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NIKKI- Oh Sam, it’s so nice to have you here today.

SAM- It is my absolute pleasure my darling. 

NIKKI- You are stepping in for Emma Tracey today, for one week only. 

SAM- Can I just say [singing] for one night only. I feel like I’m doing my military duty.

NIKKI- Now, last week you obviously weren’t here, it was Emma, okay. And we chatted about ablesplaining, right, a term I’d never heard before. 

SAM- It sounds very similar to mansplaining. Am I on the same…?

NIKKI- You’re on the right track. 

SAM- There we go. 

NIKKI- Renke, you’re on the right track. 

SAM- I’m not just a pretty face. 

NIKKI- Have you ever been ablesplained?

SAM- Most likely yes I have. I think for me having brittle bones I think a lot of people like to tell me what I should be eating in terms of dietary requirements to make my bones stronger. I’ve spoken about this in the past, people go, ‘Why don’t you just have a Babybel, eat a Babybel and you’ll be up off your feet’.

NIKKI- Eat a Babybel!

SAM- Yeah, I do get quite a lot of that. But recently I’ve been talking about my mental health quite a lot, and although I love people sharing their own journeys and I think it’s really empowering that we’re so open about anxiety, depression and so forth, but I do get quite a lot of people pushing a lot of holistic do this, and take this supplement, have you tried meditating. And it’s all coming from a lovely place, I guess. But part of me is like oh just shut up, let me wallow in my self-pity, let me just eat copious amounts of chocolate and not wash my hair for a week, and then maybe, just maybe, I’ll do a bit of yoga.

NIKKI- [Laughs]

MUSIC- Theme music.

NIKKI- This is Access All, the disability and mental health podcast you never knew you needed. I’m Nikki Fox and I’m in London. 

SAM- And I’m Samantha Renke, broadcaster and just fabulous human being. I am also in London, here with Nikki for the first chunk of today’s programme to look over some of the recent disability media news.

NIKKI- I’m so looking forward to it. 

SAM- Me too.

NIKKI- I am. Now, we have got a very important story actually about a family who have created a supported home for young people with complex needs. That’s coming up shortly. Plus an interview with TikTok legend, Fats Timbo. We’re on ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Sounds and any other podcast provider that you choose to use. We’re Access All. Like us, please subscribe to us, that would be nice, because then we’re going to land on your device every week. 

Now, we’re going to talk today about all the TV and film news that has something to do with disability.

SAM- Something thereabouts.

NIKKI- First show – now I like the look of this one because I’ve been watching the trailer – Down for Love it’s called. It follows a group of people with Downs Syndrome as they search for love.

[Clip]

NARRATOR- We all want love, companionship and affection, to love and be loved.

FEMALE- Will you be my boyfriend?

NARRATOR- But finding that special person isn’t always easy.

MALE- Tip of the day, set your duo as a princess.

NARRATOR- This series follows New Zealanders living with Downs Syndrome as they go on a series of dates.

MALE- I have some butterflies in my stomach right now.

[End of clip]

NIKKI- So, what do you think about Down for Love, these kinds of dating shows?

SAM- I mean, the rather patronising voiceover has already niggled me a little bit. It is very similar, verging on The Undateables.

NIKKI- Yeah, what did you think about that?

SAM- True story:

NIKKI- Go on. 

SAM- I didn’t like The Undateables. When it first came into creation that was when I first moved to London and I was doing things for Bafta and being really swanky and getting right in there in terms of representation. And I flagged this, I was one of the first people to flag it. But of course the ables took over and they were like, no, no, silly disabled person you don’t know what you’re talking about.

NIKKI- You have no idea [laughs]. 

SAM- It’s going to be fabulous. So, I kind of wound my neck in a little bit. However, a few years later on Twitter, and normally I’m not passive aggressive on Twitter, but I did comment going, ‘And that patronising voiceover on Undateables’ and of course it was Sally Phillips, who is a dear friend of mine. And Sally reached out to me, she was mortified because she was like, ‘Oh my goodness, do I sound patronising?’

NIKKI- Oh no!

SAM- And we cleared the air and we had a really meaningful conversation about The Undateables. And obviously she has a son with Downs Syndrome, and she said as a parent what that show does or did for many parents of children, particularly with intellectual or learning disabilities, is it kind of gave parents a bit of hope or clarity to know that their children will find love. And I totally appreciated that. However – you know what I’m going to say – I just hate how we still think that society is in a position to watch something like this not with an abled gaze and go this is beautiful, we are all humans, and so on and so forth. Unfortunately a lot of these shows still feel incredibly voyeuristic for me. And I don’t know, I’m worried about the narrative that will play out from something like this. And maybe they have, maybe we have progressed, maybe we have moved on, maybe we have been more inclusive when we are creating these shows. I don’t know, it still feels a little bit uneasy with me. 

NIKKI- I’m going to play devil’s advocate, right? 

SAM- Ooh.

NIKKI- Because once upon a time when I had my behind the scenes career working in telly I worked on a programme called How to Look Good Naked. And we always wanted to find disabled people to take part in the main show, but we never got anyone, despite trying. So, that’s why we had to come up with a How to Look Good Naked…with a difference because it was the only way we could advertise specifically for disabled people. A lot didn’t feel comfortable applying to be on the show as part of the main series. But when we put it out there that it was a series in itself they did. So, I wonder that with dating shows whether the guys that would like to go on a dating show that might have a learning disability or Downs Syndrome or whatever maybe they don’t want to go on a Love Island or a…

SAM- It’s a double-edged sword, isn’t it?

NIKKI- Yeah.

SAM- Because from an onlooker I think I actually was quite negative about the show because I was like, why does it have to be separate. And it’s so interesting hearing what you’ve just said. 

NIKKI- Going back to The Undateables we’ve got Fats Timbo on the show later on. It was an interview that Emma and I did before she went off on her holiday. And she went on The Undateables and actually had quite a positive experience. 

SAM- Absolutely. But doesn’t that just represent disability and the fact that we’re not a monolith and we are multi-faceted, and our experiences will differ? And I think that is the beauty of our community. 

NIKKI- Yeah. And of course, Sam, there’s been quite a reaction to the news – I don’t know if you’ve seen this – that Hugh Grant will be playing the role of the Oompa-Loompa in the new Charlie and the Chocolate Factory film, officially called Wonka.

[Clip]

MALE- You’re the funny little man who’s been following me. 

HUGH- I will have you know that I am a perfectly respectable size for an Oompa-Loompa.

MALE- A what now?

HUGH- Allow me to refresh your memory. 

MALE- Oh, I don’t think I want to hear that. 

HUGH- Too late.

[End of clip]

NIKKI- Now, several actors with dwarfism have come out and criticised the filmmakers for giving the role to Hugh Grant, and say the role should have been given to an actor with dwarfism. We hear this time and time again, don’t we? Because the are so few parts for actors who are below average height. What do you think about this? 

SAM- I actually saw the trailer when I was watching Barbie, and immediately I thought oh, that’s an unusual choice. However, it did dawn on me, and it’s difficult to describe if you’ve not seen it, the character was Tinkerbell size, so even smaller than what we would recognise in the original kind of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory Oompa-Loompa who would be short statured people like myself. So, they kind of like shrunk him even more to like a tiny, tiny, tiny size. And I feel like that’s probably how they’re going to potentially get around this conundrum going, well no, no because he’s like Tinkerbell size and no one’s Tinkerbell size in real life.

NIKKI- Well, Peter Dinklage, he’s one of the most famous actors with dwarfism, obviously been in Game of Thrones and he’s done many other things, he was an elf, wasn’t he, he’s recently spoken out about yet another upcoming remake. This time it’s a live action version of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and that’s coming from Disney. Now, it’s being filmed at the moment and the Game of Thrones actor has called it out, basically calling it an f’ing backwards story. 

SAM- But all Disney films are all a little bit damsel in distress, come and rescue me, evil stepmother. Why can’t it be an evil stepfather, you know? So, I think there are many layers that we could unpick. 

NIKKI- Well, Disney announced that magical creatures apparently are going to replace the seven dwarfs to avoid reinforcing stereotypes. New photos from behind the scenes have emerged which appear to show only one of the seven companions actually having dwarfism. The rest are of average height, Sam Renke. I guess the main point with all of this from loads of people that I speak to, either wannabe actors or experts in the field, just there aren’t enough roles for people who are disabled. 

SAM- Yeah, and that’s the point, isn’t it?

NIKKI- And that’s the point. 

SAM- It’s whether you want to go for a role that is steeped in harmful stereotypes is irrelevant really. We should be creating more roles. 

NIKKI- Yeah. So, what do you make of the decision to remove dwarfs from Snow White?

SAM- It’s a tricky one, isn’t it, because I don’t feel like I am a person who has had roles, opportunities because of my stature, because I’m still a wheelchair user. So, that’s like a whole different ballgame. And when I heard the argument for let’s not change on stage the parts for people with dwarfism I was a bit like, why don’t you want to fight for different roles and more roles and be Snow White instead of…? And then when I heard the argument that this is regular employment, this is gainful employment, we need to survive on that, the disability price tag is astronomical. 

NIKKI- Phenomenal. 

SAM- Given the climate that we’re in. So, I see it from both sides. But I also understand why they’ve done it. And maybe we need to change the narrative. Maybe we need to shape it, change it up a bit. 

NIKKI- You’re amazing, Sam. Thank you so much for joining me. It’s just been an absolute pleasure today. 

SAM- Thank you for having me, my lovely. 

NIKKI- And for people who want to hear more, Sam, and I don’t blame you for it, she’s got her own podcast, so check her out.

SAM- I do, Motability podcast talking about cars. Whoop whoop!

NIKKI- Now, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this lovely listeners, so do get in touch with us. You can do that in all the usual ways: you could email us accessall@bbc – I’m tripping over my words.

SAM- I’m staring at you. 

NIKKI- No, it’s my teeth. I like it. You can do that in all the usual ways: you can email us accessall@bbc.co.uk, or you can tweet us @³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖAccessAll or send us a send us a WhatsApp message or a voice note – I love a voice note, Sam and I just voice note all the time.

SAM- A lot.

NIKKI- The number is 0330 123 9480.

A charity started by parents to provide supported living for young adults with complex support care needs has received over 30 requests wanting to set up similar homes. The Simon Trust was created by Sally and Peter Lawrence to build a new home for their son, Simon, who needs round the clock care, when their local council couldn’t house him in their home county. To cut a long story short, Linden Farm is now established and ten disabled people with complex needs live there. it’s a supported living environment within a community and with organised activities. The couple are now in touch with five families from around the UK who are submitting their own proposals to do the exact same thing. Now, on the line we’ve got Sally, mother to Simon. Thank you so much for joining us, Sally.

SALLY- You’re very welcome. 

NIKKI- Before we talk about the home that you’ve set up let’s start at the beginning and talk a bit about your son, Simon. Where had he been living before he turned 18?

SALLY- Okay, so Simon is now 30. But putting the clock back, when he was eight he went to a residential school called Priors Court near Newbury in Berkshire. So, that was hard enough to let him go at the age of eight away to school. My heart has been broken many times. 

NIKKI- Oh no. 

SALLY- But we couldn’t manage him at home. He had complex needs and we just couldn’t manage. It drives many families apart, and we didn’t want that to happen to us. We wanted to stay strong as a family but we couldn’t cope with our son and we had to admit that. And then it became a 52-week placement as he grew older when he was about 18. But we were very lucky that when he turned 19 Priors Court was just setting up a young adult provision, so he was able to stay in the end till he was 26, which gave us a few more years to work out what was going to happen. 

NIKKI- A few more vital years. You need that time, don’t you? 

SALLY- We used to say that school was like the honeymoon period for people with severely disabled children, because after that there is nothing. And it was just what do we do. We did not want him to go to Yorkshire or Cornwall, the far ends of the country. We live in Surrey. That was our starting point, we said we live in Surrey, we want Simon back in Surrey near us, we want to be part of his life, he part of ours. In the end we got there, but it was a long battle, a long challenge. 

NIKKI- So, tell us what you actually did?

SALLY- So, in 2015 we set up our charity. We had been talking to Surrey county Council since Simon was about 15 years old because we thought his placement would end at 19. And they were saying well we can’t provide, we can’t provide. We were saying you have to provide. And they were sending us to look at places that were totally inappropriate, homes in the middle of a town that would be noisy, that he’d have a room with lots of other people who he’d probably be incompatible with, totally inappropriate placements. So, we said no, no you’ve got to set something up, something unique, something that Simon and several others who were all at Priors Court school needed. They were all from Surrey and they needed something back in Surrey near their families. And so in the end we got Surrey County Council on our side and we proved to them that they would save money by setting something up back in county for the most needy. So, the big key factor for the council is that in supported living home rather than a residential care home, in a supported living home the young person gets housing benefit, which pays for the rent. 

You asked me a bit about Simon, and just going back to that, he is severely autistic, he’s non-verbal, he has complex needs, he also has epilepsy. So, he can’t tell us when things are going right or wrong. But he gets brought home every Sunday at 12 o’clock and his face tells me everything; he usually has a grin from ear to ear when he’s pleased to see us, which is lovely. But he also has that grin when he goes back to Linden Farm in the afternoon, we take him back, and he’s happy to go back. And that for us is very reassuring. It is the same level of care that he would get in a residential care home. In fact it’s better because he's a tenant so he has the right to be in his own home and he can’t be evicted, for whatever reason, if something did go wrong. 

NIKKI- Yeah. But the quality of care that Simon is getting in Linden Farm tell us about that? 

SALLY- So, Surrey County Council chose the care provider, and they train all their staff in autism, which is a key thing we wanted. Simon is 24/7 one-to-one care. He needs one-to-one because of his epilepsy. And he has two-to-one care when he goes out into the community. 

NIKKI- Sarah, we spoke to you, didn’t we, last year. But to give our listeners a recap last year we spoke to Sarah, Sarah London, a mum of three whose Son Harrison had been threatened with eviction from his residential school. Now, Harrison turns 18 next month, and following the Lawrences’ model Sarah has just submitted a proposal to her local council to build a home that will give Harrison the quality of life she wants for him as he enters adulthood. Sarah, last time we spoke it was an awful time because your son Harrison was being evicted from his residential school, along with others, and you didn’t have that long to find him another placement. What happened? 

SARAH- They conceded in the end and let Harrison stay because we couldn’t find anywhere else for him to go. Unfortunately though Ofsted then closed them in February, with 24 hours’ notice, and Harrison had to leave the home he’d known of ten years. And he was placed in some temporary adult accommodation, which was not adequate, wasn’t trained with autism specific staff, they didn’t have any knowledge of his needs. And he spent the best part of five months trapped in a bedroom. 

NIKKI- That must have been horrendous for you. 

SARAH- It was. It was horrific. And he’s really struggled with this transition, moving from everything he’s known. He’s lost all of his education. He’s lost everyone who he had any kind of relationship with. And was just placed in inadequate care. 

NIKKI- Where is he now?

SARAH- He has now moved to a permanent placement and is doing well. he’s been there a month. So, it’s looking good. But it was our only option. 

NIKKI- Has all of this had a negative impact on him? 

SARAH- His mental health really suffered during that period where he wasn’t getting out and he wasn’t doing anything, he had no education anymore. So, it’s definitely affected him, and I don’t think we will truly know what it’s done to him because he can’t tell us. 

NIKKI- What are you doing? You’ve submitted a proposal to your local authority; are you following the same kind of model?

SARAH- Yes, I am. I’ve submitted a proposal that suggests we use Linden Farm as a blueprint. It’s tried and tested, it’s working, it’s an incredible place; why would we not want to roll that out into other counties so that other individuals can benefit?

NIKKI- And from your perspective what’s so great about Linden Farm?

SARAH- I think it is the fact that it isn’t just a housing solution. It’s a bespoke supported living service where you have an activity centre, and you’re giving these individuals a purpose and an opportunity to explore things they would enjoy. And also giving them some of that independence that they crave. 

NIKKI- Sally you’ve persuaded, stop me if I’m wrong, because it all comes down to finances, you’ve persuaded your local authority to buy that plot of land. You did fund raise as well about 250,000, didn’t you? 

SALLY- Yes, a bit more than that. We originally were going to buy the plot of land, but in the end Surrey said, ‘We’ll buy it and we’ll set it up, and you work with us’. And at that point we set up the charity, the Simon Trust. 

NIKKI- Who paid for the costs of the actual building? 

SALLY- Surrey County Council. We said we would work with them to provide the facilities that these people so desperately needed, the extra essentials, if you like. So, this is a six-acre site on the edge of a small village. Simon loves cycling, but he’s not safe on a road because he would suddenly jump off his bike and run across the road at any given point or he could have a seizure. So, in fact our charity the latest thing we’ve done is provide a 400-metre cycle track. 

NIKKI- Amazing. 

SALLY- We’ve provided a sensory room, a cookery room, arts and crafts things, we’ve provided all these things. 

NIKKI- It’s everything that would enable someone to live and not just exist in the setting, to actually enjoy their life in many, many ways, the extra bits and bobs that you just don’t get. I mean, for you Sarah, this must sound like the absolute dream. Are you confident you’re going to be able to follow the Linden Farm model?

SARAH- I appreciate this is going to be quite a battle, and it sounds like the fundraising and everything that Sally and Peter had to do to get them where they are is going to be a challenge. And I really hoped that the local authority would see this as a perfect opportunity for them as well to provide something that is new and that doesn’t exist in the county. I’m not afraid to give it a go, and I’ve certainly fought for everything else for Harrison so why should this be any different? 

SALLY- I was going to say, we were told it would be the best thing you’ve ever done, and I think that’s so true. It’s a home for your son’s life, you hope forever. 

NIKKI- Thank you so much, Sally. Sarah, we asked Harrison’s local council, which is Hampshire County Council, about your son’s situation and what preparations they’re making for young adults with complex needs. They said, ‘Our care teams work extremely hard to support young adults with complex disabilities to access appropriate care and support that not only meets their individual needs but encourages greater independence. The local authority has invested significantly in recent years in supported accommodation for younger adults with learning and physical disabilities. This modern purpose build housing has been designed to support people to live away from home and to receive support with a wide range of living and life skills tailored to individual needs’. Would you like to respond to that Sarah at all? 

SARAH- It’s not really relevant to those with really complex needs. Those purpose built modern buildings that they’re talking about I think they’re flats, which wouldn’t be suited to Harrison because, like Sally says, they need space. And what they seem to forget is giving this purpose in life and giving them something to do and fill their time and, like you say, not just exist within four walls. And I think that’s possibly where things are going wrong. 

NIKKI- Will you keep us updated, Sarah, with everything and how it goes?

SARAH- I will do, yes.

NIKKI- And Sally, let’s stay in touch as well because I think it’s brilliant, and I’d love to do more with you at some point in the future. It’s been a real treat having you both on. 

MUSIC- Access All with Nikki Fox.

NIKKI- Shortly, before Emma disappeared off on her holiday, we sat down with TikToker extraordinaire and author, Fats Timbo. Here’s the interview:  

What does our next guest do, eh? The better question to ask is, what doesn’t she do? Fats Timbo is a TikTok superstar. I am aware that I read that like I am 100 years old and I’ve only just discovered the platform. But Fats is a superstar. She has almost 3 million followers. 3 million followers! She posts dance and comedy and make-up videos that blend all aspects of her identity as a small person of Sierra Leone descent. She also has been spotlighted by numerous publications like the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ and British Vogue. On top of all of that she’s an author. Her memoire was released earlier this year. She’s also – I’m going on Fats here – she’s also going to be a celebrity captain as part of the upcoming Superhero series, which is the UK’s only sports series dedicated to the 14.6 million odd disabled people. We’re going to come on to that in a moment. But Fats, welcome to the show.

FATS- Thank you so much for having me. Honestly, it’s a pleasure to be on this show. I love you guys. 

NIKKI- Ah.

EMMA- Ah. 

FATS- I love what you guys stand for, and it’s an absolute pleasure to be able to speak to you guys. 

NIKKI- Well, Emma, I was not expecting that. I feel like I might start crying. 

EMMA- Absolutely. Well, shall we praise Fats a bit more even?

NIKKI- Yeah. I’ve spent a long time stalking Fats Timbo, as I do with a lot of guests, but I was getting very addicted to all of your videos. You are so popular on TikTok. For people who haven’t seen Fats on TikTok I urge you to follow her again. She’ll be at 5 million goodness knows when. But what kinds of things do you do, for people that don’t know, on the site to make you so popular? 

FATS- I think it definitely has to do with my appearance, the fact that they’ve probably never seen a dark-skinned black little woman in their life who is dancing her butt off, and who happens to be funny as well. I think it’s one of those things if I didn’t look the way I do maybe I wouldn’t be as popular as I am today. Also it’s my sense of humour, like taking the mick out of myself, but at the same time make it relatable so you can feel like, oh I feel like that too, but it’s funny as well, okay. I also talk about disability. If I’ve had a funny scenario, well at the time it probably wasn’t funny, it was probably annoying. For example when a random woman came up to me and she was like, ‘Are you born like that?’ And I made a skit out of it taking the mick, and people were like oh my god. They could see the situation for what it is. 

EMMA- The response that you gave on TikTok turned into your most popular skit, didn’t it? Tell everybody what you said about what happened. 

FATS- She came up to me that day, randomly, I’d just had my eyelashes done, I’m on my way home. 

NIKKI- Oh damn. 

FATS- I wasn’t thinking about much. And she randomly comes up to me and she says, ‘Are you born like that?’ and I was like, ‘Yeah’ but in my head I was thinking, no I shrunk in a washing machine. But I didn’t want to say that. I didn’t want to be rude. 

NIKKI- Have a nice day. 

EMMA- I just love that line about shrinking in the washing machine. It’s just what are people thinking when they ask such a question? 

NIKKI- I know. For me I don’t understand how, especially in groups as well, some people feel really confident in numbers and they feel like they can laugh in your face when you’re alone. And I think that’s so horrible. I could never do that to someone and ruin their self-esteem by doing something like that. When that used to happen to me a lot as a child I would just come home crying. But now I feel like I’ve built up that self-esteem to the point where I’m like you don’t know the influence I have, and you could turn into a funny skit actually. I just have a different mindset towards it now. 

NIKKI- But what was it changed, Fats? I’ll let you explain this, but I know from reading all about you that you did have a difficult time growing up, to becoming this sass pants that you are now, what was that process like? Was it an overnight thing? 

FATS- Definitely not overnight. I think I just got tired of feeling worthless, feeling like the world hates, me, feeling like…I just got absolutely tired of feeling so negative. And I think what changed it for me was reading self-help books and seeing if it would actually help. When I read the book The Secret by Rhonda Byrne it really changed my mindset to make me think if I have something in my mind I can actually turn it into something that’s a reality, but in a positive way. And I always knew in my heart of hearts I didn’t go through this life, all this hard upbringing and life for no reason. I always thought that for some reason, even as a young child, I just thought there’s a bigger purpose for me. One day I saw an ad asking for little people to join a campaign. I didn’t hesitate. I just thought okay, let me give it a go, what’s the worst that can happen. I get there now, it was an underwear shoot. I thought oh no, I just went from zero to 100, how did we do that. I’d never done modelling before, but I’m just going to basically strip. 

NIKKI- Get it off, yeah. 

FATS- Yeah, that’s what I did: I got it off. Ever since then, because after I saw the pictures I was like oh, I actually look all right, you’re actually cute, okay. I put it on Instagram and about 500 followers, friends and family, and it just blew up. 

NIKKI- You were saying there that the self-help book really did change things for you, or the books that you read, is that why you decided to write a book of your own like that to help other people that felt like you did when you were younger? 

FATS- Yes, that’s exactly it. The Main Character, Energy: 10 Commandments to living life fearlessly. 

NIKKI- Yes, Fats Timbo. And give me a couple of the commandments. Come on, Emma. 

FATS- A couple of commandments are: let love be your superpower. My family have been the best thing in my life. Honestly, I don’t know where I would be without them because my dad he used to work in mental health, and having someone like that who understands mental health, who I could cry to, who was basically my at home counsellor. And I’m forever grateful for that because he was always like a shoulder to cry on, and always encouraging me to be the best I could be. And my mum, let me not discredit my mum. My mum’s been the best mother ever. So, I encourage people to let the people around them be their support system. 

NIKKI- You were talking about love there, Fats. You actually, was it your first TV job I don’t know, but you were on The Undateables, weren’t you? 

FATS- Yes, I was.

NIKKI- That Channel 4 programme. What was that like for you as the experience? Because I’ve heard sort of mixed thoughts from people about that show. 

FATS- I think my experience was good. It was just the approach at first, because as I started to get more popular on Instagram at the time they approached me, and I was thinking I watch the show but I wouldn’t ever go on it because I know I’m not undateable. But at the same time I thought about it, because I had declined going on the show at first, and then I thought about it, I thought okay, I could make my TV debut, I could inspire people, I could share my story. I just thought of the bigger picture. I think that’s what made me want to actually do it. And the experience was fun. The guy me and him obviously we’re not together. I’m with my man now. 

NIKKI- Who are you with now? 

FATS- It was a good experience. I’m with Alan, my forever man. We’ve been together nearly four years. 

NIKKI- Oh, forever man. 

FATS- Yeah, I’m hoping so. 

EMMA- So, you’re also going to be celebrity captain of the Superhero Series. 

FATS- Yeah.

EMMA- Can you tell us a bit about what it is about and what you’re going to do be doing? 

FATS- The Superhero Series is basically like a triathlon for disabled people. Marvel plays such a special part in the event, encouraging people to dress up as their favourite Marvel characters and to become their own superhero for the day. Growing up as a child, always being last in races, and I couldn’t compete with my fellow peers because physically I wasn’t as strong as them or as fast as them, so it made me feel inadequate. But being in a trath…triath…

EMMA- Triathlon. 

FATS- Triathlon [laughter] that was a tongue twister, being a triathlon where everyone is kind of on the same level and everyone has their own disability that they have to overcome is going to make it feel more united for everyone. 

EMMA- Yes. And you’re swimming? 

FATS- Yes, I’m going to be swimming. I need to get my swimming gear on and get practising. I’m going on holiday beforehand so I’ll be in the pool 24/7, learning to swim again. 

NIKKI- When is it all happening? 

FATS- It’s 12th August. 

NIKKI- Honestly, Fats, thanks so much for coming. Keep dancing and keep being hilarious, and come back and tell us about your next adventure, because I know that there will be one. Bye darling. 

FATS- Thanks very much, guys. Later.  

NIKKI- I love Fats Timbo. What a woman. Now, we are definitely going to have to have her back on again. But that is the end of the programme for this week. Thank you so much for listening. Over the next couple of weeks the podcasts are going to sound a little bit different, but we have got some amazing interviews, including one with a musician, a singer songwriter called Victoria Canal, who I just adore, and the phenomenal Tommy Jessop from Line of Duty. And just before the bank holiday weekend you can hear our show from the Edinburgh Festival fringe. We’ve not recorded it yet, but I’m just going to say a massive hello right now to any of you that are coming along. Please do come up to me and Emma and say hello. You can tell us how much you love us if you like, because both of us are incredibly needy. Until next week, goodbye. 

[Trailer for Ukrainecast]

CLIP- ‘I could feel our house shaking.’ ‘That was one of the scariest battles.’ ‘I’m traumatised.’ ‘I’m completely destroyed.’ 

VICTORIA- Hello, I’m Victoria Derbyshire, one of the hosts of Ukrainecast. We actually put out the first episode of Ukrainecast on the very first day of the war when Russia invaded Ukraine. 

MALE- This is a European country and it’s at war. It’s extraordinary. 

VICTORIA- So much has happened since then, and all the way through we’ve been trying to tell people’s stories, what’s really happening on the ground in Ukraine. 

CLIP- My elder daughter was lying on the ground. She had been dead.

VICTORIA- And we’ll be here for you, making sense of it all for as long as we need to be.

CLIP- ‘People were being snatched and disappearing.’ ‘People took to the streets even after the Ukrainian forces had gone.’ 

VICTORIA- Ukrainecast is made by the same ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ News team that makes this podcast. 

CLIP- This is it, this is the war of the direst evil against all of humanity. 

VICTORIA- Listen to Ukrainecast on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. Just search for Ukrainecast on ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ Sounds.