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30th July 2024

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 115

Presented by Paul Carter 

PAUL- Hello, it’s Access All. I’m Paul Carter. I’ve actually just got back to the UK after a few days away. I’ve been in Paris at a small little warmup event for the Paralympics known as the Olympic Games, which we all know is really the dress rehearsal for the real deal in a few weeks’ time. And also, completely unrelated, today actually happens to be my birthday, so I have the best present of all: talking to all of you. Anyway, on with the show. 

MUSIC- Theme music. 

PAUL- This is Access All, the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ’s podcast all about disability and mental health. I’m Paul Carter, and they’ve let me come back. Thank you for having me again. I’m in the hotseat while Emma Tracey is away. Coming up: the people taking action to get accessible housing to the top of the new government’s agenda; and the inside track on some of Para GB’s athletes. If you like what you hear don’t forget to subscribe, tell your friends all about us and get in touch, accessall@bbc.co.uk on email, @³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖAccessAll on the socials. And have you got your free tickets to our live recording at the Edinburgh Festivals yet? Comedians including Adam Hills and Matt Forde will be joining Emma on stage on 9th August at 3pm at Dynamic Earth. You can apply for tickets online from ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Shows and Tours. Let’s get going. 

The lack of accessible housing is a huge issue for many disabled people across the UK. But with a new government in place 29 disability and inclusion organisations, including housing association Habinteg and Inclusion London have delivered a letter to the Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, to push the issue to the top of his agenda. The end of July marked two years since the former Conservative government promised to look into raising minimum accessibility standards, so all new-builds in the UK could be easily adapted as the owner required. During the last parliament there was one consultation, and talk of a second, but in the end no new legislation was introduced. The 29 organisations are hoping a new Labour government might do things differently. As well as delivering the letter to Downing Street, campaigners gathered in London for a day of action, including my two guests, Sam Cornelius-Light and chair of Inclusion London, Adam Gabsi. Hello to you both. 

ADAM- Hi Paul.

SAM- Hello.

PAUL- Adam, I’m going to start with you, if I may. Can you outline what some of the frustrations are when it comes to finding accessible housing? 

ADAM- Housing is not designed in a way that you can adapt if you were to become disabled, which obviously is difficult. And I faced it when I moved into my flat. My flat is now M4(3) standard. I’m able to be a wheelchair user and live independently, but when I first moved in, my bathroom wasn’t ready for me so I had to remove the bath. Now, due to the design being okay I was able to do that. Now, what we’re asking for is homes, the standard to be M4(2), which means homes can be adapted if you were to become disabled. 

PAUL- So, you talked about M4(2) and M4(3) and probably most of our listeners won’t understand what those mean and what those are. What kinds of adaptations are we talking about and what’s the difference between those two types of regulations? 

ADAM- Okay, M4(2) is adaptable and accessible. If you were to become disabled it should be able to be made into your needs. So, whatever you need as a disabled person there shouldn’t be the design restrictions to limit your access requirement. 

PAUL- And so none of this is actually mandated at that moment? There’s no legal requirement to build to this standard, is that right?

ADAM- At the moment there is no requirement. We are lucky to live in London in the sense where our mayor has mandated 10% of all new-build homes to be wheelchair accessible. Now, they’re not meeting that target, which is a separate issue and we keep campaigning for them to meet the 10% target. However, there are certain areas in England that are not even meeting 1%.

PAUL- I’ve got some facts here to read out. According to social housing association Habinteg there are 104,000 people on council waiting lists for adapted housing, which could take 47 years to house at current rates. And according to the Centre for Ageing Better, which is also a signatory to the letter, 82,000 accessible and adaptable homes have been built since 2022. But if the minimum standards that you’re talking about had been brought in two years ago a further 250,000 homes could have been constructed. 

ADAM- They are ridiculous statistics if you think about it. You’d think with an ageing population this would be kind of common sense and we should we working towards that anyway, but it’s just not happening. The design flaws are still there, and we need the new government to work towards making access fairer. 

PAUL- So, I just want to bring in our other guest, Sam, at this point. Sam, you live in Bristol but you travelled to London to take part in the day of action. You’re 25 and a wheelchair user and you had a challenging time with accessible housing after you graduated from university. Can you just tell me a little bit about your experience and your story?

SAM- Yeah, so a little bit about my story was that I graduated in university. Obviously at that time I was living in university halls. Usually in university halls you’re only there for a year and then you go into student housing. I was there for the duration of my degree because there wasn’t any accessible student housing. So, obviously when I finished my university degree I was not eligible to stay in the university halls. I’d been on the council waiting list for finding an adaptable, accessible property for two years prior, and they hadn’t found anything yet. When it came to the day that I was leaving university accommodation they still hadn’t found anything, and so I was put into emergency accommodation. I was placed into a hotel; and it wasn’t just one hotel, I moved around between two hotels over a period of two months, which was very disruptive, especially with the equipment that I need and my care and support needs as well. 

PAUL- I was going to say, that doesn’t sound like that’s something that was very practical for your situation? 

SAM- No, it wasn’t at all, and it was a really isolating experience because being at a hotel is nice for a couple of days, but for two months it’s a horrible experience. 

PAUL- So, how did this situation affect other areas of your life? Did it affect your ability to socialise and all those other things that we do? Because housing is such a critical part of our life, isn’t it? What was that like for you? 

SAM- One of the most significant things for me was not being able to cook for myself. A lot of the time I was reliant on takeaways or expensive restaurant food, because there was nowhere for me to cook my own meals. Being in the same room for days on end it wasn’t a nice experience. 

PAUL- So, what requirements do you have in terms of the housing that you need?

SAM- I need it to be fully accessible, flat, access to all areas, wider doorways, a wet room. A wet room bathroom is critical to me. And also I would need installation of appropriate equipment, such as a ceiling track hoist, which is where Adam was talking about the M4(2) which is adaptable so that I could have that equipment fitted. So if it was an M4(1) property I would struggle to have that fitted. 

PAUL- And what’s the situation now? Are you still in hotels and temporary accommodation or are you in a permanent place now? 

SAM- I was in temporary accommodation and hotels for around a year and five months in total. But since January ’23 I’ve been in where I am now which is fully M4(3) adapted, with a ceiling track hoist and all the equipment I need to live independently. It’s taken a long time to get here but I’m finally where I wanted to be straight after finishing university. 

PAUL- It’s great to hear that you got there eventually. What difference has it made to your life? How different are things for you now? 

SAM- So, I’m able to meet up with friends. I’m able to do my shopping locally, which before I couldn’t. Because obviously being in a hotel moving around I couldn’t settle myself in there, I couldn’t unpack anything. I had to sort of live out of a suitcase. 

PAUL- We did reach out to South Gloucestershire Council about your experience and this is what they had to say:

‘South Gloucestershire Council has a good record of delivering affordable homes that meet accessible policy standards. However, when a resident has additional needs it can be difficult to identify and secure suitable housing in an area that the person wishes to live. Council teams work together to find a property with the adaptions required, but it can take time to find a suitable property in the specific area.’

Adam, you were one of the organisers of the day of action. Now, some people listening might say well, the new government has only just been formed, isn’t this is a little bit premature. Shouldn’t you be giving them a little bit more time? 

ADAM- No, we shouldn’t. I mean, the last government had 14 years and failed to do anything. I’m not happy to give the government 14 days, 14 minutes. We need to get onto them and make sure that they prioritise accessible housing, especially in social housing to be honest. Because to me there is no point in having accessible housing if the housing is not affordable, and there is no point in having affordable housing if the housing is not accessible. 

PAUL- And you invited some MPs along to the event. Did any attend? And if so what was the music, was there anything encouraging to take away?

ADAM- Yeah, we had one MP, Ben Coleman, who is a newly appointed Labour MP for Hammersmith & Fulham [sic CORR Chelsea and Fulham]. He came, he spoke, he was very happy with the 1.5 million new homes that they’re planning to build. We will work with Ben to make him understand the need for accessibility. At Inclusion London we’re great believers in the social model of disability, and that’s with all of the deaf and disabled people’s organisations that support our petition. The heart of someone’s society is their house, so literally society begins where you live. 

PAUL- So, we did speak with the government to find out what they thought about this. A Ministry of Housing Communities and Local Government spokesperson said: 

‘Housing is one of the government’s top priorities. Everyone deserves to live in a decent, accessible home they feel safe in. We will set out policies on accessible housing in due course.’

Adam, are you pleased to hear that? 

ADAM- Yes and no. Do they really understand? Are they really going to coproduce going forward? We can’t afford to not hold this government to account for what they’re doing. So, they really need to go on recess this summer, come back and really have a strategy for how we’re going to move forward. 

PAUL- Well, if you do hear from the government about their plans you’ll have to come back and tell us all about it. Thank you so much Adam and Sam. If you want to hear more of Sam’s story you can find a full documentary, just type in My Name is Sam into ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Sounds. And if you’re listening at home and this is resonating with your own housing situation do get in touch and tell us all about it in all the usual ways. We’re accessall@bbc.co.uk on email, or @³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖAccessAll on social media.

The Olympics have begun. The Paralympics are in touching distance. And having just returned from Paris I can tell you that Olympics and Paralympics fever is well underway. But what really struck me about being in Paris is it’s not just all about the Olympics at the moment. You can really feel that they’ve really built up to the Paralympics as well. And we have the, what do they call it, the Agitos, the Paralympics logo, the swishes, they’re proudly displayed right at the top of the Arc de Triomphe, so they’ve really tried to make sure that they’re being presented as one combined event, which is great to see. And so on that night we’ve got a couple of profiles of athletes who are heading to Paris from our colleagues at Grassroots to Glory. Here are the stories behind Beth Munro and Jonathan Broom-Edwards’ root to the Games.

MALE- Paris, Grass Roots to Glory. 

BETH- Hi, my name’s Beth Monro, and I’m proud and honoured to be representing Paralympics GB at the Paris Paralympic Games this summer. I grew up in Litherland in Liverpool, and I’m a true born and bred Scouser. The family maybe growing up could be a little bit sporty, so I think I got the energy of all the siblings; I fell into sports growing up as a child. I just like to be active and not sit still. 

Taekwondo kind of fell into my lap or I fell into it. So, having grown up with no left hand and being stubbornly independent, my twin sister could do certain things so I was obviously stubborn enough to say I could do them. And I never really went to a disabled sporting event. It’s not because I didn’t want to go, it just never really crossed my mind or my parents’ minds because I was able to do most things. And I randomly went one Sunday morning to Anglesey by myself and a guy, an amazing guy, Anthony Hughes walks up to me and went, ‘You look quite athletic’, got me to do a certain throw with a ball and he went, ‘I could make you a Paralympian’. And I was like, who are you, [laughs] do you know what  mean. One weekend Anthony just went to me, ‘Do you fancy taekwondo?’ and I said, ‘Listen, I’m such a placid peace person, never fought in school’ so the fact that I was going in to kick people was like, woah, what the hell’s this. And then I walked in and absolutely loved it. 

GRAHAM- Hello, I’m Graham, I’m Beth’s dad. She was sporty, yeah, but not a fighty sport, you know. Netball was her main one. Taekwondo had just come out of the blue; it’s something we’d never really seen happening. Anthony he just sort of like said, ‘If I can get you a Gold medal in Paris in four years would you like to try a sport with us?’ and she tried triathlon for the first couple of times she went down to Cardiff. And he said, ‘What about taekwondo?’, she tried that and she said, ‘I prefer that one’. And she moved down to Cardiff then for a while to do the training. 

MALE- Liverpool’s Beth Munro and Chester’s Amy Truesdale have both been named in the Team GB squad for this year’s Paralympics in Paris. 

BETH- I’m not a superstitious kind of person but every competition, so all three competitions I’ve had on home soil in Manchester, I’ve won. I’ve gotten Golds at all three, and the family have been at every single one. So, I’m hoping that obviously the energy that they give in certain matches or certain times that’ll excel me to get the Gold. And their support has been invaluable. I absolutely love them  all. 

GRAHAM- To be honest with you I’m quite laid back, as our Beth would say. As it gets a bit closer I’ll have no nails left, the hair will go a bit greyer, and then I’ll be very loud at Paris supporting her on. I think overall there are about 40 of us going over to Paris, so we’ll try and make a bit of a big loud noise for her. We’ll be so, so proud, and trying to get through the front door I don’t think my head will fit. It’d be great, really would be.

BETH- I’ve now got so much more to give. In tactical technical I’ve grown so much as an athlete. I’ve got accolades under my belt that I never thought I could achieve. So, yeah, it’s within my grasp. 

MUSIC-

JONATHAN- I felt ashamed that I was different. And I look back in hindsight and I think, what was I thinking. 

MALE- Colchester born high-jumper, Jonathan Broom-Edwards used to feel ashamed of his club foot. But now, as a two-time World Champion, the Reading based athlete says he’s going to Paris to defend his T44 class Paralympic title in the shape of his life, and thankful for his differences. 

JONATHAN- As I was going into secondary school I then started to hide my condition away, I started to become ashamed of the fact that I looked different. I was drawn to basketball because the basketball shorts would cover quite low, they’d go low down the legs, and the basketball boots would come quite high up the ankle. So, I started off life kind of then hiding it away. And then fast forward to 2013 I’m then thrown into Paralympic sport where I have to show it to the whole world, and it was a very weird transition. But what I know now is that actually my left leg and my left foot have given me the most incredible life, the most incredible adversity to go beyond, which has taught me so much about myself, it’s taught me so much about my mind. And I’d try to tell my younger self that you don’t need to worry. 

MALE- Two of our Paralympic hopefuls have today been confirmed in the Para athletic squad for the Paralympic Games: Hollie Arnold and Jonathan Broom-Edwards. Our sports reporter, Charlie Slater, can tell us a bit more:

CHARLIE- You realise quite how much that they are putting their bodies through. Jonathan Broom-Edwards is 36 years old. He is the reigning Paralympic high jump champion, he is also the reigning World Champion as well, having won the world title earlier this year over in Japan. And he’s one of the most driven people I think I’ve ever met. That’s why he is, at 36 years old, still the best high jumper in the world, and he’s hoping to prove that. 

JONATHAN- I feel in a great place, and proved to myself in Kobi last month that I’m actually in the shape of my life. I feel like I’ve been on the cusp of a personal best for a few years now, but things have happened and things have got in the way of doing that. Last year going into Paris 2023 I had torn two hamstrings eight weeks before the competition. So, to actually come out of that with no practice and going into the competition without any competition experience that was quite an achievement. And at Kobi I absolutely nailed a jump and it absolutely shocked me in some respects. Like, I finally got the feeling of absolutely going high; I knew I’d had a good jump. And I kind of celebrated a little bit too hard. Although it was a good psychological play because it would have out the competitors off, because I proper was banging my chest and everything and screaming out, it then also spiked my adrenaline. So, it gave me another thing to learn about that sort of competition that if you spike your adrenaline too much you’re going to be moving with much more pace, much more speed. And what I didn’t do in that competition was move my run up back, which again it was one of the first competition of my season this year, so it’s during those times you need to learn these sorts of things. But it puts me in good stead for the Paralympics. I’ve just got to rehearse this new run up and keep making the right decisions all the way up to Paris. 

MALE- Paris, Grass Roots to Glory, listen and subscribe on ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Sounds. 

PAUL- Wow, that was a really excellent piece. And we’re going to be doing a few more of those over the next few weeks, so listen out for those. And all of us here are going to be watching Beth and Jonathan’s progress in the Paralympics next month. 

That’s it for this week and for my stint on Access All. I hope you’ve enjoyed it as much as me. Emma will be back next week, although you might hear me pop up now and again on future episodes. Get in touch in all the usual ways. Email accessall@bbc.co.uk, or search @³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖAccessAll on the socials. And don’t forget to apply for those tickets to our Edinburgh Festival’s live recording on 9th August. Just search ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Shows and Tours website to find out more. See you soon. Bye. 

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JONELLE- And each week we’ll be breaking down the stories everyone’s obsessed with. What the hell is going on with this Stanley Cup craze? 

KIRSTY- How often do you think about the Roman Empire? 

MALE- There are weeks that it will come up in my brain more than once. 

JONELLE- Expect interviews with the hottest influencers and content creators. 

KIRSTY- Jordan Theresa, welcome along. Matt, joins us now. Welcome to the Reliable Sauce studio!

MATT- Thank you for having me. 

KIRSTY- Let’s talk more about this with Caity Baser who’s in the studio with us. 

CATIE- Hi.

KIRSTY- And hand-picked experts to help us make sense of it all when we need them. 

FEMALE- So, the law is there, but we really need these social media companies to act. 

FEMALE- Terms like this seem quite flippant, but of course they can be really serious. 

KIRSTY- And we will  have a little giggle too [laughter]. 

JONELLE- So, please come and join our spicy band. 

KIRSTY- Listen on ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Sounds now.