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05th November 2024

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 132

Presented by Emma Tracey

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EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hello, Access Allers, it’s me, Emma Tracey from the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ’s one and only disability and mental health podcast. Yup, it’s Access All. I’m ADHD! No, You’re Not, that is a new podcast from hosts Dr Mine Conkbayir and her husband, comedy actor Paul Whitehouse. Now, Mine she’s an expert on early childhood was diagnosed with ADHD last year, and Paul has struggled to understand why so many celebrities and comedians have also been told that they have it. So, they get someone every episode, a famous person, get them in, ask them about all things ADHD, and they have a really good laugh. It’s really good fun. And I’ve been listening avidly for the last few weeks and luckily for me Mine and Paul are here to tell me all about it.

MUSIC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Theme music.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We do dip into some difficult topics, including domestic abuse, so if this is something you don’t feel you’re able to listen to at the moment skip this one. It’s a fascinating chat and I hope you enjoy it.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Dr Mine Conkbayir and comedy actor Paul Whitehouse, you’re very welcome to Access All.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you very much, Emma.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you for having us.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Now, I gave a little flavour of what the podcast’s about, but tell me a little bit more about what the episodes are and why you decided to make it.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’d rather you did, but I will because, you know, I don’t want to talk over you though. We do a lot of that.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s like always; it doesn’t matter.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Mine says that’s one of the traits of ADHD, we…you interrupt and talk over people.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I thought you were going to say we interrupt.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, we, I said we.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I wanted to raise awareness and build understanding of what ADHD really is and smash some myths along the way. We’ve got a wide range of female guests as well, and the one thing they all had in common was that they were all misdiagnosed with anxiety and depression throughout their lives. The older female guest misdiagnosed with perimenopause. And I just wanted to raise awareness. We just need so much more research done on ADHD in girls and women so that they are better supported, instead of being dosed up with the wrong medicines, or medicine at all in fact.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Or therapies even.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, absolutely. And it’s been a great vehicle for enabling our guests to open up about some really deep, deep experiences.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We try to have a laugh and entertain because obviously that’s my sort of role really in life, Emma [laughter].

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I was going to say, a podcast is a bit of a departure from what you usually do.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I know. But we try to bring some humour into it because, as I’m sure you’re aware, you need humour in every element of life, however difficult and tricky. And sometimes dark humour actually gets us through some very difficult and tricky things.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But we’re not trivialising it. We’re very aware that for every successful person we drag on to the podcast and they explain their ADHD and how it might even have helped them, we know that there are countless others with ADHD for whom it is an absolutely nightmare.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And I think we try and encompass that.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Paul, what was your reaction when Mine did actually get an official diagnosis? What did you say or what did you think?

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It didn’t surprise me. I play devil’s advocate sometimes on the podcast, but only to open up the debate a bit, because we’re not big fans of the definition ADHD; it seems to describe a sort of multitude of behaviours. Also you especially don’t like the deficit terminology, do you?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, deficit, defects, disorders, it’s so negative. And we internalise that as ADHDers.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, ADHD is?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And what would you like it to be called?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What does my daughter call it: you and your…?

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Overthinking syndrome. There we go, that’s a good one, isn’t it? [laughs]

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Simon May calls it fidgetitis.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, that’s my favourite one [laughs].

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Johnny Vegas says we’re uniquely wired, which we are, it’s a difference. It is a difference, but nowhere in the literature is it proven that it is actually a disorder of a brain.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It shows up differently for different people, ADHD, doesn’t it?

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And it kind of means different things to different people. And you’ve got some terms that you use or that have come up, Mine, and I just want you to explain them for me. So, dopa mining?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Dopa mining is us going on a hunt looking for activities that make us feel good that release the dopamine.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Because there’s a belief that people with ADHD don’t have sufficient stocks of dopamine.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, there’s an issue of dopamine regulation. This is a fact, that’s just a standard given really.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I have another one: doom piling?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Basically using the chairdrobe instead of a wardrobe, so you’re piling all your washing or your to-dos somewhere in a nice pile. You know exactly what’s in that pile but will you touch it and sort it out? No, it becomes a doom pile.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But that could be relating to anxiety as well though, couldn’t it?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh yeah, anxiety around opening letters. Johnny Vegas, who you mocked mercilessly for.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh did you? Oh, for not opening his letters?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I’m not that good at opening my letters. I’ll let them build up for about a week and then I’ll have a go.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý A week? No, Emma, years.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, that’s not true.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, we always ask our guests the same two last questions, and that is: would you keep your ADHD or would you banish it? And many of them do say they’d like to keep it, but some really do struggle with it. So, even though we’re on the outside looking in thinking wow, that person’s really successful and famous and this and that, and they’re thinking no, ADHD is the bane of my life, I hate it. But I think that’s more of a societal issue that still needs to be addressed. ADHD in my experience, and it’s a tough journey for me too, as it is for many of us ADHDers, it can be wonderful, liberating, exciting, the creativity we have that is unfettered and it lends itself to so many things and so much good. But we live in a society that is still unable to keep up with ADHD and support children and adults alike in ways that are meaningful. So, we’re getting children that are failed pretty much from school. They ended up filling that what we call school to prison pipeline because the teachers don’t understand, blah, blah, blah.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, not blah, blah, but just I want to give some context to why you are going down this road and why you’re talking about this. Because we know who Paul is, Fast Show, Gone Fishing.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Do we? Do we really? Do we really know the real me? [Laughs]

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We know who his on-screen persona is anyway, and we know that he brings the humour and the kind of partner understanding etc etc to the table. But tell me who you are and what you bring to it, because you’ve got a lot behind you and you’ve thought a lot about ADHD and how it affects different people.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I do have to talk about my early childhood trauma because it’s made me who I am. And I thought up until my therapist recently made a joke, something about, ‘Of course you’re ADHD’, and I was sat there, like, quite a shock, ‘No, it’s complex trauma’. ‘Mine, really?’ I was like, ‘Should I get an assessment?’ And then that led me down to the path of the ADHD. But that’s recent; that was September 2023.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I did witness my dad, and I really don’t use that term in any real sense of the word, batter my mum, stab my mum, break her arm, her eye socket in front of me. And this was daily. It was day, it was night. There was financial domestic abuse going on where she had to steal money from his pockets to feed us. The drug use, the drug smuggling when I was ten. He got caught for heroin smuggling, served six of 12 years. The day I started my A-levels he was deported. And I didn’t realise that any of this was out of the norm growing up because it was very much my normality, to the point where even if I see a 2.4 family setup now it gives me the heebie- jeebies. I can’t deal with it.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You’ve said that to me before. There are times I think Mine’s trauma is so deep that actually she doesn’t really like calm.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, I hate it, I can’t…

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You know what I mean, Emma? She almost has to destabilise a calm situation.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That must be very difficult to detangle…

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh, it’s hell for me.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, because it’s all about him [laughter].

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý …the ADHD from the PTSD then.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, because…

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And that’s the thing, isn’t it?

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hmm.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý …there are obviously differentiations to be made via the flashbacks, which can be emotional or physical; the nightmares, I have those too, frequently, daily…nightly rather.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And I think there is way more than ADHD what you endured as a child. And also quite possibly – you can correct me if I’m wrong here – triggered your ADHD, because there’s certain traumatic events can trigger it. But you have other problems I think.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý There is huge overlap in the symptoms of PTSD and complex trauma and ADHD, we know this now, it’s well understood. So, it is really tricky to navigate life. And I am a mum, and just yesterday we were having a great chat with my 12 year-old, very wise, and I apologised again for the times when I snap. She said, ‘Yeah, because I don’t actually do anything wrong’. I said, ‘I can hand on heart say you’ve never done anything wrong. It’s been because I’m in a bad place and I am dysregulated, I don’t feel good inside and it needs to come out’. She was like, ‘Well, you do need to do something about it then’. I’m like, ‘Well, I am in therapy, you know’. [Laughter]

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s really interesting because I’m obsessed with parenting and disability and mental health because I have children too. But what’s really interesting is how much you tell your children and how much you talk to your children about what’s going on right in your head. Is honesty the best policy?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Absolutely. You know your children best. It’s not so much about their ages, but their emotional ability to understand and absorb without being upset. You know what they can handle.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s not going to put ideas in their heads to tell them about it?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, it is nothing but healthy and important. You are being a great role model. You are normalising having mental health to your children. How beautiful is that? They can then identify dysregulation in themselves; they can flag it to you, and you can talk about what they want to do to help make it better for them. You can come up with strategies together. Like my daughter chews on ice, she takes herself in nature, she takes photos of trees, the outdoors because it’s soothing for her. I say sorry to my children. It’s so important to own your wrongdoings, and when you feel like you’ve hurt them when they’re telling you that upset me.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What about your partner? You’ve been together a long time, 20 years or something like that?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I think so, yeah.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Probably presumably reasonably different brains?

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Seems longer.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý [Laughs] how do you guys rub along together? Are there things that are tricky in terms of mental health and ADHD?

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, I’m great and Mine’s not.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Can I nip in and say something really important? He is the yin to my yang. I mean, ADHD as you know, rejection sensitivity dysphoria, RSD is massive, and the root of that is our propensity to be very easily emotionally dysregulated. So, what do I mean? The slightest little thing and we can kick off, we can get really upset; we’re sensitive to what we think is criticism. He could just be sat there and I’ll go, ‘Why are you looking at me like that? What’s that tone for?’ And he’ll know, oh man, this is the ADHD in action, you know. And he’s always very calm. He never, ever reacts to my ADHDness, do you?

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Only inside [laughs].

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý On the inside he’s probably imploding but moving forward...

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Sometimes I stand my ground a bit. You’re almost trying to destabilise a calm situation. This is my point about you…

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh, I don’t feel I do that at all.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, no but I do. As I say, I think…

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý News to me, Emma.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, I just…

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I think you’ve just started an argument.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, I just say you actually find a calm situation difficult sometimes and you need… You’ve said it before, when you were young growing up you were almost waiting for that conflict to happen.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I was waiting, absolutely.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It was almost a relief, you know, when the argument started between your parents.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes, but I don’t think that manifests in the present as I want to destroy a healthy relationship with you. But, and again where does the ADHD start and where does the trauma start, Emma? Because he’s right in that I generally need bags of stimulation. So, for example, I’ll be very quick…

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I keep going, oh… Sorry.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý …I’ll be very quick, but I’m sure many ADHDers will relate to this, actually I’m the opposite, but I like bright lights. I don’t only have music on, I’ve got the TV on and the radio on, and I need noise. For me it’s the most soothing environment. Is it because I grew up with shouting pretty much constantly? I didn’t have an opportunity to study in peace or muck about and play in peace. I’d be in the toilet on the toilet seat or under the coffee table while my dad, let’s face it, was battering my mum and I was getting on. So, for me now quiet and calm is deeply disturbing to my nervous system. I need it to have something to go on so that I can focus.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And Paul, you like fishing, so that says to me that you like calm at times?

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes [laughs], I do seek it out. But I’m very happy, I put the radio on, but I don’t need it like Mine does from room to room.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You ask all of your guests, or all of the ones I’ve heard so far, about medication and meds for ADHD. And actually it’s something also that we talk about a lot on this podcast. We’ve talked to people who, because of a shortage of medication, their lives have been put on hold, bad things have happened, it’s really, really stressful. We’ve talked in and out about the different medication for ADHD. But why do you always ask people about medication? Where do medication and ADHD meet for you?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý They don’t meet for me. I am anti-meds. I find it so offensive that I’m being told that I should take a tablet to make it easier for people to love me. So, is this how we treat our children, our ADHDers?

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But that’s not why most people take it though, is it? They take medication to help the chaos be a little bit less or…

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But we can help ourselves make the chaos be a little bit less. And this is how: we understand more about regulating our emotions and our behaviour as a consequence. But too fast medication is doled out to children, particularly to make them more compliant at school. This is just a given.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But what about an adult who’s making an adult choice? An adult who is working, an adult who has had a decent education, an adult who knows what they are capable of and what they’re able to do and what they’re not able to do, what if they choose?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Okay, adults have a choice to make, that’s absolutely within their rights to do so. But my issue is from school we should be teaching children, particularly our neurodivergent children…actually let me take that back, not teaching them but coregulating their emotions and subsequent behaviours before we medicate them. And this goes for adults too, depressed adults, anxious adults. I’ve been prescribed every sort of medication for my anxiety, depression and ADHD; I’ve said no to them all. I’m still here. And I have a toolkit of coping strategies that I’ve developed with the support of therapists and whoever else along the way. And I don’t medicate.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What’s in your toolkit?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Journaling, the talking therapy, massive, the mindfulness, the deep breathing, the grounding. I’ll do random things on the spot when I feel my heart starting to race. It could be I’m sat in this room and I start feeling panicked, I’ll start counting the books over there on that left-hand table, I will start counting bits of fabric on the floor, I will start doing the body scanning, feeling my feet way up to my head. There’s all sorts of things that you can do that you don’t need to take that citalopram, whatever it is. I’ve learned to adapt.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But I mean, that’s a very personal view. That is your view.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh, I’m not the only one.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, of course you’re not the only one. But as Emma’s saying, for a lot of people meds work.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Would you ever go down the diagnosis path, Paul? Would you ever look into it?

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, I would. We’ve sort of explored that route a bit, haven’t we?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, but don’t give too much away.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, we don’t want to give too much away yet.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý There’s a documentary, isn’t there?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes [laughter], something’s brewing.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I was going to say a Netflix series, but you know, if you’re reducing us to a simple documentary.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý A Hollywood movie [laughter]. Okay, we’ll stick with the Hollywood movie.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I think there’s certainly a lot of comedians have ADHD. The ADHD brain seems to function quite well in that world, the world of comedy where you can flit between thoughts and ideas very quickly. And I’m almost boring myself when I say Mine and I went to see a standup comedy show, it was an open mic night, and two of my friends were doing their standup routine, one for the first time ever. And of the ten or so performers that came on at least five – and it’s no exaggeration, is it? – opened with, ‘Good evening. I’m ADHD’.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Have your thoughts changed about ADHD since starting the podcast, Paul? Have you learned things? Have your thoughts, your ideas changed on it?

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý To be honest I’ve always been open about the concept of ADHD. I’m surprised that it’s so prevalent, and I think everybody has picked up on that. There’s some people are dismissive of ADHD and I’m certainly not one of those.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What do you want the audience to get from this podcast?

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’ll answer this one: an open mind.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s good.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Lovely. Mine?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Ooh, self-belief and support.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, you do have a website that people can go and have a look at resources and stuff like that as well.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý As you say in the description, it’s not just a bit of fun.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, I don’t want it to be just a bit of fun. Yes, entertaining, absolutely; that’s what Paul’s for. But I also want it to be educational, and I do want to push boundaries. We do talk about issues that can be really challenging for some but they’re real, and they’re experienced by me, by Paul, by our guests, issues around self-harm, suicide ideation which are quite common among ADHDers. I want no holds barred, I want it to be a safe space, and I think we’re creating that in all seriousness.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, you do a lot with that. We asks for the guests’ go-to support, things that have helped them.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I want to finish on a positive note, and I know a lot of things about ADHD can be hard, but I’ve got some amazing colleagues with ADHD who do amazing things with their amazing ADHD brains. What’s your favourite thing or the best thing for you about having an ADHD brain?

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Really out-of-the-box thinking and linking.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý If I were to concede that I am an ADHDer I would say it’s helped me create a lot of comedy, because I can I suppose, without blowing my own trumpet too much, I can have an idea very quickly, a character, and I can live that character almost immediately and imagine a scenario very quickly, and go into the voice, go into the lifestyle and, you know, the…

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Hyper-focus on it?

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, the podcast is called:

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’m ADHD!

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, You’re Not.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And it can be found in all the usual places, and it is a great listen. Thank you so much, Dr Mine Conkbayir and Paul Whitehouse for joining me.

MINE-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you very much.

PAUL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you, Emma.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What a fascinating chat that was. Both of them are such interesting people. Now, we did contact the Royal College of Psychiatrists about medication for ADHD. They said, ‘People who have ADHD often rely on medication as a core part of their treatment, alongside other forms of care such as psychological therapy and peer support groups. They can also benefit from maintaining a balanced diet and regular exercise, as well as reasonable adjustments at school, university or work’.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý If you’ve been affected by anything you’ve heard on this podcast the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Action Line is available on 0800 110 100. There’s also a special section on ADHD there which has links to organisations which have advice about the condition. Please do get in touch with us about this episode or anything else, and you can contact us in all the usual ways: you can email accessall@bbc.co.uk. You can find us on social media @³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖAccessAll. And you can even send us a voice message or a text message via WhatsApp, our number is 0330 123 9480, and do just pop the word Access before your message because it makes it easier to find us. That’s it for this week. See you next time. Bye.

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