成人快手

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IN TOUCH 鈥� A Guide Dog at Gatwick Airport; A New Travel Companion on Trains

TX:听 28.02.2023听 2040-2100

PRESENTER:听 听听听听听听听听 PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:听听听听听听听听听听听 BETH HEMMINGS

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White

Good evening.听 Good news and bad tonight on what鈥檚 turned out to be something of a travel special.听 Later on, we鈥檒l be hearing about a new dedicated service for disabled passengers by one train company and what they claim it will add to the assistance already on offer.听 And the long awaited news that the provision of tactile paving on platform edges at all railway stations has been significantly speeded up.听 Can this new deadline be met?

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But for one airline passenger the experience hasn鈥檛 been so positive.听 We鈥檙e used to hearing, on this programme, about visually impaired passengers being left high and dry, waiting to be escorted to their flights but what happened, recently, to Eleanor Burke is a new one on us.听 Eleanor travels regularly back and forth between the UK and Ireland, where she has relatives, with her guide dog.听 Normally, it鈥檚 a pretty straightforward exercise, that is until what happened to her a few weeks ago.听 Eleanor is with us.听

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So, just explain, what happened and how it differed from what normally happens and should happen.

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Burke

Good evening, Peter.听 I travel regularly with Ryan Air and Ryan Air have provision when you鈥檙e booking your flight on the booking form to say if you require assistance.听 Another requirement from Ryan Air is that you send them all the relevant information in relation to your guide dog鈥� that includes my pet passport and also the yellow book which is issued by Guide Dog UK and normally this goes quite smoothly.

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White

So, let me be clear, Eleanor, do you actually need any physical documents on you, as far as the evidence about your dog is concerned?

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Burke

No.听 So, this is it.听 So, I went to go through the scanner and the security man asked me if I had a letter from the airline.听 I said, I didn鈥檛 have a hard copy letter but that on my luggage I had all the relevant passport for the guide dog plus the guide dog鈥檚 yellow book.听 He said, no, that wasn鈥檛 good enough, he wanted a letter.听 On my phone I had an email from the accessibility department at Ryan Air saying that they were happy for me to travel with my guide dog.听 I also, then, had my boarding pass, which I had in electronic format, this clearly showed my seat number and that I was travelling with a guide dog.

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White

So, as far as you鈥檙e concerned, at that point you had everything that you needed.听 The airline had everything that was needed.听 So, what went wrong and what happened next?

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Burke

Well, from what I could ascertain the security man seemed to have really dug his heels in on this one.听 He contacted Ryan Air by telephone to find out what was going on.听 It would appear that he also contacted the Ryan Air representative ground staff, she then said to me that travelling in future I should go to the Ryan Air desk, once I got to the airport, and I should ask for my boarding pass to be printed out, so this was news to me.听 And I had been kept waiting for one hour for all of this.听 One might expect there could be up to a 10 minute wait but never one hour.听 So, I was very upset by this.听 But I was really more upset by the way I was being treated and I just felt that I wasn鈥檛 getting the respect 鈥� just the respect of one person to another.听 I felt that I was being treated in a patronising way and I felt powerless.听 And I know one cannot get short-tempered in these situations because otherwise one is accused of being ill-mannered, so I had to try and go along and be as patient as possible.

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White

But given that you鈥檇 done this quite a lot of times before, were you given any explanation of why there was a problem on this occasion?

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Burke

No, no explanation.听 After one hour we were just told you can go through now.听 It was only, subsequently, when I wrote in that it was suggested to me that perhaps the security person needed more training.听 But I really put it to Gatwick customer service that I really had felt discriminated against.听 Lots and lots of people were going through within that one hour, I was held back because I had a guide dog.听 Initially, I was told that they had viewed CCTV and I was pleased with that because that authenticated what I was saying.听 But the customer service department felt that I had not been discriminated against.听 I think they were also trying to blame the pandemic, saying they had new staff since post-pandemic and maybe more training was required and more experience.

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White

What more would you like to see done as a result of your experience?听 I guess a bit more than the offer of a bunch of flowers?

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Burke

Yes the offer of a bunch of flowers is rather 鈥� you know very poor compensation, I feel, for the way I was treated.听 I would really leave that up to Gatwick Airport to make me some form of suitable compensation in recognition of the way I had been treated and to actually recognise that I had been treated less favourably, in other words discriminated against, on this occasion.

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White

Eleanor Burke, thank you very much indeed.

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Well, listening to that has been Adam Jones.听 Adam is Head of Passenger Services at Gatwick.听 Adam, quite simply, if you could, why did this happen, given that it seems to be accepted, generally, that Eleanor had done absolutely everything she could have done and should have done to inform people she was travelling with a guide dog?

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Jones

So, firstly, I have to apologise profusely for Miss Burke鈥檚 experience here.听 As you said, she had done everything right and unfortunately, on this occasion, some of our security team didn鈥檛 follow their training or our processes which caused the issue she had in the security area.听 We鈥檙e taking steps, obviously, having reviewed this incident to make sure this doesn鈥檛 happen again.

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White

I mean should people be administering security if they haven鈥檛 been trained properly and don鈥檛 know the rules?

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Jones

We have a very large airport security team here who are all trained to the standards set by the CAA, which we鈥檙e regularly audited on, and we train them for every eventuality, including this.听 On this occasion, like I said, I have to apologise, we let Miss Burke down.听 We鈥檝e refocused the individuals involved to make sure they know how to act next time and the wider security team will be briefed on what steps to take in a similar situation and if they鈥檙e unsure they can quickly summon a duty manager who will make sure anyone such as Miss Burke gets through really quickly.

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White

This is actually one of the questions I was going to ask you because one is used to 鈥� but I mean I go as a blind person, go through security quite a lot and you do have this problem that it鈥檚 a fairly chaotic situation for a start, the rules seem to change from day-to-day 鈥� do I have to take off a coat, do I have to take off my shoes 鈥� and I frequently find myself stuck on the other side of security with a piece of my specialist equipment being sort of puzzled over but not having the chance to talk to anybody about it.听 I mean how can somebody summon qualified help when you get a problem like the one Eleanor had?

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Jones

So, you should be absolutely be able to ask any member of our staff for help and if you鈥檙e not getting the help you need from them they should call a duty manager, who鈥檚 always available in the security area, to come and help.听 Obviously, if passengers are travelling with special assistance support from our service provider they can, of course, also be on hand to assist you as well.

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White

I mean I just wonder, is this really a security issue?听 I mean surely you鈥檙e looking for far more important things when carrying out a security check than someone with a guide dog.

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Jones

Of course, part of the security requirement is to make sure no one crosses from the landside to the airside part of the airport unless they鈥檙e permitted to and are travelling.听 And this involves all sorts and checking that any animals with them are service animals and can also go through security.听 As I said, that should have been a seamless, easy, process for Miss Burke, it wasn鈥檛 on this occasion and we are taking steps, having reviewed the incident, to make sure it doesn鈥檛 happen again.

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White

So, what lessons does Gatwick take from this incident?

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Joens

Well, as part of our investigation, we have identified that across the 40 airlines who fly from Gatwick, there are some slightly different processes in letting us know that a passenger is travelling with an assistance dog. 听So, our accessibility manager is going to work with our airlines to try and get one common process, that everyone鈥檚 aware of, everyone follows and that will make it easier for our staff, then, to ensure they鈥檙e following the correct process and procedure.听 And that鈥檚 taking place right now.

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White

I鈥檇 like to pick up one thing with you.听 Eleanor mentioned that the pandemic got mentioned, aren鈥檛 people getting really rather fed up with the fact that the pandemic is cited every time there鈥檚 a bit of a problem?听 I mean, you know, the rules have relaxed now for over a year, isn鈥檛 it time that, in that sense, things are back to normal and people who are doing the job know what they鈥檙e doing?

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Jones

Yes and that is absolutely not an excuse in this situation.听 Our customer service team, I think, pointed out that we鈥檇 hired 400 new airport security officers, so they鈥檙e in the central search area, we have trained them all appropriately.听 Maybe we just need to review and make sure that everyone is fully aware of how to handle situations such as this.听 But, of course, you鈥檙e right, this isn鈥檛 a result of the covid pandemic.

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White

So, just to be clear, one final point, Adam, for future travellers with guide dogs, what do they actually need to have done in order to comply with the various protocols that might be in place?

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Jones

So, right now they should follow the procedure their individual airline sets down. So, as Miss Burke did with Ryan Air, follow Ryan Air鈥檚 process and that will make sure that we get notified that a passenger鈥檚 coming with an assistance dog.听 Whilst I know it failed on this occasion and we鈥檒l look to make sure that process can be improved, it works for the vast majority of the time and so people should just follow their normal process.

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White

So, you don鈥檛 actually need, as Eleanor was told she did, to actually present any documents as you go through, any paper documents?

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Jones

That鈥檚 correct.听 Unfortunately, as well as our security officers not following their training and process, Ryan Air鈥檚 handling agent at the airport also gave Miss Burke some incorrect information there.听 So, Miss Burke being a regular traveller through Gatwick and over to Ireland, did exactly what she should do and as I said, I apologise for her experience here and we鈥檙e going to work hard to make sure it doesn鈥檛 happen again.

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White

Adam Jones and before that Eleanor Burke, thank you very much.

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Well, taking your guide dog on the train should, hopefully, be a rather simpler process than taking to the air but there are still plenty of things which can go wrong when you鈥檙e on the trains and the travel assistance offered at stations doesn鈥檛 always go without a hitch.听 Well now, one train company, Aventi West Coast, has just launched a dedicated communications channel to provide disabled passengers with instant help during their journey, in, what they鈥檙e describing, as a first for the UK rail industry.听 Called Travel Companion it will use the messaging app WhatsApp to connect you to someone who can offer specialist support while travelling.

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Well Martin Byrne and Ricky West are both visually impaired and they鈥檝e been recruited to advise on this service.

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Ricky, if I can come to you first.听 What kind of situations do you visualise where this service can be used?

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West

We鈥檙e hoping it鈥檚 going to be a layer support prior to your journey, during your journey and after your journey.听 So, it could be your correct tickets, knowing if you鈥檝e got the right one.听 So, what you could do is get in contact with us and ask 鈥� have I got the right ticket 鈥� because we鈥檝e partnered with Be My Eyes, so an independent app that, hopefully, most people know about and use, that connects through to the Aventi West Coast team, that would be myself and Martin in the social media team that have had accessibility training and we can identify that ticket for you.

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White

So, you鈥檙e anticipating this is going to be used mainly by people who are travelling on their own?

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West

It鈥檚 for anyone, it鈥檚 for any accessible requirement can sort of come through and get help and support.听 So, that鈥檚 a prior to your journey.听 During your journey people might need to identify their seats, they may, potentially, have been on the journey a long time and need to identify their luggage.听 If they need help and support from a train manager or onboard crew, we can get in touch with them and get them to come to the passenger, instead of them trying to having to find an onboard staff member.

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White

So, if you鈥檙e comparing it, for example, with the service that is offered at the moment with assistance with getting on the train, the main thing you鈥檙e anticipating this is going to be useful for, is actually during your journey?

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West

Yes, during the journey.听 So, passenger assistance is there to help you onboard, with connections and moving around the station.

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Byrne

Passenger assistance is a great service and it鈥檚 there to enrich the service, to sort of add extra value on to that.听 We will work hand-in-hand with those teams.听 And I think it gives that peace of mind and encourages independent travel, as well.听 I think it, hopefully, builds the confidence that there is somebody there throughout the journey because there may be an element of fear, people getting on the train, passenger assistance walking away, and you鈥檙e left on the train alone.听 Hopefully, with this methodology and connections to ourselves you can reach out to us if that need is there.

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White

One point I would like to make to you, I mean, WhatsApp is still a digital service, which requires the use of a smartphone, now that still limits the number of people who can use it.听 Is there a non-digital alternative to this?

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Byrne

Now, at this point, I have to say there isn鈥檛 and I will stress this is a trial.听 And what we are willing to look at and I鈥檝e already investigated the options around going to text messaging, it鈥檚, unfortunately, it鈥檚 the sort of 鈥� the inhouse management to keep it real time, is the challenge for management of this.听 But it鈥檚 not to say we won鈥檛 go down that route if we can get the technology in place moving forward.听 We understand there鈥檚 going to be people out there that will use text messages only and we are looking, hopefully long-term, to get a solution in place but, as we say, for this trial, at the moment, it is only WhatsApp.

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White

Martin Byrne, Ricky West, thank you both very much.听 And for those of you who are interested in trying out this service, the WhatsApp number you will find on our website, address at the end of the programme.

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And it is true that however confident and competent a visually impaired rail traveller you might be, things do go wrong on stations, which are potentially dangerous places.听 It鈥檚 something Sekha Hall knows only too well as his recent email reminded us.

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Hall (email)

It鈥檚 nearly three years ago that my partner, Mr Cleveland Gervais, died at Eden Park Station.听 He was registered blind and there was no tactile paving on the platform he fell from.听 I鈥檓 contacting you to see if you can help me find out what progress has there been on installing tactile paving across the rail network.

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White

Well, Sekha is referring to the roughened material, which has been fitted to some, but by no means all, platform edges in order to give a warning that you鈥檙e approaching a potential fall on to the tracks.听 In the inquiry, which followed Sekha鈥檚 partner鈥檚 death, which we reported on extensively on In Touch, it was established the lack of such a tactile warning, was a contributory factor to his partner鈥檚 death.听 Well, we, and a number of organisations representing blind people, such as the RNIB and Guide Dogs, have been persistently drawing attention to the fact that Network Rail had initially said that without more resources, they couldn鈥檛 complete this work until 2029.听 But in the light of Mr Hall鈥檚 request for more information to us, we鈥檝e been seeking confirmation from Network Rail and the Department for Transport that reports of more government money being available could be confirmed.

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Well, in a statement, Network Rail have told us:听 鈥淥ur programme to install tactile platforms continues bolstered by 拢75 million, which we were given by government last year.听 The programme is making good progress now with cross-industry help from train operating companies and it covers England, Wales and Scotland at all stations where tactile platforms had not been part of existing renewal plans.听 The funding runs until March 2025.鈥�

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Well, this sounds like good news and is certainly being interpreted as such by the RNIB and Guide Dogs.听 We are still trying to ascertain if funding continues until March 2025 can be interpreted as work will be completed by 2025.听 But as we record this programme, we鈥檝e still not had that confirmation.听 Watch this space and meanwhile listen out for this temporary safety solution, which you鈥檒l hear at a number of stations:

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Station announcement

Please be aware that some platforms at this station have no or only partial tactile paving on the platform edge.

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White

You have been warned.听

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Well, that鈥檚 it for today.听 Contacting us does make a difference.听 You can email intouch@bbc.co.uk, leave a voice message on 0161 8361338 or go to our website bbc.co.uk/intouch where you鈥檒l also find that WhatsApp number.

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From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio manager Amy Brennan, goodbye.

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