Mobile England deserve series win (153)
- 8 Sep 07, 05:11 PM
It鈥檚 a shame that umpiring controversies should once again overshadow a match in this excellent one-day series.
No matter how hard England celebrate their , Indian supporters will point to the dismissal of Sachin Tendulkar as being crucial to the failure of their team.
Tendulkar was given out caught behind off Andrew Flintoff by Aleem Dar, who had just dispatched Rahul Dravid in similar circumstances.
Dravid made his displeasure universally known by repeatedly shaking his head as he headed for the pavilion, although snickometer indicated that Dar might have made an excellent decision.
Robin Uthappa was lucky to survive an early appeal for caught behind, before becoming one of Dimitri Mascarenhas鈥檚 three victims.
All of that aside, I feel that England were marginally the better team in the series. Certainly they outplayed India in key areas of the one-day game: fielding and running between the wickets. Today, with Luke Wright promoted to opening the innings, they put out a vibrant and energetic-looking XI. He failed, unfortunately, but England were much stronger with Andrew Flintoff listed to bat at seven and bowling at 90mph.
India must take a look at the old guard and wonder for how much longer they can continue to be a part of the one-day game.
Dravid might well face the decision taken by Michael Vaughan and Stephen Fleming in the wake of the World Cup, and make way for a younger man.
To that end, we should monitor the progress of Mahendra Dhoni, who is leading India in the next week.
But it was an excellent series. Seven matches is two games too many, and we were all lucky that the rubber was still alive for the final match.
It is just a shame that, as is so often the case, the grand finale failed to live up to its billing.
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Jonathan Agnew has been providing us with very enjoyable stuff during these Indo-British cricket encounters. It has been a joy to read these lovely columns from the ace cricket commentator. Thank you sir for this fine and well balanced presentations. Bye for now but we hope to see you again at the crease for the next big thing in cricket.
Team India needs a few more quality all rounders. Our men in blue have done well in the ODIs and in the Test series. Many among us do feel humbled to see them doing justice to their enormous talents and proving some of us somewhat right and others somewhat wrong. Hats off to Saurav, Sachin, Rahul, Yuvraj, Gautham, Zaheer, Dhoni, Uthappa, Piyush, Karthick, Pawar, Ajit, Patel and RP. Mr. Chandu Borde, Venky and Robin deserve a pat on their backs for a job well done. Let us wish our heroes a fine journey back home.
For England Flintoff, Mascarenhas and Anderson bowled well. Bell, KP and Collingwood batted as thorough professionals. Congratulations to the winners for their gritty performances.
England has really unearthed some exceptional talent in the course of this Indo-British series. Prior, Cook, Bell, Wright, Broad, Bopara, Tremlett, Anderson, Dimitri Mascarenhas, Monty and Shah have grown in confidence and flourished under the forceful leadership of captain and top class all rounder Paul Collingwood. With a fit Flintoff, Harmison, Sidebottom and Hoggard, England can only go higher and get stronger in the near future. This English side has fine all rounders and athletic fielders making them an exciting side in One Day Cricket.
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Well done England on a fantastic victory.I agree with Aggers;we thoroughly deserved to win the series.Let's hope the selectors stick with Broad,Anderson and co.for the test side.Onward and upward!
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Rahul, I would love a source for your 90% stat, as without one it really doesn't count for much. India have had their fair share of umpiring decisions go in their favour, indeed thats the only reason they didn't lose the first test. So all this complaining really is rather rich. England deserved to win the one day series, and in fairness this will probably help India in the long run as they can bring in some fresh blood to their one day team. Congratulations Collingwood, you led this team well. I just hope the selectors don't meddle too much.
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Well played England and they deserved to win. Having said that it also needs to be mentioned that India doesn't need advises to chnage their old gaurd as Rahul is becoming a excellent captain and Batting first was not a right thing to happen as the strenght was in the batting for India and chasing may have been a better option. Rushing to advice/looking to change ithe old guard before the younger guys are ready to take the baton is un-warrented and may be close to irrelevant as India came back wonderfully into the series to make this match a wonderful fianle.....So aggers India doesnt need to take the England route for now ........
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Rahul: Pls stop complaining about pro English umpires. Aleem Dar does not play for England, he is a top umpire but unfotunately made a dodgy decision today. Yes umpires have made a lot of mistakes throughout the summer but to blame just the umpires for the series loss is absolute nonsense! England have edged the series but it was great viewing for us all.
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I do not think that the Old horses need to Retire yet.We will see how is the team going to do with out the Old horses in the Twenty20 WC.The 3 matches that India won in this series is MAINLY because of the WONDERFUl century stands/starts given by S & S.
Agnes wants them to retire, not because he wants the best for Indian Cricket and young the Indian Cricketers,But may be because he wants to make it a bit easier for KP and other English players to go on break the Records set by these Old horses and make him a better player than them.
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What nonsense people talk. Throughout the tests and one dayers all I have heard is petulance against the umpires and to be honest it is boring.
As for England being told to grow up and play with 11 men not 13 that is a case of sour grapes.
The cricket in both series was graet lets celebrate that
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In the end a marginally better side won, but if the umpire had not made two crucial decisions wrong we coiuld have had a more competetive finish. Clearly Tendulkar was not out, but I believe that in Dravid's case probably the ball brushed past the stump to produce a 'snick'. Losing two wickets at that juncture changed the pattern and flow of the game. India's final score of 187 was never enough and allowed English batsmen to play more freely and thus the margin of 7 wickets. Let us not quib about the decisions but it was disheartening to hear Peterson and Collingwood to literally 'brag' about the superiority of the English side. Dravid as always replied like a gentleman he is. All said and done India has to produce a set of batsmen and bowlers which can stand on their own; just as the English players are beginning to do.
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I think the umpiring decisions were costly here for India. TV replays and snickometers have to be used.
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Congratulations England on your fantastic win. Keep it up. But you need to do better to win against Australia because umpires fear Australian players and won't be of much help.
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Rahul, others have said it already but it needs to be said again - your talk of 90% of errors going England's way is utter nonsense. Furthermore, you seem to suggest that this is true of all test/odi matches in England. Do you really believe neutral umpires are so influenced by crowds?
Of course, home advantage is always useful but spouting idiotic and meaningless stats demeans both yourself and the series itself.
It's a 7 match series, of course the best team won. Likewise, the test series was played over 3 5-day games - no one can complain if they get beat, as England were, despite almost winning at Lords. That's the game.
Time to remove the chip from your shoulder.
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Congrats to England. They played well and deserved to be the winners. No point in complaining about the umpriing decisions.
Even though these decisions do even out over the series in most cases, it's hard to believe that Sachin is at the end of errors more than 4 times in this series alone.
Anyway as a team england were better and Flintoff and the fielding were the difference between the teams.
Good luck to both the teams for 20-20WC
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I agree with most of what you have to say Jonathan, but to suggest Dravid should 'make way for a younger man' is frankly ridiculous. While he hasn't had the best of series here, he is part of the elite 10000+ ODI run club. You cannot compare him to Michael Vaughan, an excellent Test player who despite his class has miserably failed to adapt to ODIs. Stephen Fleming was a great captain but had an average closer to 30 than 40. Dravid has steadily improved as an ODI batsman over the years, increasing his average to just over 40.
To suggest that he should hang up his ODI boots now is being rather over-reactive to what has been a disappointing tour by his standards. He made a deliberate decision to come in late in the order this series to give the younger likes of Gambhir, Karthik and Yuvraj a chance- had he not, it is probable he would have scored more.
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How on earth can umpiring decisions be blamed for such a comprehensive England victory?We outbatted,outbowled and outfielded India throughout the whole match.It would be refreshing to hear some messages of congratulations from Indian supporters.
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England played very well during this series; especially their bowlers and allrounders.
I have to admit that the umpiring was a bit harsh on the Indians.Giving the most successful ODI batsman in history out twice wrongly in a 7 match series is very harsh, especially the dismissal in the decider.At 50-3, Sachin could easily have guided India to more than 250.Imagine what Englands plight would have been, if Peterson and Collingwood were wrongly given when England were 70 or 80 for 3; I would say this match would have gone to the wire then.
On the whole, I think England were a better ODI team due to their excellent fielding and pacy bowling; Indians lacked these 2 a lot in their ODI matches.
Very Sad to see sachin not given a chance to score big on perhaps his last game in Lords.If you give a wrong decision to an ordinary player will not make much difference to the outcome, but giving Sachin out does make a HUGE difference in the outcome.
Anyway Congrats England; well played!!
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Congrats England on their series victory. Anyone remember what happened before the worldcup in WestIndies. They won in Aus only to be dismal in WI. Now they are going for 20-20, same thing will happen unless they definitely improve their weakness. As for India they played well in patches and i don't agree that the senior players should give in to younger players,Who is the higest run getter for India? But definitely a mixture will help.
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Mr Agnew had been very candid in admitting that Tendulkar`s unfair dismissal paved the way for an one sided final.
It was an absolute disgrace; what should have been a memorable final was turned into a damp squib by one definite and two probable umpiring errors.Not only the end result was affected but the cricket fans of this country was robbed off a great chance to see the Great Little maestro`s last act at the holy turf of Lords! sad!
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The one person who richly deserves the Man of the Match award is none other than.........ALIM DAR. But for his wonderful decision in giving out Dravid and Tendulkar, he has done a yeoman service to the game of Cricket!!!! How to demotivate and bring down a performing team that could come up from down 3-1 to equalize at 3-3 and fight back....
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Anyone wanting to complain about the umpiring favouring England should note that Dravid and Tendulkar were given out by the neutral umpire, Aleem Dar. Also I remember Simon Taufel being criticised earlier in the summer. I think it would benfit the future of Indian cricket if they just said, yeah we were beaten by a better, hungrier team on this occasion.
I think England have shown some promising sign for the future, and for the first time in a decade maybe there are signs of a long term plan. It was very good to see previously uncertain figures making very valuable contributions, Broad, Tremlett, Bell, Cook, Mascarenhas, Shah, Wright all made very important contributions, and Jimmy Anderson continues to make progress as an excellent leader of the attack. For me England's biggest question marks are how to fit all the young talent into a team and how to fit established stars in, people like KP and Panesar.
I think England need to think carefully about pinch hitting and fitting a flexible team together, so that if its needed there is one available, but not just flining one in there if its not needed.
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Nice to win a one day series. But England need to drop the absurdity of opening with the wicket-keeper. There is no basis for doing this. We need to have a good opening partnership or we will continue to lose more ODI's than we win. Why drop Cook? He at least scored a 100 as opener. Prior got blob and so did Wright - another daft decision. What is wrong with having 2 specialist openers in there?
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Saul, I think in that respect English fans are the worst. The same English Fans celebrating now were never interested in One day International, when beaten in World cup, in India, WI series and in Australia.
But saying that I am sure you are one of those fans who popped out after the Ashes win.
And we all know how Mike Gatting ran after the umpire with the bat.
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in reply to RAHUL'S sour grapes because ENGLAND won, ask ANDREW STAUSS about umpire errors, India were beaten by the better team, take it on the chin and stop moaning !!
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I think the paying customers were denied a good contest by bad umpiring. Getting one decision wrong is human but making two mistakes in a row is not acceptable. I paid 拢60 for the ticket. I think cricket lost today not India.
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Rahul:
There is a slight problem with the moral high ground. Before the Tendulkar incident, which I think everyone will agree was a bad decision, we had the unedifying spectacle of Rahul Draid being given out to an edge that Snicko confirmed. He showed strong dissent. The crowd booed what was shown to be a correct decision. Might that incident not have rebounded on the blameless Tendulkar who took his own misfortune extremely well?
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Rahul,
If you watched the television coverage closely, you'll notice that Dravid WAS out and was given out. Tendulkar WAS NOT OUT but was given out. UTHAPPA WAS OUT but was given not out. Unless they have changed the laws of mathematics without my knowledgeon, that makes it one incorrect decision benefitting each team. Time to grow up and take comprehensive defeat graciously. Well done to both teams for some excellently contested one day cricket.
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What no one has commented is that this match may just be Andrew Flintoff's swansong. Even after having an injection he was in serious discomfort. If he can't bowl 10 overs in a ODI, how is he ever going to bowl 25 in a day in a Test? Today he struggled though, but he is even more doubtful than before for the 20-20 World Cup (hence the call-up of Mascarenhas).
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I definitely agree England were the better side. Good on you, and you have the makings of a good one-day side. Vaughan stepping aside has done wonders. India needs a revamp at some point with an emphasis on youth. I love Sachin, Saurav and Rahul, but it is time to start grooming youngsters for the future. And we really need a good all-rounder and batsmen who can bowl and bowlers who can bat! Every other team seems to have them. Fielding and running between wickets are obvious problems, perhaps youthfulness can help. Get cricketers with such talent and throw them in the deep end. In two years time we will have a one-day team to reckon with.
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Abi (#17):
You are confusing players. The cricket bat incident was Javed Miandad and, most recently, Shoaib Ahktar. Mike Gatting waved an angry finger under Shakoor Rana's nose and was rude to him (completely unacceptable), but never offered violence. I don't remember one of the not out Pakistani batsmen lending him a bat!!
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Rahul, has an Indian defeat ever been due to the opposition being better or is it exclusively because the umpire has robbed India?
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Nice round up of the series by Aggers - I think England were just about the better side over the seven games. Typical of some Indian fans to start crying about the umpires almost pathetically predictable. Tendulkar got a bad decision admittedly but Dravids seems like it could have gone either way.
Funny that in the end both teams lost in the competitions that their fans probably care most about (tests for England ODI's for India). Anyway good to see England finally look like they aren't completely inept at one day cricket - long may it continue. Next time can we get 5 tests against India though - it is ludicrous to me that we only play a short series against them.
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Some very interesting comments from Abi and Rahul. A true sports fan would admit that today India were comprehensively beaten. In boxing terms the towel should have been throwm in during the 30th over.
Some encoruaging signs for England, in terms of new young talent but clearly Freddie still a very important bowler for England.
However, cricket is all about test matches and hoping Donald can get our bowlers back to UK Ashes win standard. Signs so far are encouraging with Anderson clearly more agressive and bowling a better line and length.
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Well england got their revenge for the loss they suffered in 2002. In all fairness I as a loyal indian supporter think england with andrew flintoff are a superior side to india and thats what won them the match today. Flintoffs 86mph+ back of a length bowling is too much to handle for the indian batsman who just like hitting through the line of drive balls. Ganguly choked and was given a real working over and apart from tendulkar the rest of the indian batsman looked like they couldn't handle short pitched bowling. England played with pride and intensity unlike india today. I think its time to bring back the likes of Pathan, Harbhajan and Sehwag so that the indian team can move forward Ganguly and Sachin should take retirement into consideration from ODI cricket and focus on test cricket. PS we still won the test series 1-0 and thats all that matters haha
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Mark,
This is what Rob Smyth has to say about the 2 dismissials and the match...
Rob Smyth
Saturday September 8, 2007
Guardian Unlimited
Preamble Hello. England need 188 to win this one-day series after a very good performance in the field, especially from Dimitri Mascarenhas (3 for 23) and Aleem Dar, who triggered Tendulkar and possibly Dravid as well.
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" INTRODUCE RE_APPEALS "
IS ANYONE LISTENING ?? WHEN OTHER GAMES HAVE IT ; WHY NOT CRICKET ?
Firstly I do not want to take away the credit from England and yes they did play a better game in departments of fielding and bowling while India batted well.
But when i see these threads from some english people for eg: Thomas or Christian (nothing personal please) it makes me wonder how the same english people & english media would have taken these decisions if their best batsman was given out twice or thrice in one-day series and twice in the Test matches that preceeded the one-day ??? What could India have done ? acted irresponsibly like pakistan and walk away from the pitch bringing disgrace to the game of cricket ? aND YES i AM NOT SUGGESTING ANYTHONG STUPID LIKE PAKISTANI UMPIRE GIVING OUT WRONGLY TO INDIA'S STAR BATSMAN. ACCEPTED THAT BEST UMPIRES ARE HUMANS AND PRONE TO ERRORS. also Indian cricketers did take those decisions very very gracefully and continued to fight like true sportsman. THerefore indians do deserve the credit. As regards English media and people yes it is nice & expected to be happy to win the series but ask a question like a true sports people. Did the FINAL get played properly ? Can they really claim to be true winners of this final ??
FRANKLY, ENGLAND DID NOTHING WRONG FROM THEIR SIDE YET THEY CANNOT TAKE FULL CREDIT FOR THIS SERIES TODAY AND SO WOULD BE THE CASE IN FUTURE IF WE DO NOT IMPROVE THE GAME.
Thus the game needs improvement in umpiring standards. Maybe more technology, MAYBE "RE_APPEALS " . oh yeah why NOT ? RE_APPEAL or COUNTER APPEAL to be verified by sound or video replays. "EVENTUALLY IT SHOULD BE THE GAME OF CRICKET THAT SHOULD WIN AND NOT ENGLAND OR INDIA". LET THE TRUE WINNERS EMERGE FROM THE GAME.
" RE-APPEALS' MUST BE INTRODUCED IN THE GAME OF CRICKET .
UDAY
TORONTO
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Hello hello,
Someone said that we snicko was fair, remember Karthick dismissal in 3rd test match. The snicko showed no nick while Karthick s al thumping today,its as simple as that.
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Close one, yes, the crowd booed. The Indian supporters saw the replay and that the decision was wrong and booed loudly. The umpire then referred the decision and Collingwood was correctly given out. And yes, like Dravid today, he was extremely fortunate in not being punished for dissent. In a Test he would almost certainly have received a one match ban. Dravid would, in a Test, almost certainly have been fined.
In the Draid decision, the (neutral) umpire saw it out. Snicko saw it out. Replays saw it out. You want technology? It's 3-1 against the batsman.
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What is most unfortunate is that we use technology to see if the ball was stopped at the boundry line properly by the fielder ... for a difference of 1 or may be 2 runs. But the same technology is NOT used to see if the umpire messed up or not !!! I guess, 1 run is more important than 1 wicket !!!
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Great one day series and both teams should be happy with their performances.
I would have really liked to see Aggers column had England been on the receiving end of Aleem Dar's horrible decisions !! -- I am sure the analysis and conclusions would have been very different !! :-) -- clearly, poor umpiring decisions cost India the match.
Anyways, great coverage by 成人快手 and a fantastic series overall -- congrats to India for winning the Test series, and to England on winning the one day series.
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GREAT WIN ENGLAND, EXCELENT BOWLING BY ALL THE ENGLISH BOWLERS , IF THE SELECTORS STICK WITH THESE PLAYERS ENGLAND WILL BE A FORCE IN ONE DAY CRICKET, ALAN DONALD HAS DONE A GREAT JOB WITH THE BOWLERS, INSTEAD OF JUST BEING GOOD COUNTY PLAYERS THEY ARE NOW VERY GOOD TEST AND ONE DAY BOWLERS WITH AGRESSION.
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Yes Uthappa was out, bt he shudnt have been out there at the time. Tendulkar gt a shocker. I could tell in real time it wasn't out. England have also had some rough decisions. Prior in the previous game for example. Its a shame because it was such a good series. Truth is India were shocking when it mattered like at Old Trafford. They bottled it today. Yuvraj's shot selection ws just baffling. Im no coach but is easy to see he should have played staighter.
The fielding was so bad it wasn't funny.
England deserved to win, so well played
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Good review Aggers It was poor finale to what was a great series between two well matched teams. As for Rahul's pathetic complaints, over a 7 match series the umpire mistakes even themselves out. Only a blind fool (like Rahul) would argue that England did not deserve to win this series, and that India proved worthy opponents.
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Was it the umpires who decided to bat first having won (YET ANOTHER) toss this morning?
If we're whinging Poms God alone knows what you'd call some of the Indian "supporters" on here; they seem to have as much knowledge as some of those at Lord's today who were brainlessly cheering every single shot even as it rolled gently straight to a fielder.
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England fans, are so annoying. All fans are the same, they are naturally disappointed. England did deserve to win, but at the time people are too disappointed to admit it. England fans put themselves in other peoples shoes for once!!
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england fans calm down, you won a series this summer, well done.
then you have to say how bad we as indian fans are in not being gracious in defeat. You were the same after the test matches. Then i read people saying you should have played more test match cricket. we still would have won the series.
then england fans say how we care more about one-day cricket.
err. as a realistic indian fan i know that the test matches were far more important for the development of this team, an i for 1 was delighted that we won that comfortably in the end
test cricket is real cricket haha
chak de india
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Fascinating isn't it? When the side is losing, every decision seems to be against them. When they're winning, it's all OK. Sorry, India, England was robbed, repeat robbed, in the test at Lords, so live with a decision that perhaps wasn't correct in this ODI.
In any case, over time these bad decisions iron themselves out - had there been a four-test series as there should have been, England would have levelled the series.
In this ODI, England (with the inestimable influence of Freddie Flintoff) outplayed India today.
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Rahul.....
In the first test if monty got "that" wicket I suspect everything may have been different. In fact England would have probably won the test series and lost the one days due to not giving the right emphasis to both forms of the game.
However he didn't and India rightfully shaded the series. If ever a decision was pivotal that was the one.
To suggest all the bias nonsense is simply pathetic. England won the series because of the fielding and maybe because of Andersons bowling. Small margins.....
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It is a myth that bad fielding let to india's downfall. Had Gambhir, Yuvraj and Uthappa chosen good shots to play instead of the ones they played( i mean sensibly) a 250+ score would have been in the box. And not to mention the umpteenth time that Tendulkar has been thrown out of the game by a bad decision. Indian pace attack needs a right hander and they also need a good allrounder like Flintoff.
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Lessons to be learned from this series:
1. Please start tennis like challenges system in cricket. Every team gets 2 opportunities to challenge umpiring decisions. If they are right they keep the challenge else they lose it. Replays will not be televised instantly but after the batsman has walked off the field. If the batsman feels that he has been wrongly given out then he can consult his captain and challenge the decision.
2. England can really mold into a fine ODI unit. Flintoff is very crucial to their balance and they have exciting talent on the block in the form of Dimi and Wright.
3. Experienced teams are very essential for Tests and young and dynamic teams for ODIs. India and England due to these respective factors played that particular form of cricket well and won.
4. India defeated England 5-1 in India and lost 3-4 over here so they are the better team.
5. Even in tests England managed to draw a series in India but India won in England.
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Umpires - 3, Sachin - 0
ODI - India - 9, England - 5
Tests - India - 2, England - 1
(home and away - 2006-2007)
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This match continued the umpiring debacle that has palgued this series.
Over the summer, Sachin Tendulkar has received 3 incorrect dismissals in tests and one days.
Saurav Ganguly received despicable decisions at Trent Bridge and The Oval.
Rahul Dravid was given out wrongly in the second innings of the first test at lords.
Michael Vaughan was lucky to survive a caught behined appeal when he was aprox. 40 not out in the second innings at Trent Bridge. (he went on to make a century).
Jaffer was also unlucky in the second innings at The Oval.
Additionally, James Anderson was given not out when he was clearly lbw in the first innings at The Oval.
Stewart Broad was adjudged not out in the one day match at Old Trafford, a decision which, may have resulted in an Indian victory.
The only decisions I am aware of that have gone in India's favour were those of Sreesanth surviving a 4th innings lbw appeal at Lords, and Yuvray surviving a caught behind appeal in the 1 day match at Headingly.
Commentators maintain that the good and bad decisions even out.
Certainly this is the party mantra when the decisions have been so overwhelmingly in favour of Engalnd.
Error free umpiring in this series would have more than likely resulted in a 2-0 test series victory as well as a 1 day series victory (cf Stuart Broad lbw at Old Trafford).
Had umpiring this poor and so overwhelmingly in favour of the home team taken place in The Subcontinent, I am in no doubt that allegations of match fixing would have been raised by the English media.
As the poor umpiring took place on these shores, and, benefited England, "it all evens out in the end".
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I really enjoyed this series, I think on the whole England were the better sides, not because they excelled in any particular department but because they were as weak as the Indian team in many.
I enjoy all sports and I honestly find it very hard to understand why the Indian team are so bad at fielding, as a kid I used to love throwing myself about on the field, that was one of the best parts of cricket.
India have obviously got some great batsman, 2 decnt spinners and Zaheer Khan was very impressive all summer, if they can improve the fielding and add add a couple of allrounders they will be a top team.
England on the other hand need to work on getting a prolific opening partnership, if they do that and have flintoff available I think we will be very hard to beat.
I enjoyed reading most of the Indian supporters comments, I thought Dravid conducted himself very well throughout ths summer.
I have to say I cant really understand the moaning about the umpires because you had one lucky decision go for you and 1 unlucky, (im not countign Dravid he was out) thats generally what happens in cricket.
England had a few bad decisions aswell, I remember prior in oe of the previous games given out LBW when it was sailing over the top
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England deserved to win the series as they were a sharper ODI side . They showed better running between wickets, sharper fielding, safer catching and good aggression while batting and bowling.
The end scoreline correctly reflects that England played marginally better. Both teams still are a good ways away from being consistent and challenge a team like Australia. Australia will steam roll India or England 8 times out of 10 !!
One thing India badly need is more aggresive and consistent fast bowlers who can trouble batsmen , just as Flintoff is able to. Maybe one more Zaheer.
The other thing they need is a half-decent all-rounder.
As an Indian supporter I still feel happy with the overall performance India put in , in away conditions. If India had achieved the same result in home conditions I would have been disapointed.
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i'm not sure if you guys agree with me, but as i don't think it's really been mentioned thus far, i thought i'd bring it/him up; MS Dhoni..
he did play a fine innings in the final ODI but as an england fan with little previous knowledge of him, i was slightly dissapointed in his summer, with the bat at least as his reputation promised much more..he's a good keeper and a thoroughly likeable man but i was expecting more from him with the bat, especially as he had been talked up a an explosive, Gilchrist-esque performer..i know he's relatively young etc, but i just would have liked to see more from him, as i'm sure we will in the future..
compared to prior (who has to go), he's light years ahead, and whilst its always an honour to watch tendulkar, dravid, ganguly etc in the flesh, a thoroughly enjoyable summer of cricket would have been made slightly more so by a few more memorable contributions by Dhoni with the blade..
what do you guys think?
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I thoroughly agree with you Edwards. Dhoni was not in the best of touch for the ODIs.
Once he does get going his audacious strokeplay is a delight. I feel that we will see him at his best in the 20/20 WC.
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i hope so varun!!!..i've got a feeling he may be one of the stars of the 20/20 world cup
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An enjoyable summer of India versus England Cricket - Test and One Day.
Sad that so many wrong decisions went against Tendulkar who makes no fuss. Warne praised his attitude when he named Sachin number ONE cricketer of his time. I remember one or two great players of the past smashing dressing rooms when decisons went against them.
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It is my opinion that England would have won whether Tendulkar had been given out or not. Collingwood in particular looked in excellent form, and it seems likely that England would have been able to chase down a total well over 250.
England have overall been the better side. When they won they won convincingly, and when they lost they lost narrowly. On paper England always look a very good team, and now it seems that they are beginning to play this way. To beat such a strong team as India with Pietersen out of form is impressive. No chance in the 20-20 though.
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Jellybeans,
The umpires put India into place. When you go to Australia, there will be no support from the umpires. You will be put in place. So no worries...
Remember Collingwood getting frustrated over the umpire getting the decision correct. What sportsmanship!!! Sachin is given out when the ball hits the arm guard also.
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WOW there are some really angry and sad Indian fans,just take the defeat 4-3 and get on with it..Nevermind Tendulkar got a bad one,Or Dravid was not out,England had a lot of dubivous decisions too.It's all swings and roundabouts,it was a great series and boths teams could have won any amount of games,there was hardly anything in it...(apart from england are a far superior fielding side)Why all of a sudden we must need all the technolgy,?? because of some dodgy Umpiring .??Why need an Umpire.?
Oh and really WHY! did we play just 3 tests & 7 one-dayers..to please the ICC??
we all know who there secretly run by.
Come on its only a game in the end
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Jellybeans,
The umpires put India in place. When you go to Australia, there will be no support from the umpires. You will be put in place. So no worries...
Remember Collingwood getting frustrated over the umpire getting the decision correct. What sportsmanship!!! Sachin is given out when the ball hits the arm guard also.
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England showed bettter commitment and determination in final one dayer. They deserve to win the game.
But still the fact remains, the awful umpiring during the entire series has contributed England success a lot. 50% of Sachin dismissals during the series were incorrect.
Incorrect umpiring decisions during the series both test and onedays:
Sachin : 5 times
Dravid : 3 times
Saurav : 2 times
Laxman : 1 time
Karthik : 1 time
It is evident from the above, what helped England.
Siva
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Mr Imran Farooqui,
Everyone here playing/watching is human. What do you think about Darrel Hair?How was his umpiring in the last test when Pakistan visited England few months back?
Dont you think that he is Human just like Aleem Dar? Dont you think that he deserves to be brought back to do umpiring, coz he is HUMAN?
I wonder what would have your reaction, has it been someone YOU like in Tendulkar's place.
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They say ... in the end all the screw ups by umpires even out !!! Yeah ... right ... !!! try 4-1 in favour of ENGLAND !!!
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Name ONE England batsman who was actually NOTOUT but was given out by an umpire's mistake throughout the Test and ODI matches ??? In fact, KP was recalled at Lord's after being given OUT by the umpire,when, of all the people, Paul Collingwood, directed umpire's attention to the replay screen @ Lord's !!! hmmmm .......................................... !!!
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#116 At 03:27 PM on 09 Sep 2007, Rob wrote: How does anyone know Tendulkar wouldn't have been out next ball anyway? England were bowling well afterall!
Is this why lot of Indian players were given out incorrectly thru out the series thinking that they were probably going to get out in the next ball?
Thanks for clearing out that puzzle.
I know that what I have written below is ridiculous.
If Tendulkar was not given out in that ball, I think that POSSIBLY he would have scored 100 or may 200 or may be 300 or may be even 1000 runs?
Basically, nobody knows what was going to happen!!
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OK. So I felt cross at all the dodgy decisions against England in the last Ashes series but when the dust had settled I realised that actually we were well and truly stuffed by a better team.
If "ifs" and "buts" were pots and pans we'd all be tinkers - as one great Indian worthy once said.
It would have been so much better if Tendulker had been allowed to score a hundred in his last time in England but sadly that was not to be. There are still 10 other players in the team though and one (possibly 2) dodgy decisions doesn't excuse the woeful total India finally acquired.
One of the great features of this England team was the fact that all of our players (Matt Prior excepted) contributed thoughout the series and they didn't rely on just one or two heroes.
England deserved to win this series but 4-3 just about does it justice.
Anyway, well done India on a pretty good tour for you. I think ST and RD and even SG are good for another couple of years so don't ditch them yet.
And well done England for finally demonstrating a willingness to try and win an ODI.
And sorry, Sachin, for all the umpiring errors. As an England fan I felt nearly as cheated as you Indian fans.
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@DC post 80
1. Of course not! You may have noticed that I suggested that umpiring technology should be used more in these games. I agree that Tendulkar was not out, and that if that evidence is clear to the third umpire he should be given not out. However, the current rules to not incorporate the use of the third umpire. My point was this - if a batsman appears to the umpire that he is out, he is out. This is the same for both sides. Thus if Tendulkar plays a stroke that makes him appear to be out, the umpire should give him out. Technology allows fans to take the moral high ground on what was basically a poor shot. I cited Tendulkar's dismissal to Collingwood as an example of a decision in which poor shot selection was not responsible (although padding up should always be a risky thing to do, as it is so negative) so Tendulkar should feel particularly aggrieved in this case. In summary, my view is this: if a batsman is not under control of the shot, they run the risk of being out, because when you are not in control of the shot, you often appear to be out. This situation is the same for both sides. I concede that the rules probably should be changed to use more technology, but notably, not even Dravid supports this.
2. OK, but there seemed to be more evidence in favour of Dravid being out than not out. Notably earlier this series, Gambhir claimed to have got a nick when best evidence claimed he had not. So it may indeed be the case that umpires give a better judge than technology.
3. I wasn't 'moaning' over Flintoff, but he's pretty good, don't you think? And very important for the balance of the England side. It is my view that Tendulkar is utterly vital to India however in ODIs.
4. It was also my view, since the mini-collapse at the end of the first day of the first test vs India, that England wouldn't have a hope of winning the test series. I knew they didn't have the bowling ammunition to take 20 wickets and that the batting line up (e.g. Strauss) was shaky. I was proved correct.
The ODI series was different. The difference was that even when they lost, England never gave up: the second they looked dead and buried but lost by only 9 runs, the 5th Collingwood was still fighting on 90-odd when D/L intervened. And England should have lost the 6th comfortably after the platform Tendulkar and Ganguly had provided but fought back to make it close. The same cannot be said of India. Umpiring decisions may indeed have affected the scoreline, but aside from the Indian openers and useful contributions from the spinners and Dhoni, England matched or bettered India.
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I WANT to post a short message to thank Jonathan Agnew for his sprightly blogs this summer, analysing the England v India Test series and ODI series.
It is great for a casual cricket fan like me to read an impartial commentary of a match so soon after the day's play.
The Mayor of London's IndiaNow season, the historic Test victory and the comeback from 3-1 down in the ODI series has shown that the country of India is an emerging power on the World stage.
It is just a shame that Indians living in Britain will never see Rahul, Sachin and Sourav display their brilliant shots again; thanks for the memories, boys!
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Congrats to English team on winning the series.
England definetly outplayed India in the decider, umpire decisions not withstanding.
However, few pointers for both the teams:
England was playing at home in conditions best suited to their team, and against a team which gifts atleast 40-50 runs through its fielding and running btwn the wickets, yet the series reads 3-4, something to think about as the change in playing conditions and better teams will really test them.
For India, time and again poor bowling, fielding and running between the wickets costs them matches, when England were 20-2 in the final, 13 runs came as extras, in 3rd game when England were 7 down, Indian bowlers were unable to finish off the tail. Considering that the English team is not one of the best ODI sides, imagine the plight of Indians in front of other sides like Australia. As bowlers win matches, batting and fielding can save the matches too.. Hopefully Indian team will learn from this and go back to field rather than going for ram-walks and advertisment campaigns.
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i really don't understand - - - > why do people get so upset about incorrrect umpiring decisions? you're all totally missing the point of this beautiful, hilarious game. and the imperfections are what make it interesting. so get over your opposition-baiting, play hard-but-fair and trust the highly-trained umpire to do his best.
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How bitter are some of you India "fans"?
One of you even listed all the "injustice's" against the Indian team. No mention for England then? Funny that.
Well, don't worry, I'm sure India will soon be making an official complaint to the ICC and all the umpires involved will be sacked, England will be stripped of their trophy and Tendulkar, sorry I mean India, will be properly rewarded for a truly flawless team performance.
Yeah right! In the words of Mike Skinner, "Dry your eyes mate!"
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England won the Football world cup in the 60's and to equal that feat they have won the ODI series in 2007 against India.
Be it referees or Umpires, they love to suppoert England! Even 50 years on!!
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Fantastic series and a real good advert for the 50 over game, although I'm still not sure about it's future.
All the India fans complaining now just enforce the idea that you are VERY bad losers. Yes you had bad umpiring decisions (England got some too), yes you gave away runs in the field but don't use those as excuses for a team that ultimately did not beat an English side that is still on it's way to becomeing a good side (they are not a good side yet).
And in response to the comments about England over celebrating, let us, we don't get to celebrate that much.
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Poor umpiring have really taken away the charm of the series between India & England. I wonder why we cannot use the technology to take the correct decisions.A player if given out can be called back after carefully watching the video, I dont think the umpires will be insulted by doing so but they shold take it in a positve way.
Nick - Goa
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Despite his jingoistic efforts, Aussie_pride makes 1 good point: all this whining is really tedious and distracting from what was an excellent series with some top cricket played by both sides. A mixture of players from these two teams would regulary beat the Aussies or anyone else (no I am not having a pop at Oz, they are the best thats all).
I cannot believe what some 'fans' find to complain about. Yes, umpires got it wrong once or twice but no more that has ever been the case for the last 20 years.... and retirements? What rubbish!
Sachin played a couple of the best 1-day innings I've ever seen during this series, and Saurav is the nearest thing India have to a world-class all-rounder. Dravid's captaincy is perhaps not great, but his batting is still up there with the best. India would be mediocre without them... they need to find a seamer or 2 that can get a wicket when required: see how much better England are with Flintoff in that role. And people also suggested Pietersen should be dropped when he has averaged over 40 and contributed significantly to wining a couple of games at least.... he was ranked no.1 not that long ago, and the man cant score centuries every week!
Get a grip.
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England desvered to win the series.There is no point blaming umpire. India need all rounder cricketers, good captain and coach. !!!!
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I can understand why all these Indian fans are whinging. Lets face it, as a nation your pretty rubbish at sport. (sorry, your better than us at Hockey). So when you lose to England at the only other sport your supposedly better than us at, your bound to whine about the umpires/conditions/which way the wind is blowing.
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Tendulkar's dismissal was deserved even though he missed the ball completely. After all, his mistake was SO bad that he didn't get an edge. Therefore it was a worse shot than if he had hit it. So the umpire was correct to give him out on purely moral grounds.
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Yes England deserved to win specially when they played with 13 players including two umpires against 11 from India.
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England truly deserved to win the series bcoz of their superior bowling and fielding.The umpiring went in favour of England but that is not the reason for India's poor performance in ODIs.How long can they depend on sachin and dravid who are the fag end of their career? India need to promote Yuvraj singh up the order and what is Dhoni doing at no.7,he is being wasted at that place.The bowling appears pop gun at the moment.India desperately need a genuinely quick fast bowler who can take wickets when required.Zaheer Khan is good but not getting enough support from his fellow seamers.Ajith Agarkar should not be selected again,despite playing 191 ODIs he is still clueless and leaks runs at 7 per over,pretty shambolic to say the least.
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