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David Gray has told 5 live that tragedy in music does not always lead to 'something deep' but listeners relate to simple 'cartoon' stories of terrible times to feel connected to artists.

"That's how people like to see artists, that's the connection they like to make, it's like the viewer of listener wants that cartoon story made flesh."

I personally don't think it's as simple as that. You are looking for that tap route of every song to go right down to what really matters and that's what I think really counts."

The full Phil Williams interview with David Gray can be found on the 5 live website at http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04gg8y7