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Very brave, Graham.

By even quoting that Celtic nationalism could have a "strong tinge of racialism", could,(and probably will), get you in hot water.
Nevertheless, I agree with Orwell.

I think that the important thing to remember is WHEN Mr. Orwell wrote his essay.
Just after a particularly nasty war in which the new state of Ireland officially remained neutral (despite recent evidence to show that they were not as neutral as they could have been) and at a time when the Empire was starting its inevitable decline with many colonies calling for independence.
What else would an Englishman have written at the time?

"I think that the important thing to remember is WHEN Mr. Orwell wrote his essay."

For people that hark back to the the 16th-century,(and further, for political inspiration), that is rich.

And, that, by "racialising" Orwell as an "Englishman", shows either a lack of knowledge of Orwell's work, or desperation in the extreme, or both.

Slimslad wrote:-
"For people that hark back to the the 16th-century,(and further, for political inspiration), that is rich."

Please show me where I have ever "harked back to the 16th century for political inspiration"?

Slimslad wrote:-
"And, that, by "racialising" Orwell as an "Englishman", shows either a lack of knowledge of Orwell's work, or desperation in the extreme, or both."

I'm sorry, was he not English then?

Oh, perhaps he was Indian?

To be precise, he was British.
But,

"....he was also a traditionalist with a love of old English values"
Therefore, Englishman by attitude.

The palpable default logic is nationalism and racism are the same thing, but back when Cornwall was isolated from England it could be deemed to be fear now its become stubborn ignorance or could it be a few are failing to let go of the past and evolve?

Either way I believe it is impossible to be nationalistic without being racist, what has significantly changed is the use of the word Celtic, the Cornish people are unique and more closely aligned to England than so called Celtic nations, Scotland is moving this way, the celtic ting has no place in modern britain.

So, Saltashgaz, according to your crude logic minority indigenous populations with minority cultures who seek to protect and defend their homelands, identity and cultural integrity are racists.
What, in your opinion, are the avenues open to the Yanomami:

Only one? Give up, be trampled all over and disappeared?
Surely we can recognise the value of and respect cultural and ethnic diversity better in our more enlightened modern world?
After all, respect for 'diversity' is even the PR watchword of Cornwall Constabulary.
The days of neanderthal imperialism are surely over - it's time to respect the richly diverse smaller nations and communities and cultures of the UK and our wider modern world.
As for the under-informed scribblings of our mono-literate Mr Smith's guru Eric Arthur Blair - Eton Public School alumnae display studied ignorance and denial (in the public domain) about the history and true status of the Celtic Nation and Duchy of Cornwall even to this day:

"Please show me where I have ever "harked back to the 16th century for political inspiration"?"

Please, all Cornish and/or Celtic nationalists hark back to Athelstan, the Prayer-Book Rebellion, etc., etc., in a effort to legitimate their political aspirations. Then you tell us that, because Orwell wrote as a man of his time and treasured English values, this somehow makes his comments on Celtic "racists" false?

Honest people do not fear the truth, the subjects at the top of the page and it is about Cornwall, not your pathetic bookmark collection.

I stand by my comment and feel no reason to allow you to send it off topic as usual

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

One wonders what Orwell thought about British and/or English nationalism? One must wonder what the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ and Graham Smith think about English and/or British nationalism as, for the time being, they seem happy supporters of these two imperialistic and rather aggressive forms of nationalism.

I think you'll find it was Victorian English 'gentlmen' who developed a whole set of strange beliefs about race - beliefs they extended to include the 'Anglo-saxons'.

Anyway, wading through the propaganda and cherry picked quotes of the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ and other establishment conservatives, one must judge a political movement by its actions.

Today English and British nationalism are dominated by the xenophobic, eurosceptic, far-right. Take for example the BNP, English Democrats or England First Party. That is not to say that Labour and the Tories don't both indulge in populist British nationalism when it suits them, but the declared Eng/Brit nat parties are invariable from the lunatic far-right.

In the past English nationalism was undoubtedly one of the key factors leading to the subjugation, often by violence, of the other peoples of these Atlantic isles. State building some would call it. British nationalism continued in this trend to create the largest empire the world has ever known with the Victorian English gent as the summit in all senses - including evolutionary.

Today's 'Celtic' nationalist parties -SNP, Plaid, Mebyon Kernow- the majority face of the Celtic nationalist movements, can equally be judged by their actions.

These parties are all committed anti-fascists with clear policy statements to that regard. They are all committed Europeans -internationalists- and believe in stronger European cooperation if not EU federalism. They are all anti-imperialist and anti-colonialist parties supporting the rights of oppressed minorities around the globe. None of them are hostile to immigration, want to close frontiers or want to withdraw from the EU.

Judge for yourselves.

"One wonders what Orwell thought about British and/or English nationalism?"

If one wants to explore Orwell's thoughts on nationalism as a whole, perhaps one should read his works?

Orwell was a proponent of a federal socialist Europe, a position outlined in his 1947 essay "Toward European Unity". If that's the case then he would have found a good home in the SNP, Plaid or MK who are all members of the European Free Alliance (centre-left to left-wing) which itself is allied to the European Greens. The EFA/Greens are one of the only groups today that advocates further EU federalism as well as a Social Europe.

Lets do a quick poll. How many people who have contributed to this blog would like a federal and social Europe and therefore agree with Orwell?

@Slimslad

I acutally read Burmese Days in Burma. Other than that I've read: Animal Farm, 1984, Down and Out in Paris and London (my fave), the Road to Wigan Pier and a Homage to Catalonia. He was rather keen on anarchist self-determination you know.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

"As nearly as possible, no nationalist ever thinks, talks, or writes about anything except the superiority of his own power unit."

""All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts."

"Every nationalist is haunted by the belief that the past can be altered."

(George Orwell: ‘Notes on Nationalism’
First published: Polemic. — GB, London. — May 1945. )

The same source as Graham used. Does it remind you of any group?

Well....UKIP, the Tories, Labour for starters....

As I have previously said, consider the source!

"As I have previously said, consider the source!"

Arguably, one of the greatest social commentators in the English language?

Slimslad wrote:-
"Arguably, one of the greatest social commentators in the English language?"

And commentators are always right, and never biased, are they.
Consider when it was written.
Consider world events at the time, and those of the previous 50 years.
Would Mr. Orwell have written anything else.

Slimslad:'If one wants to explore Orwell's thoughts on nationalism as a whole, perhaps one should read his works?'

Excellent suggestion, Slimslad. Most people who enjoy literature did - one book, several or all - when teenagers. It seems Eton Public School alumnus Orwell/Blair may have been the bulk of Mr Smith's literary diet both then and since - being virtually the only author of some historical standing quoted on Mr Smith's blog.
It will be novel(!) when Mr Smith starts off with a quote from Proust, Descartes, Whitman or Sartre...
Or, more relevantly to 'Graham Smith's Cornwall'(!), Causley, Quiller-Couch, Tangye, Rowse, Payton, Hodge etc etc etc
Maybe Mr Smith's newly acquired 'Kindleâ„¢' will lead to some greater diversity of literary reference changes round 'ere...

"Causley, Quiller-Couch, Tangye, Rowse, Payton, Hodge"

Talk about big fish, little pond.

"Lets do a quick poll. How many people who have contributed to this blog would like a federal and social Europe and therefore agree with Orwell?"

So any takers for a federal and social Europe? I won't hold my breath. There Graham is the answer to who are the real xenophobes, old-school nationalists and reactionaries. The opposite of Mebyon Kernow and the Green/EFA alliance.

Back to Graham's original invitation.

"Readers are invited to speculate about why Orwell doesn't mention Cornwall".

Probably because it never occurred to Orwell that Cornwall was anything other than an English County?

Probably right again, Slimslad. Especially as Orwell wasn't probably taught the true story of The Celtic Nation and Duchy of Cornwall at Eton (A bit like Mr Smith wherever he was 'educated' perhaps Mr Smith will reveal to us how much of Cornwall's story he was taught at any stage in his education).
Neither was probably this anglo-imperialist latter day Etonian ethnic cleanser:

How much of Cornwall's true story appears on these hallowed shelves do you think?

You could ask:

Educationally deprived Eton College students and alumnae realising the paucity of their pedagogic experience with regard to information concerning mainland Britain may find these contemporary references of value to help them catch up:
/dna/h2g2/A3712510







[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

Just who wrote the "true story of the Celtic Nations and the Duchy of Cornwall",and when was this "true story" discovered?
I would hazard a guess at after 1950.

Perhaps it wrote itself, Slimslad, using human agents as transcribers (and by the way, your chronological guesswork is well wide of the mark).

As for 'big fish, little pond' - you appear to have a deep personal understanding of that particular metaphor.

Are you saying that relativities of scale determines levels of respect due?
Are you saying the Inuit, the Maori, the endangered tribes of the Amazon, the Irish of the 20th Century, the Tibetans of the 21st Century, the Cornish of the 21st Century had and have no right to their story and culture nor to resist subsumption merely on the grounds of relative scale?

You don’t appear to have much affinity with or affection for ‘diversity’, Slimslad.

Perhaps you need to swim out of your little pond and into the wild open ocean

"(and by the way, your chronological guesswork is well wide of the mark)."

Really? Mebyon Kernow formed? The Cornish Stannery Parliament "reformed"?. Payton an Angharrack et al, those big, unbiased, fish in their small Cornish pond? The comparison to real endangered tribes and cultures that have suffered real genocide is always expected, but still less than honest.

Since Orwell's "Notes on Nationalism" has been quoted, let me quote some more:

"Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."

Could it not be patriotism driving Cornish activism? Are activists really trying to extent Cornwall's border further east into Devon? Is Cornwall not protecting itself? Isn't Cornwall defending its culture, including its language?

Are we not witnessing English nationalism here? England pushing into Cornwall and subjecting its inhabitants to English attitudes?

Since Charles Windsor is the Duke of Cornwall, would anyone here like to explain what a duchy is and when did the Duchy of Cornwall cease?

What has George Orwell on Celtic Nationalism to do with the "Duchy"?
There is always the "Duchy" injected into posts where the "Duchy" has nothing to do with the subject in hand.

George Orwell's essay Notes on Nationalism, which mentions the Celtic variety, makes a distinction between nationalism and patriotism.

I believe that the Duchy has much to do with the subject. The UK essentially has a monarch that delegates day to day runnings of the lands to an elected parliament. Land in Crown possession doesn't mean that they're all the same country. The Isle of Man is a Crown Dependency, but by no means a part of England.

Since Cornwall is a duchy and its duke being Charles Windsor, an heir to the throne, many assume that because they share the same crown they are the same country. The whole point of this message is when did Cornwall become a part of England? When was the duchy swallowed up by England?

Aren't the people who seek recognition of their Cornish identity make a simple claim that they're not England, even though England assumes Cornwall as its own? Are we not seeing English nationalism here, extending her power into the Duchy of Cornwall?

Please, Let us concentrate on the homeless, those living in poverty, the disadvantaged.
Never mind "Charles Windsor", or the Celts, Stannary, Submarine Act, or Athelstan's ancient history.

"The UK essentially has a monarch that delegates day to day runnings of the lands to an elected parliament."

This, by the way, is, (essentially), a piece of nonsense.

You're avoiding the issue through belittlement. Start comparing things and you'll always find greater or poorer things.

I'm only bringing up historic references as they play a part TODAY. "The key to the future lies in the past." Is it not?

Inherent people of Cornwall do face the problems of living in poverty and the threat of being homeless, when they can't even afford to buy a house locally. How are they able to compete with the buying power of Londoners?

My reason for bringing up the whole duchy history is, shouldn't the people of Cornwall have the right to protect themselves? To have the opportunity to buy a house locally? To be Cornish rather than assumed English?

I doubt we'll see any leadership in Westminster, which makes it even more important that Cornwall has the ability to lead themselves.


P.S. Who was in charge of the UK during those few hours between Gordon Brown's resignation and Cameron's appointment as PM? Oh. The Queen.

So, how is Cornwall any different than any other depressed area of Britain?
The unaffordability of local housing, unemployment, poverty?
What has this to do with the Duchy?
Cornwall, like many tourist areas, has a high percentage of second home-owners, retirees and holiday lets. Seasonal work and low wages reflect a lack of industrial investment and the collapse of mining and heavy industry.

"I'm only bringing up historic references as they play a part TODAY. "The key to the future lies in the past." Is it not?"

Sounds like a quote from one of the new Cornish "icons", but the constant references to "lawful rights" seems to "cut no ice" with central or local Government, or voters for that matter.

"Inherent people of Cornwall do face the problems of living in poverty and the threat of being homeless, when they can't even afford to buy a house locally. How are they able to compete with the buying power of Londoners?"

What is an Inherent person Huw?

Don't you think that by painting "the Cornish" with such a broad brush, you are demeaning and belittling a great number of people? Some of us, have worked hard to afford our houses, some of us have had them handed down to us by parents, some of us have been happy to rent.

Some of us have good jobs earning good wages, some of us have set up businesses which have flourished.

As I have said elsewhere on this "blog' there has never been a time when any Cornish person who wanted a house could buy one, and the low income earner of\r benefit claimant has relied on the private rental section or council houses.

So please don't be nasty about us Cornish Huw, we don't like it and don't want it.

In the same way, I do not suppose "Londoners" would enjoy being tarred by your large brush Huw. It's not a good idea to demonise a group of people, especially whout any proof. We all know what a person who does that gets called. You may find you turn more people away from your cause than towards it.

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1. existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute: an inherent distrust of strangers.

2. Grammar . standing before a noun.

3. inhering; infixed.

Has 'Pedants' Corner' migrated to your blog, Mr Smith?