成人快手

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IN TOUCH - Changing jobs, Washington State鈥檚 blind governor

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TX:听 04.07.2017听 2040-2100

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PRESENTER:听 听听听听听听听听 PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:听 听听听听听听听听听听 LEE KUMUTAT

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White

Good evening. 听Tonight:听 He鈥檚 been dubbed one of America鈥檚 men to watch. Cyrus Habib is already well launched on a political career and he鈥檒l be explaining how a combination of modern technology and Chutzpah is helping his climb. 听And by way of contrast, we also hear how in the current UK employment climate for visually-impaired people, staying in your comfort zone can hold back your career.

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Clip

The concept of starting at a new office and learning a new office and learning all the new systems, it鈥檚 just a daunting prospect.

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White

More about should I stay or should I go, later in the programme.

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But first, blindness and partial sight needn鈥檛 be a bar to political success. 听David Blunkett is the obvious UK example of course and just a few weeks ago, Marsha De Cordova reflected on this programme on her surprise victory in the General Election, and what effect her visual impairment might have on the way she tackles the job of MP. 听Well she could do worse than have a chat with Cyrus Habib. 听Totally blind and still only 35, he鈥檚 just been appointed as Washington State鈥檚 Lieutenant Governor 鈥� having already spent more than five years, first in the state House of Representatives, then in its Senate. 听He identified himself as a high-flyer when he became editor of the prestigious Yale Law Journal.听 But American politics is a cut-throat business.听 Well I鈥檝e been talking to Cyrus Habib about his steady rise and about how he tackles the nitty gritty job of campaigning.

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Habib

In my first race in the state of House of Representatives I personally knocked on over 7,000 doors and my campaign, when you factor in staff and volunteers, did about three times that.听 So you know I think that that can be a little bit more challenging.听 But I would say, as silly as it sounds, the biggest challenge was just making sure that people actually knew that the reason I was wearing sunglasses was because I鈥檓 blind and not just because I was trying to look cool.听 And it may sound like it wouldn鈥檛 be an issue or a problem but when people are just looking at a photo they don鈥檛 really understand 鈥� why would you be wearing a suit and tie and then wearing sunglasses.听 And so the very delicate balance we had to strike was informing people that I鈥檓 blind, both so that they wouldn鈥檛 draw the wrong conclusion and also so as to connect my lived experience with the values that I hold.听 But then not going so far as to reducing me to a stereotype or a disability or even worse seeking to 鈥� looking like we鈥檙e pandering or trying to get sympathy.

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White

And you have to get them to believe that you can do the best for them don鈥檛 you?

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Habib

Yeah I definitely think you want to convey strength and skill and competence and preparedness and all of those things that voters want to see but at the same time you want to demonstrate that you understand struggle.听 That鈥檚 not everyone鈥檚 political message but it鈥檚 really important for me because it鈥檚 such a critical part of how I came to my political philosophy and my approach towards the role of government.听 And so you鈥檙e absolutely right that you want to describe 鈥� look I understand whether you鈥檙e facing economic hardship or a disability or a racial or ethnic barrier, I understand what it鈥檚 like to be excluded or counted out or limited by society and I understand what it鈥檚 like to fight to be included again.听 And so that鈥檚 a story that we definitely wanted to tell while also being very clear that there鈥檚 no risk of me not being able to do the job.听 And so one of the ways in which we did that was by using this slogan in my TV commercial, which I was a little bit uncertain about at first, which was to say that I went from Braille to Yale.听 And to me that phrase captures both dynamics, right, because you鈥檙e then saying well when you say Braille people understand that you鈥檝e had to learn to do things differently, that you鈥檝e had to be creative and work hard but when you say Yale, because Yale has a brand in our country and globally of excellence and competence, you鈥檝e kind of also set people鈥檚 mind at ease that you鈥檙e going to be able to do the job.听 And I was a little bit wary of doing that because I 鈥� you know I didn鈥檛 want to take on all the kind of baggage of elitism that might come with the name Yale.听 But I was told by advisors, and I think this was very good advice, that in your case it鈥檚 important to do that so people don鈥檛 think 鈥� oh well, okay he鈥檚 blind, I feel sorry for him, good for him that he got over that but we really need someone who can be prepared to step in in the event of an emergency and you know I don鈥檛 know that sympathy is the metric we want to use, we need to make sure that someone鈥檚 really, really qualified.听 So that phrase, I think, really gets at that balance.

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White

It鈥檚 an interesting one because I mean it鈥檚 all very well to take on these challenges but how hard do you think it will actually be for you to do the job?听 I mean you were talking about having to actually preside at the Senate, for example, I think you鈥檝e got some pretty flash equipment there to help you do that, haven鈥檛 you?

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Habib

What we have installed are touch screens on every senators鈥� desk, there are 49 senators, and so when they want to speak rather than simply standing up and saying Mr President to be recognised they now stand up and say Mr President and touch this screen on their desk.听 That sends their name up to a computer that I have in front of me, with a Braille display on it, and then all the names of the senators who want to speak are displayed in Braille in real time right in front of me so that I can by touch know who it is who鈥檚 requested to speak.

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I always knew while I was campaigning that we would find a way to do it but this was really, really impressive, even to me, someone who has a deep faith in the ability of adaptive technology to level the playing field, this was really, really exciting for me and it showed me that when we combine hard work and creativity, and particularly when we put our money where our mouth is and provide resources, we can achieve nearly anything, as people with disabilities, that anyone else can and our society can make nearly anything possible.听 What I often do is when I describe that I say look now imagine a world in which every kid in every classroom were given the type of personalised attention and care to accommodate their abilities and disabilities as I was given as Lieutenant Governor, you would see people truly living up to their full potential.

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White

There is another debate that goes on in both our countries which is about the extent to which special provision ought to be made, and that鈥檚 certainly true in the area of visual impairment.听 I know 鈥� and one of the things you did is you led the fight, I think, to try to make US money accessible to blind people because American notes are the same size, which is one of the most obvious ways to make them different.听 That鈥檚 still the case, isn鈥檛 it, it鈥檚 not a battle that鈥檚 been completely won?

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Habib

Well it has in the sense that we just last year it was announced that the next bill that comes out will be tactile and distinguishable, so they should be from now on.听 With the economic challenges that we were having there weren鈥檛 new bills authorised until just recently.

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White

But there was some fight, I believe, on the part of some blind people saying we don鈥檛 need to be babied in this way, that we can actually cope with it.

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Habib

Yeah but I think that actually had more to do, honestly, with in-fighting among different blind advocacy organisations.听 This was not the first time that this had happened that one organisation takes on a particular battle and then the other one will say no, no that鈥檚 not really an issue.听 My intervention on that particular topic was to talk about and ultimately make a legal argument around the obstacles faced by blind workers.听 It鈥檚 not just a question of convenience for the blind customer who needs to be able to distinguish a five dollar bill from a 10 dollar bill but think about the challenge to somebody who鈥檚 trying to work at an entry level job which often requires the ability to denominate one bill from another.听 That then becomes virtually impossible because you have to ask others for help or now there鈥檚 software for smartphones that can do it but it鈥檚 not practical from an employment perspective.听 And so I think that that organisation that took the position you鈥檙e describing was being short sighted, for lack of a better term.

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White

Cyrus Habib.听 And you鈥檒l be able to hear a longer version of that interview later this year as part of Radio 4鈥檚 No Triumph, No Tragedy series.

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And we stay with employment.听 Mike Kelly鈥檚 at the other end of his career 鈥� he generated a big response from you a couple of weeks ago when he owned up to his fears about retirement. He wanted to broaden his horizons when he left work but he wondered if he had the skills and the confidence to try out new things.

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Kelly

In a way I feel that I am going to be starting all over again, having to learn new skills, new ways of doing things.听 I do have some things lined up to do.听 For instance Wendy, my wife, and I are National Trust members and I鈥檇 like to maybe do some work there, perhaps maybe even become a room advisor if that鈥檚 possible.听 I鈥檇 like to learn to cook, if that鈥檚 feasible, do the gardening, take up archery.听 There鈥檚 lots there, you know, it鈥檚 an open page really, it鈥檚 just knowing what鈥檚 possible and what鈥檚 not.

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White

Well many of you were keen to help. 听Duncan Bell, for example, he鈥檚 got some good news on becoming a room guide with the National Trust. 听He says: 鈥淚 submitted my application to be a room guide at the end of March. 听Had an interview in mid-May, and am now reading and learning the facts from the house guidebook prior to starting.鈥澨� He says:听 鈥淭he only rooms I can鈥檛 really work in are those that contain small but valuable items which people might be tempted to walk off with.鈥�

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And Glenys Hill, who鈥檚 a member of her local University of the 3rd Age spoke for many listeners who suggested Mike did the same thing. She says:

鈥淭here鈥檚 a book group, Tai chi, cake and bake, bridge, military history, classical music, science and technology 鈥� as well as monthly lunches at local pubs. We have members who are partially sighted and I don鈥檛 anticipate there being any issues for Mike.鈥�

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Well Mike Kelly鈥檚 story also chimed with listener Nick Adamson but for a different reason. Nick is only 35, not thinking about retirement yet, but for him, changing jobs throws up a similar set of challenges to Mike. 听Regular contributor Dave Williams found himself in a similar position a couple of years ago, so we brought them together.

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Dave.

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Williams

As a father and husband with a mortgage, I take my responsibilities seriously. Yet, a few years ago I began to think the unthinkable. 听What if I were to leave the security of my steady nine to five job and strike out on my own? 听Or, given the challenges facing blind people seeking employment, should I stay put? 听I went for it and I don鈥檛 regret it.

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Nick Adamson has been a senior software engineer working in the same company for 12 years. 听Such a long stint on the same job is unusual in his industry but Nick says he鈥檚 happy in his comfort zone and isn鈥檛 considering leaving. Well not yet.

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Nick is concerned that if he were to move jobs, it would be much more difficult for him as a blind person.

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Adamson

Particularly younger programmers, they move on quite quickly, in fact a lot do something called contracting, which is where you鈥檒l go and do a contract for six months, a year, a year and a half, and then you鈥檒l move on and it鈥檚 a great way of getting experience, it鈥檚 quite a good way of getting some financial backing behind you because contractors earn quite a bit.听 And then once they settle down then quite a lot of them go to permanent roles at that point.听

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The reason I鈥檝e been there is a. because I love the work, what we do is challenging, the work is quite interesting, the people that I work with are interesting, the products that we produce are fascinating, so there鈥檚 a huge element of that to it.听 But there are days where I think 鈥� oh, that was a rough day.听 And there are times where I think I鈥檓 on LinkedIn and I鈥檓 forever getting emails from recruiters going 鈥� would you like this job 鈥� and I鈥檓 going, no I think I鈥檓 happy where I am, I鈥檓 very comfortable and it鈥檚 very much a comfort zone.听 The concept of starting at a new office and learning a new office and learning all the new systems 鈥� the various intranets and how you put your timecard in and the training systems and new procedures and all that sort of stuff 鈥� it鈥檚 just a daunting prospect that just I think well I鈥檓 comfortable and I鈥檓 really happy where I am, why would I put myself through that.听 But a lot of that is because the additional things about learning the systems and learning the office is made so much more complicated by the fact of my visual impairment.

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Williams

Why are you on LinkedIn?

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Adamson

Why am I on LinkedIn?听 Because it鈥檚 a really good way of networking, it鈥檚 a really good way of finding out what your colleagues that you used to work with are up to and should the worst happen and that I have to go and find a new job then it鈥檚 probably quite a good way of doing it.听 There鈥檚 quite a pool of jobs that I would be able to apply for, given my current skillset and given the level of experience that I鈥檝e got.听 So the bits of getting the new job that I would be concerned about is a. once I get to the interview is making sure that I impress and I kind of hope the attitude that I bring and the experience that I can show would hopefully speak for itself in that sense.听 But then it鈥檚 the proving to my colleagues, I鈥檝e been where I am for a number of years, I鈥檝e worked with some of the same guys for quite a long time, they鈥檝e worked with me, they know that despite my dodgy eyes that I鈥檓 still a pretty good programmer, I can still pull together screens and visual elements, okay they may not be the most beautiful things in the world but they鈥檙e certainly functional and they know that I can be just 鈥� off you go, here鈥檚 this great lump of work, we鈥檒l see you in three months, get it done 鈥� they know that that鈥檚 something that they can leave with me and I can just get on with it.听 I would have to prove that to a whole new team and it鈥檚 not just one or two new starters, as it is now every so often that I鈥檇 have to prove that I鈥檓 just as good as a sighted guy.听 And maybe that鈥檚 more in my head than it is real but I think it probably is an element of truth that I would have to prove myself to a whole team and that I would have to go through the conversations that if someone鈥檚 saying 鈥� oh well we can鈥檛 give that bit to Nick because he can鈥檛 see to do it 鈥� or 鈥� we鈥檒l have to stick Nick on just doing the bits that work with sound or whatever, whatever it is the thing we鈥檙e doing, because that鈥檚 the bit he would be good at.听 And I鈥檇 have to prove myself and that is quite a daunting prospect.

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Williams

Do you feel a bit like some of your colleagues have moved on to bigger and better things and you think maybe you should have made a move at some point?

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Adamson

Absolutely, there鈥檚 guys that I鈥檝e seen that are now, you know, principal engineers, that started roughly the same time I did.听 There was a girl that I was at uni with, she goes to a number of different places doing conference talks and stuff and it鈥檚 all because of the fact that they鈥檝e moved on and they鈥檝e done stuff and they鈥檝e got more experiences, they鈥檝e worked in different environments.听 I鈥檝e only ever worked in one industry, I鈥檝e only ever worked in one environment and that I am conscious of and that possibly makes me less desirable as a candidate if I were to go and get a new job.听 On the other side of that, I鈥檓 clearly someone that will stick at a job, that will stay there for quite a long time and will stick to it.

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Williams

Do you worry that your CV isn鈥檛 sufficiently varied?

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Adamson

Oh yeah, yeah, hugely.听 Programming and technology moves on at such a pace that the skills that I graduated with uni, the skills that got me the job I would now say I鈥檓 pretty good at, I know the languages that I use very well but I don鈥檛 know some of the really modern languages.听 And maybe that鈥檚 something I need to do more in more spare time and I need to maybe get up to speed with them but if I鈥檓 not using it at work what鈥檚 my impetus to go and learn those languages, to learn that new technology?

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Williams

Do you think there are other blind people perhaps in that situation where they need to move on but it鈥檚 actually their blindness that is inhibiting them from changing jobs?

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Adamson

Absolutely.听 It would take more of the hardworking environment, more of rubbish jobs and bad day after bad day after bad day before a blind person would have to quit because you hear the statistics of how many people who are visually-impaired and blind that are out of work and how hard it is to get a job and if you mention on your CV that you鈥檙e blind forget any chance of getting an interview and all that sort of stuff.听 And you just think 鈥� it鈥檚 just so hard, the job market is so hard for someone who is visually-impaired and I鈥檓 very aware of how lucky I am that I have a job that I enjoy and that it鈥檚 something that I can go to work and I鈥檓 happy to do.听 And I鈥檓 very aware of how lucky I am and I do appreciate very much what I have.

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Williams

Would you be prepared to move for a job?

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Adamson

Yes, a change in job would almost certainly include a move of house and a changing of location for the family but that isn鈥檛 that unusual.

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Williams

But it is harder to move as a blind person, learning new routes in a new area, establishing new support networks and that sort of thing in a new area.

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Adamson

All those considerations would be something that you鈥檇 have to think about.

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White

Nick Adamson and Dave Williams. 听

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Responses from you are always welcome of course and you might like to pick up on another point made in that discussion 鈥� the challenges 鈥� let鈥檚 just put it that way 鈥� for visually-impaired people of moving house.听 We want your nightmare stories of course but we鈥檇 also like bright ideas of making it less daunting.听 You can call our Actionline on 0800 044 044 for 24 hours after the broadcast or email intouch@bbc.co.uk.听

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From me Peter White, producer Lee Kumutat, and the team, goodbye.

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