Live and let live
Through my association with the Tenantspin community group and being based in the FACT centre in Liverpool I come into contact and work with people from all ethnic groups.
They have become some of my closest friends and I enjoy being in their company.
I make this point because of two events recently in the news which have caused a lot of controversy, hence my observations.
Jack Straw a Labour politician suggested, not demanded, that it would enhance communication between Muslim women and other groups if they did not wear a veil when conducting conversations in certain circumstances.
This invoked an outcry of gigantic proportions from some sections of the press and the LPC (Loonie Political Correct) brigade.
Around the same time an employee of British Airways was told, not asked, to remove or cover up a cross which signified she was a Christian. She has left her job and is now taking action against British Airways.
Does this mean all crosses on church roofs will be removed? We already have bibles being removed from hotel rooms and are in danger of reaching the situation where the tail is wagging the dog.
There is no law in existence that will ever force me to hide a cross if I wish to wear one. Meanwhile as I write the result of a poll conducted across a section of the public produced the result of 92% saying the veil should be removed.
I would agree with Muslim women wearing a veil if they so wish, but I also think it is not an ideal situation if they truly wish to integrate and suggests a type of oppression of Muslim females.
However will the government put a tight rein on these P.C. nutters before they make more problems that don’t really exist?
The future does not look too bright if these two incidents are examples of what lies ahead.
I'm pleased you've raised these issues. I hope I can make a few relevant remarks.
Regarding the issue of the niqab:
I’ve listened with great interest and considerable disappointment to the debates in the papers and on TV - notably Question Time last week (³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ1) gave much time to the issue.
The debate is being construed as one of freedom of the individual to dress how he or she wants. I think this focus has sidelined what, in my own personal view, lies at the heart of things. Part of the problem lies with the women who claim it is their right to wear the veil. This clearly sends out the message that in a pluralistic liberal society we should all uphold the rights of individuals against the state. That is their claim. Surely we must respect their freedom of choice. End of story. Well, not quite. I wouldn’t for a minute suggest that state intervene but I would like to delve into the issues a little bit more:
Is it really about freedom? Or is that a convenient mask for the underlying significance of veiling women – or, to put it the right way round: a woman wanting to veil herself in a society where her freedom is not being threatened by the lack of veil.
I don’t think it is about rights and freedom.
And I claim that many of these women don’t really understand the issues themselves.
I know this is a strong claim but I challenge the notion that any one of us has enough self-knowledge to make claims of motivation and freedom without there being more to it.
Because I tell you my motivation it doesn't follow that explains why I am doing something. It is a start but not the end.
THere are numerous hidden contexts informing my motives which need to be drawn to the surface. Keeping these context hidden from view allows the discussion to get superficially polarised into agreement versus disagreement exchanges.
In my view we need to examine and open the debate around the issue of gender politics. This is a complex and culturally distorted area but, I think, it lies at the heart of veling. If we are to tackle multiculturalism carefully and intelligently and rid ourselves of this pandering liberal mentality we need to take the debate into Islam itself and examine gender politics from inside.
Why is the act of veiling by a minority of Muslim women seen as an act of liberation? It is a smoke screen behind which complex political issues are being hidden from view.
Exactly Nadim - well stated. I watched a recent doco on the 'liberalisation' of Islam in Morrocco which (essentially the king) is bringing about significant change in the name of 'commonsense' Islam.
His changes revolve around allowing women to train as Islamic 'priests' who after training are allocated to Mosques around the country - The first group trained were 60 in number and 50 qualified.
His own wife was married unveiled and at his opening speach in parliament when he introduced the changes, he stated that for him Islam was a peaceful religion that respected the rights of women and did not exhort the hardline views that radical Muslims expouse.
Throughout the Muslim world you will find as many different interpretations to the Koran as you will the bible in christian countries.
Yes I agree nadim - it is only some muslim women who want to wear the veil and some muslim men who want their wives to wear it. It is not common practice throughout the muslim world.
This argument as you so rightly put it is about other issues. Not sure about the gender politics bit
I think it's simple about another ethnic group in the country trying to assert what they see as their ethnic rights over the common rights of all citizens- so I see that as cultural politics rather than gender.
And lets be clear about this any group will invariably push to get their own needs met over the needs of the majority - it's the nature of groups, particularly if they are radicals.
I'm sure that Muslims in general in UK and in Europe are feeling uncomfortable, threatened and under seige and when this is the case they attempt to protect themselves (naturally) and protect their own culture, religion and behaviours. This is what I think the veil is all about at the moment
I have had similar conversations about this very subject myself lately and, in fact, posted a comment on the sister site, Free thinking Liverpool, about this subject matter.
I have wrestled with the idea that the wearing of the niqab is, in some quarters, being presented as a woman's right or freedom of expression.
To me, that term seems opposed to the actual physical, aesthetics of what I see when I look at a veiled woman.
And I agree that the focus of the debate is not really the issue.
Exercising a woman's right to wear the veil in this society can not be divorced from the fact that in other societies woman are denied a choice.
Wear it or else.
I had a conversation about this with my son who pointed out a glich in my arguement.
Here we profess to be PROUD of the fact that in our culture those freedoms can exist.
He turned my arguement back onto me.
'Nothing exists in a political vacuum'.
I cannot profess to see the stupidity in the notion of 'imposing democracy' while ignoring the fact that incendiary remarks will fan flames.
Change has to come from within.
'I challenge the notion that any one of us has enough self-knowledge to make claims of motivation and freedom without there being more to it.'
I agree wholeheartedly Nadim but the way the debate seems to panning out seems counter-productive to me.
As right wing racist groups whoop & holler with delight & fundamentalists take to the streets....isn't it up to our 'leaders' to look for a mutually acceptable way forward?
People ripping veils off women? European towns considering fines for people who wear them?
I don't know how things will develop but as my son pointed out to me....
....'there are uncomfortable warning signs here. Preventing someone from wearing what they 'want' to wear, as a mark of identifying themselves -who they are and what they believe in - that's not that far away from 'forcing' someone to wear something as a mark of identi.....hang on. Not a pleasant thought eh?
i want to start a drive to carry along like minded people across the borders of india and pakistan for the unification of the two countries.
the cultures in both sides are similar to the deepest core, despite the prevalent diversities
we still have pain full emotions flowing in our hearts which was caused due to the great separation
we still have unsurpassable love for each other regardless of political issues
Jojo,
An admirable aim and the best of luck, the world needs more people like you. Builders not destroyers.
Nadim, Fitx and Esther
I think we all agree in general that the wearing of the veil is not the big issue at stake. A news item stated that only 2.5% of muslim women in Britain wear the veil
If it is a religious definition why don’t muslim men wear one.
There is a hint of hypocracy involved here. Muslim males were very vociferous in pushing the religious connection but at the same time do not allow women to worship in the same mosques as themselves.
I have never heard it said the veil was a means of identifying what a person believes in and regarding people being forced to wear a sign as the jews were in Nazi Germany there is no comparison, that issue would be condemned world wide as it was then.
Hundreds of years ago knights going on crusades made their women wear chastity belts, in the east women were kept locked up in harems away from prying male eyes.
We have moved on from then so maybe it is a case of some cultures not having moved as fast as others. It would be interesting to be around in fifty years, I doubt the issue of the veil would raise an eyebrow by then.
Good point John. And it's comforting to know that the various Gods from the various, different religions all come from the same standpoint - namely that it's always the WOMEN who haved to defer to particular practices in relation to certain 'religious' beliefs.