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IN TOUCH – Tactile Paving Updates; Accessible Lateral Flow Tests

TX:Ìý 01.03.2022Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý BETH HEMMINGS

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White

Good evening. ÌýBetter late than never could well be our watchword for tonight’s programme.Ìý For example, finally, there’s a way for some, though not all, visually impaired people to take a lateral flow covid test almost independently.

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Clip

Hello, my name’s Chloe and I’m a specialist agent from the NHS Test and Trace.Ìý So, do you want to take the swab, if you hold it by the very end and you just kind of like swab over your tonsils and the back of your throat for like 10 seconds.

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[Sniff] Okay.

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Perfect.Ìý And then if you get the little vial for the liquid.

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Yeah, if I put this right to the screen – is it in?

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And then you can snap it where the little ridge was.

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Oh cool.

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White

We’ll be finding out more later on.

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But first, could we be closer to making all UK railway stations safer by the installation of tactile surfaces to indicate the edge of platforms?Ìý This past weekend marked two years since the death of blind rail passenger Cleveland Gervais at Eden Park Station in South East London where there were no markings to warn him of the platform’s edge.Ìý Last year it was announced that the Department for Transport was allocating £10 million to Network Rail to install tactile paving at 200 priority train stations by 2029.Ìý But as we reported on this programme, that timeframe was criticised by a number of visual impairment organisations for not being nearly quick enough.

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Well now the Office of Rail and Road, that’s the railways regulator, has submitted their responses to the government’s Rail Accident Investigation branch’s report about Cleveland Gervais’ death.Ìý Well, we’ll be speaking to Network Rail in a moment.Ìý But first, Chris Davies is the principal inspector of railways at the Office of Rail and Road and he joins us now.

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Chris, the investigation made it clear that the absence of tactile markings contributed considerably to Mr Gervais’ death.Ìý What conclusions did you come to about what should be done about this and what were the main factors in your report?

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Davies

There’s three really.Ìý The first one is for the railway industry to develop a coherent policy and process for establishing when tactile surfaces need to be provided.Ìý The second one is to then come up with a time bound programme for installing those tactile surfaces.Ìý And the third was to develop a means for reducing the risk to visually impaired people in the meantime.Ìý So, where stations hadn’t yet had tactile surfaces installed to come up with some alternative interim mitigation measures.

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White

Can I ask you what the regulator’s timescale on this is?Ìý Especially the issue of tactile markings on all stations – how soon do you think this should be done?

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Davies

So, initially, for the highest priority locations we’ve had information from Network Rail and agreed with them that they will complete those installations by April this year.Ìý So that process has been ongoing for the last year and is almost complete for the highest priority locations.Ìý

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White

What about the rest?

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Davies

For the rest, so, at the moment, the end date is at the end of, what’s called, the next control period which is in 2029.Ìý Now that is not a target, that is the absolute sort of end stop, if you like.Ìý And we know that some of the Network Rail regions have committed to us that they will have completed this work quite a lot earlier than that, for example, 2024-25.Ìý And we will continue to work with Network Rail to get those timescales reduced as much as possible for us and for Network Rail to install them.

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White

Chris Davies of the Office of Road and Rail.

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Well, Allan Spence is Head of Public and Passenger Safety at Network Rail and I’ve been speaking to him.Ìý I suggested that the regulator is concerned with what they’ve described as a lack of engagement from passenger groups, including those representing visually impaired people.Ìý I asked him what Network Rail had been doing to address this.

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Spence

Network Rail’s focus, in terms of learning the lessons and making sure we really adapt the network, has been very much about what we can do to make the platforms safer themselves.Ìý We only operate the 20 largest stations in the country, we have temporary mitigation in place at the few of those that don’t have tactile surfaces.Ìý The rest of our focus has absolutely been on having a programme in place to accelerate getting tactile surfaces fitted at the edge of every single one of the platforms on the mainline railway.

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White

Now to do that you’re going to need money.Ìý Are you expecting any additional funding from the Department for Transport to reach this potential target, which is being mentioned, of ’24-’25 as opposed to ’29, which many people thought was ridiculous and far too far away?

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Spence

That was before we had a chance really to work out exactly what needed to be done.Ìý What we have done now is we’ve got a much better handle on where we need to focus, we’ve prioritised all of those stations and, as you’re aware, we had an initial sum of £10 million allocated by the department which we are busy spending right now.Ìý So, there’s the top priority stations are being fitted now and as you’ll have seen in correspondence from the Department for Transport, they have confirmed that additional funding will be made available to complete the job.

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White

Do you know when?

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Spence

We know that that will be available by the time we need it.Ìý So, we’re working at the moment with the existing £10 million and there are some significant bits of progress being made along the way.Ìý I’ve got the precise dates when we’ll have finished some really busier stations like Waterloo and Clapham Junction.Ìý So, we’re getting on and dealing with those high priority stations and we are funded to do the work that we’ve got in the plan so far.

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White

But of course, Mr Gervais’ accident was on a smaller station, well outside London and, of course, the majority of people don’t live in London at all.Ìý What people are looking for is can all the stations be safe by 2025?

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Spence

I can’t be absolutely certain with that date.Ìý I have a number of dates with different regions.Ìý But it’s right that we prioritise that work.Ìý And so, you say not everybody lives in London but a great many people do visit London and hence why we’re focusing on those where we get the best risk reduction earliest on in our programme.Ìý Some of the current plans do roll out a little bit further.Ìý It’s much shorter than it was in our initial estimate of 2029 but, realistically, I can’t say to you everything will be fixed by April ’25.

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White

So, in the meantime, can you just explain a bit more about the temporary safety measures being put in place until these works are finished because last time we spoke to you we asked if it was possible, for instance, to install other forms of non-concrete tactile paving, which would be cheaper and quicker – can that happen?

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Spence

Yes it can and that’s a solution we’re using.Ìý So, those solutions, which I broadly describe as glued on solutions, they stick on top of the existing surface, are what we are using for some of the improvements we’re making.Ìý There is a limitation though.Ìý The glues which we use to make sure that they’re firmly fixed down can’t be used at extremely low temperatures.Ìý So, now we’re out of the depths of winter, we’re able to really motor with installing those glued on solutions.

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White

And, in fact, I know there are beginning to be warnings for people about stations without the tactile paving because I’ve heard, in fact we can hear them now.

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Station Announcement

Please be aware that some platforms at this station have no or only partial tactile paving on the platform edge.

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White

That clearly is something that will help.Ìý Allan, do stay with us because, of course, another element of safety for visually impaired people and other people who have disabilities is the assistance that they should be able to rely on when catching or transferring between trains.Ìý Well despite a major training programme, completed last year for those giving such assistance, problems are still occurring too often and we’re hearing about them.Ìý Listener, Carys Hall, got in touch with us to tell us about several problems she’s faced, the latest of them only a few days ago.

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Hall

I was travelling from Chichester to Coventry.Ìý I got off the train myself and was waiting on a platform at Coventry Station and it appeared that no assistance had actually come to support me.Ìý So, I was quite disorientated, don’t know my way around the station at all.

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White

What should happen in these cases for those people who don’t know how this system works?

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Hall

Usually, I would assume that someone would help me off of the train.Ìý If you’ve got a connection to take, they take you on to your next train and if you’re stopping there they’ll either take you to the main entrance if you’re meeting a family member of they’ll take you to a taxi.

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White

What was the final outcome of the situation at Coventry?

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Hall

My nan actually had to come and get me herself.Ìý So, not only did they leave me stranded on the platform feeling quite vulnerable and unsafe, they made my severely disabled nan come and collect me herself.Ìý When we got to Coventry customer services office, and basically what they said to me was – Did you book?Ìý And I said – Yes, I did book, I’ve got a reference number here.Ìý And they said – Well, it’s not our fault, it’s the fault of the platform staff.Ìý There was no genuine apology.

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White

Although you have heard since I believe from…?

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Hall

From Avanti, Avanti West Coast, yes.Ìý So, they have assured me that this doesn’t happen often, which, to tell you the truth, I disagree with that statement.Ìý However, they’ve been quite professional and they did say that they will try and compensate me.Ìý I haven’t heard anything yet since, so it’s all very open ended.

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White

Now people will say well yeah but these things can happen every now and again but this isn’t – for you it’s not really been every now and again, has it?

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Hall

No, so I was again travelling from Coventry, this time, back home and my connection was leaving from Birmingham New Street.Ìý So, I got myself off the train, no one had come to me, fortunately, I was able to flag down two women that had actually been travelling on my train and they tried to help me on to a connection but it was the wrong connection, so I kind of told the guard on board the train this has happened, she got in touch with Birmingham New Street and said can you help this young lady by booking her a taxi from Cheltenham and they refused, they said it wasn’t out fault.

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White

Can I just ask you about the overall effect of this on you and your confidence to travel?

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Hall

So, fortunately, I am quite a confident person and a confident traveller because I’ve been travelling for about four or five years now but it does fill me with a lot of anxiety even still.Ìý I have to get around on a train, it’s my only real way of getting around the country and I’m entitled to that as an independent woman.Ìý However, when I book these journeys I get a sense of dread thinking – is this going to be the day where something goes wrong and not only does something go wrong but something goes terribly wrong and there’s going to be an accident and I’m going to be stranded and goodness knows what can happen to me.

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White

That’s Carys Hall.Ìý

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Well Avanti West Coast, who are the managing operators of Coventry Station, told us:

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Statement

Whilst a member of our team was on the platform to meet the train, a breakdown in communication meant that they were unable to find Carys but did return immediately once made aware.Ìý This situation highlights the need to make further improvements to passenger assistance right across the industry.Ìý We would like to apologise again to both Carys and her grandmother for what happened and our frontline teams have all had extensive disability awareness training but it’s clear that on this occasion we could and should have done better.

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White
Well, Allan Spence of Network Rail is still with us and has been listening to that.Ìý As Carys mentioned, this has happened on more than one occasion, including at Birmingham New Street, which is a station operated by Network Rail.Ìý What do you say to what happened to Carys?

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Spence

I can only offer both personal and apologies on behalf of the company.Ìý Nobody should have that kind of uncertainty and worry in using the railway, so I’m very sorry.Ìý We have done a huge amount, as your statement from Avanti, to equip those who provide our passenger assistance service with the right skills, the right awareness.Ìý So, I can’t excuse the service that Carys has received and her feedback helps us to continue to improve the app and improve the service.

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White

I guess what is concerning, though, is that we were told last year on this programme that there was a major training operation going for people who actually did this kind of work and that all the train operators were involved in that and that would be concluded by the end of the year – 2021.Ìý So, that’s why it’s concerning that here we are in 2022 and these things are still happening.

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Spence

And I agree, it’s not good enough, if that’s the way that Carys is being treated when she needs support from the passenger assist teams.Ìý The Network Rail team, who provide that service in our managed stations, such as in Birmingham New Street or others around the country, are specifically trained and are dedicated service providers for the people who use those stations.Ìý

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White

That was Allan Spence of Network Rail.

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Another subject we’ve tried to keep in the public eye is a system to enable blind and partially sighted people to take lateral flow tests for covid independently.Ìý And ironically, this seems to have become possible for some people at least at exactly the moment that the government has announced its living with covid plan, which outlines a significant downgrading of the importance of such tests, including no longer making them free of charge from 1st April.

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Well, despite this, the UK Health Security Agency has joined forces with the Be My Eyes app to make lateral flow tests more accessible for partially sighted people.Ìý We’ve repeatedly been inviting the agency on to the programme since early January, to talk about their plans.Ìý We’re still being told that no one from the agency is willing to talk to us.Ìý So, instead we’ve turned to Be My Eyes, who help blind and partially sighted people with daily tasks by connecting them by video call with sighted volunteers.Ìý We’ll be speaking to Will Butler, from Be My Eyes in a moment but first, someone who’s actually tried it out and was involved in the research.Ìý Matt Cliff explained to me how the process worked.

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Cliff

It’s effectively like a video call to a healthcare professional.Ìý So, you go through the process of doing the test and with support with that visual feedback and instruction and then 15 minutes later they’ll call back and they will read the result to me.Ìý All of my previous experience of both PCR and LFT tests have all been with support.Ìý I actually didn’t know how the process worked because I can’t see enough to do it.

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White

And, of course, you’re still getting support basically, so why is this so much better than, as it were, having to do it yourself?

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Cliff

I think the important thing to remember is I’m fortunate enough that I’ve got some support at home.Ìý There’s a huge proportion of people who are visually impaired that don’t have that support around.Ìý And actually, it’s nice to be independent, it’s nice to do these things for yourself.

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White

And I understand that you have had to test yourself quite regularly.Ìý I mean has this service enabled you to do it more independently, as you’ve got used to the process?

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Cliff

Absolutely.Ìý So much more independent because I was completely dependent previously, this is something I can do without the need of having to wait for someone else to come home.Ìý I think the service would help people with a range, a full spectrum of visual impairments.

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White

Matt Cliff there.Ìý

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Well, Will Butler is the Chief Experience Officer of Be My Eyes, he’s based in California and he joins us.Ìý Will, how did you get involved with this?

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Butler

Oh gosh, we’ve been communicating with the NHS since early in the pandemic.Ìý Be My Eyes is a task-oriented app, right, so the service that’s being provided is entirely scoped and designed by the folks at NHS who figured out exactly what service they want – need to deliver on the app.Ìý And Be My Eyes doesn’t advise in the process or tell them exactly how to help, it’s between the provider and the individual.

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White

But does it surprise you actually that it has taken so long?Ìý To be fair, we’ve had covid with us now for two years, sadly, and we’ve only really just got this off the ground.Ìý Why do you think it’s taken so long?

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Butler

Things take a long time.Ìý When you’re working with big numbers.Ìý Unfortunately, accessibility is often deprioritised across the board, whether you’re talking to private companies, or governments but the UK is leading the way here, we don’t have any other government entities or any other major national programmes providing this type of support in other countries and that’s a problem.Ìý We’ve got some great specialised help providers in the United States who are providing support with covid testing but they’re private companies.

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White

It’s sometimes being said and we’ve had it said to us by some organisations, that this can’t really be done by totally blind people.Ìý And yet the contributor we’ve had today, whose sight is very poor, feels that actually a totally blind person could use it.Ìý Would you agree with that?

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Butler

Yeah, I mean we’re bridging a gap, unfortunately, and the same goes for so many of the experiences that folks use Be My Eyes for.Ìý It does require another human set of eyes to accomplish whatever the task is.Ìý And it’s our hope that any feedback about where the human needed to be in the loop to add the eyesight in there, that that feedback is delivered to the folks who are designing these products, so that they can make better products the next time around.

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White

Will Butler, thank you very much indeed.

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And that’s it for today.Ìý To share your comments and experiences you can email intouch@bbc.co.uk, you can leave your voice messages on 0161 8361338.Ìý From me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio managers Sharon Hughes and Carwyn Griffiths, goodbye.

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