Does setting a date to get troops out of Afghanistan mean the Taliban has won?
|
Wednesday, 7 July 2010
|18:00 - 19:00 GMT
Nato Troops could leave Afghanistan in 2014. The international community supports President Hamid Karzai's goal that Afghan forces should lead security operations across the country in four years time.
This article in the New York Times says one of the reasons why there is this new commitment is because countries who have troops there, acknowledged that neither the public in their own countries nor the Afghan people had much patience left.
The Western European democracies with the most troops in the country - Britain, France and Germany - are under great domestic pressure to reduce their presence, while the United States, which has by far the heaviest military presence, is hewing to a "conditions based" approach that allows its forces to slow any drawdowns in areas where the insurgency appears more tenacious or where Afghan troops and the police appear to have inadequate capabilities.
NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said the alliance will never allow the Taliban to topple the government of Afghanistan. But he said that transition to Afghan-led security would be based on "conditions, not calendars." The Canadians who also have troops in Afghanistan say :
"The latest conference on Afghanistan set 2014 as the date for the assumption of military control of the country by Afghans. It is an ambitious timetable, and one that will require defeat of, or reconciliation with, the Taliban. With defeat unlikely, Canada expressed support for reconciliation at the conference. Now Canada must make sure it stays around, training troops and maintaining an energetic presence, to help give effect to reconciliation."
Richard Barrett co-ordinator of the UN al-Qaida Taliban monitoring team says in today's Guardian argues:
Afghanistan is a mess that everyone wants cleared up - but the problem is how to do it. It is clear that the military option has not succeeded. June saw the greatest monthly loss of life among Nato troops since the beginning of the campaign, topping 100 for the first time, and so far 2010 has been twice as lethal for Nato forces as 2009. The Taliban, meanwhile, show no sign of flagging - and, sensing victory, their morale is high.
Gerald Warner blogs
We are watching history in the making in Afghanistan; but it is history of a certain stamp - the slow-motion unravelling of a disaster. He also says :
Here we have high-ranking international diplomats and foreign ministers, the supposed "movers and shakers" of the world, but they have encountered the immovable and the unshakeable: the victorious Taliban and the treacherous warlords of Afghanistan. Gerald Warner believes that behind Karzai's confident demeanour lies the uncomfortable reality that his recent back-door overtures to the Taliban have been contemptuously rejected. The same will happen to Nato: why should the Taliban negotiate the endgame to a war it has already won?
So does setting a date to get NATO troops out of Afghanistan mean the Taliban has won?
That''s all for our debate today. Thanks so much for taking part - see you tomorrow!
Comment sent via BLOG
18:59
113631290
Sruthi on the blog - observing the ongoing situation, I believe that the present decision to withdraw forces is extremely wise, as it finally puts an end to the perennial stalemate that has been rife all throughout Afghanistan, ever since the invasion of the west
Comment sent via YOURSAY
18:59
113631290
Hyder in Devon via email - The most important point is being forgotten: Taliban were created by USA and UK to drive Russians out of Afghanistan. When that mission was achieved they were not disarmed and have turned on Uk, USA and Pakistan. I hope West realises that.
Comment sent via BLOG
18:59
113631290
Soso on the blog - You guys don't know why you are dying for. You care about your civilians and soldiors died in the so-called "terrorist-attack", but have you guys ever been anguished by the civilians who died in your indiscriminate shooting and bombing, those you said unavoidable casualty of a righteous war.
Comment sent via BLOG
18:59
113631290
Chintan in Houston on the blog - Your caller is incorrect we went in to defeat Al-Queda and not the Taliban. But we lost sight of who was who and now we are fighting Taliban instead of Al-queda who have fled to foreign countries mostly Pakistan. According to CIA Director Leon Panetta there were "at most" only 50-100 Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
Comment sent via Facebook
18:58
113631290
Lombe Ndau - Why are the troops being pulled out in the first place? Whether WE agree or not that the Taliban have won this war, the Taliban are already celebrating victory
Comment sent via Facebook
18:58
113631290
Randall Pegram on Facebook - What would your guest have us do? Nixon-style carpet bombing or a Sherman-style March to the Sea? We have failed to accomplish our objectives because we took our eye off the ball in 2003 and shifted resources to Iraq. Once you lose momentum its hard to get it back.
Comment sent via SMS
18:49
111970481
< they don鈥檛 trust us they don鈥檛 trust their government > how to build confidence ? Hatred will only bring more hatred violence will get you nowhere ! Frank
Comment sent via Twitter
18:44
113979123
@成人快手_WHYS .Theres no win for US and US need to just walk away.Prz Obama declare victory n run.
Comment sent via Twitter
18:44
113979123
@成人快手_WHYS Theres no win for US and US need to just walk away.Prz Obama declare victory n run.
Comment sent via SMS
18:44
108683853
The afghan population is split between the majority, who are apolitical, ambivalent rural tribespeople, and the minority which is split between corrupt politicians and fanatics. Without the active, positive input of the majority population, it is a lost cause. Since the majority don鈥檛 know or care what democracy is - it鈥檚 already lost. Pull out as soon as possible. Lloyd in prague.
Comment sent via Twitter
18:43
113979123
@成人快手_WHYS Wats the point in staying in Afg?Kill more of them while they kill more of US.Contd.
Comment sent via SMS
18:40
113292607
THERE IS NO VICTORY IN WAR! ACTUALLY WE ARE ONE PEOPLE FIGHTING OURSELF. ONLY FOOLS FIGHT THEMSELVES!
Comment sent via YOURSAY
18:44
113631290
Gerry in Berlin via email - Those who believe that the west invades any country except in order to control resources or punish those who step out of line, as invaders have done throughout the ages, are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Comment sent via Twitter
18:35
114379091
@成人快手_WHYS yes it's like a lameduck chairman who announces he will step down.
Comment sent via SMS
18:32
112605470
The taliban have not won in afghanistan but they have recruited many western youth
So they will still claim victory and they will make that known
- haroun in trinidad
Comment sent via SMS
18:34
108513545
If you want the Afghans to take over, perhaps it鈥檚 best to teach them how to read and write first..... Banks, amsterdam
Comment sent via SMS
18:32
113912994
Hello, Talaban has already claimed victory! It seems that they are not so patient like NATO!
Comment sent via YOURSAY
18:37
113631290
Ahma in Ethiopia via email - Setting a date is good but it must be in secret. It must be confidential, so that talibans will not ahve time to plan and change strategy
example..if they know the date they will accumulate more power until the date of withdrawel as if they are no there...then once all forces are out they will come and destroy what is built by coalition forces and extremism and terririsom
Comment sent via Facebook
18:28
113631290
Sabiu on Facebook - No not at all its now the Taliban will face the reality of war and they will be defeated holds true.
Comment sent via Facebook
18:28
113631290
Nico on Facebook - Of course they have...I would personally hope some third-party force, such as a leftist guerrilla force, would form some sort of new bulwark... but that's dreaming considering the soviets seem to have ruined all confidence in the 'left' of that country.
Does setting a date to get troops out of Afghanistan mean the Taliban has won?
| Wednesday, 7 July 2010 | 18:00 - 19:00 GMT
Nato Troops could leave Afghanistan in 2014. The international community supports President Hamid Karzai's goal that Afghan forces should lead security operations across the country in four years time.
This article in the New York Times says one of the reasons why there is this new commitment is because countries who have troops there, acknowledged that neither the public in their own countries nor the Afghan people had much patience left.
The Western European democracies with the most troops in the country - Britain, France and Germany - are under great domestic pressure to reduce their presence, while the United States, which has by far the heaviest military presence, is hewing to a "conditions based" approach that allows its forces to slow any drawdowns in areas where the insurgency appears more tenacious or where Afghan troops and the police appear to have inadequate capabilities.
NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said the alliance will never allow the Taliban to topple the government of Afghanistan. But he said that transition to Afghan-led security would be based on "conditions, not calendars."
The Canadians who also have troops in Afghanistan say :
"The latest conference on Afghanistan set 2014 as the date for the assumption of military control of the country by Afghans. It is an ambitious timetable, and one that will require defeat of, or reconciliation with, the Taliban. With defeat unlikely, Canada expressed support for reconciliation at the conference. Now Canada must make sure it stays around, training troops and maintaining an energetic presence, to help give effect to reconciliation."
Richard Barrett co-ordinator of the UN al-Qaida Taliban monitoring team says in today's Guardian argues:
Afghanistan is a mess that everyone wants cleared up - but the problem is how to do it. It is clear that the military option has not succeeded. June saw the greatest monthly loss of life among Nato troops since the beginning of the campaign, topping 100 for the first time, and so far 2010 has been twice as lethal for Nato forces as 2009. The Taliban, meanwhile, show no sign of flagging - and, sensing victory, their morale is high.
Gerald Warner blogs
We are watching history in the making in Afghanistan; but it is history of a certain stamp - the slow-motion unravelling of a disaster. He also says :
Here we have high-ranking international diplomats and foreign ministers, the supposed "movers and shakers" of the world, but they have encountered the immovable and the unshakeable: the victorious Taliban and the treacherous warlords of Afghanistan.
Gerald Warner believes that behind Karzai's confident demeanour lies the uncomfortable reality that his recent back-door overtures to the Taliban have been contemptuously rejected. The same will happen to Nato: why should the Taliban negotiate the endgame to a war it has already won?
So does setting a date to get NATO troops out of Afghanistan mean the Taliban has won?
Your comments
Comment sent via host
That''s all for our debate today. Thanks so much for taking part - see you tomorrow!
Comment sent via BLOG
Sruthi on the blog - observing the ongoing situation, I believe that the present decision to withdraw forces is extremely wise, as it finally puts an end to the perennial stalemate that has been rife all throughout Afghanistan, ever since the invasion of the west
Comment sent via YOURSAY
Hyder in Devon via email - The most important point is being forgotten: Taliban were created by USA and UK to drive Russians out of Afghanistan. When that mission was achieved they were not disarmed and have turned on Uk, USA and Pakistan. I hope West realises that.
Comment sent via BLOG
Soso on the blog - You guys don't know why you are dying for. You care about your civilians and soldiors died in the so-called "terrorist-attack", but have you guys ever been anguished by the civilians who died in your indiscriminate shooting and bombing, those you said unavoidable casualty of a righteous war.
Comment sent via BLOG
Chintan in Houston on the blog - Your caller is incorrect we went in to defeat Al-Queda and not the Taliban. But we lost sight of who was who and now we are fighting Taliban instead of Al-queda who have fled to foreign countries mostly Pakistan. According to CIA Director Leon Panetta there were "at most" only 50-100 Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
Comment sent via Facebook
Lombe Ndau - Why are the troops being pulled out in the first place? Whether WE agree or not that the Taliban have won this war, the Taliban are already celebrating victory
Comment sent via Facebook
Randall Pegram on Facebook - What would your guest have us do? Nixon-style carpet bombing or a Sherman-style March to the Sea? We have failed to accomplish our objectives because we took our eye off the ball in 2003 and shifted resources to Iraq. Once you lose momentum its hard to get it back.
Comment sent via SMS
< they don鈥檛 trust us they don鈥檛 trust their government > how to build confidence ? Hatred will only bring more hatred violence will get you nowhere ! Frank
Comment sent via Twitter
@成人快手_WHYS .Theres no win for US and US need to just walk away.Prz Obama declare victory n run.
Comment sent via Twitter
@成人快手_WHYS Theres no win for US and US need to just walk away.Prz Obama declare victory n run.
Comment sent via SMS
The afghan population is split between the majority, who are apolitical, ambivalent rural tribespeople, and the minority which is split between corrupt politicians and fanatics. Without the active, positive input of the majority population, it is a lost cause. Since the majority don鈥檛 know or care what democracy is - it鈥檚 already lost. Pull out as soon as possible. Lloyd in prague.
Comment sent via Twitter
@成人快手_WHYS Wats the point in staying in Afg?Kill more of them while they kill more of US.Contd.
Comment sent via SMS
THERE IS NO VICTORY IN WAR! ACTUALLY WE ARE ONE PEOPLE FIGHTING OURSELF. ONLY FOOLS FIGHT THEMSELVES!
Comment sent via YOURSAY
Gerry in Berlin via email - Those who believe that the west invades any country except in order to control resources or punish those who step out of line, as invaders have done throughout the ages, are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Comment sent via Twitter
@成人快手_WHYS yes it's like a lameduck chairman who announces he will step down.
Comment sent via SMS
The taliban have not won in afghanistan but they have recruited many western youth So they will still claim victory and they will make that known - haroun in trinidad
Comment sent via SMS
If you want the Afghans to take over, perhaps it鈥檚 best to teach them how to read and write first..... Banks, amsterdam
Comment sent via SMS
Hello, Talaban has already claimed victory! It seems that they are not so patient like NATO!
Comment sent via YOURSAY
Ahma in Ethiopia via email - Setting a date is good but it must be in secret. It must be confidential, so that talibans will not ahve time to plan and change strategy example..if they know the date they will accumulate more power until the date of withdrawel as if they are no there...then once all forces are out they will come and destroy what is built by coalition forces and extremism and terririsom
Comment sent via Facebook
Sabiu on Facebook - No not at all its now the Taliban will face the reality of war and they will be defeated holds true.
Comment sent via Facebook
Nico on Facebook - Of course they have...I would personally hope some third-party force, such as a leftist guerrilla force, would form some sort of new bulwark... but that's dreaming considering the soviets seem to have ruined all confidence in the 'left' of that country.