Wednesday 8 June 2011
Lots happening on tonight's prorgamme at 2230 on ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Two.
Richard Watson has the latest on the story that the Crown Prosecution Service has opened an inquiry after claims prosecutors withheld undercover police officer Mark Kennedy's surveillance tapes from defence lawyers.
Our economics editor Paul Mason will be asking what can we do about banks.
Mark Urban will bring us the amazing story of the Syrian blogger, , who is missing.
And Stephen Smith has been to meet iconoclastic choreographer Michael Clark whose latest work - which fills the Tate Modern's Turbine Hall - uses professional dancers alongside volunteering members of the public, and which Clark says embodies the punk spirit for which he first became famous. .
Join Jeremy at 2230 on ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Two.
Comment number 1.
At 8th Jun 2011, Mistress76uk wrote:Well at least the government can say "we listen to the people" when people protest against reform of X/Y/Z.... :p
I don't see what's wrong with having private universities at all. We have the freedom to choose from private or state schools, so why shouldn't we have more private universities? The only one in the UK (so far) is The University of Buckingham. Boris (Johnson) did a piece on private universities earlier this week in The Telegraph:
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Comment number 2.
At 8th Jun 2011, muggwhump wrote:Call me a cynic but I've always been a bit suspicious of the governments motives for 'forcing' the banks to lend more money to people.
We live our lives in a constant state of debt, and any kind of future economic downturn is going to mean that people and businesses will find themselves getting into arrears and defaulting on their loans.
In previous recessions in the 80s and 90s we just weren't carrying the same debt burden as individuals or businesses so those that failed went to the wall and the banks took the hit.
I just can't see that happening these days, even a mild slowdown is going to cause the banks a major headache however much they are recapitalised. So, inevitably they will come back cap in hand to the taxpayer for support, I think they know this and so do the government.
Hence the 'lending agreement'. The banks can say 'you made us lend to people we didn't want to and now they can't pay us back...what are you going to do about it?'. It handily keeps us on the hook for the next time.
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Comment number 3.
At 8th Jun 2011, Mistress76uk wrote:Oh I LOVE this article in The Spectator! Jeremy v Balls :o)
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Comment number 4.
At 8th Jun 2011, richard bunning wrote:There shouldn't be a "sentencing policy" on its own at all - we need a much more root & branch approach based on how we deal with crime as a whole - sentencing & prison are a small part of the picture. If you boil every crime down to a monetary value (and I accept there is much more to it than that), then allocate the resources of the criminal and legal systems to combat it, we'd never see a policeman again and virtully all court cases would be about fraud. This is because by monetary value ALONE, the majority of crime is committed in the City of London by companies and individuals through fraud and tax evasion. I know this is a simplistic way of looking at crime, bt it does reveal how far away we are from an objective approach of any sort.
The hallmark of a civilised society is how it deals with people who transgress its laws - and the very first factor is to separate the Mad from the Bad - anyone who has had anything to dowith law enforcement or prisons will tell you that a very high proportion of the people involved are at best borderline, if not over the edge.
And whilst someone may not be over this line, factors in their lives may have led them to offend - drug addiction is ver high up on the list but if you start loking at sexual abuse, may offenders were victims themselves as children, etc.
So lets look at those who we do lock up - why do we think this is the right way to deal with them? For most of human history there was no such think as "prison" - it was merely somewhere people were sent until they were tried and punished by fines, death, mutilation or slavery.
The claim that "Prison Works" is a merely a truism that whilst in prison prisoners can't commit crimes on the general public, but if you see it as a process, prison is a much more dangerous strategy for dealing with crime bcause it is in effect a university of crime and a "Criminal Facebook" which turns out hardened, more expert and well connected criminals when they leave.
So the debate needs to centre around WHO should be locked up, WHY they should be locked up and WHAT we do with them whilst they are inside.
IMHO public safety should be paramount - people who are a real threat should be kept off the streets until they are no longer a threat - and that may well mean until they are very elderly or dead.
After those who are dangerous we need to make the punishment fit the crime, not fall back on some simplistic templated, warehousing operation with evermore convicts learning to
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Comment number 5.
At 8th Jun 2011, richard bunning wrote:To continue after the blog cut me off:
After those who are dangerous we need to make the punishment fit the crime, not fall back on some simplistic templated, warehousing operation with evermore convicts learning to be better criminals at huge public expense. Prison should be about CHANGING offenders - this means creating a challenging and lifechanging environment that is proactive, not a dumping ground for society's rejects.
I'm with Ken Clarke in seeking fundamental reform of the criminal system, but I'm against crude supply side mumbojumbo of using the sentencing "price" mechanism of extract more guilty pleas and hand down 50% lower sentences.
We could start by ending the pointless exercise in handing out short sentences for minor crimes, but ramp up the effort put into community sentencing - and why do we bang up young women with children for minor offences? Drugs are such a huge driver for crime - we could raise the sentences for pushing, but decriminalise addiction and use a medical paradigm to manage addiction problems.
Prison needs to change - it needs to do what the armed forces do so well, often with young men and women from the very environments that many young offenders come from - they challenge, nurture and reward young people and produce people who can contribute and have real skills, even if they left school with nothing. Look at the Army's heavy vehicle driving school - 97% pass rate, turning no-hoper kids from inner cities into excellent professional drivers - it can be done.
We need to invest in those who transgress - we need to recognise that they need a way back into society and that they must change their attitudes and behaviour, but society needs to make space for them and be prepared to offer the carrot as well as carrying a big stick.
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Comment number 6.
At 8th Jun 2011, kashibeyaz wrote:The numbers don't lie!
Oh, but they do! Take the example of the Alberta Health Service in Canada.
They targetted a wait reduction from the current average of 35 weeks for a hip replacement operation down to 14 weeks in the next five years until they discovered the "Shadow List" - compiled by Gatehouse, no doubt - where patients waited unofficially until there was a good chance of them getting the op.
The Shadow List wait was 12 weeks, so - in reality, people were waiting 47 weeks, meaning a reduction in waiting times of 70% in the next five years - or a bigger "Shadow List."
To quote; "People not responsible for the system, but held accountable for its performance, now have waiting lists for waiting lists to mislead those who are responsible for the system but are not held accountable for it, to incorrectly evaluate performance in order to hold those not responsible for the system accountable for meeting targets that are not achievable."
OR; "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." (Jan van de Snepscheut)
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Comment number 7.
At 8th Jun 2011, stevie wrote:prison works does it? As the country that locks up more of it's citizens than any other country in western Europe we should be top of the league in penal reform, in 1971 we had 44.000 incarcerated so after a succession of home secretaries pandering to the Daily Mail and Telegraph it is no surprise that we have 86.000 locked up, what next public executions on the high street?
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Comment number 8.
At 8th Jun 2011, kevseywevsey wrote:I did like the next media of Tiawan animation on Weinergate yesterday. Pictures of his croch sent to women has been seen by all -I look away meself (have you seen the one with the kitten) I always knew Anthony weiner was a slime, a democrat congressman who appeared happiest on chat shows..this fella does like the camera..yap yap yap goes Weiner. He spent neary 50 miniutes apologising in front of the the press the other day -we didn't hear any apology though..this guy is a Liberal democrat so he wasn't expected to apologise..it became embarrasing to watch this fool waffle. Anyhow, after Weiner got of his podium, Nancy Polosi (Demo) called for an ethics investigation on Weiner - and thats rich coming from her.
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Comment number 9.
At 8th Jun 2011, Hawkeye wrote:Hopefully we'll be hearing NEF's views on the nature and role of banking.
In the meantime, here is a useful overview of the two social "benefits" that banks claim to provide:
"The very premises of modern banking – risk transformation and maturity transformation – are actually convoluted sleights of hand !! In reality, they can’t actually reduce risk (it can’t magically go away!) or equally create liquidity from nothing. It’s just an illusion acquired through an exploitation of the public’s confidence. In other words; deceit."
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Comment number 10.
At 8th Jun 2011, barriesingleton wrote:I WAS WRONG - ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ DO MENTION THE 9/11 CHARADE
On the Today Programme they afforded air time to Jonathan Kaye who has a 'book' out that purports to demolish those who address the 9/11 illusion. I normally buy books that ADD to the sum total of data. I shall not be buying this one. Scroll down to the vid here
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Comment number 11.
At 8th Jun 2011, barriesingleton wrote:MY GUESS IS THAT WISE STATES HAVE A POOR NIGHTLIFE (#4,5,7)
Were that not so, by now, we could have sent a big delegation to study why such states have far less failed citizens.
Westminster has POWER - it must accept RESPONSIBILITY for HUMAN FAILURE. Those who fall below an acceptable behaviour level, need to be detained, assessed, 'statemented' and only released when uplifted/restored to a sustainable level of competence.
The state has outlawed Mums and Dads, seen off childhood, and intensified institutionalising school. If some go wrong in this regime - THE STATE MUST TAKE A BIG SHARE OF RESPONSIBILITY, rather than just label individuals BAD, and apply industrial retribution.
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Comment number 12.
At 8th Jun 2011, barriesingleton wrote:HOW MANY WOULD PLEAD GUILTY WHEN WELL STITCHED UP BY THEIR ACCUSER?
How many, in custody, might be 'brought to the realisation' (in the middle of the night say) that they were a villain, due to be made to 'fit the crime', so best to plead guilty and minimise 'just deserts'?
If I want to access a sense of right, wrong and justice, I do not turn to an unrepentant Tobacco Baron whose products have done far more criminal damage to human life, than 'Terror' ever will.
Nuff sed
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Comment number 13.
At 8th Jun 2011, jauntycyclist wrote:..Fillery added more officers to their network. Rees also boasted of recruiting corrupt Customs officers, a corrupt VAT inspector and two corrupt bank employees.
According to journalists and investigators who worked with him, he then exploited his link with the lodges to meet masonic police officers who illegally sold him information which he peddled to Fleet Street....
Coming after the Lords and Commons sagas corruption seems endemic and institutional in uk while investigation is limited and stunted?
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Comment number 14.
At 8th Jun 2011, jauntycyclist wrote:actually given the targets [royals etc] in the guardian piece it makes mi5 look like berks for allowing it to happen and continue? or are they in on the gravy train too?
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Comment number 15.
At 8th Jun 2011, brossen99 wrote:As usual perhaps naive Newsnight journalists have totally missed the main point in the main story, namely ( at the at least ) circumstantial evidence of UK state sponsored eco-terrorism. Without undercover police assistance ( said to have arranged and paid for buses for transport to demo ) its probable that the said protest would not have occurred in the first instance. In previous coverage its was said that corporates also had moles embedded and how convenient was it that at the time when the 2008 Climate Change Act was going through parliament to portray mass public opposition to coal fired power stations ?
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Comment number 16.
At 8th Jun 2011, nomdeplume wrote:The opportunity for serious inquiry into the atrocities being committed in Syria was passed over by Newsnight because the image of a person who lives in London (and therefore out of the reach of the regime and immediate danger) has been wrongly used as that of a political activist and blogger in Damascus. Spurious facebook privacy story prioritised over human rights. Disgusting.
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Comment number 17.
At 8th Jun 2011, Mistress76uk wrote:Very interesting points raised about the CPS by Jeremy with Baird et al and also an excellent discussion on banks failing to lend to small/medium businesses. As for the "blogger and activist" in Syria - perhaps he/she may not really exist at all.......:p
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Comment number 18.
At 8th Jun 2011, Mistress76uk wrote:Forgot to add - loved the tribute to Rainbow at the end :o)
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Comment number 19.
At 8th Jun 2011, barriesingleton wrote:UNDER A CULTURALLY CORRUPT REGIME, SEEKING AN HONOURABLE MP IS AN ACT OF FUTILITY
When life is lived in a terrible smell, the smell goes unnoticed. Corruption in UK is endemic across all areas of life; from the supermarket sales trickery to the decision not to pursue international bribery. America would appear to be much the same, and the rest of the world will be sucked in.
But what is NewsyNighty up to? They appear to be shining a light on institutional corruption - APPEAR TO BE. I can only conclude that SOMETHING ELSE IS 'GOING DOWN' that we must have our attention drawn away from.
Another Cameron dirty trick perhaps?
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Comment number 20.
At 8th Jun 2011, brossen99 wrote:Complain about this comment (Comment number 20)
Comment number 21.
At 8th Jun 2011, brossen99 wrote:Complain about this comment (Comment number 21)
Comment number 22.
At 8th Jun 2011, SophieYounger wrote:Re the piece in tonight's Newsnight around the 'Gay Girl in Damascus' blog, how on earth could Paxman allow 80% of the airtime to be focussed on how annoying and wrong it is for it to be possible to steal photos from anyone's Facebook account, rather than on the fate of numerous citizens of Syria who have been 'arrested', tortured, murdered? I absolutely DO understand how shocking it must have been for Jelena, yesterday, to discover that a photo of HER was being used all over the world as the face of 'Amina' - the Gay Girl of Damascus blogger, who was seized off the street by 3 men on Monday evening - but why did Newsnight focus on how annoying this is for her rather than on the unbelievable abuse of human rights that is currently taking place in Syria? If I were Jelena I would have said that I felt honoured to be the face of Amina, if it would help to protect Amina in any way. Thank goodness for the Syrian human rights activist who was also interviewed. He was the only one who focussed precisely on what needed to be focussed upon.
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Comment number 23.
At 9th Jun 2011, brossen99 wrote:Complain about this comment (Comment number 23)
Comment number 24.
At 9th Jun 2011, brossen99 wrote:Complain about this comment (Comment number 24)
Comment number 25.
At 9th Jun 2011, Mindys_Housemate wrote:I also fully support Britain and France's stand on Syria, and i hope other moral countries will follow suit.
thank you, Prime Minister David.
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Comment number 26.
At 9th Jun 2011, barriesingleton wrote:IS VIAGRA THE NEW ALCOHOL?
The Gaddafi regime has resorted to 'Viagra-type substances' (am i really writing this?) to support a rape policy by soldiers.
Meanwhile in Britain: state connived alcohol, is venally intra-venous to the entire population, and rape follows, as surely tax follows sales.
These backward nations need bombing into our advanced culture-space, going forward.
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Comment number 27.
At 9th Jun 2011, barriesingleton wrote:CLAPTRAP TONY - THE ENDURING ART OF THE VACUOUS (Today Programme)
All of the questions - none of the answers; just vague goals.
Get a plan for change - implications difficult - judge as you proceed - huge change after Gaddafi - huge Syrian implications - major change - dramatic implications - "good question" um er splutter. He was our PM -
WE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE.
Clearly: for Evil to prosper all that is required is that St Tony to does nothing.
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Comment number 28.
At 9th Jun 2011, ecolizzy wrote:#27 "Get a plan for change" Don't worry Barrie it's already happening! ; )
I wonder what politicians we'll end up with, (I'll be dead, hopefully) when this lot can vote
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Comment number 29.
At 9th Jun 2011, barriesingleton wrote:MEANWHILE MIGRATION INTO THE PALACE OF WESTMINSTER UNABATED (#28 link)
Westminster, like Britain, is never short of individuals trying to get in. Is it the hand outs? Is it the easy life? Is it the disaffected seeking the dysfunctional?
How long before the first Slut Party MP Lizzy? Or (harking back to the origins of Labour) THE IMMIGRANT PARTY!
Yup - i'm opting for death too - it will be legal soon, if only for economic reasons - like Ken's 'Custody in the Community' initiative (not bad for a bumbling Tobacco Baron).
THIS IS THE AGE OF PERVERSITY in the dumb-space going forward.
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Comment number 30.
At 9th Jun 2011, richard bunning wrote:This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.
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Comment number 31.
At 9th Jun 2011, stevie wrote:the establishment closing ranks again with the decision not to have a public inquest into the death of Dr David Kelly....they really must have something to hide....
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Comment number 32.
At 9th Jun 2011, jauntycyclist wrote:i'd like an inquiry into how climate extremist can excuse proposed criminal acts [attacking power stations] on the platform of a public broadcaster.
black propaganda
which state is both anti syria, has a history of using uk identities and has a state run internet warfare team? is this the same state that was using false identity on twitter to promote anti iran propaganda?
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Comment number 33.
At 9th Jun 2011, barriesingleton wrote:YOU MIGHT ASK THAT JAUNTY (#32)
I couldn't possibly comment already.
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