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Why are we still listening to the has-been Livingstone. He did his damage, he is not wanted, he is out. Why is Newsnight dredging him up?

How can one "debate" the finding of any opinion poll?

The poll may have results. Those result may show the status of opinion among the uninformed.

What is to debate except the methodology of the poll?

Ah, perhaps it is to be an excuse to obtain opinion on views expressed by public opinion?

Can anyone see why such an approach is a bit bonkers?

DAWKINS GOD TERROR

Outwardly Richard Dawkins appears to be desperate to save others from their false beliefs. However, it seems increasingly apparent that he is trying to rid HIMSELF of a tin tied to his tail; a can of worms labelled
'He just might exist, and no Dawkins can prove otherwise'. Such a shame that this pillar of Science is so vulnerably human!

I have to say I find it ironic and quite funny that Richard Dawkins has turned his atheism into a religion he is preaching as hard and with as many cuts to the truth as any religious zealot.

For him it has transcended his scientific knowledge and he has become a the atheist equivilent of an evangelist missionary to proclaim to the world that there is no god, and secondly to ridicule anyone with a belief.

There is no reason why a scientist cannot believe in the existence of God, nothing from science can disprove a God, just as those who are religious cannot prove on exists. Believe what you want to believe, and stop trying to denigrate others for their beliefs.

So very sad, no end credit from Peter Barron the end of a ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ era !

x

Gavins opening intro should have been "distinguished guests....and red Ken".
Kens comments about China overtaking the USA as the next economic super power was classic Ken speak; talking utter nonsense.
Why do we have to overly judge this communist country. The human rights issue regarding the way the Chinese regime treats its prisoners for example and the way we are always up in arms about it really gets me all wound up. They execute criminals.....good! we could do with that over here. No religious freedoms...good! because we all know where religion gets us, and it ain't harmony but division and strife. By all means cherish your beliefs but don't share them with the rest of us is my take on religion and the Chinese Governing hierarchy knows full well what would happen if different religions were allowed to flourish under one roof; i think they've seen the fireworks before.

Since when have we been the bench mark for how a country should conduct and govern itself? that 'holier than thou' approach needs to be dropped by the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ. I don't recall any history lesson or book that proved we were perfect in everyway in our evolution as a nation state and we are certainly not perfect at present.
One thing for certain, if China became more like the west; some form of commie-democracy perhaps.. they would probably be an even bigger menace to the rest of us.

When we finally host the Olympics in 2012 maybe the Chinese can lecture us and tell us where we are going wrong or how we can for example-improve the safety of our citizens; with a more effective judicial system perhaps... i'll be all ears if they wan't to give us some pointers in 2012. Maybe we can learn something from the chinese.

Top of the chinese lecture list to Great Britain 2012:
1: Get rid of shami and Liberty.
2:Remove all Playstations from prison cells.
3: Jimmy Carr's not funny...get him off your screens.
(8 out of 10 cats..come on! did anybody actually watch that?)

#6

#6 should read an informative book called:
"Prisoner of Mao".

It is the true story of a political prisoner and the prison system.

It was a time of famine and the details connected with that distract from the real story of interest:

How behavioural reform was accomplished- really a story that would interest solid citizens of the right.

During 2012 Olympics the Chinese, and every other world media outlet, should highlight the families and businesses that were forced to move from the London Olympic site even though they'd been there for decades. They could highlight the hypocrisy involved in ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ making a song and dance about moving Chinese who were in the way but ignoring the plight of Londoners who were in the way. I hope they will also feature stories about those protection racketeers who extorted a massively inflated price for the land.
Perhaps they could organise a demonstration or two. It doesn't have to be large. The ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ always settles for minute numbers if the cause is one they're pushing.
And London is absolutely chock-a-block with misfits and malcontents. The Chinese should interview them daily to give the impression that their views are universally held by the entire population.
(I have to admit I didn't see Newsnight last night. As soon as I saw Ken sitting there I realised it wasn't going to be very serious.)

thecookieducker (#6) Whilst I'd echo most of what you said above, this bit puzzled me: "Kens comments about China overtaking the USA as the next economic super power was classic Ken speak; talking utter nonsense."

Is he? As a consequence of the way that China's population growth is being eugenically managed in contrast to the way that the USA's is dysgenically headed (see ETS Feb '07), many people, aside from Ken, think that the correlation between mean IQ and GDP makes it inevitable that China will overtake the USA, and as you probably know, China comes a close second to Japan in having accumulated a large amount of US debt. They can seriously hurt the USA.






GDP estimates (CIA)
USA (2007): $13.84 trillion/growth= 2.2%
PRC (2007): $ 6.99 trillion/growth=11.4%

"we've commissioned an opinion poll showing how China is regarded"

Why? Truth is not determined by popular consensus! Use of opinion polls fo such purposes just makes Newsnight appear incompetent. Why didn't you just ask experts on China?

This special appeared to be pitched at a Key Stage 2 ability level audience with lots of enthusiastic, animated kids TV programme presenters presumably to keep Special Needs viewers' attention?

Newsnight should be evidence driven, not opinion driven.

Given that the practice of abortion as a means of sex selection in both China and India is rife, to the extent that there are already 100 million missing girls, I think it's most likely that in 25 years time lots of 'clever' men will be looking at each other in a perplexed fashion wondering whether it was such a good idea.

jadedjean 10:

Kens time frame of a decade is way to optimistic (unrealistic). What feeds the growth of China is the wealth of the west and especially the USA; China is the production line for the consumer hungry West. The stalling economy of Europe/US will in turn reduce the growth in the GDP of China and no amount of investment for raw materials from the African continent with its slow developing market therein be any compensation for its inevitable economic slow-down. Nothing dramatic, just a period of GDP growth platue before a dip. The market place is saturated with cheap China goods and there is only so many flat screens, digi cameras ect ect anyone can buy. Belts are a tightening...anyhow, Ken could have qualified his comment and maybe made his statement more credible with the inclusion that- given certain conditions and maybe double his time frame of his original 10yrs- well i might not have pulled him up on it.

I understand where you are coming from in your second paragraph:

"As a consequence of the way that China's population growth is being eugenically managed in contrast to the way that the USA's is dysgenically headed (see ETS Feb '07), many people, aside from Ken, think that the correlation between mean IQ and GDP makes it inevitable that China will overtake the USA"

My semi-ignorance on the subject does not help but- Morally and intellectually i believe China is way ahead of the US, even with all of its imperfections. Your eugenic take on the subject is interesting....i had not viewed it from that perspective before. I Am enlightened.

I have always rather liked Ken Livingstone as a person. He is always polite never loses his temper and a good loser, unfortunately I think his politics STINK.
I think we should stop worrying about the Chinese and what they are up to but concern ourselves with what the Russians are doing, but again keep our nose out of something we cannot possibly solve.
Righrhon