成人快手

Your right about one thing; "I never heard of Ted Haggard."

However, I believe your wrong about this having an effect on voters. Liberals here in the U.S. will try to negatively associate this with something conservative, just like the Mark Foley pot shot.

The John Kerry blunder will have a more decisive effect.

I can't help it - I love this. Schadenfreude may be wrong, but Haggard has earned every bit of it. It's very gratifying to watch the American hyper-right crumble under its own hypocrisy and hubris. One of the US's most visible evangelicals is a meth-smoking, gay prostitute hiring liar. Fantastic stuff!

something is terribly wrong with human relationships within church culture - and not only with Ted Haggard - when a leader can stray that badly for an extended period of time, and nobody detects it. This comes from a culture which is superficial by nature, and does not appreciate the investment of time and discernment and humility required for true Christian relationships. This is much of the evangelical culture today.

We've seen similar events around leaders of the American religious right before.
One good weeping session in front of his flock interspersed with the usual 'temptd by satan' stuff and all will be forgiven

You sure wish that that were so, Greg. But consider, is John Kerry's botched joke going to convince someone to change sides? I mean, despite the swift boats, 48% supported him. And he isn't running for office. And he was right, bush is incompetent. Only deluded and desperate Republicans think Kerrys comment has significance, because they so wish America wasn't paying attention to the Republican cheerleaders who drove us into the war, and who now wish they had nothing to do with supporting Bush.

Now, a top Evangelical leader, who boasted to Time that he had a direct line to the white house, a man who decries homosexuality in all forms, who is supporting a gay marriage ban, ADMITS to buying meth from his male "massage therapist," but Denies having sex, resigns as LEADER of an organization that represents 45,000 different churches, and steps down as head of his 14,000 member church, and you think Kerry's flub will be more significant?

Right, and Mr. Haggard did not have sexual relations with that gay prostitute who supplied him with meth.

Gay? Sex? Drugs? A supporter of Guy marriage? Wither he denies it or not all I wish to say can be summed up using the words of Galatians chpt 6 vrs 7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Since when does urging armed US action against a Muslim country constitute "broadening the Christian agenda"? Haggard's bellicose statements against Sudan over Darfur sound like the same old right-wing anti-Muslim warmongering to me. US "Christians" should be looking at the consequences of their own government's actions in Iraq before they start calling for a re-run elsewhere.

Huh? Kerry made a joke...which has a ring of truth to it.

For "Pastor Ted" is seems In god's eyes it's OK to pay someone of the same gender to do really freaky, drug-crazed, depraved, kinky sex stuff to you. It's only an abomination if you want to have a committed relationship. Let's see...Bill Clinton and felatio in the White House versus GW and tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of people killed in Iraq. No wonder the world hates us.

Great stuff! I remember Haggard berating Richard Dawkins in Channel 4's "The Root of All Evil" (part 1), ordering him not to "be arrogant" and accusing Dawkins of "calling my children animals" before escorting him off the premises. Well Dawkins must be laughing now... pass the crystal meth and the poppers Ted!

this is very sad for all the many people involved, which is millions.

All I can say is, don't be hard on him. And don't be hard on yourselves.

By drawing all of these lines of right and wrong you have created division where there is none.

Examine your heart and find out where all this fear and anxiety comes from.

Then you may be free.

I don't quite get it. This is an issue which should concern people within the Christian faith, but why should it bother people outside Christianity who do not believe in Christian values on sexuality?

If the allegations are true, Ted was attempting to meet his multi-faceted sexual needs while at the same time secure his livelihood and be politically astute. Unfortunately, it didn't quite work. He got caught in the intersection of the social conventions of his own faith community and his sexual deviations from those conventions. Clearly, he didn't have the social process to make it through this particular maze.

However, why should secular, non-Christian people get so excited about this? It isn't like Ted's actions transgress their own moral code. I'm sure that many people who are making judgmental comments about Ted are not above trying to avoid getting caught by the particular system that they are working in.

It is unfortunate when one's failure to live his life by the standards he prescribes for others. However, it is not the fault of those to whom the failing one has been handing out his prescriptives. In this particular situation to blame the Evangelicals who chose him to be their leader are not to blame - Rev. Ted Haggard is to blame.

It is too bad that here in the states we have seen many Evangelical ministers brought down by two things - lust for money and lust for aberrant sexual behaviour both heterosexual and homosexual. But then what's so unusal about that? What most often brings down politicians?

Oh yes his followers will forgive him. But I find it interesting that all homosexuals will burn in hell because it's an abomination but he's going to heaven.

It gets harder and harder for me to hear someone say how good of a Christian they are, I find quite a few are liars cheaters and thieves.

Money, power, and sex.

The sadness for all Americans is what this means for the global image of modern America and their stature as a "moral superpower"

With recent scandals such as Abu Ghraib, CIA prisons overseas, Jack Abramoff and Mark Foley this is another layer of paint that illustrates a picture of hypocracy.

George W Bush's war on terror should not simply be on the streets of Iraq but reaching out to moderate Islam with a remorseful tone that the US (alongside everyone else) is far from perfect.

There is nothing new under the sun and there will always be a sex scandal round the corner but on this one GWB needs to take an initiative and you never know it might be an opportunity and work in his favor.

True Christians (followers of Christ) will continue to follow Christ, and not worry much about what people do -- "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

It's sad that so many Christians are flock-like and not living in the freedom of Christ. This should serve as a wake-up call to Christians around the world to draw closer to God and not men. Too many Christians are interested in moving up socially within their churches, and therefore don't confront sin, even when it is apparent.

I new there was something not quite right about paster Ted and his over the top high on the bible preaching.
When are these evangelicals going to wake up and admit day to day reality doesn't have much in common with their heaven and hell, good and evil belief system thats as prone to corruption as communism.

Ted Haggard is a most unfortunate example of a gay man who despises himself. He actively campaigned against the right to gay marriage! If Haggard was living an authentic life, he would not need to have furtive trysts with a male escort. He would probably be in a gay relationship where the issue of gay marriage would definitely impact his life. Religious intolerance has led him to live a lie and it has now damaged his wife and five children. How many more are out there?

The religious right is fearful that the "gay agenda" is gaining ground but I believe it is religious dogma that is losing relavence. There will be the holdouts and some may still have considerable influence, but their days are numbered. It is only a matter of time until our positive contributions to society are realized by most. We are people who have not been given fully the right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. If that ideal is not fully realized by all, this grand 200 year experiment will collapse.

"I don't quite get it. This is an issue which should concern people within the Christian faith, but why should it bother people outside Christianity who do not believe in Christian values on sexuality" - Sven

Sven, you don't get it at all! If your religion was a private matter for yourself and your co-religionists, I would have no problem with what you say - but it's not and it's never been so. It's about proslytising and extending your religion and values to others. It's about exclusion of others who don't agree with you. Your "Christian" values have seen the lives of countless millions of gay people destroyed - whether by exclusion, fear, medicalization, imprisonment, torture or ultimately murder - yes - Christianity has vastly contributed to this

So - forgive the gay community just a bit of schadenfreude at Mr Haggard's plight and a lot of anger at the sickening hypocrisy he represents

How gratifying it is to see yet another of the oh-so-holy, rightous Christian hypocrites get nailed (so to speak).

OK, so he says there was no sex...one can only image what the "massage" was that he received. Why hire a male prostitute if all you want is a massage? C'mon Ted. Fess up. Your God will judge you even harsher, I suspect, for not coming clean (no pun intented).

How backwards are this man's priorities that he (when pretty much caught doing both) would more quickly admit to meth than gay sex? This is another example of how the religious right's laws and morals apply only to everyone else.

kevin - Atlanta, U.S.

From what I can see. Jack Abramoff, Mark Foley, corruption in Ohio, Enron, Cardinal Bernard Law, Haliburton, Ted Haggard etc etc etc...
Shouldn't the Moral Majority be rename the Immoral Majority.

In answer to Sven:

This is not merely a matter for Christians. This man stands guilty of hypocrisy by any measure and deserves to suffer the consequences.

His stance on same-sex marriage HAS affected people across the spectrum of faith [or no faith].

I wholeheartedly agree with David Weaver's observation that it's apparently quite OK in modern American society to pose as a God-fearing family man [whilst - allegedly - having gay relationships] but not OK to want to have a legally recognised relationship if you are gay.

The 成人快手's front page is overestimating the significance of this scandal. I never heard of Haggard until I read about him on the 成人快手, and I am a practicing Protestant Christian. Religion in the US is decentralized; there is no official church hierarchy and to speak of Ted Haggard as a "top cleric" is nonsensical. It's not like he's the Archbishop of Canterbury. I wonder if this interest in a fallen preacher (an old and enduring archetype in American art and society, by the way) has more to do with your editors' fears about the vastly exaggerated role of religion in US politics than with anything else.

Pastor White stated "When the shepherd is struck, the sheep scatter," when will they realize all shephards lead their sheep to slaughter? This is nothing new and it will happen again and again and again. The scattering flock would do well to read Richard Dawkins book 鈥淭he God Delusion鈥�, then at least the fall of the shepherds won鈥檛 be from such heights.

first of all i feel sorry for his wife and children ,the big picture is finally unfolding, this is the same religion that god spoke through and gave bush the blessing to go to war in iraq to kill over 500,thulsand inocent women and children,all because they belive they are the axis of evil,i wonder who the axis of evil is acording to the allmighty

You write "supporters of gay marriage will certainly be cackling loudly"

Cackling?

A curious choice of word. Why not just "laughing"?

Would you have used this word had not the most vocal supporters been gay?

Sven wrote:
"However, why should secular, non-Christian people get so excited about this? It isn't like Ted's actions transgress their own moral code."

I think I can speak for 99.999% of secularists when I say deceit and hypocrisy are contrary to the principals we hold dear. Honesty, integrity, and compassion are valued by everyone Sven.

When my wife and I are in the states we always look forward to going to New Life Church. It's one of the greatest chuches I've ever seen.

Right now I'm grieving hard over the lose of my Pastor.
We really love Pastor Ted.

I always tell young believers not to put your eyes on men but to keep their eyes on Jesus because men will usually let you down. Jesus is still a friend who will never leave and sticks closer than a brother.

The prophets have said these are the years of Judgement. We need to judge ourselves or God will.

There is absolutely nothing moderate in the over all Evangelical movement in the US. Its foundation of religious hypocrisy, making an idol out of the American family with no conscious toward destroying the families of our enemies, its bizarre attitude toward human sexuality; on the one hand encouraging repression, on the other, forgiving their own of almost anything, their embracing of greed and accumulation of wealth as a central Christian virtue, the vilification of anyone different than themselves (cookie-cut-out drones for Jesus, a Jesus by the way, created in their own imagine (and not the other way around), and their underlying message that is you are not a Republican conservative, you are not as "saved" as they are (if at all). Without a doubt, these left over Puritans are killing what is left of authentic Christianity in this country.

One has to come to the conclusion that the Gingrich revolution in 1994 to bring the conservative right to power in the US
has badly backfired.The moral planks supporting that movement have fallen away one by one, as those who were supposed to support the Christian moral values of conservative America have proved unequal to the task. The ' Moral Right ' has become to American politics and conservative values the 'Moral Blight'
Should we be surprised? I guess not, really! Power corrupts, none more so than for those who believe they are cloaked in the invincibility of electoral support. However,they are finding out just now how quickly that can change. Haggard is just one more sorry piece of that jigsaw to fall into place.

Philip Stevens, Roatan,Honduras

As a Christian, I am saddened about the news about another church scandal (Haggard). I did not know of Ted Haggard before 48 hours ago. However, and am not convinced the political ramifications will be as broad as John Green and Mike Jones say.

Jones said, "It may doom a ban on gay marriage for which Mr. Haggard had been campaigning in Colorado.鈥�

Haggard's hypocrisy gives pro gay marriage supporters fuel to burn. However, it does not change the principles on which Christian supporters would base their support of a ban on gay marriage. Speaking for myself, I make decisions based on the content and value of a ballot measure, not who supports it.

Green was paraphrased as saying, 鈥淪ome evangelicals will be left wondering who they can trust, and stay home in despair. Others will be furious at the attack on their leader and be even more motivated to vote."

My vote as a Christian is not dependant on a church leader. I am not a robot that follows the dictate of any man. Voting is a right and privilege in the United States of America that I see as a civic responsibility and will continue to be actively involved in. I certainly will not "stay home in despair". My vote and conscience is influenced strongly by the tenants of my Biblical faith. However, I also consider the principles and heart of those tenants when I make a decision.

Haggard faces consequences for his actions, as he should, but he can have hope. Jesus provides all of us with the way for us to be reconciled. Hope, that Haggard and all of us can be sure of, is faith in Christ and his promises, which will face trials that requires perseverance in that faith. Haggard obviously did not face the trail but folded.

God never changes even in the midst of constant change and trials, and neither should a Christians vote. God is still perfectly just and loving. On the other hand, if you look around you can see we all fall short of being perfectly just and loving. We all need to be reconciled. My experience is that faith in Jesus is trustworthy. On the good days I am grateful for my Hope. So as an American and as a Christian I can say I gladly voted my conscience in this 2006 election.

Innocent until otherwise proven guilty! It's only fair to grant a common falible human being the benefit of the doubt.

However, let's recognise this man is nothing more than a common person. Unfortunately, many of these "flock leading" evangelists (and oftentimes their subordinates) acquire a life-choking aire of moral superiority.

This behaviour may sometimes result in what we are witnessing in Ted Haggard. Subordinate evangelicals tend to get away with more given they're out of the limelight. End result, we are all falible humans prone to failure regardless of whether we are bible-thumping Christians, or heathens. It makes no difference.

I first registered to vote in 1972 when my mom dragged me to the local clerk's office. At that time I registered as a Democrat, a tradition my family started generations ago. Through the years I've watched the Republicans go from conservative caring people to now they've become charicatures of themselves. The extreme views against other cultures and self piety, combined with their ability to ignore any problems in their leaders and their own personal issues, makes me sad. The other part that makes me mad is that these deluded people have convinced exactly half of the country that they're right, and that bush is the right choice. bush is like the Roman popes who sent soldiers into the Crusades--hundreds of years later nothing about them is remembered except how bloddy and vicious they were. What a sad, sad, position my country is in now. Pray for us, that we wise up and don't elect fools like this next time.

Gee, makes you wonder about the people who actually wrote the religous works that condemns same sex love in the first place. Poor Leviticus author...no poppers back then. And what was Paul so worried about? And he wasn't the last to write on the subject...

Sucks to get judged. I was judged as a gay man when in fact I am transgendered but didn't know it. I was ex-communicated from the Seventh Day Adventist Church, my marriage destroyed.

I'm now a member of the UCC, happily.

These organized rightwing nut churches need to look askance of THEMSELVES. Judge not that ye be JUDGED.

The Haggard situation is a good example of why we (and by "we", I mean those on the religious right who want to force their personal rules of moral and ethical behavior on the complete strangers throughtout the country) have enough to deal with taking care of our own demons, let alone spending our time "saving" everyone else.

The moral absolute which Ted Haggert preached does not logically disappear, because of any hypocrisy on his part. Rather it stands independent, ready to humble anyone(including the one proclaiming it).

Telling the world about such personal things made me ill. The man has no class at all. What is wrong with people who would do this on TV for the world to see. And I thought that the man who beat his girlfriend was bad.

Yet another one of these who would tell us how to live ourlives is shown up as a hypocrit, liar, fraud and charlatan.

Yet the good old American right-wing "christian" machine will carry on doing what it does best, conning the gullible out of their money, selling it's fairy tale, and supporting hypocracy through it's motto of "do what I say, not what I do."

If Jesus ever returns to earth he'll nail himself to the cross when he sees what America has done to his simple message.

The only difference between Ted and all the other big evangelical bigshots is that Ted got caught. No one amasses that much power in the USA today without committing many sins and breaking more than a few laws along the way.

Personally, I just don't understand why people would rather go to some cold 14,000 seat threater to see these idiots than to a local 100 seat church where you get to socialize and actually meet people and the pastor.

I'm really saddened by this story.

Whatever the rights and wrongs, I hope that New Life Church will stand by this man and his family. If they are a church built on the gospel of Christ, as I suspect they are, the congregation will get through this and do as Jesus did - love those who had sinned.

New Life Church, there are many of us in Scotland praying for you at this time.

Sven wrote: "why should secular, non-Christian people get so excited about this? It isn't like Ted's actions transgress their own moral code."
I鈥檒l have to ask: Why should 鈥淐hristian鈥� people like Haggard and his followers in the 鈥渞eligious鈥� right 鈥済et so excited鈥� about abortion? It isn鈥檛 like it 鈥渢ransgresses their own moral code鈥�.
Do unto others, Bud. You鈥檙e free to blindly follow some lying hypocrite if it floats your boat 鈥� and other people are free to follow THEIR own code. It鈥檚 called religious freedom.. It鈥檚 called separation of church and state. And by the way, there are many Christians who believe the 鈥渞eligious鈥� right is nothing more than a cult and should to get out of politics. We don鈥檛 legislate 鈥渞eligion鈥� here.
If we were all kind, generous, thoughtful, honest, humble and diligent human beings, no doubt we鈥檇 find the 鈥渂usiness鈥� of self improvement and service leaves no time for pointing out the 鈥渟peck鈥� in our brother鈥檚 eye while overlooking the plank in our own. I鈥檓 glad the Haggard scandal has focused national attention on the improper and unamerican role of extremists in the religious right and their ongoing campaign to force their narrow 鈥渂rand鈥� of self serving hypocritical values on everyone else. Instead of uplifting the country with some vision of love and brotherhood, they鈥檝e become an abomination, a hatemongering cult and a disgrace not only to America but to anything called religion, anywhere.

Victor writes:
The moral absolute which Ted Haggert(sic) preached does not logically disappear, because of any hypocrisy on his part. Rather it stands independent, ready to humble anyone(including the one proclaiming it).

But when the messenger is so flawed how can you trust the message he delivers. When most of the religious leaders say one thing and do the opposite in their private life, one has to wonder if what they are preaching is a way to control their followers and not the "moral absolute". Their fake "weapons of destruction" as it were.

The fact that Mr. Haggard couldn't follow the teachings of his religion, in spite of preaching them day in and day out and knowing the dangers of not following them, says perhaps the "moral absolutes" are an illusion. How can a religion that judges people on their most basic needs and makes them feel guilty can be taken seriously when it talks about an all loving god? To love is to accept.

Go for it Ann R. you are right on the button!

Ted Haggert was a man who had the ear of the US president on a near weekly basis, one can only assume the worth of a man is judged by the company he keeps. Is it small wonder this creeping invasion of religious dogma into the body politic of the US has all but hamstrung the institutions of state. While G.W.Bush is entitled to his beliefs, he is not entitled to insinuate the views and moral agenda of a religious group over and above the electorate by a back door process, with the use of presidential decrees, or veto the wishes of congress for personal reasons. The US got rid of one 'King' George and his interference and it looks like they may have to do it again.

"While G.W.Bush is entitled to his beliefs, he is not entitled to insinuate the views and moral agenda of a religious group over and above the electorate by a back door process"

It isn't a back door process. The President is fully able and allowed to put forth policies that are based on his religion or morals. The only stipulation is that he can not mandate a religion. The 1st Amendments does not stop him from using his own religion as a bases for the path of the country. He is also allowed to veto anything from Congress that passes below a certain percentage of votes.

Derek - The President is subject to checks and balances. It's of, by, and for the people last time I checked. And non-profits - religious groups cannot act (OR BE USED)as political tools.
Except in a theocracy. And of course in a fascist dictatorship back doors are handy...

I think it was Billy Graham who said something like (paraphrased very loosely) "Pay attention to what a preacher preaches about the most. He preaches about his own sin."

I'm going to get out the popcorn and watch Jesus Camp now. I found the prospect too painful before, but now that Haggard has put the Camp back in Jesus Camp it should be an hilarious romp.

Someone mentioned America as being a "moral superpower", hee hee the crazy notions you deluded people have. FWIW America has always been looked down on as a sewer of hypocrisy and greed. Why didn't you know that?

Victor (41) is right. The message is higher than the messenger. The only perfect messenger was Jesus. Many who believe stealing is wrong have stolen themselves, it doesn't invalidate the message, it just condemns them as thieves.

Haggard is condemned by the message, doubly so for the hypocrisy involved and triply so if it was ever delivered without compassion for those it touched since he himself was one. Its interesting that Jesus preached against adultery and said to even look with lust was to commit adultery in the heart, and yet despite setting such a high moral standard there was so much compassion, love and acceptance that the non-religious and even prostitutes wanted to be around him.

The one thing that makes me angry about this whole evangelical thing: Ted Haggard has apologized and asked forgiveness of his congregation (well, he did, anyway in the letter read by the new pastor to a crowd of 15,000 or so). But, while he owes them an apology, I think he owes a bigger apology to all the victims of hate crimes spurned on by his hypocritical agenda against gays. There are certainly consequences in words, and words from a pulpit of such magnitude carry heavy weight. His rhetoric and anti-gay propoganda all this time was supposedly a way to cover his own indiscretions (to the christian world, anyway), but result in many people taking him literally. His words gave ammunition to a part of society bent on hate and even violence against what is nearly 10% of the American population.

The U.S is a feudal state. The religious right enjoy as much political power and practice the same level of hypocrisy as the Unreformed Catholic church of the medieval ages.

When I believed in God and Christ (shortly before I found out that santa wasn't true either) I was taught about loving one's neighbour (Not literally Ted), rejecting material wealth and tolerance. In fact Jesus was probably the first true Communist.

"let he who have 2 coats give to him that hath none" Religious messages can be beautiful - until they get distorted by those using them for their self interest. The state of most modern religions has turned me into an atheist.

Humans these days love to please their emotions,pleasures,desires, interests, the pople around them.but basically just like the Word has spoken "poeple will be lovers of themselves" and the "very elect shall fall".And this is exactly what is happening.so, do not be surprised nor discouraged.
Ted Haggard is not to be dealt or judged by us humans who ar ejust like him for from dust we came and to dust we shall go.what he has done has unclear words to describe the severity effected on the sheeps that have been gathered but through everything he is only accountable to GOD,our Holy and upright Master.For whatever is about to happen we do not know for "My thoughts" says the LORD " are not yours, and my ways are different form yours.As high as the Heavens are from the Earth so High are my ways and thoughts above yours".Keep on Praying people for our brother in Christ Jesus.Do not condemn.

Does anyone else feel sorry for this man? Go beyond his hypocrisy and just look at the level of self hatred Ted Haggard must have. He truly believes in a God who would condemn him for his sexual orientation. He has lived with that for his entire life. He was obviously over-compensating all these years by preaching so vigorously against homosexuality. On some level he was trying to exorsize this "sin" from himself. I cannot help but feel sorry for anyone who believes that they are anything other than perfect as God made them. I