as a pack, with Harmison, Hoggard, Flintoff and Jones/Anderson supporting each other. Now, the unit has been so severely disrupted that a bowler like Steve Harmison who took confidence from being part of a solid unit seems utterly unable to cope. Matthew Hoggard seems seriously diminished after his long lay-off and the cohesion is not there.
It's not that Harmison, Hoggard and Panesar are not good bowlers. The problem is that they are not clicking as a unit. I am most worried about Monty as he was expected to be the future and be the lynchpin of the attack for 10 or more years. Right now I would wonder seriously if he'll even be the first-choice spinner next winter. Matthew Hoggard is, let's face it, getting to the end of his career and will need to be replaced soon. There are potential replacements for Steve Harmison, but it is alarming to see a young player like Panesar get so completely outbowled series after series having made such an impact initially.
Come South Africa next summer, Ryan Sidebottom may just be the only survivor of this attack.
After this Test series there needs to be some real soul-searching. Chris Tremlett seems to be made of glass and Jimmy Anderson is constantly up and down. Liam Plunkett and Sajid Mahmood have not reacted as positively as one would have hoped to being dropped, but there are still some quality pacemen out there. Maybe its time to throw in Alan Richardson, although he will only be playing at top level for, at most 2 more years. If that is unacceptable, bring back Liam Plunkett and tell him that he has the summer to make the number 8 spot his.
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A great day of cricket - a real contest between bat and ball.
I am sure there will be a lot of comments complaining about England's lack of aggression. But as Pietersen said, with England trailing by such a huge margin, wicket-preservation today was far more important than hitting quick runs.
England still have a way to go, but as long as they do not get skittled out too quickly tomorrow morning, a draw still looks the most likely option...
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I am with KP on this one, he rates his knock as he is proud of & I think he should be, its not the England players fault they are playing on a lifeless pitch, he has been constantly accused of not being a "team" player, well his knock yesterday has ensured the draw.
We have been spoilt over the last 10 years of 3/4 runs an over average per innings, this track is a throwback to the old days, for better or worse.
I have taken a weeks holiday to watch this first test, I haven't regretted a second of it, its cricket for the patient purist.
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If we persist with the idea of picking who has been good in the past, we are never going to unearth good young talent early enough to make them into a great player,
eg get broad in there now for some good experience instead of harmison!
Also i must say what a poor pitch that has been prepared by the new zealanders, no pace, no bounce, no fun to watch!
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England's batsmen , obviously lacking confidence are playing for a draw after conceding 280 NZ runs for the last 5 wickets. I don't blame them. They would get slaughtered by the press if they "threw their wickets away".
However, I do question the ability of top players to adapt to 50 Over and Test Cricket. It seems odd to have so-called specialist players for the tip & run version of the game.
This leads to players being "under-cooked". If you are a top bowler you should be able to play both forms.
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Do you think Harmison would have played if Tremlett had not gone home? And when was the last time a test team batted through an entire day's play for less than 200 runs without being dismissed?!
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Completely agree. While the england attack are short of at least one key wicket taker we will never be competitive with the likes of Australia. Even if we bat well, I just dont see where the wickets are going to come from. Harmison lost it some time ago and should never have been in the team. Hoggard isnt having the best of times most likely due to the lack of match practice. Monty just isnt good enough to trouble the better batsmen.
Sidebottom seems to be the most consistent but only claims wickets on a good day. He is a useful addition to an attack, but isnt good enough to be relied upon as the main threat.
I just hope that Hoggard comes good, and Broad is brought in and bowls well. If not, we are doomed for this test series.
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Response to Tim (post 3)
And when was the last time that India won a test series in NZ? (When did India actually last play a test in NZ? Answers on a postcard please)The kiwis at home are not easily beaten. Over what is in effect a 15 day test between the two teams, it seems a bit premature to write England off. NZ are playing well but may struggle to sustain it, England are below par and should improve.
Leave all talk of the Ashes alone. I'm sure Australia will not be thinking about anything other than how to beat India when they tour there later in the year.
Bring on Day 4. Go Colly!!!!!
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Complaints when NZ had seaming green tops.... now complaints about it being dry, slow and Low ("at the request of NZ's hierachy")...please.
There will be lots of pace and bounce at Napier and a bit of seam and movement in Wellington. Something for everybody.
Save the conspiracy theories till after the series has finished.
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When you concede 280 runs for the last 5 wickets you look for a draw.
I can't blame the batsmen for being ultra cautious. They would be slaughtered in the media ( and here) for "throwing away their wickets".
However, I do wonder at the ability of England's top players to adapt to conditions and specifically to play the "Tip & Run " 50 over version and then convert to Test cricket.
Really top class International players seem to be able to manage both forms and hence are "in form" when it comes to the Test series. Hence poor form by Harmison & Hoggard and some batsmen struggling to find their touch.
Conclusion: bowlers should be able to "contain" and "strike". Batsmen should be able to pick up singles and keep the score moving in BOTH forms of the game. So far Sidebottom and Collingwood are demonstrating that essential flexibility.
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I think the problem with England's defensive batting style is that it ends up causing more trouble for the batsmen than if they simply played aggressively from the off. It's obviously not a good idea to get out to stupid shots, but if you constantly play off the back foot, it becomes easier for the bowlers to pin you down and eventually, to wear you down.
Pietersen's dismissal was unfortunate, although it was a brilliant catch on Vettori's part. However Strauss should've been more considered. Frankly I think the most serious mistake was to send HOggard in as nightwatchman.
On the plus side, if Ambrose keeps up his current form behind the stumps, our keeper dilemma will be resolved.
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I think the problem with England's defensive batting style is that it ends up causing more trouble for the batsmen than if they simply played aggressively from the off. It's obviously not a good idea to get out to stupid shots, but if you constantly play off the back foot, it becomes easier for the bowlers to pin you down and eventually, to wear you down.
Pietersen's dismissal was unfortunate, although it was a brilliant catch on Vettori's part. However Strauss should've been more considered. Frankly I think the most serious mistake was to send Hoggard in as nightwatchman.
On the plus side, if Ambrose keeps up his current form behind the stumps, our keeper dilemma will be resolved.
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Test cricket seems to be facing a down turn in interest outside England and Australia. With matches like this it's not hard to see why. New Zealand have provided a playing surface that suits their limited bowling attack (which should mean that they'll achieve a draw rather than a defeat) but at what price? The bigger picture is that the paying public want to be entertained and more importantly children need to be captivated by the game. This game will achieve neither..
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To brush aside 'very mediocre sides like New Zealand' you need to be somewhat better than mediocre yourself. England have not been awful in this match but barring a complete collapse in New Zealand's second innings they haven't bowled well enough or scored quickly enough to force a result in their favour. I expect both England's batting and bowling to perform a lot better in more favourable conditions in Wellington but it will certainly be no walkover.
Any chance of an England victory in the Ashes relies more on the continued decline of the Australian team rather than any hope that England can suddenly turn out a string of world-class performances.
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It seems to me that England cannot win with some fans whatever they do. If they had tried to bat attackingly and collapsed they would have received no end of criticism. They bat sensibly with a view of not losing the game and still they get stick. I must admit that one thing which worries me is the number of times batsmen get in and settled but fail to convert useful scores into centuries. As to the bowlers Harmison seems to be the focus of attention every series. He consistently fails to deliver and his time must be over. Anderson is not consistent and give runs away too easily. I just do not see where the next group of fast bowlers will be coming from. A lot is made of Panesar but he is nowhere near the same class as Vettori. Perhaps with the available players we expect too much from an England side.
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Bring back Mahmood!
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CRICKET COMMENT
When you concede 280 runs for the last 5 wickets you look for a draw.
I can't blame the batsmen for being ultra cautious. They would be slaughtered in the media ( and here) for "throwing away their wickets".
However, I do wonder at the ability of England's top players to adapt to conditions and specifically to play the "Tip & Run " 50 over version and then convert to Test cricket.
Really top class International players seem to be able to manage both forms and hence are "in form" when it comes to the Test series. Hence poor form by Harmison & Hoggard and some batsmen struggling to find their touch.
Conclusion: bowlers should be able to "contain" and "strike". Batsmen should be able to pick up singles and keep the score moving in BOTH forms of the game. So far Sidebottom and Collingwood are demonstrating that essential flexibility.
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with regards to englands batting, strauss is clearly way out of form. the problem for england is not just what it means in terms of strauss's performance, but also the pressure it puts on other batsmen. it doesn't help any batting partership when only one man is getting the runs. Although i don't think owais shah is necessarily the best man to come in for england, he is clearly a lot better than strauss at the moment
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What a bore this is. Come on England this is New Zealand for pity's sake. What on earth are you doing plodding around for 2 runs an over? Are we expecting to win from here?
Can anyone explain why Harmisson is in the side? He has done nothing for the last two years and looks unlikely to do so.
English cricket is going in a terminal reverse if we are not careful.
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Haa back to test matches as I remember them!!
Take your time and score some runs!! Bring back Boycott!
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Yet again England are in a muddle. Why do we always seem terrified of playing two spinners in our team when the pitch is lifeless? We'd rather have our (out of touch, fitness and condition Sidebottom aside) run in all day for no reward. I don't think Swann is international class but then again is Patel?
Secondly will be interestig to see how Ian Bell does now he's been forced down the order due to Strauss re-inclusion. Whilst Strauss hit a good ton in the warm up game I can't help thinking we are trying to be a bit like our National Footie team by playing our best players rather than the best team. Granted Bell has given away his wicket at times at no 3 and not got the big 100 we want but he has been Englands most consistent batsemn over the last 18mths. Looks like it's up to Collingwood again to get us out the mess!
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If New Zealand are to compete with the likes of Australia then they should be brushing aside mediocre sides like England with ease. The fact they are struggling to beat a bunch of no-hopers really is worrying. If they got to play more test cricket then I'm sure they would wrap this up on the 4th day.
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Oh the pitch is bad, Its not fast ( heaven only knows why NZ would produce a fast pitch when they don't have fast bowlers?) No Bounce?? I'm sure I saw Mills put in a few Bouncers. So what if NZ have produced a pitch to suit their bowlers or maybe because its England they should produce pitches that suit Englands Bowlers?? Would England produce a Spinners wicket when India tour? or a hard fast wicket when Aussie /Windies tour?
Its lifeless, well surely the batsmen should be getting good scores.
NZ seem to be getting what they know from the pitch, Yeah the bowlers have to work for the wickets.....but surely thay have too.
England, have to find a Gilcrist, have to find a McCullum, no you don't, England have to find someone that would be themselves. And stop making excuses. Maybe England are not as good as they think they are. Maybe NZ aren't as bad as everyone knows they are? Or maybe NZ should just roll over. How dare these colonial outcasts think that they can compeate with the Mighty England, Its just not Cricket
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I have a very similar name as England's lanky underachiever and while it was great to bask in his reflected glory in 2004 and to a certain extent 2005 (people used to shout bowling harmy! at me at work and in the pub) it is now just downright embarrassing (they just shout "You're rubbish!" & worse I can tell you). Still at least I'm better off than my mate Richard Head.
Does anyone else suffer from having a name that sounds like a former legend that is now a pale imitation of his former self?
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Don`t write off NZ - it was always on the cards they were going to get to 450 plsu after Day One. They have got 2 players in McCullum and Vettori who are better than anything we have at the moment. Even KP can`t post the big scores of old. We can`t keep blaming injuries - every team gets them. The harsh reality is the current crop are not good enough. The bowling is just woeful and not capable of taking 20 wickets in Test cricket. Bell, Collingwood, Pietersen Sidebottom, Hoggard, Panesar, Cook aside, I think the jury`s out. The managerial side is a joke - a bunch of yes men who never eally made it. How many more Sussex players can Moores get in the England. Get somebody in with the Nasser spirit. Rant Over.
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Nathan from post 30 wrote - "Also i must say what a poor pitch that has been prepared by the new zealanders, no pace, no bounce, no fun to watch"
As a New Zealander I thought it was quite good fun watching NZ put on 470 in the 1st innings, and then watching England struggle to score more than 2.15 runs per over on day two.
A lot of people were writing the kiwis off in the test matches because we all know how good this English test team is (seemingly forgetting it's not 2005 anymore) and it's good to see an interesting contest.
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For Gods sake give it a rest. New Zealand spinners are good bowlers with the skipper high class but you cannot compare how Monty bowled to them.
There seamers applied pressure at the other end bowling quicker and more accuratly than ours and this gave the Kiwi spinners the chance to tie England up.
With Hoggard and harmy bowling dross on the first day Monty was asked to play a restricting roll and that he did.
He bowled 37 overs in the first day and a half and you cannot expect any finger spinner to cause much trouble with the back up his senior seam bowlers gave him.
He shouldnt have needed to bowl all those overs but the seamers let England down.
Knock the seamers on bowling on the first day of a test not an attacking spinner who's bread and butter should be earned from the 3rd day on.
Get a grip you guys, Seamers bowl better Monty comes to the party!!
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For a man "right out of form" Andrew Strauss has made a heck of a lot of runs in his last two innings!
The other thing that is noticeable is that the "out of form" Strauss scored faster than: Cook, Vaughan, Pietersen and Bell, while Collingwood was about half a run per hundred balls faster. Only Tim Ambrose (by 2 runs per hundred balls) has scored significantly faster than Andrew Strauss.
If you are going to criticise someone (this applies to various posters, not to Jon Agnew), at least do it with some minimal justification and based on facts.
What is noticeable is that so far only Matthew Hoggard has scored less than 23, but only Michael Vaughan has passed 60. That you can criticise! The difference between the New Zealand total and the likely England total is the fact that two New Zealand batsmen went on to make a big score.
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As a Kiwi cricket fan, reading through some of these comments are quite amusing. When will English fans wake up to the fact that a) England is not a test powerhouse and b) New Zealand are not a mediocre team. Last time I checked England were 5th in the test rankings, and New Zealand were 7th. This is hardly a huge chasm in form and class, and bear in mind this is partly due to the fact that this is only our 5th test since January 2007! We are far short of test match fitness, yet you wouldn't think it judging from how this test has panned out so far.
To think England could head to NZ and expect to roll over us 3-0 can only be described as highly arrogant. The only team who has ever been able to do that is Australia in 2000 and 2005, and we know how good those teams were. We have a fantastic home record, and despite our limited player resources we punch far above our weight - this is an immutable fact of world cricket and should be respected.
Furthermore, how can this pitch be described as "woeful"? We scored 470 at over 3 an over, and our number 8 Dan Vettori scored 88 at about a 65 strike rate. Doesn't seem that bad to me? Ross Taylor played some brilliant cover drives and straight drives throughout his innings, hardly the mark of a terribly slow pitch, and scored his runs at well over 50 per 100 balls. Granted it's not coming onto the bat like a first day WACA pitch, but it's hardly a sub continent dust bowl, which England should actually be used to given their recent visits to that part of the world.
I'm sorry but credit has be given here to the fantastically accurate bowling and shrewd field placings by Vettori. Solely blaming the pitch for scoring at 2 an over is laughable. It is obvious to anyone that England have been instructed (and god knows why) to play ultra defensive and eschew their natural game. There were still over 3 and a half days left when they started batting, yet right from the outset have played for a draw, and we have utilised that defensive mindset by turning the screws.
KP's innings was admirable in its restraint, however it a shame such a naturally attacking player had to curb his natural instincts so early in the test. Such negative tactics are what has turned this game into a war of attrition, not the pitch.
And will people stop bleating about how this is nothing like 20/20 - get over it please! Any cricket purist worth his salt should appreciate the grinding nature of this test - this is real cricket, not hit and miss. 20/20 is a slogathon, and has its place, but it is not real cricket in my mind. 20/20 has none of the subtle nuances and shifts that test cricket has. That is why it is the ultimate form of the game. To expect every pitch to be able to provide 300+ runs a day and give the batsmen an easy ride isn't going to happen. You play to the conditions, and the beauty of test cricket is that over a long period of time the match takes shape.
This test will last the full distance, and England batting to save the game on the 5th day will be enthralling to watch. Enjoy it for what it is.
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Well, it appears that every one is really down on the English performance. One thing, that has yet to be to acknowledged, is that the Illford 2nd II is still performing well with their 'pop-gun' bowling attack, well above expectation, as always !! Mike Gatting, eat ya heart out !!
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For a man "right out of form" Andrew Strauss has made a heck of a lot of runs in his last two innings!
The other thing that is noticeable is that the "out of form" Strauss scored faster than: Cook, Vaughan, Pietersen and Bell, while Collingwood was about half a run per hundred balls faster. Only Tim Ambrose (by 2 runs per hundred balls) has scored significantly faster than Andrew Strauss.
If you are going to criticise someone (this applies to various posters, not to Jon Agnew), at least do it with some minimal justification and based on facts.
What is noticeable is that so far only Matthew Hoggard has scored less than 23, but only Michael Vaughan has passed 60. That you can criticise! The difference between the New Zealand total and the likely England total is the fact that two New Zealand batsmen went on to make a big score.
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If this test ends up in a draw (or even an English loss) surely it’s due to England’s negative batting and not the pitch.
NZ faced 138.3 overs for their 470 at 3.39 per over.
England have faced 134 overs for 286 at 2.13 per over.
The pitch has played quite consistently over the three days so you can’t argue that the slower run rate is down to the conditions.
NZ have bowled well, but then they’ve been allowed to bowl well as none of the English batsmen have taken to them. They certainly haven’t put any pressure on the NZ bowlers and the lack of invention has allowed Vettori to set whatever field he likes.
If the English batsmen scored at the same modest rate that NZ did then they may have lost another wicket or two but they would now be on 450 runs (for 8).
Thus with two days to go any result would still be possible. As it stands the way England have batted means the only result that isn’t possible (unless a miracle occurs) is an England win.
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Just posted this on the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ website. Such a load a dross on the website, thought I'd better set them straight!
As a Kiwi cricket fan, reading through some of these comments are quite amusing. When will English fans wake up to the fact that a) England is not a test powerhouse and b) New Zealand are not a mediocre team. Last time I checked England were 5th in the test rankings, and New Zealand were 7th. This is hardly a huge chasm in form and class, and bear in mind this is partly due to the fact that this is only our 5th test since January 2007! We are far short of test match fitness, yet you wouldn't think it judging from how this test has panned out so far.
To think England could head to NZ and expect to roll over us 3-0 can only be described as highly arrogant. The only team who has ever been able to do that is Australia in 2000 and 2005, and we know how good those teams were. We have a fantastic home record, and despite our limited player resources we punch far above our weight - this is an immutable fact of world cricket and should be respected.
Furthermore, how can this pitch be described as "woeful"? We scored 470 at over 3 an over, and our number 8 Dan Vettori scored 88 at about a 65 strike rate. Doesn't seem that bad to me? Ross Taylor played some brilliant cover drives and straight drives throughout his innings, hardly the mark of a terribly slow pitch, and scored his runs at well over 50 per 100 balls. Granted it's not coming onto the bat like a first day WACA pitch, but it's hardly a sub continent dust bowl, which England should actually be used to given their recent visits to that part of the world.
I'm sorry but credit has be given here to the fantastically accurate bowling and shrewd field placings by Vettori. Solely blaming the pitch for scoring at 2 an over is laughable. It is obvious to anyone that England have been instructed (and god knows why) to play ultra defensive and eschew their natural game. There were still over 3 and a half days left when they started batting, yet right from the outset have played for a draw, and we have utilised that defensive mindset by turning the screws.
KP's innings was admirable in its restraint, however it a shame such a naturally attacking player had to curb his natural instincts so early in the test. Such negative tactics are what has turned this game into a war of attrition, not the pitch.
And will people stop bleating about how this is nothing like 20/20 - get over it please! Any cricket purist worth his salt should appreciate the grinding nature of this test - this is real cricket, not hit and miss. 20/20 is a slogathon, and has its place, but it is not real cricket in my mind. 20/20 has none of the subtle nuances and shifts that test cricket has. That is why it is the ultimate form of the game. To expect every pitch to be able to provide 300+ runs a day and give the batsmen an easy ride isn't going to happen. You play to the conditions, and the beauty of test cricket is that over a long period of time the match takes shape.
This test will last the full distance, and England batting to save the game on the 5th day will be enthralling to watch. Enjoy it for what it is, good old fashioned test cricket.
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The day the team management, press and fans stop living in the past glory of the Ashes win and give up the idea of somehow reconstituting that winning team will be the beginning of a new era in English cricket. The current team has a lot of talent but they are never free to grow out of this Ashes hangover. Every tour seems to start and end with laments of how England cannot field their best team due to injuries. It has now been three years - get over it - pick your best team and back them to win.
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We did not decide to bat slowly today..... Vaughan decided we could not win the test on the 2nd morning. He has no confiedence in his bowling attack. Hence his decision to bowl an out of form hoggard and harmisson into some kind of form. Hopefully to reap the rewards on more suitable pitches in the next two tests. Having said this, Vaughan's captaincy has to be questioned. He has no problem standing out front after games answering questions with the usual "we shall learn from this" but during the game he seems lost with what to do. His decisions seem to go totally against the bowlers body langauge. If harmisson wants to walk off the pitch and hide, he should be allowed to do so. Not made to embarress himself further. Storys of great men that have fallen and then rose once again to great hieghts are few and far between. those who have, have gone away and sorted themselves out quietly. None have done so in full glare of the english press. As for Monty, he came into the team a happy carefree bowler. Now he seems to bowl flatter and more defensivly. Fields are dropped to the boundry almost immediatly.
To sum up, does anybody think the England team are enjoying playing?. The Newzealand team certainly appear so. Vettorri is already teaching Vaughan a lesson.
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As a Kiwi cricket fan, reading through some of these comments are quite amusing. When will English fans wake up to the fact that a) England is not a test powerhouse and b) New Zealand are not a mediocre team. Last time I checked England were 5th in the test rankings, and New Zealand were 7th. This is hardly a huge chasm in form and class, and bear in mind this is partly due to the fact that this is only our 5th test since January 2007! We are far short of test match fitness, yet you wouldn't think it judging from how this test has panned out so far.
To think England could head to NZ and expect to roll over us 3-0 can only be described as highly arrogant. The only team who has ever been able to do that is Australia in 2000 and 2005, and we know how good those teams were. We have a fantastic home record, and despite our limited player resources we punch far above our weight - this is an immutable fact of world cricket and should be respected.
Furthermore, how can this pitch be described as "woeful"? We scored 470 at over 3 an over, and our number 8 Dan Vettori scored 88 at about a 65 strike rate. Doesn't seem that bad to me? Ross Taylor played some brilliant cover drives and straight drives throughout his innings, hardly the mark of a terribly slow pitch, and scored his runs at well over 50 per 100 balls. Granted it's not coming onto the bat like a first day WACA pitch, but it's hardly a sub continent dust bowl, which England should actually be used to given their recent visits to that part of the world.
I'm sorry but credit has be given here to the fantastically accurate bowling and shrewd field placings by Vettori. Solely blaming the pitch for scoring at 2 an over is laughable. It is obvious to anyone that England have been instructed (and god knows why) to play ultra defensive and eschew their natural game. There were still over 3 and a half days left when they started batting, yet right from the outset have played for a draw, and we have utilised that defensive mindset by turning the screws.
KP's innings was admirable in its restraint, however it a shame such a naturally attacking player had to curb his natural instincts so early in the test. Such negative tactics are what has turned this game into a war of attrition, not the pitch.
And will people stop bleating about how this is nothing like 20/20 - get over it please! Any cricket purist worth his salt should appreciate the grinding nature of this test - this is real cricket, not hit and miss. 20/20 is a slogathon, and has its place, but it is not real cricket in my mind. 20/20 has none of the subtle nuances and shifts that test cricket has. That is why it is the ultimate form of the game. To expect every pitch to be able to provide 300+ runs a day and give the batsmen an easy ride isn't going to happen. You play to the conditions, and the beauty of test cricket is that over a long period of time the match takes shape.
This test will last the full distance, and England batting to save the game on the 5th day will be enthralling to watch. Enjoy it for what it is, good old fashioned test cricket.
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I love the way English fans divert the attention away from their sad, under-performing team by blaiming the pitch, the preparation, the proliferation of 20/20. What will it be next, the sky was too blue? The grass felt a bit soft?
New Zealand scored at over 3 throughout their innings on this so-called "bad" pitch. McCullum blasted his way to 50. Even Millsy scored 5 fours in his short innings.
No, the truth is that the English batsmen have made the pitch look bad through their own negative approach and inability to play spin. Poor.
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We did not decide to bat slowly today..... Vaughan decided we could not win the test on the 2nd morning. He has no confiedence in his bowling attack. Hence his decision to bowl an out of form hoggard and harmisson into some kind of form. Hopefully to reap the rewards on more suitable pitches in the next two tests. Having said this, Vaughan's captaincy has to be questioned. He has no problem standing out front after games answering questions with the usual "we shall learn from this" but during the game he seems lost with what to do. His decisions seem to go totally against the bowlers body langauge. If harmisson wants to walk off the pitch and hide, he should be allowed to do so. Not made to embarress himself further. Storys of great men that have fallen and then rose once again to great hieghts are few and far between. those who have, have gone away and sorted themselves out quietly. None have done so in full glare of the english press. As for Monty, he came into the team a happy carefree bowler. Now he seems to bowl flatter and more defensivly. Fielders are dropped to the boundry almost immediatly.
To sum up, does anybody think the England team are enjoying playing?. The Newzealand team certainly appear so. Vettorri is already teaching Vaughan a lesson.
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I'm starting to think England's innings was perfectly paced!
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I think England's innings was OK, some good batting. Again noone getting the big score to get England on par.
Ryan Sidebottom. What cam I say. Sensational. On Fire. 9 Wickets for the match so far. I really shows how out of form Hoggard is, and Harmison. 2 wickets between them. Catching has been brilliant, especially Cooke's.
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Well another sad, boring incompetant display by a set of players who are stealing a living from the game of cricket.
Swop the team for the A team right now and lets get younger more focussed people on board NOW rather than waiting for them to grow too old.
English sportsmen need to realise that England is just a small island off the caost of Europe and not the centre of the universe. This applies to the English football team also.
I was proud to be English but no more, I cant wait to emigrate.
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