³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ

Oh the benefits of consumer society. Choice, choice and more choice. Do I leave my comments about unemployment here or on the unemployment blog? I can't decide. Does it matter? Perhaps there is a website for confused bloggers.

Celtic Lion

If Blair is to be an EU presidential candidate should he not be asked whether he made mistakes over his attitude to financial regulation?

Or is his only regret "that he should have gone further".

For those far right posters who spread their pernicious lies on this page planned economies have never been able to set a price or function properly in the long run. For Hitler it was fine while he could "blitzkrieg" his weaker neighbours but there is no evidence that his ambiguous attitude to economics would have sustained his war machine.

A low carbon economy will mean higher fuel bills - until the flight from carbon is complete and a sustainable and renewable energy source is found.

If greater commitment had been shown to alternative technologies rather than simply pausing whilst the government "listened" and then pushing for nuclear power we would not be in the pickle we are going to be in in a few years.

#1 kingcelticlion

"Perhaps there is a website for confused bloggers. "

Good luck in your hunt.

Well I know you are not the BNP or a Nazi so I don't have to stress the benefits of capitalism (ideally harnessed in a socially responsible way) and democracy against the planned economy and tyranny of dictatorship that the BNP would seek to implement.

There are those who seek to champion the policies of Hitler but I would rather suffer the mistakes and foolishness of those who attain power in a democracy knowing that the system will correct itself over time.

In a dictatorship you don't get the choice.

LIMITED ED AND THE 'CARBON BUDGET'

Oh help. If each department of government has a carbon budget, what will be the total footprint of setting this up? I think we need a departmental Footprint Czar for each department (with the accent on 'mental').

But we are THE FIRST COUNTRY to go this barmy. ANOTHER FIRST FOR BRITAIN!

RECESSION IS GOOD, LOST IS BETTER

Probably the 2nd best thing that could have happened to young people is the recession and the advantages 'un' employment brings. It gets them out of the machine and into a position of objectivity.

The most important thing for young people is it stops them contributing to their own demise. Many jobs do nothing. They just gobble up resources, create pollution and are an exercise in putting bums on seats for the numbers game and some contribution to the tax man that somewhere will involve a law of diminishing (negative) returns.

The planet's ecological life support systems are pretty close to catastrophic collapse. Which unfortunately will result in the death of many if not all of the young people we are discussing. I would suggest our first priority is keeping them alive. That may come under some legal term such as 'duty of care'.

By keeping them out of contributing to the consuming machine which is eating our planet, the recession is doing them a favour. It gives us all a breathing space, albeit short, to try and save all our lives. Recession and 'un' employment is good for us all. Rejoice in the opportunity it has provided.

Next the time gives them the aforementioned objectivity. A time to assess, analysis and to question. What is this all about? Something very little taught in school. It gives then time to talk to people in the street. Chat to older members of the community. Without money perhaps realise sunsets are free, watching a butterfly is cheap.

Instead of having money to go and watch a Star Trek film. They might get a grip of the reality. They are on a spaceship. It might be more than 7,000 miles across, but it is only the top few feet of the surface which keeps them and everything else alive.

They are spacecraft engineers. They must maintain the life support systems. Slowly with time and help they might realise what Governments, the mainstream media and the rest of the establishment spews out, is rubbish. It is only one very small belief system in the multi dimensions of available reality. And there are other options which might be better, better for them to understand and guide their life by.

There is eternity and infinity for them to explore, and not just the narrow perception heaped on them, conditioning them to believe that it is the truth and only truth.

Then with evolving wisdom they might start living and creating the viable alternative. Life, love, compassion, consideration, care, community-local and global. And in living with a tangible purpose, not some tat such as contributing to increasing and higher levels of economic growth. They might be happier.

Lost generation? Let us not forget that lost is a relative term. Lost is a prerequisite of exploring a new place and a new way you didn't know existed before. That to me is exciting and stimulating.

Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be
The pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see . . .
That 'recession' is painless it brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please
--Michael Altman

I have changed one word for poetic effect.

Celtic Lion

On Lewington the "Waffen SS " manual would-be bomber arrested in Lowestoft:

'"Is he the real deal? Is he a terrorist or is he just a big pest, a nuisance?" Mr Etherington asked the jury.

He suggested Lewington was a "silly, immature, alcoholic, dysfunctional twit, fantasising to make up for a rather sad life".

But the defendant was convicted of seven out of eight explosives and terrorism charges. '

Isn't that the point about our attitude to the far right right? A "nuisance".

This man was going to cause serious injury or death to those who did not fit into his racial or ideological views.

I doubt whether a post on a ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ web site would influence any judge so I think I can say that I hope the sentence reflects his intention fully - but does take account of his capacity to execute the plan.

There is also the chap arrested in the North East arrested and found to possess a jar of ricin who is yet to be tried.

I think it is fair to deter others via the sentence.

If you are trying to show British Nationals who are of immigrant origin that Islamic extremism is not the way you don't really want these far right extremists creating a crisis via terrorism that they will then attempt to exploit through some more mainstream avenue.

From age 16 to retirement I was never unemployed, but had my career disrupted by National Service. However those 2 years of National Service (and taking a Dale Carnegie Course!) proved to be the pivotal events in my youth, both building much needed discipline and self-confidence, and led to a change in outlook, career, and now a comfortable retirement.

The benefits of National Service are sorely needed in today's society, providing the boot camp elements of discipline and respect, with character-building elements of teamwork and camaraderie.

This country must now have one of the world's lowest levels of patriotism, not helped by the social engineering failure of multi-culturalism. A requirement for all who seek the benefits of sanctuary and hospitality in United Kingdom should be a period of national service, to include a mix of military and community service. Those whose allegiences prevent them from serving this country should not be allowed to remain here.

If the public sees this election as a choice between Labour, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats then turnout will be low. If however they are presented with a real choice, an alternative to the usual choices, then it is more likely that they will be enthused to cast their vote. I think Newsnight is missing the real story of this election. After all the scandal of MPs expenses and corruption, in Norwich North there is an independent candidate who has a real chance of beating the major political parties, whom the public are sick to death of. Craig Murray (Put an Honest Man into Parliament) is running as a local, anti-sleaze candidate and his campaign is gaining real momentum. His odds, at 20/1 are far shorter than those offered for both the Lib Dems (25/1), the Greens (33/1), UKIP (100/1) and the BNP (200/1). Even Labour, who currently hold the consituency have odds of only 10/1. With hardly any media publicity that is a real achievement in itself. If Craig Murray wins this election, or even beats some of the major parties, this could be the start of a new interest in democracy across our country, with more and more local people standing for election to represent their communities, rather than a particular political party. Talk to the people of Norwich North, they know Craig is a serious candidate and they are turning their backs on the 'main' parties.

Now wouldn't it be embarrasing if a serious news programme, such as Newsnight was to miss out on such a big political story...

Memo 2 the head clown (oh gord)

How 2 Lower ones carbon footprint /getting rid of Unwanted Gas, Plough up the roads and plant nulabour Vegshitables. easy init

A bit late I'm afraid but is it too late to stop Jeremy treating everybody who comes on like a fool? The Chief Medical Officer is not some pressure groupie or politician peddling a line but the country's top professional trying to help the public and nagging the poor chap like a Bristol washerwoman to say things against his professional judgment is somewhere on the line connecting ill-mannered to idiotic.

hallatrow (#11) Good somment.

The NN backroom folk should do some graphs.

1. Death rate per month by age group over the last 5 years.
2. Death rate per month by age group since 'Mexican' H1N1 turned up.

Over 600,000 people are born each year in the UK, and a similar number die too. There just isn't enough data to say anything useful about this yet as people die and people have H1N1. one needs a statistically signiicant change in monthly death to normal before anyone can say H1N1 is a significant new mortality risk factor that we should be concerned about.

Goldman and us.

without the massive public bailout there would be no financial system. A bailout that means decades of cuts in public spending.

So until the financial system does not need that public bailout should there not be a super tax on any profits from what is effectively a nationalised finance system until it is all paid back to the public?

why should financial companies benefit from what is now a nationalised industry?

further Goldman was at the heart of the mortgage backed securities business. Which caused the crash and the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs.

there is no justification for financial companies to keep all their profits while their industry is nationalised. why not a 70 : 30 split in favour of the public till the crippling national debts that keep the fianncial industry going are paid off?

as it is every person in the uk and elsewhere is paying for those 'profits'.

see how the oligarchy keep their beloved system of privatising the profit and socialising the loss.

Re: Mr Leonard Cohen in Liverpool

P.S. I don't think I shall be dancing for neither Mandy, nor Gordon, nor Campbell, nor JJ

VENAL BUT LEGAL

What we have all got to take on board is the difference between what's venal and what's illegal. Through changes in legislation, on both sides of the Atlantic, we now have a system which effectively licences expropriation from the vulnerable on grounds of caveat emptor and a myth of equality/choice, where legislation once protected the unwitting/vulnerable. This is why I've repeatedly posted links to material on the politically incorrect Normal Distribution of intellience, how groups (both ethnic and sex) differ in mean ability, and how the distribution itself has very probably been dysgenically changing as a consequence of a) mass immigration and b) policies which shift the birth rate towards the left of the ability distribution where the 'fine print' is least comprehensible. At the same time, many more peole now live with the delusion that they're smart because of the 10x expansion of Higher Education over the last 30 years. (Also posted to Peston's blog).

Despite it's past propaganda mission on " the environment " perhaps Newsnight is conveniently failing to mention the extra 8% " Private VAT " ( 15% if you include the current 7% ) to pay for even more wind farms to stand idle for 75% of the time by 2020.

Of course the spin doctors have managed to massage the figure so that the increase is only a theoretical 100 quid if you are fortunate enough to have heavy insulation. Of course you must first pay for cavity wall insulation etc of which there is good evidence that it makes your house damp. Rots all your floorboards allegedly, perhaps leaving your house technically unfit for human habitation so you have to buy a " new " one at inflated prices.

The whole of environment policy relating to climate change is obviously a massive investment scam ( 150bn ) and of course the Corporate Nazi stock market parasite CBI support the policy in principle. Britain's only wind farm turbine maker has just closed down so the stock market parasites can scam even more changing money on the imported infrastructure.

Of course we are promised " green jobs " but that's no use to those who will loose their jobs as traditional manufacturing becomes more expensive due to artificially inflated energy costs. The government claims that a record number of people have come off JSA but that probably consists of those who have been claiming for the maximum permitted period of six months.

Perhaps this sums up our EU and UK government stance on basic human rights like being able to afford to keep warm, dry and have a full belly.

Could it be that unemployment, in UK and worldwide, has a simple cause: that population increase and technology have both increased at such a rate that there is no longer work enough to provide paid work for all mankind?

As a Work Study management trainee in 1950's I knew Parkinson's Law -
" Work expands to fit the time available for its completion" a cynical observation on not filling the unforgiving minute with 60 secondsworth of distance run. I observed this law in many industries and governments.
But now, we have reached saturation point between work and humans.

The only options appear to be:

(i)generate more unnecessary work (as in government departments);
(ii)reduce dependancy on robotics and advanced machinery (Tolpuddle);
(iii)halt the population explosion.

An example of (i) could be the re-introduction of National Service. I was called-up in 1950 when it was increased from 18 to 24 months: the resulting 'critical mass' generated enough paperwork and procedures to keep most busy (with help from Parkinson's Law). Work Study in 2 London Boroughs showed that the slack from efficient methods and manning was taken up by resurfacing more roads and repaving footpaths irrespective of need.

(ii) not much scope for this option as I doubt that today's youth now have the stamina to return to manual methods of work (eg coal mining).

Which leaves option (iii). Each year it is the most serious of problems, responsible for wars over territory, man-made environmental catastrophe, mass migration, and soon will be over basic needs as sea-levels rise and more lands become arid. Yet we talk about other things, because we do not want to upset those who hold sway over the poor and ignorant, and pc and diplomacy take priority over truly urgent matters.

Looks like National Service and more roadbuilding (or housebuilding) will be the way to put off the real problem of population control again.

no funding for national service so mayhem rules

NORWICH NORTH - IT'S A START (#9)

So! Norwich North has the balls to SPOIL PARTY GAMES. A journey of a thousand miles, starts with a single step. Stephenuk1 puts flesh on my repeated assertion that the Westminster Ethos can be swept away by the simple, feasible expedient of voting in an independent in every constituency. Choose a local person of known worth (and if possible - some reluctance; one 'pressed man' is worth a thousand volunteers). Parties are NOT fundamental to governance - only parties (and the dumb faithful) say that they are. Governance is simply management. Look at the qualities of politicians; how long would any company last under such management?

Come the election: SPOIL PARTY GAMES. Are you going to take this up NN?

#hollowtrow
Objectively speaking, having just watched again Mr Paxman's interview with Sir Liam Donaldson, the Chief Medical Officer for the UK, it seems to me that it was a perfectly reasonable discussion between them about the possible scale of the pandemic nature of the swine flu that the country is preparing itself for. I can't think why Sir Liam would have any reasons for complaints. It is, after all, the job of journalists to ask questions in order to get the widest possible picture of the issue concerned.

Tonight I witnessed a young adult "Chris" ? seem to imply that putting in the effort to look for a job was not worth the £100 or so that he appeared to think was due to him - because of the facilities available. I think this is a disgraceful attitude.

Times are incredibly difficult with many very skilled and qualified people out of work, with many of these approaching retirement age. As an employer, we have been inundated with applications for positions from very decent and qualified people putting in the effort to secure jobs, and to hear a young person appear to suggest that they deserve special privilege or service makes me sick (I'm in not a dis-similar age set).

I can only assume the "Chris" and his fellows are blinkered by the life they have so far witnessed or they are very spoiled/naive. I hope that "Chris" does not represent the majority of his generation as if this is the case they have a lot of growing up to do. For the record, and for balance we do also employ a great deal of excellent young people, who show great talent and have a much more mature attitude to work.

M.

Thought the whole 'lost generation' piece was pretty poor. Extremely selective talking heads both in Paul Mason's piece (eg: the criminology grad...how many graduates study something they later go on to do at work?) and the 'debate.'

Yes, unemployment will hit the younger generation, as it did me, but frankly as a graduate what I really needed was a mentor to help me think laterally about career opportunities. I ducked the 1990s UK recession by working in another market that was doing better. And guess what I came back to the UK having gained greater experience (and had quite a good time).

For the graduate in the FS sector, who should be advising this person?! Clearly a good point made about the Job Centre schemes - given the range of skillsets they might meet they can't cope with every scenario.

Obviously without the details of this individual's situation it's difficult to understand the realities faced, but a graduate from a good Business School not being able to find opportunities in any industry?! (one of the interviewees outside the Job Centre showed commendable pro-activity by recognising the downturn in construction and moving into IT...although the Govt can do much more to support such enterprise).

The bigger issue is for younger people, who leave school with less or no qualifications...which has been the same broken record for many, many years. Yes, giving money to companies to employ people may be an option, but frankly it should no longer optional for people to leave school with little or no qualifications.

Everyone has to accept the reality of global competition in terms of skills and everyone has to accept their responsibility to develop skills that will make them employable.

Completing a course is not enough. Vocational qualifications must lead to highly skilled professions, as happens in countries such as Germany.

#19 Are you going to take this up NN? Well they're not are they Barrie?!

The main three parties mentioned of course, and a lot of pushing of the green party I felt, and the briefest, I felt sniggering, mention of Craig Murray. So NN doesn't follow your plea for, Spoil Party Games! does it?

#6 plus one over the weekend
Celtic Lion
Is it funny? Do you think it's funny?

To pure art would like to move on soon
To verse just about anything
Like, for example, from moon to baboon

Moon on baboon or baboon on moon
Thats what I would like to move on to soon

Baboon is an animal quite close to us
Moon is an object of millions of sighs

Does a baboon yearn for the moon
Or is the moon keen on baboon?

I am most disappointed that no coverage was given to the ORMLP candidate for the Norwich by-election. The candidate's solution to reduce child obesity by reducing their food intake and replace ASBOs with a clip around the ear seems eminently more sensible that the policies of the other parties

apologies for taking up more space but here is a corrected version of 'Moon & Baboon and Baboon & Moon'

To pure art I'd like to move on soon
To verse about things like moon or baboon

Moon on baboon or baboon on moon
Thats what I would like to move on to soon

Baboon is an animal quite close to us
Moon is an object of millions of sighs

Does a baboon yearn for the moon
And is the moon keen on baboon?

mimpromptu (#14) "I don't think I shall be dancing for neither Mandy, nor Gordon, nor Campbell, nor JJ"

Do people actually dance to Leonard Cohen? I can imagine his fans writhing about in quasi death-throws, but 'dance'?

With all the talk of a lost generation, could there now be a market for emo/goth lap-dancers? Maybe they could be deployed to eugenically shift the demographics a bit?

No.2. thegangofone wrote:
"For those far right posters who spread their pernicious lies on this page planned economies have never been able to set a price or function properly in the long run."


Modern Britain has always been at risk of a far left centralised economy, rather than a far right. You should fear socialism more than fascism. Then again, is there really any difference? Extreme left and extreme right will eventually merge with each other, as they are two ends of the same circle. Both extremes will eventually use violence to nullify their political rivals.

Extreme liberals use mental bullying, instead of physical violence......

SHAFT' WITH THEIR OWN CANARD.

Hi JJ. Just read your comment on Tuesday, about when NN used to ask us what we wanted. It reminded me of when we were told it was OUR ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ. Whatever happened to that? I remember the glee of Terry Wogan as he, daily, shafted them with their own canard.

I LOVE 'emo/goth lap dancers'! (:o)

DO WE NEED ANOTHER INSTITUTION TO HELP THE INSTITUTIONALISED?

Lizzie's Baboons - so close to man in many ways - do not go to school. They learn by observation of others, and shake out seniority along the way.

The British 'Ape confused by Language', doomed to be led by Ed Balls - a man with a TERRIFYING gleam in his eye - into 'education X 3-to the power of 'n' where 'n' expands to infinity, surely needs no further institutionalisation?

Better to develop each individual to full potential - like the baboons. Even a baboon can see that Balls is - well - balls. . .

'Tony Blair is a leading contender to become the first president of the EU and has the full backing of the British government for the job, the new Europe minister, Lady Kinnock, announced today.'

If the selection of a President sends key signals with regard to the future of the EU should there not have been a consultation process probably even a referendum?

#31 barriesingleton

"The British 'Ape confused by Language', doomed to be led by Ed Balls - a man with a TERRIFYING gleam in his eye - into 'education X 3-to the power of 'n' where 'n' expands to infinity, surely needs no further institutionalisation?"

The British National Party ... led by a man with a "TERRIFYING gleam in his eye" ... due apparently to a shotgun cartridge left in a fire - as you would do really.

The Nazis were led by Hitler and he seemed like a well balanced person to you.

To everybody else he was the psycho responsible for 50 million deaths or so excluding the Holocaust.

But on the other hand Ed Balls is probably going to be like the Blair-ite would be leaders somebody who dreams the dream until the next general election.

Democracy is quite good at getting rid of people with strange gleams in their eyes.

National Socialism by contrast only ever had Hitler ....

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#16 brossen99

"The whole of environment policy relating to climate change is obviously a massive investment scam"

Yes of course and the thousand or so scientists who subscribe to the science that there is climate change due to human impact via CO2 are all in cahoots.

If you are frothing at the mouth it may not be swine flu.

On the banking review has the failure to introduce the kind of genuine formal regulation the G20 implied been due to the presence of banker advisers in government behind the scenes? Does it raise questions about the role of special advisers and making a pal a Lord so he can be a Minister?

On the sad case of prominent human rights activist Natalia Estemirova is it now apparent that Putin is not perhaps the man with sole power beneath Medvedev?

Would it be in Putins interest to oversee the assassination of journalists and activists? He is very popular and does not need to fear critics.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev expressed "outrage" and ordered an inquiry - but will Putin be able to pressure the GRU?

If it was Ramzan Kadyrov who ordered the assassination he will take some toppling.

But then to get long run stability perhaps that is the path that they need to go down.

GO1 #35

The Corporate Nazi's have turned " science " into a quasi-religion these day's. It would be interesting to discover just how many of the alleged scientists who support man made global warming theory are actually in debt to an amount equivalent to their projected life income. Of course the " Banks " can turn round and say if you do not support the Corporate Multinational Cartel position on climate change we will call in the loans. ( this principle also applies to alleged " green " politicians )

As usual the trail invariably leads back to the stock market parasites looking to steal a " quick buck " from liquidating and then asset stripping any UK business made uneconomic by increased energy charges. Then the stock market parasites can make even more changing money exporting the assets to countries not so foolish enough to artificially inflate their own energy costs.

Whatever the scam the trail always leads back to the Corporate Nazi stock market parasites, take the offensive in Afghanistan for instance. I suspect that various troops have expended vastly more than the usual amount of ammo recently, perhaps explaining why mining stocks are doing so well over the past week. Politicians squealing for more helicopters even though they didn't help the Russians, potential for even more sad deaths if they can shoot down several men with one " good " shot. Perhaps the British are loosing the " hearts and minds " battle due to the probability that the CMC ( and their top executives ) have embezzled most of the reconstruction budget.

brossen99 (#37) Did you read the critique of ? Understandably they didn't like it very much. Techniqcally they've done nothing illegal it would seem, so it's worth a look given all the venal practices which have been permitted since deregulation in the interests of 'economic growth'.

#brossen 99

Can't see any problem with science being part of a new religion. The search is on for the Unified Field Theory, Theory of Everything etc. anyway



Anyway I've already got most of the way there, certainly further than Stephen Hawking has got. Copies available for p&p and printing cost.

Great Link JadedJean #38

Said link probably proves what I have been " going on about " for the past few years on here, especially the " Corporate Nazi / Corporate Multinational Cartel " angle more recently.

#37 brossen99

The new generation of UK climate models had a budget of £25 million, not a lot compared with the £billions involved down stream.

From an inside perspective they are skewed. The funding came from DEFRA via the NERC Natural Environment Research Council. There was resistance to fully representing human activity in them.

That would cross in to the remit of the SERC Social Economic Research Council. How can you research and include an area that is outside the remit of the funder? Cross disciplinary modelling owes as much to the funding as the science. The funding determines what can go in and what can't.

In addition though when we attended provisionally we were told we could set up the models anyway we wanted. Until the man from funder, DEFRA said the models had to be compatible with the existing Hadley Centre ones. Which pretty much sunk the work behind #39.

Think about climate change. All the so called solutions involve money. Tax, new cars, cap and trade, blah blah. All that contribute to economic growth by taking money from somewhere else and paying another tier of middle man traders, in correct ecological definition, parasites as they contribute nothing back to the host.

Think what climate change is supposed to be about. Too much carbon in the atmosphere and not locked back up in the assimilated processes of the planet's ecological life support systems.

So why isn't all the open spaces we have just left to revert back to a natural succession. Allowing trees to return to where they have been removed all over the world? That costs nothing.

Start looking around you. See what they do to an open space that could be collecting that carbon and locking it away. They pay someone to sit on a mower and cut it. That makes climate change worse, but it does contribute to increasing economic growth. Which is the priority, not life.

This is what happens when you get politicians and economists running planet's. Complete, stark, total, raving, insane, lunatic, madness.

Celtic Lion

KCL #39

Perhaps you are forgetting that all the major advances in science since at least Galileo have been won by defying organised religion of any kind. What hope would Darwin have had trying to get his theory of evolution off the ground if late Victorian science was as potentially quasi-religious as that of today ?

#brossen 99

This according to the independemt assessment, lawyers, consultants is probably on if not the most influencial articles of the 21st century. Most world leaders quote from it, climate change is a greater threat then terrorism. Al Gore used it when notified of his Nobel.

This is where the agenda of the 2005 G8 originated from climate change and Africa. Notice though from 2002, it warns of the credit crunch. This where Live 8 originated from.

This is what Blair and Bush discussed- an ironic joke. By the twists and turns of fate Blair and Bush didn't know they had been given an anti-Iraq war agenda.

Notice the author never ever said CO2 caused climate change. That would be unscientific in 2002, the phrase was "Now I understand it is widely acknowledged..." It was written tongue-in-cheek, jumping from Cabinet Office work and UN reports.

Notice it is a veiled critique of the corporate complex, economic growth at any cost, global culture. The UN notified the UK Government of these things. Somethings they took on board. Not the warning of the economic collapse.

Notice how it mentions floods, the UK Government had already been told about future catastrophic UK flooding and how to prevent it. Notice how it mentions fires they had alrady been told about catastrophic bush fires etc

Changing Futures 19/12/02 submission to UN report comissioned by the UK Government

This forum is supposedly directed at UK domestic policy, unfortunately domestic policy now seems international policy. The news last night was war on terrorism and war on Iraq.

Even the DEFRA website itself considers SD about UK and the world outside as a "WHOLE".

Recently I was invited to look at Guidence for Policy Makers and Regulatory Impact Assessment by the Cabinet Office Regulatory Impact Unit.

This document is available at the Cabinet Office RIU website.

Now in the consultation draft Annex 4 under Sustainable Development it says "One purpose of cost-benefit analysis is to ensure that in pursuing any single objective, we should not impose disproportionate costs elsewhere....the needs of the present may also result in costs to the environment or social welfare".

Now I understand it is widely acknowledged that CO2 emmisions from industrialised economic growth cause climatic change.

The principle stated in the Cabinet Office draft also being applicable to the global dynamic. Probably why there was a worldwide response to the US decision not to co-operate on Kyoto.

National economic policy not integrated with sustainable development analysis and goals imposes costs on the social and environmental systems of the planet.

A country such as the US as the biggest emitter of greenhouse costs presumably imposes the biggest individual costs on the social and environmental systems of the global dynamic.

Now a building could be destroyed and 3000 people lose their lives. A nuclear bomb has the the potential to kill a few million in a city.

Unfortunately these are insignificant compared to the most awesome tool of mass destruction. Economic growth not integrated with its cost burden on social and environmental systems at all levels of its implementation, local, national and international.

Its effects are indiscriminate drought, famine, flood, destruction of crops, fire. It is not millions, but 10's and 100's of millions who pay the price.

It has just been announced that we have had the 2nd hottest year on record globally, the hottest being 1998.

Coincidently we now have reports of the impending famine in Ethiopia due to drought. Millions of men, woman, children, families and animals just waiting to die.

Are these paying the cost of air conditioning in Houston, £158 billion of UK consumer credit, 12 lane interstate highways and congestion on the M6.

The UN wants US$340 million to deal with this disaster, I am sure somebody will supply the correct figure.

Now I have the draft UNEP IPCC Third Assessmet Report Summary for Policy Makers Climate Change 2001: Impacts, Adaption and Vulnerability (19 Feb 2001). Why it is the draft is another story.

Now table SPM-2 page 16 on Regional Adaptive Capacity and Key Concerns : Africa.

1) Adaptive capacity of human systems in Africa is low due to lack of economic resources and technology, and vulnerability high as a result of heavy reliance on rain-fed agriculture, frequent droughts and floods and poverty.

6) Increases in droughts, floods and other extreme events would add to stresses on water resources, food security, human health and infrastructures, and would constrain development in Africa.

Now off the coast of Africa in the ocean we have one of the biggest deployments of people and resources building up.

These resources might be going to be used to invade somewhere and kill people. These resources have been paid for out of economic growth which not being related or integrated with its cost burden on social and envirnonmental systems, from the literature I have read, has also killed people or will kill people. Probably those people waiting to die in nearby Ethiopia.

This is a sytem which appears to be going out of control with self feeding positive feedback mechanisms.

Now if we are talking war, and the governments want to do this for the reasons they are telling us. What is the best way of dealing with the situation.

As not many of us are top military strategists, we need to look at the situation how the probably the greatest military strategist in entire human history would have approached it, Alexander the Great.

Gordon Brown has a "war chest" of £1000 million ring fenced for war. If this situation was presented to Alexander what he probably would do is take 20% of this. £200 million and give it to the relief of Ethiopia.

Coincidently this is in the ball park of the figure the UN needs. This would be important in his overall strategy for the war on all fronts.

Tony Blair has also said he wants to do something about the open sore of Africa so this is the chance.

Use these resources to sort out the Ethiopian situation, start taking the tensions out of the global dynamic.

Personally I think it is a bit scummy that millions are people are waitng to die as a consequence of western economic policy. We have the resources to do something about the situation. As individuals we cannot have pride or respect for our country or society that lets this happen.

So what is the perception of the rest of the world to a situation where millions are waitng to die and nearby resources are being brought together to kill more. It just adds to global hatered, tension and escalation and detracts from the crucial fundamental central challenge that we must address, a sustainable future for all people and life on this planet.

What the greatest military strategist who ever lived earned was respect. Earn that respect give Ethiopia the money and the first battle of the war is won.

It all comes down to people are dying we can do something about it, so we should. The true message of Christmas is forgiveness, peace on earth and goodwill to ALL. War and killing play no part of the Christain faith, listen to the sermon on the mount. Neither do they play any part of Sustainable Development.

#42 Brossen

Just made a highlight to your post so it makes sense

"Perhaps you are forgetting that all the major advances in science since at least Galileo have been won by defying "ORGANISED" religion of any kind".

OK?

Just had a bit of a shock. Try this in Google

applied planetary engineering millennium dome

plenty there

Celtic Lion

#24 #26 Mimpromtu

Thank you. Only just read the second version been thinking about the first. But is not that what art is about.

The second is where I got, on reading the first. But you can click back on my posts from here and see that was where I was heading. The same psychic wave. I was just surfing another part.

You will have to excuse me. I flirt from the thermodynamics of double dip recessions to the Clangers. They all sit comfortably together in my base matrix construct of reality.

The wave will continue as long as we all carry on surfing.

"Charlie don't surf".

Celtic Lion

#44 Just had a bit of a shock. Try this in Google

applied planetary engineering millennium dome

plenty there

Blimey Leo, you're all over the place! Good luck! ; )

#46 Lizzy

[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

I wrote an article for you, re the cost of planetary management. Got up to make a cup of tea. The new lap top (without asking me) decided it would download some updates, then turned itself off to configure them. The naughty thing forgot to save my work and lost it.

The figure is a project magnitude of $13 trillion per year, using conventional assessment.

Leo

#47

mods are you really sure about 47. I have checked your email and the link is not broken.

It is to a You Tube Beach Boys song. There is no connection to me, there appears no copyright infingement, and no PDF.

#47 That was very kind of you King Lion, but would I have been able to understand it?! Hhhhmmmm there's no accounting for how a computer is going to work! ; )

And another question where on earth would the $13 trillion per year come from?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! : (

Hi
Just come from Headingley and the Rhino's unconvincing win without Sinfield, to notice Emo/Goth lapdancers post, Definitely feeling old as we never had them when I was a lad...but we made do..
Thank you.

#50 mid age stu

Really am so pleased that you brought up the subject of emo/goth lapdancers. I'd been contemplating all day.....

PS are you related to Disco Stu

#49 Ecolizzy

No problem. The world's arm industry cost's us $1 trillion per year. We just need to stop shooting, bombing and burning each other alive. And start living as one love one planet. Extra $trillion.

Munich Re is putting the cost of environmental disasters as $trillion (climate change alone). This will have to be covered in the insurance premiums, so we will we paying it anyway. As we are the first one, the arms industry. Instead of paying the costs we just use the money in prevention. Another £trillion.

two paragraphs and we have $2 trillion. Remember economics is all relative to which side of the fence you are on. If your house gets flooded that is a cost to you or your insurance company. But a benefit to the carpet fitter and the plasterer.

Brown and Darling have just got a trillion together for some crack pot scam they have thought up. If they can...

We find loads more by going through the global accounts and take out the dis-economies, that the book keepers have been hiding away. We will find trillions there.

Theres almost a trillion on the Heart of Gold. Barrie will explain.

/cult/hitchhikers/guide/trillian.shtml

More Shipbuilding for the Right Purpose. Stick that in google and follow all the way to where the comments come from. Piece by piece we reassemble the systems of the planet.

So what's the alternative, extinction of all higher life on the planet?

$13 trillion, a bargain

Celtic Lion

#51=#30
No relation to Disco Stu, but i did go to disco's before they turned them into Nightclubs...they used to use ultra-violet lamps to high-light the "Travolta type" white clothes, these lamps burn the retina's in your eyes and really give the bad monday morning feelings. TA.