Stubborn Fletcher no longer the grey man
I have known Duncan Fletcher for a long time.
Obviously is going to hit the headlines.
But I really don鈥檛 think it was a cynical ploy by Fletcher to sell more copies of his book.
I knew Fletcher well as a player and then as a coach and we had a very good working relationship. But he is the most stubborn person you are ever likely to meet.
A lot of what we have seen in the serialisation of his book appears to be trying to deflect criticisms that came his way.
He will still say the side that went to Australia to defend the Ashes a year ago was and he will continue to say that until he鈥檚 blue in the face.
We know he did a lot of good for England by taking them from the bottom of the pile in 1999 to Ashes winners six years later, but there were times he could not take a step back to see what was right in front of him.
He was omnipotent and a number of his decisions went unchecked, especially in terms of preparation for the Ashes tour.
A lot of coaches want the overall control that Duncan had but you have to be able to listen to other people.
Fortunately, following the Schofield Review, the ECB has changed.
in a position above the coach and is someone the coach can go to if there鈥檚 an alcohol problem or if he needs some extra help for whatever reason.
Fletcher did not have that back-up last winter but I was a bit surprised he was so strong in his comments about Flintoff.
We all knew about the 鈥楩redalo鈥 incident in St Lucia, but now something has been dredged up that had not been in the public domain.
Fletcher always preached that if you were in the team bubble it was exactly that - you were loyal to everyone else within it. As soon as you did anything to disturb the equilibrium you were chucked out.
Now he is out of the bubble and is suddenly lobbing stones all over the place, and Flintoff will feel horribly let down and feel Fletcher has been disloyal.
I was on the Australia tour and there were .
But I do think these have to be kept in context. He is after all a young bloke who had been away from home for 100-odd days.
Having said all of that I am really pleased that people are writing interesting books rather than the soporific ghosted rubbish that generally appears in the bookstalls.
The revelations in this book will have surprised people who viewed Fletcher as a colourless, uninspiring public figure who was as grey as his hair.
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Fletcher has been extremely disloyal, but then so was Freddie by letting his coach, team and country down with his drinking. No body seems to have come out of this with much credit. Though I do have to confess I will definitely be buying the book!
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It should not be forgotten that Duncan Fletcher helped to haul the England cricket team out of the wilderness up to being the second best test team in the world. After we won the ashes back he was a miracle worker, however when we get beaten by the aussies later on its all his fault.
As far as Flintoff's drinking goes I don't have a problem with Fletcher writing about it, the problem I have is that he couldn't stop it. As a coach he should have been stronger.
I see it didn't take Boycott long to jump on the band wagon. I wonder if he'd have been so quick if Fletcher had been more complimentary about him.
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Hang on a minute, it should be kept in context that the England captain showed up for practice drunk?
IMO this merely highlights the fact that Flintoff is no captain. Great player when on song and sober, great team man blah blah blah, all true.
Captaincy is another skill entirely, his personality is simply not cut out for it.
The best player(and remember that since 2005 he's more or less been only a bowler in form terms) is NOT necessarily the best captain. Botham wasn't a captain either, or Gower.
I thought when they appointed Hussain and then Vaughan, they'd got over that schoolboy error.
Who is the "captain-in-waiting" to follow Vaughan in the current team now? If there isn't one, they should be looking for one.
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Is it too cynical of me to suggest that Fletcher did nothing about Flintoff on tour as he knew he would be leaving the England side soon after, and if he kept quiet then told all in his book then he'd get more sales?
Unfortunately, all the good that Fletcher did turning English cricket around is being buried underneath one shoddy tour which featured a scandalously underprepared side (which he still refuses to admit), 'favouritism' selections (Giles and Jones?!! I still don't see how) and an inability to reprimand Flintoff for fear of a media backlash.
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I for one believe that Fletcher was correct in divulging this information.
Sportsmen (women) are high profile and their behaviour influences the next generation.
What does it say to the youth when a high profile sportsman (and captain of the team) pitches up at practice drunk?
That he had been away from home for 100 days is hardly an excuse!
Why should it have remained a secret confined to the "inner bubble"? Clearly this did not help in Barbados!
Now that everyone is aware, I think Mr Flintoff may think twice before indulging on a business trip!
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Fletcher, now part of the cricketing media circuit - in so much as he's out of a job - has as much right to comment on a players behaviour as say that of Nasser Hussain, Beefy, Agers et al. Every pundit the length and breadth of the country have criticised freddie for his failure to curb his boozing. Understandable, if not justifiable, as a young player this part of his character has not been controlled regardless of the rise in his performances as a player. Why the furore over Fletcher's comments? Isn't he more acutely positioned to comment with greater insight? And, surely, as a coach twice scorned, does he not merit a say? Furthermore, shouldn't his comments finally shake the cricketing public from their nebulous and hazy infatuation with our national sporting treasure? The truth is surely that since those halcyonic summer afternoon's, that almost escape me they seem so long ago, freddie has failed repeatedly to deal with the additional burden of hero du jour? With captaincy comes a greater sense of who one is, and furthermore an acceptance that you are not "one of the boys". More a paternal figure, sometimes loved, sometimes hated, but fundamentally always respected. Freddie faiiled to understand, and apply this complex quirk to leadership and fell into the ranks, of men who follow. Drinking and pranking in the trenches. His greatest failure, and perhaps that of the selectors, was to know that he commanded this without requiring the label of "skipper". Fletchers comments strike me as those of a man stung by the behaviour of several leading players and also that of a man who has never truly been revered for his part in the great english cricketing revolution. Surely, we should allow him his say and react not with anger and condemnation but with a readiness to accept that idols can fall. And in falling we should celebrate the times that they soared and scorched the sky bright with their brilliance, only to dim once more into the bleakness of ordinariness.
w
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Mr. Fletcher's work of literary genius is the standard ghost written fare...his scribe of choice being the ex Glamorgan and twice England opening bat Steve James. In the standard mould to ensure tabloid/broadsheet serialistion rights he has to borderline libel prominent name(s)to hook in Fleet Street and their money. Fletcher has sold the future trust he may have hoped to gain from a County or International squad for money.
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I have been surprised and dissapointed at the response to Fletcher's revelations. When it comes time for Freddie to retire he will surely serialise his feelings, and Boycs and Both have made plenty of room to air their thoughts on Fleth. It is good that Aggers can offer a balanced view on Fletch as most of what i have read has been character criticisms, not cricket ones.
Sadly, this is a symptom of a condescending and insular English media. As Aggers says, this information about Fred has been in circulation for a while, but not to us in the cheap seats - those of us who go to matches, buy SKY packages and spend money on replica gear [and buy the biogs too!]
Aggers' voice is the clearest in England at the moment, and he isn't drawn to make bold statements for the sake of it - long may he continue to relay the game to us.
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This is unwanted for English Cricket . The fact that these things are brought out now albeit for the sake of selling a book is a true reflection of Fletcher's pithy and uncompramising attitude. He needs to understand the fact that Flintoff is a true sportsman and doesn't deserve this kind of treatment. Its high time the English bosses wake up from the Ashes euphoria of bygone days and condemn the Book written by this fellow.
Keeping these things in the context will only do a damage to English Cricket and doesn't help anybody.Flintoff is a true Talisman (and such indiscretions are not unpardonable)and Fletcher was not the only fellow who worked to regain those ashes in 2005. There were 11 or 14 others.
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Duncan Fletcher is now well within his rights to say whatever he feels about certain situations that have occured in the past. At the time of the incident he's going to keep it away from the media circus to protect his players from a press hounding but now he's out of it, and with Flintoff injured perhaps this issue had to be addresed. As England captain you have to set an example, but you do have to let your hair down on occasions. I would like to think that freddie has had a good dressing down from his missus which would have more effect than any media comments!!!
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Fletcher did the right thing in telling the truth. As tax payers we are funding the English players' trips abroad and they are shaming our country with performances like that in the Ashes. Now to find out that our captain and supposed legend was getting drunk is a disgrace and makes our hard earned money seem more of a waste.
Flintoff should expect not to play for England again. He is too injury prone, temperamental, and aside from a 12 month period is nothing more than a slogger with the bat. He is no all rounder.
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Duncan Fletcher's book re-opens the wounds of nearly a year ago, on the eve of the ill-fated Ashes Tour. Cast your mind back to this time lasy year, and we were all looking forward to a close contest in Autralia for a change. How quickly we were were let down by basic errors made before the tour party left, and during the tour itself.
The Selectors decided to disregard the excellent captaincy of Strauss and reinstated the previously injured Flintoff as captain, a decision which we are still paying for twice over..on the one hand we have a crest fallen all rounder who may never be the same for England again,(ask any Australian, they rate Fredie highly as a player and one of the lads, but as a captain?) on the other a dropped opening batsman who arguably lost form and confidence because of the shabby way he was treated a year ago.
We handed the first test to Australia because we were so undercooked, 11 Ethelreads or 12 if you factor in Fletcher as well. The heroics at Adelaide were so badly wasted by poor team selection, where playing Monty wold have made such a difference...as we landed in Perth after the first day of the third test, I clearly recall the backpage headline even though it was 4am when we finally reached our hotel.."the Fools who wouldnt pick Monty" after he had taken 5 first innings wickets...the rest is history Im afraid...lets hope we learn the lessons when we return to Australia in 2010/11.
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I am a Flintoff fan, however i believe that playing for your country is a massive honour. This should not be abused or taken for granted. Yet Flintoff is a player who consistently gives his all for England. Even when he is not fully fit or on form he still puts in a good performance and is often our best bowler. Despite Flintoff's lapses in judgement i find the recent revelations from Fletcher cruel and unecessary. Flintoff has apologised for his conduct and it should all be left in the past. Fletcher has broken his golden rule 'what happens in the team, stays in the team'. Surely that is something he should continue to respect even though he is no longer coach? My biggest problem with Fletcher's revelations is the fact he did not act at the time. If Flintoff showed up for practise under the influence why not take away his captaincy and make him miss matches then? If action had been taken at the time, maybe a repeat performance would not have occurred at the world cup. Most importantly i find it incredibly difficult to understand why Fletcher and other members of the England set up did not do anything to help Flintoff. The whole team had been away from their home and families for a long time. Many players, past and present, have struggled with the pressures of this. Surely if any person is showing signs of turning to alcohol in times of stress and pressure everything should be done to ensure that person recieves the help and support they need. I find it disturbing that Fletcher did not do this and has now chosen to voice these issues.
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I can accept several views on this whole thing, for example:
"We're all in this together. We win together, we lose together, we all take responsibility, no one is going to blame anyone else. What happens on tour stays on tour. United front and all that."
or
"Heck. I've been criticized and fired. I'm going to have my say and tell my side of the whole story."
A couple of things I am curious about:
Does FF's agent advise him? If so, does FF listen? What about FF's wife --- if not for her sake, but for their kids' sake?
Surely something is in written in tour contracts and other contracts about conduct and professionalism? And about representing your team (country or county). Does anyone counsel players about being in the public eye? Or are they surrounded by sycophants?
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Do the countless bio's by alex ferguson, mourinho, clive woodward, arsene wenger etc etc etc create such widespread condemnation when they disclose countless dressing room spats and rows??? surely not. The argument "what happens on tour, stays on tour" is surely an antiquated concept. Lets all just grow up and worry about what reallt matters in life. Sport is sport and the operatic avarice that runs sidde by side is pure theatre that diverts us from the real issues at hand.
w
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I will be buying Fletcher's book for sure, it looks like it is going to be a good read.
I find it really funny Boycott sounding
off, he has just about slagged everybody off in the cricket world to sell his boring books.
Then there is Blofeld who seems to take great pleasure in making stupid comments about the current crop of players, time for him to be put out to grass.
Aggers views I find are always well balanced I do not always agree with him but can see where he is coming from.
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'Sir' Ian Botham must shoulder a lot of the blame here. He was my childhood hero, is certainly the greatest living English cricketer, and arguably one of the greatest ever.
But no one can argue that he could have been great for so much longer had he not boozed his way through the 80's in the seeming belief that he could replicate Headingley '81 at any time. The truth is he rarely ever did again.
It is the worst possible role model for Flintoff to have. He's already had 'issues' with diet and fitness and is suffering from a career threatening ankle injury. Of course the guy should be able to get drunk with his mates once in a while... but there were 40,000 of us who spent a fortune watching England get slaughtered in Oz last winter, and we wouldn't have been too amused to know that our skipper was partying hard all the while.
Fletcher is entitled to say what he likes. He no doubt feels let down. I think we all should. By Flintoff. And by Botham.
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Quite right, Aggers. Fletcher's stubbornness has been both his biggest strength and biggest weakness. Before him, England selections changed with the wind (and the media), some players being supported to the hilt and some treated very poorly. Fletcher identified a potentially winning set of players and forged them into a fantastic unit by 2005, probably having to fight his corner pretty hard behind the scenes.
After that, however, he had no plan B when injuries and loss of form hit, and seemingly couldn't accept that players outside his unit could possibly be better than those within it. Now it seems that he can't accept that he made any mistakes and is trying to deflect the blame onto others. It's real shame because his real achievements could well now be obscured by tabloid headlines that are already backfiring (why did he appoint Flintoff as captain in the first place, why not deal with the problem at the time, breaking dressing room confidentiality).
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The latest instalment of Duncan Fletcher鈥檚 autobiography continues to reveal that we really are in the children鈥檚 playground with Fletcher the biggest tell-tale. Everybody is to blame but Duncan. He didn鈥檛 pick the teams, oh no: it was a mixture at various times of selectors, Mike Atherton, Nasser Hussain, Mike Selvey, senior players like Collingwood, Geraint Jones and let鈥檚 not forget the everpresent even when absent Michael Vaughan 鈥 the man who, whilst not in the 2006/07 Australian touring party, selected Paul Nixon. So much for taking responsibility, Duncan.
Fletcher鈥檚 continued debunking of Chris Read goes on apace. We now know that in the West Indies Read was concerned that he left a catch which he should have gone for. To me, that suggests that Read is a self-critical professional (Hopefully Jones and Prior have been equally self-questioning and humble, after their many errors). What is revealing is that this is reported by Fletcher as something he overheard Read saying to himself; didn鈥檛 the coach discuss this weakness with the player? Whatever, surely Fletcher cannot be saying that Jones was the better keeper? All the correspondents on that WI tour commended Read for the way he kept on difficult wickets, so difficult in fact that the likes of Vaughan and Trescothick were outscored in the innings they all batted in by none other than Chris Read.
The second point of criticism levelled at Read really is kindergarten stuff. It is the 5th test in Sydney. Under their occasionally drunken captain England have lost the previous 4 tests. Vaughan has summonsed Nixon to be the one day keeper. Yet Read is about to establish a world record of taking 6 victims in 3 consecutive Test innings (worthy of a passing reference, Duncan?). He鈥檚 standing next to Collingwood MBE, team selector and leading team posturer (known as 鈥渢ough-guy鈥 by the Aussies) who is sledging Warne. Fantastic. Nice choice Colly. Just 4-0 down. Perhaps Read felt that sledging Warne might be a tad counter-productive, or childish, or wondered that this is why they have brought out Nixon 鈥 they can keep it. (Nixon of course was later to energise England both in their late night drinking and winning World Cup campaign). Read's lack of involvement seems eminently sensible to me.
Fletcher's legacy to wicketkeeping for England: always sledge, be brash and loud. Bristle. Be hypocritical by traducing non-walkers even though you don't walk yourself. So what if you can't keep wicket very well. It doesn't matter.
Pathetic.
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This whole debate seems extraordinary. It sounds to me as if Flintoff has a serious problem with alcohol abuse, and the England management ought to be helping him deal with it. All this "one of the lads blowing off steam" excuse just doesn't cut it in the modern world of highly paid professional athletics.
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Proves J Agnew's native tongue is Baloney, or some such word!
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If what is being said by Fletcher about the behaviour of Flintoff is correct then Flintoff should not play for England again. When you are selected to represent your country it places upon you as an individual certain duties and responsibilities; if you are unhappy with those duties and responsibilities they you decline the opportunity to play. Furthermore, when you represent your country and you are captain, you have added responsibilities not only to your country but also to your team mates. In my view, Flintoff failed to uphold and adhere to the duties and responsibilities placed on him and which clearly he accepted, by his behaviour. We did not lose the Ashes series we were whitewashed 5-0!
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Fletcher is no longer employed by the ECB. He is doing nothing different to any recent retired sportsman/coach, writing a book and making a few quid. If you're going to write a book and want to sell copies, may as well not hold back on your thoughts and feelings. It certainly makes interesting reading. No doubt, when Freddie retires, he'll say something similar, lets hope he doesn't hold back either.
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I "knew" Duncan Fletcher when he was Glamorgan coach. He was remote to say the least in a County which is a family with a capital F.If he ever returns to county cricket I hope it is not with Glammy!
He disassociates himself with normal people and now slags off cricketing "greats"....why would the "England" dressing room refer to Ian Botham - sorry SIR Ian - as Botham... it would be Both or Beefy...
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Interesting article, Aggers.
I think that Fletcher has every right to comment about behaviour which affected his own job and also the performance of the team as a whole - he's left nearly a year before writing this book, quite unlike the two ex-international rugby players who are currently making news. It may be that Fletcher was rather weak in not sacking FF on the spot. However, those who see issues like this in black and white might like to consider what such a sacking would have done to the Ashes campaign, the team as a whole, and, assuming Andrew Strauss was asked to be captain in that hypothetical situation, how it would have affected him.
It's all so easy to criticise from the sidelines. If Fletcher by bringing this matter into the open now has highlighted an incipient drinking problem in FF which the hierarchy have hitherto been unwilling to face up to, then he may well have done that lovely chap a great service. FF can do without false friends like Ian Botham, who I understand encouraged him on one of these drinking sprees, that's for sure.
Why are ex-players and has-beens allowed to hang around the team if they have no specific role? They should be told to clear off - they've had their chance.
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This is a curious story. Flintoff was seen getting very drunk in Barbados a few days after 'Fredalo', but the UK press never got hold of it as it was a small bar. He was massively unprofessional in his drinking habits during the Australia Ashes and the World Cup and I think comments saying the management should have stepped in to help are valid. I think there are many more stories to come out over Freddie and his drinking, sad to say, but hopefully the attention will eventually benefit Flintoff, and England. Trying to hide your best player's unprofessional drinking habit is never going to help the team and clearly has not helped Feddie.
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I agree with Martin Samuel in 'The Times' today. What this whole episode is showing is incredible weakness on the part of Fletcher. He reflects criticism of selections on to others, he appears to do nothing about Flintoff's drinking problem and fails to accept any responsibility for the poor mistakes he made during the Ashes. Furthermore, it is also pathetic how Fletcher can't seem to take any form of media criticism. Boycott can be annoying but he has raised some valid points about Fletcher. Flintoff is a fool but an invaluable fool when he is fit so worth perservering with. But Fletcher - good book but we don't miss you.
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Duncan Fletcher clearly feels he needs to tell his side of the story. There are positive and negative sides to this though, and I would question the timing of this publication.
England were bottom of the league when Fletcher took over and were second in the league when he left.
Many people said after the Ashes series win in 2005, myself included, that the return series would see a much harder Australia. Those warnings were not heeded.
Fletcher played favourites too often. Would Ryan Sidebottom and James Anderson have come back as they have were Fletcher still in charge?
Fletcher cared little for county cricket, unlike Peter Moores. Fletcher couldn't handle it if someone was a player who preferred to play their way back into form rather than carrying drinks tray after drinks tray.
If you're writing a book about bad management then there are plenty of lessons from sport and Fletcher's public criticism of Chris Read is a good example of bad management.
Personally when I'm on the field I prefer to shut up and concentrate on my game. Maybe Read does too, which could well be why he's a better keeper than Jones. Not everyone is going to kick your door down, argue with you and then perform with that element of spite just because you slag them off in public. Failed to understand the person there.
Then there's Monty. Fletcher failed there too. Dropping Monty for Gilo when he's still refining his new action? No fault of Gilo, just Fletcher failing.
Then there's Sir Geoffrey. Said something on another website about coaches having a sell by date. He was right. To the tune of Australia 5 - 0 England.
The timing of this publication would be of great interest to potential employers. Fletcher has said he'd like to go back to county cricket. After the disrespect he showed the game? After making public the ins and outs of the dressing room?
The lure of the lucre played its part here. I hope he's going to get enough for his retirement because were I a county chairman I wouldn't hire Fletcher as a coach. Someone's already said county clubs are like families. When one of the coaches is the moody emo teenager spitting bile everywhere that does nothing for the family.
Duncan Fletcher did some good things for English cricket and one great one. He should have left the job then. Managers have a limited shelf life before their approach runs out of gas. Fletcher didn't recognise that and now looks to be having a go at various people because of it.
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We all owe Fletcher a lot more than Flintoff for England's good form in the last 7 years.
Flintoff is out of his depth as captain. He didn't lead against Australia, he was too busy making friends with Australian rather than trying to intimidate them.
And Fletcher is not hanging Flintoff out to dry (no pun intended) They gave him chances to sort himself out in Oz and it didn't work - see World cup pedalo.
Flintoff's mgmt team have worked hard in the past to curb his 'lifestyle' - which includes diet - and it hasn't worked. Flintoff needs to work out if he wants to be a great cricketer again or just someone who takes the VW / Barclays / Woodworm money and writes books. The ball is in his court, and he should stop whingeing via his dad / paul nixon about how Fletcher treats him. Grow up.
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Agers is very fair in his comments as it can only be cricket where the real issues are covered up to the detriment of the paying public. What the tour atmosphere must have been like for those england pros who had to live with the captain's behaviour for weeks on end one can only guess. At the end of the day it is all about leadership and that has been demonstrably missing in english cricket from the top down ever since Michael Vaughan unfortunately left the scene. What might have been with Andrew Strauss we will never know but england missed out on a man tailormade to follow in MV's shoes being both a leader and intelligent with it. I am a lifelong Lancashire fan but fully respect DF's right to free speech on this.
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At last, a book is coming out after a player/ in this instance coach has finished his career.
The usual books that come out today are from players who have hardly done anything, Pietersen, Strauss and Panesar to mention a few.
I tend to not buy these books for two reasons.
1: The player has not finished his career and therefore will not saying anything remotely controversial.
2: There is so much more to happen in that career, so wait until the end.
Fletcher is right to speak out now and I think it should be public knowledge that Flintoff went around Australia drinking. I remember during that ill-fated ashes tour that I would blame Fletcher for everything and he had to carry the can- interview after interview.
I am not denying it might be tough for the team during an Ashes tour, but it is their job- TO BE PROFESSIONAL CRICKET PLAYERS. Spare a thought for the spectators who potentially saved up for years to go on a once in a lifetime trip.
I was one of them and am disgusted at the revelations of Flintoff鈥檚 drinking. In all my professional career I have never turned up to work/ a meeting drunk.
Peace out.
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for all the good he did us, the book shows the lack of professionalism in our team. we walked around thinking we were number 2 in the world and got beaten by india.. a team that was more talented and professional. time to get back to reality..when are the west indies due??
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The sad fact of all this is that Freddie is unlikely to ever recapture the fitness, let alone the form, required to produce those performances of 2005. As a Lancastrian I find that very sad. Hes is an extremely talented and likeable young man who enjoys life as other young men of his age do. The fact that neither he nor the management around him have found a way to make him behave more professionally while captaining his country is equally sad. Let's hope Fletcher's words give Fred the kick in the pants he needs.
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It's pretty par for the course to let the public know exactly how some key players lost their responsibility for their country whilst on tour.
We can't expect managers, coaches etc to mask what they went through.
However, I agree with some comments G.Boycott made regarding the matter.
As England's coach, he should be their to help flintoff. He has to motivate and control the players, otherwise their positions in the side should be reviewed.
Perhaps the coach should have taken action at the time, rather than articles of information for financial gain now.
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I was in Melbourne - it wasn't just Flintoff getting smashed after a defeat inside 3 days but he's the one getting the headlines. At least Fred was courteous to the fans in the bar he was drinking in - a couple of his colleagues could learn a lesson or two from him on that score.
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Fletcher's achievements cannot be forgotten but his recent comments must be.
Freddie has been true servant of English cricket expressing his desire to play even when he is injured,now how many cricketers do that for their country?I am amazed how he found the courage to do such a thing to the most inspirational character of our team.Even if Fred had a problem why did Fletch try to wash dirty linenIn public and not solved it internally.Had he forgot the circumstances in which he took the captaincy in India,the no. Of over he put against Sri Lanka,just for the team.
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Fletcher not only had a right to tell this story he had a duty. I do not fully accept this disclosure as verbotem and will listen to every valid contributor,including Flintoff,who will no doubt have his say in due course. If it is as reported by Fletcher then Flintoff has behaved disgracefully and should come forward to refute the allegations or apologise to the country.
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if you want to slag freddy off now is the time because once he's back from injury and gets a good run of games im sure he'll win the fans back ! england aren't england without flintoff , theres no desire! no passion! i know flintoff will prove all his critics wrong includin druncan fletcher!
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Flintoff was captain and should set an example, end of. Why wasn't he sent home from the tour?
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Pathetic! Fletcher is utterly right to out Freddie if his behaviour was that bad. I absolutely agree with the other chap who blames much of it on Botham - not Both's fault but he gave the impression that winning a series effortless. Sadly we have created a culture where celebrities believe they are always right, and the saddest thing about this is that whatever the truth, Freddie could release a book tomorrow giving his side of things and it would race to the top of the bestseller list. Maybe they're all working together to rob us of our pocket money?
I love Boycott generally - one of the few people you could rely on to tell the truth even if the devil's poker was threatening your tender bits. However even he has a (massive?) ego and I think for once he should keep well out - unless he knows something we don't.
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How much longer are we English to blinker our view of sportsmen by declaring misbehaviour to be "youthful exuberance". Given that Flintoff will be 30 years old in a few weeks time, how can anything that happened less that a year ago be classed as "youthful" exuberance, for goodness sake.
This is a supposedly adult, responsible, married man with a young family, who had been given the incredible honour of captaining his country in the most important test series in the calendar, and yet he turns up to practice drunk.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of Fletcher's actions, or of revealing it now, Flintoff's claim that he has no drink problem is not borne out by the evidence before us ... the Ashes parade, the pedalo incident and now this.
If I showed up to work, or a work celebration, in that state, I would be fired on the spot ... and rightly so.
If Flintoff has a drink problem then he needs help and he needs it fast. If he doesn't (as he claims) then he is simply irresponsible and out of control and doesn't deserve to play for England ever again.
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You yourself talk about how "people are writing interesting books rather than the ghosted soporific rubbish" and how people will be surprised at the way fletcher comes across in this book (not his usual dull looking self). THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE BOOK AND THE REASON THE FREDDIE INCIDENT APPEARS. Because people like you want an "interesting book".
And then you try to defend him in the first para saying that Fletcher hasnt done it to sell more copies. ITS HILARIOUS, YOUR CONTRADICTIONS. NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY would have found his book of any interest (INCLUDING YOU), if he hadnt made it spicy with all these details. Of course, he has to come across as a lot more interesting than his totally boring personlaity suggests.
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If Fletcher's account is untrue, then Flintoff should sue for libel. If it is true, then I do not see why Fletcher should not tell it the way it was, rather than providing an expurgated version.
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Fletcher has jumped on the bandwagon with the book he seemed that he wanted to be one of the boys and when it came to the drinking problem with Flintoff he did not have enough authority and lost control as for making excuses for the players who step out of linewhere has the feeling gone that the greatest honour any sportsman can get is to represent your country dont they owe a debt to the supporters who have to save up for yeears in some instances for a once in a lifetime trip to cheer on their countrypride is a thing of the past money has taken over.
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C'mon, its not like anyone could be surprised by all of this,
Flintoff= a tlented guy who isn't a great example to others and enjoys a drink
Botham = once a great player, always a egotistical idiot
Boycott = See Above
But its always very satisfiying to read your own opinions in print... The "yeah I knew that" factor
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Agree with most of this above.
Flintoff not captain material
Botham and Boycott...great players now need jobs...best way is to be controversial keeps them in spotlight...
Fletcher dragged England from dregs to ashes win...but no-one to bounce his autonomy off.
Future Captain....?
Is Collingwood big enough to manage?
Is Strauss redeemable?
Are there contenders in younger guys,,,,,?
Bell?
Cook?
What about a bowler ....?
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There's only one thing I'm interested in ... why the heck did Fletch et al pick Flintoff for captain over Strauss for the 2006/7 Ashes? Huge mistake - picking the naughty boy for a prefect over the goodie two-shoes always goes wrong. It hurts both people and affects everyone else by giving the wrong message. We have lost Flintoff and Strauss and the team shot down the test and one day ratings becasue of that one stupid decision. Warne called it at the time. Warne is a genius and any time England makes a stupid decision (eg Giles over Panesar) and Warne says "silly poms" we should reverse it!
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I have never admired either Fletcher or Flintoff. I have never been impressed with either one -- both to me seem like a pair of stupid little dreamers with inflated egos. One is nothing but a lout who has a couple ounces of talent, a helluva luck and one heck of a drink issue. The same goes for the one who rested on his laurels after some okay victories, and got a head so fat it couldn't leave until it was deflated.
I'm happy that they will end up canceling each other out. Meanwhile, the real deal of cleaning up the pile of puke that Cheech and Chong...er, Flintoff and Fletcher have collectively retched continues. Now if England can shove those two aside into a side room, and play something called cricket, that'd be most appreciated.
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I think Duncan Fletcher is entitled to say what he likes, as long as he tells the truth. Many opinions have been publicised questioning his loyalty or propriety but I have yet to read anybody suggesting he has told anything other than the truth.
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Ricky Ponting had a serious drink problem a few years back, look at him now the man is on top of the world.
Flintoff is a brilliant allrounder,(still a very young man who likes to be lively at times & does not have a drink problem as Nixon testified)
please all don't spoil it for him he will sort himself out for sure.
We want to see him perform not only for England but the cricketing world for the next 5 years atleast.His sort
of a player gives alot of joy.
Perhaps Fletchers book is a blessing in disguise.
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Ive read quiet a bit of the serialistion of the book in this weeks mail and to be honest I agree an England Captain should know better than turning up drunk to practice I always thought Strauss should have been captain on that tour the snub has probably finished Strauss as a test player and possible Flintoff. Some of Fletchers thinking seems a bit dubious to me he wont admit he was wrong to drop Monty and play Giles who had been injured for 12 months before the 1st Ashes test where as Monty had been bowling well and Fletcher tries in the book to Rubblish Monty as a bowler saying Giles was a better bowler and all the team knew that so we went with him, what Rubbish.
Whats intresting in the book is that the selecters dont seem to know what they are doing and ive thought for a while Graveney is passed his sell by date and should be replaced by someone such as Mike Atherton or Graham Gooch
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I agree with Aggers this was not a ploy to sell more books. The sad thing is that neither Flintoff or Fletcher come out of this as 'a winner', people seldom do in these type of situations. The good news is that when Freddie comes back fit and firing this will be forgotten about very quickly.
As for Fletcher's book, not bad as autobiography's go, but not a patch on "Fatty Batter" - just simply the funniest, true to life and fantastically written cricketing book you will ever read.
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I think we were all aware there wer some issues with Freddie and his drinking around the time of the Ashes -culminating in the Fredalo incident at the World Cup -so nothing new there ,Fletcher just seems to be glamorising the whole sorry affair to sell his book.
His section on Monty is even more of any eye opener -I'm amazed that the management team even needed to discuss whether he should be included in the 1st Ashes Test as he had been our most successful bowler over the Summer and poor old Gilo had not played for 12 months -should have been a no brainer.
He then goes onto say that there were problems with Monty's bowling -how absurd is that, talking about a guy who has taken wickets all summer long.
To top the whole thing off Monty was picked at Perth and got 5-92 and what is Fletcher's response? It was a helpful pitch! I think he needs to look at the figures achieved by the great Shane Warne on that spin-friendly Perth pitch before he puts this type of rubbish in print.
I think the book actually confirms that Fletcher had lost all control of team management by the times the Ashes came around -something we the fans feared at the time and which now seems correct.
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Whilst I have some reservations about Fletcher's book, he has highlighted several very important points
1) The poor attitude and professionalism of other selectors: The selectors' shocking lack of collective responsibility and loyalty to players contributed to the collapse of Team England during the Ashes. Until the higher eschelons of English cricket are cleaned out, no coach will be able to acheive what Fletcher achieved. He had to be a stubborn, dour man to get what he wanted - let's not forget he's the most successful English coach we've ever had.
2) The destructive role of the English cricket media, of which Agnew is a part. Objective, critical press is vitally important, but very few of the current commentators and journalists provide that. They too often confuse comment with fact and allow personal bias rather than objective evidence to guide their commentary. The keeping issue highlights this clearly: Think how different our wicket keeping role would be now if the media coverage of either keeper had been more analytical: Read might have worked on his game rather than believing the 'best keeper' hype, and Jones might have got the credit (and confidence) he deserved for correcting his technical flaws and becoming an excellent international keeper.
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Well, the bottom line to all this is that it seems Flintoff is a Pi$$-artist for his drinking, while Fletcher is a hypocrite for breaking his own rules on team loyalty.
I'd prefer the drunkard every time.
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Lots of interesting comments here and mostly from people who obviously have never captained or managed a group of people in thier lives.So why did Fletcher and co give the job to flintoff? even knowing ,like the rest of the country he was one of the boys and will always be the first in the bar after the game.Well perhaps because Fletcher felt that this added responsibilty might pull the performances and maturity that we would need from freddie if we were to retain the ashes.Particularly as vaughan was absent.In hindsight which is a great thing this was probably a very nieve view and was probably the major factor in rushing back a blatantly unfit vaughan to the world cup to put some discipline back in the squad.(and was also at the back of the cryptic vaughan comments about freddie at the world cup)So without washing all the dirty linen about a disparite squad and a drunk captain fletch and co quietly covered up the whole affir.Why,well Fletcher had nothing to lose so perhaps to protect the individual concerned!!!
So why has he declared it now? putting it into context as yet we do not know exactly what Fletcher has written all that has been said is that in his forthcoming back there will be revelations as to how badly let down fletcher felt about Flintoffs behaviour and in particular his drinking on the tour.when the book comes out it maybe written in the context that Fletcher feels for the sake of his career then Flintoff should be recieving some help and I am convinced that Fletcher will have told this to Flintoff on many many occasions over the past 7 years.
For me if it makes freddie sit back and review his lifestyle for the benefit of england then its the best thing that Fletcher could have done.Sometimes you do have to SHAME a person into changing.
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I find it to be informative, helps young cricketers to watch their conduct. Bad Drunkards and uncontrollable lads should face the consequences of their uncontrolled and unhibited behaviour. I think Duncan was Not a man after all.
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Jonathan's words -
'The revelations in this book will have surprised people who will have viewed ........ as a colourless, uninspiring public figure who was as grey as his hair'
Could we replace Fletcher's name with John Major ?
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Duncan probably saw a lot of himself in Andrew Flintoff-a gifted allrounder who led by example. To see Andrew drop like he did was heartbreaking for even the enemy.Duncan Fletcher,stuborn as some may feel he is, must have given a lot of thought to what he had to say of Andrew in his book.Is he justified? I think he is. Andrew was preoccupied with his stardom and gave little thought to his health or the future of english cricket.
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Brian Taylor wrote:
"Fletcher's continued debunking of Chris Read goes on apace."
Brian: how refreshing it is to read these lines. I can assure you that I was highly critical of these very issues before the Ashes series of 2005 began.
I had seen very little of Jones' wicket-keeping during the away WI series when he replaced Read. However, and in spite of his batting, I could scarcely believe my eyes as I witnessed his fumblings during the next home series. My views then were derided, Jones clearly having won over the fickle hearts and feeble minds of several bloggers at least, who lauded his batting, and claimed that this would easily overcome any keeping frailties.
How sadly deluded they were. I will state yet again, that the wicket-keeper is a critical player in any team - not owing to the barrage of verbals her is able to spout at the batsman, which, incidentally, are NEVER justified, nor, tellingly, by his batting, but by his ability to KEEP WICKET. Chris Read is an excellent exponent of this, and has been shamefully treated by several people who ought to hand their heads in shame.
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I agree that there is a strong argument that Fletcher has been disloyal and that Freddie may feel let down by this. But, and it is a big but, which is the bigger issue? Fletcher breaking a confidence once no longer in the job, or Freddie off his head at practice? The answer to me is blindingly obvious - Freddie being pissed is far worse.
Freddy may be a young man away from home, but the very second that someone suggests that is an acceptable reason to behave like an incompetent irresponsible fool, especially in the position of Captain of your country, is the same second that that someone should be sacked, or at least have the good grace to resign.
The Captain himself should then be replaced, and serious questions should be asked about why those in charge allowed him to become Captain when there was clear risk of that happening, and then they too should be replaced.
It is an honour to Captain your country and the Captain should lead in both word and deed, both on and off the field. Freddy has behaved like a child, hiding from responsibility. Maybe he needs help, but if so that should have been provided much earlier.
For the future, given that he can't string together 3 overs without his ankle flaring up again, he can't make the Test or ODI side as an all-rounder or bowler. His batting since 2005 has been woeful, and isn't worthy of a place in County level top order, so he certainly can't make the Test or ODI team as a batsman. He's got a lot of work ahead of him to regain the form and consistency he needs to earn an England spot. If that thought doesn't keep him off the alcohol, talisman or not, he just doesn't deserve his place back.
And with benefit of hindsight, once the furore has died down, Fletcher will be thanked for this revelation - all it will do is help in the long term.
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fletcher's time in charge of england will be remembered for 5 great matches, 5 terrible matches and the emergence of a horrible little clique.
a team to take england forward.
strauss (c)
bell
cook
pieterson
shah
bopara
mustard (w)
broad
panesar
sidebottom
anderson
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I don't see how you could possibly accuse Fletcher of letting down Flintoff! If anything, he stood by him and protected him by not revealing what happened on the Ashes tour at the time! Surely now he has left the set-up, he is allowed to denfend himself and tell the truth?!
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Ducan Fletcher this not the way to guide the team enough is enough ,what are doing when you are at hlem of affairs.Third rate coach
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So now we know! Pandora's Box has been opened for cheap quick bucks.
Did we have any chance at all during the last Ashes Tour. I think not, judging this level of incompetence. I have to say Duncan Fletcher's bitter and snide biographical ramblings has left me with a very sour taste in my mouth. Even the rosy glow of summer 2005 now doesn't seem to have the same glorious sheen.
What I do know, is I don't like this man at all. My, his conversations with laugh-a-minute Nasser must have been fun! And boy does 'Dunc' have issues. I feel as if I've been picking the bones of a corpse that's been out in the heat for far too long.
So poor Freddy is a drunken sot. And we treated Read appallingly because of Trescothick's left side catching deficiencies, plus he didn't stand up to Warne, when very few people can!
Meanwhile Trescothick is sold down the river to the shrinks, while certain untouchables in the side were given far too much leeway, that they could do exactly what they liked whether they were injured or just living life to the full.
Finally - the views of one of the greatest ever players for Australia - Rod Marsh were utterly ignored and ridiculed(when he was running our academy) and when it came to selection policy, the only thing we can conclude, is that nobody had the flimsiest clue about anything! So pass the buck was always in order. We would have been better off hiring a Bingo Caller or maybe the TCB could have squeezed some extra cash by organisng a TV Phone-in. Maybe then Strauss and Panesar would have been given the chances they so richly deserved.
Goodbye Mister Fletcher - thanks for 2005 but stay in South Africa, oh in the mean time if you can give us any more material to justify the dismissal of the utterly useless Chairman of Selectors - David Graveney please provide.
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Duncan Fletcher should have been released after our 2005 Ashes win. There was no way he was going to replicate that famous high. The ECB were to blame there.
DF has been disloyal and an untrue friend to Freddie. If Freddie had a drink problem, it didnt just appear one fine morning. He should have been counselled and helped not reviled.
So, the selectors must also take their fair share of the blame here.
In giving huge poweres to DF, the ECB were the authors of the debacles that ensued after the 2005 Ashes win. Injuries to key players didn't help and Freddie's appointment as captain down under was a great mistake for which we paid a heavy price -5-0 scoreline.
Will lessons be learnt- I doubt it.
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When someone turns up for work unfit due to drink they should be sent home, told to report for work the next day in a fit state, and reprimanded as appropriate. What kind of management closes for business for the rest of the day and gives all the staff paid leave? Is it any wonder we lost?
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A lot of people have jumped on the bandwagon (on this board and others) of slagging off Flintoff for his drinking. I firmly believe that it鈥檚 the media, sponsors and 鈥渇ans鈥 that cause all the problems with the likes of Freddy and Botham. For some incredibly frustrating reason in this country, as soon as a sportsman is successful, the media immediately tag them with the 鈥渟avour鈥, 鈥渉ero鈥, or 鈥渟uperstar鈥 label. This then gets the sponsors chomping at the bit for a piece of the publicity and the said sportsman is given chunks of money for doing virtually nothing. Then, being that they are mostly young males with time on their hands, between games and training etc, they go out and enjoy themselves (as probably virtually any other normal young bloke would do). As soon as word gets out that they were drinking, enjoying themselves, or doing any other normal behaviour, the very same tabloids assassinate them calling them 鈥減oor role models鈥, or accuse them of letting their country down. Then, the so called 鈥渇ans鈥, who believed everything that their copy of The Sun had told them and probably spent 25p voting for on last years Sports Personality of the Year Award, immediately start spouting on about being let down and they should be fired etc. AHHHHHH!
Unlike profile hungry pop stars or actors, quite often sportsmen and women don鈥檛 particularly want the publicity in the first place. If you watch these stories carefully, you鈥檒l note that they are created, kept going and then finished by the same tabloid scum, who are quite frankly no higher than pond algae in my scale of things. Throughout British sporting history, there has always been a drinking culture attached and there still is, even at the highest level. The only difference is the News of the World, Sun, Mirror (the list goes on) wouldn鈥檛 sell any copies if they reported that Bobby Barlow, of Weatherington Town FC, turned up for training a bit worse for wear and had to go home early.
There will be replies saying 鈥渁h yes but these guys are playing for England and should therefore behave differently鈥. In some ways I agree. But lets just say that if Freddy (I鈥檓 only using him as an example) was openly interviewed by the media after the Ashes win and he said 鈥淚鈥檓 going to have a drink or two on the next Ashes tour, so would you rather me stay at home?鈥, every man and his dog would have demanded that he was kept in the side.
So as a summary, don鈥檛 build these people up into icons and heroes, they are simply sportsmen, or women. Don鈥檛 believe any of the tripe you ready in the tabloids, or that has a connection with Max Clifford 鈥 in fact don鈥檛 buy them, unless you鈥檙e using them for decorating or loo paper. Leave these people alone to hopefully get on a win trophies and medals for their country or club.
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First thoughts;
Aggers admits the press knew about drinking incidents on tour and supporters seem to have been aware. The revelations now coming from Duncan Fletcher would have come out sometime from another source.
Maybe the thinking at the time of the tests was that the repercussions of demoting FF (or sending him home) would have been too great. Cricket is a commercial business - none greater than a test series. Even more so following a win by England after so many years - remember the build up before the start of the series?
If FF does have a drink problem - it will not be resolved until he is ready, no matter who advises him.
I'm with those who believe that Andrew Strauss should have retained the captaincy. He was leading a team on a roll (including Chris Read) and the momentum was completely halted. Continuity in selection has been proven to be a winner and competition for places brings out the best in players.
I will read Fletcher's book in full before I make up my mind.
I have already enjoyed books by Strauss, Ed Smith, Simon Hughes, FF, Mark Ramprakash and others, but my favourite is 'Penguins stopped play' by Harry Thompson - sheer joy! Not a professional player but one who revelled in the sport.
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I would not play flintoff for england again , no one man is bigger than the team, come on this is a british disease, you only had to see him falling around at the ashes celebrations to know he had a big big problem.
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I'm glad WardParry doesn't have any books in prospect. Or does he? Gawd, what an appalling thought.
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I cannot understand why Fletcher reportedly had to cancel a practice session for the whole squad just because Freddie was allegedly drunk. Why didn't he tell Freddie to go away and sober up and carry on with the practice session with the rest of the team.
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Look back that's the way to go.
Look forward ye Englishmen.
I liked the comment Freddie is a young man away from home for 100 days.
We need a system in place for youg ones, married ones who are not wedded to cricket to find ways to overcome homesickness, boredom, training training and training and coaching.
Sir Don used to play piano on tour,vijay merchant and vinoo mankad were in bed by 8.30 in the god old days.
For the sake of future stars imaginative ways must be found to occupy them so that they don't go Freddie's way or Warne's fot that matter.
The two are human, it's human to what they did and the question is did they have a choice.
Cheers
pradeep vijayakar
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My thoughts:
Botham - incorrigible but Freddie didn't have to say yes!
Boycott has always been controversial! However, he really cares about the game as well as his ego, plus his job as is Botham's is sports commentator so that is why they hang around with cricketers doh! Also Boycott coached some of them . re Fletcher - CMJ today in the Times said it was a book by a mean man & even if some of it is accurate it is strange for someone to say what he has & then want to go back to County Cricket. Freddie yes irresponsible but whose choice as captain? I have had management experience & I wouldn't have given it to him in a month of Sundays plus DF you can't always blame other people for decisions the buck stops with .. I think it is very sour.
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Andrew Flintoff is not a God - he is a man, with all the frailties that engenders. He is also not a Captain and, as has already been said, the best player is not neccessarily the best captain. One of the best captains in my memory was Mike Brierley who was not the best batsman but was worth picking on captaining ability alone, so is Michael Vaughan. It is not fair to put all the pressure on Flintoff to perform every time, especially with his history of injury problems - cricket is a game of eleven players, not one or two. If one man turns up drunk for practice, that should not mean the practice is cancelled - just that he should be disciplined and, possibly, dropped from the next game. Duncan Fletcher is coming across as a bitter man and not doing his reputation any good by dragging these incidents up.
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Regarding Freddie's drinking, I can't accept that it was just normal behaviour for a young, virile guy. Of course it's true, as some have pointed out, that if he was a player for some village team, no one outside the local area would be bothered. But he isn't a village player, he's an England player, and was captain at the time. I don't expect him to be teetotal, but some professionalism is called for. If you're going to drink, you do it in your own time and don't let it affect your work. I don't think that's too much to expect for the honour of playing for England, to say nothing of the financial rewards.
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New autobiography by DF reveals what type of character DF is.Comments about Flintoff shows DF is disloyal,dishonest & hypocrite,although it was all his responsiblity to take care of the team.As for famous ball-tempering suspicion of Pak,his comments of using binoculars closely shows how lowlying scumb he is.This should open a new chapter of inquiry by ICC,it was premediated between DF & Hair,if found should be punished.PCB should drag this immoral punk in Court of Law.What a shame.MA-chicago
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I totally agree with the point about him being a young man away from home, plus we all know Freddie has a history with booze. I understand the contradiction between Fletcher asking for loyalty and then writing what he did, however, I'd much rather he felt aggrieved and be able to read about it.
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I am amazed Duncan went on to coach England for so long. He keeps bragging about what England did under him but really they did nothing except win that single Ashes. For that win also, he must thank Flintoff instead of all this nonsense he is talking of him.
It's amazing how gets away with such casual comments such as "We lost to probably the best team in the games history" after getting thrashed 5-0 to Australia the following Ashes. Losing is understandible but 5 nill is just ridiculous. At least they would have drawn a game?? Its international cricket..after all how good could Ausies be that you could draw a single game and then come up with excuses..
And I wont even get into their one-day form under him. They went a few steps back for sure...
I am glad that he is gone finally. Surprisingly, results have shown instantly after he left.
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How exactly were England underprepared?
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It is important to realise that Fletcher was not a good coach. In the last Ashes series and indeed for some time beforehand England's players were constantly criticised for poor technique. There is only one person to blame for this. The coach.
England's success under Fletcher was despite him, not because of him. He was in the right place at the right time for him to take the credit when a number of very good players hit top form more or less simultaneously. Fletcher's contribution was minimal. His contempt for county cricket was pathetic and to the detriment of cricket in this country. It is a geat pity that England didn't appoint Tom Cartwright as coach when they had the chance.
The criticisms of Geoff Boycott are not valid. He was a great player, if not an exciting one, and is a very knowledgeable and fair minded cricket journalist. English cricket would have benefitted greatly if he had had a major role in running it. The miserable puritans who have a go at Andrew Flintoff and Ian Botham should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves and mind their own business. Andrew Flintoff's injuries are nothing to to with drink. Look at how often the squeaky clean Michael Owen is injured, not to mention the puritanical Jonny Wilkinson and others. Puritanism is very much akin to fascism - Hitler was a teetotal, non-smoking, food faddist- fortunately the rather different Churchill was on our side. Sir Ian, despite one or two dodgy political views, is a great man as well as having been a great cricketer and would be infinitely better company than his mean-minded critics.
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I have always respected Aggers' comments but however just cannot bring myself to agree with his above statement that FF is just a young bloke who has been away from home for 100 odd days and that his drinking has to be kept in context. What context!!! Insulting the honour of being captain? Insulting the fans looking forward to a potentially great contest? He is grown up enough to know right from wrong. There is absolutely no justification for his behaviour in this day and age of professionalism in sport or for that matter, in any other field.
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The only disloyalty is Flintoff's abdication of his professional responsibilities. Sportsmen have a debt of duty to themselves, their family and friends, colleagues, employers and fans and I must have missed the chapter in "Professional Sport For Dummies" that details alcohol's uses as being more than just as a rub!
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I was in Guyana for the cricket world cup and at the same hotel as Fred, the drinking did not stop after the Fredalo incident....
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I have not read the book, but am I missing something here ?. If Fletcher was so disturbed by Fintoff麓s behaviour, why did he not press to have him removed as captain and dropped from the team, thus terminating a contract that Flintoff was probably in breach of. Such a measure, along with serious counselling, might well have been enough to concentrate FF麓s mind. All in all, Fletcher麓s revelations do little to convince one of his abilities as a coach and man manager.
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I am with freddie. Drinking is not an issue. Sir Garfield Sobers used to drink alot. Even going for the night out during the test matches. Once he scored 150 in a test match at Lords, while under the influence of alchohol. Some players are different and freddie is one of them. he always give 100%. Dont worry Freddie and keep on drinking.
Cheers
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Although Fletcher has told truth. "Truth Hirts, It hurts more if told in front of others".
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I think ECB should be blamed for the whole debacle. Under ECB instruction or consultation with DF, FF was allowed to lead the side. If DF was so concerned about the issue as he is making out it to be, he should have taken a stand and gone to the extent of resigning if FF was allowed to lead the team. It was a serious problem which DF should have tackled there and then. DF you have opened a can of worm. You may have to eat some. Good luck
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Cor blimey!
Don't you all go on about a guy having a few drinks! Cricketers have always done this - even Compton in the 1950's. The Aussies do it all the time and look at them. Don't blame Flintoff for the defeat, a guy that gives his all and more - the team
was inept and wrongly selected. It's a bit better now but we still don't pick the best players available for the job (e.g. Ramprakash, Read etc)
It amazes me with all the so called "management" that goes around with the England Team i.e. coaches for bowling, batting, feilding,wiping your bum, advisors for this and that, that if this was such a great "drinking" problem it was not picked up and resolved.
Christ - it's only a game of cricket! Have a bit of fun and don't be so damned serious.
Overblown nonsense I am afraid. Don't believe what you read in books folks.
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Flintoff has behaved ignobly in the past--remember his running over the Wankhede pitch after losing his shirt--something famously replicated by Sourav Ganguly in the Lord's balcony.It did'nt make Sourav very popular,and I suspect had Fintoff been a lesser player , it would'nt have been taken too kindly in Flintoff's case either.I believe English media is guilty of making the same mistakes as their Indian counterparts i.e. making superstars out of players who are only on the verge of greatness but not legends yet.Fletcher's comments and the reactions to them should be taken in the same context.
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though outspoken in his criticism of flintoff i do think that turning up to practice for a test match off your crust on booze is completely unprofessional especially when you are captain. i run a local football team and i wont tolerate people turning up to train or even worse play when they are half cut.
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Duncan Fletcher has done the right thing to clear his thoughts out but at the wrong time. He obviously knows the team is preparing for a future possibly without Flintoff. This saga will be a distruption for Flintoff and may cause problems not only for himself but for Peter Moores, and like Agnew said High Marsh who deals with these issues. If there is some kind of issue with Flintoff then please discuss it privately and show your encouragement and support to the current team and not let them down. Fletcher has not mentioned any such debacle with any one else but Flintoff, so he should keep his hopes up for the team.
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If you have got something to say and yoy feel genuinely you want to say it, then, you should do so. There is never a right time, a wrong time, a maybe time for this. We may not like it, it is not ideal, but that if life and we are hypocrites if we think otherwise. Freddie was drunk which hurts as an English supporter. I hope that my young son does not follow his example. We are all responsible for our own actions. We all make choices. Fletcher's book and our reaction to it just reveals how fragile and opinionated we all are.
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Post 17: How is Ian Botham to blame for any of this? Andrew Flintoff isn't 11, he's 29. He's more than capable of looking after himself, and I daresay the foremost thought during his so-called benders wasn't 'well, Botham got away with it'. Botham did get away with it, but that was because it was a different era, and different attitudes governed the spirit of the game. Yes, it's not right that Flintoff was drunk at practice, yes, Botham probably doesn't set the greatest example to youngsters off the field - but you have no right to tarnish the names of two great sportsmen by relating their partialness to a drink.
I'm not defending Flintoff, because I'm disappointed in him for these revelations, but I can understand why he might have felt the need for a release. And Fletcher...no problem with him sounding off in a book, but 'serialising' the juicy bits in the paper? That's all about selling extra copies.
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Post 94
Ian Botham isn't entirely to blame for it. However, he bears a personal responsibility for leading Flintoff astray. I certainly wouldn't call Botham a 'friend'. If I had a tendency to drinking too much and a so-called friend encouraged me, what would you as an outsider think about the action of that friend?
A true friend will try to encourage their friend to behave better, even though vilified for telling them. I'm not talking about celebrity, London Lite-type friends here.
I do hope that this is a turning point for Flintoff. In the Guardian today, Vaughan was quoted as saying this was the last chance saloon for Flintoff and I'm afraid I think Vaughan is right, not only because of the ankle injury, but also because of the drinking problem.
I asked in a previous posting what Botham and co. who have no obvious role, are doing hanging around the England cricket team? This would not be permitted in football and I feel that cricket has a lot to learn in this respect......
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As an expat pom living in Australia for over 20 years, I watched the Ashes series in England with keen interest and mixed allegiances! The behaviour of all players seemed to be excellent and seeing Flintoff console Lee when Australia lost that final wicket during the epic run chase (umpire's mistake - but that's ok, because that's part of the game), was an act of true sportsmanship. The worst act of the series was when Fletcher goaded Ponting when he was run out by the substitute fielder. Regardless of the merits of using such a fielder, Fletcher lost all credibility through his behaviour, at least with me, as anyone who has a right to preach about sportsmanship and the morals of the game.
So, while Flintoff may have made some mistakes, his behaviour while actually playing the game has always been exemplary. Conversely, Fletcher continues to demonstrate himself to be a poor sportsman and mean spirited. Good riddance.
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Really do you not think he was ever different. Fletcher was a very bad man from day one and blamed everyone for what he should have been doing. I reckon you should talk to some of his former cricketing and see what they say. I have never in my life heard such an unbelievable outburst, and it was all his fault anyway. He should never have been even interviewed for the England coaching job. Do these ECB people ever do any Due Diligence?
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Truly great cricketers, sportspersons, athletes, musicians, painters, poets and composers have always been special creations of nature. They are a unique breed and their performances are different from the normal, average and mundane. Through their super human feats they stand tall and are visible to all for praise, applause and criticism.
If one goes through the pages of history be it British, French, Portuguese, Dutch, Danish or Spanish, one comes across narratives of expeditions led by these countries in overseas or neighbouring lands.
In these narratives one comes across names of non combatants termed as "spiritual companions" or "spiritual advisers" who were often pastors or priests with sound ethical, moral, psychological, philosophical, spiritual and theological training.
When the young combatants had difficulties, trials, moments of depression and desolation these "spiritual advisers" played an important role in supporting the youngmen on the march.
In todays world of sports and games coaches can at times behave like mercenaries. They are hired and fired and they are always on the look out to make a living through their coaching, writing and giving interviews.
Those at the helm of affairs need to protect and prolong the playing careers of our players who are special artists and who have a role to play on the world stage through their super human feats. As human beings the stress and strain can at times become unbearable for them and it is here that there may be still a role for a "spiritual guru" to accompany the team in whom the players, coaches, trainers, managers and physios can confide.
Our players need to be trusted, encouraged, protected and made to feel important and wanted both in the country and overseas when they are facing the opposition far away from home, their familiar surroundings and their loved ones.
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botham can't be blamed. but he's still a knob.
the fact that past generations set a drunken precedent doesn't excuse turning up for practice drunk. anyone can see that cricket has a totally different level of fitness and professionalism these days, and these players are paid large sums of money now, which you'd think would 'buy' a modicum of self-discipline. hopefully the embarrassment caused by these revelations will finally get through to flintoff. he's a good bowler when he's firing and england could still use his blustery line and length in the one dayers.
of course they need to 'blow off steam' during a world cup but there are other ways to do it then get drunk. i mean sheeesh
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Like many Aussies I watched the series in England and thought it was played in great spirit. Freddie was not only emblematic he was one of the keys to England's success. He is also a player like Beefy Botham who we can admire as both talented and charismatic. The hoopla after the victory was over the top (gongs all round)and clearly went to Fletcher's head as well as I would humbly suggest creating hyper expectations for the next series. Freddie had heaps of pressure to contend with and it is not surprising it has had its effects. The question that really should be asked is - if England had not had to rely so heavily on a few like Freddie would also this scrutiny of him and KP occur? And wouldnt England's cricket be more consistent? Look to the structures of sport (from the number of kids playing through academies development etc) and the individuals will emerge.
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Like many Aussies I watched the series in England and thought it was played in great spirit. Freddie was not only emblematic he was one of the keys to England's success. He is also a player like Beefy Botham who we can admire as both talented and charismatic. The hoopla after the victory was over the top (gongs all round)and clearly went to Fletcher's head as well as I would humbly suggest creating hyper expectations for the next series. Freddie had heaps of pressure to contend with and it is not surprising it has had its effects. The question that really should be asked is - if England had not had to rely so heavily on a few like Freddie would also this scrutiny of him and KP occur? And wouldnt England's cricket be more consistent? Look to the structures of sport (from the number of kids playing through academies development etc) and the individuals will emerge.
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