³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, Phil.

26 paragraphs on rain. I thought Adrian Chiles earned his money last night but this is an achievement of equal magnitude.

Forecast was rain (it was raining at 12.00 and was forecast to continue doing so). There is a roof. Shut the roof. Play the game. Simple.

Complete joke. Ineptitude of the highest order.

I feel for the fans who made the journey.

I felt very sorry for the referee, he had to consider the fans, TV and others and go through procedures before he called the game off. I had to have had a good idea the game could not be played, but he had to follow the process laid down. If he had called the game off earlier then some may have said he acted too quickly. The real rogues were the authorities who dallied around with the closing roof until it was too late to close it. They were in the background and out of the way, the poor referee was seen by all. The ground will have to drain well if they want to play later today otherwise it will be farce added to farce. Maybe the stadium should try investment in a weather forecaster.

There is no excuse for the stadium roof being left open whilst the rain ruined the playing surface.

Is knowing before the game that it will rain hindsight ?

Oops! I meant 'he had to have had' not 'I'. As for Adrian Chiles, an even bigger joke than the weather and stadium put together. He was always a bit of a joke, remember how he ratted on young Thatcher years ago? I would watch more footy on ITV but for him. Luckily he had a good panel opposite who were able to make up for his amateurish presentation skills.

Hmm, don't worry I'm sure FIFA will deal with this issue much more firmly than they will Serbia.

As a Polish fan I have to say people here are in red-hot anger at the authorities and feel shamed by such a show of incompetence. I personally think it should be a walkover for England - we screwed up, we should pay for it. And compensate the fans who traveled for the game as well. Some heads simply must fall because of this.

That's what is sick about Polish football. Those people who are supposed to "manage it"...You've seen how that played out. Good fans, some good players, wonderful history and potential for much more - and that's how it usually ends. The fancy stadium run by people you wouldn't trust to oversee a school football grounds...

The whole thing was a disgrace to modern football , we have seen other International events cope much better. What sort of a pitch will they have today, I wonder?

NB I thought ITV, Chiles and Co. did well by sharing their problems in keeping it going .

Let's hope for better things today.

Does anyone else hear the collective sigh from the premier league managers who will now face having a delay in getting their prized possessions back from international duty before Saturday's games? Just hope the players don't play with one eye on the weekend and fear of injury from playing on, what will probably be, a less than perfect surface.

Do not be to hasty to ridicule others lack of foresight after all it was not to long a certain weatherman at the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ assured the whole country there was no hurricane on its way many roofs caved in on that day.

IMO the game should have gone ahead regardless of the state of the pitch, the conditions were ideally suited to the plodding ingerlish and kick and chase, what is the world coming to when 22 grown men cant handle a bit of rain.

i thought the Ref played a blinder and on closer inspection demonstrated that it was indeed possible to both kick and throw the ball with considerable accuracy to boot.

I am disappointed Ukraine seemed not to offer much of fight on home turf .

Up the Arsenal and roll on when the real games recommence.

Bad for the fans bshot here should be no excuses for the footballers. One more night in a five star hotel for our poor, busy footballers whose next working day is Saturday. Just two days off for them now not three. It's a tough life.

Well what can you say about it last night? Odd? Farce?

Surprised they didn't put the roof on early on before the match, maybe they will do next time.

As Hahaha pointed out, it's a shame as the weather conditions would have suited "kick and run" tactics.

On another note, congratulations to Northern Ireland on a courageous draw against Portugal. 4 games in and Russia have already managed to open a 5 point gap on their rivals!

There will be complaints if one of the England players gets injured this afternoon. Clearly the preference (by someone) was to play the match with the roof open unless absolutely necessary. My guess is that the person who decided to keep it open didn't know that if the volume of water reached a certain level the roof could no longer be closed. I've never thought of football as being blessed with wonderful administrators at any level of the game from FIFA down, so this kind of problem should hardly come as a shock.

What channel is the game being showed on later guys?

So what will be the upshot of last night, then? My predictions:

2 Tournament ban for Poland, due to reduce revenues for Football Governing bodies because less people around the World watched this match and billboards were viewed 48% less in total.

8-game bans for the England goalkeepers for ignoring Batters warm-up regulations 2011 (tm, sponsored by McDonalds, "I'm loving it, Sepp's loving it, are your kids loving it yet?") which clearly state that all sponsors be visible on kit during warm ups which, once started, must last no less than 21 minutes for men, and 23 minutes with tighter kit for women.

3. Serb under 21 team - 3 hours community service in a local chain of a well known fast food outlet. Service can be completed by a player proxy (the coaches mum) if required.

Sorted.

The whole point of having a roof is to prevent this kind of thing from happening. The thing closes quicker than the roof on Centre Court, for heaven's sake! This is a monumental error from every angle.

I wonder if the Poles wanted to allow the pitch to deteriorate as much as possible to allow them the best chance of success. I can see no other reason why the roof would not be closed.
Was this theory discussed among the press last night?

@5

Not sure whether to feel sorry for the referee. I always thought it was the referee's duty to ensure that a game can be played in "normal" conditions. Whether or not one could have judged at 9am if the weather was going to take a turn for the worse is something I cannot judge, given that I was not in Warsaw. But surely a downpour of some sorts must have been anticipated - the weather can be fairly precisely predicted for around 12 - 16 hours and I don't understand why nobody felt responsible for looking at the situation there and then. The roof could have been closed and we wouldn't have had this farce.

It's a heavy downpour and they have a roof... For what possible reason could any of them have for not closing the roof? Was the roof broken? Did it run out of batteries? Was a bird stuck in the mechanical system? Someone please explain!

And don't even get me started on the England/Serbia U21 game! Serbia won't get a ban but they will get a tiny fine, FIFA and UEFA will claim there is no problem with racisim and it will all be swept under the rug.

Can't help thinking that the ineptitude started along time ago when the stadium architect designed it with a closing roof to keep out the rain that can't be closed when it is raining. What was the worst case scenario the designers considered for goodness sake?

@7. rw1969 wrote:

Is knowing before the game that it will rain hindsight ?

Writing 26 paragraphs about the subject after the event is hindsight.

Even though I don't think Adrian Chiles should present sport, his dry sense of humour was much needed last night!

2.At 08:11 17th Oct 2012, RubberNutz wrote:
26 paragraphs on rain.
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Too much time on your hands if you counted them!!

@25

" .. dry ... " LOL!

And yet this city awash with "ineptitude" still manages domestic league games after a full inch of snow falls overnight. Who could possibly imagine a nation's football being brought to a standstill in those horrendous conditions. Oh, wait...

Anyone see the Portugal vs Northern Ireland game last night? NI worth the point?

There was a time when a forecaster who got the weather right more than half the time was credited with clairvoyance; now we have satellites, it's a surprise if they get it wrong. Looks like Polish football bosses haven't heard of satellites.

According to one woman they interviewed last night they were expecting heavy rain - but couldn't predict a downpour.

It's the kind of farce we normally have in Britain [it's the wrong kind of snow].

By the time the ref went out for a third time to 'test' the pitch I though I was watching a Monty Python sketch!

30.
At 09:22 17th Oct 2012, GrampaGrumpy wrote:

There was a time when a forecaster who got the weather right more than half the time was credited with clairvoyance; now we have satellites, it's a surprise if they get it wrong. Looks like Polish football bosses haven't heard of satellites.
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Or forks. Or groundsmen.

Phil McNulty;

Football expert
Drainage expert
Friends of 'The England Camp'
Poet ;o)

If the Polish coach -Waldemar Fornalik- has had a big say in ensuring the roof should stay open to act as a leveller and benefit his team, as reported, then FIFA need to come down on the Polish FA like a ton of bricks on this kind of idiotic gamesmanship.

Brilliant hat-trick by Andy Carroll last night! Great result for the lads!!!!

itv football need to learn from test match special or wimbledon on the bbc when it come rain breaks or delayed starts. what they were saying was said over and over again in various forms.

@21

The referee is given a pitch - it should be up to him to decide if it's safe to play on or not, nothing to do with TV etc. It's also not his responsibility to get the pitch in a suitable condition, that's a total failure of whoever was running the stadium.

"Farce and ineptitude reign in Warsaw"


I didnt know the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Football team were running the event.



btw Alan Green was an utter disgrace.

This was a a mess up all round. As a Poland fan I agree it was an error of judgement not to close the roof in time especially as the rain continued throughout the day. But what the referee was doing throughout is completely beyond me! When he finally came on the pitch to inspect it it was way to late. And if both teams need to agree to close the roof, what are the guidelines when they can't agree like last night?
I can't help but say it is sad after the Poland / Ukraine euros went so well after all the bad publicity that was cast over it before hand. However in my opinion a number of problems arose in a number of different governing bodies last night and all need reviewing!

31.At 09:24 17th Oct 2012, BaggiosPonytail wrote:
According to one woman they interviewed last night they were expecting heavy rain - but couldn't predict a downpour.
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I read on the other blog that apparently there's some rule that if the team train with the roof open 1 day before the match then it has to stay open, and vice versa. Not sure if there is ANY validity to this???

34.At 09:33 17th Oct 2012, geofpearson wrote:
If the Polish coach -Waldemar Fornalik- has had a big say in ensuring the roof should stay open to act as a leveller and benefit his team, as reported, then FIFA need to come down on the Polish FA like a ton of bricks on this kind of idiotic gamesmanship.
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Let's be honest, if the downpour and waterlogged pitch was going to favour anyone, it would be England and their hoofball tactics. Gerrard and Carroll would be in their element.

That was planned!!!

@ 13 What is your nationality? If you're not English, why do you support an English club team?

Anyone watch the Great British Bake Off instead?

@32 Baggio

with respect I fail to see what possible use " forks " would have been there are now mechanical methods to improve the air flow through the soil.

To improve airflow and drainage to the said surface requires the introduction of the
humble but very industrious Mole its a very cost effective method to deal with
surface water and i am surprised the water authorities here have not looked into
using the humble Mole to combat the very serious flooding problems we have here in the UK after a few hours of rain.

#44
Watching bakers making Fondant Fancies is arguably better than watching the national team most of the time.

If it's going to rain, close the roof. If it then doesn't, open it again. Is it that hard?

No surprise. Go to an old Eastern Bloc country and it's like taking a trip back to the 70's. Last night was so amateurish it was laughable.

I blame Luis Suarez

The debacle in last season's 6 Nations was bad enough(France v Ireland, match postponed when players were in the tunnel). I guess they had the excuse that there was no under soil heating(inexplicable in a stadium in Europe) but to have the facilities and not use them is beyond comprehension.
The Polish FA should bear all costs.

With the TV cameras hovering around the tunnel while the ref did his inspections and such, it was a real eye-opener to see just how many blue-blazered 'officials' seemed to be milling around.

Like a sea pulled by the tide, they ebbed and flowed, seemingly all connected to the ref by an invisible umbilical cord - he walked up the tunnel, they all walked up the tunnel. He walked back, they all walked back. Thirty or forty of them.

But here's the thing. It didn't look like a single one of them, y'know, actually *did* anything. I wonder how much they get paid - and how I would go about getting a piece of that action?

Prawn sandwich anyone?

•Comment number 46.
At 09:47 17th Oct 2012, Weallfollowunited wrote:
#44
Watching bakers making Fondant Fancies is arguably better than watching the national team most of the time.
----------------------------------------------------------------
:D

As my wife had commandeered the tv to watch the bake off I decided to check the radio coverage. Alan Green hit a new low (difficult I know) for biased whinging reporting. I had to turn off, the guy is an embarrassment.

Whilst i would never want to see every football match played in some sort of hermetically sealed vacuum, i do find it strange when facilities designed to enable matches to be played despite bad weather are not used. I don't understand why at the first sign of a few spits of rain, or at the very most, 30mins of constant rain these roofs aren't closed.

Worst case scenario is that a football match is played under a roof when it needn't be, better that than the opposite. Am i missing something? Do these roofs require puppies or children as fuel to move? It just seems ridiculous that for the sake of pressing a button x hundred/thousand England fans are now trying to work out the practicallity of spending another day and night in Warsaw, not to mention the fact that we'll also have to sit through Adrian Chiles and his "look what i saw in the crowd" idea of presenting once more.

@43

I am what is known as a " Heinz 57 " and Arian ( alas without the blonde hair )

44.At 09:44 17th Oct 2012, parkthebuskickandrush wrote:
Anyone watch the Great British Bake Off instead?
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It was a bit of a joke that the john guy won.....

First off, hands up who ended up watching more of Portugal v Ireland than they thought might otherwise be possible? I was gonna get my football fix last night one way or another!

Anyway, it IS a pretty poor show and I guess someone will carry the can for not making the right decision. But, no one got hurt, no one has died etc etc so let's keep things in perspective.

I was amused by the way ITV soldiered on though I think Roy Keane might flip a lid if his pants are brought into the proceedings much more.

I wonder how this will impact on the game though? Will it have the same sense of occasion or will players be too busy thinking about this weekends games? (Some on Friday for local Poles if I heard correctly.)

47.At 09:47 17th Oct 2012, charlie wrote:
No surprise. Go to an old Eastern Bloc country and it's like taking a trip back to the 70's. Last night was so amateurish it was laughable.
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Nice bit of xenophobia to start the day.........

43.
At 09:44 17th Oct 2012, aries22 wrote:

@ 13 What is your nationality? If you're not English, why do you support an English club team?
-==-=-=-=-
maybe becuase 70% of the players in the "english" prem are not English.... dont be such a wum

29.At 09:19 17th Oct 2012, Theres_something_about_joe wrote:
Anyone see the Portugal vs Northern Ireland game last night? NI worth the point?

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I saw the 2nd half , N.Ireland deserved their point, and at no time did they park the bus in front of the goal.

In summary , Ronaldo was pants (again) , Roy Carrol had a blinder , and there was some poor finishing from the Portuguese.

55.
At 09:53 17th Oct 2012, MrBlueBurns wrote:

First off, hands up who ended up watching more of Portugal v Ireland

=-=-=-=- Portugal vs Northern Ireland buddy..... that like saying the wales v poland match was rained off last night..... you'll start merder!"!!!

What a storm in a teacup! Considering Poland has been playing catch-up since the 90s after our allies were kindly left in the hands of the post-war communist bloc, it's a miracle that they have the sort of facilities that they do for football - the vast majority of other European countries don't. They will not benefit from this slight error in judgement, and if there was any sense, the Polish FA will be held accountable for no more than sorting out the travelling English fans with another night's stay and filling today's empty seats with free tickets for Warsaw school-kids. Well done to them for getting the fixture rearranged swiftly, and I hope it's a great game for both teams.
And well done to John for winning probably the most watched, and equally damp, British bake-off final!

#48
I understand his agent has already been on the phone to the owners requesting similar conditions at Liverpool's next home game. Apparently seeing those fans on the pitch diving and sliding without any hint of a graze is his dream.

Whatever happened to the likely lads?

On the plus side, the Spain v France was excellent.

why has poland not simply been docked the points? they are responsible, they should pay the price. in any rational world this would happen - as it does at most other levels of football. It would soon put a stop to 'i'm not a fortuneteller' quips. but this is FIFA....

55.At 09:53 17th Oct 2012, MrBlueBurns wrote:
First off, hands up who ended up watching more of Portugal v Ireland than they thought might otherwise be possible? I was gonna get my football fix last night one way or another!
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I watched France thrash Spain 1 - 1 , how France did not win is beyond me.

Then the 2nd half of the Portugal vs N.Ireland game with ear plugs as the wife was screaming and swearing at the tele :)

45.
At 09:47 17th Oct 2012, HaHA CharadeYouAre2 wrote:

@32 Baggio

with respect I fail to see what possible use " forks " would have been there are now mechanical methods to improve the air flow through the soil.
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It makes a good headline though "No fork in clue"...

lol, yes parkthebuskickandrush, did you see James drop the cake? lol ... Not David :)

As I understood it ... the 2 sides decide on the roof position, the Poles wanted it open, they didn't expect a flood! And because it was torrential, roof couldn't be closed due to weight of rain and windy conditions.
There is under-soil heating, so any rain "quickly" evaporates, so the pitch should be ok. Let's hope it's a decent game, atmosphere (or lack of?) should help England (if we need it!) to a draw at least.
Just checked, listings a bit slow, but ITV1 from 3.30pm for armchair viewers.

62.
At 09:58 17th Oct 2012, Frank Black wrote:

Whatever happened to the likely lads?
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I've no idea. I wouldn't recommend they watch the highlights though ;-)

64.At 10:03 17th Oct 2012, repo wrote:
I watched France thrash Spain 1 - 1
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Have you been speaking to Patches recently? Sounds an awful like something he would say! ;)

62.At 09:58 17th Oct 2012, Frank Black wrote:
On the plus side, the Spain v France was excellent.
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Benzema and Ribbery just ripped Spain apart in the 2nd half.

#64 repo

Until Portugal equalised, there was almost no sound at all other than the laughably bias but humourous commentators who were writing eulogies about the victory and counting down the clock from about 65 minutes! The fans woke up though when they pulled level.

Bit damp there as well. In AUTUMN of all times!

#66
If they have a roof that doesn't work in the rain, it's as useful as an umbrella that you can't use in the rain.

As a nation we are certainly known for talking about the weather, when there is nothing else to talk about.

We are now doing it en masse.

@71 Weallfollowunited

It looked like Hodgson had decided, no matter how hard the rain was coming down, that he was not going to open an umbrella. Maybe it's in the job description now - thou shalt not hold a brolly under any circumstances...

@69 repo

Yes agreed! Although Spain should have made it safe first half.

70.At 10:06 17th Oct 2012, MrBlueBurns wrote:

Bit damp there as well. In AUTUMN of all times!

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Porto is in the grim North about 200 miles from Lisbon and 400 miles from the Algarve. Usually there is a 5ºc difference between Lisbon and Porto , and Porto does get more rain.

But saying that it is raining quite heavy today in Lisbon, but last weekend people were on the beach it was 26ºc , very nice :)

Elsewhere: It will be interesting to hear what Sepp (they should just shake hands)Blatter blathers after the disgraceful scenes in Serbia last night.

68.At 10:05 17th Oct 2012, Eduard_Streltsov_Ghost wrote:
64.At 10:03 17th Oct 2012, repo wrote:
I watched France thrash Spain 1 - 1
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Have you been speaking to Patches recently? Sounds an awful like something he would say! ;)
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Says he , who uses "pub standard" and "plodder" on a regular basis :)

English fans complaining abou the pitch? Remind me, how many times has the new £750 million Wembley stadium pitch been returfed? At the weekend we were promised a sunny warm Saturday and a rainy Sunday by the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ. And what did we get? Rain all day Saturday and a warm sunny Sunday. No satelites in England? And aren't English cricket wickets prepared to suit the home team bowlers?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

54.At 09:52 17th Oct 2012, Eduard_Streltsov_Ghost wrote:

Come on Eddie John totally deserved it. The other guy James choked when it came to final! ;-)

If there was not a roof the game couldn't be played today. It is sunny now.
The rain was very very heavy and the roof drainage system couldn't clear the water fast enough to be able to deploy the roof.
FIFA, the Polish FA and the English FA have to all agree before a game is played under a roof. All 3 footballing bodies were responsible for not making and decent decisions.

@58

Again? When else do you reckon he's turned in a poor performace, in Portugal's last game, because he's been good for Real?

1.Killingholme- Hindsight doesnt come into it when you have weather forecasts. Ever heard of those? Roof should have been closed on Monday, end of story.

77.At 10:13 17th Oct 2012, repo wrote:
Says he , who uses "pub standard" and "plodder" on a regular basis :)
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I just find it strange that Frank Black has not pulled you up on the "patchesisms" as he did me............Conspiracy I say!!!

France or Deschamps obviously learnt a thing or two from the Euros. Signs that Spain are not as invincible as everyone thinks? OR just a bump in the road?

What about Portugal....now 5 points behind Russia. Like I said yesterday, could it be like the U-21s all over again?

@78

It may have had to been returfed, but games are never abandoned.

czerwonadupa @78

English fans complaining abou the pitch? Remind me, how many times has the new £750 million Wembley stadium pitch been returfed? At the weekend we were promised a sunny warm Saturday and a rainy Sunday by the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ. And what did we get? Rain all day Saturday and a warm sunny Sunday. No satelites in England? And aren't English cricket wickets prepared to suit the home team bowlers?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The new pitch, it was the same with the old Wembley pitch, they blamed 'the Horse of the Year Show' for years. Mind you I can understand how dozens of showjumpers can churn a pitch up.

As for the English wicket preparation, tell me a nation that does not prepare it for the home team.

80.At 10:17 17th Oct 2012, clummers wrote:
54.At 09:52 17th Oct 2012, Eduard_Streltsov_Ghost wrote:

Come on Eddie John totally deserved it. The other guy James choked when it came to final! ;-)
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HAhaha but if it was JUST based on the final performance then why have all the other 12 episodes before that? Why not just get them to bake the final cake at the end?

@84

Bumps in the road. All teams have them even the seemingly unbeatable.

After their much hyped "demise" before the final in the euros, I would wait until the actually lost a game or had a poor run, before anyone starts talking about a reduction in quality

Apparently the roof was left opened on English side insistence on playing under open roof. Poles obliged but when the deluge begun it was too late to close it. End of story. Adrian Chiles is an idiot. Oh yeah, couple of groundsmen with forks would solve the problem, really?

82.At 10:18 17th Oct 2012, Theres_something_about_joe wrote:
Again? When else do you reckon he's turned in a poor performace, in Portugal's last game, because he's been good for Real?
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That is what everyone wonders about in Portugal.
The headlines in the sports papers today are "Portugal played without Ronaldo" and "where was Ronaldo ? "

Well, it's embarrassing for Poland, a farce they and England could have done without.

But I'd prefer this ten times over to the violence and ugliness in Serbia, where the U21s were targeted by racial abuse once again, and then assaulted after the final whistle. The Poland incident was incompetence: Serbia showed us something much darker. Well done to the U21 boys, I hope we all stand with them.

87.At 10:21 17th Oct 2012, Eduard_Streltsov_Ghost wrote:

The other 12 episodes are a knock-out like the group stages in football. He did wonderful to get to the final but fell at the final hurdle. We have seen this story hundreds of times before.

89: Numerous contradictions around though isn't there? Adrian Bevington said the decision rested with the Polish whereas the Polish say it was a joint decision.

"The roof only takes 20 minutes to close but the sheer weight of water meant this could not be done. The drainage system could not cope with such a continuous downpour..." I still don't get this? Are we saying the roof will never cope with such a downpour even if already closed, or that the roof can't be closed during a heavy downpour? Please explain...

@ 44 (parkthebuskickandrush): Funnily enough my wife decided to record Great British Bake Off and another program (Holby City was it? I can't remember, it's all drivel anyway!) at the same time while she went off ice skating, leaving me with a TV that couldn't tune into the football (or lack of it) anyway! Even more fortunately, I'm off work today so I'll get to see the crowd fallout at 1600BST with regards to the Italian referee (if he's still there) and the Polish national coach.

On another note, I hear that the FA is considering reimbursing the English fans who went there. Errrm, why? Shouldn't that be the Polish FA's job?

88.At 10:22 17th Oct 2012, Theres_something_about_joe wrote:
Bumps in the road. All teams have them even the seemingly unbeatable.
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Without Pique and Puyol Spain look very vulnerable in defence.

92.At 10:25 17th Oct 2012, clummers wrote:
87.At 10:21 17th Oct 2012, Eduard_Streltsov_Ghost wrote:

The other 12 episodes are a knock-out like the group stages in football. He did wonderful to get to the final but fell at the final hurdle. We have seen this story hundreds of times before.
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Hahahha! I knew you'd say that. I was forced to see it because the missus was watching it when I got back from the pub. It's as big a sham as all the other guff like x-factor and strictly etc etc

On an unrelated note, did anyone expect the cold efficient Germans to let a four goal lead slip? You can expect it from the Arsenal but Germany???

@89 (Zigzag): Ahhh! That's the reason why the FA are reimbursing the English fans!

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