³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ

..who from the point of view of justice have asked for full compensation for the damage done to our development prospects....

basically everyone thought this was going to be a big pay day and now realise the bogus climate narrative that uses jedi mind trick words like rich and poor countries and climate 'justice' has been rumbled.

the gold bath taps in the palaces will have to wait.

funny how NN doesn't point out if they get to do all what they want this is going to cost everyone in the uk £100 of their fuel bills. mainly given to china.

i see no justice in that.

HAVE YOU ALTERED THAT EXPRIMENT SUSAN?

Nip round to Ethical Man's house and tell him to demonstrate H2O in place of CO2. You know it makes sense.

... It is the responsibility of each human being today to choose between the force of darkness and the force of light. We must therefore transform our attitudes, and adopt a renewed respect for the superior laws of DIVINE NATURE.

- Maurice Strong, former Secretary General of UNEP, opening speech of 1992 Rio Earth Summit


.... Little by little a planetary prayer book is thus being composed by an increasingly united humanity seeking its oneness. Once again, but this time on a universal scale, humankind is seeking no less than its reunion with 'divine,' its transcendence into higher forms of life. Hindus call our earth Brahma, or God, for they rightly see no difference between our earth and the divine. This ancient simple truth is slowly dawning again upon humanity, as we are about to enter our cosmic age and become what we were always meant to be: the planet of god.

- Robert Muller, former UN Assistant Secretary General, founder of UNESCO

lots more juicy quotes here

to quote the line in the vid

'World domination. The same old dream. Our asylums are full of people who think they are Napoleon...or God'.

Bond should be sent to Copenhagen.

MY DIVINE NATURE IS APPARENT TO ALL ON THIS BLOG. (#3)

³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ comes up with a subject and I divine a way to abuse it.

i think we need to hear more from the 'planet of god' people susan.

one of the quotes on the page above is

..we can be sure that the vast majority will not commit social and ecological suicide to enable the minority to preserve their privileges. However it is achieved, a thorough reorganisation of production, consumption and distribution will be the end result of humanity's response to the climate emergency...

a thorough reorganisation of production, consumption and distribution?
what 'minority' are they on about?

can a comrade er i mean climate change campaigner tell me what that means? the bbc should know given the amount they promote it?

are those who resist counter revolutionaires er i mean 'deniers' and flat earthers?

The COP 15 has been badly managed by the Danish. It may be heading for a "failure" and I believe partly it is the Danish and their inner coterie to be blamed because of their two track approach - trying to push through a secretly agreed wordings - their draft. This has removed trust from such negotiations between the G77 and the developed countries and rightly so. Hedgegaard should have been thrown out early on not 3 days before the end of COP 15(I don't believe her departure was planned...). The world leaders should have come on day one and set out the agenda and then returned towards the last days to firm up the agreement not just appearing on the last day (to do what!!!).
The next step is to get back to the real negotiations and without "disturbance" of the climate protestors. These should be allowed to protest in Netherlands while the governments decided on the agreement peacefully - this is a serious negotiation process not "climate tourism" for the protestors to cause disturbance. I wonder now, who funds these protests and if the donations given to the "green agencies" are being properly utilised??

To my view M/s Suzan ,this climate isn't coursed by human being ,the world leader they have to acknowledge this.But we are living in the last day and world leader should know that by referring to the bible ,global warming has been predicted 200yrs ago that will be happened and now we see.They wont find the solution for global warming until Friday.the world should accept that our might God who created this entire world is coming very soon and this should happened,human being cannot solve this problem.

People in africa they are starving until now but nothing has been solved since G7 ,THE WORLD LEADER ,they should go or sent the represantative in village to see people the way they safer,no food,no hospital,no road,no school,pupils they still sitting on the floor or dust,in poor infrusture.Corruption is big problem in Africa.My advice to world leader let us to help developing country by sending TX to build infrusture no t giving money.Hope the best on Friday but l hope no solution wil come on friday.HELP AFRICA ,HELP TANZANIA

ALL THIS FUSS ABOUT HUMAN SURVIVAL

The whole climate thing is contentious, but tobacco, alcohol and armaments kill - with varying degrees (geddit) of intermediate misery and degradation.

Any chance the Miracle Team, currently working wonders in Copenhagen, will address the obvious?

Thought not.

I watched "Climate Wars" last night and, afterwards had trouble sleeping. Not because the "evidence" had convinced me, but because of a nagging doubt. I have always been fairly Green-minded and, raised my family without a car or air travel. However, it has always been the toxicity of modern life, rather than CO2 and Climate Change which has been my personal driver.
The nagging doubt revolves around the use of paleo-dendrochronology within the argument. Measuring the width of a tree ring can certainly allow us to age/date a tree, by reference to comparitive data from other trees within the same ecosystem. Comparing the size of different annual rings is the means by which the comparison is acheived. Much the same as the manner in which astronomers used photo-spectrometery to discover Red Shift and, the fact that the Universe is expanding.
However, it would appear that within the Climate Science debate guaging the age of a particular tree is as far as this evidence has been used. This raises several questions in my mind:

1) Does, as the presenter of the programme and many climate scientists would have us believe, the width of an annual growth ring give us any clear indication of, ancient, past, or current temperatures? A vital point if assumptions about pre-eighteenth century/thermometer-recorded temperatures are being being deduced from tree ring dimensions.
As I understand it, the only role that temperature actually plays in plant growth is the rate of moisture loss through transpiration. Hence, the coniferous needle type leaves of plants in climates too arid for desciduous woodlands. Certainly, trees do not prosper in perma-frost; but above 4 Celsius and in temperate climates, the only effect of temperature on trees and plants with xylem accretion is to limit the varieties that will grow to the available water supply.
2) As I understand it, there are three fundamental variables which affect rates of photosynthesis and mass acquisition within a plant: the ready availability of sufficient water as mentioned above, the ready availability of sufficient atmospheric CO2 and, electromagnetic radiation of a suitable wavelength (important within plants posessing different leaf pigmentations). Above perma-frost levels and, beneath the temperature which would exhaust the water supply available, atmospheric temperature plays no part in the process.
So. How can the width of an annual growth ring really be a reliable measure of atmospheric temperature, particularly from a period before reliable measures of temperature were made?
3) If there was any material correlation between the width of growth rings within an extant tree of more than a century in age and, atmospheric CO2 levels; then, all other things being equal, one would expect the growth rings of the last decade to be nearly twice the width of those a century ago; given the figures for CO2 quoted in last night's programme. Personally, I have seen no data whatsoever to suggest this. Has anyone else? I very much doubt it.
4) The one variable which seems to have been omitted from the discussion - light - does not necessarily have any correlation with either global average temperatures, or that in specific locations. Primarily because of the albedo effect of the atmosphere. Hence, there may be broad growth rings manifested in an area which has little cloud cover, but is further from the Equator than a tropical region, where cloud cover is dense (taking into account also the angle of incidence at which the Sun's rays hit the Earth's atmosphere).

In short. If "The Hockeystick" is derived mainly from paleo-dendochronological data and, subsequently thermometer readings without reference to contemporary dendrochronological data; it is very likely to be imprecise at best and wildly inaccurate at worst!
Like I said. I live my life as toxin-free as I can and, I feel that the CO2/Global Warming pudding has been ostrich-egged! It wasn't CO2 that rendered Lake Baikal uninhabitable. Nor did it do the same to the Thames or the Rhine in the previous century. If you wish to save the planet, don't go out buying solar-powered garden lights!

#11 Harry

Read your post. Please check 2).

As far as I am aware CO2 is never a limiting factor in plant growth.





I can follow all the rest. But increasing CO2 will not increase plant growth as all the other factors water, temperature etc will always be the limiting factor in plant growth. There is always sufficient CO2.

Please reply if you want to take the discussion further.

Celtic Lion

12 Roger

CO2 enrichment of glasshouses has been a standard practice in crop production for many years.

Research funded by the British government many years ago, demonstrated that the yields of glasshouse lettuce could be increased by 30% by this method.

97 experiments on carbon dioxide enrichment in the open indicated an increase in plant growth of 20% for the doubling of CO2 forecast for mid-century. By that time the world population will certainly need all the increased crop growth it can get.

Let me know if you would like the references to the research papers.

Anserinum

I an understand the glasshouse situation and was aware of this. In high temperatures, high light, plentiful water, CO2 may become the limiting factor.

From a pure ecological perspective I have no knowledge of increasing CO2 promoting plant growth as other factors always limit before CO2 does.

If there are any references available I would be interested in just the odd one to read to see how they have arrived at the research/ conclusion.

Roger

The reference paper is "Rising atmospheric carbon dioxide: Plants FACE the future"

In Ann. Rev. Plant Biol. 2004. 55:591-628

"FACE" is "Free-air CO2 enrichment". The review includes reference to 222 papers published in refereed journals.