³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ

Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4

Ìý

THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT.Ìý BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

Ìý

Ìý

IN TOUCH – Blinded in Ukraine; Forza Motorsport

TX:Ìý 17.10.2023Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

Ìý

PRODUCER:ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý BETH HEMMINGS

Ìý

Ìý

Ìý

White

Good evening.Ìý Later tonight:

Ìý

Clip - Forza Motorsport

Early evening. [Indistinct word] speedway, Japan.Ìý Cars blast through the wide flat turns with views of blossoming cherry trees.Ìý You whip around a slower driver in your hyper car as spectators cheer from large shaded grandstands.

Ìý

Track is clear to the left.Ìý Get on it.

Ìý

White

That’s what’s being described as the world’s first blockbuster motorsport game that’s now playable by blind people.Ìý A view which comes from an independent blind accessibility consultant, who we’ll be hearing more from later in the programme.

Ìý

But first, back to harsh reality.Ìý The story of war, loss, love and a determination to help other people in the same boat.Ìý The grim events in the Middle East have temporarily driven Ukraine from the headlines but that doesn’t stop the carnage from going on there.

Ìý

Guerin

We’ve come to meet a couple who are newlyweds.Ìý They live in a high rise, an old Soviet style high rise block at the edge of Kyiv.Ìý They’ve told us that the lift isn’t too reliable, so it’s better to walk.Ìý

Ìý

White

This story was brought to our attention by our Senior International Reporter, Orla Guerin.Ìý Orla’s been talking to one of the many casualties of the war about how he’s dealt with the effects of losing his sight whilst dismantling mines.

Ìý

Guerin

Hello?Ìý Hi Valeria, nice to meet you, I’m Orla, ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ.Ìý Thank you, thank you so much.

Ìý

I’m sitting with Vlad and Valeria Yeschenko.Ìý Vlad is 25, he’s wearing a combat t-shirt and shorts.Ìý Valeria is 21.Ìý They met just a few days before Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, full-scale invasion, in February of 2022 and they got married just a short time ago.Ìý Vlad went to fight when Russia invaded.Ìý He was working as a de-miner.Ìý And their lives have been changed completely since then.Ìý

Ìý

Vlad, can you tell me about the day you were injured?

Ìý

Vlad Yeschenko through interpreter

It happened on 9th August when I was on a combat mission.Ìý Our task was to dismantle an anti-personnel mine.Ìý It was a PFM-1, we call it a petal mine.Ìý So, off we went on our mission.Ìý My job was to isolate the mines.Ìý The self-destruct device went off in one of them.Ìý We had collected 84 of them in the isolation spot and that explosion set off all the others.Ìý I was only an arm’s length away.Ìý I must have been thrown several metres by the blast.Ìý I didn’t have a sense of pain but rather a feeling of intense concussion and sudden darkness because the blast had gorged out my eyes and burned them.Ìý And all I could hear was a ringing in my ears, nothing else except that ringing.

Ìý

Guerin

Vlad, it’s a difficult question but could you tell me what has happened with your eyesight?

Ìý

Vlad Yeschenko through interpreter

I currently do not have eyes.Ìý They were removed because they couldn’t be saved.Ìý The blast wave burnt and blew them out and they were also torn by shrapnel.Ìý As a result, my eyes were surgically removed in the hospital.Ìý And now I have cosmetic prosthetic lenses.Ìý They can be taken out and put back in and they are not attached to anything, so I don’t have any vision at all.

Ìý

Guerin

Vlad, when you volunteered to fight, did you ever consider the possibility that you might be injured or that you might die?

Ìý

Vlad Yeschenko through interpreter

Of course, this is war, I had been experiencing it since 2014 when my city was first occupied.Ìý I witnessed the deaths of both soldiers and civilians.Ìý This time it’s much more serious than in 2014.Ìý When I volunteered many people asked me – why I choose to become a sapper.Ìý It’s because every explosive we find and neutralise is a life saved.Ìý I paid the price with the loss of my eyes and part of my health but not my entire life.

Ìý

Guerin

Valeria, what was it like, the moment, when you first saw Vlad after he was injured, can you remember what that moment was like?

Ìý

Valeria Yeschenko through translator

It was the first day when he was brought to Kyiv or more precisely it was the second day, since he was already in the intensive care unit connected to various medical devices.Ìý I was suddenly and unexpectedly allowed to enter the intensive care ward.Ìý I walked in with fear, tears in my eyes and a lump in my throat, not knowing what to expect.Ìý And there was Vlad, completely burnt on his face, covered in a black crust.Ìý His arms had wounds and cuts from shell fragments and was slightly burnt.Ìý The same was true for his legs, chest and upper chest.Ìý His face was heavily bandaged, it might have been a terrifying sight for anyone but not for me.Ìý I sat there holding his hand with tears running down my face because I didn’t know what to say to him.Ìý That’s all I can recall from that moment.Ìý All my emotions from the time were drained out of me.

Ìý

Guerin

You’ve come through a lot together in the last year.Ìý How has that changed your relationship?

Ìý

Valeria Yeschenko through translator

It’s only strengthened our relationship further.Ìý Going through such a challenging journey we developed a deep understanding of each other and a stronger connection.Ìý We began to trust each other even more than we did before.

Ìý

Guerin

You’re a young married couple now, newlyweds, and Vlad has been injured and the country is still at war, do you have any fears about the future?

Ìý

Valeria Yeschenko through translator

To be honest, I don’t think much about my future now because, as you’ve said, there is a war in the country and the situation is not stable.Ìý Every minute something can change.Ìý So, it might be silly to make any plans now.

Ìý

Guerin

And Valeria, can you tell me a bit about the charity and what you and Vlad are trying to do?

Ìý

Valeria Yeschenko through translator

We help people who have lost their eyesight during the war, whether they’re civilians or combatants.Ìý We provide psychological support, vehicle assistance and aid and physical rehabilitation.Ìý We have signed memorandums with those who can conduct physical rehabilitation to teach individuals how to walk with a stick, how to eat independently and how to take care of themselves in their daily routines, such as finding their clothes, boots and brushing their teeth.Ìý It could also be exercising in the gym or outdoors.

Ìý

Guerin

Vlad, have you every regretted your choice to go and fight?

Ìý

Vlad Yeschenko through translator

No, I will probably repeat the same.Ìý I know that our actions saved a significant number of lives.Ìý I’ve been asked many times – look at yourself now and what’s happening to you, if you could go back to that day when you first decided to become a volunteer would you still do it?Ìý I answer – 100%, without a shadow of a doubt, yes.Ìý Here deep inside each of us is the soul of a Ukrainian, our unbreakable Ukrainian spirit.Ìý Give me just one healthy eye right now and I’ll go back to my comrades.

Ìý

Guerin

Everybody understands about those who died in the war and people feel very sorry for their families but do you think there isn’t enough understanding about those who, like you, have survived but are badly injured?Ìý Is there enough support for people like you here in Ukraine?

Ìý

Vlad Yeschenko through translator

Since the moment I was wounded the myth and illusions that you are no longer needed and that you have fulfilled your duty and now on your own has been completely dispelled for me because I’ve gone through a very long, very difficult path of recovery.Ìý As for medical rehabilitation and care, I want to express my profound gratitude to the doctors who pulled me back from the brink.Ìý They gave me no more than a 20% chance of survival.Ìý I survived and now I’m strong and fully recovered.Ìý I’ve been granted a pension; I’m getting benefits and I received compensation.Ìý I was awarded the Order of Courage.Ìý So, it’s 100% support and care at the level of the resources available.

Ìý

Guerin

Vlad, you’ve come through a lot of operations, a lot of procedures and you’re home now, what future do you see for you and Valeria?

Ìý

Vlad Yeschenko through translator

I’m trying to be a living example that even after facing all the hardships on the frontline, the challenges associated with severe injury and losing my eyes, life doesn’t end.Ìý At the moment, I’m involved in charity work and I have my own charitable organisation.Ìý I also present online broadcasts and streams to raise money for our soldier on the front.Ìý I always tell everyone that I didn’t see as many opportunities and prospects for charity work and doing good before my injury as I do now, I’m blind.Ìý It sounds ironic, I know.Ìý And our future, of course, I see as our common future and all our actions will be focused on doing good things.

Ìý

White

Vlad and Valeria Yeschenko.

Ìý

I now a little light after the shade of war.Ìý We’ve been reporting for some time now on the progress being made in creating video games that are accessible for blind people to play.Ìý Developments in gaming have been a slow burner and they’re still far from perfect but there is some excitement surrounding a motor racing simulator game called Forza Motorsport.Ìý One of those getting a thrill from it is Brandon Cole, who’s been on the programme before, he’s an independent accessibility consultant on games and he’s been working with Turn 10 Studios, they’re the company which has created this game.Ìý And Brandon joins me from Colombus, Ohio.

Ìý

First of all, Brandon, tell us what this latest game allows you to do, paint a picture for me.

Ìý

Cole

Well, I think, the best picture I can paint is to the blind community I offer you control.Ìý So, some previous games, even in the Forza franchise, only allowed you to control basically the throttle and basically have the game kind of drive for you.Ìý This game allows you, the blind player, to have full control of your vehicle with all the information you need to succeed, including when there’s an upcoming turn, when you need to brake or slow down, where the track limits are – all those things are available to you and provided in real time.

Ìý

White

And those special features, are they mainly audio features?

Ìý

Cole

They are, primarily, audio cues, some are human voice cues, some are done by narration via text to speech, some are just audio cues that will kind of give you an auditory indication of something.Ìý For instance, the track limit cues…

Ìý

Clip – Forza Motorsport

Second, first.Ìý Second.Ìý

Ìý

Cole

They kind of rise up in speed and pitch as you approach the edge of the track.Ìý And when you’re on the very edge of the track there will be one solid tone that indicates, hey you’re on this edge, left or right, it’ll play on your left or right side to confirm that for you as well.Ìý So, we developed a series of features that we call blind driving assist and we wanted to really emphasise that because it brings out the fact that this is the community this is for, we wanted to really welcome the blind community to Forza and this is how we did that.

Ìý

White

And why are these kinds of developments a big deal, almost a game changer in accessible gaming?

Ìý

Cole

The thing about accessible gaming is, a lot of the games that we played before the video game industry started picking up on the idea that we wanted to play their games too, were audio only games, games that were made specifically for the blind.Ìý Those games, because they’re audio only and because they are made by small, small developers, sometimes one to two people, those games don’t have a lot in the complexity area.Ìý There is an audio racing game, there’s a couple of them actually, however, they’re not very complex, they don’t use real racing physics, they don’t use, you know, weather simulation – all the crazy things that this one does.Ìý So, this, we’re offering the full experience of a triple A racing simulator and it’s going to be supported as time goes on.Ìý So, more of all of those things is coming.

Ìý

White

And, presumably, also, with the kind of relatively simple audio only games, they’re less attractive to be played by other people, particularly, playing with sighted people which I guess is – that’s the idea of inclusive gaming isn’t it?

Ìý

Cole

Exactly, exactly.Ìý This is a game where, you know, it will be a challenge to play against, for instance, a pro and this game does have quite a large and steep learning curve.Ìý But I think the big point here is that you can do it.Ìý If you want to play with your sighted friends, absolutely you can.Ìý Not only that, it’s just fun to have a multiplayer game on this scope.Ìý I’m actually still waiting for the day when we organise a full 24-person blind only race.Ìý That’s what I want to do.

Ìý

White

Right.Ìý I’m sure that may come.Ìý I want to simplify this a bit because it’ll perhaps shock you to know, Brandon, that some people don’t know a great deal about video games…

Ìý

Cole

Sure.

Ìý

White

…blind or sighted.

Ìý

Cole

It’s alright.

Ìý

White

Do you play a game like this, usually, against other people or can you also play a game on your own, controlling all the action?

Ìý

Cole

There is options for both.Ìý And you can take a vehicle out on a test drive, which is something that I recommend to new players.Ìý So, you can start out as simple as you want.Ìý You can take it out on a test drive with no opponents and just drive around a track and get used to the systems, get used to how turns work, get used to doing everything on your own.Ìý You can take it in steps.Ìý What I usually recommend is you start with full assist on and then little by little you take control for yourself.

Ìý

White

Right.Ìý And can it be played on all the consoles?

Ìý

Cole

It cannot.Ìý This is an Xbox exclusive.

Ìý

White

Right.Ìý We’ve described you as an independent access consultant, you’ve been very upbeat about this, are you completely independent?Ìý I mean you were a consultant on this game, weren’t you?

Ìý

Cole

Yes, I worked on this game for over two years now.Ìý And the nice thing about this contract is I’m still on this game.Ìý Because Forza is a live service game, not only will the game get more content and get better but the accessibility features will also improve.

Ìý

White

Right.Ìý But if you’re a consultant to them, can you be completely independent, that’s my point?

Ìý

Cole

Kind of.Ìý You know, I do have a lot of freedom in the work that I do, so, you know, I have other clients.Ìý I am allowed to work for other game developers, in the way that I have things set up.Ìý So, in that sense, yes.

Ìý

White

So, what’s still to be done?Ìý I mean it can’t be really quite as perfect as you’re making out, can it?

Ìý

Cole

It’s not perfect, no, because I’ll be the first to admit that it’s not perfect.Ìý We’re getting there though.Ìý One of the things we want to work on a lot is traffic awareness.Ìý We currently believe that the system isn’t fully optimised for multiplayer situations with sighted competitors, at least… especially at a high level because they’re much more unpredictable than the artificial intelligence like controlled players that you play in single player mode.Ìý So, we do want to do some more work on traffic awareness, making you aware of where your opponents are at any given time, making you aware of your own position, things like that.Ìý Also, we did a really good job of meriting almost every screen in the game but there’s a couple of them we haven’t gotten to yet.Ìý One of them delivery editor, which allows you to design your cars to whatever specifications you want to, as far as like cosmetics and stuff like that.Ìý And that holds value to some people, even totally blind people, you might be surprised, a lot of totally blind people have really, really requested this feature, had really wanted this.

Ìý

White

I’m intrigued if people who’ve, you know, never been able to see want to do that.

Ìý

Cole

Yeah, I know, it’s every kind of blind person.Ìý Not everyone wants it, not everyone cares a whole lot about it but the thing is some people do, just because they want to know that something is theirs.Ìý It’s kind of the creation idea, you may not be creating the car itself but the idea that they could design it on their own, the idea that that is, at least, possible is intriguing to them and they want to make their own design because of that.Ìý Now there’s a lot to learn.Ìý We had to do our best to provide as much information as we could to someone who’d be totally blind, who may be starting this game having not played a racing game before or not knowing basically nothing about driving a car.Ìý So, that’s kind of where the learning curve comes in.Ìý But it can be done, as demonstrated by the community of blind Forza players who are doing it.

Ìý

White

Right.Ìý Just finally, Brandon, how far do you think we are now from an acceptance by gaming studios that access for visually impaired people should be a core part of what they do?

Ìý

Cole

I think we’re getting closer all the time.Ìý I think we’re still a ways away.Ìý Certainly there are more games coming that aren’t going to be accessible but the fact that I’ve launched two games in two months it means we’re getting there, it means we’re getting closer.

Ìý

White

Brandon Cole, thank you very much indeed.

Ìý

Cole

Thank you as well.

Ìý

White

And that’s it for today.Ìý We welcome your comments, of course, your experiences, your stories and, in particular, we’re interested in your – You can’t do that – stories, where you’ve been put off a job, say, a project, a challenge because of your sight and then proved people wrong.Ìý You can email intouch@bbc.co.uk, leave voice messages on 0161 8361338 or go to our website for more information and to download tonight’s and previous editions of the programme, that’s bbc.co.uk/intouch.Ìý

Ìý

From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio manager Helen Williams, goodbye.

Ìý

Ìý