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17th August 2023

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 66

Presented by Nikki Fox

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NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’m on my tod today, and I had something really exciting to tell Emma. Like, I was going to get all techy. I know she’d love it. I spent the weekend, as I do, at the bungalow with my fella. And one of his best mates, Richard, came over, as he does occasionally and spent the weekend with us. Now, Richard is the smartest guy. He works with computers; he knows everything about everything. And he brought his virtual reality headset over because I’ve never tried a bit of VR, so he was like try it, it’s brilliant. I had the controllers in my hand and he set me up on a game. It was like I was Darth Vadar and I had two light sabres in front of me. I mean, it’s unbelievable when you’ve got this headset on, you’re like woah. One light sabre was blue, one was red, and then you pick your dance track [hums music] so you get the beat, right, you’re feeling it, you’re pumping it. Bearing in mind I’ve always wanted to be a dancer so the beat just gets me, even though I was on my electric wheelchair which is broken. And you basically see these blocks coming towards you and you have to wallop the sabre. Now, I was going hell for leather, I was loving it, I was doing it to the beat. I started off I got 3,000, then I got over 4,000 points, then I got over 5,000 points, and I didn’t want to stop, I was addicted. But my arms were getting weaker and weaker.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Now, in my head I thought I was waving my arms around like J-Lo at a Zumba class. My boyfriend happened to be taking a photo because he was so excited about me doing this, and once I’d finished, I had to retire from the game because I could no longer move my finger, let alone my arm, he showed me the video back. And I realised I was barely moving my wrist. I thought I’m walloping my arms here, there and everywhere, slicing up these bad boys coming towards me. But no, I was just sort of looking like I was moving my wrist. Honestly, it’s these little depressing moments you get with muscle conditions. Phew.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But anyway, that aside, I still can barely move my arms and it’s been nearly a week. So, there we go #disabledlife.

MUSIC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Theme music.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý This is Access All, the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ’s disability and mental health podcast. I’m Nikki Fox and I am in London. Now, this week we’ve got a right treat for you. We’re mixing it up a little bit, okay, we’ve got two interviews, not one but two, with some big names in the disability world. Later on in the podcast we have got Tommy Jessop from Line of Duty. Tommy and his brother Will have made a documentary which is going to be on your TV screens very soon. You’re going to hear all about that later.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But first we’ve got an extended interview for you that we recorded a few weeks ago. It was so good we have had to play it long. She won the prestigious Ivor Novello Rising Star award in May and has built a huge army of fans since supporting Hosier on tour around the UK this summer. Listeners, you know I love my music, I think I bang on about it enough. I sing terribly on the podcast but I listen intensely, and I love this woman. I’ve been waiting months to get her on. It’s singer/songwriter, the brilliant Victoria Canal.

MUSIC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý [Song clip Shape]

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That was a clip of one of your songs that you’ve released recently, Shape.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Shape, indeed.

NIKKI- ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I absolutely love it.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I first saw you on Jools Holland, that performance when you did Swan Song.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I was with my sister and my mum and dad and we were like, wow.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Cool!

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s such an amazing performance. And I was so captivated. And my sister and I went and saw you at that gig at St James’ Church which was just beautiful.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý It was one of my favourite gigs ever.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s where I tapped you out, wasn’t it? That little weird stalker in the scooter, ‘Come on the podcast!’ÌýÌý

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý [laughs]

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But I was wondering with the Jools Holland performance was that a bit of a game changer for you?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý In many ways yeah. I was in pretty amazing company with Self Esteem there and The Comet is Coming and The 1975.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I love The 1975.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Me too, they’re amazing. They were so sweet to me and have been so supportive since. Actually because of that day they put Swan Song on their pre-show playlist, so at every one of their shows it’s playing before their set, which is pretty amazing.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Amazing.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý But it was a really special experience. I’ve been watching Jools Holland for years and years since I was a kid, and it felt highly nerve-wracking to just sit in basically a circle in Ally Pally facing these other artists that are so highly accomplished. And I felt really proud and excited. I had a really wonderful time, it was an amazing experience.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You smashed it.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You have lots of fans, Victoria, but one of them is Chris Martin from Coldplay. Didn’t he describe Swan Song as one of the best songs ever written?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah [laughs].

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And you sang with him, didn’t you?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What was that like?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, it was amazing because he actually invited me out to a sort of recording retreat that they were doing. And Jacob Collier was there and a few other really gifted artists and musicians, and we all just hung out for a week making music. And one of those nights was the night that he sang Swan Song with me and someone caught it on camera. It was an absolute dream come true. I couldn’t have imagined it better myself.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I love that. So, that’s how that all came about then. And has he kind of influenced me, has he, Chris Martin?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. He was always my favourite songwriter as a kid. And when I first started performing my main sort of descriptor was I could play any Coldplay song, take any requests when I was playing restaurants and that kind of gig. I actually wrote in my journal for many, many years a manifestation list, and one of the things was me or make music with Chris Martin. And then one day it all fell into place, seriously like manifestation, unreal.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s mad how that happens, isn’t it?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s like woo-hoo. Because 2023 has been a massive year for you. I’ll mention it up top: the awards, the tour with Hosier. What’s that been like?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý The tour was amazing. I got to bring out some string players as well, which has always been a dream for me. And Hosier Andrew himself is so kind, so sweet, all the people on the crew and the band were so welcoming. I think the best part really was the fans. His crowd is so special, so enthusiastic and gentle and excitable, and they’ve all jumped on the Victoria Canal train now. I’m doing my own headline tour in the fall and they’re all going to be coming to that. It’s like pretty much every night that I performed they instantly bought tickets to my shows in the fall, which is something I’ve never really seen before. So, it’s pretty amazing.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I heard you on Radio1, it was Tuesday, wasn’t it, Maida Vale?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Uh-huh.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You were performing. That was incredible. But you were saying to the presenter that it was just an amazing moment to hear everybody sing [starts singing] – I’m not going to sing because it’s so embarrassing – but that back at you. What did that feel like?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, I mean I guess it feels so invigorating to have a crowd sing back a song about body image and body dysmorphia and the experience of being someone different or even just of being a woman and constantly being so hard on your body. Like feeling at Ally Pally for example singing to 10,000 people and they’re all singing Don’t be So Pretty in front of me, singing about comparison and being real about it. I guess it just feels really cool to see that it’s connecting with people.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That must be wonderful.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And two of your most recent songs, Shape and She Walks In, they are specifically about your feelings towards your body and your limb difference. This is just for listeners that don’t know, you were born without a right forearm, weren’t you?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Uh-huh.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But you said that the gig that I went to I remember you played those tracks for the first time, I didn’t even think about it and you mentioned it. And you played those songs and I was listening to the lyrics and for me I was just looking at it and thinking, again you’re a total stunner, you looked beautiful, you’ve got this amazing talent and voice and all of these things, and I was like man, it’s mad isn’t it how we never see what we see in ourselves what we see in others. But how has this experience been for you being so open about how you feel? Because it was the first time, wasn’t it, that you’ve written about that?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, it’s the first time I’ve written about my body. In a lot of ways it felt like reclaiming and reframing the narrative surrounding my disability. I’ve done a lot of interviews where the headline comes out and it doesn’t even mention my name, it just mentions my disability. It’s like Chris Martin singing with one-handed pianist or whatever.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý There was a headline like that?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Many.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No!

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah [laughs]. And you know how it works with press, like everybody just uses the same headline when one’s gone out, so it was just that everywhere. And I guess it just prompted me to think a lot about how I want to show up in the world in the way that, like I don’t want to neglect who I am, but I also want to have autonomy over how it’s being talked about and I want to do it on my own terms.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s it.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý I think writing music about it has helped me grow also in terms of self-esteem and confidence. Sometimes just talking about the experience out loud alleviates it in many ways, so that felt important to me. And ever since then I feel like actually people have focused a lot less on it.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s what I was going to say.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. Even just seeing comments online when I’m putting up music and stuff, five, six years ago it would have been something like, ‘Oh my god, poor her’ or, ‘She’s so inspiring’ which sometimes is also damaging, or ‘I feel so lucky I’m not her’ or whatever; things that are kind of supposed to be positive, like there’s positive intention, but it’s so damaging societally to frame disability that way. So, yeah I just feel like it’s been cool to see that by talking about it myself actually in the comments people are just like, ‘Oh my gosh I love this song, I relate to this, thank you for helping me feel seen’. It’s all changed so drastically.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I read in an article that you’d done you were saying that this was before the tracks, I think, you would look at your other contemporaries and when they’re in interviews they’re not really asked, they’re just asked about their recording process, their music, all of that, whereas you weren’t.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, it’s interesting hearing now that you’ve almost sort of like owned it in a way things have changed.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes, totally. And also I totally recognise that it is still important to point it out and talk about the things that are missing in terms of policy and stigma and all these things. It is really important to vocalise the realities surrounding disability. But I definitely feel much more empowered about it this time around.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s interesting this, isn’t it, Ems?

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It is because the music scene we’ve spoken to other disabled musicians quite recently who have spoken quite negatively about the music scene and how it deals with disability and difference. And it’s really interesting because you came into it focusing very much not on that and then owning it. Has it been good to you? Have they done any ableism as we say? How have they been with you?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s a really good question. I have a pretty incredible team of people around me who put a lot of effort into how we approach anything when it comes to interviews, and what opportunities we’re taking. Everything is incredibly intentional, and I have my manager, Andrew, is my ride or die and he is protecting me every step of the way. And I think we’ve both been growing and navigating how to take advantage of opportunities as they come but without feeling like I’m being tokenised or cheapened in any way; which has been inevitable in certain situations because, I don’t know, I think it’s almost like trendy these days to highlight people like me. Which is I guess good in many ways, but then it all just feels like…

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s a fine balance though, isn’t it?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý …it feels so performative in some ways, you know.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý So, I think it’s like a constant navigating and I just feel really lucky that I’m supported in a way that I don’t have to do it all alone. And we’re just trying out best. But I definitely still struggle with not really knowing if I am where I am because of my disability.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Or just because of my talent or…

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We now just want to shower you with soppy love.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes. No, I didn’t even know.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý You know what I mean though.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yes, we’ve had those struggles in our minds many times, Victoria.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Victoria, the amount of times in the morning I get up and say, I’m only on the TV because I’m a bird in a scooter. You do, you think like that.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Internalised ableism.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Imposter syndrome kind of thing.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, it’s our version of imposter syndrome. We’ve sucked in what society thinks.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Are you upset?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý I’m not upset.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You’re not upset?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý I’m just a crier.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh, I’m a crier too. Don’t, I’ll start crying, Victoria [laughs].

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý I mean, you know what, you were talking about mental health on this podcast, which is super important too I think. It’s tough out here. It’s tough to be labelled [voice breaks] and not have much control over how you’re perceived by the world. It’s definitely something that I struggle with sometimes, you know what I mean.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý I didn’t expect to get emotionally, sorry.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh Victoria.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But honestly, when I was your age, when we were in our early 20s, it’s taken us a lot of years to be hard-arsed about it.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, it comes with time.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, I think that’s the other thing, my personality is just I’m like incredibly open, to be honest; maybe to a fault sometimes.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s why your songs are so beautiful.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Don’t change.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý I won’t change.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And raw and gorgeous.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I say it. My sister tells me all the time, sometimes I’m just way too open and too soft and stuff. But I don’t want to change. You don’t want to.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, I think there’s such strength in vulnerability. There’s no use in pretending that everything is just peachy all the time because who’s going to feel understood by that? And I think as a songwriter and just as a person I think one of the things that makes me feel most fulfilled is feeling connected to others, and you can really only do that when you’re being real about your experience.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Exactly.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý No one has a perfect life. Also that’s my experience being maybe not judged, but maybe pitied or observed a certain way because of my difference, or maybe I’m only granted certain things because of my disability. But you could say the same for anyone who’s conventionally pretty or anyone who’s queer who’s only getting a queer spotlight. Just all these things that are happening right now because of a label. And it’s so interesting that we’re in a time where representation is expanding, which is so positive, but then we’re still being defined by these things that are so one-dimensional. It’s like we’re all incredibly complex beings with multiple facets and so much to our stories, and so to be defined by one thing is just really isolating sometimes.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It will change one day, it’s just we’re stuck in this time at the moment where it’s hard.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s confusing. It’s complex. It’s not nice sometimes.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, it’s not nice sometimes.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, not at all. I was wondering, I played music a bit when I was younger, I was a bit rubbish, but I took music up because I was a little bit different from my friends at school, and I used to love listening to Kate Bush and The Beatles and playing the piano a bit and writing rubbish songs. It kind of saved me to a degree. And I wondered was that a thing for you music?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh yeah, absolutely. Music has been my saving grace for sure. It still is. It’s such a relief. For me the music that’s hit me most has always been the emotional, quite ambient, folky immersive stuff, as well as film scores and the amount of times that I’ve just bawled to a film score, like Johnny Greenwood or…

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Radiohead?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, he’s written some of the most… like There Will be Blood, the film score for that just rips me up and it has for a long time. But Bonnie Varon and Ben Howard and James Blake and artists like this who really take their time and who just sink into the space of darker feelings I think has always just been like what’s made me feel better since I was a kid.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And what made you go for the old Joanna and the guitar? That’s a cockney word for piano.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh [laughs]. Well, actually my grandma played piano for church and she taught piano for many, many years.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh lovely.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý So, when I was little we would visit her in the summers. Since I was like three or four wanted to sit in the piano room on her lap and watch her play and see the effect that she had on her church. I was never really religious or anything, but there was definitely something pretty spiritual and pretty insane about the unity that happens within music, secular or non-secular. It was definitely that early exposure that got me into playing piano I think. I was singing in harmony from when I was really, really little. She told my parents, ‘I think she might have a knack for music so you should put her in lessons’. I took one piano lesson with her and we’re both so stubborn that it didn’t last [laughter] so they put me in normal conventional lessons.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s interesting because when I was a kid – I don’t know if I mentioned this but I’m blind – my mother couldn’t find a piano teacher who would take me for a long time because of the difference in my learning.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No!

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And that I couldn’t see music, and their teaching style didn’t match how I would need to learn. But I adapted, I was never particularly good, but I adapted. And I ended up singing because that went to my strengths in the end. But did you ever have any, did you come up against any hurdles in terms of learning to play and playing your instruments?Ìý

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s a great question. I love that question.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You’ve said that twice about Emma now [laughter]. You’ve not once…

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý I’ll get you [laughs]. It’s just really interesting for me because I’ve had several piano teachers over the course of my life, and the first one I ever had I love him, Daniel Karate, and he always let me basically memorise what he was playing instead of reading the music, because I never wanted to read the music. When we first started doing lessons it was just my left hand that we were using, and he would sit on my right side and play the right part. And then my mum was the one that was like, ‘I think you need to push Victoria to play with both somehow’ so that’s when I started actually using my right arm to play was because of my mum’s push. I thank my lucky stars for her stubbornness surrounding my practising, because she was pretty diligent about getting me to practise and wouldn’t let me skip a day. Sometimes I wish I still had her constantly supervising me.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý On your shoulder.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Don’t we all?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Criticising and eating salads. I’ve had several teachers say that my playing style has actually influenced their playing or that they’ve learnt from the limitation. My main heart and soul piano teacher is a friend of mine who I went to summer camp with, he’s my age and his name is Taylor, and he took the time to sort of adapt several pieces to what I would play. So, five fingers on the left and just one on the right. And we figured out together that I could play it so that I can play multiple notes with my right arm in a way that make voicings really interesting. So, my voicings are really unique to me and that’s one of the reasons I really love piano. And then when I picked up guitar about 15 I wasn’t so sure that I could actually get the hang of it because I can’t do picking finger style kind of thing. And then I met this guy John Butler. Do you know John Butler?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý He’s an Australian artist who had this really viral video on YouTube a million years ago, and it was him just like slapping the guitar and whatever. And he taught me about open tunings backstage at this one show. And he taught me what that was, and then once I’d discovered that I was like, oh my god, I think I can actually play guitar.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What is that?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý So, like normally a guitar is in standard tuning, which is like if you were to just strum it without holding down any of the strings on the frets then it wouldn’t sound that great. It’s the combination that logically makes it so that you can do different shapes. But with open tunings it sounds great when you just play it without any fingers pressing on the frets. And then you can actually play much easier combinations of shapes with your hand that will change the chord that you’re hearing. But there are certain notes that are still ringing out and it’s within the key. So, that just makes it a lot more fun, and a lot of singer/songwriters I think find it really inspiring. But that one day was highly influential for me because I ended up always only using open tunings, and it made me feel more confident about actually playing guitar successfully and performing with guitar, which was always something I wanted to do but didn’t know if I could do.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Do you adapt the guitar in any way or do you put anything on your arm or anything like that to help you?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý I used to. I used to tape a pick to my right arm, and it just got really sweaty and uncomfortable so I just started doing it with nothing on my arm. And it’s like incredibly soft, and that sometimes gives sound engineers a bit of a hard time when I’m playing live. But it’s also just really created again like another sort of unique sounding point for me because it’s so unique to me the way that my piano voicings are. No one else is going to sound like that when they play guitar or piano, so I take a lot of pride in that actually.

ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I like playing with syncopation a lot and rhythm. I hear the part in my head but I can’t quite play it the way that I want to, so I’ll just layer the parts in a way that actually sounds rhythmic and cool in your ears. I have so much fun doing that. That’s the stuff I love.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s brilliant, I love it. So, what is next for you?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, I have my own UK and Europe headline tour in the Fall.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So exciting.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Very exciting.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý How do you feel about that?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý I’m pretty stoked. I mean, some of the dates have already sold out.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Amazing.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s mind-boggling to me.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Of course they have.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý I’ve been playing music for a lot of years and it’s hard to sell tickets, so it feels pretty cool to start to do that in a way. And my EP Well Well comes out on August 15th.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I love the title of that, Well Well [laughs].

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý I always like album titles that pull from hidden lyrics in the track list that you might not expect or remember. And it was just one of the lyrics from a song called Yes Man, and to me it has to do with self-analysis and what do we have left here after all this stuff that you’ve been through, what are you building now and who’s left of you and who are you really. So, that’s kind of what the project is.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I could talk to you for ages. I don’t want to stop.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’ve really loved this.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Me too.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Really loved it. I’ve learnt so much and felt so much. Thank you.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s been really refreshing for me actually so I really appreciate it, thank you.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s funny, and I’ve probably said this to Emma before, but I’ve always been disabled, I didn’t know anyone disabled growing up apart from my sister, I wasn’t part of the thing we now call the disabled community, don’t we, Em.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Uh-huh.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And it’s only as I’ve got older that I talk about it so much, it’s my job obviously and everything. I was kind of reluctant to do it, very reluctant to do it, I kind of didn’t want to.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It was almost a bit showy-offy about the fact that I was the disabled girl that didn’t have any disabled friends. It was a gag, awful, really awful.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý I know exactly what you mean.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý But do you know what I mean? And I was sort of resistant.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, I’ve been there.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Have you?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Uh-huh.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Do you feel a bit more comfortable in that space?

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, absolutely. And I think there is something to be said for being faced with adversity in your everyday life. I think it teaches you a lot about the things that matter, and how to develop a certain sense of stoicism, whatever comes my way I can handle it kind of thing. That doesn’t have to be performative or tokenising or inspiring in any way. But I do have to say the people that I’ve come to know with disabilities generally do have that muscle developed in a way that a lot of able-bodied people just don’t. If you don’t have to face anything difficult – well I mean everybody goes through difficult stuff.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, but I know what you mean.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý You know what I mean, on a physical everyday tiny level maybe that muscle goes soft in terms of I can do this.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý If you don’t have those daily micro-aggressions you can’t flex the muscle.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah [laughs].

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And on that note you’ve been amazing and I’ve loved it. And if you ever want to come on again come on again.

VICTORIA-ÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Bye.

MUSIC-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Access All.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý To the left a bit.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Wait till you hear the double act.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Let’s see who gives the better performance.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý This is why I said it, to get everybody on top of their game.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Are you all warmed up Tommy?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Sit up straight. Don’t hunch back. Mum will have a go at you. Still in the shot?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s true.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Have we started?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We’d best introduce you now, hadn’t we, eh?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý He was in the TV series everyone was talking about, Line of Duty. Actor Tommy Jessop and his family were certain that being in 2021’s biggest TV show would lead to bigger and better roles. But when the show wrapped the phone stopped ringing. Not one to take things lying down Tommy decided if he wanted to be a lead actor in a film he was going to write the film and take it to Hollywood. Tommy’s latest documentary is all about this; filmed by his big brother, the Emmy nominated documentary maker Will Jessop. Talk about power brothers. Why don’t you guys explain a bit about what this documentary is all about?

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, what’s the story of Tommy Jessop Goes to Hollywood, Tommy?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Go on, give us it.

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, the main clue is in the title.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, the clue is in the title.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Very much so.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We couldn’t fit in Tommy Jessop and His Brother Will Goes to Hollywood; it would have been too long [laughter]. But yeah. And why are we going to Hollywood Tommy? What’s the aim?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý The main aim is to try to make a superhero film in Hollywood.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And what can you tell us about this particular superhero? You can’t give too much away because it’s top secret.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Can we give away the name of the superhero, do you think, Tommy?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, Roger the Superhero.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And why is he called Roger?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It came from my teddy bear.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s exactly it. So, we are pitching in Hollywood a superhero movie called Roger the Superhero; his name inspired by none other than Tommy’s teddy bear.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I love it.

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. We are in the middle of writing a script.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What really makes you want to be that superhero?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I must have watched countless superhero films and I do like to make my presence felt. And I would like to be able to save the day.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You want to be able to save the day.

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah. And I think it’s also about time there should be a superhero with Down’s Syndrome.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You’ve got some big stars in your documentary, haven’t you?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You met a lot of people along the way. Kit Harrington was one of them, known from The Game of Thrones.

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And then you went to Hollywood and you met some bigwigs.

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What’s it like to come up with your own idea for a movie and then go and meet all these famous powerful people and have them say yeah, I think that's quite a good idea, you know? How did that feel?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Heart-warming.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Heart-warming yeah, and I would say from my point of view pretty exciting.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We’ve seen it, haven’t we, Em? We were lucky enough to see it and I did love the section where you did a bit of roleplay with Kit Harrington. He was playing the baddie:

[Clip]

KIT-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Interior, underground science lab day. Roger the Superhero is facing off against his nemesis, the billionaire bad guy, Noel Scum. It’s quite simple, Roger: your DNA is a mistake, a glitch in the code. You have an extra chromosome that corrupts the rest of it.

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You’re wrong. It’s a gift.

[End of clip]

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What was it like acting alongside Kit Harrington like that?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Wicked.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý There was something a little bit surreal about it, because obviously that was a scene that Tommy and I had written for one of the biggest stars in the world on the off-chance he was up for reading it. And next thing I know I was there behind the camera with Tommy and Kit Harrington facing off in a kind of climactic showdown [laughs]. And what was amazing about it was obviously Kit is a wonderful actor, but Tommy was very much holding his own. There was a kind of power balance between the two of them, and I was like wow, that’s incredible. And as a kind of proof of concept for what we could go on to do with the superhero movie it felt very, very exciting.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What I loved about the documentary is it’s really fun, but you also raised a lot of really big issues for people with Down’s Syndrome. There was screaming in there, there was the Down’s Syndrome Act. Was that partly your intention when you were making it?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Definitely.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Because you are a passionate activist, aren’t you, Tommy?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, for me Tommy, while you think of an answer, maybe have a quick sip of expresso as well and take your hand out of your pocket and just think of your next answer.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý [Laughs] love this.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Because I’m going to waffle on here a bit Tommy, so you’ve got a chance to prepare.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And for our listeners, Tommy drinks more expresso than I do, and I drink about six a day. No, I don’t.

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý These are quite nice.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That explains a lot [laughter].

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Down it, Tommy.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No, don’t down it. just a sip! Just a sip! We’re micro dosing. There we go, that’s the expresso. Now sit up nice and straight.

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’ve got my mother’s words ringing in my ears. Just to pick up on what you asked, Nikki, so some of my favourite bits in the film Tommy are when you’re filming yourself, kind of telling us about the story, about your ideas for your superpowers, which are pretty cool. What’s your favourite superpower?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Reading people’s minds, telekinesis, changing people’s minds.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Exactly. So, for us to go from the fun to the more serious points was always our intention. And for me that is kind of encapsulating Tommy’s personality, isn’t it Tommy?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Because you are warm and funny and wise and smart. But there are also things that you care about very deeply, and there’s work that we need to do to make the world a better place for people with Down’s Syndrome. But obviously one of the things that you’ve been doing, Tommy, is your campaigning.

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, celebrating the lives of people living with Down’s Syndrome, and to improve their lives as well.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You two have such a great relationship, and we can see that in this interview. You went to Hollywood and your mum, Jane, is always very involved, she’s always there right by your sides, but you went by yourselves. And Jane gave you a big long list, Will, of things that would be useful to keep Tommy happy and safe and sorted. How did all that go? Did you do anything on the list?

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s fair to say it was a really long list, Emma. It was four pages long [laughter]. And I sort of feel that if we’d done everything on that list we wouldn’t really have had much time to do anything else [laughter]. So, she has some kind of tried and tested techniques I suppose to bring the best out of Tommy. And I’m sure she’s got very similar instructions when it comes to me [laughs] that I’ve never seen. Actually that was the very first time that Tommy and I have been abroad together as brothers without our parents.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Which was pretty cool. And so I think mum’s way of…because I’m sure she must have been a bit worried about what we were going into, and obviously excited for us, but we’re going the other side of the world to try and pitch a superhero movie in Hollywood, the land of the sharks. And yeah, some of them we did follow and were super helpful, but also I think it’s fair to say we also found our own way.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Did you go out till 3am drinking shots?

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, that must remain…

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What went on in Hollywood stays in Hollywood, yeah [laughter].

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, we may not have gone that far.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý There is an amazing scene where Will is flapping outrageously trying to get everybody ready and get to the pitch, and Tommy is chill, cool as a cucumber.

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Cool as a cucumber.

[Clip]

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You’ve got to be in a big meeting outfit, so not wearing shorts. It’s probably going to be these. We’ve got about 20 minutes. We’ve got to call mum, do some prep, eat breakfast, pack, leave the hotel and get in the car, so it is quite a lot. Where’s your toothbrush, is it packed?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Uh, yes.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Now we’ve got to be quick, quick, quick.

[End of clip]

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That was such a big deal, like, but you didn’t seem Tommy. But were you nervous?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I was [laughter]. Yeah, I certainly felt like a massive fish out of water; but Tommy just owned…yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý There’s a scene towards the end where you were in front of he was a big producer talent manager, wasn’t he, guy.

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý He was really moved by you I felt and why you wanted to make this film. And you properly sold it. And you were dead proud of him, weren’t you?

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh so proud, yeah.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Tommy, what’s next for you?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý No comment.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What?!

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý To reprise my role as Terry Doyle in Line of Duty.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý That’s the dream. It’s not necessarily actually what’s next though. I think it’s fair to say you would love to do that, wouldn’t you, Tommy?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý So, in terms of what’s actually next, Tommy, I’m going to give you a clue [whispering] say Roger the Superhero. Do you want to ask the question again, Nikki?

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What’s next Tommy?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, Roger the Superhero.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Good answer [laughter].

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Will, you’re also an impressive filmmaker. What have you got on next as well?

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, same answer: Roger the Superhero.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý It’s all about Roger.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý The intention is we’re doing it for real. We’re working on the screenplay and then looking at casting other roles. Obviously we’ve got our dream cast.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh, who’s in the dream cast?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Well, he might be known as the people’s champion.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And for those that don’t watch wrestling?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý The Rock.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Oh, Dwayne The Rock Johnson.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Yeah, Dwayne The Rock Johnson is in there somewhere. And in terms of the potential love interest?

TOMMY-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Margot Robbie.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Margot Robbie. And she’s been in there since before we saw Barbie.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Right okay.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We’ve really thought about this.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Brilliant.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And obviously also we’d love to include other actors with Down’s Syndrome and other disabilities.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Totally.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý We could have so much fun casting this.

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you so much for coming in. And one thing we have forgotten to mention is that you can get Tommy’s book. He’s also an author. The book is called A Life Worth Living: Acting, Activism and Everything Else. And you can get it from any good bookshop. And the brothers’ documentary, Tommy Jessop Goes to Hollywood is going to be on ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ One this month, and it will also be on the iPlayer as well. oh guys, you are amazing.

WILL-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Thank you very much.

EMMA-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Bye. Lovely to meet you. Bye!

NIKKI-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Now, Tommy and Will Jessop’s documentary is on ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ One next week. It is brilliant. I’ve seen it twice. Keep an eye on your TV guides and just mark it, put it in your diary. I really hope you enjoyed the programme today. Do get in contact with us, we love, love, love hearing from you. You can contact us on X. Oh, X eh? X is the microblogging site formerly known as Twitter. Or you can email us accessall@bbc.co.uk. Bye.

[Trailer for Newscast]

PRESENTER-Ìý You know when you’re worried about something, but then you talk to your friend who knows more about the subject than you do, and straightaway you start to feel better? That’s what we try and do every day on Newscast.

CLIP-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Now, they’re saying that that would be simple to do, it would give everyone certainty.

PRESENTER-Ìý We talk to people who are in the news:

CLIP-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý You were chasing me round with a plate of cheese.

PRESENTER-Ìý We talk to people who know what’s going on in the news:

CLIP-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý At least I didn’t get up and slap anybody.

PRESENTER-Ìý We talk to people who understand what the news means:

CLIP-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I think that he’s decided he’s going to listen, and then he might just intervene.

PRESENTER-Ìý And we talk to the best ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ journalists, asking the most important questions:

CHRIS-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý What’s wrong with chinos? You don’t want them, people to start wearing chinos?

CLIP-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Don’t start me, Chris.

PRESENTER-Ìý That’s Newscast from ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ News, the podcast that knows a lot of people who know a lot about the news.

CLIP-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý And I was like, go on Kate, put some more welly into it!

CLIP-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý Listen to Newscast every day on ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Sounds.

CLIP-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’m glad I asked that.

CLIP-ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý I’m very glad that you asked that!

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