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³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Radio 4 In Touch |
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Listen to this programmeFactsheet of this programmeTranscript of this programme Print this page FactsheetPROGRAMME ADDRESSIN TOUCH ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Radio 4 Room 6084 Broadcasting House London W1A 1AA Email: intouch@bbc.co.uk Web: www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/intouch.shtml ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ I-PLAYER Guest: Jonathan Hassell. Head of Audience Experience and Usability The programme discussed the change from Listen Again to ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ i-player and the resulting difficulties in using it for visually impaired listeners. Navigating the i-player using speech recognition software has proved difficult compared with the old listen again system. CONTACTS ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ IPLAYER HELP Tel. 03700 101 338 ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Accessibility http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/ ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Information on making all aspects of using the internet more accessible ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Information on i-player accessibility. CATH BIRCHALL Cath Birchall is travelling round the world on the back of her partner Bernard's motorbike to raise awareness of visual impairment and funds for blind charities. Cath and partner Bernard Smith are somewhere in France at the beginning of what is planned to be a year-long ride around the world. For further information or for details of how to donate, see: Information can also be downloaded in PDF format from: WATER SKIING Every year the British Water-Skiing Association gives opportunities for people with all kinds of disabilities to have a go, and many of those who do are blind or partially-sighted. In Touch reporter, Johny Cassidy, went to his local water-ski club which is affiliated to the British Disabled Water-Skiing Association, to discover just how accessible it is. Find pictures of Johny Water-Skiing . CONTACTS BRITISH DISABLED WATER SKIING ASSOCIATION The Tony Edge National Centre Heron Lake Hythe End Road Wraysbury Middlesex TW19 6HW Tel/Fax: 01784 483664 info@bdwsa.org GENERAL CONTACTS RNIB 105 Judd Street London WC1H 9NE Helpline: 0845 766 9999 (Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm) Tel: 0207 388 1266 (switchboard/overseas callers) Web: The RNIB provides information, support and advice for anyone with a serious sight problem. They not only provide Braille, Talking Books and computer training, but imaginative and practical solutions to everyday challenges. The RNIB campaigns to change society's attitudes, actions and assumptions, so that people with sight problems can enjoy the same rights, freedoms and responsibilities as fully sighted people. They also fund pioneering research into preventing and treating eye disease and promote eye health by running public health awareness campaigns. HENSHAWS SOCIETY FOR BLIND PEOPLE (HSBP) John Derby House 88-92 Talbot Road Old Trafford Manchester M16 0GS Tel: 0161 872 1234 Email: info@hsbp.co.uk Web: Henshaws provides a wide range of services for people who have sight difficulties. They aim to enable visually impaired people of all ages to maximise their independence and enjoy a high quality of life. They have centres in: Harrogate, Knaresborough, Liverpool, Llandudno, Manchester, Newcastle upon Tyne, Salford, Southport and Trafford. THE GUIDE DOGS FOR THE BLIND ASSOCIATION (GDBA) Burghfield Common Reading RG7 3YG Tel: 0118 983 5555 Email: guidedogs@guidedogs.org.uk Web: The GDBA’s mission is to provide guide dogs, mobility and other rehabilitation services that meet the needs of blind and partially sighted people. ACTION FOR BLIND PEOPLE 14-16 Verney Road London SE16 3DZ Tel: 0800 915 4666 (info & advice) Tel: 020 7635 4800 (central office) Web: Registered charity with national cover that provides practical support in the areas of housing, holidays, information, employment and training, cash grants and welfare rights for blind and partially-sighted people. Leaflets and booklets are available. NATIONAL LEAGUE OF THE BLIND AND DISABLED Central Office Swinton House 324 Grays Inn Road London WC1X 8DD Tel: 020 7837 6103 Textphone: 020 7837 6103 National League of the Blind and Disabled is a registered trade union and is involved in all issues regarding the employment of blind and disabled people in the UK. NATIONAL LIBRARY FOR THE BLIND (NLB) Far Cromwell Road Bredbury Stockport SK6 2SG Tel: 0161 406 2525 Textphone: 0161 355 2043 Email: enquiries@nlbuk.org Web: Trustees from the Royal National Institute of the Blind (RNIB) and the National Library for the Blind (NLB) have agreed to merge the library services of both charities as of 1 January 2007, creating the new RNIB National Library Service. EQUALITY AND HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION HELPLINE (England) Freepost RRLL-GHUX-CTRX Arndale House Arndale Centre Manchester M4 3EQ 0845 604 6610 - England main number 0845 604 6620 - England textphone 0845 604 6630 - England fax Mon, Tue, Thu, Fri 9:00 am-5:00 pm; Wed 9:00 am-8:00 pm (last call taken at 7:45pm) EQUALITY AND HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION HELPLINE (Wales) Freepost RRLR-UEYB-UYZL 3rd Floor 3 Callaghan Square Cardiff CF10 5BT 0845 604 8810 - Wales main number 0845 604 8820 - Wales textphone 0845 604 8830 - Wales fax Mon, Tue, Thu, Fri 9:00 am-5:00 pm; Wed 9:00 am-8:00 pm (last call taken at 7:45pm) EQUALITY AND HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION HELPLINE (Scotland) Freepost RRLL-GYLB-UJTA The Optima Building 58 Robertson Street Glasgow G2 8DU 0845 604 5510 - Scotland Main 0845 604 5520 - Scotland Textphone 0845 604 5530 - Scotland – Fax Mon, Tue, Thu, Fri 9:00 am-5:00 pm; Wed 9:00 am-8:00 pm (last call taken at 7:45pm) DISABLED LIVING FOUNDATION 380-384 Harrow Road London W9 2HU Tel: 0845 130 9177 Web: The Disabled Living Foundation provides information and advice on disability equipment. THRIVE The Geoffrey Udall Centre Beech Hill Reading RG7 2AT Tel: 0118 9885688 Email: info@thrive.org.uk Thrive is a national charity, founded in 1978, whose aim is to research, educate and promote the use and advantages of gardening for those with a disability. Thrive’s vision is that the benefits of gardening are known to, and can be accessed by, anyone with a disability. Thrive has been supporting blind gardeners for over 30 years, and established the Blind Gardeners’ Club with RNIB in 2006 to help gardeners share information and techniques. The ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ is not responsible for external websites General contacts Back to top TranscriptIN TOUCHTX: 05.08.08 2040-2100 PRESENTER: PETER WHITE PRODUCER: CHERYL GABRIEL White Good evening. Tonight, we talk to the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ devotees who are not listening again, to the woman who hopes her round-the-world trip on a motorbike will help save sight, and the water-skiers who know no fear… Clip - John Cassidy I'm now at the lake, I'm just about to go in, I've got my wetsuit on, I can't really put it off any longer. White More from Johny Cassidy, taking the plunge, later in the programme. Now, The ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ is very proud of its technology with good reason. Clip - ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ trail If you weren't listening to Front Row the other day you missed this: Also interestingly he flirts with his interviewees, which I think no straight presenter would get away with nowadays ... Luckily you didn't miss this: Also interestingly he flirts with his interviewees, which I think no straight presenter would get away with nowadays ... Our listen again service is now available on ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ i-player, so you can enjoy radio and TV programmes from the last seven days on your computer. ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ i-player, making the unmissable unmissable. White But maybe for listener Michael Worsley the wording should have been a bit more like this: Clip ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ i-player, making the unmissable missable. White Well I'm afraid that's how it seems to Michael Worsley who like so many blind people is a very keen radio listener and he thought that listen again was a great leap forward, he was a real fan. Worsley I do most of my listening on listen again or I did until a few weeks ago. Everything was fine, perfectly accessible, the listen again you had navigation keys to go forward or back, if there was a particular bit of a programme that you wanted to hear again and it no longer works. White So explain what you could do and you can't do now. Worlsey What I could do was to go to the particular radio station that I wanted, find the particular programme, enter it and go to a particular point in that programme. I can't do any of that now. If I'm lucky enough sometimes I can find the radio station, if I do a search - if it happens to be on the page I'm on that's okay but if I'm on the page and it's just showing the As for instance, and my programme isn't there, it doesn't do a global search. If I can happen to get to the programme that I want it says something like audio play, which you'd think is the thing you want, you hit enter and nothing happens. I borrow a pair of eyes to find out what's going on and I'm told that there's a tiny little button which you can't access via your arrow keys or the mouse keys, it has to be done by the mouse itself, there's a tiny little button and unless you hit that you can't play it. For instance, you hear the Today programme and there's a rather interesting Thought for the Day, which is what an hour and three quarters on, you'd have to listen to the whole programme. And much as I like Jim Naughtie and John Humphrys, I don't necessarily want to do that. I'm not saying that no one can do this, you may have some listeners that are computer whiz kids that will say well I've had no problem but that's not what listen again is about, it's for the punter and that's me. White Do you know of other blind people who are having the same problem... Worlsey Yes, I've talked to lots of people and they're having the same problems. If they could have kept up the old version while they modify this one, if that's what they have to do, but they've dumped us. I'm not happy Peter, I'm not happy. White Mike Worsley, not happy. So, why has the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ apparently failed to meet its promises about accessible technology? Well I'm joined by Jonathan Hassell who's head of audience experience and usability. Jonathan, you've heard what Mike has to say, I mean what's your initial reaction? Hassell Well firstly I'd like to thank Mike for giving us his feedback. The only real way of getting an idea of how well our products are working for our audiences is when we get comments back from them. And I am aware that a number of blind people found the transition from the existing listen again service to the new i-player difficult ... White So have you heard that from other people? Hassell Yeah, we've heard it from a few people and to a certain extent that was bound to happen because the i-player, it works in a different way. But probably more important than that it includes much more content to navigate around - it includes TV as well as radio - and so by implication it's therefore a much more complicated service. White Because you see that's what some blind people will say - if it weren't broke you shouldn't have to fix it, why did you need to go from a system that they thought was absolutely fantastic to one that clearly some are finding much more difficult? Hassell We have to look at our whole audience and one of the things that the new i-player does is to enable the audience to see the broad range of what we do as the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ, both radio and TV. I'm hazarding a guess that some blind users will find some of the TV that they can now get access to on i-player useful, we haven't got audio description there yet but we're working on it. White Many blind people of course use television, that's the whole point of audio description, and we accept that but you know if it was known that there were problems with this have enough efforts been made to draw them to the attention of blind people, shouldn't it have been that way round rather than this way round where they have to come to us? Hassell Well you're right in saying that maybe we could have handled our communications better and that we could have helped blind users with the transition between one product and the other a little bit more clearly and that's something that I'm taking away today. White So you're saying this is accessible if you know the right things? Hassell Yes I was using i-player with the Jaws screen reader yesterday and when I was using it some of the things he was saying that were only available with a mouse is simply not the case. So ... White But presumably you have to know then the right keystrokes in order to get to where you want to get? Hassell No, the whole of i-player uses exactly the same keystrokes and sort of navigation that anybody would use with a screen reader. So I'm slightly puzzled as to why Mike can navigate to pages of programmes but then finds it difficult to tab around the different pages within them. White One of the things that Mike felt most strongly about was this business of actually being able to search an individual programme, which he said he could do in the past, he was now finding very difficult. What about that? Hassell What we're using at the moment is something that we call a scrub bar, it's used in most video sites on the internet which is why we're using it because it's very, very useable for most people. He's right in saying it's not particularly good for blind people. We've looked out there to see if there were any sites that were doing it well and none of them were. So we've done a lot of research, that research is coming to a close at the moment and we're anticipating having keyboard short cuts for all of the transport controls by early October. We've spent a lot of time with some blind accessibility experts all the way through the project, making sure that it's as accessible as we can make it. There's probably still more things that we could do in making it more usable. White Yeah. Now I have to say in defence of you we also talked to one of our totally blind consultants who we talk to about this, he said to some extent what you said - he said it was navigable but he agreed with Mike Worsley that it was more difficult than it was. So I suppose the key thing now is what of those solutions are practical, how can we get more information to people, do we need a users forum, do we perhaps need some kind of user manual or at least a sheet which says these are the things you need to do? Hassell Well I think that's the one main thing I'm taking away from today, from Mike's feedback, is that I think we've got some more work to do in explaining to people how the new site works and maybe how to get the best out of it with whatever type of screen reader I'm guessing that they'll be using. White Jonathan Hassell thank you very much indeed. And we'll stay with this - we'd like to hear from others of you of course with the same problem, and we'd also like to hear from people who've solved it with your tips to Mike and anyone else. Now, to someone who's set on solving her own problems. A blind woman, two wheels, and 25,000 miles, is one description of Cath Birchall's round-the-world trip on the back of her partner Bernard's motorbike. You may remember hearing Cath on last week's programme talking about the importance of regular eye tests, even when you are already blind. Well today Cath and Bernard Smith are somewhere in France at the beginning of what's planned to be a year-long ride around the world, raising awareness of visual impairment and, simultaneously, funds for blind charities. Both have taken sabbaticals and Bernard has sold his house to fund the trip. And as Cath told Mani Djazmi before she left, for her, the journey is also a voyage of discovery, and the culmination of significant changes in her life. Birchall I was settled with my husband for 20 odd years and then unfortunately he got leukaemia and died. That was nine years ago, so obviously that was a massive change for me. At the time I'd just got my first guide dog, so I was just beginning to get my independence which was meant to be because I was ended up left on my own. And I worked for my husband in his own business, so then I had to think what am I going to do. So I studied and I eventually got a job, it took a while, but I've now got a job that I do like, I love and I've met Bernard. So there's been a lot of change in the last say 10 years - some for the bad, some for good - and meeting Bernard was obviously the best one. Djazmi On In Touch we've had people in the past who have done things to raise awareness and they do maybe the odd marathon or two or parachute out of a plane, something which won't take a year of their life to do, so why have you decided to ride around the world for the next year? Birchall Some people's perception of someone who's visually-impaired, they think they sit at home and do nothing and I want to change that. I know what I'm doing is quite extreme but people can do a lot regardless of their visual-impairment. I want to visit other visually-impaired organisations in different countries and see what the perception is in different cultures as well, which will be quite interesting. Djazmi A lot of your time will obviously be spent on the back of the bike, so will you be able to gauge some sense of your surroundings as you go through the continents? Birchall Yes a company's fortunately sponsored us and provided an intercom system where we can talk to each other through the helmets. Bernard will describe the scenery and that sort of thing but I can always pick up from my other senses - my hearing, my feeling. So, for example, on one of our test runs a couple of years ago we were travelling down the motorway at about 80 mile an hour and I smelt the food from a service area, you can get the smell of the countryside, you know the freshly mown lawns or when you're in a town you get all the sort of cooking smells and that sort of thing. So there's lots of ways that I can pick up my own surroundings but the intercom system is invaluable, I wouldn't like to sit on the back of the bike for that length of time without that. Djazmi It would be pretty dull wouldn't it. Birchall It certainly would, yes. Djazmi Bernard's been riding motorbikes for years, I understand, what about you, I mean you mentioned that you had this dry run a couple of years ago, how much experience have you had of riding on the back of a bike? Birchall I'd never been on a bike till I met Bernard. We did a test run through the French Alps and the Pyrenees and that was wonderful, I mean you went through tunnels and the vibration of the exhaust through the tunnels was really exciting. Djazmi Well we'd certainly like to keep tabs on you and check in on your once in a while to hear about your trips and the people that you meet but apart from via In Touch how else can people keep track of you? Birchall We have got a website and we are going to update that, hopefully, every week with photographs, video footage and people can sponsor us through that site through just giving as well. Djazmi You mentioned earlier that you're looking forward to meeting lots of visually-impaired people around the world, so would you mind keeping an ear out for their stories and letting us know about them? Birchall Of course we will, we'll see what we come across and who we come across and yes definitely keep in touch with you. White Cath Birchall. The world will soon be covered with blind people doing audio diaries for In Touch, she was talking there to Mani Djazmi. Of course there's more than one way to get that adventure bug out of your system, and as regular In Touch listeners will know, it's very hard to think of any sport that visually-impaired people haven't had a go at at one time or another. Water-skiing is certainly high on the list, and every year the British Water-Skiing Association gives opportunities for people with all kinds of disabilities to have a go, and many of those who do are blind or partially-sighted. One of those keen to join them was our most recent reporter recruit, Johny Cassidy, who went to his local water-ski club which is affiliated to the British Disabled Water-Skiing Association, to find out just how accessible it is. Cassidy I have come to Ellingham Lakes which is near Ringwood in Hampshire. It's a beautiful day for water-skiing. I'm going to get out on to the lake and just find out exactly what blind water-skiing does entail. The sun is - it's disappeared behind the clouds a bit and wind is coming up, I don't know if that's going to be a factor or not but I think it's going to be all the more exhilarating So I'm going to go nip in and put on my wetsuit and I'll be back out in a second to see what all the fuss is about. Ian and Ken are both from the Ellingham Waterski and Wakeboard Club and they're going to talk me through this. Guys, this is what you call dry land tuition? Ken That's correct yes. Ian First of all we need to get down on the ground, so we need the three of us sit down on the ground. Cassidy Actually sit right down? Ian Sit right down yeah. Okay you hold the bar - both hands, knuckles on top and as wide as you can. Right both feet forward about shoulders distance apart. Cassidy So we'll just explain this. This is what they call the triple bar, isn't it, you will be coming out on the to water with me, one on each side, and acting as guides with one just long extended bar, this is about maybe two metres of a bar, it's like a brush shaft, I suppose, that's the best way to put it and the three of us are hanging on to it and the three lines are coming out and going down towards the boat. Ken Yes. What we need to do is your feet need to be flat on the ground facing forwards, about shoulder distance apart. That's great. No problem there. When we get into a good position, which we've got now, my hand is under your arm, Ian's hand is under the other arm and that is giving support when the pull comes on. Cassidy And as Ken said we're all sort of intertwined - our arms are intertwined - which is going to be give me the support, hopefully, when I'm out on the water. Ian Right, I will shout to the driver "In gear", he'll put the boat into gear, the pull will start to come, at this point you keep your arms straight and your knees bent, let the boat pull us out the water, don't try to stand, just let the boat pull. Now nice and steady, ease forward, ease forward on to your feet. Cassidy We've just all crumpled on the ground. Right let's try again. The three of us are sitting in position and the boat is going to pull. Ken Right, in gear and hit it and hold there, keep in that position. Right you're stood too far up, so down a little, knees bent a bit more, great. We hold that position until you're looking steady and nice and firm in the water. Then if you're looking good .... Cassidy It was all very well talking to Ian and Ken about water-skiing but they could see, I wanted to find out just exactly what to expect out there from someone who's in the same position as me. Earlier on I had been introduced to another member of the club - Peter Sheath is a former world champion blind water-skier - and I decided to ask him for any of his hints and tips. Sheath You need to keep your head up, keep your arms straight, keep your knees bent and use them as shock absorbers and just relax and enjoy it. Cassidy And is there anything that I have to look out for to stop myself coming a cropper? Sheath Not necessarily, I say if you keep your knees bent and your arms straight you won't have any problems, even though it's a bit choppy out there today, it'll be good fun. Instructor Alright Johny, we've got a life jacket for you. Cassidy I'm now at the lake just about to go in, I've got my wetsuit on, I can't really put it off any longer. That was fantastic. I just came a cropper there - I went in. The skis just separated from me. But it was fantastic fun. Really, really good fun. I think I'll have another go now guys. Wow that's me back in the boat now, that is the most tiring thing I think I have done in a long time. I tried to do the last pull there but my arms were just so tired that I think I'm going to call it a day. But if you want anymore details about blind water-skiing at Ellingham Lakes and Wakeboard Club you could check out our action line and I'm going to go now for a nice hot cup of coffee. White Well, Johny, you enjoy that coffee. I too have had a go at water-skiing and, like you, I ended up headfirst in the drink. That number that Johny mentioned for the action line, 0800 044 044. From me Peter White, my producer Cheryl Gabriel, and the rest of the team, goodbye. Back to top |
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