³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ

The expenses saga - which should NOT be allowed to die out - is now entering the world of opportunism.

This is highlighted by David Cameron when he says that trust cannot be returned till a general election is held.

Mr Cameron, this is Hogwash. (and you can quote me on that)

A general election is a REALLY BAD IDEA

This is why:

I want to vote for Party A - I would NEVER Vote for Party B (I dont like their policies, etc)

However, my local sitting MP for Party A is one of those abusing the expenses system.

So, who do I vote for?

The solution is simple. Effective immediately (and it can be put into law overnight, if needed) we adopt a system where the local electorate can petition to FORCE a by election.

The local Labour/Liberal/Tory party should be "heavily persuaded" to drop their sitting MP as a candidate and adopt a new one.

The encumbered party can expect a good kicking to be honest, but at least it will be openly on the issue of dishonesty and greed and not pretending to be about policy.

Then we let the dust settle till next May and hold an election where POLICY is the issue and not expenses.

If we hold one now, most of us will feel we have gotten rid of one lot of crooks by electing in another lot - probably with a really low turnout.

Personally, were I the leader of a party, I would feel pretty ghastly at being voted into power in such away.

But then, I am not an arrogant, expenses guzzling MP.

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WE STILL HAVE TIME - GORDON WILL SEE TO THAT

Every constituency should identify a person of experience in the real world, one with honour and integrity (preferably reluctant) and have a whip round for £500. If we vote in enough independents, they can SPOIL PARTY GAMES from within the Westminster lie.

They can vote to vacate that tainted chamber and reconstruct the business of government in light of: (1) being 75% run by Europe (2) modern ways of conferencing and voting (3) absolute allegiance and duty to their constituency.

This would be a small step towards democracy. Civilisation must wait.

LESS THAN HALF A PERSONALITY = PARTY POLITICIAN(#1)

"Personally, were I the leader of a party, I would feel pretty ghastly at being voted into power in such away."

Take Blair as an example: An aspiring pop star, parachuted into safe-seat Sedgefield; only elected as a 'rosette stand' - elevated internally by doing the sort of things that please parties; he rose to PM and lied us into a war that will breed hate for centuries.

Anyone with half a personality, would not wish to be returned to
Westminster simply because they carried a rosette, to which a majority of locals have a Pavlovian response at the voting booth.

Let's have independent candidates with whole personalities rather than vacuous charisma. SPOIL PARTY GAMES

barrie (#3) "If we vote in enough independents, they can SPOIL PARTY GAMES from within the Westminster lie."

How many will be like Esther 'Sausages' Rantzen? Jane Hill gave her a stiff(ish) talking to on ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ News today - well done Jane.

In fact, will the Newsnight/³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ blogs get to our 'reluctant' revolutionaries? :-(

barrie (#4) "he rose to PM and lied us into a war that will breed hate for centuries."

On behalf of Israel, NYC and 'The Markets'. Don't forget that bit.

As someone with hepatitis C who has already had one new liver, which is currently being destroyed again by the virus, I entirely fail to see any difference between HIV and Hep C in terms of the need for compensation.
I have lost numbers of friends to both viruses.

Like HIV, HCV is a long term degenerative condition which is life threatening unless one is lucky enough to get a transplant. The symptoms of liver disease, extreme fatigue, loss of concentration, etcetera, make daily life difficult and troublesome.

People who were infected because of the incompetence of the Department of Health have an undeniable right to proper compensation. But of course delay will ensure that any eventual settlement is much cheaper as fewer people will be left alive.

#3Barrie
I have every respect for your ability to cut through the fog (of apes confused with language) and post structured (and witty) observations. However, the whole issue of democracy defies simple solutions.

Let's say for hypothesis only that perhaps me, you, and even JJ and gangofone reside in the same constituency: would we all agree on the best person(s) to select(relevant experience, track records, and what we might differently regard as integrity? Also, with JJ's scientific evidence that the country is becoming less smart (through the influences of dysgenics, TFRs and immigration, etc.) there will be many different views on what constitutes 'duty to constituency'. Your earlier plea for a minimum qualification to become a voter would need to be applied.

At the risk of repetition, I hold that race or IQ are not the prime causes of the differences and conflicts in our society, but huge (mainly imported)gulfs in values, arising from fundamentally different beliefs and cultures. If JJ's projections of the effects of dysgenics, TFI's and population growth are accurate, then some of us may not like the results of the selected candidate's allegiance and duty to our constituency.

I shall content myself with voting for one of the minor parties which, in the absence of proportional representation may well be a wasted protest vote. Plan 'B' is then to join the world's migrant hordes moving to what they see as offering a better way of life. In my case it will be to a 'less-developed' country, with a lower population density, less state interference in my liberty and less obsession with 'growth'. In my dotage my main interest is in the growth of my vegetable garden, and being able to find a warmer clime and a more pastoral lifestyle.

I'M IN ENOUGH TROUBLE ALREADY (#6)

You might say that JJ - I couldn't possibly comment. (;o)

As for Esther - she does not fit my brief. Getting in on a protest vote is not far from from being a safe-seat rosette; and getting in as a celeb is almost a 'Tony'.

DEMOCRACY AT ITS MOST INSIDIOUS (#7)

With you there Snoringmaid. Unfortunately you are just one vote and I don't look a bit like Joanna Lumley. I remember Sir Humphrey warning Hacker against anti-smoking measures, for economic reasons. Good luck.

PITCH AND PUTT POSTING (#8)

If I posted all the caveats that I have considered, before composing a salvo, my offerings would be rather long. You have spotted that I am partly amusing myself and partly (as I have admitted before) 'shouting in a bucket'. But I still play pitch-and-putt on holiday - not because I am any good, but to see if, by some fluke, the ball goes in the hole. Soon I shall hive insufficient marbles and/or volition to do much at all . . .

I agree with the newnight,this evening, Panelist this evening.It should be put out to the British public and should not be about journalists and politicians talking to one another.MP expenses should be put to the voting public.

My idea is to sack all the MP's; get rid of the House of Lords and the Palace of Westminster.They should all be investiagted by the Police for fraud.The National Government is not able to react to regional issues straight away.
The country should be Governed by Regional Assemblies,with Regional independant elected members.They could react a lot quicker to local issues.They should have a wage and no expenses.The major political parties at present would have no place in these new assemblies. Any existing MP's,family members, those related in any way, or those on any lists for pending MP candidature should never be allowed to stand in the New Assemblies.

It appears to me that these professional politicians are simply attempting to create a new set of rules to exploit. Just a suspicion - would having yet another 'independent body' mean the details of MPs expense claims would no longer be accessible under the FoI Act?

The most pertinent scrutiny is that of the public. All expenses, allowances and salary claimed by MPs, Lords and quango members should be published; after all it is only the public reaction to what has been revealed by the Telegraph that has focused politicians minds (or fears, I'm unsure which is better).

There is a certain irony in comparing the following, current, situations:
- politicians determination to keep secret from the public the details of how they spend public money;
- this government's determination to make the personal details of every child in Britain available on (the now live) ContactPoint to hundreds of thousands of people who do not need them, indeed, some of whom may pose a risk to previously safe children because of the details now available.

WHAT POSSESSED YOU NEWSNIGHT?

You 'illustrated' a dark tale of human depravity with a clip of a pyjama-clad boy being roused from his bed by an adult male hand. God forbid that you should get any award for such - but, perhaps, some just deserts?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

And so by pure coincidence it turns out that both Hoon and Purnell have by perhaps devious means avoided paying CGT on profits on the sale of homes. At least Blears is publically apologizing by paying said CGT but look at the potential corruption if certain corporate organizations had the info on them all along. Take regeneration policy for instance, its Blears who signs off all the big contracts whilst denying the opportunity for direct involvement by local small businesses.

Transport is wide open to fraudulent policy from spending on electronic technology like the proposed average speed cameras. Cutting the national speed limit is likely to deposit carbon in all car's exhaust manifold and therefore probably ensure that it fails the emissions test at an early age. I suspect that Average Speed cameras are just another false economic growth investment scam, perhaps the Telegraph should tell everyone where they put the money they avoided the CGT on.

Its a while ago now but I seem to remember a report about Tessa Jowell selling her house and putting all the proceeds into some unspecified Hedge Fund. Purnell was said to be renting recently ( lost deposit ) so perhaps he has done the same thing. And guess what his entire Welfare Reform policy was designed by a celebrity stock market parasite. How can any of them be trusted to enact any new laws or srutinize enactment of existing policy.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Voting

Be carefull what you Vote for... You wont GET It (get it)

Be carefull what you Pay for... You get what you Pay for (get it)

If you dont like something Dont buy it (get it)

You want/require me 2 pay/buy the Stench in Westminster

Want/Require all you like... from me you wont get it (GET IT)

Gurubear (posting 1) I couldn't agree more. As I blogged the other day, why have an election to put in another lot of different party MP's who have been at the trough but probably not been caught--yet!

The party system is dieing if not dead. The public have had enough of politicians and I speak as a Labour Party worker, local secretary and Cllr. In my area I can count on 3 activists and we three managed to buck the trend last year and got two Labour gains!! (Shades of Gideon and the drinking at the pool?)
Whenever the election comes we will have to re-build from the mess but first have MP's who WE pick and in whom WE trust. An election now with Cameron's lot in. Things can't be worse? Just watch these blogs in two year's time.

Quote for the Day
"What did we do with the trust of your vote? Hired a flunky to flush out the moat" - Carol Ann Duffy, the new Poet Laureate on the MPs' expenses scandal.

Here is a pome wot I rote, as Ernie Wise might have said. Quality, Beefy, quality.

Meanwhile, currently, in case the web team is interested:

Page not found

Unfortunately the following page was not available:
/blogs/newsnight/michaelcrick/2009/05/come_back_hezza_all_forgiven.html

Good Morning Madam how much for the Turds/hitS in the window ?

Good Morning Sir They would be about %90 of what you work for

OH! If you dont mind I'll Pass on that. I pass stuff like that every day
(in a downWard fashion)

Good Day 2 You

MORE ON ....CAREFUL WHAT YOU VOTE....WISH FOR

Well, it's a point of view.

Post Twenty 2 JJ

Stop Beating me up

Your Mode is Correct Saluting You Now

indignantindegene (#8) "If JJ's projections of the effects of dysgenics, TFI's and population growth are accurate, then some of us may not like the results of the selected candidate's allegiance and duty to our constituency."

If? If!! If???

Of course it's accurate - it's just descriptive. Why must it matter what some people like? In the end, the universal (male) franchise brought about in the late C19th by that anarchist Disraeli of all people, was compounded by extending it to all males and females in the early C20th. At the beginning of the C19th Britain's population was still only about 8 million (in 1600 it was just over 4 million; 1700=5 million; 1801=8 million; 1851=20 million; 1901=40 million; 1951=50 million; 1998=just over 57 million. Look what does. Which socio-economic groups worry most about planning for their kids, and which the least? Can one hope to get the long-term consequences across to short-term, impulsive, child-like people?

Liberal (anarchistic) democracy brings about its own demise by pandering ever more to the wants of those of child-like mentality.

Billbradbury Post 19,

I think the party system is far from dead. Having spent 30 years in media, I have learned that the only thing in this country with a long (albeit, highly selective) memory is the Media.

The story is beginning to show cracks at the moment, as the Telegraph, so desperate for sales, has been less than scrupulous over some of their more recent claims and are beginning to look like they are shovelling dirt rather than doing a public service. (Let's face it, they never were, this was about their falling newspaper sales)

Making sure there is a gap between this particular low point in political history and the general election will be good for democracy, but as the normal agenda asserts itself, and the Playground Bullies, sorry, MPs get back to the normal routine of publicly sneering, jeering and shouting at each other, this will get forgotten in the vast majority of constituencies.

The Media have a responsibility here too which they are unlikely to live up to. They must ensure that any election that includes the "honesty" vote is properly covered, but also that is not used to dominate the agenda.

More than ever, as time goes on, news coverage is sounding like Barrie above; lots of short, biting comments that offer nothing useful to the debate, and probably are not intended to do so.

This is the real threat to democracy - media power over the political agenda.

I first saw this in full throttle at the 97 election. I was more involved with news then. (even got to produce a certain Mr Paxman doing a sort of internal question time for an investment bank - nice chap, by the way.)

The problem was Martin bell. Well, to be fair, not the man himself; I fully understood what he did and why he chose to do it. Covering what he was up to in ousting the sitting MP for dishonesty was important. But I watched producers and editors chuck out far more important stories, or move them lower in the billing, just so they could cover this one story. It made better headlines and was a heck of a lot easier to cover.

If Esther Ranzen stood, it would be the same problem - she is more famous than the issue she is fighting. Actually, I think she would make a very good politician, I am just not certain that this is the best way to get elected.

It is only the voters, the people, that really make a country democratic, not the politicians or the system. But while we have a media who like to move the voters onto their agenda, the voters have not got their own hand firmly on the tiller of democracy - and I find that a worry.

Post 2four JJ

When I said/poking fingers at a laptop Stop Beating me up

PorKeys could of bean inVoLed.

Carry on/ the Motion/Soldier On/Keep it Up/Dont Stop/2 Give Up is Never an option

Post 2five Bollo

Kissy Kissy

Hold/Held 2 an AccCount/do the sums

Constipated Mathimatician eh Work it oot with a pencil

selling paper is 1 thing selling people down the river for profit is toTher

snp downgrades uk? with one reason the uncertainty of policy due to election? gilts drop presumably the bet being the uk will have to offer higher rates to attract loans?

the economics might force an election?

Readers may be interested to hear this, a re-working of the Beatles' 'Taxman' to be about the expenses fiasco.



Lyrics:

Let me tell you how it will be
With expenses claims on what seems right to me
Paid by the taxpayer! Yeah by the taxpayer!

I'll furnish my second home for free
Cos after all I'm your MP.
And you're the taxpayer! Yeah you're the taxpayer

If I have a castle you'll pay for my moat
If I fancy sailing you'll pay for my boat
If you question me I'll sit and gloat
I'll claim every penny, every shilling and groat
From you the taxpayer!

Don't ask me if it's within the rules (Ah ah Mr Cameron)
For years we've treated you all as fools (Ah ah Mr Brown)
And you're the taxpayer!
Yeah you're the taxpayer!

My advice to those who moan
Repay the mortgage on my non-existent loan
And you're working for no-one but me

(Based on George Harrison's original)

To save further embarrassment in the future could it not be accepted that the Queens Garden Party is for democratically elected politicians who are democratic and not fascist. At the end of the day why do they have to invite the BNP anyway? What will they do sue? Can they afford it? Are they going to be able to pay their election expenses? Lets hope not.

As somebody who would like an end to men in tights and social protocols (i.e. a republic with both houses elected) that distort real politics its madness to me. But I do respect the Queen and those that respect her. She shouldn't really have to put up with this.

#25 gurubear

"this was about their falling newspaper sales"

I am not a Torygraph fan but they went out and did something with risk that has served the public interest very well indeed. Would anybody else have done so? If yes then its not about falling sales and if no then they were perfectly correct to do what they did.

They have also been politically unbiased as the pond and duck island MPs cases show.

Well done the Torygraph, well done Rantzen and well done Lumley.

#16 brossen99
"How can any of them be trusted to enact any new laws or srutinize enactment of existing policy."

So we should trust the far right in the guise of the BNP instead? Not.

The nature of democracy is that it can renew itself and tyranny can not.

Gurubear (#25) "This is the real threat to democracy - media power over the political agenda."

Yes. Freedom of the press is not all that it's made out to be, nor is its control/management under some systems of democratic government.

Thanks for the sensible contribution.

#24 Jaded_Jean

"
Liberal (anarchistic) democracy brings about its own demise by pandering ever more to the wants of those of child-like mentality."

Yet nobody ever votes for the far right as time goes by. It looks as though the far right BNP will remain despised and irrelevant.

Democratic debate will lead to renewal where democracy hits problems but Hitler, race "realism", eugenics, planned economies and Holocaust "Agnosticism" will always belong to a nightmare period in the last century.

The BNP have a perfectly nice field in Derbyshire that they equip with a bouncey castle for their conference - so is that not enough? They have poetry reading, probably a Heck cow (Hitlers symbol of racial purity) and they are miles away from decent society. In all respects.

Enjoy.

Can the House of Commons committee interested in McBride not express concern about his wellbeing and ask for his attendance? Will it not speak volumes if Labour do not facilitate his location and communication with the committee?

barrie (#9) "I'M IN ENOUGH TROUBLE ALREADY (#6) You might say that JJ - I couldn't possibly comment. (;o)"

There's not much chance of change (let alone 'Concerted Indiscipline' - never mind revolution) if one is worried about getting into trouble, especially if it's the current rules which account for the trouble which we're already in ;-)

David Grossman's discovery that the HM Customs & Revenue booklet for MPs explicitly allows them to declare one home as a second home for capital gains tax purposes and a different home for their HofC 'Additional Cost
Allowance' begs more questions as he reports. Just why is Brown hanging
Blears out to dry on this issue yet rallying to the defence of Hoon and
Purnell? And which Ministers were involved in drafting this tax advice?

(As of 5 October 2008.)

Ministers working in HM Treasury:

Chancellor of the Exchequer and Second Lord of the Treasury The Rt Hon. Alistair Darling MP
Chief Secretary to the Treasury The Rt Hon. Yvette Cooper MP
Financial Secretary to the Treasury The Rt Hon. Stephen Timms MP
Minister of State Phil Woolas MP (Joint with ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Office)
Economic Secretary to the Treasury Ian Pearson MP (Joint with the DBERR)
Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury Angela Eagle MP
Financial Services Secretary The Rt Hon. The Lord Myners CBE
Other Ministers associated with HM Treasury:

Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury The Rt Hon. Gordon Brown MP
Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury and Chief Whip The Rt Hon. Nick Brown MP
Paymaster General Tessa Jowell MP

thegangofone (#32) "The nature of democracy is that it can renew itself and tyranny can not."

Please see the birth and death rates in 'tyrannical' pre 1991 , and the Iraqi death rate under Saddam Hussein compared to the freedom to be blown up by suicide bombers today.

PS. As the BNP is a legally constituted political party, being the liberal-democrat that you say you, why do you seek to ban it? Don't people have the right to choose? Or do you perhaps think people should only be able to choose one type of government?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Ok M8 u have near 2 CONvinced I will think/stink of the BNP GO1 thanx


knot a lot

1 party 1 thought 1 nothing 1 beer 1 oh dear 1 brain cell 1 arse 1 t sark 1 bike 1 bowel function 1 last straw 1 pair o underpants 1 grannie 1 idiot 1 remote control 1 cheese wrong 1 vest 1 colour 1 shoe 1 smegma 1 square o toilet paper 1 dagger 1 bladder 1 speaker 1 ashtray 1 dogend 1 way system cell 1 chair 1 knob 1 day sun 1 PAIR 1 spoon 1 o them 1 fart 1 teacher 1 note 1 teste 1 joke or 2 1 nasty word 1 sharp pen 1 buttock 1 plate 1 gene 1 watch 1 fork 1 bed 1 grave concern 1 cross 1 unedible 1 eatable 1 cat 1 anus 1 book 1 sock 1 madman 1 mad woman 1 mad you 1 apple 1 whyskey 1 1 top drawer 1 bench 1 glass 1 trick cyclist 1 film 1 phone 1 2 1 smell 1 cd 1 beer 1 repeat 1 record stuck 1 can 1 cant 1 box 1 set o bagpipes 1 beutIfull 1 gun 1 rifle 1 fax 1 fact 1 story morning glory 1 hard 1 soft 1 1 1 won 1 nothing 1 bell 1 ring 1 burst 1 jonnie 1 rubber 1 life

get one

(if u can)

G01 #32

Why do you always have to twist everything posters say to imply that they would support a " far right " BNP UK government. The BNP are the nuclear option as far as protest voting goes at the forthcoming EU elections. People could vote for the alleged socialist Greens but that lends credibility to the eco-fascists who are ever further to the right than the BNP in real terms.

Making extra money on the side by any means is all part of the Corporate Nazi ideology that all mainstream politicians ( including UKIP ) subscribe to. The fact that mainstream politicians have put so much effort into attempting to dissuade the people from voting BNP is probably the best reason to vote BNP at the EU elections. Perhaps the most effective way to " spoil party games " ( barrie take note ), at least temporarily.

It would appear that the establishment is now so desperate to stop people voting BNP that some have resorted to hiring gangs of Anti BNP balaclava wearing thugs to blitz areas where BNP support appears strong. This happened recently in the Irwell Riverside ( Salford ) by election ( being held today ), the BNP have got an excellent non racist candidate standing, ( local ex army lad ).

It is alleged that the trade unions are behind the bully boy tactics, at least funding it and it was said to be linked to one of the other candidates standing. The trade unions are desperate to stick with the current Corporate Nazi system as their power base relies on large multinational corporations whatever the union rhetoric.

#25 Gurubear

Good point about the media. It is my opinion we can only have a workable democracy if the electorate are informed enough (assuming they care) to decide on issues.

I find in areas that I do know a certain amount about the media are invariably wrong in what they present as fact or truth. They present gossip, urban myths or misguided opinion as some absolute reality. Thus misinforming the electorate. Invariably the misinformation is also the Government line. Or on a broader stage the narrow perspective of established political doctrine. Without questions the whys of why this is only way to do things.

I can only presume in other areas that I have no deeper knowledge of the same is done, that I may be unaware of.

People may think they are free to do and go where ever they want. But if they are just passengers on a cruise ship they only end up where the captain government decides they are going. Their free will only exists relative to the direction of the ship.

But as you point out the hand on the tiller is that of the media. The media, seemingly so absorbed in looking at their own reflection, have not noticed the iceberg getting closer.

Celtic Lion

Tuesdays blog #46

Hi Steve

I really like your suggestions on reforming the House of Parliament. I think it would bring significant improvements to our democracy if lawmakers introduce legislations that give people the power to recall their MPs, and impeach ministers for conducts that grossly breach the public trust, things like going back on election manifesto promises as you rightly mentioned about Brown and Clegg on the Lisbon treaty. This will deter civil servants from fiddling with the system for personal gains, as the people get to make their own judgments based on the circumstances of individual cases. While I agree with the view there needs to be a new set of rules on MP expenses, I suspect any future systems established on a general principle could still be subject to abuse, especially when we have members of the parliament coming from a legal background and have practiced law for a living - finding loopholes to exonerate oneself out of a tricky situation is what they do best. I say this, because as rotten as the old system was, I was surprised at the masterful and creative ways some MPs presented their financial arrangements/cases in a way that avoids tax and maximizes allowances, while staying 100% within the rules. It is unclear whether they will ever need to pay back a significant sum, aside from some petty cash like boiler, trouser press and cleaning bills.==

Back to my point, a proper mandate from the electorate should be based on the condition that the constituents can hold their ministers to account all the time and not just during election. This includes reserving the right to deselect their party candidates and force a by-election, if necessary. It would put a stop to the odd symptom of collective unaccountability prevalent in the current Labour government minister no longer resigns for their ill judgments when things go wrong, and sorry has become the cheapest word.

dAllan169 (#40) You're coming across a bit schizophrenic today. Is all well?

Well Enough JJ stop thrashing me AYE love You as well you no.

HANGING HAZEL OUT TO DRY (#37)

Surely Brown went off the Tantrum Scale when the Lollypop Lady came out with that "YouTube if you want to" jibe, in a newspaper? That, I suspect, would be why she is desiccating as we blog.

And let's not forget that Pollyanna Blears will STILL be convinced she has a good chance of being PM. And at 4.00am, poor James Gordon, his paranoia out of control (just like all those nutty leaders from history) might actually believe she could take his throne.

It is no wonder Westminster presided over Tony's War, Broke Britain, EU submission and a host of other bad decisions - their minds were ALWAYS ON OTHER THINGS.

Gurubear-You worry me! When I find myself agreeing withwhat someone says I begin to question whether I (you) are right. The media now controls public opinion and "none of us not wishing to appear a fool" as Hans Anderson says, we go along with it.
I might bump into Hazel B tonight as she often frequents the boozer where I drink on a Thursday. Look how the media are hounding her in order to move another minister out. Whether she deserves it or not is another debate, but it demonstrates the media power. They won't give up until she goes then they move on like a pack of wolves to another victim. We regard it as a spectator sport!!

THE ANIMAL INSTINCT TO DRIVE OUT THE DROSS (#47)

When I was at school, most masters were severely lacking in wholeness of being (some, even, wholesomeness ITSELF). Two outcomes were apparent: Some resorted to absolute oppression, as defence against the boys, while the less well-defended, WE set out to destroy. THEN THERE WERE A VERY FEW WHO DREW NO ATTACK, AND NEEDED NO DEFENCE. Such people should govern Britain. They are, quietly and competently, out there.

There is a lot of similarity between the institutions of Parliament and school - I don't need to elaborate. Suffice it to say each might draw 'their own' for similar reasons. Could this underlie their hounding to destruction, by the mob?

Given the demographics #5 and recent history (domestic and foreign), the risk was high.

Enter Shikari theres a caper there.... sumwhere Oasis call the bus

#48 Barrie

"THEN THERE WERE A VERY FEW WHO DREW NO ATTACK, AND NEEDED NO DEFENCE. Such people should govern Britain. They are, quietly and competently, out there."

Unfortunately once out of the classroom situation the dynamic changes. Those who possess quiet competence, or respect for no obvious reason, then become the hunted.

They are the ones driven out by those who command no respect. For by driving out the datum of quality, their measure of incompetence can no longer be judged.

Celtic Lion

dallan169

in #50 sumwhere OASIS

in #40 (what's the) STORY MORNING GLORY

Are there points or prizes?

Celtic Lion

#50 dAllan169



Celtic Lion

Keltic Panther Liquid/Quid

GOLD

I thank You

Celtic Lion There will (your or Mine) Allways be a Caper and A Prize

Yours Aye

#50-#55 Presumably a Celtic thing?

Can people outside Scotland vote for the SNP ;-)

#56 JJ

Quite bizarre in England mention of BNP and it's all shock horror.
While in Scotland mention SNP and it's just part of the furniture.

We don't really have BNP here, I wonder why?

SNP are still politicians. They are not unfortunately some mystical force of wisdom and integrity taking us forward to a golden age of global harmony. Barrie would recognise them as rosette stands.

Celtic Lion

For dAllan169 and JJ



Celtic Lion

KingCelticLion (#57) "Quite bizarre in England mention of BNP and it's all shock horror. While in Scotland mention SNP and it's just part of the furniture."

Newsnight should have Nick Griffin and the CofE clergy on, and have Paxman, Esler or Sopel ask some direct questions in response to the assertions of the CofE as it seems to me that a bit of smearing may be going on. The 1971 Immigration Act allows for voluntary repatriation, and there are ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Office schemes as it is. Where is the racism in BNP policies? Racism is proscribed by UK an EU law.