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PRISON POPULATION AS AN INVERSE MEASURE OF CULTURAL VIABILITY.

ALL the individual subject that come up for discussion and dissection on this blog, are facets of cultural expression. Britain has almost no positive, constructive culture left, and what it has, is nihilistic.

Just as retail food and drink should be integrated with the NHS by people of proven WISDOM, so prisons and schooling should be brought into an integrated policy.

While the Westminster Ethos prevails, none of this will be tackled and money will continue to be both the 'control lever' and the 'answer' to EVERYTHING.

Weep Britain.

SO - PAXMAN AND CLARKE - NO CAMILLA BATMANGHELIDH?

Paxo's demons might just inform him - if he dare let them. But flappy demons in Hush Puppies, tend to lack empathy with angry, nihilistic lost men.

ASSISTED SUICIDE: FAULKNER WORRIES THE WISH MIGHT BE A 'PASSING PHASE'

He really is 'Charlie' Faulkner! When a squaddie signs-up, should we not worry that it is a passing phase? And has it not occurred to Charlie that no one, having chosen, complains of being dead?

Let's run a trial. Make it possible to visit the local vet (or call him round) and be 'put to sleep'. I have already told my GP practice I want to be informed, the moment they have a 'consent form'.

Let those who think 'life', in any container, should be prolonged, because it is 'special', suffer all the attendant miseries (that we spare our pets). But let those of us who wish to go in a manner, and at a time, of our choosing, at least have control at the end, that is denied us at out beginning.

Charlie is a lawyer by training. I want a philosopher on this one.

Looks like tonight's programme is simply a government propaganda exercise.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

White horse village:
Amazing how quick this village has been transformed into a city.
The winners and losers in yesterdays report leaves you full of admiration and sadness in equal measure. The building contractor grows ever richer. The teacher telling the awful story of her fathers plight and her petition for mercy; pleading life imprisonment for her father rather than the death penalty. Then you had the Communist party worker, tired of it all, disappointed with the reality of his fellow villagers. At least this Communist Party official was smart enough to invest in some real estate -something thats only allowed for party hacks, don't you just love Socialism.
This report was like a mirror to our own past ..and most of our present. Our own industrial revolution displaced many did it not?. Corrupt officials and interested parties, having the right friends and networks and knowing who to bribe ..yep, sounds familiar!
The Chinese can build an airport in the sea in less time than it takes the British to construct a quarter mile bypass. Even with all its faults, China should be admired for many things, especially its work ethic, a work ethic we once had but let slip and lose. But like all developed countries, it will all go wrong. Give it 10-20yrs from now, then the health and safety crowd will put the brakes on the Chinese march on it unequal collective development... an army of mandarins with clip boards and boxes to tick. They'll eventually go the same way we did.

Does prison work?
It would if we sent them to prison early on rather than ponce about with community sentences and early intervention that does not actually punish. Our justice system is a joke thanks to the madness of Liberalism and woy Jenkins. Stealing a car should be punishable with death by rope, watch the crime rate go down if that ever became law. The need to save money which we are all experiencing should include the reduction in costs of keeping prisoners with an enviroment so inpleasent that they'd never want to return, remove TV and playstations. The do goody libby soft approach has proven not to work..oh and introduce a sterlisation programm to ensure these miscreants don't breed more criminals...

'..don't breed..' can I say that mod?..was that too strong a sentiment?..I could mince the words but still convey the same message. I'm I skating on thin ice?..the thin ice of modern life as Roger once sang. Sorry i digress. The thanks giving holiday was not all its cracked-up to be. I may never get on a plane ever again.

#7 kev;
"The need to save money which we are all experiencing should include the reduction in the costs of keeping prisoners, with an environment so unpleasent that they'd never want to return; remove TV and playstations."

And to EVICT foreign prisoners and ensure that they never return (for at least 10 years)as those sensible Swiss people have just decided - in their democratic state complete with referenda. But of course not available to us pawns governed by EU laws and regulations.

"The do goody libby soft approach has proven not to work..oh and introduce a sterlisation programm to ensure these miscreants don't breed more criminals..." er.... good thinking, but then you know that Gango1 is not around to play the Hitler card on that idea.

I posted my thoughts on the do-goody-libbies blogs that followed last night's Channel 4 Dispatches, about the locking up of kids - who shouldn't be in UK. Looking at that blog again today, I see that there is now some support for the more cynical views that I expressed. As I observed, with so many lefty-libs blogs I wonder why the LibDems didn't achieve a landslide victory last May.

The Corporate Nazi's must be getting pretty desperate to hide the truth about their Climate Change Scam ?

yawn,more rich white males spoilt from the womb bemoaning how to tell the poor how to live. we need more arms and a revolution to free up this planet now. people get off your knees and wake up.

does prison work?
having ason in prison i really do feel qualified to comment on this.
My son is in a young offenders institute 100 miles away from his own town.He had been on the tag and did not stick to it,he was also given a community order both of which he failed to stick to.I was the first to say that these two forms of punishment don't work.Every time he breached they refered him back to court where they would just give him extra hours on community service or an extra couple of weekson tag.Whatsthe point of that?also how much did it cost to keep refering him back to court?Eventually he was sentenced to 2 and half years for breaking into an empty property.This sentence could have been avoided if the community service or cerfew rules were stricter.After all there are yong men fighting on the front line for their country.
He has been in now since 6 months and i know it is killing him inside.I have only been able to go on 3 prison visits during this time due to the length of the journey.So i feel i am doing the sentence with him.I feel that the sentence given was'nt in line with the offence commited,although i am the first to agree that he should'nt have done what he did.
He has only just got a job in there as there are waiting lists for jobs,the lads fight in the showers,and drugs are available so please tell me what is he learning?As far as i am concerend he's toughing up and learning to defend himself,that could make him worse on his release.
In my opinion prison does'nt work!!!! As a young mum and seeing my son in there i really wish that the government would make all over 17 year olds that are unemplyedgo into the army.That would make a majority of the young people today in my eyes.

Excellent Jeremy yet again tonight :o)
Hadn't realised it cost £45,000 per prisoner per annum! :p Of course we could just introduce Sharia law, and see crime rates fall overnight ( I am being sarcastic!). However, it seems that Switzerland has the lowest crime rate in the world. Perhaps it's about time we adopted Switzerland's model.

THE WISDOM OF KEN IN THREE COLOURS - NEWSBLIGHT JUST WENT NOVA

What a very mixed bunch they were - but only one had a bizarre sing-song way of speaking. That SET HIM APART, as did his reference to: THE CRIMINAL CLASSES! Ken wants 'JUST AND PROPER SENTENCES' - would that be for honourable, fiddling MPs too Ken? Ken speaks of 'RETRIBUTION' and 'NECESSARY PUNISHMENT FOR CRIME'. This, he says is the starting point for EVERY SENSIBLE PERSON. Finally, Ken says he is thinking 'outside the box' more than others.

If a farmer's animals are found to be in ill-health, and, are distressed to the point of self-harm and attack on others, the farmer is deemed unfit.
Farmer Clarke, who has been farming us for decades, takes NO RESPONSIBILITY it seems, for the mayhem in Farmyard Britain. Well done Ken. You go on 'thinking outside the box' - all the problems are INSIDE.

What is it about the POLITICAL CLASSES? I think they need a long stretch in a retraining camp. Every time we let them back into Westminster THEY RE-OFFEND!

PS What were the thee-colour lights about?

Being an ex=offender (21yrs ago)I strongly disagree that prison works. When you have a criminal record you cannot find employment especially when you have an unspent conviction.I served a 7yr sentence and when i was released i was given £2.50 and was expected to get my lifeback on track. Even now 21yrs down the line i am still being punished. I am unable to get a job,I am unable to train for certain occupations.Miracuously i have not re-offended.I have to rely on government handouts.They need to give ex=offenders a chance in paid employment. Most people offend in order to get money due to hardship.Its logical if someone is earning enough to pay bills, rent etc they would not re-offend.No one enjoys prison!!!!!the majority of people would not want to go back.The government has got it completely wrong.As long as things stay as they are they will be giving handouts,which will cost more in the long run!!

Bleeding heart prisoners..the circle is complete.
I've always liked Ken Clark but never got him. He's supposed to be a Tory political heavyweight, but his arguments for rehabing offenders still seems very wooly; totally unconvincing. And he can't talk about the cost's because he's no idea, he's making it up as he goes along.
Peter Hitchins was one of a few who made good sense. Hitchins mentioned the fact that most prisoners come from the habitual criminal who was never checked early in their "career". Hitchins comment is so obvious but never seems to get understood by the fools within this constant debate about crime and punishment. I could be wrong but was the Govener in this crowd?..totally wet behind the ears, another softy in charge of something that needs a real bloke, not some university graduate. The first thing Ken Clark should do is sack all uselss Goveners, all the wet and weedy types and get some proper blokes in these 'warehouses'..the prisoners tonight may have been allowed the freedom to speak for this NN special, but I get the feeling the prisoners also have some power over their masters in general..that would need to be sorted. I've never been to prison, mostly because my father would punch the back of my head for doing anything remotely wrong - and I thank him for that, somehow punishment and the work ethic kept me away from helping myself to shopkeepers stock without paying (apparently a crime that does not hurt anyone) plus been wacked by teachers who were not crippled by the fear of retribution from the PC mob of giving a naughty kid a crack around the back of the head. But I do note that common sense seems to have left the prison masters. Liberalising the Justice and prison system over the years and messing around the edges of this costly system has only made matters worse. Keep it simple, be firm, let them gain a couple of convictions only and then bang them up. No gray areas, no agencies to earn handsome salaries and a revolving door of 'clients' to sustain their jobs. Like I said , keep it simple.
P:S also -to echo one poster on here - send all foreign lags back to their home land. The sleeping tax payer is awakening and he ain't an happy bunny. This coalition Govt better not drag their feet on many matters regarding managing this country, otherwise they'll be an uprising, Ken Clark may have to go, get replaced with someone with real ideas..this Govt haven't got the leisure time that the last idiots had.

PRISON IS ONLY ONE THING THAT DOESN'T WORK (#11)

My grandfather was an alcoholic who 'disappeared when my dad was young.
He was without direction as a young man finally (after a suicide attempt) making a dysfunctional marriage and three kids; I am the youngest. In these days the marriage would have collapsed. I grew up angry and, like my dad, without direction. I was useless at marriage. Only marginal solvency (employment was easy in the 50s) and therapy (brought about by pure CHANCE) put me and my marriage on some sort of footing. We survived.

Life is mostly about luck. An awful lot of luck is bad. British governments have no understanding of the human psyche, and why lives go wrong. With IDS fixing welfare, Ken Clarke fixing 'justice' and Nick Clegg showing us how honourable people behave, nothing will improve in short order.

I wish you all the GOOD luck in the world, and a change in the fortunes of both you and your son. I could SO EASILY have ended up in prison.

WHY DO SO MANY LAW-TRAINED GO INTO POLITICS WHEN WE NEED PHILOSOPHERS?

Law is an obsessive mind-set, caught up in ancient precedent and 'nice points in law'. Real life is fuzzy. No two events are the same, no two people identically innocent or guilty.

How many individuals from the gentle, caring professions go into politics? Indeed - how many would WANT to be in that juvenile, game-playing place?

REHABILITATION REALLY CAN WORK, BUT ONLY IF..........

And before anyone thinks of having a jab at me, Yes I am an ex-offender who has served 40 Months Prison sentences for numerous Re-Offending, Why you may ask?

The Answer is really simple to work out?

Rehabilitation, getting people on the straight and narrow, working again, second chance, you have served your sentence !!!!!!! Hang on a second here, what a load of C**P, Why do I say this? Simple.........

What second chance have Ex-Offenders got? You serve your prison sentence, you get out of Prison, you have decided in prison before your release that you are never gonna re-offend again, your gonna get a Job, have a family, live a comfortable life, crime free, all well and good thats a good goal to work towards, I will give it a try, then reality hits home at the task you face in the age of Todays world in actually achieving this goal.

So now I am out of Prison, lets see now, first thing first, I need a Job first, shouldnt be to difficult to get a Job, right? No actually this answer is Wrong? Why? Ask the Politations of this country as these are the people who have set all the Laws for Ex-Offenders on what they have to let employers know about the time they spent in prison, so they arm the Ex-Offenders with that if they keep out of trouble for XX amount of years then there prison sentence becomes Spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, so they do not have to disclose any information to there employer about time spent in prison, great I hear, well I dont think so, why, simple, because the same Politations have made another Law that allows a lot of Employers to carry out a Enhanced Criminal Records check on any person they wish to decide on who they employ, and they have made it law for the Employers to make these checks, you dont need to be a wizard to work this one out for yourselves, yes you got it yet? How on Earth are you meant to get a Job, as the minute you lie in your application for a job but are really telling the truth under the Rehabilitation of the Offenders Act, is shortly followed after closely by the Employers Enhanced Criminal Records Act Check, were all your convictions are disclosed to the Employer without your permission. So when you go to Fill in an Application for the Job and you read in the job description that the company will do an Enhanced Criminal Records check on your background, its like a kick in the teeth, the Law needs changing on this and Quick? As long as its not a Sexual Offence, which should always be disclosed, Why should all your convictions be disclosed. The Only Information the Employer should be given should be relevent to the Job you are applying for, If I am exempt under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, then this information should not be shared with anybody, only in a court of law, as it states.....Change the Law on this?

The biggest Issue here is, people like me, with a past history will not apply for jobs because of the above issues, so we tend to apply for the jobs that nobody else wants, for £5.87 an hour expecting people to have a ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ, a Mortgage, a Family, a Future, great on what £200 a week tops, you wanna try it Folks believe me it is Hard, harder than Prison, simply trying to survive never mind paying bills.....

#18
Great post Popeye.

Makes me wonder. Should all Local Authorities (government) have an enforced policy, to employ a reasonable percentage of ex offenders in 'proper'. properly paid jobs in order for them to build up a cv and 'work out' their record.

I know many may say 'serves them right for doing wrong' in the first place, but rehabilitation must be the best way to keep a majority with a streak of decency and remorse from re-offending.

I also think the addiction problems highlighted last night must be dealt with in a way more effective than life long methadone replacement.

CRB checks/disclosure are a curse on all aspects of life. I would love someone to come up with a handful of cases when any child/vulnerable person has been protected by this money spinning discriminatory piece of paper. Hey, It's discriminatory. Is that allowed?

Maybe the CRB offices need people to process forms. They too should have a minimum 25% ex offenders placements.

Jeremy didn't ask how many community orders his interviewees had breached before going to prison. There has to be some way of making people do community sentences or most offenders won't co-operate. It is not surprising that the reoffending rate is worse for prisoners than others because the prisoners are often those who didn't turn up for their unpaid work/ drug treatment/ anger management or whatever, and have deeper anti-social habits to break. If there was no threat of custody, many more community sentences would never be completed.

IF THE DYSFUNCTIONAL GO TO PRISON - DISCHARGE THEM INTO PARLIAMENT (#19)

Parliament is the NATURAL HOME for the dysfunctional.

I don't know if Heroin is available in Westminster but alcohol (subsidised) flows free in 19 bars. The typical MP is used to being tightly regulated (whipped even) and a vast amount of unproductive time is expended by Westminster inmates. But the BONUS is that ex-offenders know far more about what ails our society than IDS, Clarke, Gove and La Kitten, all rolled into one. Make it so.

A question for all those reading/blogging who either are or are closely involved with an offender/ex offender.

What were the circumstances that led you to offend in the first (and possibly subsequent) instance?


The reason for asking, if not obvious is that I feel the starting point for debate should be how to cut the rate of first offending - thereafter the other problems decrease exponentially. Don't they?

Before the government can seriously claim to be interested in rehabilitation, they have to create the circumstances in which reformed offenders can be legally considered rehabilitated. Currently, anyone with a conviction which results in a sentence of more than 30 months custody is NEVER considered 'spent' under the 1974 Rehabilitation of Offenders Act.

In theory, a 21 year old can be sentenced to 3 years for a robbery, serve their full sentence and never re-offend, but will still have to disclose their conviction when applying for employment or insurance even 40 years later. If they fail to do this, they can be dismissed or have their insurance invalidated. Clearly, by virtue of not re-offending, they are morally and socially rehabilitated, but they have no protection under the law and still face discrimination even many, many years later. Just 1 day in prison remains 'unspent' for 7 years - how is this productive?

This sends out the message that if your sentence is beyond a certain arbitrary length, you are beyond redemption and should never have the same legal status of equality no matter what efforts you make to turn you life around. Add to this the fact that there are large numbers of illegal CRB checks applied for by employers and it quickly becomes so apparent why ex-offenders do not have favourable circumstances in which to make the right decisions about the future. It is an offence punishable by up to 6 months custody to request a CRB check when it is not necessary for the job (Part V - Section 123 of the Police Act 1997), yet only one or two employers have ever been prosecuted for breaking this law. Clearly our government is not interested in addressing discrimination against FORMER offenders.

As a radical idea, lets scrap criminal records for the purposes of employment altogether with limited exceptions for safeguarding vulnerable groups from people who show they have not addressed any risk that they might pose. The current 'moral panic' over sex offenders is illogical - the vast majority of sex offenders don't receive subsequent convictions (despite intensive monitoring) and the majority who abuse children don't have previous convictions (about 90% are friends and family of the victim). The 'sex offenders register' didn't stop Vanessa George - because she didn't have previous convictions, or John Barrett who we all heard about last week (he didn't have previous either).

What purpose do criminal records actually serve apart from enabling discrimination? Surely when someone has served their sentence for a crime that should be it? Shouldn't we offer people better protection from discrimination to give them every opportunity to get 'back on track'. How does society benefit from allowing people to be continually excluded and what outcome do we expect from this? If someone commits a serious offence they should go to prison, sometimes for a long period and rightly so, but shouldn't they have a second chance once the sentence ends?

On top of this we have a media with a lust for retribution that is obsessed with reporting the salacious details of 'crimes' (at the expense of reporting on 'crime' which is actually steadily falling across Europe - even in countries that don't lock up as many people as the UK. All this leads to the 'demonisation' of people who break the law and with internet news reporting, their offences are archived for all to see indefinitely. We are continually bombarded with tabloid trash about 'holiday camp prisons' - over 1,000 people have committed suicide in UK prisons in the last 15 years (not to mention self-harm). What is the comparable suicide rate for Butlins I wonder?

Rather than giving people 'folk devil' status it is their criminal behaviour that needs to be condemned and addressed, rather than just adding stigma to them as people. In reality, how many failed job applications and extortionate insurance premiums can one person take before they lapse into criminal behaviour again?

There are 8 million people on the Government's offenders index (check out Hansard) - does the law abiding majority really exist?

WHAT DO YOU CALL A NANNY'S HARD HEARTED HUSBAND?

LC2 reprises my second paragraph in #1 above.

When Westminster appears to address human frailty, it is for 'announcement', aka party advantage, rather than true compassion. The irony is that the 'Criminal Classes' (Caring Ken's words, not mine) are punished for dysfunctionality; that they should 'control themselves' is implicit. But the 'Farcical Fraternity' (Battling Barrie's words - lost on Ken) who inhabit Westminster, and thrive under its aberrant ethos, see themselves as above the law (in the Chamber they mostly are).

What are the whipped, rosetted, ninny, ciphers to make of LC2's simple, self-evident TRUTH? They will put it through the policy sieve, the funding sieve, the vote-catching sieve, the headline-grabbing sieve and all the other measures of worth, that Westminster politics has devised. A sad drip will emerge, and totally fail to register on the 'sad drip' mind-political.

Weep Dysfunctional Britain.

'FOLK-DEVIL STATUS' (#23)

Post 23: informed and well-reasoned. After the Revolution, may we send IDS, Ken, and all the rest the Farcical Fraternity to you, AJH 1980, for 're-education'? (:o)

@ #25
Cheers barrie,

When/where does the revolution start and should I bring a packed lunch!

I think IDS and Ken are generally well-intentioned but they are asking policy questions that are too detailed rather than having a sensible conversation about what outcomes they want to achieve and what is the easiest way to achieve them. What actually works to stop people re-offending? Work and the means to further themselves, a valid stake in society (allowing prisoners a vote is a small step here), positive social relationships within their community - currently many former offenders don't have any of these things.

If you actually think about the issue it isn't rocket science is it. The current system stigmatises former prisoners and others convicted of criminal offences by labelling them. For instance, we have something called the National Offender Management Service. People are 'offenders' that need to be 'managed'. What would be wrong with the National Offence Management Service - i.e. it is the offence/behaviour that is the problem and not necessarily the person who might also have many potentially good qualities. We currently define people based only upon the worst things that they do and don't identify or recognise their potential.

Can we address the offending behaviour by punishing it out of them in prison or through unpaid work? No, but if we put the right opportunities in front of people to enable them to change once their punishment has stopped and reduce the barriers that stop them from making the right choices then we empower them to take the right path.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Some will choose not to drink, some might. With the right opportunities some might even learn to water-ski! It's up to the individual to make the change but putting a enormous sign up at the lake saying 'No horses here...EVER' is not going to help the situation. Especially if that horse then gets fed up and dumps on your lawn.

POA

are they militant? ideologically driven to prevent prisoners working?

IF YOU ALLOW THE HORSE ON YOU LAWN, SOONER OR LATER IT WILL DUMP! (#26)

DO keep posting AJH. I love a telling turn of phrase! (And a laugh.)

You are clearly a kinder person than I. But I must take issue with your view of politicians. I doubt 'well intentioned' politicians have done us much good. (Tony thought he was such.) It is their (unconscious) MOTIVATION, rather than intention, that needs scrutiny.

I return you to just two words from Kenneth Clarke: "CRIMINAL CLASSES".

I see our culture as having turned, inexorably, from Nature to Mammom since agriculture (industrial hunting/gathering) blighted the sustainability of the Ape Confused by Language. It is an elephant that will not even FIT into the 'political space' (going forward).

My MP sees me as an eccentric irritant. I have no doubt HE knows what Ken means, but he has no idea where I am 'coming from'. He most certainly never pauses to realise 'they' voted for HIS ROSETTE to get rid of Brown Labour, not for HIM, or that his PERSONAL vote, WITHOUT THE ROSETTE, would be a few thousand tops.

Such is civilised democracy in Britain.

ajh1980 wrote:
"..we have something called the National Offender Management Service"

do we, do we really!..well that needs scraping. who pays for this by the way?

ajh1980 also wrote:
"We currently define people based only upon the worst things that they do and don't identify or recognize their potential."

What about the potential of people who never went to prison?
Where is there agency?

I see the justice system as a racket. Jobs for the boys, the probation officer mob, up to the magistrates and judges. It is vitally important to them that they have a ready supply of clients. An ineffectual justice system coupled with a soft prison service guarantees that the agencies involved with this overblown system will always be in work..its engineered that way, prisoners are just fodder. Can you imagine Britain where crime is not a problem. What would the police do? (1 in 6 is involved with the funny handshake crew, the secret societies, the freemasons etc) No crime equals no magistrates..no need for the amount of lawyers etc. Crime pays so they say, well yeah, especially if your a lawyers or copper..don't you see why this problem is never dealt with proper...its a racket. And that level of fear on the streets keep the average joe preoccupied, he ain't watching what the govt is doing to him with more taxes etc because he's to busy buying bigger locks for his doors and pumping numbers into his alarm system every day.

Yes I did cringe a bit when he used the phrase "criminal classes" as though a criminal act should consign you to the sociological naughty step! Will this be an option in the census for social stratification purposes?

I think generally most politicians are well-intentioned (I'm naive maybe?) in that they want to make society better. Unfortunately some of them are spectacularly ill-informed or just bigoted in their opinions and their resultant actions end up having a detrimental effect. Often policy can be well-intentioned but completely rubbish because it hasn't been thought about properly. This is the case with much criminal justice legislation of recent years.

Unfortunately I fear Ken feels he must still bang on about 'retribution' and 'criminal classes' as he has to keep the Daily Mail readers of the world onside. I hope he is able to resist penal populism better than Jack 'Knee-Jerk' Straw did who bashed prisoners (and prisons) on a regular basis to satisfy the whim of the tabloids and appear tough.

As EM Forster once said: "An opinion may be influential, and be influentially backed, and yet still be tripe."

PMQs FARSE

Limited Ed gets more limited every day and was pathetic. Dissembler Dave just mocks him (with justification but no propriety) and questions go unanswered. But of course, this being the mother-mother of parliaments, the presiding official (Mr Speaker) has NO POWER to require that questions be answered. We have surely reached bottom.

What a disgraceful charade to show the world. Does Afghanistan deserve such an imposition? Worse than any gratuitous bombing.

LC2(22)
"A question for all those reading/blogging who either arer or are closely involved with an offender/ex offender.
What were the circumstances that led you to offend in the first (and possibly subsequent) instance?
The reason for asking , if not obvious is that I feel the starting point for the debate should be how to cut the rate of first offending - thereafter the other problems decrease exponentially. Don't they?"

This akin to Paxman asking Christopher Hitchens about his cancer. Insider information just is not informative. When asked of someone who habitually makes stories up, all one is likely to get is narrative. These questions should be asked of those who study these matters, and that means not politicians, offenders or in cancer victim cases, those who are ill.
I believe your questions have been answered by earlier bloggers, long ago. That still so many people still ask such questions, and on Newsnight, is both sadly revealing, and explains why we have so many of the problems that we do.

barriesingleton (21)
"Parliament is the NATURAL HOME for the dysfunctional."
That's a tad ironic. Did you not tell us that you stood as a candidate in 2005 but were unsuccessful?
Does that mean that you are not dysfunctional enough?
Or put another way: and why are you so eager to spoil other people's party games?
Let's hope you don't run along exactly parallel lines as you would be missed by many for your excellent prose and wit.

#19
Thanks LC2

Glad someone can see sense, I have been living with my previous convictions crime free for the past 25 years and still find the same obstacles in my path when it comes to employment, pathetic really.....

No wonder people re-offend and until the goverment look seriously at this issue they will never solve anything. How can anyone who has never offendeD, who has never stolen in order to simply survive, who has been brought up in a family background by decent parents but who also had no money and have to live in the slums of the UK make the laws telling people how to live there lives once out of prison if they have no chance of working in a decent paid job.

And no wonder people are not so keen to tell the police about these people, people who live among people of committ less serious crimes for money will hardly ever grass them up to the police because they know how hard it is to survive themselves without worrying about what other people are doing.

The answers really are Simple, Stop labelling people for the rest of there lives, it is like a life sentence, when you dont even know them?

End