成人快手

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IN TOUCH 鈥� A Near-Fatal Train Accident; Music Producer Robin Millar

TX:听 04.07.2023听 2040-2100

PRESENTER:听 听听听听听听听听 PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:听听听听听听听听听听听 BETH HEMMINGS

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White

I鈥檓 standing just outside Manchester鈥檚 Piccadilly Station with Abdul Eneser.听 Abdul is a blind student who, until very recently, would have described himself as a confident rail traveller but two recent incidents have seriously damaged that confidence and one, in particular, could have been disastrous.

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Abdul, let鈥檚 start with that first and very serious incident.听 Just explain what happened.

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Eneser

Yeah, so it was just a very regular journey.听 I was travelling back from Glasgow, where I鈥檓 a student, the first part of the journey was delayed and I ended up missing my connection at Preston.听 Preston didn鈥檛 inform Manchester Piccadilly that I wasn鈥檛 on my original train and therefore, I didn鈥檛 get passenger assistance when I arrived at Manchester Piccadilly 90 minutes later.听 I was met by the signalling person at platform 13 and 14, he told me that he needed to go and dispatch a train from the opposite platform.听 I tried to make my way out and I just assumed that those two platforms were hard tactile paving and I just stepped two steps and ended up on the tracks.听 And then I got approached by the signalling guy, got told that there鈥檚 a freight train passing by, a non-stop freight train, and that I needed to get myself up as soon as possible.听 I left all my belongings 鈥� my cane, my bag and my phone on the tracks 鈥� I was very lucky to make it out of there, to be honest.

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White

Were the staff at Manchester Piccadilly made aware that you would be arriving later than they had originally been told?

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Eneser

I mean assuming that everyone had gone home, I don鈥檛 think they were made aware but I was told by Preston that they did make them aware.听 I think the complication is there鈥檚 two train companies involved who are managing the two different stations 鈥� so Avanti managing Preston, Network Rail managing Piccadilly 鈥� and I think there was just a lack of communication between those two.听 I was promised an incident report into what happened four to six weeks after the incident.听 I waited for that, didn鈥檛 receive it and that鈥檚 when I thought these guys are not taking it seriously enough, it鈥檚 just a disaster waiting to happen and I will feel so guilty if it did happen to someone else who is visually impaired and I didn鈥檛 do anything about it.听 So, when I didn鈥檛 receive my incident report, that鈥檚 when I thought 鈥� yeah, I needed to seek legal support for this.听

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We鈥檝e sent Network Rail and the other defendants 鈥� Avanti and Northern 鈥� a letter before action back in November, we鈥檙e still waiting for a response.听 They haven鈥檛鈥�

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White

So, that鈥檚 eight months, eight months after you sent that letter you haven鈥檛 had a response?

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Eneser

No, they have until 17th 听of this month to respond.

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White

Right.听 And you鈥檝e actually been involved in another incident very recently, what happened there?

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Eneser

So, I was travelling from Glasgow, same kind of journey, to Manchester, but I was changing, instead, at Warrington Bank Quay.听 Passenger assistance didn鈥檛 turn up at Warrington and then I ended up going through to Crewe because no one turned up.听 I made my way off and a member of the public helped me to the barriers, where I was able to receive assistance at Crewe to go back to Manchester.听 But then I was later then informed, by the member a staff, that the platform that I got off at also didn鈥檛 have tactile paving and if I did try to make my way to the barriers from where I got off, potentially, a similar case might have happened.

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White

I mean do you use the passenger assistance system quite a lot鈥�

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Eneser

Yeah.

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White

I mean how do they normally perform?

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Eneser

They鈥檙e normally pretty good, when you obviously use the specific stations quite a lot.听 But my case is not a one off, like I know a lot of visually impaired people who have been let down by the service.听 What the train providers need to understand is that when passenger assistance goes wrong it鈥檚 not like a train delay, where you can be compensated, when it goes wrong it goes horribly wrong.

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White

Abdul Eneser who I spoke to earlier this week.

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Well, we did invite both train operators involved 鈥� Avanti and Northern Rail and Network Rail, which has responsibility for station safety 鈥� to come on to the programme, all three declined on the grounds that legal proceedings were taking place.听 All expressed regret for Abdul鈥檚 accident.听 In addition, Network Rail have told us that tactile paving has now been installed on those two outer platforms at Manchester Piccadilly Station 鈥� 13 and 14 鈥� not as a result of Abdul鈥檚 fall but because the work was already scheduled to be done.

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Well, joining us now is Kate Egerton, she鈥檚 the solicitor who鈥檚 representing Abdul and is with the law firm Leigh Day.

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Kate, there are two distinct elements to this case:听 There鈥檚 the absence of a tactile warning surface on those two platforms at Manchester Piccadilly, at the time of the accident and there鈥檚 also the apparent failure of the passenger assist service.听 So, on what basis are you bringing this case?

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Egerton

We鈥檙e bringing Abdul鈥檚 claim in relation to both aspects.听 We regularly get inquiries from disabled people who are left stranded on trains or attempt to get off trains and there鈥檚 no one to meet them on the platform.听 We鈥檝e represented people in the past who have either fallen from platform edges without tactile paving and we also represented Sekha Hall, who was Cleveland Gervais鈥� partner who tragically died in 2020, when he fell from a platform edge at Eden Park Station.

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White

And that was a case, of course, we covered here on In Touch.

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We know, because we鈥檝e been pressing Network Rail and the Department for Transport for some time, about the provision of tactile surfaces on stations.听 We know that more money has now been provided by the Department for Transport, so that this work can be completed far earlier than was scheduled, so what more can be achieved by a court case?听 As awful as this is, it sounds as if the problem has been properly recognised.

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Egerton
It has been recognised but I understand, from RNIB figures, that 40% of platform edges still don鈥檛 have tactile paving.听 I鈥檇 also query how stations have been prioritised given, I understand, the Crewe is quite a major interchange for people and quite a busy station and yet tactile paving was still lacking at the platform at which Abdul alighted.听 And we鈥檙e slightly unclear about who exactly is taking the initiative, taking the lead, in terms of providing response from the rail industry.

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White

And we would, of course, have asked them that if they鈥檇 agreed to come on the programme.

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What would you hope to achieve for Abdul because he could have been seriously injured or even killed in that situation?

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Egerton

We would hope to get him some financial compensation but also a declaration from the court that Network Rail and all the train operating companies unlawfully discriminated against him.听 We also hope that, as Abdul says, that this precedent in this case might be used whereby we can establish that these bodies have duties to disabled people to make sure that their environment is safe.

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White

Kate Egerton, thank you very much indeed and we will, of course, continue to monitor the case for In Touch.

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Music 鈥� Smooth Operator

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Well, I鈥檓 sure I鈥檓 not the first person to comment that blind music producer Robin Millar could hardly have a more appropriate signature tune.听 Smooth Operator sung by Sade, of course, is taken from the album Diamond Life which has had sales of over 10 million worldwide.听 Robin has gained over 160 gold platinum discs, including over 40 number one hits and in addition to his reputation as one of the world鈥檚 top record producers, he co-founder artist management and publishing company Blue Raincoat Music, which is built on the principles of equality, diversity and inclusion.听 And last week, to top it all, he felt the Royal hand on his shoulder 鈥� he鈥檚 now Sir Robin Millar.

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Sir Robin, are you getting used to that?

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Millar

Not yet, Peter, thank you.听 No, not quite.听 It鈥檚 not exactly imposter syndrome and in fact it was Prince William who reminded me, because he put his hand on my hand and he said: 鈥淚鈥檝e been reading about you, you鈥檝e really had quite a long journey haven鈥檛 you?鈥澨� I鈥檇 stopped for a second and I said:听 鈥淵ou know what, I have, yeah.鈥澨� You and I have both met astounding young men and women, who鈥檝e achieved incredible things and have definitely inspired but I think about all people with blindness and other disabilities, whatever is different about you, whatever鈥檚 special about you 鈥� and a disability is special 鈥� you can and should find the one thing that you鈥檙e better at than anything else.听 And if you do, you can get there.

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White

I mean you must have told this story many times but I do want to know 鈥� how did this all start, what took you into record production?

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Millar

I鈥檓 sure this will resonate with lots of people listening here Peter.听 My mum and dad were deeply concerned as to my future, in terms of financial stability.听 They knew I was keen on music but they knew I was also going off to study law.听 And my dad said: If you complete your law studies, you鈥檒l have something that can earn you a living and then you can go on an adventure.听 So, I did complete my law studies but music was always what I wanted to do and I took a sideways move and got an apprenticeship in a recording studio and 鈥� well, that was the end of my law career and that was the beginning of my journey to record production.听 It was a happenstance, actually, Peter.听 A friend of a friend of a friend invited me to a recording studio because his brother-in-law鈥檚 sister鈥檚 wife鈥檚 dog was doing an advert for Kennel Meat or something and I just fell in love with the place, the space, the quietness 鈥� the door shuts, the world goes away and you just focus.听 I love it.

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White

And the other fascinating thing is another thing we鈥檝e got in common because I walked away from a law degree to follow the thing I wanted to do鈥�

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Millar

Do you know I didn鈥檛 know that.

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White

Well, we鈥檝e just found out a bit more about each other on the radio.听 Why production rather than performance because I know you are 鈥� you are an instrumentalist, you are a musician?

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Millar

Yeah, good question and, in fact, a year ago, I went on stage for the first time for ages and I鈥檇 forgotten how scary it is.听 I was touring and my eyesight was getting worse and I was having to make more elaborate 鈥� putting lights on, spotlights, lights on the neck of my guitar, measuring distances, walking backwards and forwards, a new venue, a new gig every day.听 I have huge admiration for blind people who go places, go out and about.听 I just found it all so stressful and tiring.听 And I fell off a stage and I just thought 鈥� this isn鈥檛 making the most of what I鈥檓 good at, which is my ears and my way with people.听 There鈥檚 lots of better guitarists around than me but maybe there won鈥檛 be so many good audio engineers or record producers.

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White

Now some of us who are blind struggle a bit with modern technology, I do, and yet you are rated as one of the pioneers of digital technology in music.听 Clearly you don鈥檛 struggle with it.

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Millar

I don鈥檛.听 I think it came along at the right time for me, Peter.听 I鈥檇 never had any training in a blind context, as a child or growing up, or even through college, you know, I just sort of muddled through.听 But about the same time as my eyesight was getting so bad that I couldn鈥檛 actually see what was written on the knobs on a big old mixing desk, computers started taking over, Apple Macs in particular, started being a new carrier for sound and a new way of manipulating sound.听 And I went to the Royal National College for the Blind in Queens Park in North West London and I did a three-month course in computing and I learnt about coding and I learnt about programming and as time has gone on and the computer has more or less taken over from everything other than a microphone really now, and a pair of speakers, I鈥檝e designed and perfected and built my own scripts for JAWS the screen reading software.听 It鈥檚 about being competitive really, Peter, it鈥檚 about the fact that you know what a drag it is, if you鈥檝e got a disability and you either have to pay or you have to ask your employer to pay or you have to ask the government to pay, it鈥檚 one obstacle in the way of being competitive.听 So, now, I mean, I can record, get levels, produce a recording, mix, put sound sweetening on, ad reverb, you know, finish the results, put the right little metadata on and send it off to the factory.

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White

I鈥檓 lost in admiration.

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Millar

But I don鈥檛 do anything else, Peter.

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Music 鈥� Smooth Operator

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White

That album by Sade is one of that rare breed of instantly recognisable albums, you know, for a certain generation you hear it and you immediately say 鈥� yep, Sade.听 What do you think is so special about it?

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Millar

I got an email last week from a guy who worked with me at the studio at the time and he鈥檇 seen someone describe me as the original smooth operator.听 And he said: It鈥檚 a good job you didn鈥檛 work on the album Creep by Radiohead. [Laughter]

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White

I knew I鈥檇 pinch that line from someone, anyway.

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Millar

So, yes, I certainly did think of myself as smooth operator.听 Good comes out of good, in a way.听 We were raising money for Chilean Solidarity and I put the word out for people who could play Latin jazz and didn鈥檛 want paying.听 And in walked Sade.听 Now at that point, I could see 鈥� well, look, so many people listening to this 鈥� how many varieties are there of being blind, as many as there are on the supermarket shelves really.听 So, because of the way the light caught her and there I was when she walked in the door, I got a stunningly clear picture of what was immediately apparent to me was a superstar 鈥� the way she looked, the way she carried herself, just her speaking voice.听 And we got in the studio and they鈥檇 never been in a big recording studio before.听 And I鈥檇 been to college again, I鈥檇 learnt music arranging and I did think I was Quincy Jones at this point which I certainly wasn鈥檛, you know, I would have made a right hash of a Michael Jackson record.听 But fortunately, I knew about strings and percussion and brass and backing vocals and how to arrange tracks around.听 And I鈥檇 grown up with soul music, so I loved a groove, I really loved a groove, so I thought well as long as these tracks have got a groove and as long as they鈥檝e got these nice cool soul arrangements they鈥檙e going to work.

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Music 鈥� Smooth Operator

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And we mustn鈥檛 underestimate the value of the fact that Sade was put on a magazine, very influential magazine, with the Sobriquet, the face of 1984, and it was like suddenly everyone wanted to hear that record.

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White

Now you鈥檙e very dedicated to the idea of encouraging and helping performers with disabilities to make it in the music business.听 We had teenage singer Sirine Jahangir on the programme鈥�

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Millar

Oh, my goodness me, what a talent.

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White

Well, she was pretty complimentary about you as well, describing how much help you鈥檇 been to her as a mentor.听 So, I mean, this is something that鈥檚 important to you 鈥� bringing on people, giving them confidence?

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Millar

Yeah, it鈥檚 actually an end in itself, Peter.听 You and I met, very briefly, didn鈥檛 we, years ago with a young 16-year-old Andrew Coleman, young singer/songwriter.听 He鈥檚 still got a great career teaching others, funnily enough, he鈥檚 now the mentor, you know, teaching others.听 But that moment, once again charity, put on a concert, and for Andy to walk as a 16-year-old blind fellow, on to the stage, sit at a grand piano and deliver a song that he鈥檇 written because he's gone through what I鈥檝e gone through, what people listening here have gone through and because of how deeply you feel things so young, when you experience that kind of adversity, it came out and it soared across the Royal Albert Hall and it鈥檚 those moments that are inspirational.听 It鈥檚 not fear, you know, I don鈥檛 want to help Sirine because I鈥檓 worried that she won鈥檛 be able to earn a living or anything.听 A., once again, she鈥檚 an enchanting human being; B., once again, there鈥檚 a depth in there.听 I mean how old is she 鈥� 17?

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White

Eighteen, just eighteen.

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Millar

Yeah, there鈥檚 a depth in there.听 She and I shared a moment, knowing about that depth.

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White

Well, we were very impressed with her too.

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One final thing, time marches on, as you know but are you slowing down or are there still things you鈥檇 like to achieve?

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Millar

I鈥檝e got three more years to do as Chair of Scope and I absolutely include all blind and partially sighted people in what I try and do with Scope.听 People talk about moving the needle, you know, the needle only moves when you shout and when you stop shouting it goes right back down to zero again.听 So, rather than do that, I鈥檓 hoping to help make one or two irreversible changes for the benefit of people with disabilities.

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White

Sir Robin Millar, congratulations on the sir.

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Millar

It鈥檚 quite a thrill to be on In Touch, Peter, believe me, it is, it鈥檚 a thrill.

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White

Well, we鈥檝e much enjoyed having you on and I feel flattered to get that from you.听 Good to have you on, thank you very much indeed.

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That鈥檚 all we鈥檝e got time for today.听 Do tell us about anything at all you want to say or would like us to include in future programmes.听 Email intouch@bbc.co.uk.听 Leave voice messages on 0161 8361338 or go to our website, if you鈥檙e able, bbc.co.uk/intouch.听

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From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio manager Sue Stonestreet, goodbye.