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IN TOUCH 鈥� Energy Account Health; Flying with Your Guide Dog

TX:听 09.05.2023听 2040-2100

PRESENTER:听 听听听听听听听听 PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:听听听听听听听听听听听 BETH HEMMINGS

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White

Good evening.听 News later of a chance for guide dog owners to air their concerns about continuing problems in getting their dogs out of and back into the UK.

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Clip

We had to pay a lot of money 鈥� 170 Canadian dollars 鈥� to get the paperwork done.听 All the time hanging over is the fact that we were flying later that day and we might miss the flight.

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White

We鈥檒l have more on David Adams鈥� experience a little later in the programme.

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But first, no one wants to pay more than they have to for their energy, especially at the moment, with prices being sky high.听 So, Helen Pownall was startled to discover that her frail and visually impaired mother-in-law, Diana Williams, we paying a pretty hefty bill, despite having a credit balance well into the thousands.听 Helen discovered this only when Mrs Williams was going into care because she could no longer cope at home.听 And that wasn鈥檛 Helen鈥檚 only surprise.听 She contacted In Touch, she鈥檚 been telling me about her concerns.

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Pownall

We found that over the course of the previous few years the energy company had been sort of helping themselves to the direct debit but had run up a credit of 拢4,925.77.听 I was completely horrified because my mother-in-law was registered blind and so she should have been firstly, receiving the bills in a nice big font that she could read and understand and then help her manage her own bills.听 These were not happening; I didn鈥檛 pick up any large font.听 So, that was the first issue.听 The second issue, if you went back over the bills that she鈥檇 received was that none of them had any meter readings actually associated with them.听 So, appreciating that this was covid, but that being said, the meter unit was outside the property, so it would have been possible for somebody to go in and take a meter reading without necessarily putting themselves into contact or breaking the covid restrictions.

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White

So, just to get it clear, your mother was almost 拢5,000 in credit but she was still being charged direct debits 鈥� do you know exactly how much those direct debits were for?

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Pownall

Basically, there was an account review on October 2021 鈥� we鈥檝e reviewed your account, you need do nothing, your payment will be 拢240.听 So, 拢240 was going out of the account, basically, regardless.听 I mean I complained about the electric one.听 Obviously, the gas one was only 鈥� I would say, only going up to the tune of 拢700 in credit.听 So, all told there was about five and half thousand pounds worth of credit that had been amassed.听 But obviously, the electric one was the most extreme example.

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White

Your complaint, basically, was there was no attempt to lower the direct debit, even though her level of credit was so high?

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Pownall

Correct.听 And even though they鈥檇 done an account review.听 I did write to them and I said 鈥� look, we鈥檝e got a serious problem on our hands because, first of all, from my perspective, if you get a service you need to provide evidence that you鈥檝e actually provided that service or the service has been delivered to the extent that you鈥檙e claiming.听 So, there was no evidence, there was no attempt to collect or to make a declaration of how much electricity she鈥檇 used.

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White

Would your mother have been aware of these problems?

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Pownall

I don鈥檛 think so.听 If she鈥檇 have had the bills coming to her with large format, she would have been in with a chance.听 I鈥檓 amazed that actually the onus is on people with disabilities or people with visual impairment to actually get in touch with each individual service.听 So, I would love to see this as a central register where people just get, you know, it鈥檚 on an address and so you don鈥檛 have to do it each time you swap energy because everyone鈥檚 now 鈥� you know, you鈥檙e having to swap energy to keep your bills in a reasonable shape.

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White

Helen Pownall.听 Well, in a moment, we鈥檒l be hearing from the energy regulator and Mrs Williams鈥� supplier.听 But first, I鈥檓 joined by Joe Malinowski, who鈥檚 founder of the price comparison service The Energy Shop, which, among other things, provides advice about energy issues.听 Joe, first of all, what鈥檚 your initial reaction to Helen鈥檚 story?

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Malinowski

Shocked because I would say there are four issues that suppliers have obligations to in relations to the way this customer鈥檚 been treated, not just in relation to the fact that she鈥檚 a registered blind person but also, what should happen with meter readings, thirdly, what should happen with her direct debits and fourthly, what should happen with credit balances.听 And it looks like the supplier have failed materially on all those points.

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White

We鈥檒l come to them and looking at them individually in a minute but we did put Helen鈥檚 points to Ofgem, who are the energy regulator.听 They told us: 鈥淪uppliers are required to base direct debits on the most accurate available information to them.听 This includes things such as the customer鈥檚 consumption pattern, their tariff, the season and any credit already accumulated.鈥澨� The problem was compounded here by the fact that Mrs Williams鈥� account was transferred from Spark to Ovo, when Spark went into administration.听 Well, we did invite Ovo to come on to the programme, they said they wouldn鈥檛 be appearing on In Touch but they said they were happy for us to read out their on-the-record response.

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They said:

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Statement

We鈥檙e sorry Mrs Williams did not feel supported as one of our customers. Unfortunately, we were not made aware that she required large print and would have quickly arranged this for her.听 We can confirm that Mrs Williams鈥� credit was refunded following the change of tenancy and also, 拢100 in compensation was issued, at which point the complaint was closed.鈥�

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Joe, is it fair to say that under the circumstances Ovo have done what they could, i.e., refunded the credit and given her 拢100 compensation or could they have done more?

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Malinowski

I think they could have done more, I mean Ovo is one of the few companies that actually pays interest on a customer balances, that starts at 3% a year and rises to 5% if the credit has been there for three years or longer and it sounds like this has been around for a while.听 Now Ovo then also put a cap on the amount of money they will pay that interest on, at a 拢1,000.听 This was not a situation which was Mrs Williams鈥� problems, so by rights, she, in our opinion, should be entitled to interest.听 To me 拢100 compensation in the circumstances seems a bit measly.听

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Helen Pownall made the point that there should be an obligation on suppliers to keep a register, actually there is a register, it鈥檚 called the priority services register and the obligation on any supplier is they have an obligation to maintain a register of vulnerable customers and to take reasonable steps to identify who those domestic customers are.听 I mean they might have got something lost in the paperwork but had they identified 鈥� sorry in the transfer of the paperwork 鈥� but had they identified that Mrs Williams was a vulnerable customer they would then have had to ensure that they went and took meter readings for the customer if the customer wasn鈥檛 able to read the meter reading for themselves, which it appears that they did not do in this particular case.听 And then, as a result of that, when they did a review of the direct debits, they didn鈥檛 have the information that they should have had, taken all reasonable steps, to make sure it was correct, so they carried on taking money even though the account was materially in credit.听

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And I think that raises the final issue here which is the size of this credit balance because, again, what this legislation say, it says 鈥� you can ask your supplier to refund you at any time and suppliers must do so promptly unless they have reasonable grounds not to.听 But, of course, if Mrs Williams wasn鈥檛 aware of what her usage was or the fact that there was a massive credit building up on her account because she had not been identified, then she was not in a position to do that.听 And that鈥檚 why we have this sort of compounding effect going on here.

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White

Just on the credit issue, can you just explain why suppliers of utilities do allow credit to build up in this way?听 I mean Helen, clearly, believed that effectively they were just borrowing her mother-in-law鈥檚 money and letting it work for them.听 Is that fair or is there more to it than that?

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Malinowski

What happens with the usage profile, seasonal usage profile and therefore the bill profile, when you pay for your energy it鈥檚 not just a function of the tariff you鈥檙e on and what you鈥檝e paid but also how much you use and your usage varies quite significantly during the course of the year.听 So, it is quite normal that you would build up a credit balance over the course of the summer months, when your usage is low and that that credit balance would wind down or possibly even go negative during the winter months.听 But what shouldn鈥檛 be happening is that your credit balance should be building up and up and up when your usage is not changing, so that clearly should be a signal to any company to say that it is time to review that, we鈥檝e got this wrong, we either hand some of that money back or we actually reduce the direct debits to bring it back in line over time.听

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The second point is, why do suppliers do that, yes it is an extremely cheap source of finance for the energy companies because, you know, credit balances is not having to borrow money from the bank, right.

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White

Joe Malinowski, thank you very much indeed.

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Now, when pet passports were first introduced back in the 1990s, I think guide dog owners who wanted to travel with their dogs hoped that their problems were over and so it seemed for a time.听 But a number of recent factors 鈥� Brexit, staffing problems on airlines and at airports as a result of covid travel restrictions 鈥� seem to have led to a good deal of confusion about what documentation you need, who requires it etc.听 Well now, the Civil Aviation Authority, the CAA, is organising a consultation to find out more about the problems people are experiencing and what they would like done about it.听

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We鈥檙e going to be hearing from them in a moment but first, David Adams, who鈥檚 president of the European Guide Dog Federation, has been telling us about the kind of problems he鈥檚 been experiencing.

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Adams

It seems to me that every time you travel the rules change and it鈥檚 very confusing.听 I just recently went to Vancouver to the International Guide Dog Conference and we had to get an animal health certificate in Canada before we could come home and once we had it from a vet there, they told us we had to go to the government and get it stamped as official and there were no appointments for four weeks.

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White

And who is requiring that of you?

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Adams

Defra and the animal health people at Heathrow.听 In the past, all the information about the dog was on the pet passport 鈥� his chip number, his name, his breeding, his rabies injection and his worming tablets before he comes home 鈥� all on the pet passport which we were told at Heathrow, when we arrived last week, was not of any use to anybody, they won鈥檛 even look at the pet passport now.听 So, we had to get an eight-page document filled in, in Canada, by a local vet with all the same information on it basically.听 And it鈥檚 not a very big problem to get him there but bringing him back suddenly turned out to be an expensive time consuming [indistinct word].听 We had to pay a lot of money 鈥� 170 Canadian dollars 鈥� to get the paperwork done, we had to then take two expensive taxi rides to a government office to get the stamps put on by the government.听 All the time hanging over is the fact that we were flying later in that day and we might miss the flight.

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White

And are you hearing this kind of thing from other guide dog owners that you talk to?

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Adams

We鈥檙e contacted at least once or twice a week by somebody who has a problem, not necessarily with the pet passport but sometimes just because the airlines don鈥檛 know the ground rules and the airlines鈥� staff at the gate don鈥檛 know the ground rules.听 I really welcome the CAA work that they鈥檙e doing on the consultation to try and improve things.

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White

That was what I was going to ask you about.听 There a lot of people and organisations involved in a flight, so what is causing this confusion in your mind?

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Adams

Well, I鈥檓 fairly certain the biggest problem is a failure to train the customer facing staff.听 So, every time we show up at an airport, get to the desk, they have to find a supervisor, you stand there thinking you鈥檙e going to miss your flight, sometimes for up to an hour while they find somebody who鈥檚 got a basic knowledge of the ground rules, which are quite simple really but nobody鈥檚 trained to do it.

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White

So, is this a problem with the airlines, is it a problem on the ground with the airports or is it governments 鈥� who do you think is responsible?

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Adams

Well, the fact the EU have changed the rules, so we can鈥檛 use the pet passport anymore is one factor.听 We were trying to get also some people to take it on board and they just pass the buck from one to the other, nobody seems to want to grasp the nettle and say UK guide dogs and UK assistance dogs are okay to travel within Europe.听 We鈥檙e trying to get all sorts of people involved to try and get it sorted out.听 We鈥檙e not talking about pets, Peter, we鈥檙e talking about disability assistance equipment, if you like 鈥� like wheelchairs and walking sticks and hearing aids and spectacles.听 My dog鈥檚 my disability aid and it鈥檚 not a pet.听 There should be a derogation, or whatever they like to call it, from the rules so that guide dogs and assistance dogs for other people with disabilities, can travel with their essential piece of equipment, which happens to be a living sentient being.听 I mean you say that you have to get it at least one month in advance, well I鈥檓 in Brussels now, I鈥檒l be in Brussels in two weeks鈥� time, I was in Canada last week, you know, you just can鈥檛 do all the paperwork all the time and pay up to 拢250 a go for it, it鈥檚 ridiculous.

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White

David Adams, thank you very much indeed.

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Well, Paul Smith is Consumer Director and interim Joint Chief Executive of the Civil Aviation Authority.听 The CAA has already had a look at the responsibilities of airports in this matter.听 Paul explained to me what that had revealed.

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Smith

We have an existing framework for the role of airports in terms of helping customers who are less mobile or have a disability to get through the airport and to have a good experience.听 We鈥檙e now consulting on a framework for the role of airlines.听 So, all the way from the booking process, all the way through check-in, all the way through on-board the flights, with a view to rating the airlines in the same way that we have done that for the airports.

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White

Now consistency is the issue here, isn鈥檛 it?听 David says that different airlines tend to have differing requirements.听 I mean what can you do about this, is there any chance, for example, you could have a standardised approach by the airlines?

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Smith

Absolutely and it鈥檚 obviously disappointing to hear about David鈥檚 experiences.听 One of the aspects that we cover in this consultation is assistance dogs.听 What we鈥檙e looking to do is standardise the documentation 鈥� what鈥檚 the written confirmation that the dog has indeed been trained and proof that they meet the minimum training standards.听 So, what we will be doing is rating and reviewing the performance of airlines here and that鈥檚 how we鈥檒l help to drive consistency, how we鈥檒l make sure that 鈥� to the points that David makes 鈥� that the staff are trained and the staff are able to understand the documents that they should be able to accept so that people who have the requirement for an assistance dog are able to bring them on board and enjoy travel in the same way that everybody else does.听 We see a lot of work from airports and airlines to make improvements as we come into the summer period this year and we hope to see that play out in the reality of the experiences that people have when they travel.听 I think this system will always work best when airports and airlines are working together.

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White

But isn鈥檛 there a limit to what you can do, however good your intentions, after all the requirements and documentation don鈥檛 only come from airlines and airports but primarily from governments as well, so it鈥檚 going to be difficult, isn鈥檛 it, and also, of course, you have lots of interplay between different countries who will have different rules?

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Smith

You鈥檙e absolutely right.听 There are some limits to the role of the CAA here.听 We start from the perspective of trying to make sure that for the elements that we lead or have regulatory responsibility and that we鈥檙e doing the most that we can and that鈥檚 what this consultation about the airline accessibility framework is really trying to do.听 For sure, also, aviation is often an international journey and there will be airports and airlines operating in different countries that don鈥檛 fall within our jurisdiction but I think by setting out these standards, hopefully, that can encourage airlines who do operate across different countries to adopt those standards more generally and work to those standards.听 So, yes, our role is somewhat limited but I think by promoting good practice.听 And often what we are promoting here within this airline accessibility framework is guidance that has come from say IATA, the international airline trade organisation, so, these can be requirements that are already in place in other countries or guidance in other countries, we鈥檙e just really trying to promote and hold airlines to that level of performance.

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White

So, just finally, Paul, what information do most want, especially from visually impaired people, and how can they give that information to you?

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Smith

What we really want to understand here is 鈥� are we addressing the right issues in terms of the challenges that people face, have we got the right issues here, are we addressing all of the elements of the journey.听 So, go to our website 鈥� caa.co.uk.

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White

Paul Smith, thank you.

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And that鈥檚 it for today.听 We鈥檇 like to know about your experience of travelling with guide dogs recently.听 You can email intouch@bbc.co.uk, leave a voicemail for us on 0161 8361338 and for more information you can go to our website, if you鈥檙e able, bbc.co.uk/intouch, from where you can download both tonight鈥檚 and previous editions of In Touch.

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From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio manager, Amy Brennan, goodbye.

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