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IN TOUCH -ÌýBlind Man at the Forefront of Science

TX:Ìý 05.03.2019Ìý 2040-2100

PRESENTER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý PETER WHITE

PRODUCER:Ìý ÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌýÌý LEE KUMUTAT

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White

Good evening.Ìý Tonight, optimism about opportunities – the visually impaired scientist who’s hit the news and who believes the future could be brighter for those who want to follow him into science.Ìý And should blind actors always get first go when it comes to playing blind roles?

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Clip

Al Pacino driving a car in Scent of a Woman was a sighted man driving a car but you believe he’s blind for the film, he’s not a blind man driving a Porsche.

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White

And the accidental athlete.

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Congratulations, you’ve been successful.Ìý We can confirm that you will have a place to run in the New York City Marathon this November.

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White

More about that later.

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But first, perhaps it’s not that surprising that there are very few people who are visually impaired making a career for themselves in the sciences.Ìý The reliance on visual information, which can be slow to be made accessible; the use of visual concepts that can be difficult to convey to people like me, who’ve never been able to see and the almost inevitable use of graphs and charts that are not only difficult to interpret by touch but hard to produce.Ìý All those things can put people off.Ìý But a couple of weeks ago, a story hit the headlines about a potential new way of diagnosing Sepsis, a complicated form of infection which is responsible for over 50,000 deaths in the UK annually.Ìý This development was widely covered.

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News clips

It’s estimated that around 52,000 people die in this country every year from Sepsis, a life-threatening condition triggered by infection…

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A new low-cost test for an early diagnosis of Sepsis, that has been developed by researchers at the University of Strathclyde, could save thousands of lives…

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Now it’s called the silent killer, it’s estimated that every four hours someone in Scotland will die as a result of Sepsis…

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White

What wasn’t in the news though was the fact that the lead researcher, Dr Damion Corrigan, from Strathclyde University, is himself visually impaired.Ìý Damion has Marfan’s syndrome, that’s a condition characterised by very long slender limbs – Damion is seven feet tall – and it can affect the eyes.Ìý It’s so rare that we hear about a visually impaired person involved in the forefront of science that we wanted to talk to him.Ìý So, what had captured Damion Corrigan’s interest in science in the first place?

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Corrigan

So, I attended a school in Worcester, a school for blind and partially sighted children, and my ambition as a youngster was to become a doctor, an actual medical doctor, and around the time I was looking into this it became apparent that it wasn’t really a suitable career for someone with a visual impairment.Ìý And I was very interested in science, I’m visually impaired but I have a good level of sight and so I decided to take the plunge and apply to university to study science.Ìý It was more of a backup for not being able to do medicine.

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White

So, how did you decide what to do, how difficult was it to take the path you’ve taken?

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Corrigan

The area where I struggled the most was probably as an undergraduate.Ìý I was studying cell biology, which is quite a practical subject, and I probably have to be honest and say – I mean this was 20 years ago now, so things have really moved on but in those days, you were given a handbook, it was in one size of print and you were just sort of left to get on with it.Ìý But then once I was able to find a PhD, so I was able to find a PhD project and a university that would take me, I was then able to work at my own pace and to adjust my working environment so that I could work quite happily in it.

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White

So, in terms of actually getting a job and getting research opportunities what effect did your loss of vision, what effect did that have?

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Corrigan

I would say that actually I had one spell, after being an undergrad and then looking to get a PhD, where I started to apply and I did put on my CV that I was visually impaired and again this was a long time ago, but I didn’t get many interviews and only started to get interviews once I removed that from my CV.Ìý And sort of again in earlier years, as I was establishing myself, I sort of kept quiet about it.Ìý

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White

Are there any compensations in science and in the fields that you’ve gone into, are there any senses in which you perhaps have learned to do things that are useful?

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Corrigan

Well I think, yeah, with my field I’d say that one thing is that we work with very small sensors that are made in a clean room and they’re in fact so small that no one can see them.Ìý And the sort of sensors we make and we attach DNA to a very small surface, it’s really actually in your imagination.Ìý And when people talk about say improving a sensor it is a very conceptual thing, you think well if we change this DNA molecule for this DNA molecule or we use something that’s a different length to another molecule, it’s really sort of imaginative.Ìý So, then, you can go to the lab and test those out – those ideas.Ìý But the sort of lab work I do isn’t – I wouldn’t say is as challenging as others, I would say that being an organic chemist and working with glass flasks and high temperatures, and things like that, that is quite a challenge.

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White

Now I’m delighted that you’re talking to us but in the past, you have kept your visual impairment out of the public eye, I mean why did you feel that was necessary?

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Corrigan

I think science is ultimately a competitive endeavour and I sort of wanted to keep that perhaps to myself for the reasons that say perhaps writing a grant of something or a paper, it might sort of seem strange it coming from a visually impaired scientist.Ìý But I’d say that as I’ve established myself and become aware that there aren’t many visually impaired people in science, it’s probably quite important to speak up for not just visually impaired people but disabled people trying to work in the STEM subjects. ÌýSo, STEM is science, technology, engineering and mathematics.

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White

So, for younger visually impaired people, perhaps listening to this and thinking science is something I would like to do, what do you think are the perhaps the best areas where this opening up is likely to benefit visually impaired people?

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Corrigan

Science labs are now producing vast amounts of data, more than they really know how to handle, so people who are interested computing or mathematically orientated, who might be visually impaired, who might not feel comfortable doing lab work, there are opportunities in bioinformatics, where people would be handling large data sets, perhaps looking at the sequencing of DNA or the structures of proteins and molecules, artificial intelligence and machine learning.Ìý And these are technologies that could potentially revolutionise the way we live.Ìý Another area actually which might be interesting to people is 3D printing.Ìý And 3D printing allows you to print almost any structure you want and there are new materials being used all the time in 3D printing.Ìý So, initially it was polymers and plastics and now people are looking at new printing inks such as ceramics.Ìý And this leads to a very tactile product that you can print, so again in a computer program you can design an object and then the printer can print that out.Ìý And then you can use that object in the lab, so we often 3D print any holders that we might need or chips or objects that we want to test.Ìý And so, there are lots of opportunities, I think, for people who are able to explore them.

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White

Dr Damion Corrigan.

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And there’s another select band of visually impaired professionals who reckon that with a bit more effort from some of their colleagues their opportunities for work could be greatly enhanced.

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When blindness is portrayed in film, theatre or on television shouldn’t that part be given, wherever possible, to actors who are themselves blind or partially sighted?Ìý It’s an argument which has been going on ever since the disability movement began to campaign for rights.Ìý But is it a rights issue?Ìý Is it about people who’d play the parts best or just about providing opportunities?Ìý And what about the rights of directors in a commercial world where films and plays have to make money?

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Stand-up comedian, Chris McCausland, wrote an article in response to the controversy surrounding non-disabled actor Bryan Cranston taking the role of a disabled character in his new film The Upside.Ìý Well we brought Chris together with visually impaired actor Chloe Clarke, who co-founded disability led theatre company Elbow Room.Ìý We first invited Chris to set out his stall.

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McCausland

Bryan Cranston, he’s got 40 years’ experience, he’s got the household name of his success in Breaking Bad.Ìý He playing this part of a disabled man in a wheelchair is a far greater appeal to audiences and producers and the people making the film, the people going to watch the film, than somebody who might be an actor in a wheelchair that might have maybe found three different opportunities in the last 10 years and nobody knows who they are.

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White

So, Chloe, what’s your reaction to this, that it just isn’t – it might be a lovely idea but it isn’t practical in the real world?

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Clarke

So, I don’t think the argument is necessarily that a disabled role should go to any disabled person and it should be absolutely irrespective of standard or range or experience or capability in terms of acting.Ìý But what we want to see is more opportunities go to disabled actors because there are, in actual fact, a lot of disabled actors out there who are very talented, who are trained, who do have a wealth of experience and are capable of playing the character, first and foremost, but also happen to have the same impairment as the character, therefore can truthfully and authentically represent that group of people.

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White

Chris McCausland, you have suggested that that perhaps blind people can’t necessarily play these parts as well, not just because they haven’t had the experience but I think you’ve suggested that there may be something simply about being blind that may not make it possible for you to play the part as well as a sighted person.

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McCausland

The logistics of moving around a set and playing, for example – I mean if you think – just take yourself back to the ‘80s and See No Evil, Hear No Evil, if you take the part of Richard Pryor, who was a blind man in that film, there were so many action scenes and comedy setups in that film that required a sighted actor to pretend to be blind, otherwise they would have been logistically not really possible for that actor to do.Ìý Al Pacino driving a car in Scent of a Woman was a sighted man driving a car but you believe he’s blind for the film, he’s not a blind man driving a Porsche.

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White

Chloe Clarke?

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Clarke

I think there are a lot of actors out there who don’t do their own stunts and there’s CGI and all sorts of other things that allow… We have a TV show on the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ called Strike and that features a non-disabled guy and they’ve CGI’s a prosthetic leg in.Ìý And there are all sorts of different things that can be done to aid all sorts of scenes that you were seeing aren’t possible, that could be possible with a bit more creative thinking.Ìý Or you alter those scenes slightly to adapt them to somebody’s access requirements.Ìý Or a lot of what you’re saying about manoeuvring around a set and things like that, those are all barriers that are enforced by non-disabled people.Ìý And if we address those barriers, rather than just simply saying – oh well, we shouldn’t play those roles then – I think that’s more important and more progressive than just going – well, let’s be realistic about this, at the end of the day there are just things we can’t do.Ìý

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White

But would you say that actually a blind actor would be, by definition, more authentic in that role?

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Clarke

The way it stands, realistically, at the end of the day, you cast for a blind role and the majority of casting directors their go to thing isn’t to go – right then, we need to find visually impaired actors for that role first and foremost and if none of those guys fit the role adequately then we’ll cast wider.Ìý But they don’t think that way.

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White

But you do need names, you need faces that are recognised, that’s inevitable isn’t it, that that has got to be a director’s main priority?

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Clarke

I totally understand that sort of financial and business viability argument but, for example, I think it is an actor’s responsibility to recognise that they have a privilege and a platform, that they could potentially relinquish in order for our stories to be told more truthfully and our voices to be heard.Ìý There are a lot of stories being told about us but not by us.

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White

It is true, Chris, that blind actors will only be able to gain that experience, you say they lack, if they’re given those opportunities, isn’t it the responsibility of the profession, as a whole, to give them those chances?

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McCausland

Yeah and it’s the responsibility of writers, casting agents, producers to all collectively consider.Ìý I mean, for example, if there is a role where disability doesn’t affect the story in the slightest, maybe when they’re auditioning for that role in a TV show they could say this role is open to all races and all disabilities because then it would welcome people to come and audition for that role and it wouldn’t affect the story.Ìý As I say, the teacher in the TV show could be in a wheelchair, the lawyer could be blind.

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White

Isn’t the real problem actually a lack of suitable parts to play, which brings you back to a lack of writers actually creating these kinds of roles?Ìý Chloe?

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Clarke

Yes, our stories aren’t authentic because we absolutely desperately need more disabled writers, more disabled directors, more disabled producers and casting directors to infiltrate all levels of the entertainment industry so that our stories are told.Ìý But as Chris says, exactly, we need a lot more incidental casting.Ìý The story doesn’t need to revolve around disability, you could – if you’re going to truthfully represent society in all its diversity, you’d need to be casting disabled actors in any role and it could be anything, it’s irrespective of disability.

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White

It seems as if you may have reached a point of agreement here but final word on that Chris?

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McCausland

I agree, when people think we’re going to do something about disability it becomes the be all and end all, the crux of the whole story and we need it to be – oh look, there’s a disabled bloke and it hasn’t been mentioned.Ìý That’s what we need to get to, where a certain percentage of people on the TV have got a disability of some note really without it being the be all and end all of it.

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White

Chris McCausland and Chloe Clarke.Ìý Your views welcome, of course.

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And now just a few news headlines for you and I’ve been joined by Lee Kumutat.

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Kumutat

First Pete, you may well have heard today an announcement from the Department for Work and Pensions that people over 65, who are receiving PIPs, or Personal Independence Payments as we all know and love them, will no longer have to present themselves for periodic reassessments of their circumstances.Ìý So, what will this mean to visually impaired people, an increasing number of whom receive PIPs?Ìý Well, at the moment, not as much as you might think, is the answer.Ìý Only people who were under 65 in April 2013 have been transferred from the previous benefit – Disability Living Allowance – on to PIPs.Ìý Although, of course, as time goes on, an increasing number of those won’t have repeated reassessments when they pass their 65th birthday.Ìý People who have lost and qualify for benefits after 65 will be receiving something else – Attendance Allowance.Ìý The debate about whether people who have a permanent eye condition which is unlikely to change should keep needing to be reassessed has not yet been settled.

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White

A television programme you might like to catch.Ìý It’s called Travelling Blind and it features Amar Latif.Ìý Now Amar founded Traveleyes, that’s a company which offers a range of holidays to blind people who want travel with the help of sighted companions.Ìý Amar travels across Turkey for the programme with comedian Sarah Pascoe, demonstrating how there’s more to travel than gazing at the sights.Ìý Travelling Blind, it’s called, it’s on ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ 2 at eight this coming Thursday evening.

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Kumutat

And it’s amazing what researching for this programme can lead to.Ìý A few weeks ago, after a listener complained that guide runners assisting blind entrants in the London Marathon weren’t getting enough recognition, I commissioned one of our reporters, Dave Williams, to find out what other marathons around the world were doing.Ìý Well, how was I supposed to know?

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Williams

In New York, for example, they have a very famous New York City Marathon every November, so I popped on to their website and wanted to find out what the guide runner policy was there and I found the application form.Ìý Well, I have to declare a bit of an interest, I’ve started running relatively recently – I mean go back to August and I couldn’t run a bath – and I started filling in the form, and I don’t really know what possessed me, it was a bit late at night, I might have been in the pub.Ìý And I thought is the process for applying for a marathon accessible and it is, it is.Ìý And I filled this in and you go into a ballot and then on Friday morning I woke up to an email saying congratulations, you’ve been successful, we can confirm that you will have a place to run in the New York City Marathon this November.Ìý So, I’ve got to figure out how I run 26 miles in the next eight months.

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White

Have you ever run a marathon before?

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Williams

No, no I haven’t even run half a marathon.Ìý I can run about 10 miles.Ìý And I’m quite proud of that.Ìý I showed this email to my guide runner and said – Well, what do we do?Ìý And she wrote back and said – Well, I’m in if you are. ÌýSo, no pressure then!

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White

So, is she going to get a medal and a credit?

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Williams

Well, the official position at the moment is that she won’t but I’m hoping the fact that London have changed policy on this, that New York might at least look at it and I have written to them, I’ve yet to get a reply and obviously I’ll keep everybody posted.

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White

Well, we’ll be watching Dave’s progress with some trepidation.Ìý

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Do let us know what you think about anything you’ve heard in the programme.Ìý You can call In Touch directly and leave a voice message for us.Ìý The number to do that is 0161 836 1338.Ìý And if you’d like us to get back to you do please leave us a number.Ìý We’ll do our best.Ìý You can still email intouch@bbc.co.uk or click on contact us on our website, that’s .Ìý From where you can also download tonight’s and previous editions of the programme.

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That’s it, from me, Peter White, producer and newscaster Lee Kumutat and the team, goodbye.