Wales player ratings
- 24 Feb 07, 11:44 PM
Cardiff - Wales stunned France with two early tries but were unable to stop the powerful home side from thundering back to keep alive their Grand Slam hopes with a 32-21 victory in Paris.
See if you agree with my ratings.
WALES:
L Byrne – 7: Remarkably assured performance considering this was only his second game since mid-January after injury. Linked up well in attack but was caught out of position for Dominici’s try.
M Jones – 6: Very little opportunity to show his pace, but made one stunning break which almost resulted in a try early in the second-half.
T Shanklin – 8: A superb try-scoring display, full of aggression in attack and defence. Provided the balance the Wales midfield had been missing in the two previous defeats and almost gave Wales the perfect start to the second-half with a try.
J Hook – 6: Another quiet performance and guilty of a number of missed tackles, but did well to feed Shanklin for the second try.
S Williams – 6: Came off his wing at every opportunity to look for work. Showed glimpses of his side-stepping magic, but found the France defence a tough nut to crack.
S Jones – 6: A vast improvement on his showing in Scotland, and showed his attacking threat by beating his opposite number to create Robinson’s try. Uncharacteristically wasteful with his attempts at goal and seems unable to inspire his troops.
D Peel – 7: Did his best behind a retreating scrum and was assured in the tackle. Few of his trademark snipping runs, but suffered from a lack of clean possession.
G Jenkins – 5: Brought in to ensure an improvement in the scrums, but found himself on the retreat more often than not.
M Rees – 5: Difficult circumstances in which to make his first Six Nations start. Struggled with his line-out throwing in the first-half but did plenty of work in the loose to earn another chance.
C Horsman – 5: Failed to provide the brute force in the front-row his inclusion was designed to achieve. Continued his habit of conceding needless penalties. Allowed Dominci to get past him far too easily for France’s first try.
I Gough – 7: Made a storming start by stealing French line-out ball and knocking the French backwards with some big hits. Fell away towards the later stages, but did enough to keep his place to face Italy.
A W Jones – 5: A quiet game by his rising standards. Failed to disrupt France line-out ball and showed few glimpses of his undoubted athleticism.
A Popham – 9: A typical all-action performance - head and shoulders above his colleagues in the pack. Showed his pace and power to score and great opportunist try, and worked tirelessly in defence. Proved beyond doubt he deserved to keep his place after calls to re-call veteran Colin Charvis.
M Williams – 7: Plenty of work in defence to keep him busy, which he performed with his usual tenacity. The lack of ball meant he was less prominent than usual in link-up play.
R Jones – 6: Largely anonymous in both defence and attack. Wales needed a bigger performance from their number eight.
Replacements:
J Robinson – 7: Showed his pace to breeze past the last France defender to score his late try, and made a few half-breaks after replacing Mark Jones.
M Phillips – 7: Did his claims of a start against Italy no harm with a lively display in the final 15 minutes. Added impetus to the Wales attack which seemed to lift the whole team.
D Jones – 5: Replaced Horsman but had little chance from the France front-row.
Other replacements did not have enough time to earn a mark.
Wales 27-18 England
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A much better performance than two weeks ago but we must win our own set piece, no excuses. Certainly Popham and Gough can hold their heads up high, great defensive displays, great commitment.
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I'm sure the Welsh will be cautious of Italy. They nearly stuffed the English away, they stuffed the Scots away today that's for sure.
The Italians need encouragement, not cynicism. The Italians have had to deal with a lot of harsh criticism/decisions. For rugby to be a global game the Italians need support, just like the Argentines need an annual competition.
I have no problems with the Welsh, but I'm sure they can appreciate my position in supporting an underdog. Just like the Welsh most likely supported the Italians against England. Nothing personal, no obligations to support neighbours, just an appreciation of an underdog who has some class and needs to shine to prove themselves. And boy did the Italians make a statement today!
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Your rating make no mention of the fact that when Horsman went off and Jones replaced him, forcing Gethin to move to the other side of th scrum, Wales were utterly dominated. On that basis D Jones scores 3 at most, he's unfit and doesn't pull his weight
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I agree with the chap who says we must support the Italians, the under-dog; the tournament will be more thrilling, rugby must become universal, what a game comparesd to others where players simulate an injury to influence the ref...Jean-Pierre "Froggy"
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seems a fair score on the players, definatley think that Jenkings may have screwed up by making steven jones captain, he played alot better yesterday (against the french) but i think we need to look at Hook (fly half) with Henson & Shanklin in the middle, i dont think we can leave it much longer to try (what everyone in wales wants to see) that combination with the world cup coming in sept.
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Being a SA'can rugby fan living in London without SKY, I felt.. bereft...disadvantaged. No S14, No Currie Cup - No such luck ( from my wife's viewpoint, at least).
This year's 6 nations has been absolute quality. Electrifying rugby, emotionally laden atmospheres, entertaining/informative panarama of the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ commentry team, excellent camera angles.
The French continue to impressive, if the AB's werent invincible this year, Id rate 'le bleus' as World Cup favourites.
A big thank you to the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ for providing such an entertaining well-covered service on the best game in the world!
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3 matches with Northern hemisphere Referees and so far no bitching about rule interpretation and "cheating" being allowed. Nothing personal against SH referees, but we do seem to have more flowing games and yesterday's were 3 crackers for me.
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If you really want this game to be "universal" you could also start giving player ratings to the French and Italian teams when they play against the English-speaking world. ;-)
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a scots fan here. i dont think you have much to fear from Italy, they dont offer anything offensively and today against Scotland they were handed a victory on the plate.
If Wales play an expansive game against them keep the tempo fast then they should smash them.
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A much better performance than the last two matches but we are still lacking the cutting edge.If the kicking by Wales had been more fruitful they would have been in touch or even lead at the later stage and who knows?.France deserved the win but Wales can take some thing from this match with a three try to two count it is not all doom and gloom.They will not be the wooden spoon team this campaign as I feel they are driving the right way but but need to put a foot down on the accelerater.
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A better performance but our allround kicking game is poor,and our front row was under pressure from the start, this got even worst after the introduction of Duncan Jones.
Italy in Rome will be a big threat!
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Far greater preformance than other games by the welsh, but yet again our set piece let us down. Although far greater work by the likes of Ian Gough to get to the oppositions set piece. Mike Phillips to start against Italy ?
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To the person who said Duncan Jones doesn't pull his weight because France dominated more when he came on. Two things, firstly a big factor was probably the arrival of Sylvain Marconnet who is one of the best scrummagers in the world. Secondly, Gethin Jenkins is not as strong at tight head as at loose head. I don't think there's much in it between Jenkins and Jones at loosehead but Horsman and Adam Jones are both much better at tight head than Jenkins. That was the big difference, not Jones' lack of effort.
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Duncan jones does not deserve a 3, when gethin moved to tighthead he found it too difficult to deal with millourd and marconnet. if anything that should force gethins rating down. Duncan did as much work as gethin did when he was only on for mins, and deserves a 5.
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There was a big improvement in Wales yesterday the only problem was it was france which are a tuff team to beat even out of their stadium. wales need to win their last matches though to give people some hope for the world cup.
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and 0 out of 10 for the coaching team who are out of their depth.
Hook is too light to play inside centre ( note to coach: he is a 10 )
The bench selections are not able to change a game.
I feel sorry for the players as they give their all but the guy in charge is trying to turn a ferrari into a morris minor because that is all he knows how to drive,
Trouble is we are stuck with this clown now. He keeps talking about fixing things and building on things but this team wasn't broken when he took over. There were good reasons why our results were not great last year. It needed tweaking not dismantling. Gareth Jenkins is a fool and his coaching team are found wanting.
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A few random comments:
Well done Italy. I'm surprised Scotland fouled up; composure is one of their few assets. Watch out Wales!
We've got to back Gareth Jenkins as Welsh coach, but I've always felt that choosing Stephen Jones as captain was plain stupid. That said I'm not quite ready to thrust Hook into a No10 jersey ahead of Jones (though I'm not sure the lad is learning that much at centre (Lyn Jones please note!))
Wish I shared Ben Morgan's optimism about Jones the Prop. I'm an Ospreys supporter and I suspect that he can't currently cut it as a scrummager at international level, though he's mobile and a good al-round player.
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against italy there needs 2 b sum changes in my opinion. stephen jones lacking his usually accurate kickin both out of hand n wen points were on the line. drop him. play hook at 10, shanks at 12 n alfie at 13 with alfie havin the captaincy back.
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A better performance although we still seem to lack direction. 40% possession is never going to give us a platform to play our expansive game and I just cannot understand why we kick the ball away so aimlessly on so many occasions. The ratings reflect the game fairly. AWJ and Horseman need to stop giving so many penalties away!
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Ah well from the Heights of Grand Slam two years ago, to the distinct possibility of a Wooden Spoon in the World Cup Year...
What gone wrong???
Similar squad of players...So no answer there
The problem with Welsh Rubgy as it had always been with the management and those who control the game....
The Welsh game seems to have been stiffled, we need to let our players do what they know best... The Welsh way of play..... Go out there and be your own player......
At the end of the day if the players themselves make quick decisive decisions at the spur of any moment, not knowing what they will do next... how will their opponents know!!
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Wales Report:
6/10 could do better!
Rugby is played with the ball - we did not see much of it!
Positives:
Tom shanklin - excellent
Lee Byrne - Excellent
Alex Popham - Excellent
Mike Phillips - Excellent
I do agree with the comment that the team Gareth Jenkins inherited was a good team and did not need fixing, why have Wales lost the ability to move quick ball and offload in the tackle.
I would advise GJ to try Phillips at No 9 and Hook @ No 10 Vs Italy, I think wales looked a better side with Phillips and I still think that Jones is mis-firing at N0 10. IF we has kicked our penalties wales may even have possibly won!
The scrum was pushed all over the park so I do not understand where GJ gets his view that wales were "Physical yestereday"- Where was Ryan Jones? where are our ball carriers? If you do not get over the gain line what hope have the backs?
The angles of running of the backs are still far to flat, when we did have the ball yesterday we spent most of the time passing it laterally across the park and back again.
Must do better against Itlay if Wales hope to defeat a poor England side on 17th March
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Bring Back Mike Ruddick.
Has the new coach got a vendeta with Gavin Henson. he should be recalled for his rugby playing, and not rejected for his photos.
Coach you are begining to sound like the ENGLISH football person with David Beckham.
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first of all which ever muppet who says the whole of wales want to see Hook at 10 is wrong. every match so far this six nations he has played worse and at best equal to stephen jones who hasnt been exactly on fire. Hook missed god knows how many tackles and Jones scrambled in and cleared up the mess. Hook is defiantely a talent for the future but is not ready for the fly half position.
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gough + popham the best welsh players in defence, and popham in attack, both were subbed. world class coaching? johnathan thomas is brought on in every game and does nothing. phillips @ 9, hook @ 10. we lack direction in attack, gar jenks talks about lack of possession almost every turnover ball won was kicked away aimelessly.
stephen jones should never be captain neither should he be in the team. maybe give henson a chance at 12 at least we'll have a reliable kicker under pressure. gareth jenkins isnt ready for international rugby never won anything with the scarlets what hope do wales have.
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LETS BE HONEST GETTING RID OF RUDDOCK BY
PICKERING /ALFIE ETC HAS REALLY COME BACK TO BITE THEM.
WALES HAVE NO CHANCE OF GETTING TO THE
WORLD CUP SEMIS WITH A COACHING PANEL OF
NIGEL DAVIES AND MCBRIDE, NEW ZEALAND PICK COACHES WITH INTERNATIONAL COACHING EXPERIENCE, WE PICK PEOPLE WITH NONE!!!
GARETH JENKINS WILL BE LOOKING FOR A JOB AT THE END OF THE YEAR.HE HAS SURROUNDED HIMSELF BY HIS ACCOLITES AND THE RESULT IS A 80% LOSS RATIO.SOON PEOPLE WILL STOP PAYING £50 FOR TICKETS AND SPONSORS WILL PACK UP AND LEAVE IF THIS GOES ON MUCH LONGER.
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Why are the welsh forwards and backs so flat when attacking the opposition? It severely limits our attacking capabilities and makes it easy for the opposition to defend against. This is surely a basic skill at international level and will improve our ability to get over the gain line.
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Facts we scored 3 clear cut tries, France scored 1 clear cut try we missed the tackles, and 1 try with scrambled forward power, plus France kicked the penalties. How did we score one of the tries .Chip over the top and the centers running through as I said yesterday.
The rugby was getting stale at times with rush and drift defense, it is not a game it is a lottery of finding a gap. Wales need to try the chip kick from the scrum half ,with the centers rushing forward and need to cover the centers with forwards .Unless the hooker can throw to the back of the line don’t bother, we were losing line outs, and the jumpers revolving in the line out is too complicated , always take Popham out of the line out and put him just behind the center in attack do you really need 7 in the line out every time, think out side the box ,learn to throw to the outside half from the top of the line out etc etc etc. You may think I am Mad , and if you do then we may as well play rugby league, or the (super 14 no touching chaps the other side is getting the ball out of the ruck game) start thinking 3 dimensional .Has it become illegal to drive over the ruck ? It was a very exiting game at times, the reff was good , and Wales played much better , the foundations have always been there, so tweak not dismantle, innovate not reinvent .
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"first of all which ever muppet who says the whole of wales want to see Hook at 10 is wrong. every match so far this six nations he has played worse and at best equal to stephen jones who hasnt been exactly on fire."
Your the muppet for making that comment , he is playing worse and worse because he is in the wrong position. All I will say is Wales V Australia.
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Can't believe anylone is taking positives out of that performance.
Pophams try was well worked and Shanklins was a bit lucky.
Apart from that couple of minutes Wales were completely directionless. Losing their own ball, collapsing scrums, forwards strung out across the field, no one carrying the ball to the advantage line, wide too often, aimless kicking.
France are a better side than Scotland but I don't think it was much of an improvement.
15 good players but no game plan.
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Andrew ya stupid freak ... WALES ARE good at rugby and i think that if you dont like the team or think that they are bad at rugby then go live sumwher else because im behind th boyz 100% and anyone else who thinks like Andrew then they can do the same..
the try that France had when they were all up by th line was really hard for wales because the french men are FAT n wales know how to controll their weight so i think that JAMES HOOK did really well in trying to fight back at the BIG man that tried so COME ON bOYS EVERYONE IS BEHIND YOU!!! (accept Andrew) =] x.X.x
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WELLDONE! to ben hoo has wrote up the top there and its nice to see sum SUPPORT for the boiz COME ON WALES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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There needs to be a change in the Welsh management and the Welsh squad.
Firstly, one or two (not Neil Jenkins) backroom staff need to be sacked, particularly Nigel Davies, the attacking coach. Wales did not score any tries during the first two games. The attacking line are far too static/flat to gain any momentum on the ball or even to attack from depth which Wales always seemed to master with Scott Johnson the main instigator. Also… it is preferable to have the players concentrate more on the rugby training for better cohesion rather than the majority of the time in the gym. The same players with one or two exceptions won the grand slam 2005 with Scott Johnson. From that, you can only deduce that Nigel Davies has too bigger boots to fill. My suspicions are reserved mainly for Nigel Davies (possibly Rowland Philips) that he’s encouraging Dwayne Peel to do box kicks in his own 22 with no chasers, kicking the ball far too long for potential chasers to put some real pressure on the opposition, inviting quality opposition full backs, with the likes of Poitrenaud to catch and counter in the Welsh half (if your going to adopt this tactic, do it in the opposition half and have chasers). The French are perfect examples of chasing up n unders
Secondly, there is a need to have competition for places, the obvious competitive edge that we had, is a thriving atmosphere for success. This was the case with reference to Colin Charvis’s Injury. Martyn Williams was playing second fiddle to the ‘man mountain’ that is Colin and Martyn successfully played his socks off, not only in helping Wales to a Grand Slam but also getting the man of the tournament. Gareth Jenkins (who should not be sacked), has suggested that players should not think that their positions are guaranteed if it is contrary to their poor performance or if he thinks it difficult to justify it to himself, regarding their performance. He’s not really implementing this as he has his favourites. No one has ever built a statue for a critic (because they don’t achieve anything) so here are my suggestions:
Stephen Jones/ James Hook competing for No 10 exclusively ( there are calls for Ceri Sweeney to be in the mix).
Bring back the likes of Michael Owen and maybe adapt his skills to the Second Row (he wouldn’t be my choice for no.8 but has a huge talent) so that his presence would up the performance of Brent Cockbain and Alun Wyn-Jones.
Get rid of Mathew Rees and RhÅ·s Thomas for the reason that they are rubbish, for Mevyn Davies and Dwayne Goodfield to help each other and fight out for the position of Hooker.
Bring back Colin Charvis to encourage Martyn Williams’s potential
Play Ryan Jones at no.6 and Alix Popham at no.8
Play Mathew Watkins and mould him for the inside position --- and make Gavin Henson compete for this position.
Lastly, strip the captaincy from Stephen Jones for the simple fact that it’s too much pressure on his shoulders. You rely on him to get territorial advantage and then he’s got the unwanted pressure of performing brilliantly as a Captain should. Spread the pressure and make a leader out of someone else so you have two leaders…. Spread the pressure so you have balance in the team….
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I agree that Alix popham put in an impressive performance yesterday. i still feel colin charvis needs to be in the squad because he is an expert in scavanging the ball and thats exactly what wales needed against the french. If he had been brought on in the second half for popham or Ryan Jones I feel the result may have been different...
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Mike pillips takes 2or3 steps then passes the ball by which time the opposition is ontop of the poor bloke receiving. He must either pass immediately or break ,appart from that hes a v. good player
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Mike pillips takes 2or3 steps then passes the ball by which time the opposition is ontop of the poor bloke receiving. He must either pass immediately or break ,apart from that hes a v. good player
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I believe that we Welsh are just not good enough, Having said that the Welsh players do not go onto the field with the inention of playng badly. They do their best but it is just not good enough. As for the coaching staff, unfortunatley they simply do not have the rquired experience or ability and probabley never will. Never mind it gives us as supporters (and it would seem some of the Welsh players)to overindulge ouselved from time to time. We'll soon forget the French game and looh forward to over indulging in two weeks time.
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There needs to be a change in the Welsh management and the Welsh squad.
Firstly, one or two (not Neil Jenkins) backroom staff need to be sacked, particularly Nigel Davies, the attacking coach. Wales did not score any tries during the first two games. The attacking line are far too static/flat to gain any momentum on the ball or even to attack from depth which Wales always seemed to master with Scott Johnson the main instigator. Also… it is preferable to have the players concentrate more on the rugby training for better cohesion rather than the majority of the time in the gym. The same players with one or two exceptions won the grand slam 2005 with Scott Johnson. From that, you can only deduce that Nigel Davies has too bigger boots to fill. My suspicions are reserved mainly for Nigel Davies (possibly Rowland Philips) that he’s encouraging Dwayne Peel to do box kicks in his own 22 with no chasers, kicking the ball far too long for potential chasers to put some real pressure on the opposition, inviting quality opposition full backs, with the likes of Poitrenaud to catch and counter in the Welsh half (if your going to adopt this tactic, do it in the opposition half and have chasers). The French are perfect examples of chasing up n unders
Secondly, there is a need to have competition for places, the obvious competitive edge that we had, is a thriving atmosphere for success. This was the case with reference to Colin Charvis’s Injury. Martyn Williams was playing second fiddle to the ‘man mountain’ that is Colin and Martyn successfully played his socks off, not only in helping Wales to a Grand Slam but also getting the man of the tournament. Gareth Jenkins (who should not be sacked), has suggested that players should not think that their positions are guaranteed if it is contrary to their poor performance or if he thinks it difficult to justify it to himself, regarding their performance. He’s not really implementing this as he has his favourites. No one has ever built a statue for a critic (because they don’t achieve anything) so here are my suggestions:
Stephen Jones/ James Hook competing for No 10 exclusively ( there are calls for Ceri Sweeney to be in the mix).
Bring back the likes of Michael Owen and maybe adapt his skills to the Second Row (he wouldn’t be my choice for no.8 but has a huge talent) so that his presence would up the performance of Brent Cockbain and Alun Wyn-Jones.
Get rid of Mathew Rees and RhÅ·s Thomas for the reason that they are rubbish, for Mevyn Davies and Dwayne Goodfield to help each other and fight out for the position of Hooker.
Bring back Colin Charvis to encourage Martyn Williams’s potential
Play Ryan Jones at no.6 and Alix Popham at no.8
Play Mathew Watkins and mould him for the inside position --- and make Gavin Henson compete for this position.
Lastly, strip the captaincy from Stephen Jones for the simple fact that it’s too much pressure on his shoulders. You rely on him to get territorial advantage and then he’s got the unwanted pressure of performing brilliantly as a Captain should. Spread the pressure and make a leader out of someone else so you have two leaders…. Spread the pressure so you have balance in the team….
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I believe that we Welsh are just not good enough, Having said that the Welsh players do not go onto the field with the inention of playng badly. They do their best but it is just not good enough. As for the coaching staff, unfortunatley they simply do not have the rquired experience or ability and probabley never will. Never mind it gives us as supporters an opportunity (and it would seem some of the Welsh players)to overindulge ouselved from time to time. We'll soon forget the French game and look forward to overindulging in two weeks time.
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I think a main problem was the ammount of silly, needless penalties which the forwards gave away, especially at the line out, i'm sure there were at least 5 penalties for taking the line out jumper out! That's just a lack of discipline and cost us valuable points and field position in the end!
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The backs are playing flat because that’s what graham Hendry wanted but when we have rush defense we should vary the game more. We should get behind this team, and support the coach we are getting tribal again, that’s why some times I think it is better to get a coach from another country, but we have an excellent coach in Jenkins, and we have a good team of players, who just need to slow down a bit and play with more control and innovation and cut out the mistakes, they are only a pass or break away from winning a game they need our support not our whining.
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Gareth Jenkins said that he was happy with the performance but not the result. He must have only watched the first 10 mins.
The rest of that was very disappointing. What are the forwards doing ? Not a lot if we can only manage so little possession.
People talk about hookers, McBride was useless at throwing in , so how can we call him a forwards coach and expect the lineout to be anything less than a shambles !!
Nigel Davis has not got it, never had the playing ability either. Why do we keep on putting ex International players as coaches. Doesn't mean that you can coach if you play.
The other comment about players being sheltered from the media. I would make them walk down a busy street and let them be subject to any abuse that was given so that they understand what the public think. Lets be honest with ourselves - when they win and do well they want to read papers and get the acclaim - so let them also take the critisism
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Wales scored some tries this week, great, but for the next half an hour didn't have a clue. They could have put the game to bed in the first half an hour.
These are the same players who played so well two years ago. I'm all behind them, that's all I'll ever be, but only in Wales can you go from best to near worst (results wise - cos that's all it's about). The people in charge (at the top) are fools. Alan Phillips' gems of wisdom at half time - "the boys have just gotta tighten things up, like". Do you think?? Not with Horsman giving penalties away for fun we won't. I like Gareth Jenkins, but the whole thing has gone really badly wrong for now. Whatever happened with Ruddock will be a mystery, but it will go down as one of the greatest cock-ups in the history of the union, that is for sure. I'm going to Rome in two weeks, we'll probably play well, but at least I'll get to see the vatican as well.
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Some of the tackles by Gough and Popham were out of this world. A plessure to watch with a pint. Ok we didnt win, but the french are a better side. However, if we tackle like that in the world cup we will have teams worried!!!
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people who r complainin about the coaches r right. wen ruddock left i believed phil davies was the right man for the job n i still believe he is the right choice. backroom staff currently, neil jenkins obviously will remain as he is the best kicker ever. robin mcbryde as a forwards coach, i never liked him as a player, mayb wales shud bring in garin jenkins and scott quinell to coach forwards. also attackin coach, i honestly believe that the best man for the job other than scott johnson who will not come back is jonathon davies. who agrees with ne of this n who thinks im talkin rubbish. plz ur views
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How can Byrne earn a high mark? He needlessly kicked away far too much precious possession! They're bringing the wrong Jones on as a replacement - moving a natural loose head (GJ) over to the tight just isn't working - and look at the props Italy have!
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Byrne kicks far too much precious possession away - and the management is bringing the wrong prop on - we need another genuine tight head!
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We Welsh are the best rugby supporters in the world - we need to support our team and not criticiise the team needlessly. The press in particular have a lot of responsibility in this respect- mouthing off destructively.
I thought again that there were some great individual performances from our boys yesterday and in the end we scored some good tries. The problem we had yesterday and in every game - was lack of possession. No side in the world wins rugby games with 40 % possession - not even the ABs. I am suprised and disapointed by the criticsm of the backs as they had no ball to play with. The problem is the front row and line out. If we sort that out then winning is on the cards.
The line out should be easy to resolve shorten the line out, pick specialist jumpers etc. The front row is a lot more difficult to resolve.
If we get 50% of the possession in Rome we will win comfortably - but this is easier said than done!
By the way Gareth Jenkins is a good coach and honest man that deserves our respect and support.
Roll on the Rome game! COME ON WALES!
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I have to admit I am concerned with some of the selections Gareth Jenkins has made, not Henson, to be frank he doesn't deserve to be in the starting lineup right now, though I'd have him on the bench because he has the ability to change a game. That's the thing that concerns me the most, I don't feel any of our subs have the ability to make an impact except for Mike Phillips who if Jenkins was consistent with his horses for courses statement, should have started against France. When he came on the French backrow immediately keyed on him because of last year. The end result? Stephen Jones finally found himself one on one against the defence and slipped Jamie Robinson in under the posts. I think Peel is great but Phillips should've started on Saturday.
Similarly we have a squad with several leaders available, Duncan Jones, Ian Gough, Martyn Williams, Peel, Stephen Jones and Gareth Thomas. I really think Gareth Jenkins missed a trick insisting on Jones being his captain. The long and short of it is that he should be picking the best 15 and selecting a captain from it. Fine to have Jones as a squad captain but sometimes I'm in no doubt Hook would be the better man at 10. Not against France though, I'd still have had Jones in against France. Against Scotland? I'd have been tempted to play Hook, I think he'd have kept the rampaging Scots backrow a bit more honest and would've been more able to pin them back with his kicking game.
My biggest concern though is a bench full of players who I think are all good players but not ones I'd want to use as an impact type. For me the bench should have guys like Colin Charvis and Henson.
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Just a note to Julie who posted the attack on GJ. Just where on earth did you get your coaching qualification? GJ is, without doubt, the best we have. Even with little posession, we still managed to score 3 tries (and that against a team that must be the Northern Hemisphere's only hope of winning the World Cup). Don't you think that we are just being outmuscled up front at the moment. This is, afterall, a young side.
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Wales' biggest problem is discipline. The number of penalties given away is too high. The difference in the scores was due to the fact that Skrela kicked his penalties and Wales missed. However, a perfect example of giving it back to the opposition was late in the first half. We were defending but Shane Williams kicked a beauty from a narrow angle to take the play a few metres from the French line. What did we do ? Contest the line-out legally ? No. Alun Wyn Jones was all over the French jumper and he didn't even do it in a subtle way. Penalty to France and play is back on the half-way line with France in possession. It's criminal to give those stupid penalties away. Gareth Jenkins must coach that aspect out of the team.
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So Dick Best was right after all. I seem to remember the irksome ex-Lions coach being pilloried in the Welsh press for daring to say (ahead of the Lions' NZ tour), albeit in the typically arrogant, superior way that only the English can quite achieve, that our Grand Slam was built on sand. Watching our forwards (or, if you live in Australia like me, reading the match reports about them) would suggest he was, unfortunately, spot on. The GS05 now looks like a shooting star amidst a black, empty universe. Having said that, I believe there's a better side in there somewhere than Gareth Jenkins has managed to extract. Let's hope for his and all our sakes that we pull off the old Clive Rowlands mantra of at least beating England! After their thrashing by Ireland there must be hope! In fact, I know we have a lot more talent than their current side, my persisting worry though is can Jenkins pinpoint and harness it to get the 'Big W' Welsh rugby (and he) desparately needs - if not, the sands of time might just run out for GJ.
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DON'T DROP JONES!!! Please, he has been,, day in, day out, our best outside half for several years. He needs to start. I also think that Hook might have also missed a slightly crucial penalty on Saturday night!
Gareth Jenkins cannot be a fool of a coach, because he worked fantastically well with the Scarlets and gave us good results (with them).
FINAl VERDICT:
Jones for 50 mins, then bring on hook. And, if your Welsh, support your side. Your ranting isn't going to change anything, and if it does, it'll be for the worse. I read an article in the western mail that Ian Gough had been abused by welsh supporters while shopping! So my final words are shut up! and leave the poor men alone!
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Much better performance however the constant pointless kicking from Byrne left me fuming.
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I think most of your rating are fair. I thought Gethin Jenkins perhaps deserved a higher mark along with Matthew Rees.
Jones has to start at 10 with Peel at 9. They are our best halfbacks. I have to ask the question when the midfield is not firing fully (althought having Shanklin back was better) why Henson can not at least make the bench. I rate Hook and think he will be a great player but he is still young. Give Henson the shirt against Italy and lets see what he can do.
Changes for Italy.
A Jones for Horsman
B Cockbain for A W Jones
G Henson for J Hook
G Thomas for L Byrne.
No offence to Lee Byrne who has a good game but we need the Experience and leadership of Thomas back for the Italy game.
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With refernce to Julie's harsh comments about Gareth Jenkins, i have to strongly disagree. Jenks has done his best with the selection of players he has had, and we are all far too quick in Wales to point the finger - especially were it shouldnt be pointed. The selection has been fine apart from a few in the Scotland game, but it's the players that have not performed on the day. As a coaching staff there is only so much you can do - when all the training and preparation is done and dusted - Gareth Jenkins and staff ultimately have no control over the teams destiny that day. Gareth Jenkins does not lace up a pair of boots and take to the field any longer, which is why we can't turn to him and throw all our criticisms. It annoys me when they compare Jenkins to Ruddock, when ok, Ruddock did a good job, but the foundations of our team had been layed by the Henry and Hansen era, and i'm not belittling Ruddock's achievements in the slightest, but we managed to have a balanced combination of playing well, and having the rub of the green. Had it not been for Henson's kick, or Shanklin's tries - we might not have won the Grand Slam. Even if an ankle tap attempt had been one inch closer - these are the aspects that determine a game, and the way that tournaments unfold. Which comes back to the centrepoint of my argument - that a coach and his staff can only do so much - so before we criticise we should look more closely at the whole pie.
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Whilst I dont think you can fault the effort put in by the players, Wales were comfortably second best again, and it is now difficult to see where a win will come from this championship. The basics must be done well before anything else can be added, a side that can barely scrummage and whose lineout is little short of disastrous for long periods will win nothing. I think that Wales would now be best served by using the rest of the championship to try out new combinations and actually develop a style of play everyone understands and is comfortable with. Wales are now, at best, a second division rugby nation, and the majority of their supporters seem to understand little about the game, and simply jingoistically bad mouth anyone who dares criticise the team or the coach,all desperately sad.
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We need a bit more 'bash' up the middle from our bigger ball carriers (Ryan Jones in particular). We need to stop kicking away valuable possession, and belive in our ability to retain the ball through the phases (the bash up the middle will help with this). If it is kicked, Byrne's 50yards in the air and 15-20 yards forwards up-and-unders aren't the solution, nor is kicking it down the throat of the oppositions back 3. And just shipping it on down the line such that we end up with a ruck with 4 of the back line in it, isn't the solution either!
Good points - 3 excellent tries, and when we played as we did 2 years ago, we looked good. The defence was awesome, apart from that one lapse for the Dominici try.
Next match, we have to be strong in the pack, at set piece in particular, that's obvious. And if we play sensible rugby, by drawing in the Italian backs into a ruck (without dragging in our backs), then we can cut them to ribbons. Italy will play 9-10 man rugby (their strength), so lets hope we don't do the same, or we'll lose.
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oh - and I do so agree with David Jones. We REALLY need to sort out our discipline at the breakdown and the lineout. Way too many penaties are killing us (7 three-pointers for Scotland, 6 for France tells its own tale - as well as relieving pressure for the opposition when in promising attacking field positions, such that we don't get enough kicks at goal ourselves).
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Unlucky Wales. If most are honest with themselves then they didn't really expect Wales to beat France. I thought it was a better performance from Wales & hopefully they will beat Italy.
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Italy Vs Wales will be won and lost at the set-piece.
the Italian forwards crunched Scotland in the maul and the lineout and eventually the Scottish scrum went backwards!
Meanwhile the biggest reason wales have failed to play is failing to secure their own ball at the lineout.
Time and time again wales coughed up the ball - the french marched down the field and get the enevitable penalty.
mirrored in almost every game previous to saturday,Wales keep makeing the same mistakes, and until this is resolved - Italy will surely win!
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Agree, the performance was miles better than Scotland but there are a few things that still need to be addressed. The front row needs to be looked at, as they didn't seem fit enough to cope with the French. Also, I'm afraid to say again but Stephen Jones has to be dropped - he's too slow and not threatening enough as a player. On a positive note - Alix Popham and Tom Shanklin should take a bow as they were immense in both defence and attack. They were pretty much the only players to break the gainline consistently. Well done to Jamie Robinson and Ian Gough aswell for sterling performances.
The Scotland/Italy game just showed that Italy can no longer be classed as the foregone conclusion - it will be a hard game for Wales over in Rome but here's hoping that the front row can front up and that Jones (if he manages to scrape into the side) can pose most of a threat.
Well done to Ireland and Italy for great games and performances!
Cymru Am Byth
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I think Ryan Jones lack of form is a real problem. What about playing Charvis, M Williams on the flanks with Popham at 8 (which is after all his natural position).
Front row a problem again. The lesson is that we can't rely on Gethin Jenkins to cover tight head. Adam Jones shouldnt be discarded from at leastthe bench just because of the Scotland debacle because over his career he's always battled hard for Wales in that position. I've never thought Rees was a good thrower. I think he and Thomas are just going to end up alternating because there is very little between them. Good in the loose wobbly throwers.
v
Second row. Why is the welsh line out always under such pressure. You never the same degree of movement before the throw from any of the other sides?. If they are struggling they need to keep it simple and throw to the front and occasionally ary it by using the height they have at the back of the lineout. Jenkins never seemed to sort out the lineout at Llanelli.
Half backs. It was good to see Peel kicking a bit more which was never his strength and taking a bit of pressure of S Jones. Although he missed one Hook is a better kicker than S Jones and should be give nthe kicking duties also might take away a bit of pressure from S Jones.
Alfie back at full back?. Certainly he'll feature at some stage against the italians though Byrne did nothing wrong against the french.
As a few people have said Wales do play too flat and this is not helped by S Jones lack of speed, however Hook's inexperience in the centre is also exposed. You can't just play a 10 in the centre. Totally different angle of attack. Would like to see Hook at 10.
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As an Englishman living in Paris, I had the priviledge to be at the Stade de France on Saturday for what was an superb game of Rugby played in probably the best atmosphere we have had at the Stade for ages. My humble opinion is that no soul searching is necessary from the Welsh side, nor calls for the Coach's head. Wales were immense in defense and always looked dangerous on the attack, if at times they lacked the finishing pass. The French simply recovered well from being put on the back foot to control the game and showed a lot of class in their win, in spite of a lacklustre performance from David Skrela. France are serious contenders for a final place in the World Cup, for Wales to have rattled them so badly is credit to the Welsh players and coaching staff
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Does anyone else agree with me that Ryan Jones is vastly overated. Is still being picked on ONE good game he had for the Lions nearly 2 years ago. Popham to No 8 with Charvis in on the blindside. Ireland have shown that you need a blindside who will show ball down and win ball on the floor. That said im not 100% sure Gareth Jenkins will see that !!!
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scott morgan should be in there with popham, theyre both agressive, powerful brutes.
hook at 10, get henson in, alfi at 15, and phillips at 9, awesome.
jenkins is making bad decision with jones and should be rotating teams more in the buildup to wrld cup. i want to see scott morgan and phillips playing full games
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As much as I've admired Stephen Jones I think that the best thing against Italy is move Hook to 10 and if Henson is fit put him in Hooks position. Henson may be a bit of an orange fool at times (Gav, perma-tan is NOT a cool thing), but he's bigger than Hook and able to make strong challenges. Only think that is a problem now tho is Henson probably isn't match fit!
C'mon Jenkins Hook is 10 and you knows it.
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These comments are directed at R.Turner (no 56). I would put it to him that he's no more than a wind up merchant (a childish wind up merchant at best) and that he is abusing this blog for his egotistical worthless comments, mistakingly thinking that its his 'given right' with underlying currents of welsh put-downs(racism for its proper name). Rash statements such as 'Wales are now, at best, a second division rugby nation, and the majority of their supporters seem to understand little about the game' build a picture of R.Turner and that he's covering up his inadequacies. The fact of the matter is that the scoreline flattered France and that if Stephen and Hook got their points Wales would have been awfully close to France's score at full time ... without playing to their best. Much better performance from that of the murrayfield game... Cymru am byth
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These comments are directed at R.Turner (no 56). I would put it to him that he's no more than a wind up merchant (a childish wind up merchant at best) and that he is abusing this blog for his egotistical worthless comments, mistakingly thinking that its his 'given right' with underlying currents of welsh put-downs(racism for its proper name). Rash statements such as 'Wales are now, at best, a second division rugby nation, and the majority of their supporters seem to understand little about the game' build a picture of R.Turner and that he's covering up his inadequacies. The fact of the matter is that the scoreline flattered France and that if Stephen and Hook got their points Wales would have been awfully close to France's score at full time ... without playing to their best. Much better performance from that of the murrayfield game... Cymru am byth
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These comments are directed at R.Turner (no 56). I would put it to him that he's no more than a wind up merchant (a childish wind up merchant at best) and that he is abusing this blog for his egotistical worthless comments, mistakingly thinking that its his 'given right' with underlying currents of welsh put-downs(racism for its proper name). Rash statements such as 'Wales are now, at best, a second division rugby nation, and the majority of their supporters seem to understand little about the game' build a picture of R.Turner and that he's covering up his inadequacies. The fact of the matter is that the scoreline flattered France and that if Stephen and Hook got their points Wales would have been awfully close to France's score at full time ... without playing to their best. Much better performance from that of the murrayfield game... Cymru am byth
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These comments are directed at R.Turner (no 56). I would put it to him that he's no more than a wind up merchant (a childish wind up merchant at best) and that he is abusing this blog for his egotistical worthless comments, mistakingly thinking that its his 'given right' with underlying currents of welsh put-downs(racism for its proper name). Rash statements such as 'Wales are now, at best, a second division rugby nation, and the majority of their supporters seem to understand little about the game' build a picture of R.Turner and that he's covering up his inadequacies. The fact of the matter is that the scoreline flattered France and that if Stephen and Hook got their points Wales would have been awfully close to France's score at full time ... without playing to their best. Much better performance from that of the murrayfield game... Cymru am byth
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These comments are directed at R.Turner (no 56). I would put it to him that he's no more than a wind up merchant (a childish wind up merchant at best) and that he is abusing this blog for his egotistical worthless comments, mistakingly thinking that its his 'given right' with underlying currents of welsh put-downs(racism for its proper name). Rash statements such as 'Wales are now, at best, a second division rugby nation, and the majority of their supporters seem to understand little about the game' build a picture of R.Turner and that he's covering up his inadequacies. The fact of the matter is that the scoreline flattered France and that if Stephen and Hook got their points Wales would have been awfully close to France's score at full time ... without playing to their best. Much better performance from that of the murrayfield game... Cymru am byth
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Actually Rhys I am Welsh, but in spite of that I am still able to see how weak Welsh rugby is at the present time.The scoreline if anything flattered Wales,just look at how one sided the stats were in terms of territory and possession in favour of France.You illustrate perfectly the point I was making concerning Welsh supporters however, unable to watch the game in any balanced constructive fashion simply because Wales were involved in it. Also it is never a case of simply saying if Wales had kicked their pens it would have been much closer,had they done so there is a good chance once the game was restarted it would have moved to the other end of the field and perhaps France would have scored again.Wales took their chances well but were unable to trouble France as they did not control the ball well enough, and the last score was simply a consolation the game being well out of sight by then. Personally I now believe Italy have a genuine chance of beating Wales in Rome,can you imagine a new zealander saying the same?So yes Wales are at best in the second tier of world rugby.(ps you only need to post your message once).
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Ps Rhys can you tell me how what I said was racist?Do you actually know what racism is?People do have the freedom in this country(at least for the time being)to be critical.Perhaps you could try being a little more impartial and stop looking for that which isn't actually there.
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I dont think many people who watched the game would argue that Wales played better against France than against Scotland. Defensively we have been brutal in both games showing a physicality which is often lacking in our play. Unfortunatley while it is great to see this improvement to our game, it seems to have come at the expence of some spontaniety. We have always been at our best when the attack is made up on the fly, with players instictlvely doing what only a precious few teams in world rugby are capable of. Attacks like that are devastating purely because they lack structure, which makes them all but impossible to defend against.
My biggest cause for concern over the current handling of the Welsh squad is as has been metioned by many - POSITIONAL SELECTION, especially for the bench. We are playing far too many players out of position which will NEVER be a succesful tactic on the international stage. GJ has his reasons for selecting certain players, some of which baffle me. Hook, as has been repeatedly mentioned on many forums, is a No10, not an No.12. He should be sub for Stephen Jones if SJ is having a bad day at the office. If GJ believes Jamie Robinson is good enough to play international rugby, and he hasn't done too much wrong despite being played mainly at No.13 (OUT OF POSITION) then he should start at 12. If Hook is on bench Sweeney is not needed in squad (sorry but one or the other). We need bench cover for the back 3, or we end up unbalanced all over the back line. Against Scotland at one point we had Czekaj at 15, Shanks on Wing, Robinson at 13 and Sweeney at 12 ALL OUT OF POSITION. Against France, we looked balanced when Hook came off, with an entire back line playing where they naturaly play, until Mark Jones came off, lack of cover for the back 3 meant Shanks going on the wing again. Front Row, Gethin Jenkins visibly struggles when he is switched to the wrong side after Horsemans inevitable substitution, so why do it, if Horseman can't last a match then a direct sub should be available, instead of switching Jenkins who seems perfectly able to last a full 80+mins. Ryan Jones was unusually absent all game against France (usually puts in a brutal 20 min spell) so maybe we need a back row of specialist (real no6 and no8 Charvis or Thomas and Popham OR Jones) Those who argue against Charvis on age poo poo to you, if he is the best available he should play.
Anyway thats my £50 worth, I'll cheer Wales regardless, no-one else can play the game like we can (even when it doesn't work), my advice to the coaches, watch the France & Scotland matches several times - WE LOOK AT OUR BEST WHEN ALL PLAYERS PLAY IN THEIR NATURAL POSITIONS AND AT OUR WORST WHEN THEY PLAY IN POSITIONS WHERE THEY DO NOT PLAY WEEK IN WEEK OUT. NO-ONE WOULD PLAY A PROP ON THE WING, WELL THAT APPLIES TO EVERY POSITION ON THE PITCH.
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Waes played amazingly today....
Welldone to james hook very good play
and to all the team you all played amazing
!!!..WE BEAT ENGLAND WOHO..!!!
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