England attack gets back on track
Napier: day four of third Test - It required patience, but England finally broke the back of New Zealand’s resistance after tea and are set up to take the series on the final day.
With the new ball only two overs old, and just to come before the tail, it seems unthinkable that New Zealand could possibly survive another 90 overs.
bowled a lovely, controlling spell in which he found a little more help than we anticipated. The end he preferred meant that one of the fast bowlers had to slog it out into the wind, and although this was not a Wellington hurricane, was still a sterling effort - particularly as James Anderson had, once again, conceded five runs per over.
, and will be eyeing up a swift return at his expense. Sidebottom, Hoggard, Flintoff, Broad and Panesar: a strong attack and an improved tail - but which batsman would you drop?
In a series in which the overall quality of cricket has been poor, the emergence of Broad - and New Zealand's - has been particularly welcome.
Broad has a terrific attitude - he is a chip off the old block, I always said his dad should have been a fast bowler! - and he has ambition. He bowled a lot of short stuff today, presumably under orders, and this paid off when Mathew Sinclair and Grant Elliott both played shots they will want to forget.
Panesar found just enough turn and uneven bounce to make him awkward. Matthew Bell heaved a short ball to deep square leg after Jamie How was correctly given out lbw on the front foot, and it was Monty who created the emotional moment of the day.
, in his final innings, had proceeded with typical grace to 66 before he unwisely attempted to dabble Panesar towards point. The ball found the edge of his bat, Tim Ambrose clung to the catch, and Fleming walked off to a genuinely warm and heartfelt ovation.
His wife dabbed away a tear from behind her sunglasses, and he was gone. An immensely liked and respected man - and a batsman I would pay good money to watch.
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Broad has showed the hunger,attitude and skill to cut it at Test level cricket. He shows a lot of promise and will get better.
I look forward to a England victory.
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Well written article, particularly about the poor quality of cricket played by both teams in this series. With McCullum still there and the pitch perfect for batting, I will not be surprised if NZ give England a real fight on the last day.
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Aggers
Team for Lord's looks clear to me. Freddie in for Anderson. That's it.
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You Pomis suck so much. You really need to find better fast bowlers than your existing ones, to have a youngen like Broad bowling with limited County experience so early on is like throwing someone from Kindergarden into their final scool exams. I must say Panesar is improving every game but is definately no Warne and his fielding is well, what can I say. I think your only player of substance is Pieterson and flintoff (for ODI). The rest, yes Harmy, just "fill the space"
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in answer to the question....
which batsmen would you drop?
Stauss.... obviously. One swallow does not make a summer, and runs against New Zealand should be regarded as difficult as scoring against a second eleven attack.
I'd also bring in Ramprakash, but thats another debate!!
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If Flintoff was fit for Lords, i'd be inclined to still drop Strauss but it is a difficult one. Whoever is dropped it will be nice to have a big shot player back in the team who can move the score along at a rate of nots. I think the balance of the batting line up is wrong rather than the players being bad players. We're missing trescothick as well, who would start the innings at a blistering pace. Anyway, the signs of improvement are there and I think everyone should stride forward with a bit more confidence.. Come on England!
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"Sidebottom, Hoggard, Flintoff, Broad and Panesar: a strong attack and an improved tail - but which batsman would you drop?"
Very strong attack that one Aggers good call.
A season in county Cricket for Plunkett, Harmmison, Anderson (again) and the fully fit Simon Jones means that we look ok in the bowling department.
Batting wise, can we drop either player who has scored a century in this game and setup a now likely series win?
Ian Bell could be a world beater, he has all the shots, the technique and everyone knows it except him it seems.
Bell would get my nod to keep his place ahead of Strauss on the return of Lord Flintoff. He needs to learn some of the KP swagger and convert his starts into big scores.
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I would drop Vaughan for Flintoff, with Collingwood as Captain, once Freddies fitness is confirmed. These 2 winter series have been too far for Vaughan both as captain & batter. Best he hands over before spoiling his reputation
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Stephen Fleming scored yet another half century in this Test match in the process raising his Test average to plus forty. One would really feel sorry to see such a fine cricketer wanting to bid farewell to international cricket.
Monty has taken charge of the situation and with Broad has brought England on the threshold to success. But as old timers would remind us, one has to wait till the last ball is bowled in the Gentleman's Game.
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Just one more day of an exceptionally dull series to go.
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Okay, the Australians ARE the best but does this particular contributor (2) have to be so smug about it?
Just asking.
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Can we not just manage with the 4 bowlers - Flintoff, Sidebottom, Broad and Panesar? Anderson's failure doesn't justify Hoggard's return - this is assuming Flintoff is fully fit to bowl - I know the batsmen have underperformed for while, but Flintoff isn't good enough to bat at 6.
Team for first Test at home:
Cook
Strauss
Bell
Vaughan
Pietersen
Collingwood
Flintoff
Ambrose
Broad
Sidebottom (best no10 in the world?)
Panesar
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Maybe we do suck Mr Australian, but at least we can spell 'school', 'definitely', 'Pietersen' and indeed 'Poms' correctly. And besides, I actually think we'll be just fine come next summer.
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There is an (somewhat old-fashioned) assumption in this article that if Flintoff comes back, he will bat at six. And England will play five bowlers.
I think the assumption should be that Flintoff can only come back if he can operate as one of a four man bowling attack.
Flintoff has only sporadically batted to the level of a test number six.
Every side in world cricket plays six batsmen in test cricket. Why is it rational to think that England can manage where other countries do not?
And England's tail is too long.
A 7- 11 of Flintoff, Ambrose, Broad, Hoggard and Panesar is the best option in my opinion...................
SO LONG AS Flintoff and Hoggard can prove fitness, form and dedication. (I think Hoggard had become a little complacent)
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To the question which batsman would you drop, you'd have to say that Vaughan on his batting is really not doing enough to justify his place. Strauss saved his bacon but will need some more good scores to cementhis place again. It will be interesting to see if Flintoff is finally it again, if so my team for first Test in May:
Cook
Strauss
Pietersen
Bell
Collingwood (capt)
Ambrose
Rashid
Broad
Flintoff
Sidebottom
Hoggard
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"Panesar... is definately(sic) no Warne"
Good point - he can't be any good based on that criteria.
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RE: Australian
whats this Australian other thasn Lee you think your bowling attack is that good i'll grant your batting line up is pretty good but hardly a fearsome bowling unit compared to years gone by.
By the way Warne has retired and you must admit other than his slip fielding Warnes was not the most mobile in field now was he.
I think you might need to start worrying not that long til the ashes you know
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what about sidebottom - our best bowler over the past 12 months??
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Glad to see two bowlers [Sidey and Broad] emerging with some heart and aggression. Anderson may have bolwed poorly but should be persisted with, we need to put faith in these types of players rather than having them one game away from omission.
Have thoroughly enjoyed TMS this winter Aggers, plenty of laughs and incisive comment. Geoffrey Boycott on top form too - brilliant stuff.
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Michael, I agree with you that if Flintoff comes back it should be for a bowler not a batsman, but did you really mean to drop Sidebottom after he had taken twice as many wickets as any other bowler in this series? Or did you just forget about him?
I would bring Flintoff in for Anderson and see how it went. If he can't bowl 20 effective overs a day he will have to score enough runs to justify a move up to number 6.
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I for one certainly think that hoggard has recieved very harsh criticism lately, he has been out most consitent bowler for the past 5 years and to drop him after one test and almost completely writing off a return to test cricket seems very harsh to me!
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I for one certainly think that hoggard has recieved very harsh criticism lately, he has been out most consitent bowler for the past 5 years and to drop him after one test and almost completely writing off a return to test cricket seems very harsh to me!
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Freddie has to come in as a full time bowler.His batting is no 7 at best at the mo.Replace Anderson with Freddie (if fully fit)and I'd be looking for a Vaughan replacement.Strauss should open if selected,or some new blood to try out vs NZ at home could include Carberry,Denly.
But we need to plan for life without Vaughan as I dont think he can last til the Ashes.
Broad shows youthfulness and industry,Anderson erratic.
I agree with many other posters that despite central contracts players should get out with their counties as much as possible.
England generally got better as the series progressed-obviously the non ODI players were rusty for 1st Test.
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Collingwood is no captain. If you are dropping Vaughan then go for Strauss.
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I'm afraid that Mr Glass's earlier comment that the place for fifth batsmen should be between Bell and Strauss is utterly absurd. Bell should simply not be in that equation he has proved time after time that he is a high class test player! He has excellent technique and many of the other batsmen (such as Strauss) should study his technique and erase their many floors as test batsmen. Silly comment, are you a selector?
Broad and Sidebottom, two great Notts players!!!
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Good one Andy W - Panesar takes 3 wickets on Day 4 and possibly may add to that tomorrow (on an unhelpful pitch) and you would drop him come May for the next Test.
Way to go -bring 'em in and ship ,em out , that sounds a good stratagy for a winning team.
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I agree with the people on here that say Flinoff can't bat at 6 - he has only a few times showed he is a test match quality number 6 - but in saying that come May 15th i dont think there is anyway you can play Flintoff in a 4 man bowling attack - Flintoff, Broad, Sidey, Monty. Due to the possibility of him breaking down again. You lot have to realise he has only bowled 9 competitive overs since he has come back and will only have 1 months county cricket before the 1st test.
Therefore i think it is an ideal time for the following considering NZ are probably going to be awful in England -
1. Vaughan to hand over the captaincy to Collingwood (go out on a high) and give a new opener a go - probably Carberry.
2. Drop Anderson (far too expensive) and give a new bowler a chance - either Onions or an in form young county bowler (pick on form not reputation etc..)
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For the sake of the nation's spelling the correct version is:
POHM - as of course it is short for 'prisoner of Her(His) Majesty', a endearing term for all the convicts sent to Australia from Britain.
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I think I am right in saying that Flintoff (and/or his county coach?) have said that because of his ankle he will only ever be able to operate as part of a 5-man attack, bowling short sharp spells. Therefore, he has to justify his place as a batsman, batting at 6. Given that there's no obvious candidate to drop from the England top order, Freddie will have to go back to county cricket and score centuries to justify his recall.
One of the main problems of the disastrous Ashes tour was that Freddie got rolled over far too easily in all but the last test - which then completely opened up the tail and lead to rapid collapses. It may be heresy to say it - but I am not sure, based on Freddie's recent Test batting form, that he makes my England XI.
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I have this recurrent fantasy about Jonathan Agnew being recalled for the next Ashes series and (of course) reclaiming said urn with the last ball of the final over.
Stranger (though admittedly not much stranger) things have happened in cricket and I think the time has definitely come to rewrite the record books.
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Andrew Strauss, was captain when we beat Pakistan 3-0(ok 2-0 plus a walk over) and his series average was over 70, they then took the captaincy away for the ashes tour which started the big decline in Englands ratings and strauss' form. Perhaps we should give him the captaincy back or is Michael Vaughan the new Mike Brearley, keeping his place because of his captaincy skills.
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Flintoff isn't a reliable enough performer with the bat to replace one of the six incumbent test batsman. Is he indeed going to shoulder a full load of bowling after his latest unfortunate injury? If he can, then he should replace Anderson and bat at seven. If not then Anderson should be replaced by Hoggard...who shouldn't have been dropped in the first place.
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I'm afraid that Mr Glass's earlier comment that the place for fifth batsmen should be between Bell and Strauss is utterly absurd. Bell should simply not be in that equation he has proved time after time that he is a high class test player! He has excellent technique and many of the other batsmen (such as Strauss) should study his technique and erase their many floors as test batsmen. Silly comment, are you a selector?
Broad and Sidebottom, two great Notts players!!!
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Andrew Strauss, was captain when we beat Pakistan 3-0(ok 2-0 plus a walk over) and his series average was over 70, they then took the captaincy away for the ashes tour which started the big decline in Englands ratings and strauss' form. Perhaps we should give him the captaincy back or is Michael Vaughan the new Mike Brearley, keeping his place because of his captaincy skills.
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If you want to bring Flintoff back, it must be primarily as a bowler.
Although we all know he can hit very hard, his performance with the bat has been terrible recently.
In other words, it would be a grave mistake to kick out one of our batsmen to make room for him as it would dangerously weaken an already erratic batting line-up.
But, obviously, what is equally important is that his health and fitness are unquestionable if he is brught back into the team as a front-line bowler.
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England are finally gaining some confidence in their abilities. Sure they're not the best team in the world, India being the ones to watch. But with Freddie back hopefully we can build some momentum for the Ashes next year.
As for the Australians- they may be number one, but they're hardly the team they used to be, and we all know that the next 5 years of international cricket will be interesting for all involved.
Team selection's easy for me- Flintoff in for Anderson. And if we're on form in a year's time, the Aussies will be quietly crapping themselves. Although they'd never admit it!
By the way it's P.O.H.M.I.E. (prisoner of his majesty in exile) as written on the convict's clothes on arrival in antipodia.
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Vaughn is who you drop
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If "POHM" refers to convicts then it refers to the Aussies! Surely it is a reference to the red cheeks of the white English - hence pommes. At least that is what I was told at school in Brisbane!
Back to cricket - I agree with many posters - Fred to 7 and 4 bowlers if he is fit to bowl 20 overs in a day. However he would not have to be brialliant to score more than Vaughan!
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thought it was 'Prisoner of Millbank' - P.O.M.
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It's gotta be Vaughan for the chop. Surprised Aggers didn't suggest it. As a batsman, he's had it. As a skipper, ditto. In fact, in the captaincy department he always flattered to deceive.
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Vaughan will not be dropped, you can bet money on that. You may want him to get 100 every match and thats fine but don't forget he is statistically the best captain we've had, and which would you prefer? a player getting 100 or a captain winning matches?
IF Flintoff is fit he'll come in for Anderson and bat around 7, he's always spot on with the ball but struggled with the bat since 2005 even before getting injured.
Hoggard I don't feel has suffered any criticism, he was dropped for not performing, he hasn't been blocked from coming back and no one has questioned his dedication or drive. He reminds me of a shire horse, reliable and powerful but he needs a rest now and again.
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England's application over the last two days has been excellent. It has been long overdue but it is good to see spells of the team's previous form come back to light. England now need to build consistency over the summer ahead of the Ashes in 2009.
A pat on the back goes to two gentlemen this morning.
Firstly, congratulations Andrew Strauss. It was an immensely crucial innings he played- not just in the context of the match and the series but in trying to prolong his career. He has got issues with his technique. That is there for all to see, but he did what was asked of him. He scored a bucket full of runs and scored a fine century! So before all readers sharpen their knivess lets just give the guy a break and say well done. He deserves to be selected for the summmer tests now surely. To sum up with the words of Geoff Boycott "the kid has character" and it is guys with character we will need in the future.
Finally all hail Stephen Fleming. A man who has carried the New Zealand team for over a decade. A gritty and determined batsman with one of the best cut shots in the game. I had the opportunity to watch Fleming at the Cricket World Cup in South Africa (2003) and it was a pleasure to watch him bat and he did so with such elogance. I even got the chance to meet him at Port Elizabeth and he is a true gentleman as well. A great of the game. New Zealand have a massive hole now to fill.
England should really win the series now which would be a remarkable turnaround considering the Sri Lankan debacle.
As for who you drop from the team for the summer tests- its tricky but I would bring back Freddie in for Anderson and let Hoggy fight it out with the other bowlers for a spot. If Freddie is less than 100% fit Hoggy to start the series instead of Anderson.
Go England!
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Talking about the first test at Lords, we need to answer a couple of questions
1) How fit is Flintoff and is he on form with the bat?
2) Are the early Summer test pitches going to help Monty? He doesnt provide us with much else apart from his bowling, so I think it could be a good time to give Rashid from Yorkshire a go and see how he goes.
Lets not wait untill he has had 4 seasons in county cricket so he goes stale, age should not be a barrier, just look at Southie, and I do remember a certain Mr Tendulker was very young on test debut.
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anyone care what an australian has to say about england v new zealand? they may be better than us but they are still obsessed with us.
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what is the english obsession with messing around with batting orders when people get a bit bored between series. The selectors do it and it seems the fans endorse this kind of behaviour. Every new batting order suggested on this forum requires a drastic shake-up of the current order...just as people are starting to get comfortable in their roles. Strauss just scored a ton at 3, well let's make him open. It's madness, madness which the aussies don't entertain..."you want a spot on the team, well then you fill the role that is available, not the one that you're used to"
Also, it seems unlikely that the selectors will decide to drop England's most successful ever skipper immediately after he captains his side to an (probable) overseas series victory. The V stays....
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From Tims comment (No 5),
'Stauss.... obviously. One swallow does not make a summer, and runs against New Zealand should be regarded as difficult as scoring against a second eleven attack.'
So why has our glorious captain scored almost 200 hundred runs less then Strauss in this series?
So on that basis surely Vaughan has to be dropped?
If Flintoff isn't fit then Hoggard should definitely come in for Anderson. As he has more control.
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I seem to recall that Flintoff (or one of his coaches?) has said that he can only bowl now as part of a 5 man attack ie he cannot be relied on to bowl 40 overs in a innings.
This means that he now has to be seen as a batting all-rounder at 6 in the order. This means he has to show that his batting has improved since he last played test cricket. On the disastrous tour of Australia last year, one of the main reasons for England's calamitous performances was Flintoff's inability to act as a lynchpin of the order as he did in 2005. Instead he was out cheaply in all but the final test, allowing the tail to be exposed regularly.
Put simply, he needs to go back to county cricket in April and May and score big runs to justify replacing one of the current England top six. It may be heresy but based on Flintoff's most recent test batting performances and given that we cannot rely on his bowling as before, he would not make my XI for the 1st test vs NZ at Lords.
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Actually, the derivation of the word 'pom' is from the word pomegranate. It was rhyming slang for immigrant (referring to the people moving to australia from the uk) - initially the rhyme was 'jimmy grant' (can't quite remember but he was a public figure at the time) but then became pomegranate, possibly because pomegranates, like the english people who arrived in australia, went red in the sun. Just thought I'd like to enlighten you. Well played today england. Just goes to show how intelligent bowling can brings its rewards.
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Good report again Aggers old chap!
Here's my idea for a line up for the summers first three tests
Cook
Strauss
Bell
Pietersen (c)
Collingwood
Ambrose
Flintoff
Broad
Sidebottom
Panesar
Hoggard
Whilst, to quote "one swallow doesnt make a summer", we have a repeat "summer" coming up with the Kiwis over here so Strauss has surely done enough to keep his place for that at least. And whilst Ramps is in good form, I really think we should forget about him and look to develop one or two newer batsmen with a view to a certain Ashes series in '09...so the latter summer might be worth a shot with Joe Denly or even Billy Godleman
I really dont see Vaughan now as being a long term option for England. I think some of his tactical decisions this season are questionable, the only inspired and brave one this winter being to leave out Hoggy and Harmy. Hoggy will still be useful in the early summer over here but Harmy and Jimmy should go back to the drawing board for a while
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Talking about the first test at Lords, we need to answer a couple of questions
1) How fit is Flintoff and is he on form with the bat?
2) Are the early Summer test pitches going to help Monty? He doesnt provide us with much else apart from his bowling, so I think it could be a good time to give Rashid from Yorkshire a go and see how he goes.
Lets not wait untill he has had 4 seasons in county cricket so he goes stale, age should not be a barrier, just look at Southie, and I do remember a certain Mr Tendulker was very young on test debut.
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Totally agree with the comments about the batting and replacing Anderson
Firstly he does need to be replaced because as has been said I think he needs a full, injury free season at county level to get some yards in and get a better line and length and variation on flat picthes
Secondly England should have 6 bats. Flintoff isnt good enough to bat at 6 and with Monty able to bowl a lot of overs with control we should be able to play Fred at 7. If he cant bowl 20 overs in a day he isnt fit enough at test level -simple as that. W£ithout him I would look at Hoggy back or maybe Tremlett who bowled excellently last summer
The man under pressure IMO is Vaughan. If he keeps getting low scores this summer and Colly shows a good hand in the ODI's his place should come under threat - esp if Key, Denly, Hildreth, Carberry etc score a lot of runs in CC
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Aggers, I agree with your comments about Fleming. He was indeed a very fine cricketer and, in these times, that rare combination; an exceptionally talented sportsman and a rounded human being to boot. He will be a great loss to both international cricket and New Zealand sport. In fact, without him, I fear for the Kiwis when they come to tour England in a month or so's time. They are a callow and limited side with him in the ranks, but without him they look almost totally bereft of quality and experience. In early summer English conditions I can see it being a very one-sided series.
As for England, I'm still unconvinced. Broad, Ambrose and Cook have promise but strike me as maybe above average County players destined for reasonable but not outstanding achievement at Test level. We have a track record of producing cricketers like that. Ladies and Gentlemen, can I also give you Bell, Strauss, Anderson, Sidebottom, Panesar and Vaughan who all fall into that category too. Whither the Trescothicks, Flintoffs and Simon Jones; genuinely outstanding Test players? At Test level I think we're entitled to see the very best competing at an exceptional level. Can anybody say we've seen anything approaching that in New Zealand over the last 2 months or so? And we're going to do it all over again in 6 weeks time, for pity's sake. Chris Martin bowling to Andrew Strauss. Now there's a prospect to whet the appetite. Failing that, there's always Jacob Oram running in to Paul Collingwood or Monty Panesar to Matthew Sinclair or.....aaagggghhhhh!!zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!
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Experts!
What makes a bowler inconsistent?
Everytime I turn on the radio I hear 'Anderson Four', I'm beginning to think that's his real name.
The lad has talent but why such a high percentage of 4 balls? The 4 balls just put pressure on the other bowlers. How can he cut this out of his game?
Any ideas?
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No Tecwyn, you're wrong:
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Tecwyn wrote:
For the sake of the nation's spelling the correct version is:
POHM - as of course it is short for 'prisoner of Her(His) Majesty', a endearing term for all the convicts sent to Australia from Britain.
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Don't be so sure that your spelling is 'correct', there are a number of eptymologies.
The only one with evidence to back it up is that it derives from pomegranate, being extinct Australian slang for immigrant. Another less-substantiated argument is that the pomegranate link stems from the colour a British person's skin would turn from sunburn in Australia.
Another similar to your suggestion (and one I heard from a guide on a recent London tour) is that it derives from 'Prisoner of Millbank' rather than 'Prisoner of Her Majesty's Service', making the acronym POM rathet than POHM.
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Freddy will come back into the side for a batsman. Theres no way, after all thse injury problems, he will be part of a three man seam attack.
I would drop Vaughan, make Collingwood captain and move Ambrose to 6 and Flintoff can bat 7.
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Its a tough one this. But you've got to ask is flintoff going to be match fit? he has come back to early before and paid the price. his ankle needs to be fully tested and he should be not be considered until the second half of the summer at least. also on the point of planning for the ashes, why?? when we won the ashes on 2005, we won it by winning all the series leading up to it and that is wat we should now. take every series as it comes, pick our best 11 for each game and when the ashes do come round we are a confident winning side with players that have the confidence in themselves. as for this aussie, wat are you talking about. deary me. he should worry about his own bowlers. you have no spinner for the future (you have macgill now but he has just had an op on his bowling hand because he was losing feeling in it, that cant be good!!), mithchell johnson is overated(bowls miles outside off consistantly), you have binger and stu clark that are quality bowlers yes, but if one of those breaks down who you got in reserve, bracken??? your batting is strong but with gilly gone and hayden going shortly there is two big holes to fill. its a worrying future for you.
so come on england, lets beat these kiwis tomorrow and do the same again in the summer in our own backyard!!
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Flintoff´s batting hasn´t warrented the number 6 shirt for 2 years. If he comes back, he has to come back as a bowler who can bat a bit. He´d be one heck of a number 9 though !!
But we´re getting well ahead of ourselves here. He should have to prove his fitness and form before any return, like everyone else. It´s not right that he should just stroll back into the side without enough cricket under his belt first.
Finally, nice to see Broad shaping up nicely, with both ball and bat. A lovely little cameo innings at the end there, but with some lovely actual strokes, not just tail-end slogging !!
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Vaughan is the obvious candidate to make room, but then again, he is protected as current captain.
Cook
Strauss/Shah
Pietersen
Collingwood
Bell
Ambrose
Flintoff
Broad
Hoggard
Sidebottom
Panesar
I think Pietersen would be my candidate for captain - he tends to shoot from the hip a bit more about what needs to be done. Collingwood & Vaughan may do that now, but the impression from their media interviews is one of overblown confidence. Aggers is right, more passion & aggression is needed.
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I would like the ECB and Freddy to nip all speculation in the bud about a return to the test team.
Do we need him ??? Yes but as a quick bowler who bats a bit !!! If all goes well with the ankle then back for second half of summer.So against New Zealand at home.
Cook
Strauss
Bell
Pietersen
Shah
Collingwood (capt)
Ambrose
Broad
Sidebottom
Panesar
Hoggard /Anderson
whoever bowls the better at the start of our season i would suspect Hoggard.
Unfortunately Michael has to go and i would give Strauss the 3 Tests to prove himself.
If hopefully Flintoff is fit to return against South Africa this should create the pressure for places that is needed to build a squad capable of taking on Australia we are a long way from that goal at the moment.
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I always wondered (as per 28's explanation) why do the Australian's call the English 'poms' or 'pohms' (point noted) - when in fact the term obviously applies to them?
Is it a notion of sarcasm in that great, well-known streak of Aussie 'banter' so delicately portrayed by Messers Langer, Symonds, Ponting, et. al.??
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So Flintoff bowls a couple of overs, scores a couple of runs and is immediately restored to the England team? Why doesn't he have to prove his fitness and form in the county game first? All I know is that the selectors will make some misguided decision like keeping Anderson, or making Strauss captain.
Incidentally wikipedia states:
'A false etymology (or "backronym") common in both Australia and New Zealand is that pom originated as an acronym for "prisoner of (his/her) majesty" or "prisoner of mother England". Although many of the first British settlers in Australia were convicts sentenced to transportation to Australia, there is no evidence for this. Some proponents of this theory claim that upon arrival in the country they would be given a uniform with "POHM" or "POME" emblazoned on the back, which apparently stood for Prisoners Of Her Majesty but there are no images or examples of these uniforms.'
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If Flintoff comes back as a bowling all rounder (batting at 7) doesn't this open up the wicket keeper debate again ?
Surely if the wicket keeper bats at 8 then he should be the best keeper, not the best batter who keeps.
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Anderson 17-108-0 Goooood figures. Thats 6.35 per over not 5. Hoggy in for Anderson, for now. Flintoff would indeed need to prove his long term fitness as a front-line bowler and wouldn't replace a batsmen as our batting is simply not world class apart from Pietersen or not unless Flintoff's batting suddenly improved and he started getting 100s for Lancashire. If Freddie can't play as a front-line bowler he can't play, simple as that. If we have 4 fit bowlers and Colly & Pietersen (and Shah - who would be my tip to replace old Vaughany) to turn their arms over for a few overs we'll be ok. Why have too many 'hit & miss' bowling options and weaken the already fragile batting line-up? Sorry Aggers, you're wrong with that idea - you can fluke a few wickets with a 4 man (+ dolly drop bowlers) attack but you can't fluke big batting totals, and without runs on the board you can't win cricket matches.
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Actually, Tecwyn, as I understand it, the correct spelling is POMS and as everyone knows it stands for Prisoner of Millbank Steps which is the set of steps down from Millbank Prison to the Thames from whence the convicts were shipped to Australia to practice their cricket. POMS was, I believe, written on their shirts.
I find it remarkable how fickle people can be. James Anderson was a hero only one test match ago. He's had a rough game. He needs a proper coach. But he's shown he can win matches. One innings ago, Strauss was being put out to grass never to return and now he is proposed as captain in place of a man who is about to win a series.
Freddie Flintoff is potentially England's greatest cricketer of the present era. But he has not yet shown he is anything like test match fit - a couple of short bowls at 70% in the desert does not make you test match fit - and he has not shown any great form. Like everyone else, he needs to prove himself at county level and win his place back.
And therein lies the problem with central contracts. The best players are stopped from playing and if you don't play you lose form and cannot iron out kinks and you lose rhythm. The key to England success is not stopping the best players from playing, but making sure that they can play first class four day games before and between test matches. They can have a rest every now and again, but they need to play, especially the fringe players.
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Yes, it's time to drop Anderson and let him concentrate on county cricket. England have stuck with him for too long with few wickets and poor figures in return. Maybe his action has something to do with it. It seems that he's trying to copy Paul Adams (Ex SA spinner) by trying his best to look at the sight screen behind him under his left armpit whilst letting go of the ball. He obviously can't multi-task.
Replace Jimmy with Freddie when he's fit and our bowling attack will be as complete as it can be until Simon Jones gets some overs under his belt. Then their may be a selection headache, which can only be a good thing as bowlers will have to battle for a place. Harmison is pretty much out of the picture now as he seems to have permantently swithched off his radar. Although, this does bring up another possible debate on why out of form England players don't go back to their county and play several games to get back into form without being in the spotlight and then pilloried by the media when it all goes belly up on the big stage. Its all very well saying that out of form bowlers are working on problems in the nets but, as we all know, that's a far cry from from bowling in a match situation.
I agree with Nick H in that in form county bowlers should be given a chance but they should be blooded against the lesser Test playing nations first.
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I seriously doubt if Flintoff will ever be reliable enough for Test cricket. His ankle has been carved up too often now.
Batting is a problem. All promised things but only on a perfect pitch did anybody deliver several of them at that.
I like Collingwood tremendously, he is a solid no-nonsense player, one of the few in the team who only ever appears to have an 'Off day' as opposed to 'Off Years', in marshaling the tail-enders to rescue the batsmen he is an absolute master (probably because he gets so much practice). But as Captain?
Vaughan's batting is a cause of concern, but he is a far more resourceful Captain than I think Collingwood can be.
Straus and Pietersen have both ended in much the same vein.
Selective amnesia rescues Pietersen, but the truth is that he trades as much on reputation as scores, targeted because of it and is often found wanting. On the last two/three years form, he is not due a 50+ score until the South Africans arrive.
Straus is having to graft, there are not many English batsmen that can bat for 8 hours, he can only get better, or give up totally. So if we keep one, the other stays.
Which leaves Cook and Bell. At least Bell has managed a meaningful result
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All this talk about Flintoff coming back into the team is a little premature. He has bowled only nine overs since his comeback and these are in pre-season warm-up matches.
Before he gets his place back the selectors should demand runs, wickets and that he is 100% fit. For me this means he is out of the running for the NZ series.
Given the likelihood that we win the series tomorrow and that Strauss has now scored the big ton he needed, the only player in danger of being dropped is Anderson. If Hoggy shows good early season form and proves his fitness, then he should be a shoo-in.
It is too early to question Vaughan's position in the side. However, he does need to start converting his good starts into big scores and perhaps should drop down the order to 5, with Cook, Strauss, Bell and Pietersen above him. I still feel that he will prove that form is temporary but class is permanent.
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Flintoff in for Andersen for the summer tests does sound good, but it might be wise to let Flintoff find form with the bat first in county cricket. I would think that Bell is the most likely casualty of any batman being dropped, simply because he does not dominate when the going is tough. It is a tough call though; the England batting line up does not look so good at the moment simply because we dont have attacking players in the Trescothick mould (or Stewart or Thorpe for that matter). One thing that has not been commentated on is that the main difference between the England team that won so many series in 2004 and 2005 up until the Ashes had Thorpe in it. He scored more runs than anyone else when the going was tough at quite a nice rate. Our main problem seems to be not having a consistent, fast scoring left hander! And during the Ashes our top scorer was Trescothick who we simply have not replaced...
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I'm sure this is going to rumble so feathers, but why should Flintoff come straight back into the team?
His batting form over the last 18 months (when he has been in the side) has been terrible.
Based on his bowling performances when fit he could arguably be picked as opening seamer, but it would be dangereous giving him too many overs so early following his injury.
Go back to County Cricket Freddie, prove you can bowl 20 overs a day, score some hundreds and be considered for the South African part of the Summer.
I would also like to see Rashid included in the squad point at some point to add an alternative to Monty Magic.
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It s important to remember that next we are up against a team with a HUGE psychological advantage in Australia. Granted their bowling attack is not what it was but with the huge scores they post, it does not necessarily have to be. England can't have any players with any lack of form. Strauss needs a good summer, he deserves a shot against New Zealand in blighty. However if his form does not pick up he goes...simple as that. Same with Vaughan, Flintoff and all the England players. Class is permanent yes, but form is what is going to count next summer.
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I do think we have to think seriously about excluding Vaughan. He is a very good captain but I don't think he justifies his place by that alone. Mike Brearley was an exception - he was a great slip fielder and an exceptional leader who brought the best out of his team - particularly Botham. And overall the team he captained possessed more class and batted further down. Getting out in the twenties was therefore less of a problem for the side than Vaughan's succession of "average" scores.
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Vaughn is a class batsman. He certainly has had a lean time but those who think he is 'over the hill' are premature. Most people agree he is a good captain and he appears to retain the respect of the team. I doubt if Collingwood has Vaughn's strategic talents. Vaughn should be allowed one more season to show that he is still the best person to lead England into the Ashes contest.
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Re: Mr Australian.
First things first, its Pommies not Pomis being an english man and a Hampshire County fan I have to say I admire Warne. His class is awesome everyone knows that his 76 odd deliveries caputured huge amounts of wickets, his batting wasn't bad either. His fielding however was not exmpelary in fact he dropped Pietersen in an innings that led to the ENGLISH victory in 2005. To compare Panesar to Warne is a serious disrespect to someone who is a completely different player to Warne. However if we are going to its important to realise that both men are talismans for their country's side...only problem is Warne is retired...Panesar plays on.
PS: as for England being rubbish...we'll see.
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Surely, if Flintoff is going to come back into the team then it's got to be at the expense of a bowler? He simply isn't good enough with the bat to warrant a place in out top 6.
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"to have a youngen like Broad bowling with limited County experience so early on is like throwing someone from Kindergarden into their final scool exams"
Or a young un like a certain I. Sharma (20 first class matches) who didn't seem to have too much trouble with the R. Ponting test?
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For all that I agree with Geoff Boycott's assessment of Harmison it does get on my nerves when he, like many other 'posters' goes on and on about building up to the Ashes in 2009.
For goodness sake! We have got several tough series coming up before then and why can we simply not concentrate on winning the next series, then the one after that? Players come and go, form fluctuates, so that by the time 2009 comes around there's no telling where several of today's side will be.
Will Vaughan still be captain, because he simply doesn't warrant a place in the team at the moment. Will a few poor scores for Strauss or Bell or Alistair Block mean they are omitted and someone else comes in? Which bowlers will have 'risen to the top' in the meantime?
We talk about looking ahead after every World Cup - "we must be building now for 2007" was Hussain's view after the debacle of the 2003 tournament, but the simple fact is that four years is such an awful long time.
By the time the tournament comes it's the form players who get picked and it will be the same for the Ashes in 2009.
Right now England have to face the fact that this has been a very ordinary winter, with several troughs and hardly any peaks to speak of, with Ryan Sidebottom the only real plus point in my view.
We haven't learned anything about any of the batsmen that we didn't know already and none of them have had a dominant time with the bat.
Behind the stumps we have learned nothing new - we have several decent English wicketkeepers.
Sidebottom apart, what have we seen with the bowlers that wasn't common knowledge? Harmison is a busted flush, Anderson is inconsistent, Panesar doesn't vary things enough to be truly threatening, Broad is promising, Hoggard will keep plugging away. None of those things have changed dramatically either in SL or NZ.
What has been surprising is how negative England have been on this tour - that ghastly block at Hamilton will scar the conscience of many supporters for some time, and even in winning these tests they have been overly cautious against a very modest NZ team.
And don't forget the SL leg of the winter either, where we saw just how far England have to go to be truly competitive with the world's top sides. They were completely outplayed and even the progress we though we saw in the 1 day side disappeared in a flash in NZ, where it was back to the drawing board.
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People keep mentioning Simon Jones...he can't even make it through a 40 over game. He is on the same scapheap as Alex Tudor and David Lawrence etc. We need to move on.
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So many contributors calling for Vaughan to be dropped and replaced with Collingwood as captain. I certainly agree with the former (Vaughan: a legend in his own mind but in few other minds) but Collingwood? Does he even deserve his place in the team? A few fifties here and there, but is he really a Test number 5 or 6? Is he a true Test class batsman, despite his one double-ton and a sprinkling of hundreds? Pietersen for me as skipper. Young, aggressive, opinionated, top batsman; just like, say, Ponting.
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I think this has been quite a good series. Leveled at 1:1 insured interest was maintained till the last which doesn't happen that often. Despite some peoples suggestions to the contrary I think some good honest cricket has been played. There has been good attendances and atmosphere at all the matches too which I think is very important. I always particularly like to see the emergence/development of new players and this series has produced ones to watch on both sides which has been great. I've been very pleased with the performances of Broad and Ambrose especially. I think they can help form a very strong and NEW unit for England which is very exciting. I was doubting Strauss and Bell very much before their final innings but both succeeded (if a little suprisingly!) and deserve to be persued with just a little longer. I'm feeling much better about the overall status of the England cricket team right now.... more than I was before this tour anyway!
"What do they know of cricket, that only cricket know" (Jon Arlott 1914-1991)
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flintoff is overated as a batsman and he is definitely not a test number 7. compare his record with shaun pollock's if you need any evidence of that. Broad is fitter, hungrier, less of a flagrant egomaniac and has a far better technique. if we weren't so tangled up in nostalgia it would be a no-brainer.
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you are all wrong. if freddie is fit and able then collingwood is the man to make way. test cricket is not the place for bits and pieces cricketers. maybe he is worthy in the one day game, (a big maybe), but his batting and bowling is very ordinary. it will be vaughns last summer if he fails again though.
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Why recall Flintoff? Keep Bell and Strauss in the side. I would still like to see the top 3 given a run for their money, particularly Vaughan and Strauss. In my view they'd really struggle against a top class bowling attack. We also need to think about a possible alternative to Bell who is still playing too introverted. I'd also like to see one of our batsmen provide a spin alternative to Monty who doesn't seem to be progressing quickly enough.
Anyway, well done England - luckily for you the next Test matches in May are also against NZ!!
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I don't think we'll need Freddie against New Zealand, especially without Flemming. I'd stick with this team, maybe bring in Hoggard for Anderson. Keep everything else the same, then bring in Flintoff for the ODIs and the T20 match, where he'll only have to bowl 10/4 overs. Let him get a bit of county cricket, ease him back into the international scene then, knock on wood, unleash him against South Africa! Great plan.
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Freddie in? Yes, if fit. Hoggy in for Anderson? Yes. Who gets dropped? Either Vaughan or Colly for me. Vaughan's form with the bat has been poor, and some of his captaincy (particularly in the early part of the NZ 1st innings) has been unusually slack. If Vaughan goes, give Colly the captaincy.
If Vaughan stays, Colly should go. He's a fantastic fielder and a 100% man but is either his batting or bowling strong enough to justify his inclusion alongside the specialists? With Freddy in, do we need two all rounders?
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Jonny (message 75) - You're absolutely right. Flintoff is an all-rounder whose bowling is by far the stronger part of his game. He doesn't deserve a place as a specialist batsman; he only averages 32 and hasn't scored a Test century since August 2005 - contrast that with the performance of a world-class batting all-rounder like Jacques Kallis.
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How about Flintoff to come back and prove himself against NZ, rather than in county cricket? Enough people have been queuing up to tell us that the standard in this series has been about the same...
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Pete (Comment 26)I'm not one to "bring em in and ship em out". I think as a long term prospect Adil Rashid will be just as good a bowler as Monty and is already a far better batsman so I think at least for the New Zealand series he should get a go. With Rashid, Broad and Flintoff (if fit) the England tail will cease to be the least effective in World cricket.
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IF not in the test side, certainly in ODI's we need to start bringing Rashid through this summer.
Not only great potential as a spinner but a genuine allrounder who can bat and field.
If his batting holds up at international level he could play no.7 as the team's all rounder and we could have the luxury of two spinners plus three seamers and Collingwood.
My team would therfore be:
Cook
Vaughan
Bell
Pieterson
Collingwood
Ambrose
Rashid (if Flintoff not 100%)
Broad
Sidebottom
Hoggard
Panesar
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Flintoff needs to play half the summer for lancs to prove his fitness.Vaughan needs runs in the early summer tests otherwise debate on his position.Ponting fears Vaughan so lets hope he gets the runs his class deserves.
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IF not in the test side, certainly in ODI's we need to start bringing Rashid through this summer.
Not only great potential as a spinner but a genuine allrounder who can bat and field.
If his batting holds up at international level he could play no.7 as the team's all rounder and we could have the luxury of two spinners plus three seamers and Collingwood.
My team would therfore be:
Cook
Vaughan
Bell
Pieterson
Collingwood
Ambrose
Rashid (if Flintoff not 100%)
Broad
Sidebottom
Hoggard
Panesar
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Please let me put some of this rubbish straight!
Flintoff should not walk back in to the side - his batting average is awful and therefore as a bowler he needs to get some overs in county cricket under his belt again before he gets back in.
Strauss is quality and the worst thing the slectors could have done was drop him as for all of you who play cricket once you've been dropped you are always on edge - more than any other game, especially as a batter as it only takes one ball. People seem to forget all the greats who had poor runs of form hence why averages of over 40 are good, especially for English players where wickets do a bit more. He averages 41 - leave him alone he will score many more. Hayden had a poor Ashes in England and went into his shell and played exactly the innings Strauss has just played -watchful. Test cricket isn't all about scoring 4/5 an over it's about grinding it out sometimes and that's what's missing in this Engalnd set up - that's why Cook, Strauss and Collingwood all do their job.
Re Anderson he is a wicket taker, if you understand that he'll go for plenty then he will perform. If you expect him to bowl tightly and take wickets -he won't. He should play when we are short or when he improves consisitency which I'm not sure will ever happen with an action where he doesn't look at the batsmen. a great bowler with the white ball. Hoggard should have played in the 2nd and 3rd test.
Harmison should retire...he is living off one good season.
And before the other batsmen get put under pressure - tell me who's scoring hundred after hundred in county cricket bar Ramps? Well when they do then we should start talking abut people under pressure...note David gower is a legend - he averaged 44, Strauss averaages 41....give the man a break! He's the most intelligent of our cricketers and should be made captain as he batted well when he was captain....
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Sorry to be parochial - Broad & Sidebottom for Nottinghamshire this coming season. I can't wait, though I live in the wilds of the Yukon, I dream of Trent Bridge, the County Championship and Test Matches. Notts are in good hands with these two, England as well.
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Sorry to be parochial - Broad & Sidebottom for Nottinghamshire this coming season. I can't wait, though I live in the wilds of the Yukon, I dream of Trent Bridge, the County Championship and Test Matches. Notts are in good hands with these two, England as well.
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When the ball moves we love it - 7 for 47s all round.
I think we should remember what happens when the ball doesn't move and our toiling seamers return sweat and 110-1.
Then we need bowlers with something extra. My line-up for non 'English' conditions:
Cook
Vaughan
Strauss
Pietersen
Bell
Collingwood
Ambrose
(that's right no batting change)
Flintoff
Jones
Panesar
Harmison
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The day England has a settled side will be the day we rule the world - i.e. never!
Debate 1: On current form Vaughan cannot remain in the side
But that would mean two lefties to open the innings - Cook and Strauss (didn't the selectors want a left-right combo though??)
Debate 2: Is Strauss technically strong enough for the sterner tests that lie ahead later in the year?
Especially if he is to open the innings?
Debate 3: Pietersen or Collingwood as skipper if Vaughan goes?
My feeling is that it would bring the best out of Colly but shackle KP and restrict his flamboyance.
Debate 4: Flintoff to come back?
Surely only if he is fit and proves his worth to the side by being in form
Debate 5: If Flintoff was to return would he bat at 6 or 7?
Surely he cannot be one of only four bowlers and hence needs to bat at 6, and be part of a five-man bowling attack! But is he good enough to bat at 6 when we face strong sides such as SA, Aus, India and Pakistan?
Debate 6: Panesar or Rashid?
My feeling is Rashid offers more options, deserves his chance and being a leggy is likely to turn the ball even on flat pitches. He is a better batsman, and cannot be as bad in the field as Panesar!
Debate 7: If Flintoff and Rashid both play then Ambrose would probably bat at 8. If that is the case then surely the best keeper should play, and not the best batsman who can keep?
Debate 8: The seam trio? Surely Broad for his potential, recent performances and batting ability. Also Sidebottom for his recent performances. That leaves one place. For English conditions in May you would say Hoggard instead of Anderson. But is that the best way forward for the future? And you can be damn sure that Anderson and Harmison will have skittled at least one county side out in the first month which will have given hope to the selectors and another false dawn on their futures.
So thats 8 dilemmas for the selectors, and invariably each decision affects another dilemma they face.
Not an easy job over the next 6 weeks... ...Though I'd happily do it!!
And if I was given the job, and all players were fit and firing, then this would be my XI come Lords in May.
Cook
Vaughan (c)
Pietersen
Bell
Collingwood
Flintoff
Rashid
Foster (wk)
Broad
Sidebottom
Hoggard
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I cant believe some of the comments regarding Freddie Flintoff. Once again it smacks of the English mentality of pinning all our hopes onto one man. The guy has had FOUR ankle operations and will have had next to no cricket come the 1st test on May 15th at Lords. The correct way surely would be for Feddie to spend some decent time with Lancashire accumulating overs in the middle and getting some rhythm back in his bowling. I would not pick him for the New Zealand series at all, I would save him for the South Africans later in the summer. As regards the current England side I would move Pieterson to number 3 ( you have to have your best player at number 3!!)and move Hoggard back in for Anderson who is a little bit too inconsistent. Surely the message for all players rather than discarding them must be "Go back to county cricket, take wickets / score runs consistently and you will be back in the frame"
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I'm confused about why people are harping on about Flintoff already. He has barely played cricket in the last year, yet alone played cricket well enough to have fought for his England place. If, as people say, he can only function as part of a 5 man attack, then he should go back to the counties and prove he can score runs consistently at #6 (or wherever). Otherwise, unfortunately, he has no place in the team.
Vaughan and Strauss won't be dropped for the summer... Vaughan seriously needs to improve though and probably knows this, while everyone knows that Strauss needs to iron out his problem with a leaden front foot and score more runs. I'd put my money on Strauss scoring some good runs this summer tbh.
And re: Hoggard, bring him back since Anderson has once again shown that he always, always, blows hot and cold in series and is not consistent enough. Hoggard was only given a test anyway, which many of us thought was harsh (even if, in Broad's instance, the kneejerk changes worked out).
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I think Vaughan has proved time and again that he is no longer up to test standard as a batsman. A decent captain - but then again this morning's first session was a waste of time, and that was all down to him not having the guts to declare and stick NZ under the cloud cover. What was the difference between 500 and 550 really? Both would be record chases.
So, time for the ECB to grow some balls and drop Vaughan, and if Freddie is fit, the team for the start of the summer is this:
Cook
Struass
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Ambrose
Flintoff
Broad
Sidebottom
Hoggard
Panesar
However, there are big question marks over Strauss (was this test a one-off?) and Hoggard in that line-up. If SP Jones is fit and on form once again he would be an ideal swap for Hoggard. Then the line-up would have swing (Sideshow Ryan), Pace and reverse (Jones/Flintoff), bounce (Broad) and Spin (Monty). Perfect.
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Flintoff can only return at Lords if he is fully fit to bowl 20 overs per day. I would pick him in place of Anderson, as he cannot be trusted to bat at 7 on current form.
I would return Strauss to open with Bell at 3 and Shah at 5. Vaughan has not scored nearly enough runs, and I feel (sadly) that Vaughan's time is up as captain. As 'Aggers' might say, Vaughan is drinking "at the last chance saloon".
Incidentally, if Strauss continues to struggle, either Key or Denly should replace him.
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I very much doubt that Vaughan will be dropped. I think the decision has already been made that he will captain in the next Ashes (and probably retire right after that). The last thing England need would be a captaincy change right before the Ashes. So if there is any serious thought to replacing Vaughan, it should be done now, but I don't think it will.
At the moment, Flintoff is a "bits and pieces" player--can't bat well enough to justify a batting position and can't bowl enough overs to be picked as a bowler. He needs to prove himself again as a top-six batsman or top-four bowler.
The other thing I'd suggest is that the talk of picking some youngsters is also problematic. At the moment, the established players have done just enough to retain their places and there's not really any that I'd want to drop right now (except that Hoggard should naturally replace Anderson), but you also don't want to wait and throw a bunch of rookies in right before or during the Ashes. Not sure of the correct answer to this.
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We are all still POMs - Prisoner of Millbank because isn't Millbank where the Labour Party is based? The country is certainly being held prisoner / held to ransom by ghastly Gordon and his team of cronnies!!
Well played England - a much better effort all round from everyone. Especially well done Monty! Good to see Broad "stick it up 'em" but he must b ecarefull not to get too carried away. He isn't quick enough to really worry Test Batsmen - poor old Sinclair and Elliott are hardly test class (at the moment. We have to kill off NZ today, and then beat them convincingly in England in the summer.
Flintoff has to prove his worth and fitness first. We should not need him for the NZ series. Let's give him more time to recover and get match fitness/practice before unleashing him against the Saffers!
Go England!
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This forum seems intent on fitting 'names' into slots on the team sheet. Worst of all, if we have Flintoff at 7, can't we have a proper wicketkeeper at 8 ?
Clean sheet of paper.
Is the makeup of the team going to involve 4 bowlers or 5 ? Can 3 quicks do as well as 4 ?
Do we need 6 specialist batsmen ?
All rounders clearly tip the balance. You're not an allrounder if you don't get into the team as a bowler or batsman on each specialism's merit. So.............
If you have a true all-rounder he bats at 6. That allows 4 specialist bowlers + a keeper + the all rounder. That means 5 specialist batsmen too. Make some hard decision from here.
Swing bowlers should open the bowling. That's when the ball is likeliest to swing. That said, if you have extreme pace, opening batsmen, best equipped to deal with it would still prefer not to face it. Lillee and Thomson, any number of West Indies quicks, followed by Akrama and Waqar prove the point.
Who do we pick to bowl ? Choose from (suggested pecking order)......
Sidebottom, Broad, definites.
Any number of others, based on form and fitness. Once Hoggard and Harmison were dropped the door was open; only Broad grabbed the chance, and is looking like the enforcer that either Harmison or Flintoff can be. There's an opening for one more qick, but the rest are so inconsistent it's a lottery.
Footnote to Harmison. Sulk all you like about Boycott's comments but your performance in the last 2 years has been awful. You turned up in NZ unfit, underbowled and ill-equipped to justify a central contract. Any professional opening batsman will tell you this; if they could bowl at 90 miles an hour they'd just knock peoples' heads off. Terrorise entire teams. Unfortunately, Steve, you aren't able to bowl at 90 mph any more. You had that gift once................
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I say give the captaincy to Strauss - something that he should have received instead of Phlintohoff anyhow :(
Phlintohoff lost us them Ashes and what's more, his silly elevation shattered the 'confidence' of a reasonable Test opener.
In my opinion the only players under real pressure to perform are now Vaughan and KP. Vaughan needs to post some innings his class is capable of producing and Mr. Brash needs to shut up and put up - preferably some massive scores against good opposition .
In the end, the team trundles along quite nicely and just needs 1. a kick in the pants and 2. a kick in the pants.
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I think this test is proving significant in a number of respects for the future.
Most importantly, Vaughan must go; his batting is not worthy of a place and his captaincy is becoming increasingly suspect.
Broad is improving all the time and I'm sure will be in the sides for many years.
Sidebottom is wonderful, how many more are there lost in county cricket?
Flintoff, when fit, will replace Anderson.
Finally, good luck to Simon Jones this season, I haven't forgotten you.
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If Flintoff has returned to full fitness and can prove so, I don't think it necessarily has to be a batsman that loses their place.
I think Flintoff has more often contributed more to the team with his bowling rather than his batting, and I could see him in the team at 8.
However, he has got to prove his form and fitness. I don't want to see him selected on merit.
I would like to see Anderson have a season of County cricket this year. I think he's a bowler with definite talent and with a future for England but I still don't feel that he's quite ready at this level to perform consistently enough.
As long as his replacement isn't Plunkett.
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Freddie? You must be joking! What has he done in the past year or two to merit selection? Can't bowl more than a few overs at a time and has lost his batting mojo.
Anderson in the counties - learn like Sidey did.
Vaughn better pull finger fast as he seems to be winding down his career.
Hoggy in for sure.
Rashid is breathing down Monty's neck..
things could be looking good for England come this summer.
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As a university professor, I feel obliged to pass comment on TC's comment number 38. Unfortunately, Mr Australian is correct by using the term "pom". Your suggested term "pohm",(for Prisoner of His/Her Majesty),would be an acronym, and acronyms weren't used until the first world war, and weren't popular until world war two. The word "acronym" itself wasn't invented until 1943. The term pom is short for pomegranate, a term used to describe the bright red shade that the fierce Australian sun turned British immigrants' skin - the same colour as the pomegranate. If I may be so bold as to pass comment on the cricket now... I believe we have a team that can compete with the Aussies next year, but we need to be in-their-faces, determined and aggressive. My eleven would be...
Cook
Vaughan
Bell
Pietersen
Shah
Collingwood
Flintoff
Ambrose
Broad
Sidebottom
Hoggard
It would be rather wonderful to see Simon Jones back in the team though.
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Time to find a new captain. What on earth was Vaughn doing, batting on even after Strauss was out. As captain you need the killer bite and Vaughn has either lost it or has lost confidence in his players - especially the bowlers. Bell has cemented his place with excellent batting whilst KP needs to put together an innings of authority or else back to Hampshire for some nets and catching practice. Panesar has bowled quite well but looks like he needs a bit of fitness training. Drop Anderson to drinks boy and bring back Hoggy. Bye Bye Harmy - sorry just not good enough now. Well done Broad and well done Sidebottom - bent your backs and put the effort in. Flintoff? If he gets fit then as a bowler but only taking the place of Anderson as drinks boy until one of the existing lads messes up - and it will have to be big time for that to happen. Time to be ruthless and stop picking players on past reputation - the Aussies don't and they are streets ahead of anyone, let alone England who have a pool of players greater than that of all the Test playing Nations put together.
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It seems very premature to even be considering bringing in Rashid at this stage, and demonstrates more than anything how desperately short of spin bowling options England are. Whilst he may indeed be promising he has only taken 75 first class wickets at close to 35 apiece. Selection for a test at this stage is most likely simply to ruin his confidence.
As regards Freddie, there is some doubt in my mind whether he truly is a unifying force in the team, however popular he is with cricket followers. His actual test stats. are not that impressive either, both as a batsman and a bowler. Having said that, he may well be worth a place in the test side, but he shouldn't simply be allowed to wallk back in in May, as many others have said.
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I think it is far to early to consider removing MV from the captiancy. But I am astonished by these people who think Flintoff shoul play at 6 without proving himself. If he has to play, drop Anderson, play Fred at 8 and expect Colly, Piterson or Vaughn to bowl a few overs a day.
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For those of you awaiting the return of Flintoff the Destroyer, I suggest a quick read of Simon Barnes' excellent piece from Saturday's Times:
Flintoff should not be considered for selection until he has proved that he can bowl 15-20 overs a day, full tilt, in a string of four day matches.
The First Test against New Zealand starts on May 15, which means Flintoff has only three LV games to prove his fitness. There are another three four-day games before the First Test against South Africa, so I'd consider him for the second half of the summer, perhaps using the ODIs against NZ as a means of seeing if he can get through a 10-over spell - assuming he is taking wickets and runs.
If/when he does regain full fitness, he is not a Test match number six. I would rather see him coming in at 7 to give the batting a bit of much-needed depth and focus on his bowling - although whether his fitness or ego could handle that is yet to be seen.
My team for the first Test of the summer:
Cook
Vaughan
Pietersen
Bell
Strauss
Collingwood
Ambrose
Broad
Hoggard
Sidebottom
Panesar
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The truth about the origin of the word "pom" or "Pommie" is that nobody really knows. My dictionary gives the phrase as "prisoner of Mother England", and gives as another possibility a blend of "immigrant" and "pomegranate".
My main reaction to the Oz person who started this,is the use of the coarse Americanism "you suck". We all know Australia is even further up Uncle Sam's bottom than we were under Tony Blair, but why make it so obvious?
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This may sound a little controversial but if Freddie has to operate as part of a 5 man attack because of his ankle, I would suggest he shouldn't be playing for england.
A fully fit 4 man attack is better than a 5 man attack with a passenger who has been included at the expense of a batsman. I am one of freddie's biggest fans but if he can't operate as a bowler full time then he should not play.
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well do we need to bring back flintoff straight away, i would say let him play county cricket till the one dayers and have a fully match fit flintoff than a half cooked freddie which would be the case early on in the summer
broad, sidebottom, hoogard and panesar is more than potent enough to get 20 NZ wkts
in the batting i feel england need a replacement for trescothick, not just another batter but someone who attacks bowlers and lets the player the other end play at their own pace, as showed by his early test form strauss does particually well in such a situation, my shout would be for rob key for that i think he is mature enough to do a very affective job for england at the top of the order, so my first test team would be;
strauss
key
cook
pietersen
vaughan
collingwood/ bell
ambrose
broad
sidebottom
hoggard/ tremlett
panesar
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Strauss should not play for England as far as im concerned. Alot of average cricketers would have got runs against that NZ attack, not to mention how easy going the pitch was.
Also i dont understand the logic in picking anderson, never have. Wastes the new ball more often than not- and lets face it, Hoggard is a better bowler!! Always has been always will be. My team would be....
Vaughan (C)
Cook
Bell
Pieterson
Collingwood
Flintoff
Ambrose
Broad
Sidebottom
Hoggard
Panesar
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I went to cricinfo and used the stats guru to look at the averages of the top 6 and you know what - they all average about or over 40. Of course they have a bad series but it evens out over 2 years. Vaughan had a goos summer in 2007 and was better than some in sri lanka, so I think he deserves a break!
Most of the posters seem to forget collingwood can bowl 5-10 overs a day and if the balls turning so can pieterson. So fintoff for anderson seems ok to me, especially with good injury free stamina bowlers in sidebottom and broad.
If the conditions are so much in favour of the seamers then monty can be dropped and replaced with hoggy. We can also drop a batter and play a bowler who can bat if the conditions really require it ie. plunkett at 9 or rashid. It's a decision that can be made on form nearer the time...
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This has to have been one of the lowest quality test series not involving a minnow that i have ever seen.
England have basically played awful and been saved by Sidebottom ad yet NZ have managed to play even worse cricket.
England at least have room for improvement but the kiwis look set to fall even further now that Fleming is gone.
Worrying days for test cricket, outside of australia and on their day india there is very little quality going around.
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Since mid-teens thisex-grammar school student-cum-OU graduate has clung to the belief that for all the changes that have come about during the past 60 years, the 'white flannel' game remains the most beautiful outdoor sport ever devised. The Guardian coverage of the game, its noblest aspects long served by a gentleman by the name of Neville Cardus, remains my favourite guide. Please register this 76 year-old terminally-ill lover of cricket.
Brian Crowther
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After reading the above comments i find it amazing how people can jump from one bandwagon to another. Jimmy anderson 'her' i hear you say after his five wicket haul in the second test now drop him??????? he may a little wayward but hes a threat. Strauss is a proven run scorer in both international and county cricket why does he deserve to be dropped over the likes of vaughan and cook 'to a certain extent on recent performances'. Flintoff had a couple of years of world beating form but wheres he been since on the physio table or in the bar more often than not. Flintoff is no longer the type of player that we need in the England set-up same goes for vaughan, harmison and hoggard these are players who cannot maintain a consitent form (bar hoggard who i just feel is past his best) bring in shah who's dying to play for his country carberry and tremlett a danger to even the worlds best batsmen.
cook
strauss
shah
pietersen
bell
collingwood
ambrose
broad
sidebottom
tremlett
panesar
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Isn't it nice to see a discussion on the England team without any real mention of a new keeper. From my point of view England has a couple holes
Firstly - Opener, we need someone to complement Cook, someone younger than Vaughn, set the stage for a few years to come, what about moving Bell up to open.
2nd - All rounder, unless Flintoff can prove himself fit to bowl we are missing a genuine bowling all rounder who can bat, this put pressure on carrying more bowling and increasing a long tail, could Broad play himself into that position? Rashid looks to be an option
3rd - Experience from all the calls to drop Strauss, Vaughn and Harmy we are ripping the experience outof the team,remember Sidebottom is fairly green tests as is Ambrose, Cook , Broad etc.
That being said my test side would be
Cook
Bell
Strauss ( capt)
Pietersen
Collingwood ( vice)
Rashid/ Flintoff (on fitness and conditions)
Ambrose
Broad
Sidebottom
Hoggy
Panesar
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Yes broad has strengthened the tail and I think it would be great to return to a 5 man attack and Ambrose for me could make it possible.
This will be controversial but I think Cook should make way. Strauss has proved his strength of character again. I was amazed how people overlooked his 90 in the summer and how he along with vaughan offered the only resistance in that fight to save the game against india.
People will lay into vaughan after a quiet series but that is nonsense. He is class and his mental strength - two centuries last summer after so long out of the game!!
Flintoff - if he can get fit will be a welcome return. Allowing us a pool of 6 bowlers from which to rotate depending on conditions
flintoff
hoggard
sidebottom
Panesar
broad
harmison (yes harmison to be played when the track is fast and bouncy not favouring spin and slow)
he has been solid in sri lanka on unhelpful wickets
and people forget how he devastated pakistan in 2006 - one of the very best line-up at the time
cook would then come back very hungry after vaughan retires - like hayden, langer and martyn
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Aggers has not called for the head of Vaughan, because he knows how good a captain he really is. As a batsman he is a class batsman who has had a poor series. Technically he is far more sound than Strauss and whilst I have great admiration for Strauss's innings in such difficult circumstances, in the long term I have more faith in Vaughan scoring against the higher quality bowling attacks. Vaughan will be captain until the end of the next Ashes series when he will retire on a high for reclaiming the Ashes!
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We have relatively solved the keeping issue but in recent times the other problems have been a) batting and b)getting a solid set of bowlers.
b is solved simply by having Panesar plus 3 of the 4 seamers you mention. There is no point in playing all 4 at the cost of weakening the batting. Better to build around a norm of Siders, Hoggy and Broad with Freddie replacing one of the latter two when fit and firing - and thereby strengthening the batting without weakening the bowling.
And lets not get too excited we are actually talking about only 3 decent seamers who are regularly fit plus one who might be back sporadically (Flintoff) and another who we can wistfully pine for (Jones). Remember the recent reality is resorting to the allsorts tossed up by the likes of Plunkett, Mahmood, Harmison and Anderson any of whom might come good but are still a way off and might always remain so.
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The point about Flintoff's batting is not so much his average but the fact that he is a match winner. Botham's average, if I remember, was only in the thirties when he finished playing and I'm not sure that his bowling average was that sensational. But he won England matches and influenced series. Flintoff needs matches at county level to prove his form and fitness. If he does that then his selection should be virtually automatic
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Harmison and Hoggard are being paid an awful lot of money to play cricket for England. In what other business would you be paid £200k+ per year and yet CHOOSE to be unfit to perform your day to day duties at the start of business ??????????????
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I am personally insulted by the lack of respect for the England captain, Michael vaughan has scored 17 test hundreds, and just won a series from 1 zip down!
i would get rid of one Paul Collingwood personally!
Cook
Strauss
Vaughan c
Bell
Pietersen
Flintoff
Ambrose wkt
Broad
Sidebottom
Hoggard
Panesar
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Just wanted to say thanks to Stephen Fleming for playing his cricket in such a gentlemanly manner.
Whilst this series has, perhaps, not been the most thrilling in terms of quality it certainly has been played in a fantastic spirit.
That is something 'other' test playing nations could learn from.
Well done to you too Aggers for your concise, accurate and astute blogs.
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To Des (post #108)... the word 'acronym' was coined in the 20th century, but the concept wasn't new... I'm fairly sure that since the Romans couldn't fit 'Senatus Populusque Romanus' on their coins, they instead used 'SPQR'.
For the sake of your students I hope your university doesn't pay you a high salary.
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Does anybody really care ? Who's going to pay exorbitant Lords ticket prices to watch a very 2nd rate NZ team play a very inconsistent England side.Come to think of it I suppose there'll be planty of hooray Henry's there on corporate jollies.
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I feel that there are too few tributes to Stephen Fleming on this post - so here's mine. Well said, aggers - and congratulations to Fleming for being a stand-out man in county game, as well as in the internatiopnal arena. Leading Notts to the CC was no mean feat!!!!
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I'm not sure that this England team is the best of the lot available to play .. we seem to be going back to the same old people we discard as being unfit for England duties.. but that's another debate altogether.
The Flintoff debate is quite unusual.. yes, he WAS a match winner, yes, he WAS a fantastic bowler, yes, he PLAYED a few fantastic innings as a batsman, but that doesn't merit his automatic inclusion into the side. Put yourself in his place.. you have the country waiting with bated breath for your recovery, and when you decide you're ready, you really don't have to perform.. you can always blame it on a) your ankle or b) lack of match practice. The country will buy these arguments, and sympathise with you. I'm a huge fan of Freddie, but can he put this argument to rest once and for all by coming back strongly on the domestic circuit and merit his place in the playing 11.. let alone decide where in the order he will bat.
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Post 120 calls Anderson a threat. More of a threat to the boundary advertising bards than NZ batsmen. His awful performances far outweight the good and its time to realise despite a good performance 1 in 8 innings he will never be a good enough performer at Test level.
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Broad is a world class cricketer, Nassir Hussain was right when he said "this lad has got something special about him". Every time I watch him he appears to be getting better and better. The spell he bowled earlier was hostile and on this good batting wicket, his figures were outstanding. If Andrew Flintoff can get back to his best we will have a great team, for South Africa this summer and the ashes, next. Will there be room for both Flintoff and Broad? Because if Broad keeps developing with both bat and ball, we will have 2 genuine allrounders.
My team for home series versus South Africa
Cook
Vaughan (C)
Strauss
Pieterson
Bell
Collingwood
Ambrose (W)
Flintoff
Broad
Sidebottom
Panesar
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To Ben S (post #129),
SPQR was not an acronym of the same type under discussion, like pom is erroneously believed by some, or laser and radar, where the abbreviation creates a new word. There are very few examples of these acronyms before the 20th century in English (although, alphabetos in Greek is an early example in another language). The error is yours, not Des's, and makes your personalised attack on the man look foolish as well as rude.
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So Vaughan has one particularly bad series with the bat albeit potentially sealing England's first series win abroad since 2005 and most posters on here are calling for him to be dropped?!
Strauss (who I see is now flavour of the month after calls for his head days ago) scores his first century since 2006 after many poor series and loyalty by the selectors is now certain of his place in the team.
What is wrong with sticking with this (possibly) winning team and supporting them rather than always looking for someone to drop?
Many posters have extremely short memories...
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I think a lot of harsh criticism is being aimed at Vaughan. Since his return to the side he has hit 2 centuries and played some important innings. As to the bowling line up, although Monty has had a good day i think his time might be up. Judging by the lack of discussion about it I'm guessing not many people know that Saqulain Mushtaq is eligible and wants to play for England from the begininning of next summer. He is a proven world class spin bowler and is capable of winning test matches. Hoggard should get a recall at the expense of Anderson and if Freddy is going to play this summer i think Bell should be dropped. If you take out his 7 matches against Pakistan then his average falls from 45 to 37.
I also believe Ambrose should be dropped because he can't always score large numbers of runs and if he is dropping catches and missing stumpings then he is not international standard.
Tecwyn - there are a number of possible reasons why it's "pom" but nobody is sure.
Thank you for reading all that
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Given earlier comment, Broad could well develop into the best No.9.
To be controversial, given current form, how about dropping Vaughan for Ramprakash and making Collingwood captain? Just a thought. With Freddie at 7 for Anderson this would be a very well balanced side. Discuss.
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Haven't read all previous. Flintoff is not worth his place, nor Strauss. Go with Bopara, Rashid, some other new blood; we must invest in giving these newcomers real opportunities to prevent the hot/cold performances over last 4/5 years.
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Given earlier comment, Broad could well develop into the best No.9.
To be controversial, given current form, how about dropping Vaughan for Ramprakash and making Collingwood captain? Just a thought. With Freddie at 7 for Anderson this would be a very well balanced side. Discuss.
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Flintoff isn't a reliable enough performer with the bat to replace one of the six incumbent test batsman. Is he indeed going to shoulder a full load of bowling after his latest unfortunate injury? If he can, then he should replace Anderson and bat at seven. If not then Anderson should be replaced by Hoggard...who shouldn't have been dropped in the first place.
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Well the debate on which batsmen to drop is a very simple one really there is one batsman in the current England team who does not deserve to be there & is living on a past reputation & the protection of the Captancy. This may cause controvesy but drop Vaughan give Strauss back his opening berth alongside Cook, Collingwood for captain,
the team would look like this:
Cook
Strauss
Bell
Pieterson
Collingwood (captain)
Flintoft
Ambrose
Broad
Sidebottom
Jones (if fit) if not Hoggard
Panesar
a reasonably well balenced team I think
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World cricket has lost one of the game’s gentlemen with the retirement of NZ captain Stephen Fleming this week. During the past 12 months international cricket has experienced a number of incidents that could only be exhibited by less mature players whose natural talent has been hijacked by their ego driven arrogance or their own stupidity.
It was no PR exercise that the English team formed a guard of honour when Fleming made his way to the middle for the last time. It was no alcohol induced prank that had the Barmy Army stood as one to honour the man and the occasion.
As a New Zealander it gave me great pride to see one of our own so honoured by the opposition and for that moment the game of cricket exhibited the traditions that holds the game in such high esteem. Thank you for the memories Flem, and thank you England for honouring this occasion with such dignity and respect.
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my team for lords first test, assuming everyone is fit would be
1.cook
2.bell( opening would concentrate his mind i would hope)
3.ramprakash
4.pietersen
5. collingwood ( capt)
6.flintoff
7.mustard
8.rashid
9.broad
10.sidebottom
11.panesar
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i would bring back simon jones when fit, his ability to find the reverse swing would be welcomed as our bowling has been poor, apart from sidebottom
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The old maxim is that you shouldn't change a winning side,and this one is just about to register two test wins on the trot away from home.I think I'm right in saying that this was last done by England in the West Indies four years ago.Of course a fully fit Freddie would strengthen the side,but I think he needs to play some serious cricket with Lancashire regularly to prove that he is back and to get some match fitness.I think the new selection committee seem prepared to make difficult decisions and if somebody is not contributing then they will not hesitate to drop them.I admire Vaughan as a captain(leaving aside his field settings for Anderson),but he needs to contribute.The game is in flux at the moment,and we need a strong England side to maintain the sport's profile and to take advantage of the window of opportunity that non English participation at Euro 2008 provides.
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Nice astute comments re Broad, Aggers - I struggle to imagine his Dad, Chris, as a fast bowler though! Thinking of Chris Broad always brings back memories of Ashes in 1986/7 Down Under.
A special word for Stephen Fleming - a pleasure to watch, makes an intelligent, interesting interviewee (I never heard him say the words you know or look or other irritations) and I think he will be greatly missed by NZ. I really like Vettori and wish him well but I can't help but think that Fleming had a couple of seasons left in him to treat crowds the world over (and me this summer in England) to his often sublime and always classy left-handedness and improve that under-achiever tag. All the best for the future, Stephen, from a genuine fan!
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drop Vaughan hasn't proved anything for too long.
Collingwood for captain,
the team would look like this:
Cook
Bell
Pieterson
Collingwood (captain)
Flintoft/tremlett
Ambrose
Shah
Broad
Sidebottom
Hoggard
Panesar
Swann
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OK lets pretend I'm a selector, here's what I'd have to consider...
Point 1: The openers
A left-right combo is essenitals because it forces the opening bowlers to change their line often and it stops them getting into a groove.
Best left-hander is Cook, best right-handed opener is umm...err...well it looks like we have no choice with vaughan, can anyone actually think of a test-quality right handed opener? i can't...
Point 2: 3 to 6
First big issue here. Personally I'd have Ramprakash, Pietersen, Collingwood and Bell. However, there are other contenders in this area, including Strauss (just needs a good season of CC), Ed Joyce and Carberry. No Flintoff, he's just not fit enough.
Point 3: The wicketkeeper
The Chris Read cult continues, however a Test average of under 20 is simply not good enough for a wicketkeeper. Of course wikcetkeeping ability should come first, so for that reason I'd have Ben Foster in there. Fantastic with the gloves and adept with the bat.
Point 4: The seam attack
Sidebottom is a must. Which leaves us with Broad, Anderson and Hoggard. Anderson is simply not good enough for test cricket, which gives us Broad and Hoggard, sorted.
Point 5: The spinner
Must be in on bowling ability, not all-roundedness. For this reason Panesar is the man. Being cack with the bat didn't stop Phil Tuffnell. Rashid is a good all-rounder but nothing more, we need a proper test-quality spinner in the side, and Rashid is not this.
Point 6: The captain
Has to be someone with experience and a brilliant cricket brain, and the best cricket brain belongs to Andrew Strauss, however seeing as he is not in the side yet the captaincy is handed back to Vaughan...for now...
So the team then:
Cook
Vaughan (c)
Ramprakash
Pietersen
Collingwood
Bell
Foster
Broad
Sidebottom
Hoggard
Panesar
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I am not expecting him to take 5 for 70 (if he did, it would be outstanding) but I do hope we see more in the way of experimentation.
---------------
Monty continues to confound your expectation of him aggers ; long may it continue!!!!!
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In my opinion Anderson should be dropped and Hoggy brought back in for the first test in the summer. Despite his clear ability I dont think Anderson has the accuracy or control to make it as a test bowler. Let us not forget that he has been around the England set-up for 4/5 years now and has been given plenty of chances. Compare Anderson to Broad in this current match and you'd think it was Anderson playing in only his second test!
Regarding the return of Flintoff I think everybody needs to take a step back, let him get some matches under his belt at county level and then consider bringing him back. Let us not forget what can happen when people are rushed back from injury! I think this series has proved that we dont necessarily need him against NZ in the summer so why not bring him back after the NZ series.
Totally agree about TMS. The one person who makes me sit up and listen everytime he comes on is Boycs. Talks absolute sense without letting patriotism cloud his judgement. I've had enough of commentators like Beefy and Paul Allott getting on their soapboxes about the most trivial matters. Anybody who watched the Sky coverage yesterday morning during the period before England's declaration will know what I mean!
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Why is everyone discussing Flintoff's return to the England side at Lords?
Somebody earlier on mentioned summer and swallows when talking about Strauss, can't the same be levelled at Flintoff bowling for five overs?
We need to be careful that we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater as far as this England side is concerned. Freddie needs to prove he can bowl 15-20 overs a day. I agree with Geoffrey, Lord Boycott, that Fred is a bowling all-rounder, Fintoff's batting is secondary to his bowling. That's not to say that his batting is not important, but I would prefer him to bat a seven or even eight. That may give him more leeway in both his batting and bowling as it may take the pressure from his shoulders, allowing him to be a freeer player. I agree that he needs to be back in the England side but not at any cost.
As for bowlers for the Lords test is concerned, Hoggy for Jimmy and everyone else as is. JA needs, at least, a full season of county cricket to allow him to become more consistant with his bowling. I like Anderson and would like to see more of him in the England side but he needs to become more consistant. Could the bowling patnerships be Hoggard and Broad and Sidebottom and Panassar? Could Collingwood spend a bit more time becoming a better fifth/sixth bowler? What about Simon Jones when he's fit? Has Harmy had his day? I think so.
On the captain issue, why would you want to drop someone who is arguably one of the top two captains in world cricket today? So he doesn't score a century everytime he goes out to bat, but he thinks, he watches, he attacks. If he has a weakness, it is that he leaves his bowlers to themselves for too long sometimes. There are occasions when he could spend a bit of time just chatting to the bowler, asking him if he's happy with his field, help the bowler, to use a management phrase, take ownership of the situation. Bowlers can't just be left to get on with it just because they know what they are doing.
A few cats amongst the pigeons? I hope so. Just a few thoughts.
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English cricket is still of a poor quality. No consistency and not enough bottle. The Ashes series will be one sided, and the aussies will be victorious. I would not be buying tickets for any of the 4th or 5th day of the tests.
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Now that England have wraped up the series its a time to reflect not just on the game itself but the team as a whole! A. cook - did ok opening the batting avraged over 30 in the series but is very a uncertain player outside his off stump but he is still young and will improve. M. Vaughan overall a very poor series from the skipper was not leading from the front when the team was down batting wise ok got a unplayable ball 1st inings off the last test match but second inings what the hell was he trying to do? i think he needs to go back to county cricket and get back into form for the nz home series in may. Kev pietersen did not look hiself 1st test but people could argue the state off the wicket pietersen does not like slow and low wickets. The second and 3rd test back to good old pietersen looked good the hundred gave him a good bit more confidence which i think kp thrives on. Personaly i think kp should go back to the way what made him who he is and such a big cricket star today atacking pace atacks comeing at them i dont know if anyone who reads this message seen what happend when young tim southee took on panasar and anderson they the bowlers did not have a response to that unlike when panasar was bowling maiden after maiden to the kiwis top 5 and picking up wickets and i will also add that panasar needs to vary his pace alot more if he is going to be one off the worlds best spinners the good thing is that he is a young cricketer but he cannot bowl at 55mph every single delivery for all his carrer otherwise good batsmen worth their salt will go after him most off the time overall Take nothing away from England they bounced back brillianty from 1-0 down but they have to look at more youth comeing through. This will be my test team for may 15 at lords in order and reasons why!
Cook: Young very hot tallent i would say established opener.
Strauss: Got alot more runs in him yet will make him more hungry now he got the big centry in the last test
vaughan:(c) Personaly and taticaly englands best captain ever but needs to get some big runs in the nz tests in may.
Pietersen: Exellent player needs to be more hungry for runs like he first was when he first came on the test and odi scene.
bell: Got bundles off talent bursting to come out gets out alot once he passes 50s needs to focus a bit more.
Collingwood: The next captain for england a fighter on the field tries his best shane warne has in my opnion got it all wrong about him calling him a nudger and a nurdeler can be as hard hitting with the bad as proved in the nz odi"s.
Ambrose: Very early on in his test carrer have not seen him play that much for his county but judgeing him by the test series he seems a decent enough keeper and has the third highest avrage off the series missed a few droped catches but what keeper does not? also still young
Broad: a great prospect for england i could see him takeing bundles off wickets for england before he is done bowls great line and length pace will get up as he devlopes to late 80"s early 90"s mph also very handy with the bat which england has been searching for for years being a number seven batsmen. Has made himself on the verge off a all rounder and will only get better.
Sidebottom: Been a great servant to english cricket for a long while now for notts and since he came in to the international scene a man who tries his heart out got what he deserves in this series being a bundle off wickets had a tough time in sri lanka most off the chances were droped off his bowling can also hang around a bit with the bat.
Hoggard: This man has certainley not done with his test carrer yet also been a great servant to english cricket i think the selectors have made the biggest mistake ever by dropping him for one bad game in the 1st test the pitch in the first test was a very unresponseive one off that but still a great line and length bowler unlike jim anderson who to me gives me the thinking off he is dangerious on a swining pitch but just is not intrested when things does not go his way with hoggard he will bowl overs and maidens and get you wickets on a unresponseive pitch cast you mind back to sri lanka when he took seven in a innings recentley.
Panasar: well englands hero a loveable person who to me will become one off crickets best spin bowlers off all time if he can learn to vary his pace a bit more. He works very hard on his fielding and batting and is been a great strike bowler for england since he has come on the scene also i think he should play more odi"s that will only make him a much better bowler i can see him becomeing one off the spin greats. Thanks for reading
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I cannot believe the negative comments about Vaughan on this blog.
How utterly stupid can people be? As Gus Fraser commented, his field placings are meticulous; as Stephen Fleming commented, he is so subtle in the way he organises the team.
When Vaughan has been hounded out by the media and people who think they know what they're talking about suddenly you'll see the difference ....... At the moment there's nobody to replace him and that's a fact not an emotive comment. I've been watching cricket for 50 years, and have several relatives who've played at professional level, and I can't think of any captain who compares with Michael Vaughan....
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