Has Alfie scuppered his swansong?
- 29 Jan 07, 08:02 AM
Cardiff - Usually in the run up to international matches in Wales, there's frantic speculation about who will play and in what position.
Since my previous blog post, injuries have taken an untimely toll, but not even they, not even the spiky-haired wonder, have dominated conversation.
Alfie has.
The Jekyll and Hyde of Welsh rugby.
or ?
A great bloke to talk to and someone who demands the respect of the players around him - of those two facts there is no doubt.
But , whatever the alleged provocation, could see rugby's authorities give him a more considered instruction to "go forth and multiply".
Unfortunately for Thomas, he had planned this Six Nations as a swansong on his own terms. But rugby is trying to crack down on foul play and indiscipline and it's hard to see how Gareth Thomas can possibly escape a ban when he attends the disciplinary hearing on Thursday.
And great bloke though he is, rugby needs to set a precedent for the previously unprecedented.
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Alfie is his own worse enemy. Aggression is fine, if not essential, on the rugby field - but to fans in the stand? I don't think that is justifiable, even though Trevor Brennan appears more culpable than Alfie.
In my opinion Alfie has shot his bolt at international level anyway. Kev Morgan is the better full back, Ickle and HLF on the wings have more pace, and Alfie at 12 or 13 is too much bosh for me. At best he's good cover on the bench. If Ickle and HLF are available for Sunday, than Alfie shouldn't be in the first 15. Henson to start at 12, Hookie on the bench Robinson J at 13 now that Shanks is out.
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I think rugby pundits have too many opinions most of which are not based in fact.
There is a substantial difference between going into the stands and punching someone in the face several times ( trevor brennan) and making a gesture to someone ( Alfie).
There is such a lot of pompous nonsense talked about the Welsh players that sometimes I wonder why they bother. Alfie has been a fine player for Wales and if he gets a ban it will be a travesty of justice.
After all if Sean Connor escaped sanction for stamping on someone's knee and Chabal can get away with stamping on Tandy's back then it would be strange justice for Alfie to get a ban for this.
I am tired of the hot air of superiority coming from the scrum v team. If it is not Alfie it is Gavin.
No one else gets their mistakes over analysed like this. I felt so sorry for the amount of stick they take from the scrum v team like you could do any better.
Maybe Alfie had good reason to lose his temper after all you don't know what happened do you? Maybe Gavin has good reason to play like a man under too much pressure and being moved from pillar to post every game only to have idiots scrutinize his every move and slate him for doing what his team mates are doing without comment in the press.
I wonder how you would all look if we subjected rugby journalists and pundits to the same scrutiny that we subject the players too. How many of you manage to get through a programme without making a mistake or doing something stupid?
I think we know the answer don't we?
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Alfie has always commanded respect from his team mates who look up to him - no matter what team he plays for.
The reason he has often got in trouble in the past is because he puts his team mates first (Pushing Grewcock in 2005 after he kicked Peel in the head - which got Alfie a yellow card at a vital stage of the match). I don't think Alfie thought about wading in to help Brennan - he just did it as he always has done in the past trying to look after team mates. It's unfortunate (and in this case, wrong!) - but that's Alfie and why he has been such a good leader.
I have to agree though that it's very difficult to find a place in the starting line-up for him (K Morgan, M Jones & S Williams - are all looking in better shape and form) but Alfie is by far away the biggest leader in the Welsh squad and I think Wales really need his leadership qualities and ability to galvanize the team.
You only have to look at the problems England have had (and still got) because they're are so few leaders in their team.
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I agree with the comments of Clive Davies. As a rugby supporter in Wales, i feel that the actions of Alfie have shamed Welsh Rugby, his announcement to retire from International Rugby, together with the wish to play for his country at the next World Cup is a plea to the more lenient side of the ERC, to not go heavy on him when it comes to the verdict on the horrendous behaviour of Alfie and Brennan in Toulouse. A professional sportsman should know better, his actions were Cantona-esque, and he has brought the game of Rugby Football into disrepute. I would hope that the ERC will have the guts to make examples of these players, as nothing like this has been seen before in the game and should never be again, and the ERC should see to it. Threatening behaviour (Alfie) and assault (Brennan)can get you locked up if it happens on the high street. Why should behaviour like this be allowed in sport and the players protected. Alfie should bow out now, before he causes Wales, Rugby Football and himself any further embarrassment.
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I am a great admirer of Alfie. He's proven alot of doubters wrong - myself included - with his development as a player and captain over the years. I was very sceptical of his talents when he came on to the scene as a centre/winger all those years ago. His contribution to Welsh rugby comes from his big heart, enthusiasm and never say die attitude. His international record speaks for itself and I firmly believe he still has an important part to play in Wales fortunes in 2007.
I was disappointed in his behaviour in Toulouse. Despite undoubted provocation a professional player should remain exactly that, professional. I regularly attend Leinster & Ireland matches, home and away, as well as my own junior club's fixtures. I have noticed a worrying trend for fans to behave and chant a little more along the lines of what you would expect at soccer games. The matches in the Heineken / Magners have become so important the fans seem to have become more passionate and sometimes cross the line from good humour to bad taste or outright provocation. I'm happy to say I have not witnessed any behavour such as occured last weekend but I don't think it is too far away. I have no reason to doubt Trevor Brennan's version of events but it is still not an excuse to respond with violence or inappropriate gestures.
I dont have a magic solution to the problem but if fans start baiting opposition players or fans it is inevitable that the sport could slide towards hostility and low-brow chants and eventually separation of fans. This would ruin one of the great aspects of rugby - the mixing and camraderie of the opposing fans - as well as the mutual respect for all the players.
In relation to Alfie, thankfully, I don't think any potential sanction will be a significant factor in ending his international career.Even if he misses a game or two I still think he will contribute to Wales 6 nations effort. (After Ireland beat Wales I hope, of course).
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Was it caught on camera? I certainly havent seen it. Innocent until proven guilty I say.
Even if he did gesture at some fans, do you think they'll ever get over the trauma.
In the grand scheme of things just because he reacted to a few Irish fans he should not be banned when we play against Ireland on Sunday.
Also, I hope the guy has adequate legal representation. As we saw on last years Scrum V I dont think he handles conflict very well. Maybe Alister Campbel can get that barister who toured with trhe Lions in 2005.
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Excuse my ignorance but I presume that "ickle" and "HLF" are Shane Williams & Mark Jones?
I agree with the comment about Alfie, but it beggars belief that Henson is still being touted for a place in the team - at the expense of Hook, Robinson or even Dafydd James in the threequarters. He was mediocre and nonchalant (again) on Saturday for the Ospreys and came up with the (pathetic) excuse of a knee injury to explain his sheer slowness and lack of ability. James had another excellent game in a losing Scarlets team.
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clive clive clive.
kevin morgan an international fullback...?
A couple of things, that big button on the side of the TV is an on switch...on it, one can watch a game I like to call rugby. While watching said game, you may be unfortunate enough to witness MrMorgan. Slipping everywhere, shurking tackles, dropping the ball, cacking his pants when faced with opposition on his own and the creme de la morgan...the hack into opposition hands.
You're not the only one Clive...but if I was playing Sunday...I know Alfies got my back.
Good luck boys.
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Eoin Lyons has no reason to doubt Trevor Brennans version of events? Let me make a few suggestions as to why he should.
Brennan said that Ulster fans in the crowd were telling him to ignore the 'insults'. No-one amongst these reasonable people have appeared to back up his story.
The only 'insults' reported witnesses , including an English 成人快手 journalist and the editor in chief of the Belfast Telegraph,related to the alleged standard of the stout in Brennan's Bar. Not really stretching the term banter with that are we?
Brennan's uncle told RTE radio that Brennan had told him that he was responsible for 'sectarian' abuse. Brennan had in the meantime declared that nothing sectarian had been involved. Someone was lying, and it wasn't an Ulster fan. Why the need to lie?
Brennan stated that he was responding also to beer being thrown at him. Witnesses, including the two illustrious gentleman mentioned above, make it clear that the beer was thrown AFTER the assault on the fan, not before. Again, why the need to lie?
Now I wasn't there, and neither I presume was Mr Lyons, but I reckon there is enough evidence to suggest that Brennan's version of events is indeed open to question by any reasonable person.
As for Mr Thomas? He acted stupidly and was out of order. However over here (North of the irish border anyway)people are accepting that he was in his own prattish way, thinking he was helping a friend in trouble, having no idea of the innocuous nature of the comments which sparked Brennan off. Perhaps he should get the benefit of the doubt.
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Correction - I should have said viz a viz Brennan's uncle - he had claimed that Brennan was 'responding to', not 'responsible for' sectarian abuse.
Mr Lyons - I hope you will give the matter some deeper thought.
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A four week ban beggars belief.
Gareth Lewis I hope your proud of yourself. Its jumped up journalists spouting their mouth off to further their own aims who are partly responsible for this travesty of justice.
Call yourself a Welshman?!
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The only thing I would say is that I've tried to view this issue without my Welsh hat on (which is hard) and come to the conclusion that even though I would love to see Alfie on the pitch the way he reacted was unprofessional. As a role model and former Wales captain he should be setting a better example to not only young people but people in general (whether he likes being a role model is questionable also but if you play for Wales your stuck with it).
I would also add I DO understand and I can see why Alfie reacted like he did and wouldn't be surprised if I reacted in exactly the same way but if I did I would also expect my punishment to be severe and that I would just need to take it on the chin. I would hate rugby to go down the road of professional football and turn into some immoral monster with people calling for yellow cards and the like, and I strongly believe that rugby has a unique responsibility to uphold the sportsmanship values that are quickly disappearing within today's society.
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So Alyn you would have acted the same then? You would be as big a fool as Alfie, who had no idea why Brennan was in the Ulster end, was unaware of the innocuous comments which led to Brennan's thuggery, and who expressed complete remorse, to his credit, at the hearing. But go on my son, don't let that stop you proving how hard you are.
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So Steve, another classic example of people unable to derive the context of a message, I was obviously condoning Alfie's behaviour if you read the post correctly but at the same time trying to understand it. I'm sure at least once in all our lives we've reacted without thinking or mealy as a result of frustration and an outpouring of emotion. All I was trying to do was put into context that Alfie simply made a Hand gesture in frustration and acted angrily by trying to get in the crowd! I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say I don't think it would have been a violent exchange if indeed he entered the crowd. Couple of last point Steve if you don鈥檛 mind young man I for one have never been in a fight in my life and hate violence but it doesn't mean I think all people are thugs who react emotionally. Also assumption and rudeness is just as much an issue in today's society as violent behaviour, perhaps you could argue your point more politely in the future and set a better example your self.
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Let's look at what you said Alyn (we'll forget the more recent comment about 'condoning' the actions. It's clear you mean 'condemned').
You said you "DO understand" why Alfie reacted in the way he did. I'm sure we can all understand being stupid, thuggish and confused.And that you would not be surprised if you acted "in exactly the same way".
I think Alfie acted in a thuggish manner acting in a threatening way to a crowd which contained a fair number of women and children. He did it out of ignorance.If you were to act under the same circumstances I would accuse you of acting in the same manner.
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Let's look at what you said Alyn (we'll forget the more recent comment about 'condoning' the actions. It's clear you mean 'condemned').
You said you "DO understand" why Alfie reacted in the way he did. I'm sure we can all understand being stupid, thuggish and confused.And that you would not be surprised if you acted "in exactly the same way".
I think Alfie acted in a thuggish manner acting in a threatening way to a crowd which contained a fair number of women and children. He did it out of ignorance.If you were to act under the same circumstances I would accuse you of acting in the same manner.
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Johnpaul....
Kevin Morgan has ALWAYS put his body on the line for his team and has never run away from the physical side of the game hence all those injuries, cack his pants - don't talk such utter rot!!
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This discussion could go on until GT鈥檚 ban is lifted so I鈥檒l try and resolve some of the confusion by clarifying some of my views which I thought I鈥檇 made previously;
1. I agree and have from the start that Thomas should have been banned.
2. I don鈥檛 condone his response what so ever and as I mentioned in my original post he is an X Wales Captain and a role model so should know better.
3. The only point I was trying to put forward for the sake of balance was simply that he is a human being capable of mistakes as are we all, the level of criticism by some of the media and public 鈥淚 think鈥 goes too far and doesn鈥檛 even attempt to balance its view. As I mentioned previously I hate violence but understand in that particular case Thomas was wrong but I also understand how 鈥淪ome Humans鈥 can in the heat of the moment react angularly.
Look how my one comment where I tried to balance the discussion by saying I understand and would 鈥渙r might react exactly in the same way鈥 resulted in quite blunt and rude attack on my character! Reading that response bared no resemblance to how I have ever acted or perceived myself to be. Now I鈥檝e been tempted to react angrily to that but luckily I take so long to type I calme down! I can鈥檛 imagine the levels pressure and stress the modern rugby players has to tolerate (I only played at youth level and below) the personnel attacks in the press, constant deep analysis of every game or even move, the attacks by former team mates or x International who never had the type of analysis or media intrusion into private life to tolerate as the modern player has to take on the chin without the hint of disagreement. I鈥檓 going off on a tangent now I just hope the context of the post comes across as I INTEND and mean, had to re-sit my English lang. and lit at school so perhaps my context does not come across as intended.
I鈥檝e re-read my original post to try and see why it was taken out of context the way it was, I can see why you would think that 鈥渂ased on only one part of the post鈥 but when I read the whole post the context I feel quite clearly does not warrant the response it did.
Why we assume that men, the same as any other can cope with all this without making mistakes is beyond me, I鈥檝e never met a rugby player who knows the right end of a pen let alone one who can control every emission and feeling for a 15 year playing career.
He made a mistake.
He no doubt regrets it and agrees with the punishment and realises he deserve it.
He has been punished.
He will serve his ban.
End of story.
No need for complete strangers to attack him (Or any other rugby player) without attempting to balance the debate and at the very least to give him the benefit of the doubt. None of us know him as a person or have the right to personally criticise him based on what very little knowledge we have of him as a individual.
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Sorry Alyn, I was rude and blunt. I am afraid I am not gentleman material. However I was responding to the words you chose to use. I accept your comments are wider than that one sentence and that you would not act in the manner Alfie chose to do.
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Sorry Alyn, I was rude and blunt. I am afraid I am not gentleman material. However I was responding to the words you chose to use. I accept your comments are wider than that one sentence and that you would not act in the manner Alfie chose to do.
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