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Could Georgia prove not to be the start of a cold war but the end of cold war tactics in favour of reasoned debate?

I am still concerned about the possibilities of conflict in Ukraine. Also Saakashvili appears to be being rewarded by Nato for killing a lot of Russian civilians, not a great idea in my world. Cheney seems to be following an out of date path with his rhetoric - but then he is not going to be there much longer.

But whilst many have said Russia did not care what the world thought does the recent Putin interview contradict that? They seem to be gearing up to fight the propaganda and engaging with the Western media.

Surely that can only be a good thing if the real facts emerge from both sides?

It's Friday. And life is already too short.

Might I pass on this as an example of more balanced political discussion?:

1. Jihadis Discuss Means of Poisoning the Water Supply of Denmark and Great Britain

2.Google's IP anonymization fails to anonymize

...After nine months, the company has confirmed with The Reg, Google will "change some of the bits" in the user IPs stored in its server logs. But as the plan stands now, it will leave cookie data alone.

This means the missing bits are easily retrieved.....

Why not get the UKHead PR to explain why anonymise means something different at google?

3. Why fraudsters in the UK are lucky. Why UK is the first choice for organised crime. How the UK Govt has overseen nearly 100% increase in the number of known organised crime gangs.

Surely a Minister would welcome a chance to bask in this achievement?

I am curious that my #1 got bashed as all I said was its a good thing that the Russians are trying to engage with reasoned argument rather than the old Cold War approach that everybody said was emerging after Georgia.

Perhaps therefore when Putin tries to engage directly with the West as per his recent article that means the old Cold War approach is in fact dead and not re-emerging as the media have suggested.

I have not read the article and do not endorse the Russian stance in Chechnya.

But personally I prefer engagement to Cold War rhetoric and propaganda.

thegangofone (#4) "But personally I prefer engagement to Cold War rhetoric and propaganda."

So do most rational people, but chutzpah masquerading as diplomacy.

NOMENCLATURE (nod to JJ)

Chutzpah Miliband and his brother Limited Ed.

And for everything else there's Dave.

I suspect that Newsnight presenters and producers consider members of Trade Unions to be too " common " to take an interest in their programme. Perhaps this is why there has been scant coverage of this years TUC conference despite the fact that they are now in almost complete control of Labour's purse strings.

Perhaps its a really good reason to ignore prospective policies like increasing the top rate of Income Tax in the hope that it might go away. Newsnight staff are hardly likely to give coverage which could make them appear like turkeys voting for Christmas.

Similarly opposition to the proposed Welfare reforms, these do not apply to ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ employee's as they probably have their own generous cast iron early retirement pension if they become ill and have to give up work.

a report on 5 drive has the energy companies raiding direct debits by up to 200% when the price increases were only 40%.

is the more money for us brigade out of control?

It doesn't really matter who is the leader, but Labour definitely and urgently need a " new narrative ". A good start would be to ditch all the Corporate Nazi leaning policies in the pipeline such as ID cards, Bin tax and Toll roads.

It would appear that Corporate Nazi Purnell and the purple Tories are about to steal the virtual 100 grand all working people currently have in the " bank " represented by Incapacity Benefit. I suspect that the average brain dead ten bob fat cats have not noticed this useful stake all working people have in their country. Removing the right to claim Incapacity Benefit without a substantial cut in NI contributions is the equivalent of a basic rate income tax increase.

Perhaps when the truth comes out about this and other potential Kamikaze policies Labour can reform itself and at least stand a sporting chance of winning the next general election. If no change in direction is forthcoming perhaps the trade unions should put their money where their mouth is and withdraw funding from the Labour party.

Perhaps we need a completely new political party based on the true British principles of The Commonwealth Party in World War 2.

PRODUCT AVERSION POLITICS

Brossen99 (#9) Every time you use the term 'nazi' (whether it's in the context of corporate or not, and even if you mean something else), others tacitly parse it so as to render the politics of National Socialism (e.g. Old Labour or let's call it welfare-statism), less palatable. It's effectively the reverse of positive product-placement or endorsement, i.e. a PR product-aversion technique. Surreptitiously, the Holocaust industry works to reinforce the message of free-market Liberal-Democracy (see how the Socialist (Trotskyite) International exploits this to its own ends).

JJ # 10

It is not a case of university based politics theory but most people associate the Nazi's under the control of Hitler with swinging penalties for minor technical offences like for example two years jail for listening to foreign broadcasts. The fact is that Hitler's solution to the disabled was to quietly exterminate them and the same principle seems to apply to today's " Corporate Nazi's " ( an exact mirror image of Hitler's fundamentalist Nazis ). No need for concentration camps, its more cost effective to starve and freeze the " economically inactive " to death in their own homes by placing them of JSA with no fair chance of future employment. How many low income people will die due to cold and malnutrition caused by inflated prices this winter ?

There are plenty of nasty vindictive rich journalist people out there like Mathew Parris who recently advocated that Labour should dump " compassion " and called for spy in the sky road charging. Its the perfect plan to restrict freedom of movement and keep the poor in the dark ready for total enslavement to the Banks. The smoking ban has ensured the closure of many local pubs so no prospect of citizen interaction there, the racing pigeon, the last " secret " non interceptable method of national communication under threat from protected Hawks and the threat of rates on lofts.

That is not to say that " Nazi Germany " was all bad, in fact it worked wonders with its economy creating useful work for the unemployed masses building an infrastructure which is just as useful today, on the evidence they had the consistently fastest steam locomotive in the world. Without interference from Hitler it is probable that they would have won the war, the Yanks would probably have stayed out if Hitler had not declared war on them. ( I suppose that they may have come in eventually in order to secure their British debts ) The Corporate Nazi plan to turn half the population into stock market parasites with the rest on minimum wage in McDonalds paying private tax on bank loans looks pretty frayed at the edges at present.

Fundamentalism is dangerous whether it be eco-fascists, Muslims or alleged " Christian " neocons, our welfare state is the latest probable casualty even though the evidence shows that the " British " never really " won " any major battles in WW2 before the Beveridge report. It all about looking around for best practice, both the " left " and " right " have reasonable ideas, the trouble is that if either win power we are left with the same old problems not real progress towards true freedom.

JJ # 10 try again amended

It is not a case of university based politics theory but most people associate the Nazi's under the control of Hitler with swinging penalties for minor technical offences like for example two years jail for listening to foreign broadcasts. The fact is that Hitler's solution to the disabled was to quietly exterminate them ( until the church stepped in ) and the same principle seems to apply to today's " Corporate Nazi's " ( an exact mirror image of Hitler's fundamentalist Nazis ). No need for concentration camps, its more cost effective to starve and freeze the " economically inactive " to death in their own homes by placing them of JSA with no fair chance of future employment. How many low income people could die due to cold and malnutrition caused by speculator inflated prices this winter ?

There are plenty of nasty vindictive high profile rich journalist people out there, one recently advocated that Labour should dump " compassion " and called for spy in the sky road charging. Its the perfect corporate plan to restrict freedom of movement and keep the poor in the dark ready for total enslavement to the Banks. The smoking ban has ensured the closure of many local pubs so no prospect of citizen interaction there, the racing pigeon, the last " secret " non interceptable method of private national communication under threat from protected Hawks and the threat of rates on lofts.

That is not to say that " Nazi Germany " was all bad, in fact it worked wonders with its economy creating useful work for the unemployed masses building an infrastructure which is just as useful today, on the evidence they had the consistently fastest steam locomotive in the world. Without interference from Hitler it is probable that they would have won the war, the Yanks would probably have stayed out if Hitler had not declared war on them. ( I suppose that they may have come in eventually in order to secure their British debts ) The Corporate Nazi plan to turn half the population into stock market parasites with the rest on minimum wage paying private tax on bank loans looks pretty frayed at the edges at present.

Fundamentalism is dangerous whether it be eco-fascists, Muslims or alleged " Christian " neocons, our welfare state is the latest probable casualty even though the evidence shows that the " British " never really " won " any major battles in WW2 before the Beveridge report.

It all about looking around for best practice, both the " left " and " right " have reasonable ideas, the trouble is that if either win power we are left with the same old problems not real progress towards true freedom. Beware of alleged unintended consequences.

GIVING NATIONAL SOCIALISM A BAD NAME (IN PURSUIT OF DE-REGULATION/ANARCHISM)

Brossen99 (#12) be that as it may, my point was designed to stimulate a little thought (and possibly talk) about the practicalities of political conditioning/indoctrination and how this is reinforced, often quite inadvertently.

Take your post - hypothetically, what if much that's been taken for granted as the evils of German National Socialism or Stalinist Socialism in One Country turned out to be allied propaganda? If the alleged horrors were in fact intrinsic properties of those political systems, would one not expect to find them today in China given that their is largely the 1936 Stalinist constitution of the USSR?

If all the talk of China's 'Human Rights' violations is not in fact what it seems, but just the efforts of Liberal-Democracies to discredit/undermine a planned (National-Socialist) or command, economy, would that not suggest that what Liberal-Democracies endeavour to reinforce, both domestically and abroad (through vilification of 'nazism') is anarchism, i.e de-regulation, the very sort of behaviour which led to the and more recent disasters which one might argue came about through the exact opposite of the close regulation which Germany implemented in the 1930s to try to drag the country out of anarchism.

By referring to de-regulated corporations as 'Nazi' one risks giving the very political systems (e.g Old Labour) which might control such behaviour bad names, which is, I suggest, exactly what the anarchists/de-regulationists want.

Finally, as I see it 'spy-in-the-sky' technology (like so much else) is primarily about cutting Public Sector costs, i.e reducing personnel costs/pensions in the Public Services. There is very liitle which is either national or socialist about New Labour, but the victim will be Old Labour's future, and the beneficiaries will be the (neo-)Conservatives who couldn't care less what they brand their party as (e.g. New Labour), so long as it doesn't project Old Labourite values of national socialism.

forward JJ It would appear that the youth of today are indoctrinated to worship " brand loyalty ", " celebrity " and the accumulation of almost impossible to repay debt to the " banks ", unavoidable if you aspire go to University. Everybody is encouraged to be faithful ten bob fat cats and wallow in ( borrow against ) the false money generated by house price inflation. Now once left wing Blunket floats the idea that the old age pension be abolished and people forced to rely on " equity release " from the theoretical ( current false ) value of their home. Its all reinforced by a mostly right wing press, but the wheels are now starting to come off the corporate illusion and unless some people come forward with a practical alternative the result will be total anarchy. The wealthy eco-fascists had spotted this trend would happen if they ever got influence over government policy which is why they have striven to ethnically cleanse low income people from rural areas which could remain relatively stable or at least easy to defend. As for Spy in the Sky road charging technology its just another massively expensive and needlessly complicated IT project for the stock market " tech sector " to parasite on, its all potential false economic growth which increases the divide between rich and poor. It is perhaps hardly surprising to find that Graham Stringer is one of the current Labour rebels calling for a leadership election, one of his main bones of contention is the proposed Manchester congestion charge. New investment in the infrastructure is tied to a road pricing plan, which even without actual Spy in the Sky (overhead gantries with simple electronic tags for vehicles ) will cost billions to introduce and maintain. As with most government projects under PFI its just a virtual welfare state for the stock market parasites, now even the Tories are suggesting investment in " new schools " even though the actual educational benefits could be marginal. If " Teflon Trish " Hewitt can't bring herself to sell current Labour policy, ( I believe that she has an engineering educational background, not the usual politics /economics wonks ) the party is in pretty deep trouble. Its a bit of a pain really, some of what Labour has done is quite sensible and at the moment a strong government is needed to control greedy barristers on virtual strike because legal aid has been capped at 90 quid and hour. It looks like Brown was forced to sell out over the energy company question. Perhaps China ( or even Putin's Russia ) is a good example to follow apart from the perhaps needless pollution problems, its mix of state heavy industry and emerging small scale private enterprise appear to be improving their average citizens standard of living. As always the problem is corruption, and lets face it there is plenty of hidden corruption in Britain. If you want to talk without the blog filter you can get me @ [Personal details removed by Moderator]

forward JJ try again

It would appear that the youth of today are indoctrinated to worship " brand loyalty ", " celebrity " and the accumulation of almost impossible to repay debt to the " banks ", unavoidable if you aspire go to University. Everybody is encouraged to be faithful ten bob fat cats and wallow in ( borrow against ) the false money generated by house price inflation. Now a once left wing ex-minister floats the idea that the old age pension be abolished and people forced to rely on " equity release " from the theoretical ( current false ) value of their home. Its all reinforced by a mostly right wing press, but the wheels are now starting to come off the corporate illusion and unless some people come forward with a practical alternative the result could be total anarchy. The wealthy eco-fascists had spotted this trend would happen if they ever got influence over government policy which is why they have striven to ethnically cleanse low income people from rural areas which could remain relatively stable or at least easy to defend.

As for Spy in the Sky road charging technology its just another massively expensive and needlessly complicated IT project for the stock market " tech sector " to parasite on, its all potential false economic growth which increases the divide between rich and poor. It is perhaps hardly surprising to find that Graham Stringer is one of the current Labour rebels calling for a leadership election, one of his main bones of contention is the proposed Manchester congestion charge. New investment in the infrastructure is tied to a road pricing plan, which even without actual satellite Spy in the Sky (overhead gantries with simple electronic tags for vehicles ) will cost billions to introduce and maintain. As with most government projects under PFI its just a virtual welfare state for the stock market parasites, now even the Tories are suggesting investment in " new schools " even though the actual educational benefits could be marginal.

If " Teflon Trish " can't bring herself to sell current Labour policy, ( I believe that she has an engineering educational background, not the usual politics /economics ) the party is in pretty deep trouble. Its a bit of a pain really, some of what Labour has done is quite sensible and at the moment a strong government is needed to control perhaps greedy barristers on virtual strike because legal aid has been capped at 90 quid and hour. It looks like Brown was forced to sell out over the energy company question.

Perhaps China is a good example to follow apart from the perhaps needless pollution problems, its mix of state heavy industry and emerging small scale private enterprise appear to be improving their average citizens standard of living. As always the problem is corruption, and lets face it there is plenty of hidden corruption in Britain.

brossen99 (#15) Nice post.

There will always be crime and but we should remember that China has 1,400,000,000 people to manage, 10x that of Russia and over 20x that of the UK population, and people fail to deliver sometimes (as 'Stalin said' towards the end of the above speech when he was, ironically, trying to purge the party of Bolsheviks/Trotskyites (see the ) because they are not omnipotent/omniscient, just human.

As a follow-up to what I posted earlier, there are parts of which seem, to e at least, eerily familiar given our present socio-economic predicament. The German NSDAP clearly weren't too fond of those you refer to as 'corporate nazis'.

JJ # 16

Neat links !