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You will get no sense out of Labour MP's as they are all now in holiday mood. As a Labour member we are stuck with Brown for at least until the Conference season.

We are in a mess with no solution apart from mass suicide! I am reminded of the Life of Brian Suicide squad coming to the rescue of Brown.
Best of luck in trying to get any Labour politican to make sense.

Unrelated, apols, but just came across this - thought it worth sharing:



Some links to the original story:

I'm very interested in Salman Rushdie's views on Islam. In particular, what does he think it the main cause of extremism in the world today, and is any one particular country the source of such extremism?

Furthermore, there seems to be a feeling that in the UK, the media and government goes out of its way to avoid offending Muslims. For example, many European paper published the Allah cartoons, but none in the UK. Also, there have been several cases of legal action over muslim dress vs. school uniforms.

Does Mr. Rushdie think that in the UK we should try and avoid offending Muslims in order to get better social cohesion, or does he think that pandering to Muslims will lead to more demands from hard-line Muslims?

On Labour is it worth asking how bad is bad? To me it looks like watching a cartoon character who has run off a cliff and now realises the only way is down. They have massive debts, problems with the Unions, they are imploding in the polls and are short on activists.

If Cameron reached an electoral deal with the Lib Dems for fairer voting then Labour could be virtually wiped out. In other words they are there for the taking.

Old Labour and New Labour to then fight for the right to own the debt. I know Billbradbury does not like electoral change, preferring 18 years of opposition by the way.

In fairness its not just Gordon - the rot had set well in under Blair but the leadership would not change direction. 10p is just a symbol.

I don't believe "the contenders" are not positioning themselves. It could be said to be next to the firing squad.

'THE LABOUR STORY' ('What are they really up to?')

You mean you still don't know Dan? Are you sitting comfortably?

Politicians are about power. Rule one is: ACQUIRE POWER. This applies to the individual seeking become an MP, it also applies to the party seeking an election win.
ALL ELSE IS SECONDARY TO POWER.
Rule two is: HOLD ON TO POWER.
Politics is amoral at best and immoral, as deemed expedient, in the pursuit of power.
(Small wonder so many who train in law, end up in politics.)
Rule three is: SEEK ADVANCEMENT/HIGH OFFICE/LEGACY - the latter being ANYTHING with your name on it, regardless of disaster.
You ask what are they up to? The doomed ones will be looking around for the sort of job where the 'one-eyed-man is king' while the usual suspects, who grace your studios, will be plotting, scheming and dissembling out of poorly-disguised self-interest and overtly signalled false allegiance/alliance to others. None of their doings will be remotely to the advantage or wellbeing of the ordinary citizen.
OK. You have been very patient. Off you go to play with your '³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ studio, Son et Lumiere' kit. But DO try not to freeze the action with a giant Gorgon head (sic) across one whole wall, it disturbs my sleep.

Poor Newsnight Peter Barron is leaving
Congratulations Peter great job

X

CHLOE #2 IO

Orthodoxy's 'volcanos' much more likely to be electrically driven. (From which a lot of other stuff follows - even global warming!)



PS Why are Chloe's links live?

On energy I still have not seen a convincing argument as to why, when we know of the 2020 carbon shortfall and diminishing North Sea oil, we were not more prepared?

Vastly more money should have been spent on renewables and I would imagine with lead times and no funds in the downturn we won't see much of an increase now.

Dan,

With Labour, see if you can get them to admit angering the public about ANY of their decisions. They don't seem to want to admit to anything.

Run the EU referendum by them. If they won't admit that they've angered a large section of the public by denying us a referendum and then with the sheer arrogance and smarminess over the matter exhibted by David Milliband, then get your presenters to point out that their denial is precisely why they're unpopular - because they're arrogant and out of touch.

Also, you might ask them if they ever read internet message boards contributed to by members of the public on the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ and other media websites. Do they read them? If so, how can they be clueless about public opinion? It's not just "the economy, stupid" - there's a whole raft of issues that we the public are very angry about.

Cheers! :)

gangophone,--- we continue Friday!!

PR is a dead duck in the current circumstances for why should Cameron do a deal with the Lib/Dems when he is likely to wipe out my party and have a majority of 250 seats?

As a student of politics (and Statistics) in my distant degree days much of what Barrie says (posting 5) is correct. It's all about power and control, no matter what political system is put in. Mugabe is a classic example as well as Putin.

As to my preferring another 18 years of opposition waiting for "our turn next" I will enjoy reading loads of postings saying roughly the same about Cameron and the Tories as they do with Brown, who will be long gone.

Nothing changes unless with PR we have power in the hands of the minority party. You either do it our way or forget any "deal".
Gangophone, as we left off last week a permanent Lib/Dem Government. You appeared to be quoting the German model, rather than the Italian one. Convince me!
The only advantage I see is that some party may have to do a "deal" with the Monster Raving Looney party.

On second thoughts I'm for PR!!!

Barrie (7) - aye, ta. Just thought hte collection of pics was particularly stunning, debate over accuracy of scientific statemnets will go on for sure..

PS - bc I make them live, see here and/or .

Regarding "the Labour story": is there actually any news? Naturally, they will all be up to something and scheming how to save their bacon, but will anyone go on record and say something new. The last thing I want to see is yet another NuLabour minion saying how wonderful Brown is.

Remember the program is Newsnight and NOT SpeculationNight!

*6
It's on the Guardian web site about Peter Barron so no need to send my coment to the moderators because I said congratulations -tad heavy handed !

Democracy is an illusion. Its a polite form of termed dictatorship but one hopes that our dictators are competent with running the country. Sadly this labour administration has proven the opposiite of competence and with the light-weights waiting in the wings, an indicator of their wholesale lack of any political heavyweights. Names mentioned for possible contenders to replace Brown such as Straw and Milliband should have us ALL concerned for the future, its not looking bright and its not orange. I can't for the life of me see anybody from this self serving rabble having any leadership potential what so ever.. can you?

barriesingleton (7)

The article you reference is pretty light on scientific explanation. In terms of physics, energy is usually dominant - you cannot have things like volcanoes without a huge energy source so the question would be what causes the lightning!?

The explanation on Wikipedia ( is far more credible. I.e. Jupiter's gravity deforms Io and heat up the core. This causes the volcanoes. The ejected material gets caught up in Jupiter's magnetic field and creates the ion streams pulled off by Jupiter. Here on Earth we sometimes get intense lightning strikes in volcanic plumes which shows the material is electrically charged, but there are plenty of places, e.g. Kansas. that get intense electrical storms, but have no active volcanoes. Therefore, your article seems to have cause and effect the wrong way round.

Also, an electrical arc is not the same as an ion stream. E.g. the solar winds are an ion stream that cause the Northern Lights, but there is no electrical arcing between the Earth and Sun.

Cloe_F's pictures are very interesting though!

given the commercial media companies are slashing wages of presenters etc will the bbc follow suit? Or is it that part of the 'media salary model' it chooses not to follow?

The commercial media companies are slashing wages because advertising revenues have fallen (credit crunch). Thankfully the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ doesn't have advertising :-)

SIMON #15

I have been following the development of this alternative cosmology since the 50s so might be a bit biased. I think the term 'volcano' is used in that article to mean 'apparent spewing on a massive scale' and 'as termed by NASA' rather than its earthly norm. If you have time to dig a little deeper, I think you might change your mind. You will certainly come across a lot of wonderful pictures! You could visit the TPOD archive.

Very sad to hear about the devastating fire on the pier at Weston-Super-Mare.

This is the pier visited in "Cider with Rosie" by Laurie Lee. He describes the fascination with the macabre slot machines, where for the price of a penny (1d) you could see an execution acted out.

I was amazed to find in 1977 when I visited the pier that these machines (albeit now decimalised) were still there. I hope that in the intervening years they have found a new home in a museum and therefore have not been lost.

it's getting to the boring stage now, all these nuLabour MP's swearing loyalty to our dead duck PM and scuttling off on their hols. As they doze in their deckchairs can someone waft a P45 under their noses to introduce them to real world realities as they will be joining the ranks of the disallusioned before too long. Please Mr Brown do not take Sarah near the beach, her dress sense is appalling and flat shoes will not do and you do this false smile the minute a camera is within a mile. Your PR guy should have been sacked months ago, it's all about image as you threw policy betrayals out years ago. Thank God for Stringer and Prentice to ensure some reality returns to a party in freefall.

#10 Billbradbury

Probably Cameron would not be able to arrange it.

But if they did do a deal nowhere would be safe for Labour. For Cameron the benefit would be Labour get hammered and he has what would probably be a popular long term policy as voting numbers would probably increase. Next time around under fairer voting as in London he can't get boshed himself.

The problem for Labour would be that in the short run if they are hammered, as everybody expects, they won't get the donors they need to pay their debts. They might just disintegrate.

Thats good for Cameron, who may be too busy with the SNP by the sounds.

Having said all that I agree that fairer voting does not guarantee good governance in itself.

It would however mean that massive majorities are less likely, unless the public is genuinely behind a party. When Thatcher was at her peak there was probably only 10% of the population who were Thatcherite. Thats not right.

Question for Salman Rushdie.

As a South Asian author who has made his name in the English language and, given the supremacy of the English language amongst the Indian middle classes, what are your thoughts on the marginalisation and loss of status of the Indian languages - some of which have a rich and varied literary tradition?

Just to gently remind you that what you're calling 'the Labour story' is in fact 'the SNP
earthquake' - which Newsnight still has to
cover properly as your 'link to Dundee'was
down according to Gavin Esler on Friday!!!

[As a Dundonian myself we would also be grateful if you could ask the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ's D-G to
upgrade the Tay Bridge transmitter soon
as well as most of this city can't get Free
View because of ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ refusl to upgrade it.

That has drawn comparisons with East
Germany where the citizens of Dresden
lived in what was known as 'The Valley
of The Innocents' for many, many years
because they couldn't get West German
television signals during The Cold War!]

So how to take 'the story' forward? Well
the main development today in Scotland
is I guess the announcement of candidates
for the Labour Scottish leadership following the resignation of Wendy Alexander. You
could reasonably invite those who have
declared their candidacy today to come
on Newsnight and explain the strategy
they think Gordon Brown should follow?



Ian Gray - one of the contenders - is also a former aide to Alistair Darling. Pugnacious
Charley Gordon also hopes to stand even though he was the fall-guy for the errors
that led to Wendy accepting his decision
to resign as Shadow Transport minister:



Wonder what his view is of the call by Lord George Foulkes to nationalise the railways?
And has his line changed on a referendum
for independence? Bring it on as they say?

The other intriguing front page story in the Scottish papers today is in the 'Scottish
Dail Mail': Exclusive: 'Tories And SNP In Secret Plot: Parties discuss extraordinary plan to give Holyrood extra powers .......
and save the Union'.

This is somewhat similar to the so-called
'Cameronian Highlanders' thesis as some
Labour MPs apparently call it (according
to Fraser Nelson of 'The Spectator') and
this story may just be The Mail latching
on to that and hyping this all up ..........

The inside commentary piece that is associated with this comes from the
opiniated Katie Grant who is a Tory.

But what will actually drive this is the
political arithmetic after the next election and there will be sticking points ......
The SNP will never vote with Tories on issues of principle such as Trident - or 42 days ..... issues where Tories have bailed
out New Labour - but issues such as fiscal autonomy and further devolution of power
have already made for strange bedfellows.

'Scotland - the ultimate privatisation?' is an interesting thought ..........?

The old Labour line about the SNP being
'Tartan Tories' dates back a long way too -
and in the 1970's there were rumours of a deal between the SNP and the Tories in Glasgow Cathcart involving Teddy Taylor.

Labour tried to revive that smear during the Glasgow East byelection with a leaflet that implied that the SNP didn't know the difference between a Tory and a Labour Government at Westminster etc etc etc

But on polling day in Glasgow East the SNP hit back by blitzing the constituency with a postcard carrying the picture of Thatcher and Brown on the doorstep of Downing
Street and a message from the former
Upper Clyde shipbuilding work-in leader
Jimmy Reid who is now in the SNP.........!

Why don't you interview Jimmy Reid? And what is Michael Foot telling Brown to do?

Meanwhile, in Wales ............ where Labour lost Merthyr didn't they in the local election?
......... the North East Wales Institute of Higher Education is now Glyndwr University!

A note reaches Scotland from Mike Scott,
the ebullient new Vice-Chancellor, to tell
his Scottish allies that: 'The change of name and status heralds an exciting new era for Wrexham, Wales, the borderlands and the academic world, as Glyndwr becomes the youngest university in Wales'. The name
is inspired by the Welsh hero Owain Glyndwr who was celebrated by The Manic Street Preachers in their song "1404". The
brochure fills in a bit of Owain's background:

"Owain Glyndwr was a highly educated man, who studied law at the Inns of Court in London. He was fluent in four languages and he advocated the creation of a University in both North and South Wales.

"Fiercely proud of his Welsh roots, Glyndwr united Wales and dedicated his life to building an effective and prosperous European nation. Ahead of his time,
he believed in the four pillars on which a modern nation is based: parliament, independent judiciary, freedom of speech and autonomy of universities. In 1404, Glyndwr called a parliament of Welsh representatives from across Wales. he overhauled the legal system of Wales and revived the codified laws of Hywel Dda.

"A skilful strategist and fierce warrior, Glyndwr fought in the English army as a supporter of the English King Richard II. When Richard was usurped by Henry Bolingbroke (later Henry IV), Glyndwr
led his forces against the usurper and defended his homeland. Against superior odds, he led his fellow Welshman to their greatest victory of Bryn Glas in 1402."

Gangophone'
Your comments are coming into line with my thoughts.
You may recall an earlier blog where I wrote that the political system is breaking down. (Old Labour, Blue RinseTories. etc.)

So if the Labour party loses the cash from the unions that set it up in the early 20th.Century, then they will have no allies in Government (unions) and the disenfranchised Labour party will have to form whatever it can, say a social democratic party.
Who knows they could form an alliance with the Lib/Dems, give the "Rose" another name and hey presto a "new" party, still after power same old politicaians and same old promises.

Was was it the Chineses said? "May we live in interesting times"

---to be continued!

Question for Salman Rushdie: 'Where can
Gordon Brown hide?'!

I used to visit Long Grove in Epsom as a very small child- around 6 or 7 years old. I am now 30. My great aunt would take me there when she volunteered and it never phased me to interact with those living on the wards of the hospital- in fact now i think of it as a privilage to have met some very lovely people. We would play cards, do crafts and throw parties for those patients lucky enough not to be incarcerated in isolation as those poor women were. It upsets me a great deal to know that some of those women would have been there at the time- living lives devoid of anything normal and being driven insane- not by their illness but by their years in captivity.

I was incredibly troubled to hear of the typhoid sufferers this morning and how a lack of understanding and treatment of both infection and mental illness led to a MASSIVE mistreatment of over 40 female patients. I would like to think that we really have moved on from this "lock them away" attitude, but the news that the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ tried to make contact with hundreds of potential relatives to have only one response makes my heart sink. Why is there still such a stigma surrounding infectious disease and mental illness? Do we really still believe that locking people away, preventing them from interacting with the world and pretending they don't exist helps them or us? Are there seriously still people out there who would feel more comfortable with this approach?

thecookieducker (#14). "I can't for the life of me see anybody from this self serving rabble having any leadership potential what so ever.. can you?"

Depressingly...NO.

To paraphrase Tony Benn, there are just far too many 'weathercocks'. I speculate, but perhaps this is why so many traditional Britons don't vote/care anymore and why New Labour has imported so many low-skilled immigrants? The latter won't understand/care about what Benn meant and will be so grateful for their gifts that they're bound to vote for all the (largely undeliverable) panaceas. Meanwhile our snakes-in-suits will get to pursue their internationalist agenda with a mandate from those who don't really consider themselves Britons anyway. One just has to look at the demographic projections for our cities, i.e. New Labour heartlands (it won't matter if it's the New Conservatives either - it's all about de-nationalisation and has been for decades).

SNP and Independence for Scotland

Bring it on, I say, and the same for Wales and Northern Ireland: then we will have an English parliament, which might improve grass roots influence on things of local concern. Thinking smaller should also make it easier for us bloggers to focus on and organise civil protests to win referenda on important issues, such as EU Treaty and Immigration.

An added bonus would be to cut down the excessive travel and maintenance claims for MPs' second homes.

What an absolutely amazing, shocking and alarming expose of what went on at the asylum for typhoid patients. I hope you will be following this up further. The idea that this was still going on in the 1990s is absolutely appalling and you are to be congratulated for bringing this story into the daylight.

Re #4 thegangofone

Funny thing about fairer voting is that it would actually help some of the labour lemmings to survive.

That's why I don't understand with all the kamikaze election plans being leaked nobody says: Fairer voting and completion of devolution - we could do a deal with the LibDems on those and go to the country early to wrongfoot the Tories.

However it came about, a fairer voting system coupled with English devolution could only prevent "strong leaders" (aka paranoid idiots) being allowed complete control long enough for them to believe their own infallibility.

You'd think that the Tories would have learnt their lesson with Thatcher and Labour with Blair, but they must be slow learners.

Re #10 Billbradbury
& #14 thecookieducker

You don't have to look outside the UK for an example of PR working well, just peek over Hadrian's Wall.

For 8 years in coalition, the LibDems ameliorated the worst of NuLabour policies and helped create an institution and services Scots believe in and many in England envy. Now for the past year the minority SNP government has proved it's not extremist, worked with the small parties (even Goldie's Tories) on specific issues and is increasing its popularity all the time.

With London Labour pulling the strings, it's no wonder there's a sorry line-up of candidates to take over the poisoned chalice of the Scottish Labour Leadership, none of whom have a clue of how to be an effective opposition.

Imperfect of course as any place full of politicos is bound to be, but a pretty good example of fair voting in practice delivering things the people actually want.

Look at the current reputation of the House of Cards and there's no comparison. All thanks to the combination of the 1872 plurality voting system and two monolithic parties preferring to take Buggins' turn at total power every decade or so. It's in that scenario that democracy is indeed an illusion, and a pretty sick one too.

It used to be the British way to rather enjoy 18 years of whining from the sidelines in preparation for a chance at total control, but that no longer applies to the Scots.

IMPERFECT OF COURSE

Nicely put Browndov. Further, some of that imperfection would be screened out if we voted for individuals rather than rosettes.

Re #34 barriesingleton

True, but you have to start somewhere. If we had PR, parties would have less control over their "lobby fodder" and strict party lines would certainly become more fuzzy, maybe evntually disappearing.