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 | You and Yours - Transcript ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Radio 4 |
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| TX: 25.11.03 – GOVERNMENT WILL MISS DEADLINE FOR MOVING LEARNING DISABLED PEOPLE OUT OF LONG-STAY HOSPITALS CLAIMS CHARITY |
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| PRESENTER: PETER WHITE WHITE Disability campaigners have long argued that people with learning disabilities should be able to live in the community rather than in long-stay hospitals. Despite this over 750 learning disabled people still have to live in long-stay hospitals in England, even though they're not ill. In March 2001 in its White Paper - Valuing People - the Government said it would shut all the remaining institutions by April 2004. But now the charity Turning Point says that 16 institutions will remain open long after the target date and at least 500 people will still be living in institutions when the deadline passes. They claim that government money, which should have been spent on re-housing people, has gone elsewhere. Jennifer's brother is one of those waiting to be moved out of a long-stay hospital. JENNIFER My brother has been in a long-stay psychiatric hospital now for about 25 years. He has severe learning difficulties but would thrive in a small house. Three years ago we were told that grounds had been found where they could build a bungalow for him and we're still waiting. I feel very angry about the situation and lack of action because my brother has been promised a new home. He's very excited about moving out. The staff where he is now have worked tremendously hard to prepare him to live in the community but nothing's happening. WHITE In 1992 there were 21,000 learning disabled people in long-stay hospitals, now there are only 750. So why does Lord Adebowale, the chief executive of Turning Point, feel so strongly about the deadline being missed? ADEBOWALE We're not arguing that progress hasn't been made, progress has been made, what we're saying is that these 750 people have waited, in some cases, 35 years. We've moved four people out this year who between them have waited 111 years and if you happen to be one of the 750 and you're still waiting, and there's no sign that they're going to meet the target and the Government backs off again, then it's unacceptable. What we're saying is that this is a waiting list that could be eradicated, we could have these 750 people out of long-stay institutions in the community where they should be. WHITE Presumably the very fact that this has taken so long, these individual cases have taken so long, would suggest that they are perhaps difficult, complex cases and community care hasn't always performed brilliantly in these kind of situations, is it definitely the right answer? ADEBOWALE Well I have to say our view is that it's not because they're complex cases. Turning Point as a social care charity moved many complex cases out of long-stay institutions, we don't accept that it's because they're complex cases. WHITE So what do you think the reason is? ADEBOWALE The reason is simply this, there's been a lack of clear leadership from the top and there's been a lack of ring-fenced resourcing and there's a lack of a real push to attack the target. And let me just say that the civil servants that have worked on this have worked very hard and we work very closely with them, what we're really saying is that we need more political leadership and we need someone to say look this has got to stop, it's got to stop now. WHITE When you say there's been no ring-fencing are you suggesting this money has been spent elsewhere? ADEBOWALE Well the problem is that in 1971 there was about 30 million allocated but the issue was that it wasn't money that was specifically designed to move people out of long-stay hospitals and so it was competing with other NHS priorities and lost the battle. And what we're saying is that £50 million focused, ring-fenced, for moving people out of long-stay institutions would work, would move people out of long-stay institutions, give them the lives they deserve. WHITE Lord Adebowale thank you very much indeed. Steven Ladyman is the health minister responsible, we asked him why 16 institutions are still going to be open after April. LADYMAN Well first of all let me say that I'm as disappointed as anybody that they're going to be open beyond the deadline but when we published Valuing People in 2001 I simply think we'd underestimated the effort that was needed to be made to get the final 1500 people who were in long-stay hospitals moved because of the complexity of their needs. This was a process actually that began in 1971 when there was 59,000 people in long-stay hospitals and so a process of closure and moving people was underway. When we published Valuing People we assumed I think that everybody knew that process was underway and we expected everybody to have plans in place already to implement closures. What we actually found with many of these hospitals was that they didn't even think the closure programme applied to them, it came as a bit of a shock to them, they had no plans in place at all. WHITE But I mean this was a very clear cut deadline that you placed and it was April 2004, isn't it very embarrassing that it's not been met? LADYMAN Well it's not embarrassing, it is a major disappointment because we simply thought that people's plans were more advanced when we published Valuing People and we set that deadline than they actually turned out to be. When we first realised we weren't going to make this deadline the learning disability taskforce advised us, and we agreed with them, that it was better to do the job right than to do it quickly. We then began a process of going round the strategic health authorities finding out what their plans were to close the remaining homes and we now are approaching a position where at least we have a firm plan for the closure of each and every one of these long-stay hospitals. WHITE Turning Point has suggested that some of this money has actually been spent elsewhere and that that's part of the problem, is there any truth in that suggestion? LADYMAN I think there probably is some truth in the suggestion because the money that was given to strategic health authorities was not ring-fenced, it was clearly identified for these programmes … WHITE So could you now ring-fence new money? They're asking for £50 million to do this. LADYMAN I'm looking at a number of options that there are available to me. WHITE They will need money, are you prepared to put more money into it and are you prepared to give Turning Point what they're asking for which is a new deadline of December 2004? LADYMAN Well I don't think Turning Point frankly are doing learning disabled people any favours by picking arbitrary deadlines without knowing what the issues are in each particular area where there's a long-stay hospital to be closed. These people have got very complex needs, the remaining people in these long-stay hospitals, and the number one priority has to be to meet those needs. WHITE Steven Ladyman, minister for health. Back to the You and Yours homepage The ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ is not responsible for external websites |
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