LIVE - Is it time for the world to talk to Hamas?
- 5 Jul 07, 05:07 PM
Hi, it's Peter Dobbie here. We're LIVE on air right now - click here to listen
A group of British parliamentarians think it is, and they're calling for international engagement with the Hamas movement, after it helped free the 成人快手's Alan Johnston in Gaza. The logic flows like this: Hamas played a "pivotal role" in ending Alan Johnston's detention, so, it should now join Palestinian reconciliation efforts. Fair enough ? What do you think ? You'll know that Hamas is boycotted by western powers because of its anti-Israeli stance. Plus this radical Islamist organisation has been engaged in a bitter power struggle with its secular nationalist rival Fatah, led by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. Does some of this come down to face-saving, or put another way can Isreal and America ever talk to Hamas ? Contact details as ever, at the end of this e-mail.
Moving on. What's the connection this weekend between Sydney, Hamburg, London, Tokyo, Johannesburg, Rio, and Shanghai ? Answer: they're all involved in Saturday's global Live Earth event - with many of the world's best known pop stars (Madonna, Duran Duran, The Beastie Boys to name but three), trying to highlight what we're doing to the planet. Will you be listening ? Will you be watching ? Or are you sick of the oversized egos, the posturing, the prancing, and yet more talk about carbon footprints ? Why do we have to feel so guilty because we use a dish-washer, or leave things on stand-by, or don't actually jog to work 4 days a week and leave the car at home ? Oh, and don't forget the music -- psst & b t w has the time now come for Madonna to keep most of her body covered up. I mean she is, well, "mature". Thoughts please ....
Also, on the show today: Zimbawbwe. Inflation running at 3700 %, and an economy -- by any western measure -- in melt-down. What's it like living with that ? Shops today have been ordered to ration supplies of basic goods, and huge crowds are packing supermarkets. How do you survive ? If you're in Zimbabwe call us, talk to the world.
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What I'd like to know is what all of the big pop stars are doing about reducing waste in their own professional lives. Will anyone address CD recycling, fliers and handbills blowing around city streets, unrecycled waste from concert venues or the massive amounts of energy used in giant stadiums to power piles of musical equipment? Will anyone have a green tour busses or stop flying to other countries for concerts or is there too much money to be made from not putting your money where your mouth is?
I'm a musician and I understand the importance of getting your message out, but at what cost?
On another note, I also work for a music venue so I'd like to see what the concert grounds look like after the crowds leave. If these are truly green events, the janitorial staff should be able to take the day off.
Oh jeez, I could keep typing forever on this.
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Yes, it's time to talk to Hamas. Israel and the wider world needs to realise that Hamas were an elected government, that they currently rule Gaza, and to continue to bully them and the Palestinians in Gaza is not going to serve the cause on either the Israeli or the Palestinian sides.
Maybe if Haniyeh delivers on his promise to free Gilad Shalit, Israel will talk to Hamas?
Live Earth: Yes, I'll be tuning in. I find it highly ironic though that these stars are jetting all around the world to these seven (six? Rio's has been 'suspended', I think) cities from where-ever they're based, to promote a greener environment. I'd hope and assume that they'll get their carbon footprint neutralised.
Zimbabwe will not survive with the Mugabe regime in power. Mugabe needs to see that he needs to step down in order for the country to progress and move forward.
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I think it would be suicidal to negotiate with Hamas.
The group that abducted Alan Johnston, the Army of Islam, were partners of the Hamas until recently. Everybody seems to have forgotten that! They were part of the three movements who attacked Israeli soldiers on the other side of the border and abducted caporal Gilad Shalit.
I do not think Hamas should be thanked and congratulated for having freed Alan Johnston. A journalist should never, never be abducted in the first place and a party which was elected and rules over a territory is just doing its job by freeing a kidnapped journalist.
Nothing more.
After the violence Hamas proved to be capable of with its own people, it would be pure madness to consider them as regular negotiating partners. On top of it, it would a stab in the back of Mahmoud Abbas, who is clearly the only one with whom one might hope to go forward one day in the ever more chimerical peace process.
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Only a decree or legal change to allow Rand, US Dollars or Euros to co-exist as legal tender with the about-to-crash Zimbabwe Dollar can save the Zimbabwe National Economy. And what will happen to those without the means to obtain such hard currencies? What is playing out is a game of hardball between Mugabe and the International Community, where neither side will budge an inch, and neither side cares one iota for the suffering of the poor, caught in the middle of this ugly game of real-politik.
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It has always been time to talk to Hamas but it is now a Golden oppoyunity to Skeptiics to reciprocate this move.
Yes by mediating in the release of Alan Jonston Hamas have proven that they are not as bad as the so called west paints them. By the way when some went calling for democraccy in Palestine is it not Hamas that the palestinians choose? so how can you talk peace in palestine without talking to their elected representatives?
By the way what is democracy?
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Hi WHYS!
Here we have a government, democratically elected, who has been strangled literally to death because Tel-Aviv and Washington didn't like it (or at least that's their claim). doesn't that sounds crazy. How on earth do they want to negotiate with palestinians if they keep saying that there is no partner. Hamas has accepted the Arab Peace Initiative and therefore has (implicitly) recognized Israel: The Israel of 1967, not the Apartheid State built on Palestinian land and who's putting Arabs under military regime. Arafat was a secular, he recognized Israel, he renounced "violence" (meaning mainly: legitimate resistance to occupation)... and what happened to him. he was besieged, bombarded, labeled terrorist and non-partner and was (probably) eventually killed. I hope tonight's program will reflect all the sides of this story
Hisham
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Hamas doesn't like Israel. Most of the world doesn't like Israel, either. So lets' talk. We should put aside Hamas' anti-Israel rhetoric and our own irrational blind support of anything Israeli and talk to them because they seem to want to change the status quo in their part of the world and engage the West. We can always stop talking but it takes two to tango.
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It's great to call attention to what we are doing to our planet but will anything change when everything is driven by the profit motive? No it won't.
No, I won't be watching or listening although I sympathize with the cause.
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It's hard to say whether or not we can talk with Hamas. It's obvious that most groups like Hamas have their own political agendas. It's possible that they might help us but it's impossible to know whether it's only for their own gain. I believe that in the case of many groups like this they will help only where it will help them to do so. I think they are just as likely to turn on us when it is more convienient for their agenda. I wish it were as simple as they helped us once they will help us again. However this world is not nor ever will be black and white and we must always choose our allies carefully, and with forsight.
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I thought we never should have stopped talking to Hamas, after all they are the legitimately elected government of the Palestinian people. Regarding their stance on Israel, I thought there official position was that they would consider recognising Israel once it had returned to the pre-1967 borders. Perhaps your programme could clarify this.
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Hamas should be congratulated for their efforts in aiding the release of Alan Johnston, but it would take more than this gesture to earn real credibility. Considering their history and actions in Gaza (against Israeli occupation) what makes anyone think they have reformed and this was not mere window dressing or a well choreographed stunt to garnish international praise?
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I haven't seen Madonna lately so I can't say if she should cover up or not. Is she getting fat? Chunky? Stout? I always liked her music but not her attitude.
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Although Hamas is considered by most nations of the world to be a terrorist organization, I do not see how we can achieve any progress in the Middle East if no dialogue takes place.
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Hamas absolutely refuses to recognize Israel and refuses to make peace with Israel. It would defeat their purpose, thus they aren't a partner for peace, and thus shouldn't be talked to. UN 242 calls for return of lands in exchange for recognition AND peace with Israel. Hamas will NEVER agree to this. So don't blame Israel for Hamas' actions. Hamas kills innocent civilians, is a proxy of Iran/Syria and is absolutely fundamentalist. To the lefties out there, everything you're in favor of, freedom of religion, gay rights, even drinking alcohol, would get you KILLED by Hamas. They are absolutely insane, hate-filled, and teach their young to hate. It isn't preconditions when Hamas would never even agree to them. A "truce" isn't the same as peace. Palestinians need to pick rational, sane leaders if they want peace. I'm not sure Palestinians want a state more than they want to destroy Israel.
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Let me add that I do NOT believe in negotiations with terrorists or terror organizations. However, I am merely stating that Hamas is indeed the current ruling party in the Palestinian Authority, and I do not believe that an isolationist policy concerning the Middle East would be progressive at this time and in this situation.
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Getting Hamas to recognize Israel is like getting The Taleban or Hamas to recognize same sex marriages. It ISN'T going to happen. You cannot make peace with religious zealots. Hamas in power means non stop war.
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NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
“Hamas played a pivotal role in Alan Johnston’s release.” For all we know they also played a role in his initial kidnapping and detention. It was 成人快手 and Alan Johnston who made the decision to put his life at risk to “tell the Palestinian story”, no one else’s. Now there are those who want to reward Hamas even though it is still regarded as a terrorist group by the EU and the US. Why? Because they helped 成人快手 get out of the jam it created for itself. But nothing has changed for those Hamas would attack, the Israelis, the US, Fatah and quite possibly Britain itself. Hamas hardly arranged for the release of Johnston because they are suddenly humanitarian boy scouts, this was right from the beginning a cheap political trick to sway public opinion and politics in the west. They play on the fears, hopes, and other emotions in the West like a virtuoso would play a violin. Will it work? Among some on the extreme left including some I think at 成人快手 it already has.
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Hamas is the democratically elected governing party of Palestine.
Why are we asking if we should talk to them? It should have been the policy from the start, but unfortunately the U.S. and Israel rejected their leadership from the start without giving them a chance to rule and ultimately condmened them to financial collapse, thus turning the two groups against one another. What is the difference between Abbas disoolving the parliament and a bloodless coup?
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I always support dialogue and suggest talking as a method of constuctive problem solving.
Regarding Alan I celebrated his independance day with a bit of Oregons finest beer yesterday.
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To the Labour MP:
Sure, Hamas was democratically elected. So was Hitler. Do you want to be the 21st century's Neville Chamberlain? Did you not learn from your past?
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I can't see how anyone can refuse to talk to Hamas; our whole shebang was said to "bring democracy" to other people. So they had a free vote and the people - who are the "demo" in democracy - wanted Hamas. So it is a democratically elected government. We talk to others even when we don't agree with them. There can never be a change, or an agreement, if we turn up our - not that clean - noses at them
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Getting Hamas to recognize Israel is like getting The Taleban or Hamas to recognize same sex marriages. It ISN'T going to happen. You cannot make peace with religious zealots. Hamas in power means non stop war.
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These questions of "should we talk to" this establishment or that one, is seemingly inept. Of course you should talk to your perceived threats. Could you imagine what would have happened if the US and Russia had stopped talking? We se what happened when the world stopped talking to Hitler and/ or the German people.
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And why are we supporting Israel as if they're the good guys? They have killed thousands of Palestinians, preside over apartheid-like conditions in the occupied territories, practice rigorous censorship--ask the man who revealed that they had atomic weapons they were hiding and was then thrown into prison for 20-odd years.
We forget that Israel must recognize the existence of Palestine. Golda Maier said Palestinians don't exist. Israel needs to return to its 1967 border and stop fomenting aggression and hatred by occupying land that is not theirs and stop pretending they are being law abiding neighbors.
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I think this is a real gud chance to get hammas back into dialogue,if we dot do it now we might never get another chance to get them into dialogue..By releasing Alan they have proved that they are disciplined group.Things cant change in a day and someone will have to make the first move otherwise this problem may never be solved and we may never see an end to the voilence.
Kathmandu
Nepal
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Israel and its its sympathizers don't want to talk to Hamas, and why? Because Hamas does not want to accept the status quo. Divide and rule. Why doesn't Israel accept the existence of Palestine and the Palestinians right to live where they have been living for centuries? Would Israel talk to Hamas if they accept Hamas agrees to migrate to other Arabic countries and leave Palestine all together?
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I wish people would stop using the ambiguous phrase: "Israel's right to exist".
Hamas knows that to the Israelis, that means the separation wall, Jewish settlements, etc.
Everybody gains from this ambiguity.
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Is Alan Johnston abiding by or violating your union's boycott of Israel? Do the journalists on WHYS?
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I would like to say that I believe that in making progress with any group, small steps must be taken and that positively re-enforcing attempts towards good will such as working to free Mr. Johnston are at least a starting point. There is much that Hammas must recognize and do, however, it is never too early or late to begin trying to influence regimes and governments. This is not appeasement anymore than water slowly eroding stone is unnatural. Immediacy and ignoring small signs only futher perpetuate groups in refusal to change.
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The two sides can keep bikering for a long time if they choose. But those who love peace should examine the bigger picture of equity and justice. For the common man in Israel, the realities are not as harsh as that in Palestine. They have been reduced to living in constant fear of Israeli incursions and restrictions. That only breeds hatred. Even with respect to hostage taking, the number of Palestinian woman and children held by Israel without trail is a good indicator of the injustice they incur. So, let us not loose sight of who has more resources and who can risk extending the olive branch. But instead, Israel seems to exploit PR on relative small events. I wish they grow up and realize the harm it is doing to their own people as well as Palestinians.
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Listening to the programme and I am amazed at the typical massive hypocrisy from some people in the west.
There are many people who say that Israel and others cant talk to Hamas because Hamas don't recognise Israel.
Yet very few people mention that Israel and most of the international community do NOT recognise Hamas yet no such precondition is applied for Israel why not ?
Israel does NOT even in effect recognise a Palestinine state or even the occupied territories because Israel does not recognise the independence and integrity of the Palestinian territories as it sends in troops and bombs the area at will.
Besides which thats what negotiations are for. If Hamas complied with everything Israel asks of it before any talks or Israel agreed to all demands from the Palestinians what would be the point of talks ??
Its also a naive view, no ?
Also Hamas was democratically elected something which most western countries demand of those in the Middle East and yet when it happens and the result isn't what they want, dmeocracy is no longer important. Hypcorisy again.
Peace
Asad
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We absolutely MUST dialog with Hamas. But there is much more to the situation that simply talking. Both sides MUST recognize that they must make sacrifices. For instance, Israel might have to retreat to earlier lines, while Palestine might have to give up the right to return to certain homes within Israel proper.
The long and short of it, however, is that BOTH sides must come to the table on equal terms. The international community must show impartiality, and hold both sides to the same standards.
Israel must stop demolitions Palestinian homes, and Palestine must stop suicide attacks.
If all else fails, however, the United States must find a way to become independent of the region. If the US sets a deadline for withdrawing support to Israel, if will force Israel to become a little more flexible in negotiations with all Palestinian factions.
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Listening to a previous caller who mentioned that she read the Jerusalem Times every day scared me. As a resident of Israel and Jerusalem I learned very quickly that reading only that paper did NOT provide an accurate view of both sides of the situation. The caller also mentioned that "We have given them electricity and food" or something to that effect. Don't people realize that the control we (Israel) have and exert over the people in the surrounding (non-Israeli) lands is one of the primary reasons for the violence we are going to continue to experience?? YES we should take this GOLDEN opportunity to talk with Hamas!!
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The persons calling in clearly only read the first few paragraphs in news reports in the main stream press and nothing else.
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Hamas was duly elected. For years the West has spoken with governments who were much worse than those in Hamas.
Donna from Israel said that Israel was letting water and food in and that was communication. GEEZ--when you live under occupation, and have your big brother telling you how to run your affairs and what you can think, you're just suppose to accept it graceful and thankfully. "I'll have another swift kick in the butt, sir," they should ask.
What about all the political prisoners and kidnapped Palestinians? Who cares about them? Who cries out for their release? I am embarrassed to be part of the West. We are drowning in ignorance.
My country claims to be a "christian" country--and what did Jesus do? Did he ignore his enemies, and turn them into the most hated and feared people on the earth? No, he did not. He loved all those who conspired against him, knowing that through love peace is possible.
But the west uses bullets to show love, so when they receive them back, it's unexplainable and unacceptable, and considered acts of barbarians. The west needs to take a good long look at itself in the mirror if we ever hope to find peace with radical muslim--or radical jews and christians for that matter.
How sad I feel for the west's willful ignorance of muslims, and africans for that matter.
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Hamas is holding the palistinian state hostage, unfortunately you have to open lines of communication to negotiate.
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Mr Hamad claims that Gilad Shalit was fighting Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, but in fact, he was captured by Hamas when he was guarding the Israeli border. Maybe you could also ask Mr Hamad about his organisation's anti-semitic Charter, issued in 1988. It's available on the internet and is full of exhortations to kill the Jews and references to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Is it still valid?
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Isn't it rather hypocritical of mega rich musicians to lecture on saving the planet when they themselves produce large amounts of carbon emissions with their constant jet-set, mega-consumer lifestyles. What amount of air travel to be at the upcoming concert. Theirs is a wasteful industry and extravagently wasteful lifestyle. Elton John for one spends hundreds of thousand on flowers alone. This concert for one will consume vast resources and while good to raise awareness isn't a good example. It makes me wonder why I go to great lengths to consume less, reuse what I have and preserve my corner of the globe when others around me and across the globe do not.
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Responding to the debate about the 'real victims', the truest victims are the civilians on both sides. No matter how you slice it, both Israel and Palestine are guilty of various war crimes. Both sides must be able to set aside the past and move toward the future.
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Is it not true to say we must all reap what we sow & Israel has sown the seeds for one state in Palestine &must then speak to Palestinians
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Regarding Zimbabwe, I have a feeling that the problem is much the same as the rest of the 3rd world. Rampant corruption has led to a collapse of economy and faith in the government. While the current situation requires an immediate and drastic fix, the long-term solution must also be examined. Unless Zimbabwe, and other countries facing the same situation, must find a way to end the endemic corruption, lest they stumble back into chaos.
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we seem to be very selective about who we talk 2. in the past when it has suited us we in the west have delt with and even supported far more brutal regimes, china, saddam, burma, pinochet, we even supported the taliban when it was convenient. while i condem the violence on both sides it seems the hight of hypocrisy to suddenly draw a line and condem hamas.
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It'll be a right move to include hamas into political process. Hamas is a determined party n we must use this determination for peace in the region.
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Hamas shld b engaged.those who condemn hamas, shld put demselves in d shoes of d oppressed palestine.If d UK is occupied by China by 2050 wen it becomes d supreme superpower to decongest d mainland,will d british who resist occupatn b called terrorists ?
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Once again democracy exists only if you vote for the people we like. Israel wants a Palestinian state subservient not independent, Israel must accept that it has to talk to the Palestinians whoever they DEMOCRATICALLY elect. Please remember Israel has done things that are internationally illegal without ever being censured. Yes there must be a state of Israel but one that accepts that the Palestinians have a right to exist too.
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I think it is a well known and accepted "biblical" statement that we must reap what we sow and it is my view that over the decades (since its inception and through its colonial actions) Israel has sown the seeds of an inevitable ONE STATE and it will take a Messiah to fix the mess.
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How can hamas israel which doesnt have a border firstly and secondly they r asked 2 recognise occupation why israel doesnt recognise palestine
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I think the key here is that Hamas must remove the part of their charter that calls for Israel's destruction. It is possible to negotiate with some one even if is at war with them. The point was made earlier that we ( the US, etc at least) talk to North Korea, 2 points, I don't think they call for the US's destruction AND they don't have the means to do so. Iran is an example of where the US or other could negotiate with a rogue state with extreme views but doesn't have the means to overrun our country. With Hamas that is much more a possibility ( still small at this point ) but at Hezbollah showed, not as farfetched as was thought. It was noted that not all of Hamas refuses to reconize Israel, when they can speak for Hamas then it is time to talk. Finally a comparison was made between Hamas and Rightwing Jewish groups that oppose in deal on Gaza or the West Bank. It was claimed that those groups are negotiated with. As far as I am aware no countries outside of Israel are talking to these groups nor are they being asked too!!!
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If the Hamas can prove beyond any shadow of doubt the whole Johnston saga was not a set-up by them to garner international attention, then, it would be OK to talk to them. Besides, they need to end their enmity against Israel; they should be willing to recognize Israel and renounce violence.
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The same spirit the palestinians have shown to Allan Johnson they should show it to the Israelis. Peace is not only possible but inevitable.
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Concerts are a waste of time cos people go there mostly for pleasure& the celebrity.Scrap it & look for a better approach.
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International body should talk to the political wing of hamas and the political wing will talk to the military wing.
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HAMMAS SHOULD RECOGNISE ISREAL AND RENOUNCE VIOLENT. SO THAT MIDDLE EAST WILL BE PEACEFUL. THEN THE WORLD WILL TALK TO THEM.
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Mugabe hs failed 2 improve macroeconomic life of zimbabwe & his leadership nature is now exhibitin a diminishin returns charactristic.
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Hamas cannot extricate itself from the gimmick played with the life of Allan. Ills of terror & Recalcitrants need no attention.
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Hamas was elected by the people. Tell me how are we going to reach peace when we considered Hamas as the Devil ? Sometime the Devil has friends. Alan Johnston was freed by Hamas not By Usa, Britain, or Eu.
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One thing that has puzzled me since I started listening to the international press but which I haven't read in most history textbooks is the special treatment for Jews and the state of Israel. Why should everything HAMS does or for that mattter the Palestinians be viewed in the context of a secure Israel state? I heard one discussant talk just of the ills of HAMAS having killed many Israelis, but how does that compare to the number of palestinians or Arabs killed by Israel since its emergence after the second world war? Until this special riddle of the Jew and jewish state is solved and we agree that all human beings are equal, I don't see a solution to the mideast crisis
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That Alan johnston s been freed is fantastic 4 him his family everyone. But what about the israili hostage taken last summer shalik(?) No mention of him?
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