Huge wake-up call for England
This was a deeply chastening experience for England cricket lovers. I really hope it was for the players, too.
I am absolutely sure that they believe they tried their best on each and every day, but they came at this series from such a low level of preparedness that, in those circumstances, their .
This has to be the biggest wake-up call in English cricket, and if attention is paid to this thrashing, then something good will come from it.
If there is simply a fudged inquiry in some locked room at Lord鈥檚, it would be an insult to everyone that holds the interests of English cricket dear to their hearts.
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Senior and well respected former players were called in to give their views on what had gone wrong, and the right mechanisms - including the 鈥榩oaching鈥 of the bowling coach, Troy Cooley - were installed.
Similarly, England must look very closely at themselves.
Discipline has to be restored. For a start, this includes reminding the players that being on tour is a job - and a very well paid one at that.
If they do not want to be away from home, that鈥檚 fine: don鈥檛 come. The pandering to the , has to stop.
Tours must be structured properly, with the right balance between preparation, hard work and down time.
There has to be a spell at the start of a tour when the team builds its spirit and character without the distraction of the families.
It is absolutely impossible to structure a strong team with the presence of wives, girlfriends and children.
There is a time on every tour - when that 鈥榖onding鈥 has been achieved - that the families can come, but not before. This is a serious job, and the priorities have been lost on this trip.
The practice matches on tour must be competitive. I firmly believe that Australians are naturally more competitive that we are - so what chance did the players have of stopping the when all they had in terms of serious preparation was a single three-day game in Adelaide?
The 14-per-side outing against New South Wales was a joke and Steve Harmison - hopelessly out of form - was allowed to wander off the field to get his feet up during the second innings after bowling just 5 overs!
I fear for England in the one-day series. Unless they start strongly, particularly against New Zealand, they could get a battering.
And with the World Cup just around the corner now, the most high octane winter of international cricket England have ever faced could turn out to be a nightmare.
Couldn't agree more Jonathan. This series has been an embarrassment to English cricket - not so much for losing as Australia were clearly and consistently the better side - but more the manner in which we capitualted.
Leadership was muddled at best and preparation was atrocious.
The bottom line is that lessons must be learnt immediately otherwise that nightmare may well become a reality.
-George Martin, London
Complain about this postWhere should the English players drop off those MBE's?
Complain about this postI have been an ardent England fan ever since I can remember. I had paid to watch the current test series with Australia and also spent a lot my time watching the matches on pay TV.
Regretfully I must say that the current England team is bunch of useless cricketers with no pride, inspiration or backbone.
The Captain and the Coach seem not to know how to motivate the team.
in my opinion the fans have been cheated and should not waste their time and money watching the English Cricket Team unless the players show pride and the will to win in future.
I do hope that the management will name a captain and coach who can inspire and motivate the team in the future
Complain about this postAnd the comments are backed up by the columns written (or ghost-written) by players. It seemed that partying and drinking featured as heavily as playing. Regardless of the sun and surf, this is not a backpacker's holiday but a job.
The performance of the summer was one by a certain Mr J Agnew. Once again he delighted the Australian public with his warmth, wit, charm, humour, modesty and intelligence. It's worth listening to every moment of an Ashes tour to hear his dulcet tones, and it's always sad when he leaves our shores.
Complain about this postAt least Peterson did not have to bat with the tail this time.
Complain about this postAggers - England were extremely poor, but at least the XI who took the field had the courage to try. This is more than can be said for Michael Vaughan and the other senior players who completely bottled the tour.
If an Australian captain hid in the dressing room while his mates were being flayed on the field, he'd never be forgiven. But apparently that's OK with the England fans. Speak up Mr Vaughan, the silence is deafening.....
Complain about this postWhat a fitting result for this series and a perfect way to send off the Aussie legends. Goes to show it was only bad umpiring, bad weather and injuries that cost Australia the Ashes last year. It's time for MBE's for the Aussies now.
Complain about this postWe NZers are looking forward to administering a "battering", we all know how inept England are at ODIs...
There are a number of lessons from the tour. The inner circle containing Geraint Jones (not even in the starting XI in the series before) was a joke, and his selection ahead of Read who had been playing so well must have undermined some players confidence.
They (Mahmood, Read, Panesar) did so well against Pakistan, and then they were dropped so that England could re-live past glories with a team as close to 2005's as possible. Australia didn't live in the past(except to be motivated by it), and England were punished.
Amid all the hype, England were totally underprepared. Hopefully with the Ashes tour in England next time that won't happen again.
There was hope for the future. Pieterson was consistently good. Cook looks promising, contributing a good hundred. Bell was gritty and dogged and came away respected by the Australians. Panesar bowled well on pitches that didn't suit him. And Read's glovework was supurb. England have some building blocks for the future, hopefully they get it right next time.
Complain about this postEngland have suffered some humiliating defeats in the past two decades, but this ranks as No1. But the English public and the press bear some responsibility because we aided and abetted their transformation from cricketers into celebrities. So boys, put an end to your showbiz parties, to your appearances in Hello magazine, to your highly-paid autobiographies, and get back to playing some cricket. And, while you're still in Australia, try and find a few spare backbones.
Complain about this postAs an Australian supporter, England's win in 2005 was the best thing to have happened in a Ashes series in a long time - the interest in the 2006/7 series was enormous. That's what we need. I'm glad we've got the Ashes back, but really, 5-0? Couldn't England do better than that? All those over-the-top celebrations in 2005 must feel a little stupid now.
Complain about this postWhen you ignore the hype from the english media you are left with this.
England(like india in 01) played as good as they can ever play and snuck home 2-1 vs australia who weren't at their best.
When on song the gap between england and australia is massive as this australian team is up with the top 2 or 3 from all time while this england side wouldn't even be in the top 10 or 15 sides of all time.
if both teams were full strength and firing the career stats tell you there would be only 1 winner.
Complain about this postWhy do England persist with Flintoff at 6 and playing with 3 quicks and a spinner - leaving a long tail. Anderson + Mahmood weren't bowled much and were rubbish when they did get the ball. We should play 6 batsmen, Freddie at 7, then Read and the bowlers.......South Africa have Pollock in at number 8!
My team - Vaughan, Strauss, Cook, Pietersen, Bell, Joyce, Flintoff, Read, Hoggard, Harmy, Monty........
Complain about this postHello Aggers. Do you get to talk to people in high places inside the ECB and PCA? Is there any hope of getting your message into the skulls of those people that make important decisions about English cricket? We need an overhaul, not a quick fix. What a sorry, pathetic series from England. I'm ashamed that we showed so little fight after the drama of 2005. Very sad. dd
Complain about this postYour comments are great to hear but as ever, will the english press just gloss over this awful performance and not follow through with the enquiry? If the playerd can't even admit that they were totally substandard, what chance have we of any change?
Complain about this postMr Agnew your views are entirely correct particularly regarding families. No matter what people say about this being able to combine the family life and work in this day and age it is impossible.
One only has to look at senior professionals in the business world (not mediocre middle management) to understand this. How much time are the best senior executives able to spend with families? These top performing business professionals are the people this shoddy English team should be comparing themselves with. It may not make them such intereseting pals or drinking companions but it does make them succesful.
You say you hope that England will learn from this experience. If history and others sports in England have taught us anything, and I think it most likely has, nothing will come out of this thrashing. Players and management will continue to live and perform on there small cocoons, protected from reality by hefty, undeserved salaries and sponsorship deals.
England got exactly what they deserved in this series. Hats off to Austrailia for the professionalism they have shown. One supspetcs there may be a little more control and modesty as would expect from a team of genuine professional as they wllow in their victory.
The rest of the tour and World Cup, I imagine, will continue in the same vein with England stumbling from pitiful defeat to pitiful defeat accompanied by the same collection of feeble excuses. At least we will be able to give Engand credit for one thing, thier consistancy!
Complain about this postcomiserations to the english team. They DID play some good cricket, they just could not match our Amazing team. I kook forward to 2009 as i know it will be a different team and a whole new ball game. But we Aussies will produce a great team, I have no doubt. The 5-0 whitewash was a moment in my life that Im unlikely to see again and Im am so proud of our boys.
Complain about this postI cried at the end when Langer was teary. Im gonna miss warne, langer, martin and magrath but I look forward to the next group of exciting young players who will be very good cricketers as well. The team left in the hands of its captain Ricky Ponting, with Lee and clarke bowling as well as they did and the superb fielding of Clarke and Symonds will be a force to reckon with. Ponting as far as im concerned is one of the best and most motivating captains Ive ever seen. He copped too much flak last year and I hope he is enjoying this moment
Cricket was the loser overall.
Every cricket fan wanted to see an exciting series-it never happened.
The second test was the deciding moment-England losing it despite being 460-4 at one stage.
The great thing about Australia over the years is that they have always kept their best players fit.
England without Simon Jones, Trescothick and Michael Vaughan (who had a great tour here four years ago)-and with Ashley Giles, Flintoff, Harmison who were not 100% fit-would always struggle.
Geraint Jones has been out of form for a good year-so that only left KP, Bell, Collingwood & Hoggard from 2005 who all had their moments on this tour.
I still believe if England were all fit and better prepared then it would have been a classic series.
As it is cricket fans were denied and the game of cricket has sufered.
The ICC must take some blame for this.
Well done Australia-simply awesome.
Complain about this postOh and I have forgotten Andrew Strauss-a good player who was not allowed to get a score by poor umpiring.
Complain about this postwell I must say the eng team are a likeable bunch and worse eng teams have been here without losing 5-0.
Why didn't eng play an extra bat, as it just didn't make sense to anyone. If FF isn't fit don't play him.
There was too much made of the 2005 ashes where aussies had a bad series, and these mistakes could be patched up. Remember the media was saying aus cricket has no one to come in , the national team will really struggle from now on blah blah.
It WAS that extreme at the time.
Maybe we are being too extreme on eng because next series they will have Jones,Vaughn and an extra bat, and the swing factor.
Complain about this postSo long and thanks for all the fish.
Yes Aggers they did try their hardest, let's not forget that, but their best was never even close to the dedicatio, skill and match readiness of the aussies.
The MCC needs its head read for its absurd comments that the ashes are too fragile to be transported, get real you bunch of old time losers you have done more to harm the game and the credibility of English cricket than anyone else, gow up you pretentious creeps. And as ofr the ECB, what a disgrace!
Perhaps we should give back the greeks marbles too. At least it would show we have some dignity left. Sack everyone and start again and England GROW UP and start acting like a mature country instead of a bunch of arrogant wanna be's trading on a long dead past. and btw sack Tony Blair too! lol!
I'm going back to drinking now, so should the rest of the shameful english cricket establishment.
Complain about this postNow the nightmare is complete, althoug I too fear that Aussies will feast on England's forlorn cricketers one more time during the One Day series. Jonathan is spot on that, if this is just shrugged off by the powers that be, then the next embarrasment may not be so far away. As I drown my sorrows this evening at Kingston Cricket Club, a sad and disconsolate Englishman in the Caribbean, I find that even my West Indian friends are gleefully rubbing their hands together at the prospect of playing us next summer at Lords! Who would ever have thought that a year ago !
Complain about this postBarman - more ale !!!
I agree with Aggers. There needs to be far, far better and more detailed preparation before the next test series and certainly an inquiry into the preparation, selection and performance on this tour.
Furthermore, it is not enough for players to be selected on reputation or previous performances - players have to be selected on current form. To play certain players who have been out of play or practice for a length of time without giving them provincial or sufficent warm up tests is ridiculous.
The way in which so much seemed to rely on England (us) repeating the form and atmosphere of the last Ashes tour, on waiting for certain players to return and on ushering in untried or underperforming players is an indictment of a poor administration and corporate management.
There seems to be a belief in English sport that over-hyping team performance and having a nostalgia for past glories will allow teams to glide through any sea of troubles. It happens in Rugger and Footer as well (media harping on about 'a repeat of '66 etc) - so perhaps the English media should take a look at itself as well.
This is a tremendously dissapointing tour, and so let us hope and confide that REAL, LASTING and EFFECTIVE changes will result at:
managerial;
players;
coaching;
preparation
and yes, A COUNTY LEVEL.
Perhaps the use of more Australian style management and coaching practices will assist a change in these areas.
England needs to perhaps get a bit more steel into their playing, and we have two years to acheive this.
Lets hope this is a turning point, and the lowest ever ebb of English cricket.
Complain about this postThe point you make about the upcoming One Day Series is an interesting one. At the moment Ashes euphoria will be in full swing, but soon enough someone will have to 'officially' switch attention away from the Ashes and towards the next series, which for Australia is vital preparation for the World Cup.
In the back of his mind, I don't think Ricky Ponting is quite satisfied with simply regaining the Ashes. If Australia were to win the World Cup for the third time in a row, it would mean victory in the ICC Rest of the World series, Champions Trophy, Ashes and World Cup all within two years. It's an opportunity not to be missed, and a fitting way to end the supposed Warne-McGrath dynasty.
To compare the preparations and attitudes Australia, England and even New Zealand take into this series will be intriguing. Australia will find it tough to refocus on the One Day game, and complacency may be an issue that could prove costly come the World Cup. On the other hand, England will somehow have to shake off the psyche of damage-control that currently encapsulates the team, and focus on maintaining a positive approach to the game.
Funnily enough New Zealand, typically the dark horse in the One Day arena, should be favourites to take out the series. They are one of few teams legitemetly capable of beating Australia in Oz, and provided they don't choke against a resurgent English side, they should have the focus and preparation to take it out.
Complain about this postI suggest that england place less importance for the ashes coming in the two and a half years later in 2009.
There were only two problems that contributed to this whitewash.
1. English bowlers were not fully fit and bowling like an attack, in combinations like Jones-Flintoff, Harmison-Hoggard.
2. Batsmen did not get technically suited to the australian pitches, and partly due to the lack of experience, sicne the bowlers did not show attacking initiative, huge pressure placed upon inexperinced batsmen.
Suggestion to Flintoff:
DO NOT TALK ABOUT 2009 BECUASE YOU MIGHT NOT BE THERE.
Concentrate on the WORLD CUP, more important right now.
5-0 is the best thing that happened to england. Young players like bell and cook will learn what it means to get thrashed and whitewashed.
Rotation policy must be developed to give international experience to 2nd string players.
Get rid of friends and develop a team of winners and not losers, by that i mean people who dont lose by a whitewash.
And pray the next australian generation is not as good as the present one.
And drop Harmison if he doesn't want to play.
Hope ponting and clarke break their hands or legs, go out of form before 2009.
Finally, be happy warne, mcgrath are retired, and dont expect a walkover next time round. If you want to in earn it and rub defeat into australia every time in years to come.
Complain about this postI agree with much of Aggers's comments.
However, i feel one major point has been missed.
Although the England team struck a purple patch in the Ashes series of 2005, there is a basic flaw in technique in this team. This can be covered up by the likes of Troy Cooley, but has been horribly exposed by the ruthless (and fantastic) Australian team.
It is not coincidence that KP has been the top batsman in both the Ashes series he has played in and the fact that our bowlers could not bowl out the Australians twice each test when our bowlers can't put the ball in the right spot consistently was again proof of flawed technique.
What I'm surprised about is that not many people have linked this to our dismal form in the one-day game.
One-day internationals put serious pressure on basic techniques and this is why England have been found wanting in both the batting and bowling department in that form of the game as well.
I'm afraid it all goes back to the grass roots and the lack of competitiveness in the domestic game.
Enough said.....congrats Aussies!
Complain about this postIf Mahmood's display of brilliance when offered the chance of running out Shane Warne- is "their best" then no amount of post thrashing analysis will be of any benefit. You can tell when a sportsman is putting in 100% and only on rare occasions did we see an English shirt doing this, most of the time it was half hearted and some of the time deplorable. The great thing about the Ashes of 2005 was that 2 teams went at it hard, not this time.
Complain about this postAggers,
I totally agree with you that this is a job and that playing test cricket does actually matter.
Complain about this postToo many of these players think its a holiday and personally I would not have the players' families out until Christmas. You are spot on when you say if they are committed to touring overseas then they should not be pro
Totally in agreement.
Complain about this postYou are absolutely right. One could see the intensity in the Aussies even during the post match celebrations and more importantly, one could see the bonding between the players. England needs to emulate the Aussies in the depth of their preparation. The time also appears to have come for former England players to stop getting on England's case and put their money where their mouth is. Apart from earning big bucks elsewhere, why cannot some of them use their time to set English cricket back on track.
Complain about this postToo much superstar behaviour,not enough star quality.The aussies were not flash or flambouyant , they were just professional . Our boys went designer shopping wearing diamond studded earrings whilst their men went to work .
Complain about this postI've posted lots of gloating on this blog, but it's all good fun. Very little of it is serious at then end of the day. The Ashes is simply a nice distraction.
To England, seriously, the 5-0 did not reflect the difference between the 2 sides, I didn't think. There were plenty of times I felt England might get up. The more tests they lost, the more they went down psychologically than anything else. Anyway I'm sure it will be a lot closer in 09. Enjoyed your comments. Cheers.
Complain about this postHi Jonathan
Complain about this postI do watch more of crickets being played by Australia than by India. For the last 2-3 years I suddenly have developed more taste in the Ashes Series. I try watching as much as I can.
Well, I do agree with you on the seriousness factor of the English team which indeed is lacking in the entire series. This may very well be because of the nostalgia. I would like to add that the side MUST have a killer instinct to fetch the match the way the Aussies do!! I will say that it is more of a mind game that Aussie play. You see when your 2 men are there on the crease playing for a long time, Aussie upset, suddenly any one of them give away his wicket. Then you see the attack by them, they wont even allow you to get even a single thereafter. If they are 9 down for 100 McGrath will come and lead the team to victory by is batting. Thats all about the psychology and ofcourse keeping the basics right!!!
If attention had been paid to the 2 narrow wins, 1 big loss in Ashes 2005;
If attention had been paid to the disastrous 2-0 loss in Pakistan immediately thereafter... despite the presence of Vaughan and Trescothick;
If attention had been paid to Flintoff's meagre captaincy skills on the India tour...
If attention had been paid to the manner Tresco conducted himself during the tours of Pakistan and India...
If attention had been paid to Fred's persistent injury in the home series...
If attention had been paid to the indifferent performance against Sri Lanka..
If attention had been paid to the questionable decisions that got England a win in Test 3 vs Pakistan...
If attention had been paid to the good performances of Monty, Shah... and the inconsistencies of Harmison, Bell, Anderson and above all, Flintoff...
If attention had been paid to the sub-standard batting skills of the 'keepers...
If attention had been paid to Fletcher's dubious selections and proclivity to running away from blame.. etc. etc.;
If attention had been paid to people like Boycott who've been saying this for a long time...
the 5-0 might not have happened in the first place.
And the ridiculous selection of Nixon, the ambivalence over Vaughan, and lack of new batting faces in the ODI squad a few months from the World Cup...
HAVE SHOWN BEYOND DOUBT THAT THE LESSONS WILL NEVER BE LEARNT... NOT IN THE NEAR FUTURE, WITH THE PRESENT MANGERIAL SETUP.
Complain about this postSad. So much of what went wrong was so avoidable. Sadder still ? Its pretty much the same story across the board in English sport. We continue to live in an era of amateurish incompetence .... except where payment is concerned of course.... its all very professional when wages are concerned....
Complain about this postOf course, what might make the ECB wake up a little and take notice is if the Barmy Army and associated loyal England supporters had walked out of the ground en masse.
If teams realise that they have to work to gain fan confidence, then maybe the players will take notice and play harder.
Complain about this postFor as long as England remain the only Test nation not to have an off-season, we will continue to find it hard to prepare properly for Ashes tours.
The ECB expects England to play seven Tests and a growing number of one-day matches every summer.
You cannot prepare properly for an Ashes tour while playing a Twenty20 in Chester-le-Street in September.
Complain about this postThe elephant in the room of course is that Austrailia have far far better players than us.
All this navel gazing about lack of preparation is a bit academic when you take this in to consideration.
The underperfoming players in the 2005 Australia team have been replaced with the likes of Hussey and Clark, whilst we have scraped the barrel as ususal.
County cricket is rotten and has been for most of my life time (I am 40). It is a retirement home for overseas stars and ageing country pros. It clearly does not produce any where near the quality of Sheffield Shield.
Everything else is mere detail.
Complain about this postThe fact is the English team did NOT play at their best. They were not hungry for success. They did not function as a team at all. It is a sad reflection on English sports and one that needs an urgent overhaul before you guys host the Olympics. Dont fall into the trap of playing the blame game. Show some team spirit by accepting collective failure at almost every level. Identify area's for improvement and formulate plans for achieving said improvements. As for 2009, dont say we might win, you need to take a leaf out of the aussies book from 2005. Your expected attitude should be, we will do whatever it takes to make sure we can and do win in 2009. Do NOT even entertain the thought that you may not win. Then everyone can enjoy ashes cricket that is tough and close and up for grabs.
Complain about this postThe responsibility lies with the coach and the captain. Their all right jack attitude even when thrashed comprehensively shows Duncan Fletcher and Flintoff remain clueless. The coming one day series will cause an another thrashing for England unless their attitude to age gane changes.
Complain about this postAggers,
You are quite right about the issue of touring. If you are not committed to playing overseas then dont make yourself available.
Complain about this postTest cricket is a job and an important one at that and the sooner the ECB realise this the better.
OK, time to reflect on what has happened and what the ECB should do to fix it.
Firstly, well done to an excellent Australian team! We are all left wondering how they could have coped under real pressure - sadly England exerted none and the Aussies did everything expected of them and a little more in Adelaide. They deserved to win the series as convincingly as they did.
I agree with Aggers' comments re: preparation. England needed more tour matches and longer in Australia before the first test. If they had suggested scheduling matches against every state side, I doubt any would have refused the chance to play the tourists early on.
Selection - plenty has been made of the decision to bench Panesar, Read and Mahmoud. For my money, the first two should have been definites from the start...and Mahmoud would not play again for a while if I was selecting...failing to back up his bowling and missing a run out (and not seeming to care) told us plenty about his character. Panesar and Read did well in their specialties and also showed promise with the bat at times, something to build on there. Cook is in for the long run, Vaughn was unlucky but is a damn fine player. Pietersen should definitely bat at four, but less charging up the pitch please. It's not entertaining and it gets you out pretty fast too. Gilly didn't play many unorthodox shots in his quickfire hundred at the WACA - KP should watch and learn and become even more effective, rather than a short-lived sideshow.
Anderson is a good bowler but too inconsistent to play at this level. Until he can group the ball in the same area for six consecutive balls, he is no use to us. If he is the most consistent young bowler we have then we have real problems. Australia spotted McGrath's potential long before even he did and they built on the potential to produce a great player. Our coaches should be looking to emulate that approach - players who have the right temprament and consistency for the long version of the game deserve to play Tests for England - the rest can stay in their pyjamas.
The tail - obviously it is too long but we get the worst of both worlds at the moment - not enough batters and too many poor bowlers. I would suggest playing an additional batsman e.g. Joyce, dropping the extra seamers (probably Mahmood) and having Freddy bat at seven, Read at eight, Panesar at nine, Hoggie at ten, Harmison (or Jones when fit) at eleven. We can easily get more overs from part-time bowlers like Collingwood (who only had a single spell in the whole series) and get KP to practice his off-spin. When fit and firing, three seamers of Hoggie, Harmy and Freddie's quality plus an attacking spinner in Monty should get us enough wickets.
Finally on the subject of the captaincy, Freddie has done great things for England in the past but he's a naive Test captain - his field placings and strategies were unimaginative, set way too deep and lacked variety. He sowed no seeds of doubt in the minds of the Aussie batsmen. If Vaughn is not fit, Strauss must regain the captaincy and let Freddie concentrate on destoying the opponents with bat and ball, as he has shown himself capable on many occasions.
BRING ON 2009!
Complain about this postRe Wags on tour - totally agree with Aggers on this...most of us who earn a living are not accompanied by our wives and/or girlfriends. Wags attendance should be restricted to the last day of the tour at most. A clause should be added to players' contracts so it becomes part of their commitment to the game.
Complain about this postAh well, that's over.
Now the tears have passed that our legends are retiring, maybe we can dare to hope that England will shape up and give us a contest next time. The Ashes is the most important sporting contest in existence to Australia, and our players are passionately dedicated to playing for their country.
England, meanwhile, seem to view the Test matches as a bothersome distraction from their Australian holiday.
We wanted to win this, but we were looking forward to a tough fight. If our own side weren't at least giving us good cricket to watch there would have been blood on the grass - come on, England, do your part for once. Give your fans as well as we Aussie fans something to appreciate. Maybe if the players make believe they think they can win, they'll have a shot at looking better than useless.
Complain about this postThis England team is an embarisment to the country and their cricket followers.Today none of the players showed any guts and folded like meek little lambs.The coach and captain must be replaced and 90% of the team as they are not up to test standard.at the moment they will struggle to beat Zimbabwe.
Complain about this postthis team must hang their heads in shame,go home and decide their futures.The aussies were good but 5 nil is no excuse.
I agree with post 17 about Boycott. When will he be given a chance to become a selector for England? It feels like Brian Clough and the England football manager's job. We can see someone who has been there and done it successfully, consistently predicts outcomes and accurately links them to an analysis of the players strengths and weaknesses. Isn't that what you want from a selector/coach? He may be a difficult person to get on with, but he knows his cricket.
Complain about this postBRILLIENT AS USUAL YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE BALL AGGERS. I USED TO ENJOY THE GAMES AGAINST THE STATE SIDES THEY MUST BE REINSTATED. I WONDER IF THESE GUYS REALISE WHAT IT IS LIKE TO LIVE HERE AS AN EX-PAT. WHEN THESE THINGS HAPPEN. SOME OF THEM SHOULD BE FORCED TO ENDURE IT.
Complain about this postGRAHAM
Well said Aggers! Look on the bright side though, it'll only take them a hour and a half to trash us in the 20-20 match, not 5/4/3 days......
Complain about this postc'mon aggers - you should know that a team can only play as well as the opposition allows them. 'Poaching ' Troy Cooley - really. He's an Aussie isn't he? And isn't there some story about the skinflint and ungrateful Pommy cricket authorities not offering him a decent contract after his efforts last year? Wake up, England was thrashed by the better side, out played, out thought, out gutsed
Complain about this postI recall Neil Young being sued by his record label in the mid 80s for releasing albums that were not up to par. I wonder if the English Cricket Board will consider suing the English players for breach of contract for under-performing? They have a fair case.
On another note, this isn't the best Australian side - it is the worst English side to ever land on Australian shores. You don't win cricket games when your number six only averages 32 with the bat and all your bowlers average over 30.
Speaking as an Australian I am very disappointed with the abysmal performance of the English side.
Complain about this postShell Be Right Mate鈥檚鈥
Commiserations TO ALL OUR BRETHERNDS, BROTHERS & SISTERS IN ENGLAND...
SORRY FOR THE THRASHINGSSS!!!...WE ARE TERRIBLY EMBARESSED FOR YOU AOLD CHAPS & CHAPES!!!
Now for our suggestions:
1. As Shane Warne has retired and he is playing in England, I would seriously consider employing him as an adviser to the England team!!! Mind you he would demand a hefty fee!!! Or better still get
2. Glen McGrath and Justin Langer!!! To do the same!!!....
Simple solutions to England鈥檚 problems!!!
See YOU ALL IN 2009!!!...
And better still in the 1010 football world cup where Australia will beat England and get to the FINAL!!!...
That is our ultimate goal鈥nd We Will Achieve IT!!!
Complain about this postReally two very different teams played each other and the better organised won....
Complain about this postThe problem seems to be the schedule, preperation and the captaincy.
Schedule - England played about twice as many tests than Aus since the 2005 Ashes...why?
Preperation - The Aussies showed their commitment by going on a 'Boot Camp' before the series. This was mocked by many but it worked! The warm-up games in Aus were totally hopeless....no one cared...not even the crowd! And then suddenly the heat is on in Brisbane and the whole team looks like it has not got a clue! The Aussies were so focused it was frightening...men and boys!
Captaincy - Botham could not do it...and neither can Fred. I think a batsman who goes in early is the answer as they have time to plot and survey the situation...this is critical. Freddie would have played a great deal better if he was driven rather than being the driver!
You have to be playing really well to beat the Aussies; anything less and its murder! I have no idea what we can do about he World Cup...could be painful!
"Funnily enough New Zealand, typically the dark horse in the One Day arena, should be favourites to take out the series. They are one of few teams legitemetly capable of beating Australia in Oz, and provided they don't choke against a resurgent English side, they should have the focus and preparation to take it out."
One of the biggest myths in cricket is the Kiwi hold over Australia. Since the Champions Trophy in Sri Lanka (02/03), Australia have won 18 of the last 20 games against New Zealand! The 20/20 is a toss of the coin game but if Australia get up there I would not be backing against them going undefeated through the entire summer - Shane Bond is about the only man standing in the way of the whitewash continuing over into the limited over series.
Complain about this postRe David Drew post #9. To make sure the powers that be get the message, simply link this article vis email to the PCA. You will find a David Graveny address there as well!
Complain about this postHave done this already on behalf of a mate who has spent a fortune "down under" watching this horror show.
As a Brit. abroad I am bitterly disappointed. Not only do we under perform at football, we elect to do the same at cricket! National pride must be at a an all time low.
Complain about this postPerhaps we should take on the American attitude of demanding/expecting results regardless of the situation?
What annoys me is when England say they are optimistic about 2009 ashes. There is so much cricket between now and 2009 including the world cup. They were so focussed on ashes during champions trophy and screwed up at all ends. Get a grip and play hard cricket. And stop complaining and cribbing about conditions , injuries , lack of practise etc etc . Sack Fletcher , make strauss the captain and let Flintoff focus on his batting and bowling.
Complain about this postSorry, not post 17, was referring to the enlightening post by SwamyCricketAnanda
Complain about this postAs a Brit. abroad I am bitterly disappointed. Not only do we under perform at football, we elect to do the same at cricket! National pride must be at an all time low.
Complain about this postPerhaps we should take on the American attitude of demanding/expecting results regardless of the situation?
Tony Greig, he said it yet again, the 1921 Whitewash, "that was after the war."
I'll write it again and hope that he might read this or that someone might read it to him.
The Australians were in that war, as they were at the Sudan, at the Boer war, the Second World War, the Korean War, Vietnam and currently they are in Iraq.
60,000 dead in WW1 and only 300,000 went, all volunteers, that's 20% killed in action Tony.
I would like someone to give me similar information about the South Africans; but I know this for sure the Australians held out in Tobruk in WWII, not so the South Africans, all tail-enders from what I read.
Get over it Tony; A Whitewash is a Whitewash is a Whitewash.
As for OBE and MBE awards well the Compton-Miller medal, now that is an award, well deserved, and Tony, in case you missed it it went to an Australian!
Complain about this postA message to this bunch of wasters, including Fletcher and Graveney:
"You let your country down".
And Flintoff ain't no captain (predictably).
Trite, inarticulate and banal, he was tactically bereft on the field.
Mahmood's lazy missed stumping on Day 3 in Sydney summed this bunch of so called "professional sportsman" up.
And the only success of the Tour is a self publicising South African who plays more for his next deal in "Hello" than any love of the Old Country.
The ECB should refund the Barmy Army, and Fletcher, Graveney and Flintoff should walk.
An absolute disgrace.
Complain about this postIts hard being an englishman in aussie during an ashes series, we never have learnt the meaning of the word proffesional like the aussies have, and after your among them for a while the difference is stark, the training and fitness even at the lower levels of the game matches the competativeness and attitudes of professionals elsewhere.
Complain about this postYoungster are well catered for and EVERYONE gets a game, the system works and the truth is Australia coulld put out two or three competative sides any day of the week and give anyone esle a good game, so maybe the "inquiry" should be looking outward for a change, you see our experts, ingrained in our system, just dont cut the mustard and our best could be better if nurtured properly from and early age.
It has been a joy to listen to the English commentators like Jonathan, mixed in with Skulls dry wit on the ABC. I agree with the review process, as any good 360 degree feedback should i.e., it promotes continuous improvement.
It was an absolute joy having the Barmy Army provide oodles of spirit and colour to the game.
Not so much a joy; it was a pity the English players didn't live up to expectations; and, I think our Aussie stadiums/cricket grounds will HAVE to provide dedicated bays for the Barmy Army and Aussie Fanatics to come together to enhance the majesty and colour of the occasion.
Lastly, why shouldn't the Urn stay with each winning side, but naturally not exposed to the celebratory bubbly champers.
Complain about this postAs far as I am concerned, this is English cricket's worst moment since it took wooden spoon honours in 1999 aganst New Zealand. That was the nadir of a decade of inept cricket, and hardly surprising. But years later, with all the best ingredients of the Hussain-Vaughan-Fletcher era well-mixed and highly successful too, this farce of an Ashes is a thorough diappointment to all who witnessed England's resurrection over the years. That the same same team which contributed one of Test cricket's greatest memories last year now gives us one of England's worst ever is astounding. A whole generation of so-called lesser England players managed to avoid such humiliation since the 1990s, but this team has outdone them, deservingly or not. Mr. Agnew, I find it hard to believe any hopes of English cricket picking itself up in the near future are realistic--with all the hard work since 2000, what more needs to be done for England to be consistently world-class?
Complain about this postThe professionalism, determination and focus shown by the Aussies was admirable from beginning to end.
Complain about this postThe ECB should take note, winning the ashes back was a mission from the day it was lost and it accomplished with pride. I can't help but congratulate the Aussie team.
My only wish is we take our heads out of the sand and understand coming second is actually last place.
Putting on a good show is just not acceptable
england were never going to win -
i mean which english player is good enough to make it into the Australian team?
NONE!!
Complain about this postIn the past the convicts in Australia were given a flogging for doing anything wrong.
Any minor indiscretion. I think that the Australian cricketers have decided
that when England stole the Ashes last year that it was Australia's turn to
give the English a flogging.
I hope the English cricket team hav learnt a lesson. Don't even think about winning the Ashes again.
Complain about this postIt has been consistently written that England didn't prepare well enough for the series. I agree with that fact and I can't understand that the England Hierachy didn't push for a better prepartion from the beginning. To my knowledge the decision for scheduling warm up matches are arranged between ECB and the ACB prior to a series taking place, therefore why should the blame go to the team and coaching staff.
While on tour though, all players should be continuously fine tuning themselves to the conditions, whether playing in a warm up match or just bowling, batting for long spells in the nets. Eg Harmison bowling everyday in the nets, and getting the confidence from bowling down the pitch until he knows he has it. Harmison was showing signs of his rythm problems in the Pakistan tour in England as well as the ICC Champions Trophy in India. There were no surprises with his results from the series.
Was it possible that Giles was ever bowling better than Panesar prior to the Ashes. Panesar had proven himself to be the best spinner Engalnd had selected in a long time.
To be honest everyone will make a comment in hindsite, it happened when Australia lost the Ashes 15 months ago. Everyone were calling for Ponting, and Buchanan's resignation after that series.
I don't think England approached this series correctly, but that has been the case in previous series of Australia anyway. The difference this time is that they had a team to be competitive.
A perfect example is what India have achieved under Chappell. He has re-established the team in terms of the structure of leadership, and ignited the fighting characteristics for a team to compete over five days every session. Coaching is so important to the team. Fletcher has been around and he should prepare and/or assist the players psychologically for most situations. I didn't see evidence of that.
I believe England have the ability to regain the winning attitude they had before and after the Ashes of 2005. I hope they can now focus on the World Cup to do that. There is time.
My final comment is that whatever the result in the World Cup this year, or even Ashes 2009 or even 2010, the fact is Australia will fight with that ANZAC spirit. We have England to thank for that.
Complain about this postAs an outsider looking in (i'm South African) I take my hat off to the Aussies. When it comes to Test cricket they are bullet proof. Their mixture of street smarts, professionalism and uncanny ability to get under the skin of their opposite numbers is an awe to watch.
The English seemed not to care one bit. The interviews with the English coach and captain before and after each test showed a picture of non-chalantness. Where is the emotion? Yes, 2005 was a bit overdone and over-celebrated for such a narrow win but at least you could see and sense the passion. For a foreigner to be your best batsman and be the only one fighting back says a lot for the English side and the current development structure in England.
Although we Saffers are even more pathetic than England at the 5 day game we are using our strong points to be clinical in the one-day version. We beat both Aus (with one game being "the greatest one day game ever" 438/9) and Eng in 2006. Maybe England could follow suit. One Day cricket is a true test for bowlers and fielders and could be the key to getting the spirit back. In 2006 England seemed to be focussing solely on the Ashes and didn't care about any of the one-day tourney's. A key maybe to their demise in the Ashes?
Complain about this postSo why are Aussies more naturally competitive than the English?
The thing that really stood out in these matches was that if Australia found themselves in trouble, someone would stand up and come to the rescue with a 100 or more. When England found themselves in trouble, they'd just dig a deeper hole for themselves.
Obviously Australia was the better team, but this England team seemed to lack any confidence and belief from the word go. The Ashes were lost on the first Brisbane morning
Complain about this postI have read Justin Langers comments about his pride and honour on wearing the Baggy Green .
If only it meant as much to the England players to wear our cap as it does to Australia.- This is the impression that is given
There are those of us who love the game who can only dream about playing it at the highest level, and would kill to have the oppurtunity to do so, and fight like crazy to to do our best.
Those with the ability and who get the chance need to have this kind of attitude. Only then will we achieve success
Complain about this postif you remember 2005 England only just one the Ashes. Even on the final day with Pieterson dropped, the urn could still have gone back (not literally) with the Aussies.
Complain about this postComing in under prepared, with out Vaughan, Tresco and Jones was always going to be very very difficult, however they didn't give the impression they were up for it.
Yes - there are benfits of Read, Cook etc but simply not good enough....you couldn't imagine the Aussie team doing the same...
A key question in the washup of this Ashes blitzkrieg is this: Did England's lack of preparation stem from arrogance or mismanagement?
Complain about this postThe biggest disaster that could come from this series is a wholesale purge (of players not necessarily ECB and other manager types).
Once the team failed early in the series there was no way Australia was going to let them get up off the mat. it is like expecting a relatively novice boxer to get up off the mat after Tyson has thumped him for a couple of rounds.
This Australian team is one of the best of all time. In the end, it was a pleasure to watch the Australians play irrespective of the pain felt at the way the English played.
Flintoff captained in the same way he plays - with his heart, he is learning to use his head. Some of his field positions were "interesting" at the SCG but he changed them and got on with it.
Vaughan should come back at Captain but leave Freddie as vice captain. Let him learn like Ponting did from Waugh.
The best thing management could say to the team is "that was painful, now get on with it". If they go in for an extended navel gazing exercise then they will merely compound the problem.
England does not want to be blooding a whole new group of players in 09 at the ashes. They need to build on the current team and give them a few more years experience.
The worst thing about this Ashes will be reading all the column inches written by "horrified" and "dismayed" overweight journalists who filled the pubs of sydney for most of the Test and whose sole achievement in life is to destroy too many trees so they can write page after page of absolute cr*% about: the need to stand up and be counted, true spirit, the Botham spirit and such like. The only spirit most of them know comes in shots.
Complain about this postAccept that we saw a great team demolish a mediocre team and leave the players to work out whether they are going to win the next Ashes or go back to their traditional role. I can assure you the Australians will not give them up lightly even without Warne.
Well I wouldn't count on there being a radical overhaul in the game. The counties have too much control. I watched England go down to 3 consecutive 5-0 defeats to the WIindies in the 1980s and I don't remember any great changes then.
Complain about this postAlso I remember a senior English administrator in 1999 when England were bottom of the pile saying that there was nothing wrong with English cricket. It may even have been David Morgan himself.
This was a victory of Aussie professionalism competence, team spirit, confidence and excellence over english arrogance incompetence,mediocrity.disunity and over hype.
Complain about this postThe Ashes series should be played more frequently so we can rub your noses in it more often.
Just you wait and see what the KIwis are going to do to you in the Rugby World Cup
Agree with you Jonathan.
However have to disagree strongly with you Victoreen .
"cocky, rude and lacking in good breeding"
- I am humbled by the way the Australian captain Ricky Pointing was gracious in victory, he didn't laud it over Freddie and the team. Lets not confuse rude with aggression, as I'm sure a few replays will show Monty being rude to the umpires on a few occasions. And as for breeding, hhmm, football supporters in the UK come to mind as a fine example.
"Collingwood could have replied that Warne got a cap and gown, an honorary accolade from the University of Southampton, despite the fact that he does not read. Warne publicly said that he does not read.
- I thought Warnes exchanges with Collingwood were quite amusing and witty especially for a man that doesn't read. Warne is not afraid to show his weakness. However what a general on the field. I am sure being an anglophile you can roll out the various greats of history gone past that didnt read.
"Too many bad decisions against the English
- We must have missed all the bad decisions against Australia in 2005 and this current series. Bad decisions don't loose a game. Its all swings and round abouts.
Well at the end of the last fours years the scorecard is Australia 6 England 2.
Complain about this postThe harder i practice the luckier i get, said the great gary player....nuff said
Complain about this postI wonder if England believed all the hype and talk from English supporters and media that Australia were too old, etc.? Considering the English team's record since the 2005 Ashes, why wasn't it thought that that series was a bit of an anomoly? And it seems that they were ambushed by a much more hungry and determined foe who was playing on their home patch. This means Aus were used to the types of balls used, weather conditions, pitches, travel experience, etc. which was never going to be overcome with the miniscule preparation they were scheduled on. And what little preparation time there was, was squandered on 14 a-side games. Fletcher's justification for these games was that they worked in the past - but that was against weaker opposition. Fletcher's smarmieness during and after the 2005 Ashes (remember his reaction to Ponting's run-out?) and his immense failure this time (selection of patently unfit or unsuitable players for example) should be enough for him to seriously consider handing back his gong.
It will be interesting to see if Aus can beat their 16 wins in a row next summer.
Complain about this post5-0? A fitting result after the over the top celebrations England put on last time. MBE's? they'll be wanting them back I think and like in the UK will Australia issue an Ashes postage stamp that conveniently is the exact cost of sending a postcard to the UK? Ahhh revenge is so so sweet. Will the Aussies rub it in or just let the pack in England do it for them?
Complain about this postAggers great coverage a joy to be a part of. Thanks mate.
I for one never understood why this series held so much promise. Before arriving here for the defense of Ashes, England had done nothing right. Their batsmen were patchy at best. The bowlers were even worse. Their attitude in the last six months spoke volumes about their ability to put up a fight. Winning is a habit and it鈥檚 carried from one series to the next. England put a predictably dismal performance in India for the champions trophy while still maintaining that their focus was with the Ashes. This is a silly attitude to have where one decides in their mind which series they are going to perform and which series is merely an exercise in futility.
The selection of Giles and Jones ahead of the more promising Monty and Read was baffling. After the Perth test Monty contribution was minimal, however his exuberance and sheer enthusiasm was enough indications that he bowled with a view to take wickets. Giles was merely a tourist recruited to impart some non-threatening bowling and occasionally spill chances of key opposition batsmen.
England should take the first flight out of Australia to avoid any further humiliation and work hard towards the next Ashes which in all honesty they will loose鈥︹︹
Complain about this postEngland should now challenge the Aussies for a 5 game Soccer series to settle score.
Complain about this postI fail to see how Messrs Graveney and Fletcher can retain their positions. At the age of nearly 60 I am well used to England's sporting failures, but nothing has been such an embarrassment as this. England capitulated at every turn and displayed a lack of moral fibre. Anybody who maintains that the team was adequately prepared physically and mentally is in a state of delusion. The ECB was also in gross dereliction of duty in failing to re-engage Troy Cooley; but they're probably happy in their ivory tower.
Complain about this postNotice how Harmioson improved the more he bowled. Statham and his ilk bowled hundreds if not thousands of overs in a season and were consistent. Tobe good at something you must do it all the time. Gym work and resting are no good to achieve consistent good results at bowling. There must be a link between all this non cricket relate exercise and the injuries that modern cricketers are bedevilled with. As for non walkers I used to tell children I taught that if they cheated they were only cheating themselves. If I have an8 on a hole at golf and put down a 6 that would not make me feel good. Similarly if I knew I was out scoring 10 and went on to get 70 odd I would not feel right.
Complain about this postAs a dual citizen of both countries, well done Aussies, I lived in the UK during the 2005 series and have taken great pleasure watching Australia take their revenge. I'm looking forward to seeing the English respond and I'm certain it will be more level next time.
Re : the comment by Victoreen Patrick, 06:29 AM on 05 Jan 2007
I'm sure Warney can read, otherwise where did all those alledged text messages come from ?
Oh, if someone was born and raised barefoot in a hut in a 3rd world country settled by white imperialists would that mean that they had good breeding ? Grow up!
Complain about this postOn the money Johnathan!, as an Englishman living in Perth Western Australia it was even more humiliating to see a young underprepared yet talented England side capitulate at several key moments during the five tests.
Complain about this postAs the father of two boys who are passionate about Englands football team (16 year old) and Englands cricket team (12 year old)it is hard to keep their interest in English sport up as they both are let down by the aparent lack of intensity and passion shown by Englands two premier sports teams.
My 12 year old plays cricket in Perth and is a very talented opener/number 3 batsmen as well as a genuine r/arm offspinner (he does have dual nationality if your reading this Mr Graveney). He plays in a side that has at least two or three genuinely good young Australian prospects, the system here encourages that even at this early age you are to play with intensity and from this comes a passion for the game and your team.
I wonder if English junior cricket is played with the same ideal or is it purely 'just for fun', and from this comes Englands'play' for your country compared to Australias 'win' for your country approach, it does appear to produce a very competetive type of player even from a young age, by the way this approach seems to be in all forms of sport.
Englands 2005 ashes victory in my opinion was enhanced to some degree by the fact that the nation and the crowds got behind England and somehow transfered their passion and pride into to the team and this along with gutsy and determined play (ala Punters boys this time round) achieved a more focused and sharper unit
As you said hopefully it will be a lesson learned keep up the good work.
No excuses, England were dire. It will take a while for the extent of this situation to sink in with me. BUT, the idea that Vaughan is hiding and shirking (Post No.6) is offensive. I'm surprised it was posted. As for the Adulation of Aggers, wasn't it he who opted for Giles over Monty!
Complain about this postCant believe that Flintoff is talking about revenge in 2009.
The gap between these two teams is so enormous any catching up will take a great deal longer.
The first thing to do is to admit that we were totally outclassed.
It is also pointless talking about Trescothick, Vaughan and Jones as if they will make all the difference. Trescothick should not be chosen as he has twice let the side down; it is gighly ublikely Vaughan will ever be a force as a batsman again, and Jones will always be injured!
Complain about this postWhy has that "idiot" Flintoff thought it acceptable to state in an interview that "Things can only get better"? How do these people sleep? I work in engineering and I know for certain that if I performed as consistently bad as those fifth rate, under-active under-achievers I'd be out of a job in seconds flat. How many times do we have to listen to, whoever in the England set up says it, "We'll do better next time" Absolutely pathetic England, a shame on you all.
Complain about this postMake no mistake though, a more deserved victory was never won.Well done Oz! Fantastically well played.
"England should now challenge the Aussies for a 5 game Soccer series to settle score."
Do you really need to be reminded!!!!
Complain about this postEngland should now challenge the Aussies for a 5 game Soccer series to settle score
Al - using the last Football World Cup as a measuring stick me thinks the Aussies would win that game as well. :-)
Trueblue, although i think "Vicki's" comments were utter rubbish and hogwash they weren't racist per se...unless you're saying Aussies are another race from the conventional caucasian, african, asian, aboriginee etc. races.
Interesting comments from all though.
Complain about this postWILL THE REAL CRICKET TEAM NOW STAND UP.
Complain about this postNot this lot of ill prepared name in the right place squad.
17 PERSONS REQUIRED.
PLS NOTE.
You will be required to bowl at least 150Kph
score an average of 60 with bat.
catch ball when fielding.
keep mouth shut when required.
take directions from a captain who came from another suburb other than yours.
and above all.
ENJOY PLAYING FOR ENGLAND.
"England should now challenge the Aussies for a 5 game Soccer series to settle score."
Do you really need to be reminded!!!!
Complain about this postI don't agree that they were trying. The body language was all wrong - this was as gutless and limp-wristed an effort as I've seen. Even Graeme Hick showed more bottle, that's how bad these losers were. As for the Aussies trying to frustrate our batters into wayward shots - let Boycott come in and teach them how to defend. Let the Aussies have 10 maidens in a row, if they stay wicketless, they'll chenge lines and can be attacked. It's a mind game, but our players don't seem to have the basic intelligence to play. Shocking. Totally shocking.
Complain about this postHello Aggers,
Congratulations to the Aussies on a series of fine, professional perfomances. As for England, from Harmison's first ball, to Giles's dropped catch, we have been the unfortunate witnesses to a lack of dedication, a lack of fight/guts/steel
which is frightening for the future. The low point must surely be the loss of the 2nd test, when, after declaring at 551-6 at lunch on the 3rd day, England still contrived to lose the match in a display of incompetence which was mind-blowing.
Where do we go from these devastating defeats?*Flintoff must give up the captaincy and concentrate on his batting and bowling
*The following players must be axed : Harmison, Hoggard, Mahmood, Read/Jones, Collingwood
*The management team must all go
I shudder to think what our 2nd XI will produce in the ODI's.
Conclusion : A thoroughly depressing tour and an insult to those supporters who took time off work and paid good money to travel across the world to support a bunch of second-rate, over-hyped, overpaid, incompetent, poorly-motivated and ill-prepared, so-called "sportsmen."
What a contrast to the Australian "Dad's Army" team, whose will to win was apparent from the very start.
Ian.
Complain about this postproblems: 1) flintoff struggles when captain. 2) missing simon jones and did not take broad. 3) should have taken mark butcher. 4) flintoff's ankle still is not right. 5) anderson played. 6) mahmood played. 7) both keepers ar second rate batsmen at best. 8) did not play monty in vital test matches. 9) cook not ready yet, thought he was poor when we needed big ppening stands. 10) strauss out of form. Warny summed it up MBE for Collingwood its is a joke, its not the players fault they got given it, but now they should be stripped of them. They go to work just like anyone else, they have a good year at the office and they are heros, then a bad one, well they should be treated the opposite! if i performed that badly at work i would get the sack. Best get it right lads (not just the players) for 2009.
Complain about this post"Where should the English players drop off those MBE's?"
Complain about this postand where should the australians pick up theres from?? if england get an MBE for their 2005 victory surely the australians should be knighted for their 2006-07 performance
In my view there was only one England star this Ashes series: Aggers.
What an absolute champion! Congratulations on a fine job.
Complain about this posttetley asks "A key question in the washup of this Ashes blitzkrieg is this: Did England's lack of preparation stem from arrogance or mismanagement?"
Complain about this postAs an Aussie, I say that England's defeat has come from a total lack of professsionalism on the part of the England management and players. Part of Australia rebuilding under Alan Border was that our team had to develop a professional attitude in relation to fitness as a no 1 and then developing their skills. But it strikes me that one area that really showed the difference was in fielding. As an aexmaple look at Symonds' hitting the middle stump. Any England players up to that elvel - I think not.
Why did England lose this test series? A lot of theories have been postulated about lack of preparation, lack of key players, lack of the captain, picking the wrong players in the first two tests, etc....
Has anyone considered that England may have lost this becuase they were totally outplayed by a better team?
Far from being the has-been 'dads army' we expected we found that modern fitness techniques and professionalism means that cricketers can play on very effectively into their mid to late 30's? Have we forgotten that Gooch was opening for England when he was 41? The Australians ruthlessly and professionally rolled England simply by playing better cricket than England.
But what of the problems?
Preparation and tour matches: the cricket calendar is not what it used to be. Cricket is a fully professional sport and instead of the old summer and winter test series all nations are playing as many as 4-5 test series per year as well as all the one day series, 20-20 series and ICC series... There is simply no way of arriving in Australia months ahead of time and playing half a dozen tour matches to 'get prepared'. Our cricketers need to be fully prepared at all times and be versatile enough to perform in all conditions. The Australians have done this now for years and won series after series around the world. England have to get this level of professionalism and backbone as well.
Michael Vaughn MIA: What mystical power does Vaughn bring to England that his presence would have changed the result? Early on it felt like he was being used as a bogeyman early on to try and scare the Australians into thinking he might be back. He played 2 tour matches and made 0 and 9 before it was admitted he wouldn't play in the tests (though he looked 'sharp' making the 9 apparently...). I'm sure the Aussies would have welcomed a player with that sort of preparation and form into the England team! Or is it that the English players are a rudderless mob without Vaughn to inspire them? Is there not another player in the England team that can inspire the rest of the team? A sad situation if that's the case!
Flintoff as captain: yes, very probably the wrong choice as fast bowlers should simply have to concentrate on steaming in and getting teams out, but remember he was the one that wanted the captaincy and most people supported it enthusiastically... before this series anyway.
Declaring in Adelaide: ok, so the game was lost but not because of the declaration, it was because of the hopeless capitulation in the 2nd innings. If 550 was too early what should it have been? Bat on to 800 and kill the game off? Play for the draw? England were 1-0 down at the time and rightly wanted to win the test and go to Perth at 1-1, not ensure that they didn't lose. How many people thought the declaration was a bad thing with Australia 29/1 and looking a bit shaky at the close of play on day 2? The game was lost partly because England failed to bowl Australia out in the 1st innings for a low enough score but mainly because of the complete failure with the bat in the 2nd innings. Had they made as few as 200 the Australians would never have had a look in.
Not picking Panesar (particularly): he took 5 in the first innings in Perth and the immediate typical overreaction was to hail him immediately as a hero and virtually the saviour of English cricket. After that he only managed to get another 3 wickets and was battered about. He'll make quite a bowler one day but I don't think he can be considered the difference between the teams in the first two tests.
Well done Australia, its been a virtuoso performance and with any luck you will have shocked England into fundamental changes in structure and mindset so that 2009 is as good a series as 2005. Let's just stop looking for excuses!
Complain about this postThe Aussie team that has just completed the whitewash job has helped to highlight a major flaw in the English cricketing set-up. The State Matches last four days which is a much more useful grounding for future Test players whereas the county treasurers in England want more ground-filling events like the 50,40,20-over 'Mickey Mouse' matches. County Championship matches could, in their view, be consigned to the scrapheap. Also the Treasurers are very pleased to be able to recruit a 'big name', or on occassions two or three, to keep the turnstiles ticking over. England has to go back to good honest hard graft and must ignore the 'result in a day while you watch' attitude of a certain TV channel. While Michael Vaughan saw it useful 'to be around' I wish I knew.
Complain about this postLooking forward to the next 成人快手 Sports Personalities of the Year Awards.
Team of the year
Englands Ashes Test Team!
What a difference a couple of years can make!
Complain about this post"A National Disgrace!"
Complain about this postIts a pity in a way the Ashes arent played every yr if not for the very lop-sided games us Aussies have to put up with but just to hear Aggers and our own Kerry O'keefe talk bout the match in progress .Fair dinkum you two would be worth the admission price just to go n sit listen to .. as of your team ..least said the better .
Complain about this postI watched David Graveny and a few has beens (Gough, Cork, Ali) at the HK cricket 6's in November 2006. They were disinterested. A year before I had shook Mr Graveny's hand and thanked him for winning the Ashes.
The people are not right anymore and with time and the right attitude things can be restored - Lord McLaurin made English cricket what it was in 2005 - it needs another leader and a bit of fear to bring the balance back again. Quality time and Comfort zones are for wimps.
Complain about this postThe way that we have lost all the test matches
Complain about this postis terrible, there appeared to be a lack of commitment on some players part.
The first mistake was making Flinty captain he went the same way as the "Great Both" you can't
burden match winning players with lots of extra pressure then expect them to bowl,bat and field
to a high standard.I believe that those sort of players need to be a free spirit, when they enjoy
themselves they benefit the team.
I also believe that we should have a manager
just like a football team who picks the side,picks the squad, and if the results don't happen get sacvked, that way we get rid of the enthusiastic
amatuers out of our national team affairs.
The truth is we could on for hours asking all sorts of questions but it all boils down to the fact
that (a) we weren't good enough and (b) weren't
professtional enough.
P.S. not looking forward to the summer.
It was obvious that Australia would win back the ashes after the euphoria in 2005. English cricket got carried away in 2005 and stopped thinking which leads to bad organization and preparation and inevitably lacked the desire to and the vision to win. And that is down to the man at the top. It is time to look for a new face as coach and a new direction.
Complain about this postAll credit to the Aussies they learnt from that defeat and had done their homework.
Mostly agree with you Aggers but really....was there any other result...on home soil?
On paper the Aussies are chock full of world greats....this is a young England team. Form going into the Ashes was fair at best for England, and unstoppable for Australia. As a Pom in Oz I've witnessed many, many whitewashes in the last 6 years I've been here. Aside from India a few years ago, this was one of the better tussles I've seen. England really had their moments. Every other team in the world would also have been whitewashed I believe.
Despite the ungracious claims of some Australians on this board, England fully deserved the '05 win (bad decisions for both sides), and if anything the the final scoreline flattered Australia (what would they have done without Warne?)...England tried to throw it away on several occasions.
Comments such as this being the worst ever English team are pathetic. They would have competetive with any other team but Australia....learn from it! Move on! Sacking Fletcher won't help one bit. Lauded in '05, the man doesn't become a bad coach overnight.
I don't remember seeing Oz play better as a team (backed up some of Ponting's comments). Simply brilliant. Well done!
Complain about this post'Freddie Five-O' (as a new nickname) - incentive enough to challenge for the 'five' to be the other way round in 2009! Australia gave away the 2005 Ashes as much as England won it. A lesson in itself, but a lesson learnt by Australia.
Complain about this postJonathan Agnew essentially highlights two issues to explain England's disastrous Ashes sojourn - lack of adequate preparedness and player discipline.
Both are very valid and aptly raised. But, in my view, there are two other key issues he hasn't touched upon - complacency following the 2005 Ashes win, and an obvious unwillingness to accept reality.
England were on a roll following their series victories against WI, NZ, SA and the Ashes win in 2005 was the icing on the cake. However, in the euphoria that followed (victory parades, champagne parties, MBEs) some stark realities were forgotten, or perhaps consciously ignored.
Firstly that all the series wins prior to the Ashes were against teams which, at that time, were in the bottom half of the ICC rankings.
Secondly, the Ashes itself was a pretty close thing, and two, if not three, matches could easily have gone the other way.
Thirdly, that in the following three series against PK, IN, and SL, England's true calibre was shown up, and injuries notwithstanding, the overall performances were uninspiring, to say the least.
All this, however, plus the pathetic showing in virtually every ODI tournament since 2005, was brushed aside using the argument that "the Ashes are the only important thing".
Sadly, to the unbiased cricket enthusiast, the writing was on the wall for some time now, and the whitewash comes as no surprise.
Complain about this post"Where should the English players drop off those MBE's?"
The MCG will be just fine.
Complain about this postThe general consesus seems to be that England played poorly. The truth is, England played as well as Australia let them. I think most of you should take your blinkers off and concede just what a great Australian team this is. 5-0 was terrific. I, like many others, weren't interested in watching a contest - we just wanted to watch the Aussies thrash the Poms. We did so, easily.
Complain about this postAgree with Aggers sentiment - it's a little embarassing that 2005 was met with such a celebration of what it's now clear was mediocrity. I was out in Melbourne when the "family section" of the tour was in full swing, and it seemed like the players were part of a busmans holiday. Given that the Australians man-for-man are a better set of players, with some of the best ever...realistically England were going to have to out-prepare and out-fight them to have a chance. Neither of which England either appreciated or followed through on. The Australians responded to the loss in 2005 like the best winners do - they observed the pain of defeat and vowed to never let that happen again. It will be interesting to see whether there is the stomach/ desire within the ECB and the players to not be contented losers when 2009 comes around. I doubt they will respond the way the Australians did in 2005...but i hope that they do.
Complain about this postNonetheless there are some good players around - many of whom were on this trip. Keen to see Ed Joyce get into the side as his mentality is akin to the best of the Australians - his talent is undoubtable, but his work ethic and desire is even more outstanding but sadly untested at the highest level. That ethic ironically is borne out of having to struggle harder and from less crafted beginnings than the rest of the England crew...try learning your cricket in Ireland - you make your own skill/ luck/ desire.
This was pitiful but predictable. My partner work me up this morning and said its cricket dave!! I said look we would not have lasted till lunch, oh dear how predictable or what!! This team has been undone by the psychology of Australia and their complete focus on winning, they took the loss as an national afront, they had to put it right and simply focused on that. We wrote biographies, partied, got pictures in Hello magazine and became celebs - what a total waste. Guys failures do not stay celebs, they become also rans. Do the decent thing hand back your MBEs, try and win them back in 2009. This was my lowest point in 35 years of watching cricket, I have never seen such an abject group of people.
Complain about this postMany of the comments here are absolutely correct.
The cricket team, especially Flintoff need to stop the talk and cease to continue say how they are going to bounce back (as they have done all tour) and actually just go out and do it.
Complain about this postEngland approached this tour with a supercillious attitude and took players along who were not fit physically and mentally and it has come back and bit them on the bum big style - GOOD.
One of the most important things when any team goes on tour is team spirit and the bonding of said team, this never happened with this team and as for the debacle on Christmas day where some players went and did their own thing with their families absolutely ludicrous.
England need to address the basics and the fans need to stop kidding themselves
Complain about this postAgree with all you say Jonathan.
1 - Its a job if everybody who got depressed at the thought of going to work quit and leave the whole world wouold be up the creek. So if you cant hack it stay at home in the first place.
2 - Stuff going to see Kylie and Elton John and co and do some more bloody practicing instead. Was Jones in the team so we could read what he had for his breakfast in the free paper? Pick players on form Read and Monty had to be in from the word go.
Finally Anderson just is not good enough at this level. Bowled like Dizzy did for Austrailia in the last tour. We would have been better served having someone like Dalrymple in hey he might not get a wicket but he is a better batsman than most of the team from what I saw.
However well done Austrailia when you lose you have to take it on the chin and England fans have plenty of experience at that in all the games we invented.
Complain about this postThe Ashes - England were beaten by a combination of experience, application and,more importantly, a bloody-minded determination and grit shown by the Aussie team. I dont think that there is a huge difference in the talent, but,significantly, the 'gutsy' English batsmen (Pieterson and Collingwood and Bell) top the English
averages.
Sure, the young team need a bit of time to develop, but the character of the individual is at least as important as the talent and experience.
Complain about this postWhy is it that everybody else can see where the problems have been on this tour except for those responsible for it?
Its all very well Duncan Fletcher saying that we will sit down and review the processes and look at where we went wrong but I can't see what good this is going to do. The people that are going to carry out this review are the same people that are responsible for the poor preparation, poor selection judgements and poor management of the tour as a whole.
Like JA says if this is going to be carried out it should be done in public so we everybody knows what has been asked and what the solutions are. Although i doubt very much that this will happen. We obviously didn't learn from last winters tours where we went into the Tests underprepared and with some players only half fit so why will it be any different this year?
Complain about this postIt's hard to see where Australia's supremacy ends and England's ineptitude begins.
I think it might be the way Australia always had a couple of players who would save them if they were in trouble. England always hoped a couple of players would get them out of the trouble they were already in.
Complain about this postWhat can one say? Offer Ricky Pontin tons of money and ask him to coach England for the next Ashes series.
Australia were never troubled, never frightened, and even when England placed a hugh score, the Aussies never look worried or concerned.
England lacked passion and presence. Australia attacked both in bat and field, and the days of yesteryear with England prancing around London are a far distant memory.
Duncan Fletcher and Freddie, what went wrong?
Complain about this postFuther to Jonathan's blog above, one thing we cannot loose focus of is that the England side is a relatively young side. The Warnes, McGraths & Langers of this world are all mid 30's and retiring at their peaks. We all know that there were a number of issues surrounding why we didnt perform from preparation through to squad selection. The Ashes have gone and that's that. We need to regroup, probably make some changes from the top down and focus on the future of English Cricket. If the Ashes tour was a school report it would have said 'easily distracted, must do better'
Complain about this postHaving listened to Fletcher and Flintoff I'm sure I watched a different series to them ! Thet say we were competetive and that this side can grow.We didn't have one player that would make the aussie side . The ECB need to get tough and get rid of the old boy network . Get some eager , hungry and angry men in this team .
Complain about this postWhilst this a sad day for English Cricket, it should be reflected that we were beaten by a fully committed and professional Australian side, in comparison, some of our play was sloppy, at best. I hope that the England management do not rely on the retirement of Warne and McGrath, to assume that we will beat future Australian teams. On the positive side, we have a nucleous of young quality players, and it was pleasing to see Panesar prove he has the ability to be a match winner, on any continent. It was also good to have a top quality 'keeper, in Read, behind the stumps, despite his poor batting, which must give confidence to the bowlers.
Complain about this postok ok, a humiliating whitewash, and the knives are out. Dont lets forget that we were playing a good side, to say the least, with one of the best if not the best spinner of all time along with a pace man out of the top draw. Oh and there are a couple of batsmen in there as well.
Complain about this postAs long as those who need to learn from the experience it will never be a total disaster.
Chin up. Be prepared. Roll on 2009 and a truly competitive series.
OZ again in 2009!
Complain about this postI do agree with much of what you have written above but Troy Cooley wasn't poached by Australia. I understand from the media that England were not prepared to let him sign a two year contract and so he walked, thus demonstrating yet again the unbelievable shortsightedness of the ECB board. This brings me to another point; for England to recover the Ashes we not only have to adopt a similar apporach to the one taken by Australia at the end of 2005 but also look hard and long at the people organising English cricket.I am deeply alarmed at listening to some of the things being quoted from the likes of Dave Morgan and Tom Graveney, who both seem to be under the misguided opinion that we lost becaue we missed a couple of key players and had a young inexperienced team. I believe like you that we were totally unprepared, Harmison's bowling was a disgrace for most of the tour and Strauss was completely out of touch. The whole matter of families and girlfirends on tour, needs to be looked at seriously. Finally the selection and captaincy are obvious areas which need to be immediately addressed althoug I understand that Flintoff is flying home due to his ankle, which will save a lot of embarrassment all round.
Complain about this postOne has to sympathize with the likes of Plunkett who has not bowled a ball in anger for the whole Test series and is now probably expected to step into the One Day side.
We need radical change and not polite tinkering at the top to turn things around.Fletcher has done very well for the most part but I think he has finally run out of ideas and should be allowed to go with dignity due to his excellent record.
A disappointing series but still worth polling who people think was England's best player in the series.
Complain about this postMy vote goes to Ian Bell who at least managed four 50s and took some catches in the field. (didn't he also take the most catches in the triumphant 2005 series?) Had more of the top order been more consistent and posted similar scores more regularly it could have been different. Cheers Ian - a pity you couln't get that elusive ton.
True, all too true!
Complain about this postThis total complete humiliating thrashing is not only fully deserved but it could not have been any other way.
The Aussies lost in 2005 because they were caught asleep and England bowled really well. England deserved to win and a fight to the wire was no more than they deserved as far as the ease of victory.
Yet almost immediately they were talking of world domination. Then it was off to get their MBE's. This was infuriatingly inappropriate and sowed the seeds for their downfall. Fact is although they bowled well in 2005 they were lucky to win. Yet they acted as if they were a genuinely superior team to the Aussies.
I can already assure you that the 2009 attempt to regain the Ashes is already lost. I say this because even the magnitude of this defeat still has not shaken them out of their platitudinous slumber, and if a 5-0 thrashing coupled with the occasional record like 'the highest declared 1st innings score to lose a match in Test cricket. Ever.' did not wake them up then nothing will.
I present to you as a single humble microcosmic example, Anderson's comments about the Colly/Warne sledging...
"James Anderson yesterday described Collingwood as the best sledger in the team, but the key to the art is to pick the right target, usually a player lacking confidence." Yep that's Warnie alright, shy and fragile personality who has no belief in his own ability, easily crumbles under the slightest pressure.
What a fool. What a foolish comment. The right to safely sledge can only be earned with years of excellent cricket under intense pressure. Trying to sledge without having earned it only puts more pressure on oneself and is therefore not only futile but self destructive.
Complain about this postI love cricket but today I just feel an overwhelming sadness at the way we have capitulated in this series, albeit to a superior side.
Our bowlers seemed incapable of bowling the right length throughout the whole series and it reminded me so much of the past when cricketers such as Peter Martin were called in to toss another 4 ball at an Australian batsman. That combined with a muddled selection policy, batsman who can't concentrate and frankly, a captain out of his depth (and injusred to boot) has led this this humiliation.
Despite everyones feelings today, we MUST ensure that this series is looked upon not so much as a failure, but an enormous series of lessons learned. If we don't, we will sink back into cricket obscurity.
Complain about this postWhat depressed me is the way Englands batsman threw their wickets away time and time again with soft dismissals. Collingwood is not a top order batsman, yes he got a double century but he is not a world class number 4/5. The bowlers also looked incapable of putting 6 balls on the money and were lost for ideas - I am surprised they even had a plan of attack in their dressing room - it certainly went AWOL.
Complain about this postThe application was not there and Australia wanted it more - all credit to them against a very poor England side.
England are an absolute disgrace and don't bother coming back to England.
Complain about this postDear Johnathon,
Well, there we are then. A 5-0 drubbing by Australia to win this series of the Ashes.
I am disappointed to say the least but I take some cheer from having listened to the series in the car as I travel to work. The TMS commentary has kept me from going spare in the usual traffic on the M25.
Geoffrey has been his usual outspoken self and it has been nice to listen to some of the Australia commentators and their views.
It is quite an odd thing that as we listen you to all, you become alomst as freinds to us the listeners.
I have to say, well done on making your comments on Chris Read. The Jones / Read debate got quite vociferous and almost spiteful at times on the old TMS message board. I think you are right in that Read is no good enough to step up to Test level cricket. I did see him keep down at Canterbury in the Pakistan warm-up game against England A and he did score 150. His glove work was good and he is an agile keeper, but I think he is out of his depth as a batsman in the full test side.
I felt that in the absence of a skip then someone like Adams from Sussex could have been seconded not for his playing ability but because he knows the job of captaincy. And that is quite a tough statement to make being a Kent man myself.
On the batting line up. I have commented that a couple of experienced campaigners, Mark Butcher being one, could have been in the side. The balance between experience and youth was not right in the side.
Bowling. I am not sure where to start. We know our ranks are depleted but the quality of the reserves is not good enough to step in as replacements. I generalise here and don't think it is right to name names. I do think that the quality of coaching needs to improve and feel we can learn a lot from Glen McGrath and his metronomic style. Line and length as Geoffrey would say.
Coaching. Developing our coaches is paramount. The ECB must invest in coaches and facilities. Is there a chance that a coaches acadamy can be set up? Is the ECB that forward thinking? I am not sure.
Well, I have to sign off now - time for some work. Hope to see / listen to you again soon.
Yours sincerely,
Graeme Blundell.
Complain about this postRegarding a 5 game soccer series: it seems there are some with short memories here!
Complain about this postSadly, right to the end, England, and their acting captain, have been in denial that anything is wrong. Flintoff has talked much about the team showing character. However, talk is cheap. These are highly paid professionals who want to live the high life. Leave the family and significant others at home. Be professional - do not bring back an injured player back into the side because he is a mate - it gives the wrong message to the man 'in post' that they are only in the side as second best. It is time for Fletcher to go - he has done much for the side but new ideas are needed now. Flintoff should do the honourable thing and resign the acting captaincy. That is part of leadership - admitting when you have failed.
Complain about this postIf Andrew Flintoff really believes they tried their best, then we really are in deep trouble.
Complain about this postThis series was an embarrassment from ball one.
I was at the Gabba for the first ball of the series, and the crowd laughed at Harmison's pathetic delivery. I had looked forward to that moment for a long time, and I can tell you, it hurt.
I can't see one lesson that had been learned by any England player. Pietersen's final wicket was a carbon copy of his dismissal in the First Test... he played well all the previous afternoon, then gifted a catch in the first over of the next day. That's RUBBISH!
One word will sum up this England team - pathetic.
Can't wait for the Series DVD to be rushed out... what? No plans for one? There's a surprise.
Not one word of apology from the captain or the coach, or indeed any of the players, to the fans (especially those who spent considerable sums of money travelling to Australia). Not one "mea culpa". Pathetic.
Or is Freddy right, and everybody tried their utmost, 100% of the time, and were "just beaten by a better team"?
Complain about this postHarmison has proved a liability on tour. In an interview recently he said something like we would rather be at home than playing australia.
I want him out I dont want people like that representing my country, im sure he brings the rest of the squad down with his moaning.
I want strong characters with a real hunger, desire, drive and ambition in the team not weak minded wimps like HArmison.
Complain about this postWhan has England really dominated the Aussies. Probably 50 years back. So, don't dream of anything different for the next 50 years.
Complain about this postJonathan, I'm afraid nothing will change. A couple of home Test victories against lesser opposition will just paper over the cracks in the team. Too much bureaucracy in cricket and the talent in the country is thus being overlooked.
Complain about this postThis series simply underlined the fact that when the Aussies lose, it is usually a one off. I still believe England are a good test side and have the talent for the future. As usual, it is the media and the fans who expect the world out of them - they need to wise up to the fact that England are not world beaters, and be reasonable in their expectations.
Complain about this postIt's difficult to blame the players for our truly appalling defence of the Ashes because they have been playing under the most extreme pressure since Brisbane and were clearly grossly underprepared.
We regained the Ashes by dint of superhuman team effort and tremendous individual performances, even then it was a close run thing.
Why oh why did we go into the tour with several players who are only half fit physically and mentally.
Why oh why did we not have several proper competitive 4-day warm-up games to get our bowlers operating at t heir peak perfornance. By all accounts Harmison bowled really well in the second innings at Sydney!!! Didn't notice that the Aussie bowlers started the series at less than 100%.
The Aussies are a great side and I feel it is grossly insulting to them that we did not appear to take the Ashes seriously enough.
Sadly I feel the selectors let us down badly and should be replaced. The administrators should take a hard look at tour schedules to ensure that our touring sides get proper 1st class preparation next time round. Finally we must pick a fit squad...better to have inexperienced, highly motivated young players than half-fit old lags!!
Complain about this postHave managed to resist but must now have my say having heard Freddies post-match interview.
Apparently all this doom and gloom is a waste of time. England played well (presumably you don't count the number of times batsmen threw away wickets hooking, chasing wide balls - KP this morning was criminal - or getting run out not standing behind your crease, or getting stumped by going too far forward after Warner with one over of the day left, or getting caught in the deep with the side in trouble or not backing up properly to effect run outs, or not being able to consistantly bowl line and length). We showed lots of ability (!) and character (Second innings' in Adelaide, Sydney anyone?). And we have a good summer of test cricket to look forward to (in Freddies mind, the World cup is obviously not happening, or is at least not something to look forward to - OK maybe he has a point there).
Bottom line is that we have been hammered in 5/5 tests showing poor preparation and amateurish play. We have a good 1st XI, no strength in depth (Mahmood and Anderson look average and inconsistent, last summer Plunkett, Tremlett and Broad we also in squads - two of these need to stand up and make themselves un-droppable). We need a solid opening partnership - Cook has looked out of his depth opening this series and there has been no replacement available - this gives batsmen 3-5/6 a chance. We need players who are fit and have been playing - I'd take a slightly worse batsman or bowler with runs/overs under their belt than a guy who hasn't played for 12 months (Freddie, Giles). The 'keeper and the tail keep getting hammer for not scoring runs but failures by 1-6 have put the Aussies on the attack and those boys under too much pressure.
It's been a disaster from start to finish and Aggers is absolutely right - the planning of this tour needs to taken apart in all aspects, scheduling, selection, training/practice matches, to give the XI guys who go out into the middle the best chance of putting in a performance.
Complain about this postBonding ? have these players never met before, or played together previously? Are performance, endeavour, discipline dependent on bonding? I was under the impression that they are professional, dedicated cricketers, but it would appear that they need more than skill and application to succeed.
Under-prepared ? maybe - however I thought that cricket was a full-time job, and that they had played plenty of cricket (including together) not long before they arrived in Oz. I believe that they had played as much cricket as the Australian's in the lead-up. And how could "under-preparation" account for losing 5 tests?
Complain about this postAggers - spot on about pandering to the players. The problem with cricket and this sporting country in general is that there is no commitment to your country unless there is some reward involved. The Aussies don't want MBE's or open bus tours they just dream of wearing that baggy green cap. This tour was encapsulated for me with the missed run out of Warne by mahmood - he had just given up. Let's forget this sorry tour and SERIOUSLY shake up English cricket from the top down.
Complain about this postIt's quite plain and simple to me. When big business buys 'the rights' to televise national sporting events such as this, it deprives the majority of people access to it. How can younger generations get enthused and then involved in major sports such as cricket and rugby if they have to pay to watch thier national teams play in international events - many families simply cannot afford to do so. The so-called 'right' to watch a national sporting event should lie firmly in the hands of the British people and it should be free - what the devil do we pay a TV license for - to watch the Weakest bloody Link everday?! It saddens me and many others that we have sold a major element of our culture so that the priviledged few can watch it. This is simply not acceptable and until we give back to the Bristish people what is rightly theirs, then poor sporting performances like the ashes cricket and rubgy fiascos will perpetuate in the future.
Complain about this post"England win something, then a short while later capitulate spectacularly."
Please apply this to everything since the late 1800's, especially sport.
So why, is everyone suprised and getting so upset about it? It happens decade in, decade out. Whats more, we all knew it was going to happen, and the same will happen after the rubgy world cup.
All of you posting comments about feeling short changed and disgusted about this latest miserable performance please remember it is the English way and to have followed up one excellent sporting performance with another would have meant breaking a tradition that is centuries old.
Complain about this postI found the interview with Steve Harmison on Sky TV the other evening most bizarre. Her neither seems to have an appetite for playing cricket yet alone touring and playing for his country. AIf Mr Harmison, wishes to stay in the North East and be with his family, then he should apply for another job and let someone who values the chance of playing for their country do so. I agree with Jonathan Agnew, that there needs to be a move out of the comfort zone for a bunch of highly paid non performers, who would in the real world of work, would now be looking for other jobs having been dismissed for poor performance and failing to care!!
Complain about this postGreat entry Jonathan, preparation is often the key to any competition. Australia were the better side throughout. We should take lessons from our opponents in how they prepared and what they did in over coming their problems. Like you I fear for our the up and coming one day series and the World Cup.
Complain about this postI wonder if John Buchanan has made every Aussie player watch the Trafalagar square parade night after night.
Complain about this postI wonder if John Buchanan has made every Aussie player watch the Trafalagar square parade night after night.
Complain about this postIt is over-simplistic to say that Australia "had the better players". In the individual performances (highest innings, best bowling performance, wk dismissals) England players took the honours. What England lacked was team ability in depth. Australian players showed on several occasions that throwing your wicket away and poor shot selection are not subject to an English monopoly; this, in spite of the decidedly "curate's egg" consistency of the English bowlers. However, even though the Australians found themselves in a dire predicament from time to time, they could draw on reserves to rally and compensate for earlier failures. From the English point of view we lacked good, aggressive captaincy - setting defensive fields the moment an Australian "slogger" comes to the crease and hits out is a totally wrong strategy. We were also let down by a lack of preparation as well as an attempt to create silk purses out of sows'ears. I am sure that the English management recognised that an established wk-batsman like Adam Gilchrist is a huge strength in the Australian side. They understandably craved a similar advantage, but then made the wrong choices, mainly due to the unavailability of resources.
I hope that England takes a good hard look at itself and the state of the game in our country and draws thje required conclusions.
Complain about this postJA is spot on in his remarks. As I wrote yesterday - in inevitable anticipation of the predictable result - will lessons be identified and learnt? I have little optimism.
Knowing tha the Aussies would be ruthlessly determined to win back the Ashes why did we not prepare equally professionlly and focused? The arrangements made to meet this need beggar belief. We got what we deserved.
If the players are not going to be 100% focused and committed on the task -as JA wrote(finally) - do not tour. They are being pathetic to say theay cannot tour without them (they do not join servicemen on operations - and the Ashes series should be treated as like) Accompanying families girlfriends? Join after the series is won (or lost!).
And who is going to accept responsibility? Flintoff - probably not - he did his best but clearly showed that he should not be captain. For starters FLETCHER AND GRAVENEY shobe sacked.
Finally as a sign of team contrition return all those MBEs
Complain about this postCouldnt agree with your more Aggers.
What struck me most about the last 6 weeks compared to 2005 was the lack of sustained intensity in the England team.
I was living in Perth during the 2005 series, and my Aussie mates were impressed/shocked how the English bounced back from lords to really harry them out of that series.
The England management and team were complacent going into the series and didnt respect the situation they were going into down under.
The ICC tournament in India was an excuse. If they wanted these Ashes enough, they should have pulled the test players from the ODI team and spent the 3 weeks preparing down under.
Complain about this postI bet Geoffrey's mother would have fared better in Australia than any of our players did! Possibly a double century and figures of 20-0.
Complain about this postI agree with Agger's comments about WAGs and commitment on tour, but the main reason we lost this series so badly was the batting. To win the series was always going to be a struggle with so many key players from 2005 either not there or not match fit. But to collapse so regularly had to be the result of great bowling by Australia (it wasn't that good) or poor batting by England. In 2005 only Vaughan and Trescothick had the temperament and technique to make big hundreds regularly. It didn't really matter whether they did or not, the important thing is that there was someone there who knew how. The only current England batters with the ability to grind out long innings are Bell and Cook, and they need lots more practice. Strauss is hopelessly unable to graft and should be dropped. But, given the current England setup, he won't be.
Complain about this posti call on english supporters to refuse to come to australia in 2010, if the format for the tour is not changed..........we demand 1 month to acclimitise and minimum three 4 day first class games to warm up........unless england give themselves the best chance after this debacle, what is the fan to conclude?
Complain about this postLets see how many books the English team publish after this debacle. Too many living on past glories. The heroes of 2005 will now be remembered for taking an embarassing mauling.
Complain about this postI read one headline this morning with Flintoff stating that he was 'optimistic for 2009'. Pray, where does this new found optimism derive from after such total humiliation? I hope that all who read your 'Wake-Up Call' comments appreciate that your observations and those of many others are generated by genuine English patriotism. There must be immediate changes(hopefully resignations) within the management of English cricket, Fletcher and Graveney now, with the captaincy situation to be reviewed at the earliest opportunity. I firmly believe that until this happens the physcological damage caused during this tour debacle cannot begin to heal.
Complain about this postThis is a very well written comment, I agree totaly with it. We have to look forward and not dwell on this thrashing by the Aussies. Maybe bring in new players so there is competiton for spaces in the England side. Teach some mental toughness that England seem to lack, but I am sure there are other players out there that could to the job.
Maybe somebody like Botham or Alan Lamb to become the new coach these ex players know only one way and thats winning not losing.
We can prepare just like the Aussies did when they lost to us, start now and get the ashes Back.
Complain about this postI was a quarter of a way through my half pint at the sports bar in Haymarket and it was all over and had to go home. Oh dear.
If Robert Key had been playing we would have won 5-0
Complain about this postI am in Sydney and went to the previous match in Melnbourne too. The body language of the players particularly Pietersen and Harmison showed it all.
All our players are singularly good enough but we cannot compete with the Australian win ethic.
Not one single player can come away from this Ashes series saying they have done well.
As a footnote Rudi Kuertzen did more to bring forward the inevitable TV umpire in just one game at the MCG. His decisions were woeful.
Complain about this postChastening is a kind word to use - humiliating might be a better fit. It all started by inadequate thought prior to squad selection. Don't take match unfit players anywhere. Flintoff himself is hardly fit; they make him Captain (untried). Graveny should resign. Next use Strauss and Vaughan, if he is fit. Find a Troy Cooley replacement who can succeed. Bring some discipline back into the dressing room - give each player a card which says if you give your wicket away - no match fee.
Complain about this postBuild a proper competive selection and playing system that never allows humiliation again.
Thing is Jonathon, you use all this hard talk in your reports but I can guarentee the instant you see anyone from the ECB or PCA you're back to shining their shoes so as not to fall out with anyone.
Us normal england fans are in no position to talk to these people and castigate them, they're not interested, but someone like you can make a difference on our behalf and actually tell them how stupid they are to their face and what you and countless other ex-pros think needs to be done, the question is whether you will forgo the free lunches and other perks you no doubt get for the good of the england team and do all you can to get things changed.
Will YOU (and others like Gatting and Hussain) rise to this occasion, or will you give up as meekly as the current team?
Complain about this postYou all seem to forget that the West Indies also won 5-0 on English soil.
Complain about this postaggers i just wont to say how much i enjoy the abc comentary and i think you would be one of the most unbiased commentator i have ever listen to and i think what andy and the boys did for langer was very special i am a trucker driver in brisbane and i listen to most of the comentary job well done to all the team bill
Complain about this postI feel really sorry for the England supporters who have paid a lot of money to go and see a pile of crap, oh sorry,sometimes the games finished early and they saw nothing at all, at least there's the weather . The England set up and players need to learn now that this is a well paid JOB, so leave the family etc behind until the JOB is done, as a paying cricket supporter,this tour is an insult to my money.
Complain about this postWe MUST build a team that wants to and will win matches and tours both home and away, who are fit and ready to play, players who WANT to be there,if they can't hack that, then go and enjoy safe mediocrity, not the cauldron of WANTING to play and beat allcomers as part of a team,Look at how Australia prepared as a team, worked as a team, they wanted to WIN as a team.
Further to Fred (130) - didn't Pieterson try to call Symonds a prefessional fielder before he went on to score 150+ when the game was in the balance? Sledging can always turn around and bite you on the bum.
Complain about this postAs always Jonathan you are on the money, the Authorities are more interested in meaningless One Day Triangular Series after the tests than proper preparation matches before them.
Also keep the families away, this is not a holiday for gods sake, it is a job of work! Its no different than the WAGS and the footballers, and look how bad they are!
Complain about this postJonathon,
Complain about this postIt has been a pleasure hearing your commentary over here this summer. I wish I could say it has been a pleasure to listen and watch the performance of the England team, but sadly for those of us wishing for a close and entertaining series, it has not. Glen McGrath predicted a 5-0 whitewash well before the start of the series and it did not come across as arrogance this time, but it struck me then that the aussies were really "up for it" and were desperate to regain the ashes they had lost the previous winter. There was so much grit and determination, that England had to be a much better side than what many of us suspected. The series was heavily hyped, due to the previous result as finally it was possible, the aussies would be tested after series upon series of one sided competition with the Poms.
Sometimes I wonder whether it is simply due to lack of national pride in England, that causes sporting failure at the highest level. Perhaps times have changed, but as a kid growing up in the UK, we never sang the national anthem, never saluted the flag and were never drilled to be proud of our country and want to represent it.
Bringing my own children up here is a very different story. Most persons are proud to be aussies (I am proud to have had "the operation") and we love singing Advance Australia Fair, flying the Southern Cross and everyone wants the national sides to do well (and everyone hates losing so much that they do something about it on the occasions when it happens. We love our heroes and forgive and sometimes forget their off field antics. Politicians openly support the national teams.....vast sums of money is invested in developing sport and not just paying prima-donas, huge salaries for little in return. The number of volunteers in sport here is phenomenal. In the district where I currently reside, our local association has over 3000 registered coaches, managers and other support persons at a local, grass roots level, and they are provided training and attend coaching courses and the like.
English sport could learn a lot from observing just a fraction of what goes on here. The socceroos have finally cracked the big time after years of being given a raw deal by Fifa and they seized their opportunity at the last world cup and gave a great fighting display.......way superior to the woeful displays from the glamour of the English team.
I love living here, it is my place of choice. I still love the history of the UK, all the old buildings and stories from a colourful past.........but does the whole country have to be history?
I have never been so ashamed to sit and watch us capitulate so easily in every test.
Even the fantastic "Barmy Army" have turned into the "Tartan Army" ie: knowing they are supporting losers but enjoying themselves anyway.
English cricket is at an all time low, and this only 18 months after arguably the best ever ashes win. My concern though, is that I don't believe the players and coaching staff believe this. All I've heard throughout this disastrous tour is how the team have picked positves out of a defeat, only to follow it with another humiliating defeat.
The present England set-up is simply not acceptable, we need a strong coach & captain who will not bow down to making these tours into a family & friends holiday outing, they need reminding that they represent their country......and that's a serious business.
Complain about this postAs an Anglo Australian I can see why the English fail so much, In Australia it is the ambition of every cricketer to play for their Country, they are dedicated and unlike the English they put the game first and hate loosing. in short England treat the game as a way to an extended Holiday.In Australia a test team place is contested for at every state match by every player, In a country populated at over three times the size of Australia the UK should be disgusted at this latest showing. I know I am.
Complain about this postLet the people of England learn not to get carried away like we did in 2005 and say this could be the best test side in years to come.
Please keep things in perspective. Please Please Please don't rush to give honours. There is no value at all now.
The signs were very clear even before the ashes started but we were just kidding our selves and saying we will regain. Any sensible person could see that England were going to get slaughtered.
God Luck. Shut the mouths and let the cricket do the talking. We should not belong to the NATO.(No action talk only)
Bye
Complain about this postReka
I'm afraid the the England team have been wonderful examples of the national attitude to all sport; its the taking part that counts not the winning. As long as we maintain that attitude then all our sports teams will suffer continued disasters.
Complain about this postIts all about winning, if you're not winning then you are losers. We must develop a national mind set that we play to win, at all times, no matter what the cost. Schools teach that competion is a bad thing as some of them lose and feel very upset. Good, thats what its all about for goodness sake! Find some guts and some sense of pride and go out there to win and murder the opposition, it might just avoid another whitewash.
So waking up this morning English Cricket and more generally English Sport finds itself in a familiar position; having being totally thrashed, humiliated call it what you want and all the usual excuses are all ready flying around.
Blame the management.
Blame the English cricket structure and system.
Blame the preparation.
even Blame the bunch of 11 "Celebrities" on the field wearing the 3 lions symbolising the good old British values of passion, pride and empty trophy cabinets.
So what have these values produced in the last 100 years of the major team sports:
1. 1 World cup football
2. 1 World cup rugby
Can any passionate English fan of whatever team sport they support say this record is nothing short of disgraceful if you take into consideration that England has a larger player pool and much more developed infrastructure than most of its rivals in these sports.
Wouydn't it be obvious to say that there seems to be a common problem across all these sports ?
I think there is and it is caused by 2 major reasons:
1. The first one is you and myself the British sporting public celebrating sporting mediocrity and being statisfied with one off acheivements.
Wayne Rooney is not a football great. He has talent yes but has he won anything yet no. Stop believing or even reading the headlines (which should stop them being printed.) Ignore Mr Rooney and Coleen. Let him realise he is still only a kid and needs to prove himself over a ten year period (including winning international trophies)before anything near the word great can be associated with his name. Not to do so is to insult the true greats ;the 1966 side who did actually achieve some that can be called world class.
The same goes for Mr Flintoff. He is another with talent but has not achieved anything near the true great all rounders. Even at the present time Shaun Pollock and Jacque Kallis records make his pale into insignificance.
So we must stop lavishing these so called icons and start expecting from them. The more they achieve the more we must expect and if they do evolve into true legends they will deliver like Shane Warne and Glen Mcgrath consistently do.
I think this change in sporting culture will assist with the second factor:
2. The English sporting mentality. I can tell you from being of Antipodean origin that deep down all cricket and rugby lovers from that part of the world know the biggest weapon we have against English teams is being able to consistently win the mental battle against them. Generally although there have been exceptions (Martin Johnson for one) the word winning has become this over complicated. elaborate almost scientific theory that can only be be solved by having a ward full of coaching staff. Just by listening to regular rugby pundits Dewi Morris and Stuart Barnes dissect a rugby game I feel like going back to tertiary education to feel a more adequate rugby supporter.
Do you think the 2003 World Cup success was founded on this? Was it not more to do with the almost fortunate timing of having a bunch of players on the field who knew how to do the basics correctly, believed in themselves and team mates and had a leader who understood all of this. Just to prove this point look at what all of Coach Woodwards wonderful ground breaking scientific coaching methods did for the 2005 Lions team and Southampton FC.
The Ashes was not lost because of the management team, English cricket structure and system, preparation or even players.
It was lost by following the English sporting tradition and mentality of loosing.
Winning matches is achieved by applying simple sporting basics in a more successful and consistent manner than the opposition. To do this the players must have belief, mentality and skills superior to the opposition and realise sporting greatness is only achieved by applying these qualities day in and day out.
If these qualities are developed from a young age starting now here in England and with the natural advantages of large player pools and better infrastrusture the next 100 years should read a lot differently.
Complain about this postI must disagree concerning the players' families
It will not be possible to persuade players to tour regularly if they are away from their families. The only way is to allow families to visit.
Families are usually blamed when tours are lost. However, I do not think they were to blame for the lack of team spirit or discipline evident in this team.
In my view, the lack of team spirit was because some players felt partly excluded by manager and captain. Secondly, Flintoff was not the man for the captaincy. I suspect that, unlike Vaughan he shares Fletcher's faults of inflexibility, dogmatic approach and lack of imagination
The poor results themselves come about because of a variety of factors. Australia had by far the better side, and the lack of preparation was hardly conclusive.
Looking forward, I believe we will need to jetison from the side Jones, Read and Giles. Mahmood and Anderson must be sent back to the A side until they can bowl line and length and, in Mahmood's case, until his attitude improves.
Complain about this postAs a an interested 'sideliner' - I love cricket and am only interested in seeing class players - I have to say this England team was a joke.
I think the whole sledging thing is an even bigger joke. Who in the England team could even consider themselves to have the "right to safely sledge" ....."earned with years of excellent cricket"
What a load of rubbish. There should be no 'right' to sledge...and certainly not for any England player. Individual sledging is the fallback of weak individuals, Warne only uses it as part of his superiority, players with real class don't bother, their skill is sufficient.
As to MBEs - another joke, they should have the courage to hand them back. It also shows where the connections in Lords lie - part of the establishment - what sort of a society is England?
If they weren't contractually commited to the ODIs they should slink off.
Complain about this postThe England cricket team is simply a joke, and were lucky to win the last Ashes series in 2005 thanks to poor weather conditions.
How these players were awarded MBE's and voted Team of the Year for 成人快手 Sports Personality of the Year in 2005 is beyond me.
Those awards should have been given to Liverpool Football Club for their Uefa Champions League success in capturing their fifth European Cup. They did far more to deserve these accolades than the England cricket team. Defeating the likes of Juventus, Chelsea, and then AC Milan (coming back to win from 3-0 down at half time, in the final, as everyone knows) on their way to winning the competition.
It pains me to say that I see troubled times ahead for the team. I don't see England winning a single game in the upcoming ODI series, and I forsee a terrible World Cup ahead.
I think it's time changes are made immediately, from top (David Graveney and other selectors) to bottom (players such as Steve Harmison, whom is useless) to ensure a bright future for English cricket.
-Ian Smith, London (Arsenal supporter)
Complain about this postHit the nail on the head- Australia prepared for these ashes in they same manner in which we prepared in 2005. We have a good young side and we were thrashed by a well prepared angry Australian squad.
Complain about this postAggers,
No good can come out of this whitewash. Only lesson to learn is to not have open bus parardes, give out gongs and every player and coach writing a book about their famous Ashes victory. This was like raising a red flag at a bull to us Aussies.
England will not come back from this embarrassment for another decade.
Complain about this postNo excuses, in every department we were completely outplayed. There was absolutely no competition in the series and this 'marquee series' collapsed into an utter shambles for English cricket. Get Flintoff back to being an allrounder and find a captain for captaincy. Congratulations to the Aussies, the fight was over after round one.
Complain about this postCompetition - an old fashioned concept. The way things are with the current England team makes it almost impossible to bring in new talent and assess alternative selections. In other words the 1 XI are not under pressure from those on the fringes. This is not satisfactory. In the 5-0 debacle whilst the top six England batters did get, generally, reasonable starts, that fact remains that only two players had an average above 40. Australia by contrast had 8 with an average above 40. What was need was more matches against State sides with genuine competition for places. As it was Joyce, for example, had no real opportunity and yet both Marsh and Warne rate him highly. In short make the players fight for their places.
Complain about this postyes - what a great point England lost because their wives and children were with them and not because Australia were a much better team - and we had 4 number 11s and a number 9 in our bottom 5. Do you seriously believe that had they been unaccompanied by their wives they would have miraculously become good at batting (or bowling for that matter)?
Yes we were initially unprepared but were we undercooked in the 3rd 4th and 5th tests? - no.
For those that didn't start watching cricket until mid way through the summer of 2005 please do not post "why does Flintoff bat at 6" - as has been demonstrated in this series Flintoff cannot be relied upon to be one of 4 bowlers - hence we need 5. What we need are bowlers that can do the basics of line and length - look at what Stuart Clark has achieved - and bat a bit. We have the makings of a top six in our batting line up.
Finally just a word about attitude - people see winning teams running around clapping and showing great team spirit and they believe that that is why they are winning (this applies in many sports) - it's like saying that you have to have blond hair to be clever based on knowing a clever person that has blond hair. We simply weren't good enough - let's just face it.
Otherwise great article.
Complain about this postI despair at the level of comments being made. I would guess that those over reacting now did the same back in 2005 when we deservedly beat probably the best team that has ever existed.
Complain about this postFreddie Flintoff, Duncan Fletcher, Kevin Peterson, Andrew Staruss, Paul Collingwood, Steve Harminson, Michael Vaughan, Tony Blair, Margaret Thatcher, Winston Churchill, Mick Jagger, Tim Rice, Jeffrey Archer, Lord Nelson your boys took one hell of a beating!!
Complain about this postI was a quarter of a way through my half pint at the sports bar in Haymarket and it was all over and had to go home. Oh dear.
If Robert Key had been playing we would have won 5-0
Complain about this postThis is typical of English sports writers once England have lost. Mega-critical.
As an Aussie I love beating England, but it is not all doom and gloom for England. They were without 2 top batsmen (including their captain) and Simon Jones who tortured Australia's lefthanders in 2005. What if Australia had lost Hayden, Ponting and McGrath. In 2005 it was Australia who made bad selection decisions (Katich over Hussey) and has out of form bowlers (Gillespie and Kasperwicz), this time England had some out of form players and bad selections early on.
How will Australia go in 2009 without Hayden, Langer, McGrath, Warne, Martyn and Gilchrist.
Complain about this postMy advice is don't have inquiries, meetings and media witchhunts. Focus on 2 years preparation of your still young team for 2009
In Aggers and Boycotts post match analysis this morning, Boycott said that ex-England players like himself, Gooch, Gower and Botham have not been sought out for advice at any level not have been asked to help. Whilst this is deplorable, it is not surprising for there will be no public accountability by those administering the game for the 5-nil shambles, no published enquiry findings and the 'money men' will have still made a small fortune, and the team will still have those ghastly gongs.
Complain about this postFinally, any chance of Warney being invited to be the next coach? About as much as a snowball has of surviving hell!
Aggers,
I am sooo pleased that my mrspao said "no you are not paying to watch the cricket"!
This tour has been an embarrassment and I really hope that the selectors,coaches and the players learn from their mistakes after the complacency that seems to have set in since 2005.
What has happened to that competative edge that we had?
Do our players want the Ashes back enough to care?
I hope that everyone involved can at least be honest and shoulder their fair share of responsibilty and work towards the future. Its just a shame that there is a one day series and World Cup to get in the way of that process.
In the meantime thanks for your and your colleagues stirling work over the last few weeks it has been much appreciated.
Paul
Complain about this postDon't agree with Aggers view that they tried their best on each and every day...they looked a beaten team very early on in the series, and in the last test, most didn't show any passion or fight which was most notable by the dreadful shot selection which several batsman got out to.
Complain about this postQuite agree about returning the MBE's, should be done as a matter of honour afer they disgraced themselves.
England lost because of a bunch of over-rated players. They will lose again as people continue to over-rate the players.
Look at the batting averages of the English players in comparsion to the Australian players? They make dreadful reading.
Strauss was clearly off form though was harshly called out many a time. Cook had only 1 hundred, no fifties, he failed to often, as an opener what confidence did he give to the team.
Bell too failed too often as 3rd batsman, perhaps some glove training and number 6 beckon.
Some of the bowlers should never wear the England shirt again. They are too expensive and ineffective particularly Anderson and Mahmood.
Pansear is over-rated, while he holds promise, he is still very expensive, I lost count of all the times he was bashed at will around the park as Australia increased the run rate. Harmison is still good but just needs a rocket up his backside, how lazy can an international bowler be!
Only Petierson, Flintoff, Collingwood and Hoggard (as an average grunt) can take anything out of the tour and in that order.
The rest are Mollycoddled Bums of the Empire (MBEs)
Complain about this postThe simple truth was, that a squad of no hope bowlers were selected for this tour.
Complain about this postWe will go into the one dayers and the World Cup without a coherant strategy and will suffer the consequences.
Its time for Fletcher to go now !!
Perhaps after this dreadful performance, and remembering how all the counties basked in the reflective glory of 2005 one can only hope that they (the counties) will really try to develop the ENGLISH game. Why, oh why are there so many non-England qualified players on county staffs who are there for the money - not to develop and improve the English game. Do any of the southern hemisphere test palying countries "enjoy" such an influx of England palyers to there top level domestic cricket? For every non-England qualified player in the UK playing there is one England qualified player who is not - and what's more he is not getting the experience or development. Always it is such short-termism. I dread to think what will happen in the one-day series, let alone the World Cup. God helps us - I think He's the only hope!
Complain about this postNo backbone, no fight, no spirit...
But what else should we expect when our children have non-competitive Sports Days in school ?
We have a whole generation being brought up on lack of discipline, lack of respect, 'I want and I get attitude without hardwork', lack of drive and desire to succeed etc etc.
Time for the silent majority to get this Country back on track !!! Sport is just the visible problem !
England Football Team - over paid and don't deliver time and time again. How can someone be paid to play for their Country ???
Complain about this postEngland Rugby - shambles
England Cricket - embarrassing
It's been a fairly disastrous tour all round, one of the main reasons being that the selectors go for out of form 'names' rather ther than those players who are in form but not so well known. It's the same as the Beckham scenario in football.
We didn't learn from 2005 when we squeaked through 2-1. We didn't prepare enough and we got battered.
The place in the team has to be earned and then maintained. No-one, not even the captain, should expect to get through on their position. If they're not up to the job then they should be dropped.
Complain about this postJonathan, you are absolutely right. I only hope that you are listened too.
The irony is Shane Warne picked the best side for England before the First Test (Read and Panessar) but by the time they got a game the result was never in doubt.
The problem is the England team has been too much of a closed shop. Replacing Read with Jones, bringing back Giles. There is nothing wrong with either Jones or Giles, both fine men, but what a kick in the teeth it was for both Read and Monty. You've worked hard, but we'll take over now. This is de-motivating.
There needs to be more professionalism in the England side. This isn't a holiday, and if they don't like that then (as you say) they should go, and make room for someone who wants the job.
The result, 5-0, is flattering to Australia. If England had got their teeth into Australia and won the second test or even drawn it then it would have been a different matter. As it is thanks lads, the Aussies will be gloating about this for years to come.
This heavyweight contest became one-sided due to one of the competitors not taking it seriously, being complacent, over-weight, and short of practice. For all the snide comments made about the Australian team's age they certainly weren't complacent. Well done Australia you deserve it.
Complain about this postI firmly believe that what England were missing the most was the dynamic captaincy of Michael Vaughan. His approach to the Australians; not to stand back in awe of their egos, but to 'come to the party', undermined their ability to play the game their way. Not to take anything away from the Australians. Their strategy was simple and flawless, in particular Glenn Mcgrath'c consistent bowling was magnificent. Shane Warne and Glenn Mcgrath's retirement was the only highlight of the series, but they will be much missed by us england fans. For old times sake; 'bowling Shane!'
Complain about this postCongrats Australia, a ruthless performance.
This is the third England team that I've seen lose a series 5-0, and, for what it's worth, this team is much better than their 1984 and 1986 equivalents. Mind you, the Windies then were a better side than this Aussie team, IMHO.
Better (i.e., any) preparation, disband the old boys coterie, find a strike bowler who actually wishes to tour and get Vaughn and Jones fit, and at least there's the spine of a competitive team (for spine, one can also read backbone...).
An honour to have seen McGrath and Warne, they'll be hugely missed.
And a big raspberry to the Beeb for not broadcasting overseas via the net.
Complain about this postI'm already reading in the press and hearing from some players that it will all be different in 2009 because of the retirement of the key Australian players. This is absurd.
Those who can remember the 1989 series (unfortunately I can) will recall the Aussies came over with a team of unknown, young players and were rated as the "worst side ever to tour". They subsequently wiped the floor with us.
Players such as Steve Waugh and Craig McDermott came to the fore under the leadership of Allan Border. Don't be surprised to find the Aussies finding some world-class gems to replace the Warne, McGrath, Langer, Hayden, Gilchrist and Martyn in '09.
England should stop looking at the Aussies and sort out their own back yard. Time to clear a few out and give some others a chance - how many other countries would tolerate a 5-0 beating without changing things? If the players REALLY believe they had enough preperation and were focused/bonded for the series, then they are admitting they are not good enough and should move on.
Complain about this postCollingwood not a world class #5?
Pardon me, but it seems to me that he was the only idiot out there trying.
Open your eyes. You slap him around and you insult him but yet he comes back over and over again. You need him; so quit your complaining.
God, you English can be so dense with celebrity sometimes.
Complain about this postGood point by Damian Martyn (#150) (surely not THE Damien Martyn??). Robert Key is a potentially great player and I predict he will be the saviour of the English game. Another of my favourites is Nick Knight (can we persuade him to come out of retirement?)
Complain about this postWe can use all the cliches in the world, preperation, families going to early, lack of competative warm ups, balance of team. Nothing can cover the fact they performed like a load of spineless no-hopers. I am embarresed to be an England supporter at the moment and I think the players should be made to go on T.V. and explain their pathetic performance without the use of the normal hackneyed team-speak.......and as for Fletcher;
for all the good you have done here, for the sake of god, go
Complain about this postSurely the single biggest thing to learn from this tour is that we should never again throw half fit players into a test.
Anderson, Jones, Giles, Tres & Fred were all either unfit or had been out of action. Put Harmy in the mix too as lacking match practice and we didn't stand a chance. Apart from the detrimental effect on performance, bringing all these guys back was a negative move which handed the ozzies all the confidence they could want.
Which makes all the calls for bringing Vaughan back 'for his captaincy' all the sillier. Fair enough if he first proves he can bat, but the rest of the batting isn't strong enough to carry a passenger.
We can still be the 2nd best team in the world (lets worry about Australia in 2009), so lets focus on the summer now. My team to take on the Windies:
Strauss
Cook
Joyce
KP
Colly
Bell
Fred
A keeper (doesn't really matter who)
Harmy
Monty
Hoggy
Vaughan, Tres and Simon Jones to only be considered again when they have proved they have some form with their counties.
Complain about this postWhat a Humiliation..Fletcher should go as he has no passion being a South African,the same as Greg Chapple for India.You have to be born and bred in the country to show any fight or commitment.I have never been so embarresed in all my life being an Englishmen.
Complain about this postThis is the worst side in History to put on an England shirt and I hope the ECB will learn fromn this.
This team had no fight or determanation and you could see that they were afraid of Australia.
Never mind how good Australia was and least show some fight and as for the last five english batsman you could see that they were never going to make any fight of it.
A sad day for english Cricket
I agree with everything Jonathan has written and believe this english side is going to come last in the one-day series and fail dismally at the world cup. This isn't blind pessimism but a judgement based on their poor performance, poor preparation and poor professionalism.
Complain about this postFlintoff should be replaced as skipper and quickly - for his sake and for englands.
It is taking nothing from England's performance in 2005 to say that this series has put that series into some serious context - not that the gongs will be returned! You listen to Nasser and Botham bang on about "heart" and "wanting it" and no doubt there was a gap between the sides in the display of these characteristics. But you have to also sum it up by acknowledging one thing: when everything goes perfectly for England, with no injuries, a strong preparation, COMBINED WITH Australia suffering some terrible luck (eg McGrath at Edgbaston) and it's players being complacent - then only did England STILL only win by a bee's dick. Conversely, when Australia has an injury-free run and a decent preparation and is not cocky but hungry, the result is a 5-0 thrashing. Despite the 2005 series there was a massive difference in the skill and talent levels of both sides which went unacknowledged throughout England's excessive self-congratulation. The fact is harsh but remains - "heart" and "wanting it" doesn't win high level cricket matches on a consistent base - it's a skills based game. "Wanting it" is not to the point when looking at the problems Ausrtalia exposed in Cook's work outside off-stump and his complete lack of footwork, "wanting it" has nothing to do with the fact that Mahmood, Anderson and Harmison can't land 2 successive balls in remotely the same place, "wanting it" is irrelevant when you look the obvious deficiency of skill of both Jones and Read and "wanting it" certainly goes nowhere near exposing the myth that is Kevin Pietersen - has anyone seen him play a match-winning innings on a pitch that was not as flat as a pancake? The Oval and Adelaide were more than batting paradises - even Collingwood made runs in Adelaide! He's yet to step up on a wicket that's doing a bit with his team needing a fighting innings.....Buchanan wasn't far off the mark with KP. Finally "wanting it" doesn't get past the fact that in the big moments England's players got stage-fright and lacked bottle. Nass/Both - get away from the cliches....they do you no service. Instead, remember it's a skills based game and that no further preparation or the prescence of Vaughan, Tresco etc would have saved you - when this Australian side put their heads down and determined to blow England off the park they were not going to be averted from achieving that objective.
Now I only hope that England focuses on the "no Warne, no McGrath, possibly no Gilchrist thing" for 2009 - if they do they will get a rude surprise with the quality of cricketers waiting for the chance.....
Over to you guys!
Complain about this postWe need a proper England captain, who knows how to conduct himself and how to be a capatin.
Leave players like Flintoff to do what they are good at.i.e. bowling & batting.
Proper acclimatisation in the touring country, good warm up games, practise, practise practise every waking moment to dedicate themselve to win.Play players on form, not reputation. Nothing wrong in a player being dropped and fighting back his place. Back to basics
Complain about this postHey Chris Rhodes (post 131) - I was a great bowler - much better than Mahmoody or james andersonny
I agree that with Robert Key in the team we would have won
Complain about this postHaving stuck with it to the bitter end, I decided to listen to Messrs Agnew and Boycott combing through the debris on their Podcast on DAB.
Complain about this postSo I had to endure the following message, complete with irritating sound effect, for ONE HOUR after close of play.
"Keep listening... coming up shortly.. the Ashes Podcast"
I would love to know the 成人快手's definition of "shortly"
Groan
I agree with Jonathan Agnew's comments but would add much more. Many players are clearly so obsessed with boosting and maintaining their egos that they are unable to focus on their 'work'. For instance hey are obsessed with watching the 'big screen' after every ball but instead of generating an improvement in attitude and concentration this serves only to inflate egos even more. And without being too pessimistic many of the players have too'cosy' a relationship with the media which in the passage of time, I fear, will result in few personnel changes next year and no opportunities for the numerous County cricketers who would have performed far better than many of the existing team.
Complain about this postEngland have been completely battered, and this will bring a few people back down to earth after their very close, but deserved series victory in 2005. Lets remember that England narrowly won the series 2-1, with one test being won by a couple of runs, that's how close it was.
All Australia have done is remind everyone that they are far superior to England in all departments.
..And lets face it England have their best players in Australia.
The bowling for me has been terrible, Australia claimed most of their wickets nicking off behind or to slips, which basically means they pitched the ball up and let the pitch and seam to the rest.
England bowled way to short on both sides of the wicket.
England have ruined the confidence of both Chris Read and Monty by not picking them from the start of the series, everytime Chris Read goes out to bat he is under tremendous pressure, which is just not fair, and the Monty situation was just a joke.
Flintoff is not a captain full stop. He has bad body language which translates to the other players.
Harmison is not committed to the cause and would rather be in Newcastle watching football.
Fletcher needs to go, all this tickering with techniques, forward press and taking the ball i front of the stumps etc.
Australia do the basics and do it very well, with hard work, team play and disipline being the key.
Complain about this postIf you're selling or buying a house, it's "location, loactaion, location" that is impportant. In a series like this, it's "attitude, attitude, attitude". The one side had it, the other didn't. It might have been better had McGrath not trodden on that cricket ball in England. Then England wouldn't have won the Ashes and the Aussies wouldn't have placed so much emphasis on a whitewash. Foreward thinking is asked for.
Complain about this postCouldn't aggree more Aggers!
The primary problems are Management on and off the field. The wrong Captain was selected. Botham was inspirational but not a captain. Freddy is similar, have we seen his best? Will the 'drubbing' affect his psychology in the future? I hope not.
'Free spirits' need a very strong and strategic captain who can view things dispassionately.
Very few bowlers make good captains.
They must all be made to feel proud to play for their country, they are international professional representatives and paid accordingly.
Although management has let them down, as professionals they have not played to their abilities, consistently
I equally hope lessons will be learned in all departments! I fear a 'whitewash' from Lords also!
Complain about this postI think it fair to say that England has been beaten by one of the very best test cricket teams in history. I have been following cricket for 55 years and on no occasion have I seen a more determined, nor more aggressive test team than the way the current Australian team went about their business.
Complain about this postWe spent over 拢10,000 to visit Australia. Australia was fantastic, both its team and its people. England were an embarrassment. "nd at batting, bowling fielding, tactics and team spirit.
Complain about this postdespiite this we considered buying tickets for the Saturday Test and the 1 day international at Headingley, for next season.
The total price for 2 of us would have been close to 拢200, excluding the 'customer friendly' booking fee.
This is an outrageous price! Our tickets for Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth cost around A$45 = 拢18 per day.
After this Ashes debacle any England recovery is likely to take place in empty stadia, unless this dreadful price structure is sorted out.
What an absolute disgrace! Don't bother coming home.
Complain about this postoutclassed simple as that. Combine that with a distinct lack of guts. When we won the ashes in 2005 for months on end all we heard was how great this team was they had countless meetings with the queen photo opps with the prime minister ok magazine deals it simply went to all of their heads. Whilst we were messing around the aussies went to work and demolished everyone in their path. As for lack of guts look no further than trescothick! When will he get over himself and put his country first. Everything that could have gone wrong went wrong and those players now need to change their lifestyles forget book deals, sponsorship deals all of that and get serious for 2009!
Complain about this postMy suggestion would be to have on an open-top bus parade like in 2005. Only this time it could start in Trafalgar Square and drive in reverse back to the hotel.
Having to go through that might get some of the players firing again.
Complain about this postWell, from an Aussie perspective, it has all happened in this Test series, which has been a sellout from go to whoa over here, thanks in no small part to the ever present and effervescent "Barmy Army"!
England's team did it's level best and on several occasions looked like geting to grips with what was needed to bring off a win. Against that, was the Australian sides strength in depth, which allowed the side to recover from situations that would have daunted lesser teams.
I know that much is said abroad about Australia's attitude to sport but I would simply say that any and every team that is picked to represent its country, should be imbued with the will to win, no matter how uphill the task.
In the end, it was not so much a difference in the skills held that made the difference, it was the flat refusal to give up that saw Australia succeed.
I have seen statistics bandied about left, right and centre by various pundits but for me, this was the telling one. On five occasions during this Test series, the England side lost five wickets for thirty five runs or less.
Even if you are the second best Test side in the world and closing the gap, you cannot go up against the best rated team and hope to triumph with figures like that!
Whenever things were evenly poised, it was the relative abilities of the two "tail ends" that made the crucial difference.
England played some excellent stuff but it was in patches, whereas Australia stuck to unrelenting and remorseless assault when bowling and that aforementioned strength in depth when batting. For me, the Aussies merited the five-nil triumph that they achieved today.
Oz now has to face a cricket future without its senior players, blokes that have made Australia the best side in the World for over a decade.
When the likes of Lillee, Marsh and Thommo left the game, everyone thought that there would never be players that were their equal. How wrong were they? I for one see upcoming players that will enable Oz to field very competitive sides for years to come. Another talented generation is about to take up play and I look forward to that very much.
Complain about this postMcGrath, Warne, Langer and Damien Martyn were great players all, what a privilege it has been to watch them earn their crust!
Gerry.
I, like all other England supporters, am deeply shellshocked by what I have seen over the past 6 weeks.
For me, the main error was the choice of captain for which the selectors have got to take full responsibility. Flintoff can be a world class all rounder but why saddle him with the captaincy as well. This way, he cant fully concentrate on either captaincy or batting / bowling or fielding. Strauss would have done far better and allowed Freddie to put in those world class perfomances we all know he can deliver.
His "get out and show 'em" style of capataincy might work on a schools playing field but not against the best team in world cricket. It's simply naive to think otherwise.
Another grip is the balance of the side with the tail seemingly starting at No7 with at least 4 No 11s in the team - what is going on?
Mahmood and Anderson looked county standard and were left seriously wanting in terms of ability. How can you call these strike bowlers - they just serve up longhops and wide half volleys. Botham calls these "buffet" bowlers - help yourself!
Despair, despair, despair...
Complain about this postIn my opinion attention has to be directed to the batting perfomances of the the teams tail end, including wicket keeper. The Australians had nothing to fear once the first five front line batsmen had been accounted for. The tail on almost every occassion barely mustered 50 runs between them yet compare that to the level of contribution the likes of Gilchrist, Warne and even Clark make. A weak tail puts added pressure on the middle order as they will fully anticipate not being at the crease for terribly long therefor that will hasten their shot making which leads to errors. I agree with Jonathan Agnew that any tour requires to be taken seriously and attention paid to detail.
Regards
Complain about this postIM
Aggers is right, lack of preparation was one cause, selection of captain another. After Strauss's contribution in the summer, without Flintoff was nothing short of fantastic. A brilliant field placing brain along with well timed bowling changes led to a 3-0 win over Pakistan. He got the best out of Monty and Sadj. If you're not taking wickets, what message does this sent to batsman. It's bowlers that win you games and we could not compete in that department.
Complain about this postWith Flintoff we had an overbowled captain, a wicket taking spinner with defensive field placings and not to forget bad selections of Giles and Jones during the first few tests. Lets hope we have a long post mortem in the long room.
Well done to Australia who thoroughly deserved their victory.
The demise all started from the foolish English declaration in the second test and England were not able (or, in their heart of hearts, willing?) to pick themselves up from that demoralising defeat.
Changes must be made and we need to find a decent seamer who can bat!
Complain about this postAggers, you are so right.
England have been lamentable. The results have been appalling, but almost worse has been the blind and misplaced "we're playing well, but just losing the odd session, we still have hope" attitude.
I really wish one of the players, ideally the Skipper or Skipper in waiting (Strauss, please) would say it how it really is. English cricket is in desperate trouble. Not through a lack of talent or funding, but lack of honesty and dedication.
How many readers of this blog would readily give up an extra week away from their family in order to definitely be ready to take on Australia, to defend the Ashes, in Australia? Now look at the selfishness, arrogance, complacency and sheer idiotic leadership that allowed England to take even half a risk.
It could be argued that there was no lack of effort from England during the games. Perhaps. The harsh reality is that the lack of effort came before the first ball was bowled (and what a quality wide that was!).
There needs to be an inquisition, not an inquiry. Someone needs to grip the ECB and the squad and ensure a new, successful era starts.
The Australians were brilliant. As players, competitors, sportsmen and human beings. There is obvious commitment to the cause and each other. A privelage to watch them, even against sub-standard opponents. The striking thing for me is their whole demeanour and intense pride at wearing the Baggy. Contrast our pyjama and vest wearing balcony of, and I hate to say this, failures.
I will always support England, but at the moment, its very very difficult!
Complain about this postMr Andy - Aussie in the USA......what's that about vaughan bottling it this winter? i'd like to see you playin when you're injured and have been for over a year!!! it's not like he opted out cos he didnt feel like it! what's he meant to do? damage his leg even more than it is already by batting? bear in mind aswell that he hasnt played in over a year so he would have been hopelessly out of form and would have been of no benefit to our already poor batting lineup!
Complain about this postIt's English cricket that needs examination, not just this tour. We kept Hussey's career alive for years when the Aussies had no interest in him. County cricket is self serving, diluted and overrun by foreigners and has beens. The central contracts system was dreamt up to protect bowlers like Old and Gough who had their fitness continually ruined by Yorkshire and is now a bolt hole for the work shy. Whoever enquires into crciket has an axe to grind on behalf of one of the counties or the ECB who sold us all out on TV rights (unless you are rich enough to have Sky). Step forward a trio of Aussies to sort it out please before "the product" is damaged beyond repair.
Complain about this postAgree with this article by Aggers, the tour was a farce and the performances as a whole were disgraceful. Thankfully (!!) I'm in Iraq at the moment and couldn't waste my time actually watching the games, although I'm sure watching the Australian performance would have been worthwhile for true cricket lovers, despite the obvious pain it will cause.
I trully believe that a number of players need to have a serious word with themselves and their commitment to the team should be questioned. These players need to toughen up mentally, they are proffesional sportsmen not footballers :) and are getting paid to play cricket, if they can't give it 100% then British cricket needs to do itself a favour and get rid of the pre madonnas and do us supporters a favour. There are some egos in this team that need to be knocked down a few pegs. There are no world class players in this team (and I include KP in that statement), and only by performing as a team can they hope to compete with the best teams in the world.
I am extremely angry that many people are already looking towards the 2009 Ashes, when there are a number of lessons that need to be learned from this tour and it should be thoroughly analysed by players and coaches alike.
Lets hope that as much time is spent analysing this drubbing, as was wasted on the back slapping and commending the 2005 win; then hopefully, we will learn from this experience and come out a better team next Summer ready for India and WI, which should be our next point of focus.
Complain about this postIf winning at sports is to be a serious goal in Britain (and the general euphoria following the 2005 ashes victory would suggest that it should be) then a more proffessional approach in terms of preparation, coaching, and fitness is essential. The England team was patently less well prepared than Australia and I for one do not agree that the outcome would have been inevitable in any event; we in fact have a wealth of talent but poor management. This must change.
Complain about this postI agree with Jonathan about preparation and team bonding.
Things that have to happen for England to compete with and beat the West Indies this summer:
Flintoff to lose the captaincy (no doubt he will resign it anyway);
Strauss to replace him (no place for Vaughan in the team now);
England selectors to be reconstituted - the team coach to have no place on the panel;
Fletcher to be replaced as coach - the ECB must act swiftly to get the right coach and the right support team in place - waiting until after the World Cup is too late..
For the longer term, the ECB must review the central contract arrangements for the players - the effect of current arrangements is that players play only Tests and the Test team appears a closed shop for anyone knocking at the door.
The ECB must also integrate the Academy with the Tets and ODI teams - it has not been clear what the purpose has been of the Academy's stay in Perth (other than to have players ready to join the Test squad when needed).
Complain about this postI am mostdissapointed by the lack of ambition and guts showed by our 'team'...well hardly a team, and that is also a key issue - where is 'matemanship' as the Aussies call it...where eveyone fights together? Freddie may be a good cricketer - but he is no leader. Start again England and for national pride alone learn from your mistakes - of which there are many.
Complain about this postI am glad we lost this last test. I could see the headlines had we have won it, " There is hope" or "We are on the up". We are not good enough. Too many books were wrote on the back of the last Ashes and that is typical of our mentality.
Lets win something and make extra sure we win it again....and again...and again and then write the book.
Lock Botham in a room with the MCC and get it sorted.
Complain about this postWho would have thought it? After 2005, England won 2-1 and the whole team were awarded MBEs. Now England have a team of MBEs who have been thrashed 5-0. Lets see some consisteny here and have the whole Australian Team awarded Knighthoods. They certainly deserve it.
Complain about this postEngland rightly deserve the stick they are getting. Just as with success, failure brings with it all of its charms and trappings. However let's not over react. Sixteen months ago the core group of these players won us the Ashes and, before that series, were playing the best Engish International Cricket for two decades.
I'll make some observations.
- Our form going into the test series was poor. An Ashes hangover? Perhaps, if you buy into that. It may be the pinnacle match for most of the media but I assume that victories against Pakistan and India in the sub continent and at home would have been equally as important for any English cricketer.
- Major contributors to our ashes success were struggling for form or were injured. The partnership of tresco and strauss averages over 60 runs. Tresco has been our opening rock for sometime. I hope people now realise how important it is he comes back mentally healthy. Although I personally believe he is finished. No Vaughn, a man who going into the Australia series of 2005 had a 40 average. Our best captain for some time. A real leader. Flintoff struggling with injury and the pressures of leading a team not capable of competing. Harmison out of form for twelve months. A long term injury to Simon Jones. No spin control from Ashley Giles. Hardly any kind of contribution with the bat by our top two choices of wicket keeper. They averaged 11 over the series between them. Over the year the average is not much better.
There are compelling reasons as to why England lost here. The preparation could have been better. To anyone better prepared to look at facts over blind optimism the result would have been exactly the same. Don't decry the death of English cricket just yet though. It's in a much better state now than it has been for a very long time.
Complain about this postWhat a Humiliation..Fletcher should go as he has no passion being a South African,the same as Greg Chapple for India.You have to be born and bred in the country to show any fight or commitment.I have never been so embarresed in all my life being an Englishmen.
Complain about this postThis is the worst side in History to put on an England shirt and I hope the ECB will learn fromn this.
This team had no fight or determanation and you could see that they were afraid of Australia.
Never mind how good Australia was and least show some fight and as for the last five english batsman you could see that they were never going to make any fight of it.
A sad day for english Cricket
I think there's more to it than practice - England players have performed much better than that on the same practice in series past. The problem here was that Fletcher sent out a team to "not lose" rather than win. It never works. How many times in football do you see the team playing for a draw, or protecting a 1-0 lead, actually come out with that result? It's 50-50 at best.
Also, it seemed to me from the comments post-first test, that the England players were treating it as a privilege to be on the same pitch as "such a great team". Nonsense. They are cricket players, all of them, even Warne and McGrath, nothing more than cricket players on an opposing team. England should have gone onto the pitch on that first day knowing they were Ashes winners, believing they were not only as good as Australia but better, knowing it would be a close contest keenly fought.
Instead, they went onto the pitch craven, like a small child hanging onto a toy its parent was trying to take away from them. Fear is shameful, but never more shameful than in International sport and the nation is ashamed of its cricketers right now, just as it was ashamed of the footballers in the summer.
What's worse is that the players don't seem ashamed at all, they seem to think the natural order of things was for "this great side" to win. They are a great side, but so were we in 2005. What happened? Fear. Shameful fear.
Complain about this postisnt this just another example of english teams doing what they do the best..?? ie: not having the stomach for a real fight..??
seems to me that its the same in rugby and football, antiquated management, who are more interested in keeping themselves and their friends in power and a national league thats too fat..
Complain about this postWe were well beaten by a great side.
Complain about this postFrom an Aussie (although English born) I don't really worry that much about the state of English cricket. I think in 3 years time England will be a great foe again.
Remember that Australia did not make wholesale changes after their defeat in 2005. The names in this series are the same. Why such a turnaround then?
Belief and attitude. Just look at the differences of the two sides in these 2 attributes and its easy to see why England failed. I have been attacked in other posts as people dont belief that attitude is a reason for poor performance. Of course it is. If you have the attitude that it will be a walk in the park against Dads Army then all the underlying indicies that make up a winning formula will be lost.
The attitude of a walk in the park will then lead to the belief that no practice is needed, that mediocre performances by the team will be accepted as good enough, that sub standard players can rest on their past glories.
The players need to change their attitude and start preparing for contests as if it were a contest and not a walk in the park. Skill alone is not going to carry them far. Warne says it all the time; he also relies on mental toughness including mind games as well as skill. He has the right attitude to win. Could you imagine Warne as a captain accepting sub standard performance?
The current team for England looks good so don't chuck out the baby with the bath water.
Solid openers who will grow if allowed to with a solid Bell (maybe he can move down to allow Vaughan back in - who goes - PC?), a middle order that is good (KP and Freddie have the skills), a wicket keeper who can get at least get 20 or 30 runs (don't be fooled into thinking another Adam Gilchrist will come along so settle with what wicket keepers used to be like). Monty is a star in the making and probably Hoggard as he is of world class now. Out of all the players maybe Harmy has been the most disappointing as his attitude certainly affected his bowling. He should have gone home with Trescothick.
Duncan has had his time, even in business we all run out of ideas in the end. Bring in a coach from overseas (and I only say this as it appears a majority of the ex england players would rather comment than coach), someone who has the mental toughness - Steve Waugh or Ian Healy would be excellent -Why? because they tell it like it is, perform or your ought, no old boy networks in england to get in their ears, and they know how to think like champions.
Good Luck...
Complain about this postI, like all other England supporters, am deeply shellshocked by what I have seen over the past 6 weeks.
For me, the main error was the choice of captain for which the selectors have got to take full responsibility. Flintoff can be a world class all rounder but why saddle him with the captaincy as well. This way, he cant fully concentrate on either captaincy or batting / bowling or fielding. Strauss would have done far better and allowed Freddie to put in those world class perfomances we all know he can deliver.
His "get out and show 'em" style of capataincy might work on a schools playing field but not against the best team in world cricket. It's simply naive to think otherwise.
Another grip is the balance of the side with the tail seemingly starting at No7 with at least 4 No 11s in the team - what is going on?
Mahmood and Anderson looked county standard and were left seriously wanting in terms of ability. How can you call these strike bowlers - they just serve up longhops and wide half volleys. Botham calls these "buffet" bowlers - help yourself!
Despair, despair, despair...
Complain about this postThe real disappointment of this series has not been that we lost the Ashes, but that we were denied the thrills of a great professional sporting competition.
There is no game in the world that loses its attractiveness so completely as a totally one-sided cricket match.
All the good that was done for the game in England in 2005 has not quite been undone in Australia, but it is a crime that there was a whiff of complacency about the whole England set-up following 2005.
Lessons MUST be learnt, and given the magnitude of the defeat perhaps they will be. Every cloud.........
Complain about this postCongratulations Aggers and the whole team it was fantastic listening to you all. Great work especially in maintaining your dignity with KO'K.
I will never listen to TV commentary again whilst there are the likes of you on the radio.
Though England were thrashed most of the players showed they have the skill to match the aussies. However they MUST learn how to apply all that skill ALL the time. There is much to look forward to though it seems so grim now.
Complain about this postGood old Collingwood for never,
He knows how to play the game,
Side by side he sticks together,
To uphold the british game,
See the barmy army barracking
As all barrackers should,
O the Ashes are a cakewalk,
For good old Collingwood.
Memo Paul Collingwood,
When you have played over 100 tests
and have the world test wicket bowling record
then and only then can you diss who you like
Even the aussies show Lara and Tendulka
the respect they deserve...
Warnie and Boycott got it right
1 test 7, and 10 runs does not equal an MBE
We won 5-0 because we slipped up in 2005
Came back ,regrouped, learnt from our mistakes In OZ respect and credibility have to be earnt
We went into boot camp, you lot got on the piss
We showed the Ashes the respect they deserve
You lot came over for a holiday with missus's + kids
Who should not have been here until xmas Thank you for giving Langer the respect he deserves
Strauss once you play over 100 tests and form the
second highest opening partnership in test history
You will be given that respect
Australia knew it had to beat the great West Indies at home to be considered a great side
Complain about this postYou won in 2005, well done, but what since then?
You have a very good squad of talented players
But until you learn it's not about MBE'S, book contracts and page 3 calender shoots you will never
mentally succeed, skill is only half the answer
Aggers got it right, learn from this pathetic effort
Come back in 2009 and show the cricket world you mean business and deserve to be number one
Then and only then will Australia give you the respect you deserve, it has to be earnt.
As an Englishman of course I am very disappointed, but the Australian team was superior in every aspect of the game. Most significantly at this level you have to 'scale the heights' psychologicaly and emotionally, and Australia showed why they are number 1 in the world by some margin. Yes we showed some flashes of good play becuase we have a couple of world class cricketers, but we were beaten before we got on the pitch, and then once on the pitch we were totally outplayed.
Complain about this postGood to see the experts are writing for the 成人快手 website:
"Warne almost had Harmison lbw - an appeal went to the third umpire who ruled in the benefit of the batsman"
Seriously?
Anyhow... a last comment for the series. Congratulations Australia, thoroughly deserved. Whilst the England team does have some talent, they have lacked courage, determination and motivation. I am actually glad you completed the whitewash, anything less would have been flattering to England.
Where now? Well, it's time for English sport, not just cricket, to aim a bit higher. "We played our best" isn't good enough. If you lose, you lose. I want to see them saying, "Our best wasn't good enough and we are going to work until it is". They need to start looking at the commitment of the Aussies, which is something few English sportsmen and women can match. Do you think someone like Sir Steve Redgrave (someone who truly earned the honour) would have accepted anything less that gold?
I hope England are truly hurt by this series. They should be. Somehow I'm not sure they will be though. Pieterson sat picking his nose after getting out (nice work Sky), still too many smiles in the field at the end of a truly humiliating defeat.
I thought for a while that Collingwood might turn into a sort of Steve Waugh of the England middle order. Sadly, I don't see it any longer. One good innings, in a match England managed to inexplicably lose, 4-0 down and he thinks it's a good idea to sledge Warne? Admittedly it was funny to watch, but there was only ever going to be one winner.
Anyway, I'm actually not bitter about things. The result was the right one. Australia are the better team. Hoggard and Panesar can be proud of their efforts. Bell and Pieterson were ok but have a lot of work to do. Read's glovework was excellent, and now I'm struggling for any more positives.
After England's early exit from the World Cup, I hope they begin some serious work. All the best lads, I'm still behind you, but you need to show a bit of backbone next time.
Complain about this postWonderfully honest feelings and far less expletive driven than I could possibly be. I have saved to go the World Cup ( I live in the US) and feel that the omens are incredibly bad even at the group stage. The players and organization lack the guts neccesary to survive a tough tour. At key stages games could have been won or saved but on every occasion England - as a collective failed. That is a team building issue and while they are incredibly highly paid athletes the management (including Flintoff) fundamentally failed to use common sense in preparation. We celebrated last year but like school children who beat the seniors (once) we forget the lessons that got us the win. We need to learn - right now - that the best approach is to be Australian in style of preparation. The talent is there but the preparation and leadership has got to change right now.
Complain about this postit started badly and got worse and worse and worse. at least in past tours there was no optimism at all of a result, but here we actually considered it plausible that we could at least draw the series to bring home the ashes, now that optimism just seems foolhardy.
England never joined the races. the warm up games were a joke. i always rated cricket because it didn't seem to have been tainted with the same degree of celebrity as football, but the lack of preparation and the reliance on previous glories such as 2005 was utterly short sighted and you could almost be forgiven for thinking that england thought they could waltz to victory in this series without any kind of preparation, simply because they did it last time.
look at australia tho. they were so hungry, so focused from day one of the first test. harmisons first ball was exactly what we all feared at the time - a sign of things to come. unfocused, innacurate and totally off the pace. it's hard enough winning the ashes at the best of times, but when you've got injured players missing (vaughan, tescothic, jones) unfit players playing (flintoff, giles, anderson) and in-form players dropped (panesar, reed) then it's no wonder the whole team was all over the shop.
i wish flintoff had come out and admitted that we were garbage and that we had no chance and that he was eshamed and actualy apologied to all the people that have spent thousands of pounds to go and support the team in Oz. Instead we got drab soundbites about how we can challenge next time. that is no god given right, we need massive changes from this, don't expect things to just change like the tide, we were so far short here and we need massive improvement to be able to challenge again.
The pity is Warne and Mcgrath won't be around next time. they are the best bowlers i've ever seen and australia being without them next time my give us a chance next time, but their abcense will be felt, as everyone wants to see winners on the cricket field. it's just a shame there weren't any on the england team this series.
Complain about this postI agree completely Jonathon.
I'm thinking of writing to the ECB to demand the money back that I spent on upgrading to SkySports, just so I could watch this debacle live.
Complain about this postIf I'M this angry, I can't imagine how dissapointed and let down the Barmy Army feel. They were absolutely magnificent and I hope that Fletcher and co. (all the way up!) appreciate the sacrifices they made and the money they spent to follow the tour. Let's hope for a full and proper enquiry, so that things are put right for subsequent tours.
Only one comment to make...
How many Englishmen play in Sheffield Shield Cricket?
Why do we persist in developing Australia's talent for them, when there is clearly no reciprocal agreement.
All overseas player county contracts should be conditional on an English player receiving the same length/type contract in the highest grade of overseas cricket.
Next Ashes 2009 - so all overseas player contracts in English County Cricket should be terminated at 31 Dec 2007 and a new system brought in.
Has amazing parallels in the FA Premier League don't you think?
Complain about this postI completely agree with the sentiments in this article, although I think Jonathan is too kind.
One of the reasons Australia have done so well is that ever man has played absolutely for his country and his country's reputation.
Can the same be said for the England players? I doubt it.
One the most annoying things about this whole shambles has been the spectacle of Flintoff (nice man, decent player, too intellectually challenged to make a decent captain) talking about these matches as though they were game of dominoes at the local. (Oh well, we lost. Shall we have another pint?).
Why aren't they weeping with shame?
What is the motivation for these players when they seem to be feted as celebrities and plied with sponsorship money regardless of the fact they are abject failures? Our cricketers are now no different to our our footballers : they live in little complacent bubbles of self-regard, out of touch with reality and their responsibility to the nation.
Send them down t'pit to harden up.
Complain about this postThe England Cricket team were always on a hiding immediately after they won the ashes series in 2005.Australians do not like losing to the "Old Enemy"Plans were made and a totall focus given to each and every player on winning the ashes back in the 2006/7 series.
Complain about this postA Lot of talk has been around the selection process of the England cricket team whether that could have been better or not I do not know. What I do know is that there are a number of very talented players in the England cricket squad but what they do lack is an understanding of the intensity required at the very highest level. Everyone talks about the Warne. McGrath factor Yes it was a factor but the pressure from the Australians in the field put pressure on the English batsmen all of the time. At times the England field settings were poor.
One last comment, If the England cricket authority replace Flintoff it will be the biggest mistake they will ever make. It really did not matter who was the Captain the result would have been the same.Flintoff will grow into the job and will be a better cricketer because of the last five tests.
A sensible article.
As an England fan, my opinion is that losing 5-0 is no disgrace. Every team gets 'whitewashed' in australia, its just England are in the unfortunate position of being the only team who play 5-match series against the aussies. South Africa could have played a 50 match series and would have lost them all.
What disapoints me, like most people, is the manner in which England capitulated. As far as preparation goes, I think you need to balance practice with resting to be in peak physical condition. With the Champions Trophy in the way, England had neither.
I don't agree that it is just a 'job', its much more than that. Cricketers should be willing to pay to play for England. I'm sure Steve Harmison is a stand up guy, and I can sympathise with him missing his family, but if it's so bad he should get a job in Durham as a postman and not play cricket.
For all the negativity, once we've been soundly outplayed in the various one-day events coming up, I fancy us to win both test series at home this summer.
Complain about this postI have lost count of the number of comments from Down Under that it was ludicrous to think that one series win in 2005 made the England team champions and heroes. "Win the Ashes, once, just, and it's gongs all round - what a joke".
Fair comment and most Englishmen would agree too. But what about a team that manages just one whitewash, at home, and then all the stars want to retire? To be a great side, a really great side, you need back-to-back 5-0s. Including one in an away series.
For me - and having seen them both - this Australian side is very good, but not quite as good as the all-conquering Windies side under Clive Lloyd. When even your number 5 and 6 batsmen and your second change bowlers are the best in the world, then you are some side...
Complain about this postPost 171 - Peter B,
You are spot on. I think the difficulty in England now is what people associate with the flag. It now appears to be, incorrectly, associated with racism, and those who would fly it with true patriotism are perhaps worried about how they would be viewed were they to do so.
There certainly needs to be more national pride. I despise what the English football team has become, and hope the cricketers do not follow. I fear they are perilously close.
All the best to you.
Complain about this postBlah, blah, blah, blah. The problem with you Poms is that you only seem to win something once every 100 years. (okay, okay, an essay of no more than 50 words to dispute). Its great sitting back and watching you blokes just implode. Let me explain something to you... England weren't bad - Australia was good. Now, just let out a collective sigh and concentrate on beating some smaller fish.
Complain about this postI think we are going to be battered by two teams who are high on confidence. The striking power of the bowling is non existant and the batting fragile.
.
Complain about this postIt's not losing, but the manner of defeat that is so disappointing. Lets put this into context.
1. After the 2005 Ashes victory I felt that, even with all our players fit and in form, beating Australia on their home soil would be extremely tough - they're still the best team in the world and their hardened veterans were eager for revenge. For legends like Warne and McGrath this was their last Ashes. Defeat for them was simply never an option.
2. However, this wasn't our strongest team. In the absence of Vaughan, Trescothick and Jones, and with injuries overb the summer to Flintoff, Harmison, Giles and Andersen, England arrived with a weakened squad.
3. Despite this, I felt that there was still an outside chance that we could draw this series 1-1 (I just couldn't see us winning more than one). But even this moderate objective depended on getting our preparation and team selection absolutely spot on. I was dismayed when I saw how little time England had to acclimatise and get ready for the Brisbane Test. And I couldn't understand the logic of leaving out last Summer's regulars Pansesar, Read and Mahmood, for Giles, Jones and Anderson, who hadn't been playing in our Test team for months. It almost seems like we hadn't thought our Ashes planning through properly.
4. Given all these factors, we were destined to fail. But there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I predicted that, even if we lost this series, we would win in 2009 and I stand by that. The future of this young team looks good.
5. However, the key to the future lies in our domestic structure and this is another area where the Aussies have got it just right. Australian cricket operates in two tiers - Club and State cricket - with the best young players at Club level graduating to one of the 5 elite State sides. The cream rises to the top. State cricket is about quality not quantity, with the 6 teams playing 10 intense, highly competitive matches (5 home and 5 away) - this is a breeding ground for mentally tough Test cricketers. That's why superb players like Hussey and Stuart Clark break into the national team and perform.
6. County cricket should be like club cricket in Australia - the grassroots, feeding into an elite regional structure, where the top English-qualified players do battle. I would have only 3 Regional teams, playing 4 each other home and away in 4 matches (with possibly a final at at the end):
Complain about this postNORTH/MID: Durham, Yorks, Lancs, Notts, Derbys, Leics.
EAST/SOUTH: Northants, Essex, Kent, Middx, Surrey, Sussex
WEST/SOUTH: Warwicks, Worcs, Somerset, Glamorgan, Gloucs, Hants.
*Overseas players allowed in county cricket (to boost quality and help youngsters learn) but not in Regional.
** All counties receive money from the regional competitions to fund their development and academies.
Pretty well spot on Jonathan.
Complain about this postFor me the danger signs were there when Freddie Flintoff was interviewed in a clearly drunken state the day after the Ashes were won He and Harmison were also clearly the 'worse for wear' when interviewed again by the 成人快手 at the World Cup in 2006 in Germany. Having fun, fine, but being captain of England is more than that. We are too ready to celebrate.
We need a much more professional approach to our cricket if we are to rebuild successfully. Freddie needs some better advisors around him and the burden of captaincy needs to be removed from him, that should have been learned from the Botham experiment. There were a number of players on this tour whose minds were elsewhere.
Yes I am very disappointed with the result but I do take on board the facts and they are that we did not prepare as well as we might, especially in warm up games.
The loss of Vaughan,Trescothick,Jones and too an extent Giles who can bat a little were important.
The fact we went into the test with players like Flintoff coming back from injury was a factor
But more than anything I belive the ability to be aggressive and win at all costs is something we lack for the most part, and one of the reasons the Aussies are top of the tree.
We have some bright young cricketers but we need to first of all find a bowling attack that is goo enough to bowl a team out and a number of these bowlers need to be able to bat like Brett Lee and Shane Warne can then we will be in a position to take them on
Fletcher should be retained to show this was a one off and too get us back on track but like the Aussies after 2005 we must leave no stone unturned in learning from this whitewash and making sure we go on to replace the Aussies as number one in the world
Complain about this postHaving set the standard for honors by giving "her" England cricket team MBE's for winning the Ashes 2-1, I hope the queen is Getting ready to give "her" Australia team suitable honours all round for recording the first 5-0 whitewash since the 1920's. Knighthoods all round? How does Sir Shane Warne sound?
Complain about this postWe are still the best in the world at some sports though.......oh hang on.......whoops
I like Robert Key
Complain about this postFurther to my earlier missive it; it must be apparent that Kevin Pietersen has been handled very poorly by the team management and his captain. He was obviously targeted in a sly underhand fashion by Buchanan because the Aussies fear him most. It was a neat trick to claim that our most talented and flamboyant batsman for a generation was not a team player and therby encourage him to adopt a Geoffrey Boycott approach at the crease and completely stifle his innovative brilliance. What worked so well for Boycott is not Pietersen's way and Fletcher and Flintoff should have immediately spotted the fact the their player needed to be told to get back to his flamboyant style quickly.Pietersen like the great Viv Richards, makes-up strokes as he plays, which made them both so dangerous as well as entertaining.
Complain about this postI do hope or though it is probably a forlorn hope, that Fletcher and who ever is captain for the One-Day series will tell him to forget all that Buchanan rubbish about not being a team man and knock the skin off the ball at every sensible opportunity.
Complain about this postI strongly urge every follower of English cricket to write to the ECB in order to demand why so many pathetic managment decissions were taken prior and during this series?
No one cares about one day cricket all the real fans want to see is England v Australia and the managment have let the fans down badly.
Graveney is a disgrace and Fletcher is a poodle for putting up with this nonsense bring in Gatting Gooch Boycs and Botham and lets all sit down and discuss why this farce was allowed to happen and ensure it NEVER happens again!
A pissed England fan!
5-0!!!! :)
All of my pommie mates are ignoring my emails... haha this is beautiful.
Complain about this postI don't see any hope for English cricket unless there is a paradigm shift. Both players, officials and fans have to recognise that the 'Ashes' series isn't the only important event in the cricket world!
Complain about this postIn 2005 all talk and focus was on the the Ashes 2006/07 and now, after a 5-0 whitewash, its the Ashes 2009! Unbelievable!! This has become such a hype that no cricket fan outside of England and Australia takes it seriously anymore.
As a Man of Kent living in Australia, I can accept the slings and arrows of my Australian friends over the past weeks. What I cannot accept is the total lack of guts from this dismal collection of holiday makers, fraudently accepting obscene payment from the cricketing public.
Complain about this postApart from an unfit Flintoff, not one player, or the so called "management" had an ounce of dedication or resiliance.
Yes, this is a good Australian side, but that is no excuse for the pathetic display, lack of guidance and capitulation.
In a few weeks the media will be back promoting the virtues of yet another Titanic! Excuses will flood in for Fletcher, as they did for the second rate footballers at the World Cup. We will praise Henman again, when we know he is not good enough to win Wimbledon.
Thank God this collection were not alive to "Fight them on the beaches!" I would be brushing up on my German.
Aggers is right! A full review is necessary if we are to learn from this drubbing. I feel let down by the England team and management. I fear, though, that we will get another dose of defensive denial from Fletcher et al. The players, coach and whole entourage must be held accountable and change must be made. Our cricket still needs to harden up and get more ruthless on and off the field.
Complain about this postI wholeheartedly agree with everything Aggers has written. This shambolic debacle has been nothing short of a total humiliation and demonstrates very painfully the fundamental flaws in the English attitutude and approach.
Complain about this postI don't suppose it would be "cricket" if we could just come home and forget about the one day nonsense, thereby avoiding further humiliation.
Complain about this postI could not agree with JA's comments more. But -and its a very big but, how much notice will the suits at Lords take note. They are in a comfortable [almost impregnable]position and unlikely to accept any blame for the Ashes debacle. They are even less likely to ensure that the Australian way of preparing and winning is instigated. Will we see any resignations? I think not. English cricket will muddle on as it has done for as long as i can remember. As for the players on this tour they should take a long hard look at themselves - and decide whether they should carry on being a professional cricketer, or overpaid non achievers similar to their collegues in the national football team.
Complain about this postWhat a Humiliation..Fletcher should go as he has no passion being a South African,the same as Greg Chapple for India.You have to be born and bred in the country to show any fight or commitment.
Complain about this post- I dont think this comment would stand up -
- Take KP as well then and how about Strauss (is he considered English bred or SA or maybe AU).
Pride goes before a fall. England's success in 2005 was a close run thing and maybe wouldn't have happened had McGrath not stood on that ball. To celebrate them as national heroes was absurd and however down to earth you might be it must have an effect on your vanity. That said, NO-ONE played consistently well in Australia.
Complain about this postJonathan, I could not agree more.
You, me, ex players like Boycott n' Botham & the thousands that have written here on the 成人快手 all have seen the problems & can see the solutions. We admire the Australians pride, passion & fight however, as the comments made by no 34 clearly illustate, we are not being listened to.
England's form & performances have been poor for 18 months now but nothing changes. The ECB like the FA & Rugby will sit back & cash in on our blind loyalty. We will still watch on TV so revenues will be secure & the players can just turn up & get their cut.
The heart & desire of the English sportsman is so fickle that we as England supporters are cheated compared to other sporting nations like Australia where playing for the national team truely means everything. Some people in England might think these crying Aussies are in sincere but having lived in Aus for 6 years I know they are genuine. As I walked the dog tonight around the local primary school, yes primary school, there was a 7 year old padded up with helmet being bowled quick deliveries in the nets by his dad & off breaks by his older brother, the Gabba tonight was holding a 20/20 game & 30,000+ were rushing to get in. Aussies love cricket, unfortunately in England, it is just a summer sport played in private schools & club cricket is just a snob ridden social networking jolly. I've played in England & I quit after a year because is was just not competative. I've played here & everyone can bat & bowl, it's friendly but hard.
I am glad England lost badly 5-0 today as a win would have papered over our failings. Please Mr Agnew carry on a public fight to get things improved. I know you fear that everything will be held behind closed doors but to make all the humiliation worth something you & others must champion England's cause. England supporters also need to get the message across that we can not be taken for financial & more importantly emotional rides any more but how we do this i do not know... signing off to 2009.
Complain about this postSome interesting end of series stats.......
Highest individual score in an innings:-
Collingwood 207 Eng
Best bowling figures in an innings:-
Hoggard 7/109 Eng
Complain about this postIt seems the time is ripe for a review (?mercy killing) of the whole structure of the modern English game. At the highest level the lesson must be learned from the notoriously ruthless Australians i.e. that you cannot allow sentiment, or conditions of travel. If someone is unfit, they must not be risked, and if someone will not tour unless the wife and kids come along from the start, then find someone who will.
At normal level there seems to be too much gash money swilling around, so that the richest clubs put out the best sides and are fielding sides of children to play in the lower leagues against blokes from the ordinary clubs.
As for the brilliant innovation of 20-20 cricket, I remember playing in 20 over cup games in youth club sides and as mid-week competitions which brought together all sorts of sides in an FA Cup style "village green-ers against the local posh clubs" in a wonderful melting pot. That was over 40 years ago.
Philip Fielder
Complain about this postIt's as true today as it was before Fletcher's glory years...you can't have a consistently top-level, competitive England squad without a top-quality, competitive first-class game. Doesn't matter whether DF rests players in the English summer or lets them play, the standard of county cricket is now so bad players aren't graduating through the ranks. Reduce the number of teams down to the international standard playing venues (10), can the rest, and make every game a selection dogfight for England places. The lack of hunger and preparation we've seen on this tour starts on wet afternoons in Derby, not when we get off the plane in Oz.
Complain about this postThe keys words in previous messages for me are intensity and professional.
The Australians want to win, almost NEED to win,
and do whatever is necessary to achieve that goal.
In England, we need to decide if we want to win the Ashes back in 2009, or whether just trying
to win is good enough.
How many Australian players will take part in the County Championship between now and 2009 ?
How many English players will play in the Pura Cup ?
We need to learn how to play hard cricket over 5 days.
Umpiring decisions will come and go, but bowlers need to learn that line and length never goes out of fashion.
Batsmen need to be prepared to bat for 7 / 8 hours, collecting scores of 150 / 200 or more.
The Australians HATE to get out, and that attitude is why we've been stuffed 5 - 0.
The English team, and the English game in general needs to learn some simple rules.
1). Don't give away your wicket easily.
2). Don't give away easy runs.
3). When you have the upper hand, drive home that advantage until you've won the game.
Congratulations to the victorious Australian team
Complain about this postand let's hope that the ECB learn from this tour.
Cricket, football, rugby - the malaise is the same throughout virtually all of English professional sport. They all love the glory and the money but when it comes to delivering for the long-suffering fans they fail abysmally.
Complain about this postMany of the previous comments refer to the partying, wives and girlfriends, book deals etc etc. Its time they all got down to some hard work and started to earn their money and show some guts.
Michael Holding commented last night how after a similarly disastrous WI tour that certain players were told in no uncertain terms where they stood and what they needed to do if they ever wanted to play for their country again.
I think there are many sportsmen ( no I re-phrase that - wannabe celebrities) who represent England at their sport who need to be told the same hard truths.
Also, it is no surprise that given the downgrading of competitive sport in schools that we have such a generation of sportsmen. Can you imagine an Australian sportsman being told that competitve sport was harmful and somebody might have their feelings hurt if they lost? Ricky Ponting, do you realise what you and your magnificent team have done to the feelings of the English cricketers? I can see it now - the ECB are already arranging for a team of counsellors to be on hand for the traumatised English team.
We were beaten by an excellent and worthy side and I salute Ricky and all his men - well done.
As for England (and I include the football and rugby teams) take stock, learn well, grow up and give us back our pride as a nation. We will not always win but at least show us your committment, pride and passion, both on and off the field. If you can't do that then get out and make way for some players who can.
Aggers as usual you are spot on with everything you say from your Australia learnt from 2005 sic.onwards. Its probably THE most galling fact for us older fans that playing for the England cricket team does'nt involve personal discipline ,personal sacrifice and an esprit de corps mentality. Like you say those that dont like it dont go. Mental strength and dedication count equally as much as talent in the biggest sporting contests. Please please on our- the fans and your listeners- behalf do all you can to get this wooly liberal attitude removed from the England Cricket set up. You ex pros have the contacts vote them in set up "ginger groups do whatever is necessary because this lot (ECB and whoever) are denying true England cricket fans the opprtunity of national success and the right to see a committed and determined team who win lose or draw give their all. Love to listen to your radio commentary great knowledge great presentation/delivery
Complain about this postas to be expected- 5-0
Complain about this posti think everybody in the cricket world could see this coming except for duncan fletcher
what is that man on?
right till the end he was harping on about the england preparation being fine and the team being up to the challenge
GOOD MORNING,MR FLETCHER!!!!!!!!!
i think the run-out of panesar this morning summed up the tour
symonds did what was expected in an exemplary method and the woeful misjudgement of the english,i mean,if you were to pick an aussie fieldsman to take on for a quick single,you couldn't possibly make a worse choice,.so for me symonds personified the ruthless perfect cricket of australia and the english personified slack play and terrible judgement
well done,aussie although i do admit i would have liked to see more of a contest
only reason they lost 5-0 was cricket has evolved!
Complain about this postworst teams might have lost 2-0!
draws are just not common on a track that helps the batter and gives a bit to the bowler, especially when u have two positive teams like aus and eng!
england were never gonna bowl them out twice cheaply and post substantial runs twice themselves, so how can people think they could ever get e result!
the mind boggles! gone of the old days of posting 90 runs a session......teams look to post 400 on a good day now!
I'm surprised everyone is so shocked at this result. All the pundits asked what the score would be before the series said 4-1 to Oz, so 5-0 is not far out! Not to say that many of the performances were extremely poor, but why the big surprise?!
Complain about this postWell we new this would happen,when will players wake up to their responsibilties it is after all they who are paid to perform,Flintoff should never have been captain it is too much for him and although I understand he does not want to blame any one he needs to get real and be more crirical of the non performers,he does not need to name names we know and the players know who needs to be put right.
Complain about this postIt is after all the English way we think we are better than we are, that goes for Footballers in particular with cricketers close behind.
The praising of the Barmey army is ridiculous they make me cringe who else would sing the national anthem,jerusalem etc when their team is getting hammered,Ponting was taking the perverbial when he praised these so called supporters,in football the team would have been booed off and quite rightly so.
Come on lets face it yes they were the better team,and we were beaten mentally before the first ball was bowled and even more so after Harmison had bowled it,Flintoff/Fletcher were to blame they gave him the first over,and as for Giles do me a favour no chance,Monty should have been there from the start.
Firstly Aggers I have really enjoyed your commentary on the ABC radio. Kerry O'keeffe and yourself are a great team - very informative and entertainly
I remember watching the 2005 series on late night TV (in Australia) thinking what a brave and comprehensive performance from England. Even though my team lost it was a great series.
After the loss I remember office I work in being excited by the 2006 /07 series we jsut couldnt wait for 15 months to arrive.
The office almost grinded to a halt to watch Harmisons first ball of the series such was the interest and anticipation.
Even after England were smashed in Brisbane (i went to Day 2) there seemed to a real chance of a tight series in Adelaide. After Day 5 in Adelaide England were broken and never recovered
I am really happy Australia won convincingly but a little sad the series was a one sided affair
Australia wanted to win and England were underprepared physically and mentally
Complain about this postI am not quite sure why people say this is the worst England side of all time, or at least to visit Australia.
How short people's minds are, regardless of the result, this side is infinately better than the dross that was sent over in the nineties and early 000's.
Devon Malcolm
Dean Hedley
Dominic Cork
Mark Ealham
John Crawley
Alan Mullaly
etc....
The list is bloody endless, and if anyone thinks that these players and the teams they played in are better than this current lot they are absolutely barking mad!!
Granted, they have collectively played poorly, but in addition, they have been given as little assistance as was possible, not to mentioned pandered, with which the blame should lie soley at the feet of The ECB and coach.
Not enough cricket, hit and giggles warm up games, players who haven't played in nearly a year, WAG's being over for practically the whole tour, stupidity over selection and captaincy, poor back up support evidenced by the debacle over Trescothick, the stupidity of Duncan Fletcher and The ECB in letting Cooley slip through their fingers, and lastly, The ECB not being harder on the players, this is not a jolly and winter break, it's a damn Ashes tour, and after all, it appears that The ECB have been too weak to ensure the relationship remains one of employer/employee not the other way round in the players favour. I don't blame the players, it is weak management.
Complain about this postthat was the most embarrasing spineless incompetent performance i have ever seen from a english cricket side in a test series
Complain about this postWell first off congratulations to the Aussies who were magnificent. True professionals who deserved to win.
England on the other hand. Well where do you start? Well you might identify the following:
- Resting on laurels after 2005 win. A battle won is worse than a battle lost.
- Believing the media hype. You are not footballers.
- Poor coaching. Fletcher should have a pay cut for this. Or be fired.
- Poor preparation. No excuses for this.
- Wrong captain. Top chap Flintoff. But he is no captain. Strauss should have been given the job. You captain with your head not your heart.
- Lack of professionalism from players. They look like they don't give a damn. And probably don't frankly other than Flintoff.
- Crazy selection. Leaving Monty out until the Third test was barking. Giles was a poor choice. What he's doing in Test cricket is beyond me.
- Playing unfit players. What was this about?
- Presence of WAGS dilutes the necessary focus and bonding needed to perform as a unit.
I could go on. But we all know that nothing will be learnt or done about this disgrace. We'll be back to the media hyper in eighteen months saying how sans Warne and McGrath we'll beat Australia. And what fools we will be.
Complain about this postI agree with you Jonathan, The cricket players are just the same as the pathetic soccer players. They start to believe all the comments in the press and think they just need to turn up. No prep work no commitment and no Balls. I live in New Zealand and see how the Australians love to WIN and unfortunatley cant see that attitude coming from the over paid England so called cricket players. We must play the guys that are in form not the name players who are full of themselves. The Barmy army were fantastic and give these ashes awesome support and atmosphere, just a pitty the players let them down badly.
Complain about this postAbsolutely correct Jonathon but should we the public/media take some of the blame for our reactions after the 2005 series. We were right to get excited over the result but it could just as easy have gone the other way.Then we all went wild and over the top, MBE's etc and the players themselves must have believed that they were world beaters. Last summers test should have been a walk up call but no we were just ticking over waiting for the Aussies. How the mighty have fallen
Complain about this postDepth Depth Depth!!! This is something completely foreign to english cricket.
I have been reading with interest the debates around the wicketkeeper position, lack of preparation, selection mistakes etc.
The one thing that has been overlooked (by public comment and yourself aggers) is that english cricket does not have the depth of players that can step into the side when injuries hit.
The ECB should be extremely worried and I support a review of this pitiful performance. I just hope the look at why there is not the calibre of players coming through the system (or lack of system as I think it is).
I am australian and congratulate the aussie test team on a job well done!
Complain about this postWe can go on about all those zillion reasons why England possibly failed - poor selection, lack of preparation, presence (or absence) of WAGs, player injuries, black cats crossing their paths, etc. etc. Still, the fact of the matter is that England are just an vastly inferior (and terribly overrated) side, at this level, and at this point of time.
At this level, you need a few batsmen who average above 50 in a series - not ones who make 4 fifties or one double-hundred in 10 innings. And you need bowlers who consistently take 4-5 wickets in an innings. Else, it hardly matters if they give it their all on the field (which I doubt they did, anyways). They'll still end up loosing, like they did. Time for a serious reality check.
Complain about this postI see the US congress has appointed a woman speaker, Germany has its first woman chancellor, France has a female presidential candidate and of course, Britain has already had been there, done that..
Why can't we get more female participation in cricket. Ok, our women's team is good, but why are we restricting our men's managerial team to men only. Surely, this is the time to appoint a women to replace Duncan Fletcher. Women would have much more backbone to counter Aussie arrogance..(I digress, but Robert Key in a dress would look good)
Complain about this postTo discover the English mentaity for this series a good comparison is the S Africa tourof Australia last season.
1st test in Perth SAfrica need 450+ to win with 4 1/2 sessions remaining. No chance of winning and 4/100ish at end of 4th day. Rudolph and Kemp dig deep and fight to the death to salvage a draw and only lose one wicket in the final day. SA got a draw in a test that was all but lost 3 1/2 days in.
3rd and final test in Sydney SA down 1-0. Playing very well and have upper hand in test. Rain comes in and suddenly the test is looking like a draw. Graeme Smith declares despite only haveing a lead of around 200 because there is only 1 day left and if they bat on the test will be a draw and they will lose the series 1-0. Despite having a nearly impossible task of bowling Aus all out under 200 in one day he realises that thisis the only chance (slim as it is) to win the match. History shows that Aus got the runs and won 2-0 but the attacking mentality and the never say die attitude of SA earned them respect amongst both Australian players and spectators.
Compare this to England this series. Harmison didn't want to eb there. Thoroughly underprepared. Last day capitulation in Adelaide . No bowler averaging under 30. Only KP averaging above 50 with the bat and constant low scores and low order failiures. England didn;t think they had to improve after 2005 despite their failings in the following series against SL, PAK, India etc. (5 wins from 18 isn't the formthat'll beat the world champs).
I didn't think England were ever going to win this series but to lose 5-0 with thoroughly convincing margins in each test was just poor.
Complain about this postAggers you are spot on with everything you say from your Australia learnt from 2005 sic. Its probably THE most galling fact for us older fans that playing for the England cricket team does'nt involve personal discipline ,personal sacrifice and an esprit de corps mentality. Like you say those that dont like it dont go. Mental strength and dedication count equally as much as talent in the biggest sporting contests. Please please on our- the fans and your listeners- behalf do all you can to get this wooly liberal attitude removed from the England Cricket set up. You ex pros have the contacts vote them in set up "ginger groups do whatever is necessary because this lot (ECB and whoever) are denying true England cricket fans the opprtunity of national success and the right to see a committed and determined team who win lose or draw give their all. We need a change at the top
Complain about this postAggers you are spot on with everything you say from your Australia learnt from 2005 Its probably THE most galling fact for us older fans that playing for the England cricket team does'nt involve personal discipline ,personal sacrifice and an esprit de corps mentality. Like you say those that dont like it dont go. Mental strength and dedication count equally as much as talent in the biggest sporting contests. Please please on our- the fans and your listeners- behalf do all you can to get this wooly liberal attitude removed from the England Cricket set up. You ex pros have the contacts vote them in and do whatever is necessary because this lot (ECB and whoever) are denying true England cricket fans the opprtunity of national success and the right to see a committed and determined team who win lose or draw give their all. We need a change at the top
Complain about this postHistory once again reminds us that most past great batsmen made poor England captains. Botham, Gower, Gooch and Atherton. Freddie just joins the list. Truth is, in this last test, those were the best players we could offer. I doubt by dropping 2 and adding a different 2 would have made any difference to the result. When Man U play Accrington, there is only ever one result.
Complain about this postShambolic - thats all that can be said.
The complete lack of preparation and both squad and team selection play a large part in England's heavy defeat.
You can't however take anything away from team Australia - and thats the big difference they played as a team. Whenever they were struggling someone raised their hand and took the game away from England. When England struggled they crumbled like Cheshire Cheese.
If one lesson needs to be learnt its about pulling together in adversity (we briefly learnt this skill in the series prior to the Ashes win, but have got too cocky).
We don't need major changes to the team but I think it is time for Duncan Fletcher to move on -he played a major role in turning English Test Cricket around, but I think he must carry the can for a big proportion of the problems on this Tour.
Role on the Summer (as we can right off the World Cup)!
Complain about this postEngland's upper echelon of management is wholly to blame for this debacle.
Australian coaches Rod Marsh and Troy Cooley had everything going in the right direction,the team winning and a whole bunch of young players coming along (eg Cook,Broad)
So then what does the ECB do?
Complain about this postDear Aggers,
Again it has been a pleasure listening to your dulcet tones for another Ashes series. i am sorry that you are not remaining in Australia for the pyjama series.
Thanks for another Ashes series and I will have to seek solace in listening to Kerry.
From an appreciative Australian.
Complain about this postI can't see the one day series or World Cup being any better, Jon Lewis is our best one day bowler but looking at the squad which is full of "younger" players he won't get a sniff until the games are meaningless.
Complain about this postAlways fascinating to read all the blogs and to hear the pain in everyone's posts. As a 'Pom' living in Sydney, let me tell you, it's just as painful from where I'm sitting.
I just wanted to make mention of the fact that what we have witnessed here these past couple of months is symptomatic of a general English sporting ailment. Just look at the Rugby World Cup. It takes us 2 decades, the alignment of planets, particular weather conditions and a whole heap of luck (remember that the Aussies pushed England worryingly close in that rugby final) to claw a win of any meaning, we celebrate like no tomorrow, and then we slump back into the quagmire of defeat ... probably for another 20 years. Key players get injured (Wilkinson, Vaughan, Rooney, etc), poor management decisions are made, general arrogance grips all concerned and we're thumped by all and sundry.
The problem with England is that we praise amateurism and still feel we rule the world. It's time to wake up and smell reality. Given our wealth and population size we are one of the most pathetic sporting countries on this planet.
I for one have had enough of the pain and suffering. I'm going to take Australian citizenship and start supporting a team and country that knows how to win.
Complain about this postJonathan, your article makes complete sense and should be copied to all members of this dreadful Ashes tour. England did not deserve a 5-0 thrashing but if you give the Aussies a sniff of victory and a glimpse of your own vulnerability and fear, then anything is possible. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. What would have happened if we had not lost the second test? Adelaide was a freak result. What would you have written if the series had been lost 3-0?
Complain about this postOne issue that I fail to understand is the ridiculously small amount of cricket played by the England team on tour (including during all five tests, none of which lasted 5 days). Whenever the Australians come to England it seems that they always have several warm-up games as well as a couple of County games before the Test series begins. How many serious games of cricket did the English test side play outside the Test matches? How many opportunities did out of form players and other squad players (Read for example) have to actually play some cricket in case they were called up due to injury? We should copy the Australian Cricket Board and be less than generous hosts and make visiting teams play Tests against us with minimal preparation OR expect to receive the same courtesy away from home as we afford the Australians. Who decides the tour itinerary? I imagine that the ECB has the opportunity to ratify the arrangements? If they did then more fool them!
As for the MBEs, even I (staunch monarchist and sports fan) was uneasy with the knee-jerk reaction of Tony Blair and his advisors to award gongs for the 2005 performance. That smacked then of political opportunism and how dreadful it feels today.
English cricket has to accept that our players are overpaid and under-performing possibly due to overplaying. An overhaul of English cricket is essential if we are ever going to see a genuine Ashes series ever again. At present the Aussies could send over their second XI and still expect to pommel us. The 2005 Ashes success was as much due to poor Australian cricket and injury to McGrath as to superlative cricket from our boys. That series was won by a whisker. Let's not forget that fact.
I am so pleased that I am in Budapest at the moment so that nobody over here can talk to me about the cricket!
Happy New Year Aggers!
England were simply not up to the task I'm affraid in the series.
What distrubs me is the amount of glossing over of the mistakes and poor performances by England players and management in interviews, which did not come over with any genuine sincerity. Spin is alive and well within the England set up off the cricket field it seems.
All credit must go to the Aussie's and well done to them on the whitewash, finally great coverage on Radio 5 Live Extra from the team.
Complain about this postDear TMS Team
It would appear that the England team have gone backwards drastically to the 'bad old days' when particularly the wheels would come right off under any pressure whatsoever.
Against the best team Australia, their attitude is everything and they never know when they are beaten, the 2nd Test which England somehow contirved to lose from a very formidable position to say the least, sums this attitude up the best.
Australia were very professional in their total approach, their batting was adventurous and always positive, with batting in depth with good support from Shane Warne at 8 and Brett Lee below and even Stuart Clarke proving troublesome at times.
Australia's bowling was consistently good, obviously too good and when the sessions really mattered, they had the fire power and control, bowling to good lines to put the England team under enormous pressure and unfortunately on this occasion, despite individual cameo performances, the England batting was not up to scratch and just simply too inconsistant.
One player of the series for Australia and scoop of the year for the Aussies was the recapture of Troy Cooley, only England would have allowed this to happen, particularly just before an Ashes series, this simply should not have been allowed to happen, just ask youself the simple question on how much information did the coach have at his finger tips!
England never, whether it be batting or bowling seemed to gell as a complete unit in this series and questions have to be asked why. Team selections for the early tests were somehat strange to say the least and why Giles played, having been overlooked during the two previous tour games, ahead of Pannesar is still a mystery. Surely if Giles was to play in the first test he should have played in the warm up games, isn't that logical.
I believe the Aussies couldn't wait for Read to keep wicket as well, as they knew then that the England tail definitely started at No 7 and with the structure of Read's batting and basic inability to have any straight defence he was an obvious target for the Aussie bowlers and they were able to apply full pressure as soon as Read walked to the wicket.
Gerraint Jones had actually kept quite well, remember his tumbling reaction catch off Monty in the 3rd Test and although anyone can bag a pair, Jones had not previously recorded a duck in his international career and when in form is a quality batsmen. However almost led by the Press calls it would appear Read was inserted for the 4th & 5th Tests, with the obvious shortcomings still evident for all to see,
The rest of the England batting was as a group disappointing, for a player such as Strauss how many times was he out either hooking or edging to slip after another flashing attempt. The occasion for Cook appeared to be one step too far too early and especially opening for the first time in his international career, how much of a difference would it have made if his steadiness could have been better served as a No 3, this would have then proved easier for Ian Bell to have slotted in middle order where he had all his success in the previous winter and summer, leaving KP & AF to destroy from the middle order.
Then as for the bowling, how many times was the bowling too short and too wide and allowing the Aussies too many four balls. In 2005 the bowling at times might have been short but it was delivered with menace & alot straighter, there just seemed to be a total lack of control.
The captaincy proved virtually impossible for Freddie and in hind sight to have England's leading player thrust into the limelight, with all the added pressure of being captain was simply too much. I'm sure fitness allowing Freddie will bounce back and be an even better player,as I'm sure he wouldn't want o go through such a mauling again in his career.
If Strauus had been captain with Freddie as his VC this would have been a better solution, would Strauss have allowed Australia to bounce back in the 2nd Test. I would have hoped not and the final straw was the naive field placings as Australia were chasing their target, why were England so defensive when their only chance was to take wickets and then put Australia under more pressure, very strange in deed.
So the balance of the England team is absolutely critical. A batting wicket keeper is a must and if Gerraint Jones remains out of form and I still believe with some confidence and support he is the best option, look at his 2005 contributions, valuable runs at critical times. What are the alternatives Pothas of Hants or Barry of Surrey. Who will make way for Vaughan's return, it has to be Bell, Cook or Collingwood! What if Trescothick is able to return! Strength in depth adds to competition and can only be healthy. Simon Jones would make a difference however he has only to date performed in one series and how long will his fitness last, very unfortunate and hopefully he will be OK this time around. However with Simon Jones in contention this still leaves a long tail and with Freddie apparently unable to bowl longer stints England would have to go in with 5 Bowlers. Just look and see how under bowled the England bowlers were compared to the Aussies, just look at the Old Guard of McGrath & Warne. Harmison still bowled the most overs for England and he was under prepared, which should have been known as Steve is the type of bowler who needs overs under his belt, as in previous seasons.
So who is going to keep wicket and bat or can Read bat at 8 or 9 if England can find some good bowlers who can bat, not too evident at present though! Monty, Hoggy and Harmy with the 4th seamer unable to bat must somehow be improved, so who is the new Freddie to lighten his load or even a spinning allrounder, can the Yorkshire legspinner prove successful, we shall see. However the planning for the next 2009 Ashes series needs to start now and one or two players may need to be grooomed for that series. Good old fashioned basics like line and length pressue bowling or good well directed aggression must be the order of the day. All the existing players should still be available for selection for the next sereis, something that the Aussies won't be able to do so hopefully these experience will stand England in good stead and with a couple of additions or so, allow England to strike back at the next chance.
It's not all doom and gloom and England do not become a bad side overnight however they must learn from this tour as Australia did previously after 2005 and do the basic things right and consistently and get the body language right & Positive
Geoff Stubbins
Complain about this postJonathan, your article makes complete sense and should be copied to all members of this dreadful Ashes tour. England did not deserve a 5-0 thrashing but if you give the Aussies a sniff of victory and a glimpse of your own vulnerability and fear, then anything is possible. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. What would have happened if we had not lost the second test? Adelaide was a freak result. What would you have written if the series had been lost 3-0?
Complain about this postOne issue that I fail to understand is the ridiculously small amount of cricket played by the England team on tour (including during all five tests, none of which lasted 5 days). Whenever the Australians come to England it seems that they always have several warm-up games as well as a couple of County games before the Test series begins. How many serious games of cricket did the English test side play outside the Test matches? How many opportunities did out of form players and other squad players (Read for example) have to actually play some cricket in case they were called up due to injury? We should copy the Australian Cricket Board and be less than generous hosts and make visiting teams play Tests against us with minimal preparation OR expect to receive the same courtesy away from home as we afford the Australians. Who decides the tour itinerary? I imagine that the ECB has the opportunity to ratify the arrangements? If they did then more fool them!
As for the MBEs, even I (staunch monarchist and sports fan) was uneasy with the knee-jerk reaction of Tony Blair and his advisors to award gongs for the 2005 performance. That smacked then of political opportunism and how dreadful it feels today.
English cricket has to accept that our players are overpaid and under-performing possibly due to overplaying. An overhaul of English cricket is essential if we are ever going to see a genuine Ashes series ever again. At present the Aussies could send over their second XI and still expect to pommel us. The 2005 Ashes success was as much due to poor Australian cricket and injury to McGrath as to superlative cricket from our boys. That series was won by a whisker. Let's not forget that fact.
I am so pleased that I am in Budapest at the moment so that nobody over here can talk to me about the cricket!
Happy New Year Aggers!
Like you Aggers, I hope that this is the catalyst for change in the England set-up. As an Englishman I am embarrassed and disillusioned by the team and game I love.
The Aussies got it spot on this time. In 2005 they had key members injured/out of form and I think that they were a tad complacent and didn't quite take the tour as seriously as they should. This was given 16 years of untroubled victories. We have slumped to this attitude after just 18 months. Those street parties of 2005 do seem rather silly now.
Defeat spurred the Aussies on to revenge and greater achievements, I dearly hope the same will happen to us.
Get Vaughan back, get Flintoff fit, get Harmison a one way ticket to Durham, just get the Ashes back.
Complain about this postBefore the aussies get too carried away, they should reflect that what we have seen this series is an ageing, not great, side comfortably beat a badly prepared and absolutely awful England team. No more, no less. Warne and McGrath are no fools and have timed their retirement wisely.
Complain about this postThis was a huge embarrassment, but not unexpected. We entered this series with a bowling attack that showed little threat and a batting line-up that became distinctly frail after the departure of Trescothick. We missed Vaughan terribly, but choosing a talisman as captain is never good idea. The damage that has been done to Flintoff's prowess as an all-rounder by the burden of captaincy can not be underestimated. Freddie is not a tactician and I feel sorry for him that he has had to suffer so during the tour.
Complain about this postJonathan, you are right about the team being pampered and unprepared. Teamwork was never really displayed, and this is crucial when playing the Aussies. It was summed up for me at SCG when Mahmood ambled back from his bowling run-up to miss Cooks throw at Warne's stumps. Had he been behind the stumps Warne would have been out and the result could have been different. Whatever Mahmood's feelings about his part in the series, he is still part of the squad and he has to play his part in the team. His "bowler's arrogance" was not needed here.
However much it hurts, the Aussies deserved their victory. We must now learn from this and build a system that encourages talent and makes us world class!
Our thrashing was due to misplaced loyalties by The Coach ,the captain and the Sectors ,combined with lack of ruthlessness by the England captain in situations where they were on top. Why declare when you know the Aussies are capable of scoring centuries down to batsmenn no 8...We were beaten by a fantastic side.
Complain about this postIn the modern game perhaps the best there has ever been.
England were never going to wein this series but the players mentality since the 05 series has been nothing short of disgraceful. 5 wins from 19 isn't it? Compare this to Australia who have not lost since that series and have drawn but one.
The fact is Aus were complacent and thoroughly underprepared for the 05 series. During the preceeding one day series Pnting joked that losing an ODI to Englnd was more embarassing then their loss to Bangladesh. Symonds turned up drunk to a match. Only Warne turned up. Despite all this and the other attitude failings in that series England only won 2-1. This attitude also took years of world dominancne to set in.
England on the other hand took 1 series to become arrogant, careless and cocky. They didn't turn up to play and got humbled 5-0.
At least the rugby side won the world showcase of their sport. The cricket side won one series against one nation (albeit the best nation) and were on top of the world (this is despite them being the worst ODI side in the world (out of the half-decent cricket nations).
Australia are the best in the world because they have dominated both test and ODI for years. One series does not make a great side. its just a shame England can't get their heads around it.
Complain about this posti cannot believe that everyone is overreacting so much
i think we should shoot them all
Complain about this post"What went wrong" many people are saying including Aggers and the many blogs on this site. The question should be "What went right" ?
Answer : Absolutely Nothing ! I struggle to remember a positive to come out of this tour. I remember watching the Ashes in 1990/91, 1994/5, 1998/9 and 2002/3 in Oz. All of these tour were very disappointing and i remember feeling low. But these all pale in insignificance to this tour. At least in the others we won the odd Test, we had some positives and occasionally we showed a bit of fight. We showed none of these here. It was very very embarrassing.
Mr G
Complain about this postIn response to the criticism of Michael Vaughan, he couldn't win could he? (bit like England really), if he was in the dressing room he was a distraction and now he is being criticised for NOT being there!
Complain about this postAs ever, we went over the top with our celebrations at winning the ashes in 2005. It was a very close thing and we could well have lost a couple of those tests. So in reality we weren't as good as we thought we were. Certainly not good enough for gongs - but that's another debate.
I would have liked the players to acknowledge this and have less of the "there are things we have leraned" and more of the " we were a disgrace and we owe it to oursleves and our supporters to start to earn the money we are paid" More humility rquired.
I personally think that the honouring of the players ie OBE, MBE etc. when the Ashes were won lin 2005 did no good to the players, they went across with the imprssion that they were the "bee's knee's" on big salaries with long contracts and came short!! They call themselves professionals, bring on the cricketer and lets get back to grass roots cricket!
Complain about this postJohn 238, I take it you believe Ali was right to keep fighting rather than retire when the time was right. McGrath and Warne aren't simply retiring cos they've won 5-o..the announced retirement before this last test. They are both fiercely competitive and obviously have a considerably greater knowledge of their bodies than you do. The idea that their retirement shows some kind of lack of spirit is ridiculous. Also as far as I can tell winning the Ashes easily is generally a routine matter for the Australians.
Complain about this postAs a counterpoint to the doom and gloom, we have to remember just how good Australia are and how invincible they have been at home for the last decade or so.
I lived in Sydney for four years, and was there when South Africa were the number two ranked team in the world. There was huge anticipation when SA came to play in Australia, but they were utterly thrashed 5-0. Then Australia went to SA and beat them again - I think it was 5-0 again, and South Africa were simply unable to compete. They were clearly the second best team in the world at the time, but were not in the same class as the Aussies.
Whilst much of the criticism and soul-searching is justified, I think we have to admit that the 2005 Ashes was something a bit special. It wasn't a flash in the pan, but it was a case of English players playing to the peak of their powers and a whole country getting energised behind their cricket team. This combination managed to create pressure and doubt in the Australian team, and we pulled off a great win.
Everyone said they thought this series would be close, but I feared it wouldn't be, simply because I saw how South Africa were demolished. I felt there were three key players if England were even going to be competitive; Trescothick, Flintoff with the bat, and Harmison. No need to add comment to that.
Australia will come back to the pack now, with Warne and McGrath going, and England have a bright future with young players and others like Broad / Tremlett coming through.
We needn't be so despondent.
Complain about this posti've said before this strip had the feel of a holiday camp. the players didn't beleive they could win.
Complain about this posti didnt either.
but i expect them to be professionals and give 100 % . they didn't.
flintoff in his soundbites after the game talks of learning, a young side , will get stronger etc.
UTTER CRAP!
his motivation is to keep team england together, jobs for the boys , playing with mates.
with central contracts, performance does not really come into it. once you get in the england team . thats it . you're in. regardless of how well you perform.
this is why england cricket is so mediocre.
then look at the one day side. ranked 8th in the world?
yet the english team is the best paid and rewarded in the world!
Going into this Australian summer the Aussie boys set themselves 3 goals.
1. Win the Champions Trophy (Check that one off)
2. Regain the Ashes (BIG tick there)
3. 3rd consecutive world cup (preparation starts in the upcoming tri-series which you can be assured our Aussie boys will take VERY seriously and consider nothing short of a convinving series win a failiure)
Who's going to bet against us making it 3 out of 3?
Complain about this postAggers et all,
Lets forget the MBE's, forget the preperation, or lack of it, forget everything that surrounded the cricket for one second. The one thing England now have is a base. They can only improve, and a 5-0 killing is almost a perfect start for them for 2007. They have 2 series coming up, against teams that can perfrom brilliantly, or poorly, so they will be evenly matched to them. I think the first thing they need to do, when the seasons kicks off again, is play England v England A matches. 1 dayers, 4 dayers, and have a little tournamnet. The best and worst performers switch sides and try and play with a new team. See how they adapt the their new colleuges. This is the only way the team can improve. Its not good enough to keep saying, the Aussies outplayed us. That would go down a bit better if we felt the team actually played at their best, which obviously wasnt the case. The team can only get better, thats something atleast.
Lets hope the 1 dayers arent as painfull to watch!!
Complain about this postThe rsponse to John 238 from myself, I think I forgot my name on the post
Complain about this postAll of this is true, but surely the big message that comes out of the scorecards is that going into a test match with no more than four people who can hit the ball is a recipe for disaster. Strategies have to be developed for ensuring that bowlers and lower-order batsmen have plenty of experience facing good bowlers.
Complain about this postWE missed Tres badly...he would have given the backbone to the side we needed. You have to get a start against this side if you are to have any chance.
Complain about this postHey Aggers, loved your commentary on the ABC, especially with 'Skull' O'Keefe.
Did you get to say 'Bollocks' on air?
Great cricket, played in an even greater spirit. Hats off to Flintoff and his 'lads' for forming the guard of honour for Langer today. Jolly good show, what!
Complain about this postHas Australia become better? Turning evenly poised tests in a very short time. We'll never see the likes of it again I think.
to 238 John: What a load of rubbish. You think a 5 - 0 win away from home is what makes a great side. Well what would be the point in winning 5 - 0 away to the current side (not berating them but it wouldnt be a contest). Australias percentage win away is 55.98% - the highest.
Why do people roll out the WI when comparing to this Australian Side? Look at the WI versus Aussie statistics and you will notice that Aust comes out on top as a team. WI had great individuals but not great teams. Australia has a great team with everyone contributing.
Although you cant compare teams from different eras, I would say without a doubt this Australian team would wipe the floor of any WI team.
Complain about this postWe did not lose The Ashes, we surrendered them.
I also think that those members of the England squad who only 16 months ago were awarded Honours when winning The Ashes (something I didn't agree with at the time), should now in all honesty return them or, if they haven't the courage to do that, have them withdrawn.
Previous Ashes winners were not rewarded in this fashion.
Complain about this postTalking of stats, I reckon four bowlers taking 20+ wickets in a 5 match series is some achievement. Happened before?
Complain about this postHit the nair on the head as usual Aggers.
I don't know whether to cry at our shambolic state or laugh at the gross incompetencies that are endemic in our cricket, from players to selectors to administrators.
I mean things like not keeping Cooley...it boggles the mind!
Why can't the captain and the coach come out and say we weren't good enough, we have to go back to the drawing board? Saying anything else is laughable because we can clearly see the truth out on the field.
The first step to rectifying a gross error, an abject failure, is to acknowledge it.
I fear 2005 was a one-off. Both preparation and team selection (both selectors and coaches/captain) have been off for this series.
Complain about this postFirstly, hats off to the Aussies. They were hungrier, far better prepared, and really wanted the Ashes back.
Now to England - so many places one could start. Having followed the series like everyone else, the place I'd like to start with is the national pride. The honour of pulling on your country's shirt seems to be diluted as the game gets more 'professional' (read players get paid more). This is one of the reasons why Monty endeared himself to the public - my god - when he takes a wicket he reacts just like any fan would playing in their first test for their country.
Outside of this though, there is one point I would like to make which deviates a little from the discussion, and that is the end of match / day interview. Speak to an Aussie and he'll tell you what happened in the day, whether they were good or bad you'll get it straight.
England seem to come out with a carefully prepared media statement for the chosen player to communicate that often bears no relation to what has actually just happened. I swear they spend more time planning these end of day interviews sometimes than planning game tactics. This has now become so common that every interview ends with the commentator saying something along the lines of "I'm sure there's a different message in the dressing room".
The trobule with this approach by England is that
a) it really annoys the fans and
b) I think some of the lpayers actually start believing the position they've been told to maintain.
Steve Harmison's comments at the end of day 2 or 3 were a joke. He refused to offer any explanation as to why his form had been poor and slowly improved. Does he know or doesn't he? If he doesn't know, he shouldn't even be considered for the team - bowling is his job and with the help of the huge coaching resources he should be able to identify exactly why he isn't performing. If he does know, then why not say? What harm is it going to do, other than admit that something isn't working?
Not singling out the same player, but going back to the original point about really wanting to play for your country, Harmison pulling out of the World Cup squad at this late date is an absolutel disgrace. Everyone knows that he's just homesick and wants to get back as quick as he can and he hates touring. Even though they're not much better at the moment, can you imagine Wayne Rooney retiring from international football just before the next football world cup? He's letting the whole team down, and based on this and his performances in Aus, I'd drop him from the whole team and central contract altogether. He epitomises everything that is wrong with the team.
Complain about this postEverybody has about covered it for me....
Lack of planning
Lack of Intensity
lack of Professionalism
too much pandering to egos.
However a few people for me cannot be criticised flintoff ... always tries 125% even if he is not fully fit... but we cant always rely on him a few other people need to stick their hands up.
Bell/Pieterson have generally batted well but have lacked the support from everybody else. Panesar ... always enthusiastic always give of his best... must have been distraught originally not being picked, but showed great professionalism by not moaning.
Hoggard another 125% man
Whilst you could go thru individuals and pick on various short comings or failings for me Steve Harmison is our biggest worry... on his day as destructive a bowler you will find .... but as a professional has a very poor attitude if he thinks that the 1st Ball he bowled in the series is acceptable at a professional level then he needs to give up.!!!!
Picking up on what somebody has said earlier the technique for bowling is the same wether you are playing 1 day cricket or Test match cricket... he has retired/ or is retiring from 1 day cricket.. strikes me the lad doesnt want to put in the effort and unfortunately will never be remembered as a great Cricketer just another waste of potential.... lets hope Im wrong but my gut tells me not.... lets put the effort into finding somebody who does want to learn ,who does want to play all forms of cricket and wants to be the best there has been...Like warne and McGrath so obviously do....
Complain about this postAnd I know ive said a lot but my last comment is on Paul Collingwood.... a great fielder ,a man with great determination but take away 1 innings ( a very good innings at that ) and he would be considered to be dropped.. please dont let 1 innings mask his obvious technical shortcomings at this level of the game... he is allowed to have a dip of form , because he has scored well all of last year... but the real great players dont dip so badly.....
They should be forced to ride an open top bus through London and to complete their humiliation stop off at the palace to give their gongs back
Complain about this postI have not agreed with much that Aggers has said during this tour, but he is absolutely correct to say that some good must come from this humiliation. The whole structure of English cricket must be reviewed for us to have any chance of competing in the future. However I fear this will not happen because any review of the tour will be carried out by the people who have contributed to the failure, and they are more interested in protecting their positions rather than forcing through change.
Complain about this postI can't remember if we have actually won a game in Australia this tour? but I'm certain we won't win many one dayers, if any,because the one day side is in a worse state than the test side!
what can i say? bloody hopeless! what a difference can 16 months make or break?
Complain about this postStan Elder (post 250), you are spot on. "To celebrate them as national heroes (in 2005) was absurd"
I thought so at the time - I'm English and was as happy as anyone when we won the series, but I had to switch off as they cavorted through the tickertape at the Oval that evening (was that drunk bloke from the morning-after really made captain?)
Then they lost their hunger, focus and professionalism during the one-month lap of honour that followed.
90% of cricket is played in the head, and so it is back to the drawing board.
Complain about this postI'm not so sure that this series whitewash should be regarded as one of the greatest disasters to befall English cricket for 80 odd years.
I reckon this all-time great Australian side would have done the same to most of the other test playing nations too.
Look at their record of soundly beating all comers over the last 18 months. At least England should find things a bit easier in their next few series...
Complain about this postA very good Aussie side (on and off the pitch) made to look even better by a poor England side that lacked spirit and determination on the pitch after promising so much in all the pre-match media interviews.
Remember the London celebrations of 2005. Perhaps we should parade the current bunch (management included) round London when they get back in an open top bus, so we can pelt them with rotten tomatoes.
However, the writing was on the wall after the winter 2005/2006 Asian tour !
Complain about this post
Complain about this postDoes MBE mean 'More Bloody Excuses'?!! Take note England's (Mis)Management Tour organisers.
#267
Well nobody else was going to do it.
Hoggard ended up with a very average average of 37.
Stuart Clark ended up with 17, McGrath with 23.
Complain about this postThe whole episode from start to finish was a farce and a wholely embarrassing one at that. You could suggest a myriad of reasons as to why this tour ended in humiliation, from the preparation, the performance of key players, the lack of any sting in the English batting tail, the woeful bowling, the timid nature of the English players, the pure class and aggression of the Australians, the presence of wives and girlfriends early on, the distance from home etc etc etc.. I could go on and on, but are any of them the reason. NO. They are ALL the reason. It's a combination of everything that has led to the battering English cricket deserved! I was just as proud as the rest of the nation when we finally brought the ashes back home in 05, but that couldn't be a more distant memory now. Even after that final nail in the coffin and the acceptance of a 5-0 whitewash, Freddy Flitoff didn't look overly upset or concerned. Ok.. so I wouldn't have been blubbing, but I would have been livid with the inept performances the whole team had showed and had a steely determination in my eyes to redress the balance. AND MEANT IT. But therein lies the true cause of the problem. The Ausies were a class act from the first ball to the last stroke of the willow, they wanted it from the minute the game at the Oval ended in 2005 and have gone out of there way in effort and determination to get it. They deserve it and they should be applauded for there resolve. We were unprepared and complaicent from start to finish and frankly looked bored and bemused at times. Harsh words and a few size 9's up the backsides of several key figures are needed now.. and for the foreseeable future or this will become the first of many hammerings we suffer at the hands of the Australians (and probably other nations too!) PS.. there's a reason this country is now referred to simply as Britain now-a-days... it's because the rest of the world and ourselves to some degree, have come to realise there is nothing "Great" about us in the sporting domain!! Nothing at all....
Complain about this postThank god that's all over then. My biggest fear now is that we get a whole raft of books of the tour. A period of quiet humility from this lot would be good, although I dare say that is too much to expect. If any of them do publish, I hope their thoughts are as well-received and as successful as Ashley Cole's literary tour de force!
Complain about this postTo represent your country is a privelige, for which you should have to demonstrate sacrifice.
Complain about this postHardworking people up and down the land expect that the team representing them are putting in the same graft, if not more.
This is what the Aussies did.
How many times did Flintoff go to see Elton John?
Spot on as ever Aggers. I just wanted to thank you and the rest of the team for making a pretty miserable experience bearable, bordering on the enjoyable at times. Your double act with Boycott is assuming legendary status now and his comment about MBEs and his cat will be one of the funniest things I hear all year.
Complain about this postat least the agony was over quickly last night and the sleep deprevation can end for now . i thought the lack of sleep was making me halucinate, but my wife assures me that the nightmare 5-0 really happened .
All that has been said about selection,preparation etc. is certainly true but with the exception of the first test we have had chances to take the initiative in every test and have just not seized any of them - we were not strong enough mentally when it really mattered and that is where the aussies really beat us - in the mind
it is such a shame that we were so meek in our surrender when we waited so long to win them back - oh well, at least in 2009 i can get some sleep !!
Complain about this postAggers and Boycott's voices need to be heard where it matters. This series was lost on that day of hubris after the last series was won. The bulk delivery of MBEs (Money Before Excellence?) set the foundations for the whitewash. I am tempted to say that it should be OBEs all round (Orful Beneath Expectation?) for 'making history'. Awards and celebrations should be for sustained excellence rather than a one-off wonder. May the road to 2009 be a chastening case of sackcloth and Ashes.
Complain about this postComment 253 - Nick Mermagen.
Spot on with points 5 and 6!!!
ECB have a chat with Nick, this is exactly what should come out of any post ashes review.
I am australian and Nick you are exactly right.
If I could only add one more point and that is that cricket should be on free to air TV not sky sports (pay tv). You need to get more people watching the sport as this will increase the sports profile and get more kids playing cricket.
Complain about this postWell - a one-off win followed by a whitewash.
So when does Flintoff give back his MBE?
Maybe he will hope to redeem himself in next year's Strictly Come Dancing
I'm afraid the English are one-hit-wonders. (Soccer 1966, Rugby Union 2003 and Ashes 2006).
I am proud to be British, and I am proud to be Australian. I'm just glad I'm not English just because I was born here.
Complain about this postI am not an avid follower in the sense of staying up all night to watch the tests. But I have watched the occasional highlights and saw a dismissal caught by Pieterson off Mahmood when, far from the usual 'high fives' and other such jinks, the two could hardly bear to acknowledge one another. This gives the lie to assurances from the captain and others that the spirit is great within the dressing room. It is clear to even the uninformed observer that things have been strained between the players themselves.
Complain about this postEngland made the same mistake as Sir Clive Woodward did when selecting for the Lions tour of New Zealand. As the initial selection was made trying to get "the old guard" who had done so well prviously to repeat their herculian effort of times gone byand the picking of half fit players.
Complain about this postSame result a whitewash!!
As a Englishman living in Oz, this is very hard to take, a loss I can take but the total capitulation in this series is something else. Most has already been said but I wanted to add that our last 5 averaged under 35 runs (not including the 2nd test) and Australia's last 5 averaged nearly 140 runs!! Maybe we should be looking for bowlers who can bat as well for the next series.
Complain about this postHi,
I'm disappointed at the way England played, but with the preparation being so poor, and our best players either off from injury or just coming back, we were never going to be strong enough to give ourselves a decent chance.
However, I do think that the very public slaying the English team gets from English media can't help the boys feel that the country is backing them. We have reporters who know nothing about cricket, commenting on a 'poor performance' one day out of a five days test, only to then have to change their opinion the next day as the team recovered. If these people knew anything about cricket, they would be able to reserve judgement until at least England had batted AND bowled!
While I think the celebrations last year did a lot to damage the spirit of the team, by getting them involved in areas of celebrity that they were actually quite uncomfortable with, I do think it was a fitting tribute to a team who had been amazingly consistent over the previous couple of years and they deserved the accolades. it was just a shame the press didn't understand what they had done, before the Ashes!
The Barmy Army are fantastic and just what the boys need - true cricket fans who support our boys regardless of current form. They will be back and so will the team - better than ever!
Complain about this postRight on Jonathan. Did we not learn from the mistake in 1981 when we made our best all rounder the captain>> No offence Freddie, but you're not a captain. Fletcher should be sacked for not using Monty, and sticking with the awful Giles, and there should be no wives, girlfriends or families allowed until the series is won.
This is not a holiday for the players and families, it is a sporting occasion where these guys are representing the nation, and getting paid handsomely for it. You've let us down badly - very badly.
Complain about this postI'll start by thanking the Aussies. It's been a few years since I was last out there and I miss the place. Hoping to travel out there with my new wife next year. But I'm thanking you not for giving us a demonstration of true cricketing professionalism but for giving us a hiding. Anything less than that and us Poms would have come away thinking maybe things aren't so bad.
But there is something rotten in the domestic game in the UK. As posts here have pointed out, counties are more interested in the shorter forms of the game than in the longer form. Personally I don't see a problem with that - the summer is long enough to accommodate both. What we really need is a short, sharp championship. Merge the counties into six teams. Play them at the best venues in the country i.e.: test grounds. Play twice over a short period and then finish with a five day game for the top two.
Yes, it is the Pura Cup, but it will breed better cricketers. Too many "professionals" in the UK are milking limited talent. With only six teams, there would fewer players on the payroll, so only the best would survive. And the best would also, by default, have to have the guts, desire and determination to get to the top. And that would breed mentally tougher players.
This format would allow for the long form game to be completed within a maximum of twelve weeks. And since there will be numerous grounds around the country lying vacant during this period, guess what, short form cricket could be played at the same time. Meaning teams of specialist one day players that could be used to enhance our test match team in the international one day arena.
There can be no debate - this has to happen! The county game is lazy, lethargic and pointless and it breeds cricketers to match! The one day game is about money and the people playing it are constantly only interested in money. By adopting this approach we will end with a much smaller pool of crickters who play firstly because they love the game. That's a great start for building a test team and with a shorter county competition we give plenty of time for the top players to be coached and involved in the England setup. In fact, there may not even be a need for central contracts any more as the domestic season would conflict less with the test calendar!
On a final note, I'd just like to dispel the "myth" of the Barmy Army. Yes, when it began it was a hardcore group of real fans that travelled the world to support England and, through cameraderie and good humour, became a vital, amusing and witty addition to the England "squad". But as with all good things, commercialism took hold. Somebody saw a way of making money and now the Barmy Army is no more than an 18-30 Cricketing holiday. They're not even witty any more.
Contrary to popular belief, the real fans are those of us who stayed at home. Not because we wouldn't have given our right arm to go out to Oz but most, like myself, couldn't afford to go out there. So we sit up until the early hours praying that our team shows a bit of fight and, disgusted when they don't, vent our frustrations on the Beeb forums. Hands up any other writer on these forums - Aussie, Brit or any other nation - who wouldn't have boo'd their team off the pitch at the end of the Adelaide test, or any subsequent one? Is it because we don't support them or are fickle? No, it's because it's the only way we can let the team know that they haven't tried hard enough.
So when the Barmy Army say they're still behind the team the inference is that we aren't. Sloblocks. The difference is that we don't have a commercial interest in seeing the fans continue to invest money in the team, whilst the ECB, the Barmy Army and the sponsors all do.
So if you're a real fan of English cricket, vent your anger and frustration. Demand change. And don't stop until we see the whole organisation of the English game changed for the better.
Complain about this postThere is a fine dividing line between success and failure. England were three runs from going 2-0 down in 2005, and contrary to many opinions of Australians on this blog, we were not lucky to scrape home 2-1. The weather saved Australia from a 3-1 defeat so get your facts right. England's win was pretty comprehensive. As long as we learn our lessons, like Australia did after 2005, I believe England will come back fighting in 2009 after this humiliation. Those of you who believe it will be another Australia walkover will be very much mistaken.
Complain about this postthis 5-0 whitewash effectively invalidates England's Ashes win of 2005. the critics will have a field day putting that victory down to Glenn McGrath's injury, bad umpiring and controversy surrounding the 12th man (i.e. Gary Pratt's run out of Ponting).
Plus the two games we won (Edgbaston & Trent Bridge) could've so easily been won by Australia.
The best sides prove even in defeat their world class attributes. England most definetly did not do that this tour.
Complain about this postI don't mind England losing (well I do), but what really gets my goat and disgusts me is the way that they just capitulated.
If they play well and lose I can cope, but they just did not play well, there was the odd bit of individual spirit but as a team they folded. There seemed to be no desire to win, and no ability to play as a team, and this went from the selectors down through the captain to the newest players.
We clearly have some fantastic players, but we need to get them motivated as appatantly the honour of playing for your country and having the hopes and dreams of their fans is not enough for them (leaving out their generous salaries).
It is time for a public autopsy of this tour, it is the fans who keep cricket going and we deserve a very good explanation as to why it went so wrong (I think we all know why, the article above pretty much spells it out, but it would be good if the powers that be could admit to their failings and implement ways to make sure this never happens again), and an apology.
Complain about this postNo heart, no drive, no show of patriotism much like the English footballers and rugby players
Complain about this postwell if you poms keep moving out to Oz there will be no one left to play
Complain about this postThis is a big wake up call.
Lets see if the poms can do what the aussies did when they lost the ashes.
Maybe they can, maybe they will crumble and hide under the blankets.
That is what makes a team.
Are you up to it Freddie.maybe not too, nice a guy, everyone likes him, he does the right thing, but can he win the ashes.
There is no mongrel in him!!
Stand up and be counted or leave it to someone else.
Give us a game in 2009 for the sake of the game!!!!!!
Open question ..If thats the best you can do dont bother!!
We want a competion not a whitewash!!
Complain about this postAggers, you are bloody spot on mate. If some fool in the ECB set up fudges an inquiry into why we were so bad on this tour I'll sue them for every penny I wasted on following this poor England team Down Under!
Complain about this postYes England have lessons to learn but already less that 12 hours after their victory they are talking about 2009 and that is their first mistake. They should be focusing now on the ODI series and the World cup and the Test team should be concentrating on the West Indies in the summer. They should be starting to make plans for Lara & Co. This to me (apart from Australia being very good in all departments) is teh main reason for thei demise. They treated Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka with disdain and a serious lack fo respect - if they had have treated each series with the same intensity and desire then there would hav ebeen noproblem going home for 3 days after ICC Trophy as they would not have had to lift themselves up!
Also why, why, why, why, why was Andrew Flintoff the skipper. I have lost so much respect for this guy!!! Yet this morning he is saying he wants to remain in the job- wise up Freddie, you're a joke. And becuae the media and the ECB have put you on such a high pedestal they wont knock you. So I will tell you what will happen: Your ankle is going to mysteriously flare up, you will have to go home early and play no part in the ODI series and therefore the transition back to Sir Vaughan will be smooth and wee Freddie wont lose face!
Complain about this postIt's sad but it should put English Cricket geeks heads into perspective as to were we really are in the real world.
Complain about this postI don't think England have all that much to worry about. The state of interntional test cricket at the moment is so weak that they should be able to pick themselves up and continue to dominate most of the other test nations, especially at home.
As for Australia, they'll struggle to replace both Warne and McGrath, maybe even Langer too. Forget all the talk about them having several young guns in reserve - they don't. The old sheffield shield competition is not that strong.
Complain about this postA few positive things to come out of this series:
1 The privilege of watching one of the best sides in cricket history playing at the top of their game
2 The emergence of Monty Panesar onto the international scene
3 The spot-on analysis of Jonathan Agnew
4 Geoff Boycott's ridiculing of Andrew Symonds being stuffed down his throat
Errr... that's it!
Complain about this postAggers is spot on as he tends to be 95% of the time. It worries me that Boycott and now Aggers are trying almost it would seem, to convince themselves that ther will be a proper inquiry into this debacle. Could it be that at heart they belive the whitewash will be whitewashed?
I think the point on the PCA is also apt. Sports players in this country lead a cosseted lifstyle- MBE's, WAG's, great salaries. its about time they started finding a backbone and acknowledge where their priorities lie.
Complain about this postI feel everyone is missing the point. History tells us we very, very rarely win against Australia,
Complain about this postpractically never in Australia itself. I've been saying this for years that the ONLY way to win in Australia is to totally change the mindset. We need an English side to be playing competitive cricket in Australia so we can blood ALL our players in the art of Australia wickets, weather, attitude, grit, etc every single year. I'm sure the Aussies would love it if we had a side playing Sheffield Shield cricket every year, even more chances to thrash us!! Also, I think the side that plays in Australia should bear very little resemblence to the side that we play elsewhere. We need players who are very, very mentally tough. That completely rules out most of this side. We need 11 batsmen with at least one county hundred to their name, if not don't select them. And that must include the number eleven. I say this because the way our tail has wagged & always wags in Australia is appalling. We need to know that if the top order fail we have people who can bat all the way down. We can't bowl out Australia twice with our best bowlers so you need to approach it from a different angle. We need 11 batters & 10 bowlers because otherwise we will NEVER beat Australia in Australia again. If you are mentally tough enough you can bat & bowl for your country, we have players who struggle to do one of these things. I would rather have 11 fighters who will fight like crazy & maybe sneak a 1-0 victory then the yellow bellys out their at present.
I thought Fletcher's attitude was disgraceful. He spoke as if England had been beaten say 3-1 or 2-1, not drubbed 5-0. He seriously has to consider his position. There are 5 main points we can learn from this series. Firstly, Flintoff doesn't have the intellectual capability to be a captain- he speaks and acts like a drunken pub cricketer. He is a great player but has not the wit or imagination to set good fields or make timely interventions when bowlers aren't performing. Captaincy requires a tactical brain- Brearly had one, so does Vaughan- they realise that neanderthal posturings about Queen and Country don't get you anywhere- it takes sense, lateral thinking and sensitive but firm leadership. Flintoof has not the subtlety for any of those three.
Secondly, Geraint Jones should not be playing test cricket. His batting and glovework are sub-standard for a team supposedly the second best in the world. Read CAN bat against lesser opposition- which England WlLL face and his glovework is excellent. That brings me to the third lesson- to play just four bowlers instead of five. If Read is to play, the batting needs strengthening so there could be a place for Vaughan when he comes back and as an opener too- where he scored his runs. We can have three seamers, a spinner and Paul Collingwood who can get a bit of swing with his medium pace. It's really all we should need. Fourth lesson, we need to acclimatise more and have decent four day matches against Australia' state sides who are already hard opposition.
And finally, we have to restore discipline with the batting. Pietersen's attitude is atrocious- he doesn't give a damn about staying in to protect the tail, he is a one-trick pony, unable to revert to cautious play when it's needed. Playing reckless, attacking criket when following on is a recipe for disaster. You don't have to be overtly defensive, just put away the bad ball. Instead, we see a lack of application, excused by the pathetic excuse "well it's my natural game". Against Australia, what is natural has to be modified.
Australia are a great side but they are not the team of 2001. Taht they still won is testament to their motivation, organsiation and to our sheer incompetence.
Complain about this postTotally agree with comments inpost number 217. I think both Strauss and Flintoff would both have performed better if Strauss had been captain. Overall team performance would have been better too.
Captain's role crucial in test cricket in term of tactics/strategymotivation-remember Mike Brearley? I think Strauss far superior to Flintoff in all these aspects.
Think Robert Key has been treated misreably unfairly by England management (clearly not only one) Australians rated him highly on the last tour. I think would have scored more runs than Cook (who is a very good prospect).
Clearly lots of other issues which have already been exhaustively discussed.
Complain about this postTotally agree with comments inpost number 217. I think both Strauss and Flintoff would both have performed better if Strauss had been captain. Overall team performance would have been better too.
Captain's role crucial in test cricket in term of tactics/strategymotivation-remember Mike Brearley? I think Strauss far superior to Flintoff in all these aspects.
Think Robert Key has been treated misreably unfairly by England management (clearly not only one) Australians rated him highly on the last tour. I think would have scored more runs than Cook (who is a very good prospect).
Clearly lots of other issues which have already been exhaustively discussed.
Complain about this postI've been fearing the one-dayers since before the ICC CT. And this Winter is already a nightmare. Things can still get worse.
Complain about this postAfter our success in 2005 I was very dissapointed when SKY got the rights to all the TV coverage. The thought that there would be no more terrestial TV cricket was soul destroying. OK, Jonathan, TMS is brilliant (I listen to you but watch the telly - or used too!) but I knew I was going to miss the pix on the box...until this year. Thank God I didn't have to sit through the debacle that was the 2006/7 Ashes and actually WATCH it! Listening was bad enough. As you say, there are so many lessons to be learn't...let's just hope we learn them!
Complain about this postI 100 per cent agree with Jon Agnew. If England can learn from this hammering 5-0 hammering then they will improve in future but the truth is will the ECB, the players, the selectors, the coach really learn from it? I think there has to be changes in personell. England need a new coach, new captain (not necessarily Vaughan because of fitness concerns, I'd revert to Strauss), a new chairman of selectors (Graveney chose Flintoff as captain and selected GJones and Giles, he has just picked a 36-yr old keeper for the one-day series, what a joke! and bringing back Vaughan for the one-dayers is very risky, surely he would have learned not to bring players back too soon after a long period out injured) and above all a new philosophy and approach. The players need to toughen up, wisen up and sharpen up! We need a coach unlike Fletcher who doesn't come out with silly excuses, is honest with the media and one who believes that you don't get better by playing no cricket!
Complain about this postFlintoff is an overrated cricketer, he has been massively overhyped by the English media (he is a shadow of a great all-rounder, there is nothing special about his batting and bowling averages), Pietersen is England's only world class batsman and Panesar our only really good bowler. England possess no world class fast bowlers. Hoggard got 13 wickets before the 5th Test but 7 of those were in just one innings in Adelaide. Harmison's bowling has been in decline for 2 years now, he has a poor bowling action and is inconsistent.
The likes of GJones, Giles, Trescothick and Harmison (the most mentally weak cricketer I have ever seen) should never play for England again. They should bring in Broad and Tremlett and perservere with the likes of Panesar, Cook and Bell as these players are the future. Also neither Read nor GJones should be selected as keeper; select Davies, Prior or Foster instead.
Finally Ian Botham should consider his career as a media pundit. Before the series started he branded Australia as 'Dad's Army' and said that England's "Fab Four" of Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard and Mahmood would prove too much for Australia's ageing batsmen. Someone buy him a crystal ball!
I crashed my car whilst listening to the cricket - I was so infuriated I pulled out of a junction without concentrating properly. That's what this english team has done to me.
Thankfully no-one was injured although my brown Metro will not be the same again..
Complain about this postSledging, such that it is, is ingrained in the Australian cricket mentaility. I was a fast bowler and was taught how to 'sledge' by my fast-bowler father when I was a junior and all members of the teams I played in employed it constantly. We also expected and got the same treatment back from the opposition. For the most part it is not malicious nor personal and it was always left on the ground at the end of the day's play. It was just part of the weaponry to dislodge batsmen. I'd 'have a go' at members of an opposition team from my cricket district and then have the same people joining in the sledging when we played together at district level.
Its all about aggression, passion and wanting to get the guy in pads down the other end out and win the game. It comes in lots of forms - consider the Merv Hughes occasional long follow through and eyeball-to-eyeball glare ("you're rubbish, and you're my bunny"...). Picking your target is all important though, sledging the wrong guy - Alan Border or Steve Waugh for example - would probably only make them angry and more determined to score a ton!
As a batsman I was hopeless and found the best way to cope with the sledging that was pointed in my direction was to smile broadly back down the wicket at the bowler and wander down the pitch to carefully 'repair' the patch that caused the ball to fly unexpectedly past my outside edge... Once you understand sledging then it can be used against the opposition quite effectively, especially if the bowler in question has a warmish temprament.
Of course people say its "just not cricket" or "ungentlemanly" but then so are bouncers aimed at the body (consider Bodyline!) and overenthusiastic celebration when taking a wicket. Cricket is not a game about being 'nice' any longer and probably never was.
So the England players need to simply let the sledging wash over them, concentrate on their job, wait for the next loose ball and knock it to the boundary. Otherwise you are just falling for the trick that sledging is seeking to achieve. If they're easily upset by a few words (assuming they are not racist, etc) then they probably don't have the mental fortitude to be playing international cricket anyhow.
Complain about this postEngland seemed to feel they had achieved the cricket equivalent of winning the football World Cup when theyt won the Ashes, and could not seem to get motivated for cricket after that.
It was a great achievement, upsetting one of "the greatest teams of all time" one that has just slaughtered England again. Australians say that their current team is one of the best of all time. Wasn't it a great achievement to beat them? The MBE's and the parades were mildly over the top - but I don't know why people want to denigrate 2005 all the time.
England have become more competitive since the dark days of the 1990's and hopefully they will regroup after this bizarre tour.
G.Jones has lost it and Read is not good enough to bat against the top teams. Why were they here? Why didn't England play six batsmen? If Flintoff is not fit enough to risk 3 seamers, then shouldn't he be at home resting? Why throw poor Mahmood straight in? Why not do what the Aussies did and pick an experienced seamer (Stuart Clarke).
Why didn't they plan for this tour from October 2005? Didn't they realise that Flintoff, Vaughan and S.Jones are injury prone?
Complain about this postThis shameful defeat echoes outside of sport. It is representative of a malaise in the British character that began to develop post world war 2 and certainly post 1966. We have become a nation of self-deceivers from the top down ----- in sport, politics, anything you care to mention. We are lied to and we take comfort in self-deceit ----- the surviving myth of superiority that kindles the "spirit" of this Barmy Army of a Britain. So sad that a people who in my childhood once led the world have become the masters of incompetence and seem only to recognise it briefly at times like this of national sporting crisis. Former British traits for understatement, decency and clear-eyed dogged determination that saw us through to surviving the Blitz and defeating Hitler have been undermined by a cult of celebrity hype and acquisitiveness. If we were to take the Aussies on where we excel ----- at binge-drinking, hooliganism, personal debt and teenage pregnancies, for example, we might stand some chance of winning!
Complain about this postIt matters not that Trescothick, Vaughan and Jones were missing, they would have had no effect at all on the main difference between the two sides, namely the batting from number 7 to number 11. Our tail started at 7 throughout the series, far too long, and to a man they were hopeless.
Complain about this postThis shabby and shameful performance undermines and indeed devalues the Honours system for the rest of us, who perceive it as partial recognition for doing something beyond the call of duty. It would be nice to think that those recipients of 'gongs' for winning the Ashes in 2005 will now reflect on their individual efforts in Australia and some at least, find the integrity to return their ill-gotten gains - somehow I doubt this will happen!
Complain about this postIs Roger Twose still playing cricket? He was really good.
PS I'm not feeling well
Complain about this postThe worrying thing is that if you had to name a theoretical "Team of the Series", the only Engalnd player in it would be Pietersen.
Going through the team, Strauss had some awful umpiring decisions but also looked as though the Aussies had worked him out somewhat.
Cook was dismissed caught at the wicket almost every innings this series which points to a technical flaw outside off stump that he really needs to work on.
Bell has improved immeasurably from the frightened rabbit he was in 2005. One of the few positives of the series, but he really does need to learn to make the most of his good starts and turn 50s and 70s into big 100s.
Collingwood, well what do you say? Shane Warne wasn`t a million miles away with his club cricketer jibe. One double hundred on a very flat deck doesn`t convince me the bloke can cut it against the very best. He plays on the walk outside off stump and it has been his downfall on many occasions, and always will be against the moving ball. Not good enough for Test cricket, though his fielding will be missed.
As for Pietersen, I refer you to my opening paragraph.
Flintoff`s captaincy was questionable - too quick to go on the defensive when the Aussies looked like getting on top. You also have to question if his ankle will even allow him to bowl, let alone at the level he bowled at in 2005. Big problems for the balance of the side if he just becomes a specialist batsman.
Geraint Jones has undoubtedly improved his keeping, but his batting has gone 10 steps back at the same time. Doesn`t look like he can score a run!
Chris Read is obviously the better keeper, but was miles out of his depth with the bat at this level. Take a look around the world and you come to the conclusion that even Zimbabwe's Tatenda Taibu is more likely to contribute runs to his side than Chris Read to England's cause.
Mahmood bowls too many four balls, and seems to have no interest in developing his obvious talent with the bat. Perhaps someone would care to teach him the basics of fielding which most 6 year old Kwik cricketers are taught as well?
Hoggard is another plus point - his bowling is now the most dependable in the side.
Harmison seems to be on the road to recovery from his shocker in Brisbane. Could be one of the greats, if only he manages to motivate himself to put the work in................ Capable of tail end runs too.
Anderson looks like a Test bowler again. As for the need for tailend runs, Anderson has always struck me as having some ability with the bat. I really do wonder if anyone works with the tailenders on their batting...?
Panesar, ditto on the batting stakes, he isn`t the out and out rabbit he was made out to be. Not sure about him being a genuine Test No. 8 for the future but occasional 20s and 30s aren`t out of his reach. As for his bowling, he`ll be taking damn good number of Test wickets in his career.
Assuming Vaughan is fit, he has to come in for Collingwood. A new wicketkeeper batsman is needed, maybe time for James Foster to be given his chance, though personally I`d prefer the young Worcestershire keeper Steven Davies.
Mr Agnew, your comments are all spot on, I can`t disagree with a single one of them.
Complain about this postNever a truer word spoken. Possibly the best autopsy on the corpse that is England's tour of Australia 2006/7 that I have read so far.
The incredible thing is that nobody involved in the running of English Cricket genuinely didn't see this coming, rolling off of the plane looking like movie stars and spending more time posing for photo shoots than actually playing some cricket, practicing and preparing. Australia were running up and down hills with bags of rocks tied to their backs and letting the Aussie SAS give them a good workover and what were England doing? Raking in the money in sponsorship and media revenue and getting in some nice rays on Bondi Beach.
Astonishing, it just boggles the mind. We really do have to change. If I were the new England team coach, I'd send them to the Paras and let them deal with this sorry lot, give em' some backbone.
Complain about this postEngland, do yourselves a favour.
Get an Aussie coach and don't get in his way.
Let him make whatever changes he wants and hire whoever he deems necessary to assist.
I believe Aussie coach John Buchanan tried to do some coaching over in England but found that the "old boys club" were impossible to work with and he left in frustration...
Don't hire Darren Lehmann - he doesn't have enough experience to be a national coach...
Oh, you should probably sack Fletcher before doing all this... ;-)
Complain about this postAs a Scotsman on hols in Oz even I was embarassed by the England performance. These guys seemed to out here on their hols... no real commitment or leadership. It was clear Oz were the better team but there was no fight as underdogs and they gave the impression we will win anyway. for a Scotsman it's great to see England totally humiliated without any real fight which must worry the MCC. The team needs real leadership both on the field and behind the scenes.
Complain about this postOh dear! Oh dear!
Complain about this postWhat a lot of moaning.
Who ever actually thought England would be competitive?
Only journalists who were selling media space and those who believe what the journalists say!
Before the series started England were equal odds with Australia to win the series, if they were given a 3 and a 1/2 test start!!
People who put their money down rather than just talk saw a thrashing coming.
England won in 2005 with several strokes of very good fortune, especially Glen McGrath's injury and Australian overconfidence.
This time round the England had the misfortune of no Jones,Vaughn, Trescothic etc.
The gulf between the teams was revealed to its full extent. This has little to do with backbone, courage etc and all to do with ability.
This Australian team is the only one to match Clive Lloyd's Windies team in the 40 years I have been watching cricket and I think on a variety of wickets the Aussies would win a dream series.
McGrath and Warne do not have 1200 wickets between them by accident. Australia dont have a man with a test average of over 40 batting at 7 for fun.
Yes the preparation was poor.
Yes Panasar should have played from the off.
It would not have mattered one jot.
As for all MBE stuff, a bunch of rather quiet chaps (Freddie and Kevin excepted) managed to beat this great Aussie bully of a side in as sporting manner as you could hope to see and people loved them for that, not because they had suddenly become world beaters.
Well Done England! So it appears that in all the sports that "originated" from your British "mud island", you are absolutely no good at any of them! Cricket, Golf, Hockey, Rugby, Soccer - what a shower! Well done the colonialists! Even your Premier League Soccer teams are full of foreigners - oh dear, what next?
Complain about this postHear hear Aggers. There are millions of use who spent our childhoods dreaming of playing cricket for England and there were 11 guys out there who barely looked like they cared. Duncan Fletcher has been a great coach but he cannot be allowed his usual get out clause of saying that the preparation was correct etc. Every armchair pundit in the land knows that Steve Harmison has simply not played enough cricket in the run up to this series and as for playing Giles and Jones the mind boggles.
September 2005 was one of the best days I can remember for English sport (only rivalled by the rugby in 2003 for my money), I really hope this cricket team - which has some extremely talented players in it - is not allowed to sink to similar depths by the morons who are meant to run the game in this country! Change please, and change NOW before it's too late....
Complain about this postPreparation, preparation, preparation... you got it. Practice makes perfect and we didnt practice and therefore we were not prepared.
Did you see Justin Langer on the first day in Brisbane? He was focused, prepared and mentally ready for a fight!
Did you see some of our players messing around in the same morning? Ready for a beach ball competition!
That's where it started to go wrong.
And then the selections...I am not going to go on about Monty and Read, that's well documented.
But why is Mahmood in the side if he is not going to bowl. Surely that means we can play another batter and just bowl Fred, Harmy, Hoggard and Monty.
If he's picked, then bowl him. Otherwise its wasted headcount.
Aggers talks about pandering. Well Nasser Husssain saw the same TV footage as me. Players arriving at the SCG. Warne, the BEST bowler of all time, carrying his own bags. Our lot pampered, bags carried and no doubt baths run for them...
Winning is not just about talent, its also about desire, hunger and attitude!
Lets hope they now realise this is why 'Dad's Army' are still no 1
Complain about this postJust been to the ECB site. I find, that NOT ONE question to the ECB has been posted by fans in January 2007. Can this be true? Are we all happy with our team. Are we all totally content with a 5-0 whitewash?
Complain about this postOr more likely, the IT officer at the ECB has his finger on the delete button!
A team and coaches that together played out of their skins in 2005 and won the ashes with all that meant to them and to a nation that were very happy - from Tony Blair down - to share in the euphoria of their celebrations would inevitably have developed enormous team spirit and cameraderie. You saw that in spades with the Australians last night.
Complain about this postThe emotional desire for those who were involved to keep that team together and re-create 2005 must have been very strong. It required very strong leadership from the coach and selectors to look at what had happened since 2005 and take account of that in their selections, even if it meant breaking up that team.They were not able to do that. So we had Trescothick selected despite the serious intervening problems he had faced, Giles who hadn't played for a year, Jones back, ignoring all that had happened last summer. Heads were ruled by hearts ( for understandable sentimental reasons) and difficult but logical, cold decisions ducked.
Is there not a very interesting parallel with Clive Woodward and the England rugby team. They scaled Everest together by winning the World Cup and such was the sentimental attachment he had to that team that when he was put in charge of the British Lions to go to NZ the bulk of the players he chose were from that World Cup winning team. Like Fletcher and Graveney and the rest his heart took him back to the former glories and team spirit of the World Cup and he could not take the hard decisions to reflect in his squad selection what had happened in rugby in the interim. And, as I recall the result for a Lions team in NZ also built on the sentiment of the past was rather similar to the results in Australia of a cricket team based on the same insubstantial foundation.
For that team and coach 2005 was the summit. A new team. albeit with a core from the 2005 team needs to be rebuilt with its own team spirit and goals.(Even when Monty and Read were introduced to the team was there not a real sense that they and others like Mahmood were being treated as intruders by the rest of the 2005 team?) A coach and selectors who failed to recognise that by taking cold, logical decisions despite the understandable sentimentality of hanging on to the past, failed English cricket, its supporters and the 2006 team.
We need to move on. And it has to start with them moving on. They succeeded wonderfully in 2005. That success and its implications for squad and team selection in 2006 lead to the failure we have just witnessed - just as it did for the Lions and Woodward.
I think the England team needs to wear ladies skirts. It would suit them!!!! Hopeless.
The Australians deserve it!!!!
Good luck Cowards!!!!.
Complain about this postMy husband was so upset by their spineless display that he spilled his hot tea and burned his leg through his pyjamas.
I think if you look at the county averages we were foolish to go in without R.Key, H.Drury and N.Knight
Complain about this postWell said. I also think that they should be forced to take the boat home, it would give them time to consider how they have embarrassed the nation, and lots of time to bond and practice!
Complain about this postToo many excuses makes the game complicated and that's what England did. Australia played simple great cricket, which was to make runs and comfortably did.
Alarm bells rang when England drew the test series with Sri Lanka and whitewashed by them in the one-day series. They were not focused nor prepared.
Mr Flintoff's comments such as "alot to play for, pride, etc etc" really showed there was no conviction in the team. England just narrowly managed to win the ashes in England, not convincingly though.
Excuses are easy to create, accept defeat courageously and valiantly. But don't make excuses!!!
5-0 that's a score which will haunt all England cricketers in their sleep, on field, and in the practice nets.....and the mention of Australia.
It was great to see the cricket won by a great side Australia.
Complain about this postI remember in the coverage of England's 2005 Ashes win, a clearly delighted and rather drunken Englishman telling the Australian camera "We gave your boys a hell of a beating, a hell of a beating." In the circumstances, his hubris was understandable but unfortunately the England cricketers and management seem to have believed him. Yes England won fair but by the slimmest of margins. Two runs was the difference by my account.
The team that lost in 2005 and won just now is probably the most talented Australia has ever fielded, which made the loss even more searing for them. I believe that Ponting and his team would sooner have died than go down in history as the ones who lost the Ashes twice in a row. Therefore my assessment beforehand was that retaining the Ashes away from home without a confident and intelligent captain, their best batsmen and best bowlers would be an impossible challenge. I don't know whether England was in denial or just delusional.
As a pom who has lived in Australia for half his life, all I could really hope for was that the England team made Australia work for it, which did not happen for many of the reasons catalogued in other posts.
My biggest worry for English cricket now is the 2009 comment. Beware, Ricky will still be Australian Captain and the replacements for "Dad's Army" are from the same mould.
Complain about this postI agree with Aggers but only up to a point. There were some quite dreadful umpiring decisions against England at Crucial times - these need to be investigated by the authorities with some urgency, as I think there was a suggestion of bias (possibly linked to the "Hair" fiasco last year)?
Complain about this postI also believe that the single most important factor between the sides was the intensity. The Aussies were really fired up at each session - our team seemed to be happy at sauntering along by just strolling onto the park at the beginning of each innings in the field - where's the passion for the game gone?
Has Fletch lost the ability to instill discipline and passion within this team - if so it's time for him to step aside and bring on someone like Winker in from Lancs - look what he's done for that side in the past couple of years?
Not sure about the WAG situation though - if the players have got young kids then there will be increased pressure from home to "Help". This needs to be investigated by the ECB and perhaps a solution similar to the NASA astonauts brought in whereby a "Creche" for all the Mums at home is created.
I could turn this into a rant about the gutless batting and guileless bowling of young men with too much money and too many MBEs, unimpressive captains and uninspired coaches, daft selection panels making daft selection decisions, money-grubbing CA officials whose greed in seeking to wring every last cent out of possibly the most loyal (certainly the most optimistic) fans of any sport in the world has only been matched by that of local hoteliers and airlines, and spineless ECB officials prepared to forgo any prospect of England hitting the deck running or having a chance to find form by allowing the most important tour in a generation to be shoe-horned between two joke one day tournaments that can only be of interest to the ICC's and CA's bank managers.
And having had the pleasure of spending a large amount of money watching some truly inept displays over the last 25 years, I didn't think England would better the 191-2, 244ao in the fifth test in Perth in '91, or the classic fourth test v a very ordinary NZ at the Oval in '99 (143-3, 162ao). But that was before Melbourne. And Sydney. Can anyone recall playing in or watching any game of cricket where batsmen 5,7,8,9,10,11 managed to accumulate just 6 runs off the bat for the loss of 5 wickets in two hours play?
But I shall desist and offer more cerebral criticism. The old adage that the game is about partnerships has never been better exemplified. Australia have consistently had pairs of players step up to the plate, whereas with the exceptions of Collingwood & Pietersen in Brisbane and Adelaide, and Panesar and Harmison, and Cook & Bell in Perth, England have effectively been performing as a one man band. And frustratingly, unlike four years ago when it really was just one man, the man has generally been different each session. The fact that England have failed to win any session when a game has been in the balance, despite having players who - with just a couple of exceptions - have shown they are able to take wickets or score runs, bothers me. And it should bother the powers that be. I can't put my finger on it but there has been something wrong with morale, with the team ethic. Small things, but nevertheless pointers: why did the players not have Christmas lunch together, or
spend New Year as a team? The captain & coach must front the blame and will doubtless be sacrificed to appease the red-tops, but unless their successors are able to fix whatever the issue is, we are going to have a problem - at least away, on tough tours - for some time to come.
But of course you have to give credit to the Aussies who plotted and executed to a tee. Yes, they have Warne, McGrath & Gilchrist. But their performances have been sporadic, as has that of Ponting after the first two tests. It is interesting how some pretty average players (Symonds, Clark) or those out of form (Hayden, Clark) have stepped up to the plate at just the time they have needed to. To compare and contrast with that of John Buchanan, I look forward to reading how Duncan Fletcher and Team England constructed an 18 month plan two weeks after the end of the last Ashes series with the sole aim of returning with the urn...
成人快手 series will of course be different (except the Lords test), and even at this stage I'd put England a 60% chance of regaining the Ashes in '09. The Australian test side is s going to look thin in a years time, and much as the local media might want to puff the 'genius' of the next generation the fact is that not only are the likes of Cullen, Tait, Jacques, Hodges & Haddin not in the same league as Warne, McGrath, Langer, Hayden & Gilchrist, they are not at the same level as Panesar, Harmison, Vaughan, Cook & Foster.
Complain about this postI just want to thank you Aggers for the magnificent job you've done broadcasting such a pitiful series. You, Geoffrey and the team have always kept us informed, amused (the MBE cat line was a joy), and verbalized articulately where it has all gone so woefully wrong.
Complain about this postI must say the sound bites at the end from Fletcher and Flintoff sounded very weak and charmless. A humbled apology wouldn't have gone amiss. Anyway at least TMS have come out on top! Well done.
I have some good news on the future for the English cricket supporters. The participation numbers of Aussie kids playing cricket are falling, we may be in more of a long term decline than just losing Warnie and McGrath now.
However, the bad news is the numbers of kids taking up football (soccer) are increasing. It now has the biggest participation numbers of any sport in any age group. This has been the trend over the last 5 years or so. I'm predicting we will end up kicking your butt in that sport as well. Hold on .......I seem to recall the last time we played you at Upton Park we did indeed kick your butt 3-1 . Can we please have a regular series against you in football too, that may at least be a more competitive outing for us and with all our team in Europe or the UK we could play it every year.
So I 'm guessing that on balance things would be even worse for the English ego if your football team got beat by us 5-0..........be afraid because it's very much on the cards in the future.
Complain about this postAs a Pom of some 40 years' residence in Australia - and naturalised to boot - let me thank Jonathan Agnew -"Aggers" - for his commentaries of all 5 Tests on ABC Radio here in Australia. His professionalism, as a journalist and cricketer, showed through on every occasion. His "jousting" with Kerry O'Keefe brought tears to the eyes, and is itself worthy of an award ( an MBE?). His final stint, just before the inevitable, with Michael Parkinson, was wondrous to the ears and mind - a big thankyou to all those who made it possible. Today was a wonderful day in the annals of Test Cricket, made the better by Aggers' commentary!
Complain about this postI'm sorry was that the English football side that played the series or the cricket side?Surely can't be the same side that won in 2005?England-win it then rest on your laurels;need to remember that it's like life-it never stops.Well done to the Aussies and we have been priveliged to see a side that we won't see the likes of again for some time now
Complain about this postOne of the most memorable things ever said to me in preperation for a cricket match was "cricket is 90% metal & 10% physical". The team England selected was physically good enough, mentally it was poor. The body language of players fielding & batting said more than any reporter could write. In contrast to the last Ashes series batters shot selection was poor and so was concentration, bowlers were poorly prepared and inconsistant.
Complain about this postI believe Vaughn is the best choice of Captain and was missed greatly. Freddie should be allowed to do what he does best, play cricket. Trescothic and Jones were also key players missing.
I also think Duncan Fletcher, Vaughn and all the processes they have built should not be changed.
As you said at the top of your article, as long as positive lessons are learnt they the team should start re-building. The player are good enough, they have proved it, it's time for some belief & support to come from the public & press that the people who won the Ashes know how to do it, they just have to be shown we believe in them.
Re: Post#34 At 05:54 AM on 05 Jan 2007, SwamyCricketAnanda wrote:
"If attention had been paid to Fletcher's dubious selections and proclivity to running away from blame.. etc. etc.;"
Glad someone else mentioned Fletcher's appalling blame shuffling. He was so happy to take credit when things went well. Now that it's all gone to hell, he should be accepting the blame.
If Fletch had any decency, he'd offer his own head.
But I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any.
I've never seen a coach stab his players in the back to save his own arse the way that Fletcher did on this tour.
Complain about this postTotally agree with you, Aggers. The whole tour has been an absolute shambles. Australia have been focused and hungry from the first ball in Brisbane and yes they are a brilliant team, but they are not invincible, and can be unsettled by determined and positive cricket, as the Ashes 2005 series showed. To lose this series in such a feeble manner and the failure to push Australia all the way is humiliating and utterly demoralising.
Complain about this postGood preparation, strong leadership, team spirit and fitness have been the key areas of success in recent years. These have been sadly absent during this tour- hence the thrashing.
I blame the WAGS (wives and girlfriends), well not them personally but the England Management for allowing them to be out there. Basically, the life of a Test cricketer is about travelling to foreign countries and bonding as a team. Whatever they face while on foreign turf, they face together and overcome problems and torubles together. It seems to me that after each day of each test, the players went back to their families and never truly got a team spirit together as they were always with their own families. It showed in their play as they all played like individuals, and not as a team. It was the same in the World Cup and is the same now. When will the management team learn that their families are a distraction from the task in hand and whilst the players may welcome this, it is not necessarily in the best interests of task in hand and the england team in actually trying to win something. Nick Comer
Complain about this postI am going to miss TMS, Boycott was fantastic, even when we were getting mullered, the commentary and analysis made it compelling to carry on listening. This could not be said about TV as you saw the blood and gore..... too much information.
An inept performance by our management, selectors, and system. What could have been a really fantastic sporting contest and occassion has left most supporters feeling short changed, let down and gutted.
Time for those responsible to go, lets start afresh and try and firstly regain some respect. A good starting point would be some open and honest reflection on what went wrong. To date there has been too much BS papering over the cracks.
As for the 1 day series, at least we will be put out of our misery in less than 8 hours, instead of the usual 3 days.
A Noakes.
Complain about this postI have had so many sleepless nights listening to radio commentry and also praying for some good results. At least it is all over now and I hope to have some decent sleep now. Perhaps my expectation was too high!
Complain about this postHow about making the team that loses inside 5 days pay for the return of entrance fees to the fans that are going to miss out. The MCG and the SCG are huge and the return of money for lost days will cost a fortune. The ECB would have to pay this and if the players were fined an amount they would fight twice as hard as the money appears to be more important than the shirt!
Aggers you are spot on in all you say. Plenty of comments for Flintoff at 7 - I think 8 suits him as he has never produced on a regular basis to bat at 6. I think his average is mid 20's (may be wrong) and if 6 bats and 4 bowlers is good enough for the Aussies then it should be good enough for the also-rans!
Also agree with Boycott on Harmison (and the OBE's!!) If he doesn't want to tour, don't take him. He's generally bowled rubbish for ages in between 1 or 2 good balls. The other bowlers should be made to watch other young and not-so-young bowlers around the world and how they seem to be able to put the ball in the same area more often, create pressure and take wickets. they appear to be able to modify what they do to suit the situation, something that England have not done in this series. Anderson et al have potential, but potential does not win test matches.
The post at 253 makes a lot of good points - not least the domestic set-up. Unlike football the counties eventually put aside their own interests for the sake of the national team when agreeing to central contracts and promotion/relegation. A regional set-up open only to English qualified players may be a start.
However at the end of the day the Aussies were far superior in every aspect of the game for 6 weeks. England were simply not good enough. I said at the ouset that I felt the aussies would win and that I would not be surprised to see a 5-0. However I expected England to lose honourably not to be slaughtered. A 5-live debate yesterday questioned "what is and is not sport"? Someone said sport is a 2-sided contest. Using that definition this was not sport! At least the radio commentary was up to the usual standard. Thanks guys for great shows!
Roll on 2009. By the way why is there 2 1/2 years between these two and only 18 months from the last? Surely we could have held the ashes for another year and avoided the tag of the shortest retention in history!
Complain about this postI think Jonathan has hit the nail on the head; the Australians are more competitive. I bet a day hasn't passed since we won The Ashes in 05 when Ponting hasn't thought about getting them back. Our lads seem to believe in "It matters not who won or lost, but how you play the game". It may be a laudable sentiment, but it has no place in modern, professional cricket.
Complain about this posti enjoyed the 5-0. i'm sure it will be closer next time. sad to see some people go but it's going to be exciting to see new faces.
keep in mind that it's important to try and be the best cricket team, in all forms of the game, and all the time rather than when one series (in this case the 2009 ashes) comes around.
Complain about this postthere's plenty of pundits seemingly disinterested in one day cricket, things like the icc trophy. there has to be enjoyment and desire to win every series, not just the ashes. every series is just as important, but this one was called 'the ashes'. plan for years ahead and you risk overlooking the basics.
what better way to test your own building blocks and mechanisms for success than success in other series against other opponents. and of course, practice matches...
the focus has to be on becoming a better team in general, not just for the next time england plays australia. the next series is the most important, and the ashes will arrive in due course.
Looking back at the last series that Australia lost at home - against the West Indies in '92-'93, the WIs had 8 tour matches!
Complain about this postEngland narrowly beat a tired and out of sorts Australian side in 2005. They have been thrashed by a side on top of their game in 2006/07. Why was this England side not at their best for this tour?
Complain about this postThey have played poorly, spoken complacently about their performance and been sadly lacking in real leadership. They seem unwilling to accept they are playing badly and need to do take action to pull themselves back together. Do they really want to win? It is hard to imagine so after this mauling.
Sadly too their batting and bowling techniques are poor, their coaches are clearly not doing the job they are paid to do.
Best move would be to pull out of the World Cup and spend the time going back to the drawing board, rather than subjecting an alrady demoralised side to more humiliation.
As usual, Aggers' analysis is incisive and spot on.
If I had to pick one moment where the Series was lost I think it was Adelaide. The Brisbane defeat was a bad start - but we were defeated heavily at Lord's last year and were able to come back.
Pundits, commentators and players all thought Adelaide was coasting to a draw so we eased off. The Australians, however, never ease off. They spotted that we were coasting so they stepped up the pace and it took us too long to respond. Turning an expected draw into a victory must have been a huge boost to their morale - and the defeat must have been a big dent in ours.
This meant that we went into the third test 2-0 down instead of 1-0 and with our morale in tatters. The Aussies knew that they only had to win one match from the remaining 3 to reclaim the Ashes. I felt from then on that the end was certain.
Complain about this postThis summer, the English have brought great entertainment and colour to cricket grounds all around Australia. We have witnessed considered leadership, admirable comradery, well executed skills plus determination and fortitude in the face of adversity, The Barmy Army have been great. It is just a shame the cricket team they support have not displayed the same qualities
Complain about this postI would not select Steve Harmison again. He needs to play one day & tests to maintain his rhythm & fitness. Also, the whole ECB structure needs changing
Complain about this postEmbarassing, shambolic, pathetic......and some stronger words come to mind.
I'm dreading the one day series (and I'm sure the players are too)
The saddest thing for me is that the euphoria, pride and enthusiasm which the 2005 series created in this country has now completely disappeared and that is disastrous for the game of cricket.
Complain about this postFor a nation of supposed sports fanatics we really do not invest in sport in the education system unlike the Australians. I have two boys at primary school and they have no organised sports in their timetable. If they did not go to a local club they would not know one end of a cricket bat from the other. We have a government that is banning advertising of junk food to try and reduce childhood obesity, but fails consistently to live up to its promises to encourage sport in school. Not only does sport increase health it can help develop self esteem and team play, as well as giving great enjoyment. Our kids need opportunities to experience many different sports from an early age, and then be able to choose which they would like to pursue. Only then will we start too live up to the hype.
Complain about this postFinally, if we think 2006 was bad(Ashes, football World Cup and the state of the England rugby team) just wait to the disappointment of the 2012 Olympics.
I see the same old deluded reasons for England's failure are still being trotted out: the cricketers think they're pop stars, the MBEs have gone to their head, WAGs have weakened their resolve, too little preparation, blah blah. Is it really so difficult to admit that the contemporary Australian side is simply more talented, more experienced and - crucially - enjoys far greater strength in depth than England?
Prior to this series, England's two heaviest trouncings Down Under were the 5-0 in 1920/1 and the 4-0 in 1958/9. Both those sides contained players of considerably more ability than the present outfit (the 58/9 squad had an attack of Trueman, Statham, Tyson, Lock, Laker, Loader and Bailey, for crying out loud) and many of the players had previously toured, and won in Australia. Both parties were led by experienced, successful skippers. Wives and girlfriends were not permitted and none of the players had received honours or victory parades. Both sides enjoyed ample warm-up matches before the Test series and selection was the preserve of one man, should he so desire. In other words, according to many of the views expressed here, both those sides were perfectly prepared to give the Aussies a tough contest, yet both failed abjectly.
In the Kremlin-style rewrite of the 2005 Ashes, it's regularly being claimed that England "had to be at their absolute best to beat Australia". That's codswallop, when one recognises that England's number 4 batsman contributed next to nothing, her number 3 and number 7 were below par with the bat, her spinner took one wicket per innings at 57 and her leading strike bowler was fairly innocuous post-Lord's. What mattered in 2005 was that players in other key roles were at their best. For all the talk of Test cricket changing, the formula for winning matches has remained the same down the years: a reliable opening partnership, strong contributions from one or two middle-order bats and a bowling attack that can take 20 wickets. In 2005, the players filling these roles came off big-time and stayed injury-free; in 2006/7, two of them, plus the skipper, didn't even make the Ashes and arguably only Pietersen replicated his form and influence. And the honest truth is that, in times of injury and loss of form, England do not possess the reserve strength to compete with a side as talented and battle-hardened as Australia. In 1953/4, having been pummelled at Brisbane, England had sufficient strength to be able to drop Alec Bedser, the finest seam bowler of his generation. In 2006/7, Harmison has a stinker at Brisbane, is very average at Adelaide yet cannot be dropped because there's nobody else to come in.
As a final word, whilst the media will doubtless revel in the recriminations, they simply can't have it both ways. All winter, they've been telling us that Warne is the greatest spinner of all time, Gilchrist the world's best ever keeper-batsman and Ponting the finest Australian batsman since Bradman. McGrath, they say, is one of the all-time great seamers, whilst the excellent record of the Hayden-Langer union is frequently raised. Well, if all this really is the case, then a hammering can hardly be that much of a surprise, can it? I tend to agree with KP's view that, cutting away all the open-top bus/MBE rubbish, England's 2005 triumph hasn't been given the cricketing praise that it deserved. Five years ago, many of these Australian players formed the side that, according to many, was better than Bradman's Invincibles and Lloyd's West Indians. Surely, then, just to live with them is a decent effort, let alone beat them? And, whilst a 5-0 drubbing is highly disappointing, when considered in the context of absent players and the standard of opponent, it's a long way from England's worst performance Down Under. Much better England teams have taken a pounding in Australia down the years but the urn has been regained in due course. Let's salute a fearsomely good opponent and start building for 2009.
Complain about this postDavid L (post 323) - I humbly submit that you're talking arrant nonsense. One can debate about whether this Aussie team is better than the great Windies mid 80s team, but "wipe the floor"?? Give me a break. And please tell me which individual here didn't "contribute" - Greenidge, Haynes, Fredericks, Richards, Lloyd, Logie, Gomes, Kallicharran, Dujon, Murray, Roberts, Holding, Ambrose, Walsh, Garner, Marshall....
Yeah right, bunch of talented individuals who got lucky...
Complain about this postPay the players only for performance not just for turning up. Increase their overall potential fee and pay 33% as a fixed base, the rest on what they contribute (easy to do). It would get rid of the wannabies and luvvlies and focus on the professional game.
England suffers in all its major sports from the malaise of picking from what is available, rather than focusing on rewarding what is required to be competitive.
At least half the current team would not have left UK if those were the rules, while another 20 great players would have been lining up for a shot.
Time to get professional, not just say the words. R
Complain about this postDid you all hear Pietersen's interview on Sky with Athers. I hope he said all that in the dressing room. There is your future England captain - tells it like it is. The only player to come out of this winter with any real credit.
Complain about this postI dont understand how, in a country of 60 million, we cant find 10 men who are excellent at both batting AND bowling, + a wicket keeper. Its shocking frankly.
Complain about this postI would just like to congratulate Jonathan on his words. I wholly agree.
It would be a crime of the highest degree if England were not to take this defeat, as much as it hurts and assess what went wrong, also I might add, anything that went right and use this to make sure we never turn up for another tour and give such a poor showing of ourselves.
I think there are also certain players who need to look at areas such as attitude and they're ability to apply themselves when they are under pressure, this is where 'TEST' matches are won and lost.
I am a suporter of central contracts and I think they maybe one of the reasons why the england team has seen an upturn in fortune under the Fletcher regime, however I do believethe England set up are not managing these contracted players properly. Bowlers need to bowl to build up form, rhythm and most importantly match sharpness so please stop wrapping these players up in cotton wool.
Complain about this postIt is interesting to look at the overall averages of the two squads over the series. I think they show the greatest difference between the two lies in their bowling.
England's overall combined batting average was 20.93, Australia's 46.36. England's bowlers took 57 Australian wickets, Australia's took 92 England wickets. Australia quite simply out-bowled our batsmen and out-batted our bowlers, on the same tracks over 5 tests. In 2005 we had a bowling attack good enough to allow us to compete. Not so this time.
The margin between the two teams has also been magnified by the fact that they both play result style test cricket, trying to score at 4 an over. A bowling attack that is tight will force the batters to take more chances in order to score at the desired rate. If you have to take more risks, you get out more often. If England are to try and score at 4 an over they must have a bowling attack that makes it as equally difficult for their opposition to score at that rate. We gave the Aussies too many loose balls, allowing them to score comfortably quickly without taking undue risks.
Australia are a better balanced and experienced team that knows how to strangle their opponents and take advantage of the opportunities offered to them. Very impressive stuff.
Complain about this postRe Post #38 At 05:58 AM on 05 Jan 2007, Richard Spence wrote:
"County cricket is rotten and has been for most of my life time (I am 40). It is a retirement home for overseas stars and ageing country pros. It clearly does not produce any where near the quality of Sheffield Shield.
Everything else is mere detail."
Richard Spence, you are exactly right and you have put it so succintly. Nice comments.
Some people may say "well, we beat them in 2005" but the fact is that the Aussies didn't play well (apart from Warne)
Now that the problem is identified, what is the solution?
The thing is that it's difficult to actually get into a State (Sheffield Shield) team. There's a whole layer of grades of club cricket that you have to excell in to be selected for a shield side.
A big thing is that at the end of the day, everyone recognises that the Shield cricket is a vehicle to support the national team. People are really happy to see someone from their state side get promoted to the national side.
(i.e. they're not disappointed to lose a great player, they're happy that they have a chance to play for Aus)
Is this similar to the county setup?
Complain about this post(I don't know as I'm an Aussie)
It's quite an achievement to make the state team, is this also the case to be selected for a county side ?
I can't dispute anything Jonathon says. But I do think that the element of confidence is so important. Remember how England were stuffed at Lords in 2005? Then, thanks to McGrath stepping on a cricket ball and Ponting deciding to field, England scored over 400 on the first day at Edgbaston, confidence suddenly soared, and with it came Ashes victory. What if Ponting had decided to bat? We could have been thrashed in that game, and with it perhaps been whitewashed in that series.
Complain about this postThis current England side were never given the slightest opportunity to build confidence, for all sorts of reasons - not least, a formidable Australian side which didn't give an inch.
There is a lot of comment here about how the celebrations were over-the-top when we won the Ashes in 2005. Some Aussies seem to forgetting their history: when I was in Australia in 1989 and the Aussies won the Ashes they received a ticker-tape parade upon their return to Sydney and, smongst other things, the Sydney Morning Herald was encouraging people to send a 'Hero-agram' to Alan Border and his team.
Only the most one-eyed Aussie can seriously think that England didn't deserve their victory in 2005. We were the better team, hands-down, in all the tests apart from Lord's. If anything, the final 2-1 scoreline was extremely flattering to the Aussies.
Complain about this postBasically, England snuck a win in a series in which EVERYTHING went against the aussies. This time a few things of a similar nature went against England, although the umpiring this time was more equal (remember how many times Damien Martyn was given out for lbw with huge inside edges last series?) and England got steamrollered 5-0. This does not imply that England had injury problems, bad selection, it simply means that Australia are a far far far far superior team to England. In my opinion 2005 was an absolute travesty and finally justice has been done to show how superior Australia really are.
Complain about this postSo, to sum up, 2005:England playing the best they ever will combined with huge misfortune for australia and some poor form, 2006-07: Australia show true class and trample England, and no excuses about England's poor form, England were just not allowed to play because Australia are one of the most awesome cricketing sides to grace the planet.
wat a sorry state affairs we have just witnessed,not just beaten,but humiliated,anyone with any foresight would have known the ashes were merlely borrowed,in fact to be honest only won through default!. and so Auz proved it! it is my view as an Englishman in the UK,we need a complet overhall of our team. This team should comprise of indiginous English and lest get rid of these Nationlised Flops! perhaps then i will return to supporting the game I played and Loved and admired. All the great teams of the past! irrespective of Race. But we need a team of English Born and bred players,not those who emigrate here just because they like to see rainfall once in a while. Sack the lot of them!!!
Complain about this postDuring the one-day series which preceeded the 2005 ashes, I remember many commentators (though I'm not sure Jonathan was one of them) complaining about the one-dayers being a 'waste of time' and 'why can't we have these after the tests?'. Now, in 2006/07 they're complaining about the team being under-prepared. Surely, a one-day series prior to the tests would have been good preparation? I certainly seemed to work in 2005 - the Aussies lookd undercooked at the start of the one-dayers but by the time the tests started they were raring to go and it produced a great series.
Let's not forget that sport is entertainment - there is no other reason for it to exist - and that therefore teams, their management, and the governing body of the sport have a duty to ensure that it is played competitively. I don't know who is to blame for England being so woefully under-prepared for this tour but whoever it is they owe a refund to all those who paid money to watch the games, and an apology to the entire cricketing world.
Complain about this postITS NOT LIKE ENGLAND SMASHED AUSTRALIA IN 2005 THEY NEARLY LOST THAT TOO. SUCH OVER CONFIDENCE, ARROGANCE AND RELAXATION HAS COST ENGLAND THEIR BIGGEST HUMILATION IN CRICKET HISTORY - CHODUS
Complain about this postBad squad selection, bad team selection, inadequate preparation, a foreign coach and captain unable to motivate, bad match strategy and tactics, tachnical weaknesses, wives and girlfriends on tour.......for the 2006/07 Ashes read the 2006 football World Cup !!
Sir Clive Woodward spoke of getting a hundred things one per cent better to win the rugby world cup. Sadly for each of England's three main sports we have managed to completely reverse the process.
Australia's response to loosing the Ashes has been magnificent, congratulations to Ricky Ponting and his wonderful team. Let's just hope England respond in something like the same manner.....and rugby and football follow suite.
Complain about this postThe Australians were not as good as the English side seems to think they were. The English problem was a pathetic performance by the batsmen. Players showed that ocasionally they could bat but it was far too inconsistent to be able to win at this level. Our Bowlers were OK but did lack a bit of sparkle.
Complain about this postThe attitude to the game was evident when watching the fielding - Australia chased everything, England a little trot towards the ball then capitulation as it slowly hit the boundary.
World Cup - I don't think so !!!!!!!!
Mr Agnew you are 100% correct. The cricketers are becoming like the English Football team - a bunch of overpaid prima donnas who believe all the celebrity claptrap/hype. Trouble is once discipline is lost it's almost impossible to get it back. The appointment of Flintoff as captain was bound to fail - where is his experience in this role? Further, his own form seemed to suffer (just as happened to Botham when he was made captain). Players should be selected on their ability not because they are part of some clique or another.
Complain about this postSpot on this time, Jonathan.
There MUST be a very full examination of ALL aspects of this series. There are MASSIVE lessons to be learned. 10 out of 11 Australian players were superior. Only Pietersen would make their team. BUT, the way this team performed reflected fundamental weaknesses.
Some solutions:
1. Get Simon Hughes in as video analyst.
2. Allow the players to gain form at the county level- bowling rhythm, batting timing in the domestic season. Proper matches on tour before tests start.
3. Develop the bowling skills of Bell, Pietersen and Collingwood (who I thought was meant to be an all-rounder)
4. Select only FIT players (as a basic principle)
5. Develop a squad of at least 18 players who can be picked on CURRENT FORM & FITNESS
(Australia's 2nd Xl would have given England a stern test series!!)
6. Select Strauss as captain and allow Flintoff to get fit and concentrate on his key skills.
(How many successful test captains have been bowlers in proportion to batsmen?)
If you examine the suggestions from the 100's of e-mails you get, I reckon you will get an overwhelming concensus of the sort of suggestions I have made. LIST them in order of frequency and SEND THEM to the England Management!
Complain about this postLet's LEARN from this series!!!
Yes, it was a thrashing but there were some positives. Hoggard never gives up, Panesar shows promise, Collingwood can be very difficult to dislodge once set, Pieterson is a gifted player and Cook will captain England one day. A fit Flintoff is probably the world's best all rounder.
These are the things England must build on. Accentuate them and eliminate all this negative talk. That is how Aussies operate.
But, Aussies are human believe it or not, and put them under pressure, a lot of pressure, and they will crack sooner or later, same as England.
Do this and eventually the worm will turn and England will celebrate while Australia will wring its hands.
Well, may be.....
Complain about this postI am a proud Englishman who has resided in Sydney for over 10 years. I have suffered humiliating defeats in many sports over the years but this is by the far the most spineless and toothless performance I have witnessed by any England team since I settled in Oz in 1996.
Preparation, out of form players, dressing room disharmony, heads down, going through the motions etc etc. PATHETIC!!!!
I would like to give my opinion of each player:
STRAUSS - with the exception of Harmison, the most disappointing performance of all. Admittedly, a couple of dodgy decisions during the series but his feet are not moving and he has played many a rash shot to be dismissed.
COOK - A lucky century doesn't hide the glaring deficiences he has outside off-stump. He would do well to watch hours and hours of video featuring Langer and Hayden who know when to leave and when to play at a ball. Like Strauss he needs to learn how to hook and pull or otherwise do a Steve Waugh and put it away.
BELL - One of the positives of the series with several dogged innings. He has plenty of shots but gets out too often when he is set. A good player on the sub-continent and English pitches but needs to learn how to play on harder surfaces.
COLLINGWOOD - A double century on a pudding at Adelaide was a gritty knock but all too often he is too stuborn and reclusive. If he wants to be the new Boycott he has to play with a straighter bat and be prepared to work the ball for singles and twos rather than blocking back to the bowler.
KP - Our best and most consistent batsman of the series. Due to the lack of form of the rest of the top six he has had to play an unnatural game in some innings which he has coped with admirably. Clark was the only bowler to give him consistent difficulty and those who say his shot in the 2nd innings of the Adelaide test was the turning point of the series obviously did not see the errors of our other batsman.
FREDDY - Was always going to be a difficult series for the big man. His bowling was consistent if unspectacular but frequently caused the Aussies problems. His batting was very ordinary until the final test and the selctors should now realise that he is a no.7. His captaincy was inventive and he showed to one-and-all that he can handle the pressures in the field although he was too negative in Melbourne and Sydney. However, it looks as though he doesn't have the motivational determination of Vaughan and that has obviously affected the dressing room.
READ - A better keeper and batsman than Jones but other options have to be urgently looked into. Alec Stewart would still command a place at the moment and he is 43 years old.
MAHMOOD - The pace is there and he has upset every one of the Aussie batsmen but he bowls far too many four balls and it appears that he doesn't have a game plan for each batsman. Woefully under used once picked which couldn't have helped his confidence. Stick with him.
HARMISON - Woeful. Preparation poor and the first ball at Brisbane set the tone for the whole series. Bowled one good spell the whole series but otherwise bowled far too short and wide. In honesty he has had one decent spell in three years when the Windies were at their lowest. He has retired from one-day cricket and personally I would put him out to pasture in regards to Test cricket also. His heart isn't there, he hates travelling and we can't just pick him for home series. Sorry Steve but bye bye.
ANDERSON - Unplayable at times and showed the concentration to bowl accurately for several overs but one bad over seemed to sap his confidence. Needs to mould himself into a Mike Hendrick or a Chris Old. Seems to have picked up his pace also.
MONTY - Felt unwanted until the series was virtually gone. The experience will have done him a lot of good. Troubled all the batsman and unlucky not to get a few more wickets. Never seemed to bother him if getting smashed about. Needs some help and consistency with his field placing. Looks to have the best technique of the lower order batsman.
HOGGARD - This guy gives it his all. A magnificent effort in Adelaide. Aussie pitches do not necessarily help his style of bowling but he had Langer and Hayden in all kinds of trouble in every game he played. Never gave in and always wanted to bowl...unlike Harmison. Don't think he should be the night-watchman anymore; he is a blocker with no foot movement who is lucky to keep most balls out. However, 10 out of 10 for effort.
JONES - This must be the end for Gerraint. Was ordinary at best in 2005 and his batting has been laughable this time around. Doesn't seem to be a natural behind the stumps and in front he is clueless. Retire off to the Welsh countryside.
GILES - Did nothing of note for the two games he played. Injured for 12 months and picked just doesn't make sense. OK he can bat better than the rest of the tail but that is hardly a reason to jump up and down at and pick him. Like Jones this should be the end for the King of Spain. Obviously, we all wish him well from a family perspective.
TRESCOTHICK - Would have made minimal difference.
Lick your wounds England and well done Oz. Warne & McGrath.....I've never liked either of you but my God you're both tremendous cricketers and the game will be worse off without you.
Let's get the inquiry underway and plan for 2009.
Complain about this postOkay, I've got another wild theory on how you can improve your cricket team from the grassroots up.
Ban soccer (that's football to you folks)
Complain about this postgood luck ;-)
in 2005 England played at 150% and Australia 50% - that is why we squeaked home, this time we were 50% and they were 150% - lambs to the slaughter!
Complain about this postAustralia must be gutted to win the Ashes against a walkover team. True history is made by the toughest competition. That did not happen although it will go down in the record books.
Complain about this posti absolutley agree with Jonathan, and would like to add that some of these players not to mention any names ( Harmison) give the appearance of laziness, and seem without any pride in their country which is in stark contrast to the Australians
Complain about this postEveryone laughed at me when I said in 2005 that England were not a good test team - just a good first innings team. Well at the moment they are niether.
Complain about this postIt should be called the 'Hutton' Test Series.
Complain about this postSame bucket of whitewash as for the Kelly Enquiry.
Hope the triumphant boys give back the MBE's on their return.
It seems that the England Cricket Team have redefined the meaning of MBE...
More Bloody Embarrassment.
Complain about this postThree Lions? Where's the 'pride' boys?
I asked in my previous blog contribution if England would learn the lessons from this disastrous tour and now I note Jonathan is saying much the same thing. I agree with him about families on tour. It can become all too comfortable and holiday-like for the players when, yes, there is JOB (a well paid job) to do. I realise that players do much touring today. That is not the best for family life and therefore the suggestion they come out later on tour seems a reasonable compromise.
There is much more England must learn. One lesson they signally failed to understand is that runs equal time. Every run scored absorbs about a minute in time and is one more run the opposition must get. Thus, to get bogged down as the English team did in Adelaide (30 runs in two hours) when more aggressive batting could have won the test (or saved it) is to commit the cricketing equivalent of suicide. Another lesson to be learned from the Aussies is to take every run on offer - to turn some ones into twos, some twos into threes and so on. It adds up by the end of a 5 day match. Again, when embarking on a tour as demanding as it is here the lead-up to the test matches must be much longer and with genuine opposition. In the olden days a full schedule of matches against the various states was played by the MCC. By the time they reached Brisbane they were as ready as they could be. The preparations to meet Australia in Brisbane on this tour were ludcrously inadequate and partly a cause of the wrong selections made.
The English players did not exhibit the combative grittiness of players successful here in the past - Ray Illingworth, John Snow, Ian Botham, et alia. Hopefully they will learn from this to match their self-hype with actual deeds and see every series played between now and the next Ashes series in 2009 as an important building block for that next encounter.
Complain about this postHave a look at Dan's comments posted at 11.05 which I must complain about. He forgot one or two full stops :)
Seriously, what can I say to add to Dan the Man's comments? Apart from David Graveney call him in for a chat.
Complain about this postAggers
I agree with everything you say. lets not lose sight of the fact that in 2005 we didn't outplay the Aussies....we nicked the Ashes and then went on a wild celebtation with MBEs all round and open top busses through London.
We were totally naive if we though we would retain the Ashes with the lack of serious preparation for this tour. Its as if we never thought we could win. The Aussies wanted the Ashes back and in style.
Only Pietersen would get a place in the Aussie team and even he would have to focus more to keep a place.
Complain about this postWhat a difference from 2005 and our superb Ashes victory when the whole of the country went bonkers with celebrations. Now in 2006/7 we are compelely thrashed and humilated in a 5-0 defeat, we no certain key players were missing from the party selected, however surely we should have performed better, maybe we should be better prepared pre and during the tour?
Complain about this postAll the talk of getting our bowlers coached to bat is all fine, but our top order batsmen have set the world alight with their performances, Strauss has got in and got out, Cook has flattered, Bell has played well but not gone on to big scores, Collingwood despite his wonderful double century in vain has also only flattered and is he a test number 4 or 5? what number he bat in another test team. Peiterson has provided a somewhat shining light and has battled away, many times not in his usual thrilling nature, Flintoff, I believe has had to much on his mantle as, Captain, Opening bowler, Batsmen etc, and is he 100% fit. As for the bowlers after a bad start Harrmison is at least going in the right direction of improvement although he just had too, Hoggard as usual has worned his shirt with pride and tried hard, Anderson has shown some steady improvement should he have played a bigger role rather Mahmood who has just not performed at this level. Panasear well where has he been another who wears his shirt with pride. As for the Wicket Keepers neither Jones or Read have performed with the bat, despite both keeping well in particular Reed in the last two tests.
In conclusion, I believe changes will be required to put us back on the international test field, with several personnel of his tour falling by the wayside. Perhaps the selection policy needs amending and to who make the final selections be discussed? Watching this mornings final act was just simply humilating, with way we just surcomed not with standing Australia been a better and all round superb outfit, I think we have somewhat made them look better with our inabilities to perform and take our chances when we had them on the backfoot, surely to finish with a draw at least is better than a loss. We need some character building and believe to ensure this terrible effort down under is not repeated. Here's looking forward to the West Indies and India in the summer of 2007 and much improved performances.
Loyal England supporter.
You have to believe that the English players tried they're best, or at least believed they tried their best.
You also have to say, that generally we do have some world class players. Granted not in the same league as some of the Aussies, but when all IS said and done, some of these Aussies are arguably some of the best who's ever played the game.
I disagree with those who believe that 2005 was down to luck or just a fluke.
So, if you accept this, in a way, it makes this Ashes defeat even more unbearable. If you think you have an average team who get whacked you can be disappointed, but when you think you're the 2nd best team in the world on your day.... and you get whacked, you SERIOUSLY should look at what the HELL went so utterly and ludicrously wrong.
THE ECB SHOULD NOT DODGE JUST HOW BADLY THIS TOUR WENT!
Complain about this postRe: Post 361# At 11:00 AM on 05 Jan 2007, rob moston wrote:
"As for Australia, they'll struggle to replace both Warne and McGrath, maybe even Langer too. Forget all the talk about them having several young guns in reserve - they don't. The old sheffield shield competition is not that strong."
Yes, Warne is a "one-off" and will not be replaced. Stuart Clark is already doing a fine McGrath impersonation though, and I reckon there are at least two better bowlers than him in the state sides. The only problem with the batting will be deciding which of about six or seven to choose...
The Sheffield Shield competition is weak?
You go on believing that, and we'll see you in 2009.
:-D
Complain about this postUtterly disgraceful peformance by England.
We need a Government funded inquiry into the desperate state of English cricket. Just how have we managed to slump so low in only 18 months?
Complain about this postWhat a load of rubbish England were. Give back the medals and reaward them to people who deserve them. Not too a bunch of so called cricketers who got them for winning a series against Australia. Will Tony Blair be inviting these losers to No 10 for tea this time??? I think not.........
Complain about this postEngland were pathetic and embarrassing. They were not fit to wear the dark blue cap. They treated the tour as a holiday and believed their own publicity. Too many players were guaranteed starts and didn't have the motivation of having to play for their places. Flintoff is not a natural authority figure and discipline was clearly not what it should have been. England looked unfit, poorly motivated and second best throughout. I would drop them all apart from Pieteresen, Flintoff and Panesar (maybe Collingwood) and bring in a new, young side that actually wants to play cricket for England, not just receive plaudits and empty praise for unfinished jobs left half-done.
Complain about this postHow often did you see an Australian batsman in danger of getting hurt by the bowling this series?
Now think about how often you saw that in the previous Ashes series.
If anything, the English bowlers should be getting MORE bounce in Aus than in England. What happened to all that aggressive bowling?
Complain about this postjust found it interesting...
Yes absolutely agree. A better example of a more shoddily organised, prepared and executed cricket tour/series, you couldnt hope to see.
If I hear anymore from these well paid so called professional sportsmen on how well prepared they were and how they tried their hardest, I'll throw up. If the Aussies harboured any illusions that they may face an uphill struggle to win back the Ashes these thoughts were quickly dispelled as soon as Harmisson apologised to ponting and sent that first ball into 2nd slip. From that moment the ashes were lost. Even then i thought it might be 2-1 or at worst 3-1. After Adelaide you just knew the series had 5-0 written large all over it.
if I were an English cricketer returning from Oz Id take up a disguise and new id.
Complain about this postI hate to think too far back, one does as one gets older. Let's remember that the last whitewash was after a World War and that was a similar excuse in 1946/7 and in 1948. No such excuse can exist now.
I am far from convinced that central contracts are a perfect answer and it is self-evident that our players do not play enough, not that they play too much. We could have still sent a perfectly plausible team to the I.C.C. trophy and it did not have to be tha Ashes test team totally or even partially. I do not accept that our cricket is full of journeymen.
As a Surrey member and supporter I have had more pleasure in 2006 in watching my team than in watching England, viz the one day games at Leeds and Chester-lre-Street.
I think it is essential that our coach and the management ensure that the last four or five in the batting order have some batting capability and if not ensure that they do or drop them.
We have to look hard to build the right team and there is no harm in changing through the selection process the team if players fail ( and this lot have).
There is not one player now I would pick in my best ever England team I have seen since 1946.
Raymond Hart
Complain about this postI've been for a long walk on the beach this morning with my two dogs (Judy & Sally) to try and bring some sense to this madness. And, you know what, I now have a bad headache and am going to lie down.
Bring on the Windies and India - I've got tickets to all the test matches so expect to see my current pain expunged (assuming I'm well by then!)
Complain about this postHow did a team that has shown such fighting spirit, not only in the 2005 Ashes series but for the previous three years slump to a shadow of it's former self.
Complain about this postThis series has been a huge embarrassment and if they think that they have tried their best they will learn nothing from it.
Although I agree with many of the comments made, I do think that some concessions have to be made to the players' family lives. The players play more tests than ever before and you only have to look at the effect this has had on players such as Trescothick and Thorpe to realise that there must be a balance. Stop them drinking before you stop them seeing their children on Christmas day.
Complain about this postits time to look at the unthinkable (for ecb anyway) and pick totally on form and imo that even means dropping flintoff. the sad thing is we are short of replacements and that is the real issue wuth english cricket!
Complain about this postAs an England fan I can say that I'm not overly hopeful for the future.
People can say the team was under cooked / ill prepared for this tour but if I'm being honest I can't remember any time in the 5 tests where we won two sessions on the bounce.
Perhaps this level of unpreparedness could be used to explain the extent of the defeat in Brisbane but frankly the gap was obvious (and indeed became more aparent) as the series progressed.
No amount of prep could have closed the gap in quality. Needed Simon Jones, Vauhan, Trescothick, a fully fit Freddie and an inform Harmison to even have a chance of making an impact.
Biq question marks over the futures of many of the players - long hard looks in the mirror.....
Complain about this postThose complaining about our tail are completely missing the point. We were outbatted and outbowled, from 1 through to 11.
Shane Warne averaged more than everyone bar KP. Is that because he's a better batsman than Strauss? No, it's because we bowled poorly and they bowled well.
You pick your best 4 bowlers, irrespective of batting form. The whole point is that they save you runs by bowling teams out. A stronger tail *might* have got us another 100 runs a Test. Since we lost by 277 runs, 6 wickets, 206 runs, an innings, and 10 wickets, the result would have been unchanged.
We could have picked Cork, Croft, Ealham and Dalrymple as our bowlers. The can all bat. We have still lost though. The only differences would have been that the games lasted a bit longer, and Warne would never have got to bat because Australia would have scored 700-5(dec) each time they batted.
Complain about this postTo Realist 305
"Before the aussies get too carried away, they should reflect that what we have seen this series is an ageing, not great, side comfortably beat a badly prepared and absolutely awful England team. No more, no less. Warne and McGrath are no fools and have timed their retirement wisely."
Yes my friend. We have been getting something regularly along those lines for some years. Since 1989 in fact - then it was Terry Alderman the bogeyman. But thanks for the reminder! You should be a consultant.
Complain about this postThe worst thing at the end of all this is that the same guys who are conducting the inquiry into what went wrong are the same ones who after the 2002/3 series said that they would never pick unfit bowlers again. Yet despite their protestations that it was not the same that is exactly what they did this time.
They have shown they do not have the capacity to learn from their mistakes even if they may be aware of them so what good is holding an inquiry going to make.
You don't need a metting of the big heads to sum up what went wrong with this tour into five simple words.
Wrong captain and wrong bowlers.
Complain about this postWhere is the pride at playing for your country and doing your absolute best? With the central contracts and Club England mentality its all too easy for highly paid players to become complacent e.g. Steve Harmison.
That coupled with lack of proper cricket rather than just net practice makes the whole team soft. Would love to know how may competitive overs the England bowlers have bowled since 2005. How do young English bowlers learn without playing in matghes every week? About time there was a complete shake up starting with David Graveney and Duncan Fletcher.
Complain about this postI was so incensed by their pathetic display in this test that I absent-mindedly shut my hand in a car door - luckily i was ok because it was a prosthetic hand!!
Complain about this postI agree, Jonathan. The whole tour was hopelessly flawed from the start. What on Earth were the selectors thinking about when they picked Giles. He hadn't played for a year! They also knew that Tresco had problems, so why did they take him? Anderson has not been a bowling force for some time, but they took him. Flintoff was clearly not fit, but they still took him and made him captain, unceremoniously dumping Strauss.
Careless strokes, hooks and reverse sweeps, still plague the batsmen. The Aussies publicly announced that they would be tempting the batsmen to hook and they still fell for it.
No backbone, no determination, no fight. A total disaster. Fletcher and Graveney should resign, forthwith.
Complain about this postI have to disagree with all those saying that this whitewash proves that England were lucky to win in 2005. To me, it proves completely the opposite - that there is absolutely nowhere to hide in a five test series against Australia, and that if you are not constantly at the top of your game, you will lose. For England to win 2-1 in 2005 now seems a massive, massive achievement. Not even the fact that they won - they didn't LOSE four of the matches in that series. In the context of this Ashes, that seems unbelievable!
Complain about this postI agree with J Agnew completely.
England seemed to have such a good opportunity to hold onto the ashes this time. I think they became complacent from the management down.
England do have some world class players. But Australia have several who have been at the top for far longer than. In Warne they also have the best spin bowler ever.
England won the ashes in 2005 through team work and intelligence plus some huge performances. All those three elements seemed to be missing this time out. The England team needs to do some soul searching before they can achieve the heights of 2005 again. I think they can do it but it'll take some hard work. Something that the Australians did.
Complain about this postFor me the greatest problem is the approach of our management team and the approach of the players.
The management still seem to think that we live in the Victorian era of "gentlemen" rather than sporting professionals and choose coaches and players on a "best man" basis instead of best player basis.
The players realise this and pretend to be professional saying things like: look at the treatment the England football team got in Germany in the world cup - we should have our families here too. [Why someone didn't immediately riposte "And look at their results..." is due to the "gentleman" approach of the management.]
Until this cosy existence changes at the highest levels, we will forever (barring a huge stroke of luck) be consigned to anguish in events like the Ashes.
Complain about this postIt's easy to get carried away with doom and gloom, but England still have a nucleus of 6 or 7 good players. The injuries, selections, preparations etc have all been blamed on the 5-0 drubbing. However, the biggest factor was the loss of intensity that won us the last Ashes. That had already gone in the first post-Ashes test in Pakistan. It should be noted that Vaughan captained in that test, so his come-back is not necessarily the quick fix either. Intensity in performance means winning the key phases in sessions and matches, because you are always ready to take them. We started to learn a kind of crude, buttock-clenching intensity under Hussain, based on shouting a lot if we under-performed. Under Vaughan, this matured into something more sophisticated that brought the team's performance up to a higher level. The result was several good series wins and the holy grail of the Ashes. Since then, this intensity has never been rediscovered. Maybe winning the Ashes appeared to be the pinnacle of achievement. The truth is that our future selections must ensure that this intensity comes back. For example, if a bowler isn't taking wickets, he keeps his end tight to create pressure for the other bowler. Similarly, if a batsmen is struggling to hit boundaries and force the pace, he should be capable of pushing the single to keep the strike rotating and pressurise the bowlers. Not rocket science. The issue of Flintoff / Strauss / Vaughan / AN Other as captain is not the vital factor, though some of these are obviously more experienced than others. The issue is never allowing an England XI to take the field again without competing with intensity for ALL of a session, ALL of day and ALL of a match. There is never any shame in losing under those circumstances. Australia have been doing this for years and are worthy 5-0 winners.
Complain about this postIf the majority of British Society adopts the approach that the taking part as opposed to winning is all important, we lose our competitive edge at an international level. By reducing the pool of 'competitors' due to cultural pressures whereby no one loses and all receive praise and prizes out of all proportion to our successes, we dilute the hunger seen all too clearly by the Australian team in the recent series.
However, let us also remember the significant strides that had been made prior to this tour, culminating in the last Ashes success and incorporate this into a formula that should see success in the long run.
Complain about this postI would like to ask though. How does such a team made up of multinationals encourages and insipre each other to play with passion, and say we play FOR ENGLAND!? is the team spirits team lifted up if someone like Kevin Peterson plays so brilliantly knowing fully well he is a South African, who if SA cricket was up there with the best in the world would have opted to play for them? Does KP even cherishes the queen, does he understands the meanng of God Save The Queen, is he proud of the English Hstory? what i am saying is playing for ones country with passion rubs off on other players. KP played brilliantly in this test but i have to wonder what other players think of him, of his motives and if his heart is really with England.
Complain about this postone of the reason why Australia win besides having world class players is that they identify themselves with Australia and they are very proud of their heritage.
Aggers - spot on as is usually the case.
As a Scot i was watching as a neutral and a couple of things stood out like a sore thumb as England's main problems.
1. KP was far the most successful English batsmen, but why in 3 test matches did he take a single with the first ball of every over when batting with 9,10 and 11. It smacks of either a batsmen with astonishing naivety, incredibly stupid orders from captain/management or a batsman solely interested in himself - i know which one i favour.
2. I played cricket for 25 years at a very low standard. When we had net practice i put down a small sheet of paper on a good length and line and was able to pitch the ball on this paper 18 times out of 20. Surely to god a professional cricketer (Harmison, Anderson, Mahmood et al. should be able to do the same. I'm sure in all the overs i ever bowled, i never bowled a ball to 2nd slip. Do these guys practice, because it certainly doesn't appear so. Australia's 2 best bowlers of the series were Clark and McGrath - both bowled the same line and length consistently putting batsmen under enormous pressure. It really does seem that simple to me.
Anyway congratulations to Australia on playing cocsistently some of the best cricket i've ever watched and commiserations to England - try practising in the nets now and again.
P.S - Someone advise Mr.Collingwood that there is a time and a place for sledging Mr.Warne etc. and day 3 of test 5 certainly was not the time or place. Sledging would appear to be another area of the game where England could do with a net or two.
Best wishes to you all - Ian
Complain about this postAch Jo! That's Czech for Oh Dear!
Complain about this postLet's face it, we've been beaten by the best team in the world. Man for man they're better than us and they've played to the top of their form.
What makes the Aussies a truly great team is their excellence and consistency in every department of the game. In this respect they bear comparison with the great West Indies teams of the 70/80's. But they have the edge with Warne and Gilchrist.
The current English commentators may like to look back at how they fared against the Windies before casting too many aspersions on this group of players.
Potentially, we have the prospect of developing our strongest batting line-up for many years; if they can become consistent.
The worry is our lack of bowlers. This has plagued England for decades. We've never been able to field 4 bowlers who could consistently threaten the opposition or keep them under continuous pressure. We just about managed it in the 2005 Ashes. But the effort of doing so seems to have worn them out with injuries.
Another aspect of the poor bowling we see in our game as a whole is that our batsmen only get challenged in Test matches. By then it's too late to refine their technique.
We may be able to challenge the Aussies in 2009. But we'll need to bowl them out twice in every match. Our batsmen will need to buckle under and turn their 20s into 50s and their 60s into 100s. To do so they're going to have to learn to bat all day if that's what it takes. Agression and a run rate of 5 an over is all very well at times but they need to develope patience and a solid defence.
For the team to have any chance of upping their game we need to look at the preparation and the number of one dayers. We can't expect the guys to fly out and acclimatise in a week or so as happened this time. I read somehwere that the whole England entourage was something like 100 for this tour. Maybe this many people are necessary, but they don't have to deliver the goods on the pitch. We need to get rid of the gin-and-tonic brigade, who happily sold off our terrestrial TV coverage, and concentrate on getting the players to play to their potential.
All that being said, we have to remember how wonderful this bunch of Aussies are and the sheer pleasure, even in defeat, of watching them deliver masterclasses in batting and bowling.
Complain about this postThis tour seemed doomed from the start, a lack of preparation and poor selection gave the wrong impression to the aussies. Playing Giles in the first test just gave the impression that we were frightened of them.
Rather than playing people who are in form, we seem to select people on a forulaic basis i.e we have to have someone who can bat at number 8. The result has been Giles and then Mahmood, one who hadn't played for a year and one who clearly isn't a good enough bowler yet at this level. John Lewis doesn't get a look in because he doesn't fit into Fletcher's pre-determined ideas about what a cricketer should be.
Maybe Lewis isn't the quickest bowler but he seems capable of putting it in the right area. Perhaps it's no suprise that Clarke, McGrath and Hoggard have been the most consistent bowlers in the series!
Complain about this postAs cricket fans we have to be realistic, the Ashes win in 2005 flattered to deceive.
Caught in the post euphoria of 2005 resulted in the belief that England were the newly crowned champions of world cricket.
But England's form since has been indifferent and subconsciously believed their 2005 Ashes win was the highlight of their careers.
They rested on their laurels and failed to progress further. The Australians wanted their revenge and worked extremely hard since 2005 to make a 5-0 2007 series win possible.
Even without McGrath who did not bowl in Australia's two defeats and with Gillespie not performing at all, we forget how close Australia came to retaining the Ashes in 2005.
Australia stand head and shoulders above the rest of the cricketing nations.
Complain about this postI am a West Indian who has always admired English cricket for its fierce gentlemanly competitiveness. It is appalling to witness such spineless capitulation. In the interest of World Cricket it is imperative that English Cricket be competitive and sooner rather than later. First lesson would be to remember that no allrounder has ever distinguished himself as an all inspiring successful captain. Psychologically, they are simply too individualistic as a species. Please dont forget the dream of every seedling cricketer is to represent his country at Lords. Let that dream mean something.
Complain about this postWhat a shambolic tour this has been for England. Little preparation, dire bowling and fielding and lack lustre batting {although all credit to Collingwood and Bell for their efforts}. No noticeable bond between the players with their families and loved ones floating around in the background creating a unecessary distraction and a some players more concerned with their new found celeb status than working at playing the game for which they are employed and well paid to do at the best of their abilities.
Complain about this postMy biggest critiscism is reserved not however for the coach, Duncan Fletcher but for Andrew Flintoff who has demonstrated and confirmed in my mind his inablity to lead his ten colleagues into battle. I never believed that he was the right man to instil discipline into the side - who can forget the inebriated state that he presented himself to the nation on the Victory procession after the Oval Test? Or the stories, after the Brisbane humiliation, of his after hours drinking exploits in the Aussie dressing room. Can you imagine Ricky Ponting in a similar situation acting in this manner? Andrew Strauss did a good workmanlike job during the summer when plunged into the deep end after Flintoff and Vaughan were both incapacitated and should have been allowed to continue his development to the higher order - he has often been mooted as a future Captain so why treat him in this way?? Back to the drawing board England and no time for feet up and reflection on this disaster. Training now all day, everyday for the One Dayers and try and win the odd one.
England have always fought according to the last war or in this case last series/tournament across most sports. Sir Clive Woodward and before him Sir Alf Ramsey were noted for being single minded forward looking results driven people something England cricket desperately need.
Complain about this postI was in Oz in November and early December on Holidays. It was impossible not to be aware of the preparations and fever pitch of the Australians, in their backing for the Ozzies to win. Every bus had "bash the poms" blazened across them & Adverts everywhere. On breakfast TV they really went to town and even the weather forcast team made cutting remarks. They were 'UP for IT'. We seemed to have lost our way after winning one series. I hope we dont go back to the times when once you were in the England team it was nearly impossible to get out. Even if you were rubbish!!
Complain about this postHarsh decisions must be taken and please get some real practice matches in before the next test series. I dont think the one dayers will matter! The laurels you were resting on have shrivelled up.
what should have been said after the match by flintoff and fletcher
We wholeheartedly apologise for our totally inept performances during this series. We did not do justice to the honour that should be playing for your country. We would all much rather be somewhere else and at times playing these matches has been somewhat of an inconvenience to us. Sorry for everyone who wasted money on coming half way around the world to watch us capitulate so feebly. there are no positives from this series other than we cant ever do as badly again. we all tender the resignation of our mbe awards. we do not deserve them.
Complain about this postSpot on!
Complain about this postI used to captain a club side and instilled a more "professional" attitude in my team than these so-called England pro's. Tattoos, Ear-rings - what has happened to our team - you didn't get these in my day.
Complain about this postI thought it was ironic that England set the Australians a target of 46, a score that they themselves never reached without losing a wicket.
In my opinion their batting performance is what has undone England. Of course they were up against some of the world's best bowlers, but the statistics of the Sydney match reflect something gone horribly wrong.
Complain about this postAggers,
Thanks for your terrific radio commentary on ABC radio. It has been a pleasure to listen to someone with intelligence, humour, and a genuine love for the game of Cricket.
Complain about this postI'm one Aussie Cricket fan a little disappointed with the outcome of this Ashes series. I would have preferred a much closer, more evenly balanced contest. It gives me no great pleasure to witness the humiliation of a once great cricketing nation.
Aggers is right: some drastic reforms need to be implemented! World cricket is stronger when England is strong. It's no use hoping that the absence of Warne & McGrath will even things up.
The Aussies won't have a problem replacing them and Langer with newer, very capable replacements(eg. Phil Jacqes).
The ECB have got to get off their backsides, and make some hard decisions!
i battered a few Australians in 2005 and did I get an MBE for it? did I heck, I went to prison
that's what should happen to our lot
Complain about this postWe seem to have a dearth of good left arm seam bowlers in this country. I taught many young keen bowlers the art of the "in-ducker" - we need someone to resurrect this style of bowling for the future of the game.
Complain about this postHi Judy & Sally P (post 377). Roger Twose was good, but I seem to recall he went off to play for New Zealand many years ago, so not much good for Engalnd.
Complain about this postWatching an interview with Steve Harmison a couple of days ago summed up the differences in attitude between the two sides. It was obvious he couldn't wait to go home - I'm sure his opting out of the one day series reflects this rather than the "prolonging test match career" line. Also he seemed to have no opinions of his own - he was always telling the interviewer to ask the captain or the coach? What does he do when he wants to go to the toilet - ask Duncan Fletcher?!
Complain about this postEngland have been a victim of their own hype. The victory in 2005 against the Aussies was a false dawn but a lot of the players belived in their own legend. The seeds of this losss were sown as soon as that series ended. Whilst it was quite rightly celebrated , I believe we went completely over the top in our celebration, proclaming ourselves as the best team in the world after beating an out of form Aussie team.
Complain about this postHowever we need to look forward and see what can be done so that this never happens again. For this to happen we need to engage the opinions of people like Geoff Boycott , Aggers , Beefy. Boycs has it absolutely right that the team can't seem to take criticism from ex-players too well , particualry those in the media. But it is these people whose opnion is needed.
The aussies don't sulk, they take it on the chin and get on with matters.
Harmison needs to make up his mind if he wants to open the bowling for England and if he wants to be one of the top three fast bowers in the world. If he does, he needs to go away and first understand that he has let people down and second, work like hell to restore his fitness (both mental and physical), confidence and hunger for aggressive bowlng. It might take a while - and he needs to be completely honest with himself - but it is surely worth the effort. He has the talent.
Complain about this postBut at the moment, it looks like he does not want it enough. it just looks like he has an appalling attitude - spoilt and sulky - and unwilling to take on responsibilities. Either do it for yourself and sort it out or quit. It's too painful and upsetting otherwise for everyone concerned.
Its not the end of the world, we just need to give our group of VERY talented players time to gather experience! HOWEVER, the team does need to a few new faces. Steven Davies is BY FAR the best keeper bat in the country and should be installed at 7, whilst Stuart Broads disiplin with line and lengh bowling and lower order batting could work at 8. And if Simon Jones is fit then that would bolster the fast bowling. My team looks like this;
1 Strauss 2 Vaughan 3 Cook 4 Pietersen 5 Bell 6 Flintoff 7 Davies 8 Broad 9 Panasar 10 Hoggard 11 Jones.
I feel sick leaving out Colly, but I'm affraid Bell HAS to play. As for Harmy................PROVE YOU WANT TO PLAY (DIE) FOR YOUR COUNTRY?
Complain about this postAggers
Spot on!
What dissapoints is the spineless performance of a probably the best side we could send because of injuries. Who else would we have sent?
In '05 Asutralia did not play well and did not have McGrath for 2 tests BUT THEY FAUGHT LIKE TIGERS ... and England did not learn that lesson from them.
In Pakistan they threw the 1st test away with an awful batting display. In Australia the just plainly could not bat at all apart from 2 or 3 session in the whole 5 match series.
And then Freddie says they tried their best - they all wanted to shine? All of these players need to to take a long HARD look in the mirror and ask themselves do they want to play TEST MATCH CRICKET?
The whole of English cricket needs to explore the depths of this performance - at not stage did England ever look like competing with the green & gold. But , AND THIS IS THE BIG DIFFERENCE, the Aussies like the professionals they are drove home their advantage at EVERY stage - no mercy was shown.
I could go on - just hugely let down by the ECB and the coaches and players sent down under.
Mark Walton
Complain about this postAggers. Having read some of 320 mails I am more convinced than ever of the wisdom of the fans. Huge insights here. TABULATE THEM!
DISTILL THEM! PASS THEM ON!
Here's suggesstion for England's 1st X! in the late summer of 2007
STRAUSS (cAPT)
COOK
BELL
PIETERSEN
KEY
COLLINGWOOD
FLINTOFF
POTHAS
BROAD
PANESAR
HARMISON/TREMLETT
This assumes Collingwood can BOWL!
Complain about this postCoach: MOODY (Australian but knows Worcestershire and English cricket rather well!)
Well, at least we won't have to see this debacle again.
Due to the fact that the ECB sold out on the English public by selling off the viewing rights to Sky !
Along with decisions like the above and negative thinking throughout this tour we need to ask questions of the people running English cricket.
Complain about this post"I am absolutely sure that they believe they tried their best on each and every day" - Come on Aggers, get off the fence and say that as far as the batting was concerned, they didn't play with 100% application . Bell, Strauss, Collingwood and Pietersen are experienced pros and were not so hopelessly out of form that they couldn't get starts of 20-30 (all averaged 20+) and therefore need 'time in the middle'. Two 100s from 40 innings from those players is not good enough to compete. There has been too much focus on the bowling - the batting has been equally woeful, and more worryingly, willful.
Complain about this postI'm surprised to say that as an Englishman I'm happy with the Ashes Result. Don't get me wrong, I think England performed terribly, but if anything I feel almost apologetic to the Australians. They deserved better opposition at the end of a Cricket era, not just in Australia but across the world. I think it's testament to the sport that I can feel utter respect for a foreign team. I certainly don't ever feel that way in football or rugby. For all the sledging that goes on during the match, you know that most of the players are playing in the spirit which is unique to the sport. I had tickets to the last 2 tests, but was unable to fly to Oz due to family bereavement. Many people have said to me "I bet you're glad you couldn't go now!", but strangely I don't feel like that. Yes I wanted to see England win, but more so I wanted to see some of the utter legends of the game for the last time. Just as my father told me about watching the greats of his era (circa 1940) I wanted to be able to say that I was there to see Warne, McGrath, Gilchrist & Langer as they bowed out in the only way they knew how, with an unfaltering belief in themselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Flintoff, Pieterson, Lee and Ponting may join that list, but they're not in the same league yet. The other reason I wanted to be there was to listen to Richie Benaud and Tony Grieg commentating. It's disgusting that in this world of technology we can't choose who we listen to. While we live with celebrity sports stars in football, Cricket has managed to maintain the feeling that an exciting match and display of skill played in good spirit is almost more important than the result. Why did England loose? We tried to turn our players into celebrities.
Complain about this postWee said, I could not agree more. I think by playing it down and saying they weren't good enough but tried their best is an insult. The gave the Aussies not only a lead on the grass but in the changing room. They took the whole series too lightly, of course they won't come out and say that, but those in the know, like Aggers and Boycott have acknowleded it.
Complain about this postI can understand why England will take much flak for how this series went. However, even if they had done the things that Jonathan Agnew suggests above, I wonder how much difference it would have made to the end result. 3-0 Australia, perhaps, with most of the games ending on the fifth day?
The point being that the outcome of this series was determined more by the spirit and desire of Australia, especially the likes of Ponting, McGrath, and the irreplacable Warne, to win back the Ashes in an all-conquering manner. As said above, England were playing against a juggernaut from the first ball of the series and would have required several peak performances to have had any hope. Injuries and other losses of form put paid to that.
In any event, congratulations to Australia on a very rare achievement - an Ashes whitewash. It will probably be a decade or more before there is a team of this quality again. Today is bittersweet in that sense.
Complain about this postWhat annoys me is not the 5-0 whitewash but the fact that is was so avoidable. If only we had prepared properly, picked the right captain (Flintoff should have been left to focus on his own game) and started with the right team we surely would have been more competetive from day 1. Fletcher, Graveney, Morgan and Flintoff have all hidden behind one another rather than stand up and be responsible for their decisions. We deserve answers to key questions; Who agreed to the tour schedule, allowing no-time for preparation? Who selected Giles, Jones and Anderson for the first test? Who let Harmison get away with no meaningful bowling prior to the first test, who allowed WAGS to be present so early in the tour and bearing in mind when they were scheduled to arrive why didn't the players go straight to Australia after the Champions Trophy? We knew the Aussies were going to come at us hard, so why didn't we respond? We lost key battles in every test and Jones's run out by Ponting following an LBW shout from Warne in the 3rd test and Mahmoods failure to run out Warne at a critical moment in the 5th said it all for me - men against boys! I don't blame Boycott for saying that his MBE has been undervalued by this fiasco - I could have taken my club side out there and done no worse!
Complain about this postA lot has been rightly made of the poor preparation of the England side and the match hungriness of the Australians but another factor comes into play. England went to Australia with a very inexperienced and young side.
Arguably, you don鈥檛 become an established Test player till you鈥檝e completed 25 Test matches.
At Sydney, England fielded a side with only 3 fully established, experienced Test players. Flintoff, Harmison and Strauss between them have played 150 Test Matches. The rest of the England side could only boast 125 Tests in total. For all their talents, Pietersen, Collingwood and Bell are still nothing like the finished article.
By comparison Australia fielded only 3 inexperienced players with 35 Tests between them. The other 8 Australians had nearly 750 Tests worth of experience.
England didn鈥檛 have that many other options for this tour. The current side is one in the making with a lot of young but raw talent. The question for the future is how we nurture and develop it.
Complain about this postI firmly believe that with all the hype and bulls**t last year after the English won the ashes back and the orgy of self-congratulations that went on for weeks after affected the way that the ECB and the English team viewed Australia.
They believed that the gap between the two teams was nothing. Instead of looking at the 2005 series as a whole they looked at the results.
From this they failed to see that they almost lost the first match they won and Australia almost came back in the final test to tie the series and retain the ashes.
As you say Jonathon, us Australians are extremely competitive and when we lose something, we become extremely introspective and work out what went wrong and how to fix it.
England are now working towards 2009. I think that this is wrong, they should be working towards the next series and how they can win that.
Then maybe in 2009, the English team might have a slim chance of winning against us. Because rest assured, the ACB is now looking at the players who are going to replace those who have just retired. And there are a lot of excellent young hungry players coming up through the state teams right now eager to make a mark on the world of cricket.
Complain about this postI delighted greatly in the Aussies domination and win, not in so much a brutal way, but in the professional approach to the contest, before, and during the entire series.
It is a bad call for critics to blame individual players in the England side, be it captain, coach or new recruits, as I doubt if any came into the series totally complacent. It would be unfair on their individual talents and achievements.
What has been missing for England is preparation. With a mix of guys with differing characters and experience, there is no single simple preparation method - you cannot expect Freddie to lead a bunch of guys who have never played together; you cannot expect young guys who have hardly ever toured, to come halfway across the globe to play arguably the best team in the world, without being properly prepared. Even on the last point, for any player to face such opposition is always going to be daunting task, physically, psychologically and emotionally.
If you go out to play against a more highly skilled team and you lose knowing that you played to the best of your ability, then fair play. But in this case, we know that this England team were unable to achieve their best.
The Aussies spent a year preparing for this series in all manner of ways, with no stone unturned.
If England want to be competitive, they (including all the supporters and critics in the public) have to accept, understand and fully appreciate all aspects of the last five tests and take some action now, so that when they next take to the field, they will go out there, with their honest knowledge, playing to the heights of their abilities.
Complain about this postA lot of people call us whinging poms a badge I find abhorrent and completely without foundation but you have to agree that the real England lost is because:-
1. They would not let the trumpeter in
Complain about this post2. It was too hot
3. The umpiring decisions all went against us
4. It is very difficult to play in the middle of the night
5. Badly cooked Aussie turkeys
7. The wives and girlfriends kept nagging them
6. We did not pick Robert Key
Vaughan must be brought back to restore the team balance and discipline. Let Freddie get on with what he does best - fast and in yer face. Simon Jones will also be a welcome return if fit.
Complain about this postI agree with Aggers when he says about having the wifes and girlfriend present. Its just like the England football team, they had all the Wags over in Germany from the start of the World Cup and look what happened there. I havent got Sky TV so I listened to TSP every night in bed sometimes to the early hours. The wife said I must be mad, I don't usuall agree with the Mrs but this time I think she's right.
Complain about this postI love Geoff Boycott. He should be "Sir Geoffrey" in my view. As for Aggers he probably deserves an MBE too for having to put up with that drivel for 2 months.
Spare a thought for those that were on the tour who didn't play (Joyce, Plunkett, Dalrymple). How depressing is that?
As a South African animal has anyone noticed a much more interesting contest going on in my homeland. The Cape Town test is riveting. Forget England vs Australia and focus on that instead.
Complain about this postWhere are all the comparisons with football? Whenever England do well, cricket fans, like rugby fans, love to bang on about the 'superiority' of their sport over football.
Odd that there's no mention of football now that England have been hammered in the Ashes.
Is the sport of cricket less impressive when England lose?
Complain about this postAfter this humiliating thrashing by the Aussies, Flintoff & co are already talking about the "next Ashes in 3 years time".
Complain about this postAfter the win in 2005, the talk was nothing but about the 2006 Ashes.
What about all the other Test matches against the other Test nations?
Unless we can get away from this fixation with the Ashes, to the exclusion of all other cricket, including the World Cup, we'll get nowhere.
We must not, and can not, have the Ashes series every 2 years or so as the sole reason for the existance of an England cricket team.
The Ashes are very very important, yes! but not to the point of virtually 'relegating' all other Tests and ODI's as mere 'preparation'.
Firstly, im going to point out that im a Geraint Jones fan. Secondly i hate the way he was made a scape goat for the first three losses...but lets look at Chris Read:
3, 26, 2, 4. Those were his runs in his Ashes series. Yeah he also took some catches, all of which could be described as routine.
Watching the Collingwood v Warne showdown, i know exactly why Read wasn't picked, he has no banter. He was deadly silent whilst Colly took all the stick from Shane Warne.
Bring back Jones...we all remember how Flintoff & Jones rocked South Africa, and its clear that FLintoff doesnt regard Read as a decent partner for a 6-7 batting combination!
Jones & Jones for england!
Complain about this postI am english through and through but live in Australia and am aware of a strong culture here which I think has something to do with the emphatic victory witnessed over the 5 match series. Hopefully comments mentioned can resonate the feelings of millions of english people and reflect some of the mjor issues from the thrashing by an undoubtedly capable and focussed Australian Test side:
1. English test side arrived unprepared - fact
Complain about this post2. The 1st test at the Gaba was to an extent affected by de-stabilisation of the english supporters by the ejection from the game of bugler player or joyful supporters alike.
3. In Australia, all sportspersons are supported by the press and countrymen. Anything Australian is praised to the hilt. England must inject a spirit into itself that still whilst embracing multi-culturalism must allow an English/British label to be attached to that person who represents this country, and allow them to grow and feel proud of that too. If the gutter press can simply continue to print the damming rubbush and sell newspapers (basically because the average reader wants to see the page 3 girl) then you fuel the fires that inevitably burn us and kill the spirit that is needed to regain the passion in sport at international level and achieve. I believe all englishman can do something to help their cause.
3. Sort out the ECB administration that instigated the shambles. Its not the players, its the admin that allowed this debarkle to occur! Its been said already, if a business goes bust, or doesnt achieve its targets, then the top people are accountable, no difference in this case. No excuses, you are accountable for your actions just like everyine else.
4. Get on with the re-build and never let this happen again please!
Good rant Aggers, well said and I agree will all except that they 'tried their best each and every day'.
Complain about this postThere was a huge lack of focus in my opinion - giving away too many sloppy wickets, bowling way too inaccurately, terrible fielding and not keeping up any intensity. If that was their best... no, it's not worth thinking about!
Aggers, you're a true gent but I think it means you're scared of hurting the feelings of some of your chums.
They need a roasting not a toasting.
What is all this about familys affecting the ashes series? Surely whilst playing the 2005 ashes the players regulary saw their familys? Or did they spend the entire summer in solitary?
Complain about this postIt is worth remembering how lucky the Australian selectors were. Stuart Clark (leading wicket taker of the series) only played in the first test when the selectors had to re-jig things with the injury to Shane Watston. Before that they seemed to be leaning towards Mitchell Johnson.
It was the same re-jig that brought Michael Clarke into the team and he scored 2 centuries and a fifty.
Who knows how things would have turned out if Australia had played the team they wanted - I suspect not 5-0.
Complain about this postThoroughly depressing, though entirely predictable. I remember before the series started saying to my brother that England wouldn't know what would hit them, he laughed- there's unrest in their camp following the trek into the Outback, they're all a year older;England will retain the Ashes. Oh dear, what he or I didn't count on was the serious lack of preparation. The first ball of the series was a shocker and set the tone. On paper this team was better than the 90/91, 94/95, 98/99, 02/03 sides, and all of them managed to scrape a win. There should be an inquiry open to the press and public in to this shambles. Morgan, Hillier, Fletcher, Graveney have all got to go, NOW!!
Complain about this postPlayers need to start playing more county cricket, have a squad of 20 players, I could go on...
There really is so much this 5-0 defeat tells us not only about the England team, but about the game in England.
1. Most crucially, Australia has a proper and competitive feeder system to the national team. Making it into one of the six state sides is itself an achievement and an indicator of cricketing quality. The County Championship, though, is too full of second and third-raters: there are simply not enough high-calibre players to fill out 18 teams! Imagine the likely outcome if Pura Cup champions and leaders, Queensland, were pitted against our county champions, Sussex, in a five-match series of first-class games: my money would be on 5-0 to the Australians, weather permitting.
Solution? Ideally reduce the number of first-class counties (not about to happen any time soon). More realistically, establish a genuinely elite premier division and let it be known that a de facto prerequisite for England selection will be experience and high performance in that competition.
2. By all means show loyalty to performing players, but retain an element of hard-headedness: require players to demonstrate ongoing commitment (this means you, Steve Harmison) and performance (Geraint Jones), and to be properly fit before being thrown back into the fray (Messrs Giles and, dare it be said, Flintoff).
3. Recognize that the job specifications of captain and talisman are radically different. Vaughan and Flintoff both played inspirational roles in the 2005 Ashes victory and it was, arguably, their synergy that generated the success. By burdening one man this time with both responsibilities (and at a time when he has apparently not even been fully fit) we have diluted England's leadership out of existence.
4. Never let the players forget that this is their profession and that, on some level, they represent not merely the England & Wales Cricket Board but the entire cricket-loving people of this country and maybe even more. That was the real message of the MBEs, the team picture with HM The Queen and so forth. It should not be too far-fetched to label what the England team are sent out to do as a responsibility to the nation.
5. In this series, England posted three tolerable innings scores - but two of those were in causes that had already been lost. Out of ten completed innings scores we had: 129, 147, 157, 159, 161 and 215 - that is a 60% abject failure rate. All were eclipsed by even Australia's lowest total (the 244 at Perth).
Looking at those six inadequate innings alone, only Bell, Pietersen and Strauss scored fifties and the batting statistics make interesting reading.
Strauss 193 in 6 completed innings. Ave. 32.2
Pietersen 139 , 6 , 23.2
Collingwood 99 , 5 , 19.8
Bell 113 , 6 , 18.8
Read 33 , 2 , 16.5
Giles 24 , 2 , 12.0
Cook 70 , 6 , 11.7
Harmison 58 , 5 , 11.6
Panesar 34 , 3 , 11.3
Flintoff 60 , 6 , 10.0
The other four posted single-figure averages. One major requirement for success at this level is an ability to keep your head while others around you are losing theirs. Only Strauss (who, throughout the series, tended to perish while attempting to dominate) came close to doing this. He outscored opening partner, Cook, every time and, despite the latter's undoubted potential and rearguard century at Perth, Cook does not yet seem ready to open at the highest level. Much has been said about the failure of England's tail to wag, but the real shortcomings have been higher up the order. Most of all, these figures testify to the neutering of Flintoff as talisman!
Complain about this postWell the one good thing from the debacle is we will be rid of the 2005 bandwagon jumpers with their crass football attitudes, though clearly not yet judging from some of the comments on here.
Complain about this postThought James was about right with his comments - truth is these players are by and large the best available and little would have been served by drafting in a bunch of untried hopefuls in place of those whose preparation was spoiled by injury.Those who have the character to come back from this will show it over the next year or two and
those who don't will be replaced sooner or later.
Too many people who should have known better went into this series believing myths.
"England's batting is very strong"- WRONG.Once Tresco went home the batting depended heavily on a good start from Strauss (who had the tour from hell) and Cook who has tons of promise but a lot to learn.If your top 3 struggle in Australia you are in trouble -history doesn't lie.
"Monty will be a matchwinner"
Well no - fingerspinners don't dominate in Australia - why do you think they always select leggies?He is a great prospect but a two edged sword as his presence currently assures a tail of 4 number 11s. Which again you can't afford against this lot.
"Freddie can inspire by leading from the front"...perhaps if he had a new ankle.Sadly that ankle raises another problem for the future:clearly Freddie as one of only 4 bowlers helps the tail problem, but will he ever be able to take on that much bowling again?He certainly wasn't able to do it here.
Not that it will matter in the short term - with all its imperfections England can compete with the rest. But we will need to get it all right again by 2009.....
Whilst I am as disappointed as anyone at the 5-0 humiliation, one thing I can't overlook is the fact that 4 key players from the victorious 2005 team were missing from this one.
Firslty of course the captain. Also a key opener in Trescothick. A key bowler in Jones, and whether you rate him or not Ashley Giles contributed much in that series and whilst he made a couple of half fit appearances was effectively missing.
Add to this the fact that Flintoff has recently had a persistant ankle problem, Anderson (a replacement for Jones presumably) has only just returned from a lengthy lay off and even the ever dependable Hoggard missed the final test; how on earth would we stand any chance of matching the Aussies?
To be missing so many players against one of the great sides ever to play the game, and against a team who we only just managed to beat previously, is it really such a surprise?
So, is a wide-reaching full enquiry really necessary?
Complain about this postThe problem is that we laud the likes of Flintoff, Fletcher and Vaughan and become self satisfied. When Boycott, correctly, said Fletcher had run his course he was slaughtered by some idiots but what are they saying now??????
The point is that we should not let temporary success stop us from going on to be number 1 in the world - or at least trying to be.
As Warne said an MBE for 7 runs!
Basically we can restart the academy properly and start to drop players on attitude whatever short term loss not seeing Harmison not playing would result in. It is up to the players to motivate themselves and the coaches to facillitate.
Also one bowling coach spent what %tage of his time with Harmison? We need a professional coaching set-up divorced from management and selection (ditto captain and senior player selection even on tour).
A less comfortable place but one that recognises the players have to be more self reliant and gives them more assistance of they want it and the boot if they do not (yes you Harmison, Flintoff, Mahmoud etc)
Complain about this postGood article dude .
Arrogance and complacency gets the better of you in the end and it certainly did in the case of Eng. All the over the top celebrations and the pomp and pagentry that went with Ashes 05 was not needed.
As a nation, we seem to love over achievers. We over achieved in 05 against a poor Aussie show yet the team thought they were world beaters. Celebrate like that when you dominated cricket for 15yrs not for 15 mins. Symbolic of OTT celebration was the way in which Pieterson reacted once Collingwood was out for 200 odd in the 2nd test. He walked alongside Colly back to the boundary rope - clapping him off, saluting him and rallying the Barmy Army. It was as if Colly had just slain Darth Vaider and saved the world from the Dark Side. In my years of watching cricket I havent seen this before, but certainly very odd. Also compare the celebrations between the Oval 05 and Sydney 07. A world of difference, we had Hollywood fanfare in South London - what was that all about ?
England have always historically managed tours poorly : chosing the wrong players, demoralising the remainding squad players etc. As pointed out - why was Trescothick originally in the squad after not going to India. You cannot pick and choose when you play International cricket. The age old question - why Giles after a year out ? Same for Jimmy Anderson ? Why Geriant Jones ? Why let the best bowling coach for years leave and join the opposition ? Strauss should have been skipper but I doubt he could have changed things. By leaving out Panesar , Read, Mahmood from the start would have shattered their confidence after having positive summers and its no wonder they havent been upto scratch when called into action.
So where now ? The inquest will begin. Firstly we need to look at the coach. Has Fletcher taken Eng as far as he can go - I've never been a fan? Vaughan is neither here or there, lets see if he can get fit and in form. In the long term , Freddie isnt captain material - give that honour to Strauss. The old grass roots questions still needs to be resolved - county cricket isnt producing an in depth pool of talentl Lets see what the players in waiting are like
In the meantime the crop of players from Ashes 05 seem to have fallen victim to the curse of the professional footballer - overpaid, over pampered with little reason for it.
Complain about this postThere is a lot of fuss being made about the thrashing England got. But let us be fair - these are not the best 2 teams of the world competing.
England will wake up and it will take couple of years before they can compete with Australia or other world class teams on equal terms.
Complain about this postAs a Brit who emigrated to Oz nearly 20 yrs ago I can say that I have divided loyalties. My Oz wife of course has not and I have been made to pay for the poor showing of the English team - too many rash bets emboldended by the 2005 Ashes result I fear.
Reading through these blogs I get a few impressions that I think are quite wrong.. We Brits tend to see others who are tough, focussed and relentless as arrogant - in my experience here it is not arrogance but self determination that sets the Aussies apart. (I have also lived in the USA and IF YOU TRULY WANT ARROGANCE THEN TRY THEM FOR SIZE). I have played a lot of cricket here and find that overall they give enormous respect to those who do their best and are genuinely fair. Their capacity to have a beer with a competitor after a game is a real mark of their sportmanship. No greater example can seen than in the various football codes where after the fiercest games you could imagine the players warmly shake hands and often embrace their foes of the past 90 mins.
The second thing I think we Brits have wrong is to think we can simply emulate the pride and guts that is the hallmark of any team represrenting Australia. The people we sent here, and our compatriots who emigrated here came to an uncompromising land where the fight to survive in a tough hostile environment bred a nation strong on self belief, mateship and seeing things through. We cannot simply replicate these things in a matter of a year or two or permanently. When we choose players, we must look at skill level and pride, determination and a "trenches" attitude to giving it your all.
Finally - if English supporters and the English team think that NEXT time in 2009 we will be better prepared, the Aussies will be older or retired then you will be in for a momentous shock. State cricket here is extremely competitive, it is full of future Husseys, Clarkes etc. But more importantly the Aussies will never turn up again in Blighty with anywhere near the same underdone approach as they did in 2005. They didn't just learn leassons that they put into place now but will remember and plan for 2009 as well. If anything they may be just as ruthless.
My kids love it here and so do I though you can never truly give up supporting the 3 Lions. The opportunities, the sunshine the lifestyle... I do miss my old haunts but truly as I load thre fridge with some beers for a barbie tomorrow and the weather looks like being perfect... why would I ever really want to go back. Maybe the English cricket team might sneak into Australia House to check out immigrating too!
Complain about this postthe writing has been on the wall ever since the Ashes victory in 2005...our ODI performances have been woeful...the Winter to tour to Pakistan was a total disaster, with some face saved in the series draw against India but things got worse against Sri Lanka before we beat a poor and understrength Pakistan in the Summer..Flintoff's injury has robbed England of one of the best fast bowlers around and Harmison's form for over past 24 months has been poor..apart from the odd innings where a fast bouncy pitch has played into his hands, Strauss needs to ask himself what has happened to him over the past year or so and we still haven't solved the fourth seamer issue with Anderson/Plunkett/Mahmood all falling short of the standard set by Simon Jones...
Complain about this postThis is the lowest level we have ever reached in English Cricket.
No positives from 5 matches .Totally outplayed and it was really men versu boys out there.
They seemed to put more effort into their New Year's celebration than on the field .
I think the the fact that the last five Aussie batsmen scored 173 and the last five English Batsmen scored 4 just about sums up our performance.
Pathetic and I hope they come home to an empty airport.
Complain about this postcan the queen have the MBE back now totally ashamed of this bunch of over paid fools and please no more tv interviews you make us looklike brainless fools harmo didnt even know what he was going to do when he lands back on these shores maybe a little practice at hitting some stumps
Complain about this postI see the old calls for the scrapping of county cricket in favour of a regional competition have appeared, doubtless by folks who rarely, if ever, give their time or money to actually supporting domestic cricket in England. Sorry, but English Cricket doesn't start and stop with the national side and, if Ashes defeat makes people ashamed to be English, they really need to go find themselves an identity; it's a ball game, not a war.
The domestic game in England has two equally valid functions; to develop players of international standard and to provide a national entertainment. The first of those requirements has been fulfilled for several years now, whilst in the second matter, English cricket leads the world; no other domestic competition takes the game to so many people and features such a variety of outstanding players from around the globe. The fact that England have just been caned by "the best side of all time" doesn't diminish the county set-up, any more than the hammerings taken by Australia from 1984 to 87 diminished the Sheffield Shield. However, to dismantle the county set-up in favour of a regional affair would irreversably destroy English domestic cricket's ability to provide an acceptable public entertainment. It could very easily destroy English cricket in the process.
Because, lovely suggestion that it is, how precisely are the county clubs going to be enticed to annihilate themselves? Would Arsenal quite happily merge with Tottenham if it was deemed "for the good of the national team"? Then there's the financial implications. County cricket currently brings around 拢10 million of members' subs into the game every year. Given that the ECB claimed that a 拢2 million fine for axing the Zimbabwe tour would have bankrupted English cricket, can it really afford to see five times that amout leak from the game annually? Because, make no mistake, those current county members have absolutely no interest in joining a merged regional outfit....that's of course, if they could ever manage travelling halfway across the country to watch "their" new team. And don't let's pretend that a regional competition will attract any more spectators than county games..anyone who attended the England A v Pakistan match at Canterbury last summer will know that a host of big names is no guarantee of a decent turnout.
Lord McLaurin recognised that regional cricket was a pipe dream when he proposed the two divisional championship. The hidden aim was always that the top talent in the land would graduate towards a handful of the better resourced clubs and that's exactly what has been happening, bit by bit, for the last few years. Slowly, an elite will form, based more or less in the big cities and with a regional hue...London, Manchester, Birmingham, South Coast (and, theoretically, Leeds and Nottingham). The reduction in clubs promoted and relegated from 3 to 2 plus less stringent rules governing player movement will accelerate this process. Thus, the championship will end up producing all the benefits of regional cricket but without the financial meltdown or the wilful destruction of tradition. Revolution might sound glamorous and exciting but it's invariably Reform that gets the job done.
Complain about this postOh Well, could have been worse. Remember when and Ashes series was 6 tests.....
If you go back to 2005, it all started with a thrashing, then a close game (oh so close) that England managed to come out of on top. Cue massive support and beleif and a series win.
2007, thrashing in the first, England in a good position in the second and throw it away. Australia did not win that test, it was given to them, handed on a plate. When I woke up to hear what Freddie and Fletch had done I could not understand why we gave them the chance to come back. Scoring 500 plus is great, but at only 3.2 an over you need to go on and make sure you only have to bat once. My Captaincy experience is limited to a village team in the 5th Division of the North Devon League, but even I know that you make the game safe, then try to win. Never give the Aussies a sniff of a win, a draw is so much better that going 2-0 down. That loss from a great position, thrown away as the game then was marked the point when 5-0 became a racing certainty as it forged self belief you could break rocks with amongst the Aussies and dispair amongst the English.
Complain about this postHuge dissapointment for cricket fans world-wide. It was billed as round two and a chance for the aussies to get revenge. Everyone knew how pumped up they would be, England basically failed to turn up, denying their fans and Australia's the chance to see a monumental battle and more exciting cricket like that seen in 2005. By the end I think the australian fans were a bit dissapointed too, once they had realised what a let down the series had become.
This, for me, is more important than pointing out England's injuries, lack of preparation, lack of motivation and passion, lack of planning and Australia's obvious superiority. I'm sure Glenn McGrath genuinally believes that if he had been fully fit for the whole of the 2005 series, Australia would have won. That's the way Australians are. It's what made that series so exciting, Australia were the better side and still are, but England raised their game and created a great spectacle for cricket lovers world-wide.
They are taught not even to speak frankly as well, these generic press conferences are so boring. How about a bit of honesty from Flintoff, Fletcher and co?! Having been destroyed in the first test, the second test was devestating. If we had drawn that, then maybe they wouldn't have been soulless for the rest of the series.
Complain about this postMc Grath took THREE wickets, get it right!!!!
Complain about this postWell done Aggers - at last you have made some sound sensible comments. BUT - and here's the rub, who will listen to you and more imprtantly, who will take some action?
Scores [out of 10] for the England party in Oz?
here are mine:
Strauss: 5 - need more from a senior batsman.
Cook: 4.5 - Good century, but ... don't flash outside the off-stump. A sound start to real life and huge promise to be fulfilled.
Bell: 4.5 - As a No.3 you have to make a big score every 2nd test match or every 3rd-4th innings. Keep going, you are good enough.
KP: 6 - top marks. You did your best. Well done.
Colly: 4.5 - you never gave up and made one big score, but we needed more. You are a fighter but you need a better leader.
Freddie: 3 - a score of 89 was your one and only highlight. You were a brilliant cricketer and will be again, when we find a new captain. You were simply outclassed, out-thought and out fought by Ricky Ponting.
Jones G: 1 - thank you for trying. Not good enough. You will not play for England again.
Read: 4 - Not entirely your fault but ... keep your head when batting if you want to keep your place.
Monty: 5.5 - Well done Son - a good start and agreat improvem,net in your all-round game. Fletcher is an idiot, so don't worry about him anymore.
Harmison: 3 - and you are lucky to get the extra half. Go and get some bowling practice or you will not play for England again.
Hoggard: 6 - our best bowler. Gutsy and dogged.
Mahmood: 2.5 - could have been a 3 if you had stayed awake for the run-out. More practice, for you do ahve potential.
Anderson: 3.5 - it took you until Sydney before you woke up. Not entirely your fault, I agree. We need extra matches for our back-up bowlers, and that lies soley at the feet of the Tour administrators.
Giles: 1 - You have been a great servant, now enjoy your retirement.
Others? Were there any? Nul points to them all.
Fletcher: minus 2. You wazzer. Poor scheduling. Crazy warm-up games with an idiotic attitude [Harmy only 5 overs, are you completely mad or just infuriatingly arrogant?]; terrible squad selection - c.f. Sir Clive WoodenHead's Lions' selections; terrible team choices and simply dreadful choice of captain [have you never heard of or read about Ian Botham?].
The future? Go and have a cuppa and let's discuss that next week when we've all calmed down a bit more. After all - it's only a game, isn't it. [c.f. Bill Shankly on football].
P.S. Where is the passion? Where is the emotion? Where is the desire to compete AND win?
Complain about this postHi
Complain about this postIn the spirit of fair play and the old adage "its not cricket" , as an English supporter should not the Australian Team be awarded MBE's for such an outstanding performance afterall the England Team were awarded them for what was then deemed an outstanding performance two year ago!
I feel this failure! was mostly down to Marcus Trescothick, Knowing he may have a problem not being prepared to withdraw from the England setup earlier, This inturn lead to England taking the wrong batting lineup. So for the first test England had to move three to eight up the order, This meant that England could not use Panesar as we needed the extra bat of Giles. From that point on all the heads of those involved went down and we never recovered. All the months of preparation work went down the drain at that point and we had no time for Cook to set himself up for openner not three. Pietersen batting three, four or nine would not have made any difference, Collingwood was then to important with the bat that he could not be called upon as a bits bowler. The tactic book was then replaced, and the second test second innings summed up our new tactics. Get the game over with, quick.
In summing up this sorry affair may I offer this advise. Do not bring in a knowledgable know nothing to establish the What, Why or How it all went wrong. Just let those that went explain how they felt it went and why. This allows all to express their true feelings - eg. Does Flintoft, as Capatin feel let down with people saying Strauss should have been captain. Selection panel of players for starting eleven help or hinder any player - All this avoids any witch hunts, Thus leting the Manager, Players and Backroom staff get on with, each other and the tasks ahead.
When looking to make sense of all this do take onboard the problems of all English sport. To much interference from the top and the know all experts upsets the plans and preparations ending in complete failure for the team and all these -Myself included- Know all experts are quick to say "Told you so".
Yours RonDCRooks
Complain about this postVaughan bottled it??? What a pathetic thing to say - the guy has been injured for a year - the England team have been living off the Ashes Victory in 2005 which has been their mistake.
Let us not forget the series victories that led up to their success in 2005. There has been little to shout about since the win in 2005 hence the team were nothing like the one which won. The country went Barmy about the Ashes totally dismissing the wins that had preceded it.
Vaughan is needed - his leadership and steel together with his ability to act on a different level is required to bring the team back - he is not just one of the lads he isa captain and that makes the difference.
Freddy needs to step back and star from the ranks and I am sure he will succeed. Let's not start saying 2009 is all that matters - the Series between and now and then need to be treated as Equally important to build a confident 'ruthless' team that met the Aussies in 2005.
Well done to Australia - they have continued at the top and this should not be forgotten - but let also not forget the run of Victories that they came into the Ashes on - the team is 'Great' and has destroyed all who have taken them on since their loss in 2005.
England need to start regaining their confidence, fitness and state of mind at the next series - not just talk about the next clash with the Aussies in 2 years time.
Complain about this postTalking of the MBE's, might the players as a mark of contrition return them until the Ashes are won back again?
At the time I was worried when the captain declared on the second day of the second test. The fans were enjoying themselves, Flintoff was looking good for a century. Why not bat-on for the third day and guarantee a draw with the slight chance of a England win.
J. Agnew and G. Boycott are developing into a great double act, what about a comedy sit-com based on and around TMS and personalities past and present?
Complain about this postUtterly embarrassing. I do not believe the difference between England and Australia is talent - it can only be mettle. English players simply haven't got the psychological strength to compete with the Aussies - England were beaten before they even put a foot on Australian soil.
Complain about this postThe english cricket authorities need to give serious consideration to restricting foriegn player access to County cricket.
What better preparation for "The Ashes" for Australian players than to play in the English County competition?
Meanwhile in the Australian summer, where are the English players in the inter-state competition?
Shane Warne is "out to pasture" as the Hampshire captain. A place that should be occupied by an up-and-coming Englishman.
Yes the Aussies are good...it's because we trained them!
Complain about this postThe mentality of English cricket is all wrong. All anyone talks about is Ashes this and Ashes that...there is more to world cricket than the Ashes.
The focus should be on becoming the number one team in the world, to do this you need to do things like win in Pakistan/India and beat Sri Lanka at home. Australia recognise this and see it as a challange-Why don't England?
The focus should be WI/India at home and then Sri Lanka away next winter NOT ashes 2009!.
England also need to start taking ODI seriously. It is a good way of introducing players to the international game- look at the likes of Gilchrist.
You need to develop the mentality to perform at a consistantly high level no matter who the opposition is/what format of the game you are playing, you can't just except to turn it on every 2 years!.
Also these group of players are pampered- one ashes victory and suddenly they are treating like superstars- MBEs, parades, sponsorships etc..they have not earnt that.
They need to be read the riot act and told to get back to executing the basics- playing for your country is an honour. There has been too much done to appease the players when sadly they haven't delivered.
Complain about this postI agree with Aggers, the powers that be must learn (but won't!) from the many mistakes of the Ashes tour.
It's easy to be wise after the event, but the concerns were being raised to Duncan before the first test.
Preparation - an insult to a great Aussie side. Why didn't we send a team of youngsters/fringe players to the Mickey Mouse (ICC) tournament and leave the test squad ample time to prepare in Australia?
Selection- Illogical to say the least. Dropping the "best finger spinner in the world" for a spinner who doesn't just because he may add an extra 20 runs. The top 5 should be concerned with the lack of faith shown in them. Next we will here that the England Football Manager has dropped his forwards for defenders because they are more adept at stopping goals.
Balance - Why play a medium fast bowler in 4 matches only to bowl him for 50 overs? Why didn't they bolster the top order with Joyce? Just look at the balance of the Aussie team. The counter maybe that the Aussies are blessed with a wicketkeeper/ batsmen who contributed with an average of 45. Move over Jones and Read. Why didn't a Sussex 24 yr old who averaged 46 last season or an Essex 26 yr old who averaged 48 get a look in.
Serious questions should be asked by the ECB about selection, the Coach, the Captain, the players and their actions....but unless the Turkeys start voting for xmas we'll be here in two years time after another roasting and stuffing.
Complain about this postLike all cricket loving fans, I was so disappointed in the way England have played.
At school we were always told to bowl line and length and let batsmen make mistakes when they get frustrated. Bowling at the stumps forces batmen to be careful in their strokeplay, but what we have seen is a barrage of wide, short or overpitched deliveries from England bowlers, which has made things so much easies for the Aussies. Getting back to basics is what is required....line and length!
As for the batting they are also guilty of foregoing the basics. Bat and pad together, foot to the ball, getting into line, something drummed into us at school in the 60s and never forgotten. I can't imagine that Geoff Boycott or Ken Barrington would ever give their wicket away so feebly as we have seen England top order batsmen do in this Test Series.
Getting back to basics coupled with discipline and determination to succeed must be an England priority and if Duncan Fletcher and the current selectors can't achieve this, then they need to go. Why not put Geoff Boycott and Ian Botham in charge, radical at times, they may be, but they would get the job done!
Kind regards
Mike Wigley
Complain about this postThe players can only shoulder so much of the blame. Every level of management has failed. Preparation and team selection were the biggest factors here. If players are undisciplined themselves then this must again come from the management.
We can only hope that the enquiry is brave enough to state the real causes than just fudge it to save face.
Complain about this postSuch has been the drought in English sport that we've resorted to national honours for single victories. We can look for reasons ad infinitum regarding this loss, but the truth is that we just weren't good enough. Our tabloid culture has turned these guys from hard-working cricketers into inflated stars with sponsorship deals wholly unrelated to sport. The same as in football and rugby. And look how well we're doing there. Yes, there is a lesson to be learnt. O yes, we talk a very good game. While we're talking, though, everyone else is playing a good game and proving that it's runs and wickets that win matches, not words. Every member of the coaching, management and playing team needs to pull their fingers out and earn their salaries or be dropped unceremoniously. What a rubbish winter and a rubbish year we have to look forward to. This England set-up should be hanging it's head in shame, not bleating about missing players and captains. The players who WERE there needed to turn up!
Complain about this postI've been an avid England criticket fan since 2001. It seems to me that in my short time as a lover of the best game in the world that this current batch of England players is the most talented we've had for some time - as or position in the test rankings demonstrates. Yet for the last year we haven't performed well at all. Culminating in an Ashes embarassment. If we accept that KP, Freddie and Harmison are capable of being world class players we have to ask why they aren't producing. We have some good youngsters in Cook, Bell, Panesar who have already shown the have the talent if not the experience to perform consistently. It seem to me that it's at heart ill discipline and poor judgement has cost England. I think we need another Nasser Hussain as captain! These guys don't seem to mind losing. Yeah they sayit hurts - but they don't show it on the pitch.
The Aussies are talented but they simply don't make mistakes and this is what makes them great. When an attacking batsman needs to dig in, he digs in and curbs his attacking nature. When the lower order needs to apply itself and stay in, they do. When bowlers need to hit a line and length, that's what they do. Surely our bowlers can hit a line and length - they are international cricketers for goodness sake! Fielder's chase every ball like it's their last. And the whole team is 100% focused at all times. That's why they take more of their opportunities than anyone else. I'd suggest that someone needs to explain to England what's good enough and what isn't. Take Mahmood's missed stumping - take the number of players falling to hook shots - or opprtunities when we could bat out for two days but batsmen look like the know they can't so they don't bother trying and use it as swinging practice.
They have the talent they just need some application. Freddie needs to getnasty with them.
Complain about this postThere's too much to say, and I don't want to bore on points that no-body will read at the bottom of this page.
I do pray though, that we don't use as a total get-out clause the quality of this Australian team, and the determination and crunch-time brilliance they produced.
You have to expect that from an opposition, and be ready to compete & win when your opposition play very well, not just when they trip over their own shoelaces and help you out.
Saying "We lost because Australia played so damn well" is ridiculous. They're nearly always going to play damn well - (so what, you always have to resign yourself to losing?).
You need to improve your own game, mental approach, preparation, your skills and your character so that you're positive and confidant in your play, not overawed & shocked that your opposition is actually trying very, very hard & performing right out of the gates.
p.s. Langer (for example) LOVES that baggy green. I don't mean he's proud to play for his country, he's not over-the-moon, happy, excited or anxious to play for his country. He loves that honour with a passion, a drive and a bloodthirsty reverence half our boys just haven't got inside them, no matter what half-hearted protestations about "trying hard" they mutter.
I've got to stop here, I feel a 10,000 word rant coming on.
Complain about this postI totally agree with you Jonathan. This is clearly an awful result and an embarrassment to English Cricket. I feel embarrassed and ashamed as an Englishman to be defeated like this is such a humiliating way.
Granted, Cook, Collingwood put in very good displays, but the overall fight, grit and determination of the England squad was pathetic.
After the first test we looked like losers and never looked like we would recover.
How much are all these players paid? They are supposedly top class international cricketers who are flown around the world, and they embarrass England in this way. I am sickened, saddened and quite frankly distraught over the whitewash.
Every credit has to go to Australia, to Warne and Mcgrath, they are living legends like Bradman, and have done magnificently.
Complain about this postAggers is absolutely right !!.
Complain about this postEngland, according to most observers, have the talent in the squad. If you therefore accept that view, then the Australian debacle can only be put down to a lack of discipline, application and preparation.
Central contracts have now gone too far, the players appear pampered and distracted, they talked of fight and heart, yet showed neither and revealingly Steve Harmison said he could not wait to go home. Fine pal !!, but don't expect to tour again, strike him from the central contracts list now.
For those of us who have observed English cricket for some years this is an all too familiar story, a bloated County system that rewards mediocre journeymen with large contracts is never going to produce players with the necessary hard edge to take on the Australians.
Why should money from my Test match ticket be distributed to self-interested County chairman to employ players either too old, never likely to be good enough, or simply not qualified, to play for England.
12 Counties, 240 Crickers, 80% of which are English qualified, funnily enough that's how Australia do it!!!.
I've never heard such utter nonsense about Australians being naturally more competative than English people. If you believe that then why go in the first place. Thats what they wnt you to believe. They are competetive sure, but we've proved that they can be beat in the ODI format (all be it the iccct in England a few years ago which set the platform for the ashes win)and in the Test format.(the ashes win)
I agree with everything else though.No wives or families should be on the tour until the first win, (motivation). The next ashes is in England so its not such a problem.
England deserved to draw one match out of the 5 so I think 5 nil is fairly just. Too many book deals, adverts, automatic selections (what was Ashley Giles doing out there? )
We need a new coach, chairman of selectors , (even better, do away with the selection panel completly and let the coach select) captain and wicket keeper.
I think Harmisons had his chips too.
Several players who are supposedly world class need a long look in the mirror.
If you had to pick an England player for that touring party, youd be hard pushed to think about a performance by any individual that merited any special mention
As the Queen is the head of state for Australia I expect the Aussie team to get some honours as a matter of course after the MBE's for all the England players .
Complain about this postAgnew seems to have summed up the major faults in England's team precisely. I would be interested to hear his views on the fitness of the systems that prepare and feed new player to the county and first-class ranks.
As a cricket fan living in North America I do not get to see much of the action but enough of it to comment that England put on a miserable defence of the Ashes... not the performance of a first-rate team at all... and need now to look not just at their preparations for international tours but the selection process too. From here it looks as though the selection committee has blinders on.
Complain about this postMany, many good Posts....34, 37, 127, 283, 296, 365.
Yes a serious Post Mortem is required,.....but the facts need to be right.....Cooley wasn't poached, some fool in the ECB let him go.
However who is going to do the Post Mortem...Both the ECB and the team management are to blame for this abject shambles, but listening to them after loseing the Ashes and tdy after the whitewash, only shows them in total denial of reality and frankly insulting everyones intelligence.....management that is both failing and in denial has to be removed.
One point needs to be recognised. Prior to the involvement of Marsh at the Academy and as a Selector and Cooley as the bowling coach, we were a pretty lousy team, but we improved vastly with their involvement. However haveing lost them both, we have gone backwards at a terrifying rate.
Complain about this postThat fact strongly points to the fact that it is the management at fault, rather than the raw materials. That is the major lesson to be learnt.
The Australians were better in every single department connected with the game.
The England squad's next training kit should include a t-shirt with a different comment from this board on each one. Maybe then when they are doing their 20 minutes preparation, they will remember why they are doing what they are paid so higly to do.
This country LOVES its cricket, don't let this drift. I can bowl leg spin - and frankly I could have done a better job than Giles, despite not having played for a few years.
I appreciate that they tried hard, however, I just didn't see any evidence of the passion, drive and commitment that saw us win last time out. Notable exceptions, Bell and KP - everyone else - no excuses.
Sort it.
Complain about this postAs a nation we seem to be able to psyche ourselves up every so often for a one off beat the rest of the world victory - then we have nothing left for a few years! The performance of the england rugby players in Australia in 2003 seems to be a parallel with the cricketers of 2005. Our sportsmen and women are undoubtedly talented but in 2005 it's like we said "We've done it - now we can sit back for the next few years". The celebrations seemed to go on for too long - Andrew Flintoff still looked vaguely hungover during the current series. I'm not sure that any enquiries are going to do much. From time to time we feel the need to show the world we can do it - and we can - the Australians. for whatever reason, feel the need to do it all the time. There lies the difference.
Complain about this postWhat the England team lacks (and their soccer playing cousins as well) is heart and desire - something the Aussies have in spades.
How different the series might have been if Giles hadn't dropped Ponting in the first test. After that first defeat I wrote that the Aussies had scored a huge psychological blow from which England might not recover. Sadly, I was right.
Grahame Woods
Complain about this postCobourg, Ont. Canada.
I completely agree with Jonathon.
On the top of enduring some of the most spineless performances I have seen from England and spending the following days at work shattered from late nights, to hear that behind the scenes the team were not even bonding together (christmas day lunch for instance) completely baffles me.
How did they expect to create an 'all for one' attitude so important when taking on the aussies in their back yard, if they are not even willing to spend time with each other?
In my opinion, whoever responsible for these decisions are clearly not up to the job of running a colts tour, let alone one designed to retain the ashes.
What a joke.
Complain about this postA few thoughts on the differences between Australian and English cricket.
(1) Mahmood would never get another game for Australia if he showed the lack of awareness/urgency he did when the run out was on.
Complain about this post(2) Someone with Harmison's mental fragility would have been either sorted out or weeded out well before Test level in Australia. No matter what talent he might have, if he was not mentally tough he wouldn't get picked in Australia.
(3) All the Australians will get county contracts if they want. How many England players would get a run in Pura Cup if they wanted to?
(4) I'd wonder about the standard of county cricket. Some fairly modest performers in Australia have really excelled in England.
England have been atrocious in this series, with one good innings of note. The batsmen seemed to have forgotten what their job was, the bowlers were at best trying to copycat the batsmen in failing. A chop and change is not what England needs, this is one series after all, but surely something must be done to motivate and train up this lifeless team.
Complain about this postI completely agree with Jonathon.
On the top of everything else that has gone on, to hear that behind the scenes the team were not even bonding together (christmas day lunch for instance) completely baffles me.
How did they expect to create an 'all for one' attitude so important when taking on the aussies in their back yard, if they are not even willing to spend time with each other?
In my opinion, whoever is responsible for these decisions is clearly not up to the job of running a colts tour, let alone one designed to retain the ashes.
Thanks for the really late nights, tired next days at work and embarising displays.
What a joke.
Complain about this postAs a neutral supported of the Ashes, my impression is that the English team were simply no match man for man against their Aussie counterparts. This was an exceptional Australian side with exceptional players.
Yes England performed well in the last Ashes but let's be honest, it was no whitewash and could have gone either way.
In typical English fashion instead of getting on with it, too much time was spent on past glories parading as national heroes. Unless there is consistency in performance, they have no right to parade as cricketing gods.
Complain about this postI watched the Sky sports boys discuss the topic after we had been beaten 5-0 and i think they hit the key elements. The raw talent amongst the two teams isnt to different, England have some great players, but it is the character. Hussian went on to tell us how the ozzies travel in a mini bus together and each take their turn to drive, where as the English boys our pampered.
Complain about this postI didnt see or hear the interview with Steve Harmison but he sounded a disgrace. He wasnt sad to be leaving, and didnt no what he was going to do to get ready for the West Indies. Im sorry that is a complete joke, he doesnt want to be here he does not have the self motivation i dont want him to be the test team no longer. England need to get back to team unity, talent can only go so far, if uve not got the 'minerals' to actually win in tough conditions then its no good.
The next two years needs to see England give players like Broad, Davies and Rashidd a chance to prove they can be top players.
Fletchers role needs to be looked at, he cant be blaimed for all what went wrong, but to me he seems to have a bit to much power.
Im a very happy Australian now living in Melbourne who was living in England through the 2005 Ashes. More than being vindicated I feel dissapointed your boys did not turn up to play. World Cup aside, this is the most valued sporting trophy for both our countries and deserves to be shown repect-most importantly-by the players involved.
Complain about this postJonathan Agnew has covered the basics of what was a humiliation of English cricket.
Complain about this postIn addition to preparedness, our team, and in particular, the captain, must have (1) a clear understanding of tactics when batting and fielding, (2) the strengths and weaknesses of our opponents (as well as our own) and (3) sound knowledge of local conditions. Until we get "smart" and invest more time and effort in these areas we will never have a consistently successful cricket team.
Over to you, ECB.
I think its an absolute joke the way the "wags" have been on tour through almost the entirety of the tour - i very much doubt in the days of boycott and botham such thing was allowed.
Besides that, England don't become a bad team overnight, i think strauss should have been captain given his success against pakistan - this would have allowed flintoff to concentrate on his all round game.
IMO Flintoff hasnt done his image any good, some of his post match comments seem very hollow and almost deflecting any critiicism from himself or the team.
We really missed Vaughan, not only for his genial captaincy, strong leadership and motivation on the field, but his classy batting and experience of the last tour where he topped 600 runs. The sooner he is back, the better!
Complain about this postI fail to see how the presence of the players' families distracted Team England so much in the build up. I forget whether the families went to India for the whole Champions Trophy but I think it unlikely. In effect England had a whole month with the vast majority of players together. If this does not forge team unity what will.
Complain about this postLet's face it. England were uncompetitive as they choose to overburden the best player by giving him the captaincy, had too many players out of form (despite the Champions Trophy warm up) and were outplayed by a team with fanatical zeal. McGrath, Warne anc Clarke are great bowlers simply because they ask questions when delivering almost every ball. England's bowlers only occasionally asked these questions. Our long term plan must focus on improving the fast bowling resources and asking questions about desire. Mahmood, Anderson, Harmison look like they are going to have only modest records as test players. It is up to them to decide how they are going to improve that to a great record.
You got found out for the pretenders that you are! You won in 2005 when Australia played the worst we had played in 10 years and England played the best it had played in 20 years. Yet we still bowled you out for less than 200 on many an occasion. The current 5 - 0 score line is a true indication of the difference between the two sides. Time to hand back the honours lads.
Good luck in 2009, you will need it.
Complain about this postI dont know how English team are considered so Hi profile???.......even Bangladesh put some effort while they lost to Australia, but people still make fun of Bangladesh.Despite of having best leauge why England cant provide quality players with killer instinct??
Complain about this postAggers. Do you remember the interview you did with flintoff before the first test in Bribane. You commented that he seemed to be more laid back and relaxed than you expected to find him before such a big occaision. He said he'd be out their having a few beers the night before, his usual preparation. Thats why England performed so badly.
Complain about this postThe changes needed are more than the 11 men in the middle and a few of the backroom managers. The game of cricket is suffering from years of social decay back home. Tests from age 7 in schools, no opportunity to learn teamwork in school, the individualising culture of tv and computers. Who plays team games these days? Where could any of them learn to work as a team? What they've been good at in the last 18 months is cheaply found celebrity with gongs for the ego, and the bleary, couldn't care less of the morning after the night before performances on the pitch.
Could I summarise all of the above considerations and advice in the following way?
Your Team needs to look more like our team!
Your game needs to more closely resemble our game!
Simple really.
Complain about this postInadequate preparation is still for me the biggest factor in the outcome of this series, and to be honest, it's not just England: all teams who have visisted Australia in recent years have been caught underprepared going into the first Test of a series. Cricket's governing bodies should ensure that each country is forced to provide touring teams with at least three full first-class matches before a test series, and never mind the one-day schedule. Back to back tests should also be done away with.
Complain about this postI also believe that the English central contract system has mollycoddled players and made them soft. Even allowing for injuries, some of the members of the England squad had played a ridiculously small amount of cricket over the last year. More time on the county scene would also give people chance to work out technical faults without having to rely on appointed coaches all the time. Let's have a return to the old system: if players are becoming jaded, it's up to their county bosses to spot this and rest them.
I'm staggered at the amount of people who post on this place without having the first clue what they're talking about?! Vaughan "hiding in the dressing room" Oh excellent!! - He was Injured?!? Or is that no excuse? And Australia "only lost the ashes" because of "bad umpiring and bad weather"!! Were you watching in 2005? I know we bang on about it but 2005 saw some of the best dominating cricket for years and England were without doubt the better side... Interesting that it was the bad weather which saved australia NOT England!!! Please someone restore sanity to this page and think before posting!!!
Complain about this postI could not watch some of the games, because of the excitement & tension in 2005.
Complain about this postI could noy watch because of embarassment in 2006/7
I couldn't agre with Mr Agnew more. I went to the PErth test match, staying in the same hotel as the team.
I thought it might be best if I diarised the experience of myself and my companion, I can鈥檛 be absolutely sure of all times (the evening ones that is) due to various (occasionally alcoholic) reasons but I hope my point will be clear fairly early on.
Monday 11th December 鈥 c 10pm-T Day minus 3 days 鈥 we鈥檝e been in Aus about 10 hours now; just settling in 鈥 have found our seats at the Bar, along with Messrs Botham, Atherton, Hussein etc; wow, those Sky guys certainly have a tough life! Just re-reading how Arsene Wenger doesn鈥檛 really respect English players because of their drinking culture etc. Oh yes, forgot to mention that Messrs Bell, Jones and assorted others are also keeping us company. Oh well, I suppose they鈥檝e got 3 whole days to recover.
Tuesday 12th December 鈥 c9am 鈥 T Day minus 2 days 鈥 a funny thing happened this morning. Maybe we just had hallucinatory hangovers or something but I could鈥檝e sworn we鈥檝e just seen many of the English players stroll into breakfast with their wives, children, prams, nappies 鈥 what a lovely holiday scene! It鈥檚 just like Germany 2006. And didn鈥檛 we do well there too? And look, instead of sitting with each other, talking, strategising, having a laugh, bonding (God forbid!) the players are all sitting on separate tables with their wives and children, looking pretty glum and not even talking to each other! Ah, that鈥檚 sweet, one of the 342 staff travelling with the players is sitting next to Monty who otherwise, without wife or child, would鈥檝e been sitting on his todd. How thoughtful.
Wednesday 13th December- c9.15am-T Day minus 1 day 鈥 we鈥檝e just had the same hallucinatory experience as yesterday except that KP and Monty seem to have found each other at breakfast. Oh yes and Andrew Strauss can be heard laughing about how little sleep he got last night 鈥榗os his nipper was up half the night! What a 21st century man he is. I mean if I was possibly going to be facing the best cricket bowling attack in the world within 24 hours, I would probably want at least 12 hours completely uninterrupted sleep 鈥 that Strauss bloke must be super-human!
Thursday 14th December 鈥 c9.15am- it鈥檚 Test Match Day 鈥 came down to brekkie 鈥揺xcellent to see that the boys are down the WACA practising 鈥 I mean if I was any one of Strauss, Jones, Cook, Flintoff, Harmison, I鈥檇 have been up and sorting my batting , bowling etc. Afterall, it鈥檚 not as though they don鈥檛 need the practice! Wait a moment, it鈥檚 all happening again; they鈥檙e all rolling into brekkie 鈥 the WAGs, the kids, the prams, the nappies. Well at least they鈥檒l all be sitting together on the morning of the match won鈥檛 they? Oh of course, they can鈥檛 can they 鈥搃f that happened, the WAGs would be all upset and we can鈥檛 have that can we?
Friday 15th December 鈥 c 11.30 PM 鈥 we get back from dinner and guess what? Ian Bell has obviously had a lovely diner somewhere and quite understandably wants to wash it all down with a bottle of that lovely Aussie beer we鈥檝e all been drinking. And his lovely wife has bought a bottle for him. How romantic! We think we can add to this touching scene by generously sending over another bottle saying that whilst he鈥檚 pissing away the Ashes, he might as well have another one on us! But our generosity deserts us at the last minute.
Saturday 16th September 鈥 c 9.15am 鈥 rather than hallucinating this morning, I think I鈥檝e gone back in time. I come down to breakfast to see KP deep in conversation with Michael Vaughan, who is dressed in his English gear. I could鈥檝e sworn Vaughany had been injured for months and had said he had no intention of being anywhere near the Test scene in Aus. And now he鈥檚 actually in the same hotel as all the other guys! Well, he wouldn鈥檛 want to be seen as being an interloper would he? Maybe KP thinks Vaughany鈥檚 experience can be helpful to him? Freddie鈥檚 probably got enough on his plate anyway!
Sunday 17th December 鈥 c9.30am 鈥 the usual scene in the breakfast room. We are queuing for our eggs and sausages next to Michael Atherton. My colleague remarks at what a lovely family scene it all this. Athers says well that鈥檚 what happens at home so he can鈥檛 see what the fuss is all about. Funny that, my colleague remarks, when they鈥檙e playing at home, don鈥檛 they stay in hotels on their own during the Test Matches? Athers stabs a sausage meaningfully and moves away. Lovely to see all cricketers, old and new, sticking together.
Monday 18th December 鈥 c11pm 鈥 we鈥檝e just been out drowning our sorrows after Christmas has come a bit early for England and we鈥檝e been stuffed harder from behind (and in front and indeed sideways) than any turkey could reasonably expect to be. We feel in need of a bit of cheering up. We get back to the hotel to see much merriment going on in the Bar. We figure it鈥檚 those naughty Sky journos again, living it up. But no, it鈥檚 most of the English squad (plus WAGS obviously) laughing and joking. Well I suppose it was only a game of cricket after all. And I鈥檓 sure all those people who鈥檝e spent all that cash coming out to see the games really wouldn鈥檛 mind the guys looking as though they鈥檝e just lost a village match would they? The really funny thing though is that in the middle of this throng of laughter, one player stands out as looking as though he鈥檚 feeling a bit upset. Trust him to spoil the frivolities, that KP. Oh and where鈥檚 Monty? Gone to bed early someone said. Another party pooper.
Complain about this postIN my opinion, if the players in the future insist on touring with their wives and families, then they simply sgouldn't be picked. I'd rather take a group of "second rate" players who at least want to put their all into touring than a group like this.
As a starter for 10, here are a few pertinent questions for the Good Ol' Boys like John Carr at the ECB now that they have announced their Public Whitewash...Sorry Enquiry:
1. Why can the ECB afford to take 45 employees on tour, but not pay to retain the services of Troy Cooley?
2. Who made the decision to give the players down time after our humiliation in the I.C.C Trophy, when clearly we needed practice?
3. Why did the selectors allow Trescothick to pull their trousers down for a 4th time, 8 days before the Ashes?
4. What reassurances had they sought from Trescothick prior to the tour, and why did they think this time would be different?
5. Why was a spinner who cannot spin the ball and has not played for a year selected ahead of "the best finger spinner in the world" (can't remember who said that).
6. Why were both our selected wicketkeepers so useless with the bat?
7. Why were the players rewarded for their astounding mediocrity by being pampered at the ECBs expense by their W.A.Gs throughout the tour?
8. How much time did Kevin Shine spend one to one coaching Harmison?
9. What assessment do the ECB make of the public pronouncements on this tour of Flintoff and Fletcher, and did they at any stage reflect reality?
10. Why is Nasser Hussain sitting in the Sky Studio when we employ so many mediocrities around Team England?
Answers please.
Complain about this postI have a thought. If the MCC doesn't want to let The Ashes out of Lords, fine. Let's just burn a new set of bails, chuck them in an egg cup, write and obituary to English cricket, call them The New Ashes and play for them from now on.
Complain about this posti never shared our red tops blind optimism before the start of this tour. we were lucky in many ways to win the ashes in england (mcgrath's injuries playing a massive part in that victory). as amazing as it was that we won that series, this was always going to be difficult with vaughan & trescothick missing; harmison bowling with the control of a pre pubescent child at the wheels of a 16 tonne juggernaut; freddie taking on more jobs than a Baghdad builder; gerraint jones proving that selectors can, and often do, get things wrong.
mahmood looks like he struggled to cope with the pressure of playing international cricket. too inconsistent, not a good enough batter to take the place of even giles!
monty's introduction was blatantly too late, and i suppose that decision does typify our natural obsession with opting for the safe option rather than giving our wild card a chance to have an influence on the series before it was alll but over.
having said all that, hoggard was excellent, alastair cook, bell and collingwood played well at times but they were no match for the aussies, who played some truly amazing cricket consistently and with a smile on their faces. we looked like we were terrified of failure, and that was ultimately what happened.
i agree with nriapia, easily distracted, we could have done much better.
Complain about this postI saw an interview with DF after the close of play where he was asked if he thought the 5-0 scoreline realisticly reflected the yawning chasm between the two teams. Of course he said no and went on to spout all manner of psuedo-positive spin on the situation concluding with the surmation that England would take a long hard look at themselves after the world cup.
Now I haven't paid much attention to the whole DF slagathon that has permeated the pages of this blog since late November, but I feel it is my duty as an avid cricket supporter to express my wholehearted disbelief at his comments. If 5-0 doesn't represent a yawning chasm then I don't know what does. Do we have to win each test match by an innings and several hundred runs in under 2 days before he will pull his head out of the sand and realise what is happening to English cricket? And if he is going to wait several months before conducting a post mortem I fear the worst for a very talented group of cricketers that are being led haplessly down the garden path.
When we lost the Ashes in 2005 plans were implemented almost immediately, and all those that needed to took responsibilty for a below par performance and made no attempt to hide from the awful truth that we were beaten by a better team.
Sooner or later DF will have to realise this about Englands performance. And for all our sakes I hope it is sooner rather than later, the 2005 series was the best for years, this last one was so one-sided it beggars belief...
Complain about this postAggers is correct. I would however want to passon my gratitude for at last seeing behind the stumps a glove man with wonderful special gifts. Read's performance in the two innings available to him saw him get 12 victimsm, but it was his overall controibution in the field which impressed. Alas his batting, with one exception, shows a flaw outside the off stump to genuine pace which, with disciplie can be resolved. It is not Read's fault he is in the team at number 7. So many replies to Aggers comments beleieve three seamers, a spinner, and making more out of part-time bowlers (Collingwood had one spell all sereiws - why?) is far better than picking a 4th seamer and under using him. Joyce or Dalrymple should have played in Sydney. It was a pity too that Hoggard was missing.. He might have helped when Symonds and Gilcrhist came together. The keeping position may well be up for grabs but I was very pleased at last to see a specialist perform absolutely brilliantlyt. I do hope Read discovers some batting form, if he is picked again, for I would hate to return to the fumblings of Geraint Jones clones.
Complain about this postSteve Harmison is a great bowler and I'm sure he works hard and professionally at his job as much as the next man, but don't you get the feeling he doesn't really love the game of cricket? Unlike say Warne or MgGrath there's no real passion for the game itself in the man and he seems to take any opportunity on offer not to play. Perhaps the England managment need to give him even more of a chance - by not picking him. That way he can go off and play football, the game he plainly really loves, instead to his hearts content. Except, yes, oh dear. He's not very good at that.
Complain about this postMake your mind up time Steve. Love us or leave us. You ccan't keep playing both ends against the middle like this. You get found out.
Jonathan
You touch on what for me is one of the key differences to this England side to 2005, the absence of Troy Cooley, but it's disingenuous to refer to "the 鈥榩oaching鈥 of the bowling coach, Troy Cooley". He wasn't poached, he was hired by the Australians after Fletcher refused to give him the two year contract he asked for. This is yet another instance in the litany of arrogant and ultimately catastrophic errors of decision by the head coach, including but not limited to:
- the metaphorical two fingers shown to the board of selectors in picking Jones and Giles as soon as Graveney and Miller weren't in a position to outvote him
- the unnecessary and ill-advised cosseting of the bowlers, particularly Harmison, but also making Anderson carry drinks for two years rather than play Academy cricket, before asking him to take the new ball at Brisbane
- the selection of Flintoff as captain rather than the more detached and considered Strauss
I appreciate the importance of stability, but whilst I recognise that Fletcher and Nasser did an important and difficult job in transforming the side, at least Nasser knew when his work was done. Fletcher appears to have run out of ideas and is getting increasinlgly eccentric, self-indulgent and arrogant in his decision making, and now would appear to be a very good time to replace him given the number of quality coaches available in the world market.
Complain about this postI can remember many a poor performance by England against Australia. Mike Brealy's tour where Messes Boycott and Fletcher faced off againt Dennis Lilly and Jeff Thomson was definitely among the all time low points as far as I can recall. Perhaps this series has been a case of leading by example.
Complain about this postWithout wanting to rewrite history, and going on and on about "what if's", Adelaide was where the series turned from being potentially competitive to totally one sided. The key was the omission of Monty.
Once we had racked up 551 and declared, we made a good start with the new ball to get the Aussies 65-3 after 22 overs. There was then THAT Ponting catch that was put down two overs later, but that aside the Aussies were able to calmly add 190 runs in the next 60 overs with no real threat from the England bowling attack that was able to find no reverse swing, no swing, and had no spinner. As soon as we took the second new ball after 82 overs, Hoggy got a wicket.
Had Monty been playing, we would have been able to set attacking fields for him and pose a problem or two during those 60 overs. Of course there is no guarantee that any wickets would have fallen, but given his strike rate of just under 54 balls per wicket for the series (incidentally a better S/R than every other bowler except Stuart Clark) it would seem more than likely he'd have taken a couple of wickets.
I reckon with Monty playing at Adelaide the Aussies would have struggled to get 400 in that first innings. With a lead of 150 at the start of our second innings, we would have batted with more confidence, and have scored enough to not lose the test.
Though I have absolutely no doubt England would still have lost the series, a draw in Adelaide - where we would have had the better of the match - would have seen us play with more confidence in the rest of the series.
Complain about this postThat defeat ripped the guts out of the team though, and there was never a hope of us winning a match after that.
Fact is - and it saddens me to say it - that the Aussies have a 'can do' attitude which is simply not part of the British culture.
Complain about this postOur boys adopted a can't do (or rather can't be bothered to do) after the first test. They looked like a bunch of losers from the outset.
Jonathan Agnew says that the MCC needs to carry out a meaningful inquiry and not fudge the issue.
That would be a first.
I agree with Jonathan, particularly about our players being under prepared. I may be wrong but wasn't it the Australians themselves who first got rid of the notion of long tours? I seem to recall Steve Waugh when he was the touring captain over here saying that he couldn't see why they needed to play all of the Counties and should just focus on the tests. Perhaps Australians don't need as much practice as everyone else. Clearly we do. Our winter tours have shown mixed success for a few years now, shouldn't we have identified it as a problem before going out to the toughest of all places?
I still feel confident that we'll be cheering England success in the coming summer though, we are rightly second in the rankings, but evidently by a long way.
One final thought; we say we were short of three key players on this tour. But with Flintoff ineffective with the ball and Flintoff ineffective with the bat; how about five key players short?
Complain about this postGood points sir.
Along the same lines, it might be good to admit that all the harping about Giles and Jones, in the presence of Panesar and Read, was perhaps a really dumb thing.
I am not sure if Fletcher was always a bad coach and the situation was camofalged by the presence of other good personnel around him or if he just became too arrogant about his methods that he stopped listening. Because, England didn't just loose, they never came close to competing.
Help me with one more thing, please. What does MBE mean?
-Arshad A Momin, Detroit USA
Complain about this postIt is time that test cricket and one day crickert were completely divorced from each other. Test batsmen need to learn patience and disipline, while one day cricket encourages them to lash out at virtually every ball.
Scoring at a rate of 5 or 6 an over is much less important than staying in during a test innings. No english batsman showed any ability to simply keep their wicket intact.
Complain about this post:(Hmm, I Listened to Andrew Flintoff's interview and i can not see how he can talk that way!
Is it coz of sponsers? Is it coz hes too imporant he cant do the honorable thing and fall on his sword? Is it the current fasion in the England camp that all failure is denied?
I dont know,
But i do know that
England lost 5-0 It is utter defeat this team is the worst team for almost a century. I want an apology.
Not "ohh the players are really good usally we just didnt perform"...........Err? yeah i watch the series i know that!!!!!
England stinks and untill the team takes responsabilty for its disgrace of a performance ill be hopeing that they continue to lose everything.
ST
Complain about this postOh dear oh dear. It all seems to have gone completely wrong the moment England won the Ashes in 2005. The open top bus ride (booked before victory was confirmed), the MBEs, players pissed in public, believing their own hype, wearing their bling for all to see and assuming celeb status with relish, throwing strops when asked to play abroad. And the ECB cashing in Big Time, selling ALL the TV rights to Sky, selling the soul of English cricket and selling out the fans. The books, biographies and all the merchandise that has been sold to the next generation of England fans. It seems to be a peculiarly English reaction.
The arrogance spread to the whole England setup and the result was a dreadfully underprepared team with players calling the shots, the wrong captain in place, picking his old mates. The Aussies were referred to as "Dad`s Army" due to their ages but it was the England Team that reminded me of Mainwaring, Pike and co. What a hopeless shower!
All credit to a superb Aussie team. We got what we deserved. And I hope Sky viewing figures plummet. I wouldn`t pay to watch such rubbish.
Oh well, I`ve got that out of my system. Happy New Year to everyone and many thanks to the Excellent TMS team.
Complain about this postThere's a number of things to learn from this tour. Preperation, preparation, preperation. Why are we asking Monty Panesar for a 拢200,000 book deal? End this nonsense of celeb culture. We need a big increase in children taking up sporting activities again, not a slight increase. We are fighting a losing battle against political correctness, perfectly encapsulated by school's having 'Non - competitive Sports Days' where no-one loses. The fact is you have to have winners and losers. By denying this, you emit thid aura that it's ok to lose. It's not. In Human nature, winning is everything. That's what it meant to Ricky Ponting, thrashing us good and proper.
The ECB wants to promote cricket yet the team I play for down in Kent and 5 other teams have been omitted from our local village cricket circuit because of dwindling numbers of sides in the 1st division, so the 2nd division teams suffer. ironic isn't it!
I hope 2007 will mark a dramatic shift in attitude to British sport. it's a shame the last test didn't finish in 2006. let's draw a line under the disastrous year we have just had. Like Bumble said on SkySports, the players need to make a vow to win that blinking urn back.
Rant over, but I have a couple more pointers.
1) Read didn't really perform greatly. I'm sure the situation would have been exactly the same had he started instead of Geraint Jones for the 1st 3 tests. Go-Jo would have come in for the final 2 tests and would have had the same. Read can't bat, and Go-Jo had a poor year which under-mined his confidence which the Aussies and in particular Shane Warne had played a part in. So I wasn't surprised to see low scores. Read had 6 catches in one of the innings. were regulation and one was fairly difficult. S you can't argue that it was outstanding. Jones took 5/6 catches in one innings against Pakistan last summer too. Didn't stop him getting dropped. Note read didnt have to face Shoaib and Naved much. Jones did. Both should play a lot of county cricket this year. Let them work on their batting, and who-ever is deemed to be more in form should start against the West Indies.
2. Rob Key is a perfect example of the sort of person we need in the side. Passionate, a good captain, a willing competitor, always giving chat back....it's about time he earned a recall. i want to see him playing against the West Indies.
3. The players need to play a lot more county cricket. Stop this nonsense of wrapping them up in cotton wool. Practice makes perfect does it not?
4. I feel John Bloxham's post was a good one - post 204.
Complain about this postOh dear oh dear. It all seems to have gone completely wrong the moment England won the Ashes in 2005. The open top bus ride (booked before victory was confirmed), the MBEs, players drunk in public, believing their own hype, wearing their bling for all to see and assuming celeb status with relish, throwing strops when asked to play abroad. And the ECB cashing in Big Time, selling ALL the TV rights to Sky, selling the soul of English cricket and selling out the fans. The books, biographies and all the merchandise that has been sold to the next generation of England fans. It seems to be a peculiarly English reaction.
The arrogance spread to the whole England setup and the result was a dreadfully underprepared team with players calling the shots, the wrong captain in place, picking his old mates. The Aussies were referred to as "Dad`s Army" due to their ages but it was the England Team that reminded me of Mainwaring, Pike and co. What a hopeless shower!
All credit to a superb Aussie team. We got what we deserved. And I hope Sky viewing figures plummet. I wouldn`t pay to watch such rubbish.
Oh well, I`ve got that out of my system. Happy New Year to everyone and many thanks to the Excellent TMS team.
Complain about this postMany England cricket followers will recall the fifth day at Adelaide for a long time as one of their worst cricketing disappointments. There should now be a clear out of those responsible for this embarassment. The recent concentration on money, money, money for players and the counties, central contracts, families on tour, columns in newspapers etc etc has recruited administrators with no interest in the game and in particular cricket followers and fans. The current tour is their legacy. Gutless batting, rubbish bowling and schoolboy fielding. It was no contest. Putting test cricket on Sky only was the ECB giving two fingers to the public. It is time for the public to give them the same in return. How long before Sky do the same? Good bye.
Complain about this postI FEEL THAT WE MUST LEARN TO BAT FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME AND MAKE IT HARD TO LOSE WICKETS. Never mind the result we never got in for any length of time. Sadly there were too many collapses. Normally after a good start. We were playing a team that really hurt them losing last time. Give or take the odd player they were the same team and we did not perform. From this our mistakes were punished. Wehave only had one good innings in Adelaide and what did do we declared.
Another fault is not going out with the best players. We set out to draw the first test with the inclusion of an unfit Giles. It is not just getting beaten is how we got blown away.
Lets not whinge all the players know what they have to do work harder than the opposition......
Complain about this postBefore the last Ashes we came up with reverse swing and all the players avoided Injury and worked with a plan to beat Australia. Lets Learn as did Australia and come back fighting and less partying
Richard post 496
"Every credit has to go to Australia, to Warne and Mcgrath, they are living legends like Bradman, and have done magnificently."
I didn't realise they had thawed The Don out. Will he make his comeback in '09?
Complain about this postOne of the defences the England players have put forward for being accompanied by the WAGs is that "we always do that" (though ex-Test players such as Aggers and Sir Geoffrey would disagree).
I wonder - and I am ready to be surprised - did the WAGs accompany them to India and Pakistan last winter?
Complain about this postAndy (Aussie in the USA)
It couldn't be more obvious that players such as Michael Vaughan and Simon Jones were badly injured. I suggest you look into the injuries themselves and u would find out that Vaughan would have been completely useless in the condition he was in.
Personally for your argument I would use Trescothick as a better example. However, that is perhaps unfair as no ones really knows the depth of the situation there.
Complain about this postWhen will Shane Warne be knighted?
it did make me laugh when he summed up his disdain for Collingwoods MBE for achieving a mere 7 runs.
Complain about this postWHAT AN ABSOLUTE SHAMBLES. NO HEART NO PASSION & NO DESIRE. THE 5-0 WAS INEVITABLE CONSIDERING THE SHOCKING DISPLAYS THROUGHOUT THE SERIES. A WINNING TEAM IS ONE THAT PLAYS FOR THE SHIRT TAKES THE BATTLE TO THE OPPOSITION AND ONE THAT SHOWS HEART. UNFORTUNATLY ENGLAND DID NOT DISPALY EITHER ONE OF THESE QUALITIES. WELL DONE AUSTRALIA.
Complain about this postPeople seem to forget that we only just beat Australia last summer. Had Australia won the Edgbaston test, which they almost did, England would have been 2-0 down and would probably have gone on to lose the remaining tests as well. All the hype from last summer must be put to one side - England are simply not as good as the players and public think they are. England can only compete when all the players play to their best, all the time.
Complain about this postIronic that 2 of the batsmen who could have given England some depth and stability - Mark Ramprakash and Mark Butcher - were taking part in TV talent shows whilst this debacle was going on!
Get rid of the current Northern bias in the team - seems you only have to play for Durham to get picked! (Harmsion, Collingwood, Plunkett, Onions etc ).
If Prince Nasseem can lose his MBE for driving offences, on the evidence of this 'car crash' how about removing the farcical gongs that the England team got in 2005 ?
Complain about this postI鈥檝e a feeling the 成人快手 may not appreciate this but has anyone else noticed the parallel between the performance of the England team and the TMS team. Everyone seems to agree that the cricket team were undercooked but the TMS team didn鈥檛 seem to be much better prepared. Individually, with one or two notable exceptions, the boys in the box were poor and, perhaps due to disappointment or desperation, just seemed to be going through the motions.
CMJ and Blowers are getting past their sell by date. At times CMJ seem so befuddled he gave the impression he had just got out of bed and made an effort to get to the game. Dear Old Blowers increasingly sounds like he鈥檚 had a damned good lunch (no matter what the time of day it is) and even his asides about seagulls, buses, kites and cranes (of both varieties) are starting to pall. Add to that the lack of concentration, like a few mistaken identities; 鈥淕reat cover drive by Flintoff鈥 only to be corrected off air (usually by the Bearded Wonder) with 鈥渁ctually that鈥檚 Collingwood鈥. Or the absolute gem of congratulating Langer for a splendid shot 鈥 when England were batting !!
As for Boycs, well we need a grumpy old man in the box but, like the much loved Fred Truman, he is slowly becoming a parody of himself. You either love him or loathe him. If I may, a word of advice Geoff; please stop going on about your prowess on those uncovered pitches. An occasional mention is fine, but not several times a session.
Agers, is styled the 成人快手鈥檚 Cricket Correspondence and, presumably, is paid by the 成人快手 for his services. He still has an engagingly relaxed style and banter with Boycs was very welcome when the action flagged. But I felt cheated hearing him panting as he returned to the box from some other earning opportunity at ABC box (or elsewhere). As Boycs so pointedly observed on one changeover, 鈥渉e had been running all the way from the bank.鈥
Sadly boys, like the cricket, the freshest and most interesting commentary came from the Aussie guests in the box.
Which brings us to the box itself. It never seemed to be adequate. Too hot or too cold, too dry or too humid or too small. At the SCG, it sounded like the answer to a Health and Safety Inspectors prayer. The ostructed view by a large pylon was bad enough, apparently requiring the summariser to sit on the commentators lap to be able to observe proceedings but on the change of contributors, what sounded like limbo dancing under or over the plethora of cables around the place. Did we bid for a better facility, or was that outside the 成人快手 producers budget ?
So, cricket team sloppy, unprofessional and in need of a good shake up (both in terms of personnel and performance). TMS didn鈥檛 fare much better. Formerly a jewel in the 成人快手 crown, it is starting to show its age. At best the performance in Oz was lack lustre and, frankly, gave every appearance of being 鈥渄one on the cheap鈥.
I know that sounds like a disappointed fan lashing out at anything or anybody to hand but perhaps, like Duncan Fletcher, Peter Baxter needs to consider his position.
Complain about this postPhew! No Warne, McGrath, Langer and maybe a few others in 2009. We may win the odd test, and not get whitewashed in 30 months time. There's hope for optimism.
Complain about this postThe dimise of England in this Ashes series is an interesting concept. I think that so many factors have contributed to the eventual 0-5 scoreline.
Firstly hats off to Australia, they have played the best test cricket i have ever seen (although i am too young to remember the all conquering West Indies side of decades past). Stuart Clark has been outstanding, and the transformation of Brett Lee points to the genious of Troy Cooley. England should have offered him virtually anything to stay as our bowling coach.
Of course England are to blame too for their own demise. I think the debacle of the first test pointed to not just a lack of preperation, (although I am not an expert on the subject I assume most test sides these days have little in the way of warm up matches) but of professionalism. Tests 2 and 3 could have easally been won by England lets not forget, indeed i think the series scoreline was harsh on England.
Andrew Strauss should have been captain. Years of experience as skipper of Middlesex, as well as being at the helm for the comprehensive beating of arguably the second best test side in the world - Pakistan, earlier in 2006, should have been enough to ball point a (c) next to his name. Overloading a player who was not even 100% fit was foolish.
Injuries and retirements have disrupted the fabric of England. In recent years a dynasty of England batsmen have retired. Thorpe, Butcher, Hussain, Stewart (who is yet to be replaced in terms of his wicket keeping, and i fully endorse the idea of teaching a swashbuckling young batsman the art of keeping, given the required agility and hand-eye coordination) have all gone, as well as the recent losses of Trescothick, and Vaughan. Simon Jones is arguably englands finest bowler, any side in the world would have been crippled by injury to a player of his stature.
In summery i am not worried about the state of English cricket. I admire our academy system and i think we are only just beginning to reap the benefits from it. Duncan Fletcher has done a fantastic job for us and i am unsure weather a change of coach would be a good idea. It may work for a series or two but Fletcher has changed things for the long haul. Our county cricket system is admired and the introduction of Twenty/Twenty and Pro 40 as well as the future change back to one overseas pro per team are improvements.
Prospects for 2009? Well our batting lineup from 1-4 has or will prove themselves as consistent test performers, that i have no doubt. Cook and Bell are two of the best young batsmen around. Bowlers such as Broad and Tremlet are exciting for the future of England too. I expect a close competition next time round, and maybe more bus tours and 7 run MBEs!
Complain about this posti know we won the ashes in England after losing the first test but each game was extremely close and the Aussies where without Glen McGrath after he trod on a ball during the warm up before the second test .
Complain about this postAnd if you look back over the years England have never really inspired confidence they always seem to collapse , i mean the Windies use to hammer us for years after Tony Grieg's infamous ' we'll make them grovell ' outburst .
I as a spectator of test match cricket since when the Aussies came to England with Lillie and Thompson have never seen an England team play anything like the way this Aussie team play .
That tour with Lillie and Thompson our players just didn't have a clue how to play them and it's been the Same with Shane Warne and Glen McGarth we've had no asnwer to them over the years .
Why do we always repeat the Same mistakes , making Freddie captain , we did it to Botham and looked what happened and poor Alec Stewart , he had to do everyting opening batting keep wicket and captain , does anyone involved in the running of our game have a clue .
And as far as one day cricket goes we have not got a clue .
We did not have our proper captain.
Complain about this postWe would NOT have won in 2005 but for Mcgrath standing on the ball.
They are better than us. More 4-1 than 5-0.
Forget bowling. Take only batsmen and play for 5 draws.
It is only a game.
Win the World Cup then - that would be funny.
Keep going Andrew. 成人快手 soon. I'm sure Rachel and the kids are missing you.
I am going to show my disgust at our performance by not shaving my legs or face for a month. That'll teach them..
Complain about this postthanks aggers, u and geoff have been the only good thing from an english point of view.
Complain about this postWhat distresses me the most are the comments of Davis Collier wht mentions thatDubcan Fletcher makes his own mind up every winters end as to whether he will continue as England coach. I find this strange and wonder how they can Possibly plan for the future. I think boycott is reight that Fletcher must go at the end of the world cup as Erricsson did in another underachieving sport.
Complain about this postThe whole tour was ill feted as England lost several key players after the last Ashes and simply were not good enough in depth to recover. The decision to play Giles ahead of Panesar smacked of desparatiopn to cling on to a team whose natural time had run its course. What does it say to the team if a new player comes in, performs to a high level and is then dropped for a player who has barely played for a year? All this and England, out of form, found themselves up against a top quality team hungry Australian team. There was only one winner and Australia totally desrved the scoreline of 5-0. Good luck to them! England are not a bad team, they need a bit of luck in the form of a fit Micheal Vaughan and possibly a new coach as fantastic as Duncan Flethcer has been, there were dreadful mistakes made on this tour.
Complain about this postWith the form (or lack of it) England have shown in one day cricket, there can be no doubt that the one day series will also be a disaster. Can anyone really see anything else. Then that will be taken forward to the world cup, where, quite frankly, if we manage to get out of the group stage against Canada and Zimbabwe it will have been an achievement.
Complain about this postI certainly don't expect anything from here on in, and i would expect neither do too many others,
Pete
Plymouth
I am amazed at some of the reactions here.It is endemic of British sports fans that there seems to be two extremes ,either World beaters or total no -hopers.There seems to be little perspective as to the real reasons other than total knee jerk reaction.
Complain about this postI have followed English test cricket avidly for nearly 35 years and for those who believe this to be the worse English side ever I would draw to their attention to the Engalnd side of the late eighties and most of the nineties.
For those calling for Duncan Fletchers head ,well remember what he has done for the England side since he took over .Effectively he took us from rock bottom to number two in the world ,has given continuity ,and a system that at least gives our players a modicum of a chance.He got it wrong in this series but he is still way way ahead in the credit column.
Those that moan that we took injured players ...well who would they have replaced them with ? If they had been replaced would the scoreline been any different.
This is a young inexperienced England side .Whatever anyone says they simply could not compete in terms of mental toughness and experience ,Australia had five players with over 100 tests under their belts .Any new players coming into the side had all that experience to fall back on ,unfortunately England ,with the loss of Trescothick and Vaughan their two most experienced and probably best batsmen had no such luxury .
Finally ,I do not think enough credit is given to this Australian side .Their preperation,intensity and skill were unparalleled in modern cricket.Every player put their hand up at some point or other and they can be little doubt that they are a great team.
To lose in such a manner is disappointing ,however I find it difficult to believe that any team in current world cricket would have been able to live with them.
However,I still reserve judgement on their ability to maintain this standard .
They have lost two of the games greats and a very fine opening bat. Whether the likes of Gilchrist,Ponting and Hayden will last the course to 2009 only time will tell.
There is justification for huge disappointment ,but lets temper this with some reality .We all hyped this England side up unrealistically as it happens ,I think that ultimately we were not as good as we thought we were and Australia were a lot better than we thought they would be .
I am amazed at some of the reactions here.It is endemic of British sports fans that there seems to be two extremes ,either World beaters or total no -hopers.There seems to be little perspective as to the real reasons other than total knee jerk reaction.
Complain about this postI have followed English test cricket avidly for nearly 35 years and for those who believe this to be the worse English side ever I would draw to their attention to the Engalnd side of the late eighties and most of the nineties.
For those calling for Duncan Fletchers head ,well remember what he has done for the England side since he took over .Effectively he took us from rock bottom to number two in the world ,has given continuity ,and a system that at least gives our players a modicum of a chance.He got it wrong in this series but he is still way way ahead in the credit column.
Those that moan that we took injured players ...well who would they have replaced them with ? If they had been replaced would the scoreline been any different.
This is a young inexperienced England side .Whatever anyone says they simply could not compete in terms of mental toughness and experience ,Australia had five players with over 100 tests under their belts .Any new players coming into the side had all that experience to fall back on ,unfortunately England ,with the loss of Trescothick and Vaughan their two most experienced and probably best batsmen had no such luxury .
Finally ,I do not think enough credit is given to this Australian side .Their preperation,intensity and skill were unparalleled in modern cricket.Every player put their hand up at some point or other and they can be little doubt that they are a great team.
To lose in such a manner is disappointing ,however I find it difficult to believe that any team in current world cricket would have been able to live with them.
However,I still reserve judgement on their ability to maintain this standard .
They have lost two of the games greats and a very fine opening bat. Whether the likes of Gilchrist,Ponting and Hayden will last the course to 2009 only time will tell.
There is justification for huge disappointment ,but lets temper this with some reality .We all hyped this England side up unrealistically as it happens ,I think that ultimately we were not as good as we thought we were and Australia were a lot better than we thought they would be .
I agree with much of your commentary. Preparation is imperative and none of the players had any meaningful practice out in the middle apart from one-day internationals which not complimentary to the longer version of the game.
The commentators have singled out the batting of the English 'keepers and lower order throughout the series. Quite rightly they should contribute in a meaningful way but to disparage Reed in particular, when he has had no practice time in the middle coming in to the Test series 4/5 ths of the way through it is grossly unfair. He has scored a lot of runs in county cricket and has great hands. He may not be as voluble as other keepers but the bowlers respond better to a man that clings on to the edges they find. Always pick a man with great hands ahead of a man that can do a job and score useful runs but might just let off a batsman early on.
The occasional word of encouragement to the bowlers or to the fielders is fine but the sledging / insults made by players (both sides) is cheating.The remarks should not be personal insults. This is outside of the the Spirit of Cricket.
Finally. let us all acknowledge that we have watched one of the greatest teams to play this wonderful game. Let's work to get more cricket matches played in all the schools in the UK. We are are a nation of professional watchers and not participants.
Complain about this postAustralia were a rock: England were Cheshire cheese.
Complain about this postHOLD ON!
Australia played exceptionally well in every test, taking chances at key moments, this is where England failed. The first 3 tests were close, England had their chances. After losing the ashes, I don't care what people say, the motivation was not be present.
Complain about this postThe test side will bounce back no doubt about it, they are still the second best side in the world.
The problem is the one day squad. Why do we persevere with the bitty players, pick the BEST cricketers, the best batsmen in the country, and the best bowlers. Then we may be able to compete. With due respect to the likes of Mike Yardy and Rikki Clarke, these type of cricketers are just not good enough.
Come on Mr. Fletcher, take notice....
I heard they were out drinking the night before the last day. Is this true because if it is then i am really disappointed.
Complain about this postwell that series was like having teeth pulled eh? seriously lacking in all departments especially the bowling. jimmy anderson has been around long enough now to be a test performer but although he has the ability to swing the ball the consistancey level is seriously lacking.should we have left one of the rookie bowlers at home and taken someone like james kirtley?it's hard to think we won't see warnie weaving his magic again, anyone who loves cricket must feel the same way.no doubt the next time we play them they will have unearthed another gem! oh well perhaps we can get back to playing mortals for a while,i'm sure we'll be able to keep our no2 spot till we cross swords again. holden ute anyone?
Complain about this postIf it will make anyone feel better, the Department for Education and Skills which runs the honours system has a website where you can nominate people for awards. Perhaps they can be e-mailed (honours.TEAM@dfes.gsi.gov.uk) to request that certain people have honours revoked...
Complain about this postHOLD ON!
Australia played exceptionally well in every test, taking chances at key moments, this is where England failed. The first 3 tests were close, England had their chances. After losing the ashes, I don't care what people say, the motivation was not be present.
Complain about this postThe test side will bounce back no doubt about it, they are still the second best side in the world.
The problem is the one day squad. Why do we persevere with the bitty players, pick the BEST cricketers, the best batsmen in the country, and the best bowlers. Then we may be able to compete. With due respect to the likes of Mike Yardy and Rikki Clarke, these type of cricketers are just not good enough.
Come on Mr. Fletcher, take notice....
Not since King Ethelred has any English team been so ill or under prepared. Having watched this series since the beginning of the third test at Perth live, the team were not fit or motivated a complete disgrace to our system the worst factor being the complacency of the Management who should be completely REPLACED immediately.
Complain about this postFletcher said the team came close at times-close is 2-1 or 3-2 not 5-0. The aussies were just too good and determined and until players and managment have the same ethic we will lose again. Will the review turn into action I wont bet on it as the coach and managment have started the excuses already.
Complain about this postCould someone please explain another management decision that I at least found strange. At the beginning of the series Monty was not considered a good enough batsman to even get in the side. However, by the time of the fifth test he is considered competent enough to act as night watchman (I recognise Hoggy was not playing).
Complain about this postAggers, you are spot-on with your comments about reminding the players that being on tour is a job. My previous comment postings almost all deal with the lack of team and self discipline. It was clear from the very start to a fellow sitting in a basement in Camden Town, London, (me), looking forward every evening to the start of the TMS commentary and trying to stay awake as long as possible, and probably to thousands like me, that the players were not approaching this series in the right way. Wives and girlfriends around, loads of photo opportunities, blog-writing,newspaper articles, sponsors meetings, fizzy drink promotion, Kylie Minogue concerts - you name it, our players were into everything except cricket. Now if I can see from 12,000 miles away that the players were not managed well from the start of the tour - how come nobody in the England camp who was actually there stood up and said 'right men, we have to change everything otherwise we will be humiliated'??? They just carried on with their winter holiday that was interrupted every so often with losing to Australia. Why didnt they send the wives and girlfriends home when they were 1-nil down? Why didn't the management team dictate the rules of engangement? Player power rules - grab as much cash as possible, win or lose, buy a house in Dubai, and have a lovely life at the expense of the poor buggers who pay to watch them.
We need to get back to basics - and that means TEAM AND PERSONAL DISCIPLINE, first and foremost. The England camp (a few players excluded) should now be exposed as the bunch of free-loading wannabee celbreties they are. KP- hang your nuts in shame, you self-promoting mediocrity!
Complain about this postAggers, you鈥檙e on the right lines but let鈥檚 hope this review isn鈥檛 limited to the immediate team and management, although heaven alone knows they have some explaining to do. Perhaps there is also a need to look at the role of the two Davids and John Carr in this sad affair.
It seems to me that after previous beatings in Australia we鈥檝e had similar inquests with questions raised, for instance, on the level of preparation, the number of matches between before and between tests, selection policy - particularly picking injured players and players out of form when the test schedule made it impossible for them to regain any kind of match preparedness. Yet once again we settle for a crazy schedule, pick players recovering from serious injury and out of form - Harmison hasn鈥檛 been on form for a couple of years, etc. So, either previous lessons haven鈥檛 been properly learnt or too quickly forgotten.
Factors the review should consider:
Why were England near paralysed with fear before Brisbane;
Why did Harmison wait until Adelaide before doing something about his state of match preparation - what was he supposed to be doing in India;
What are players on tour doing to correct failures in techniques - there seemed minimal improvement from one match to another;
Are England players actually playing enough match cricket to develop their skills - between 1957 and 1962, FST bowled somewhere between 850 and 1200 overs a year, Harmison, for example, would be pushed to get near the lower figure over 3 years. Consequently, he has little understanding of his action, or what he needs to do to put it righ
Complain about this postWhat appears not to be fully appreciated is that we have witnessed a national humiliation of a type and intensity I have never known before: I was too young to recall Suez!
Complain about this postECB plc have cocked up on a scale which in commercial terms would force their shareholders and funders immediately to sack their ceo and others responsible for this debacle. Do not blame the players because they were doing what they were told. I want to see Morgan's resignatiion in tomorrow's papers closely followed by Graveney: he's had his day ,and he must resign. Fletcher, I hope, will do the honourable thing and agree now to step down after the world cup.
Regrettably, there appears to be no honour these days, and I fear these failures will cling to their positions of power rather than put English and Welsh cricket first not to mention our national pride. Whatever you, Aggers, and your other media colleagues can do to bring these issues to a head will be much appreciated by all who follow and love our cricket.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE ECB appoint Bob Woolmer as coach!! he should have been England coach long ago.
Complain about this postHow can it all go so wrong so quickly? The management of English Cricket is desperately poor, the decision to put cricket on pay tv confirmed that 2 yeas ago. After winning the ashes my 6 yr old son was cricket mad, at school & at home in the garden...I don't think he even realised England have been playing in Australia this time. Mind you after this performance I bet SKY are not too pleased with their investment!!
Complain about this postHear! Hear! to Jonathan Agnew.
These players are in a well-paid job, and quite frankly if they do not perform as reasonably required, then they should expect a pay cut, as would happen in any other job out here in the real world!
Complain about this postSome of your correspondents have complained about the players' wives being on tour. Pity the boys didn't look after their childern and let the wives play the cricket.
Complain about this postCome on Aggers! I expext more from an ex player, than typical tabloid comments.
Yes it is disappointing to lose 5 - 0 , but let's not forget that no other side in the world has beaten Australia in a test since 2005! England are still no.2.
We were lucky to win in 2005 - decisions and injuries went for us then but against us this time. It is not good for teams to make remarks like this (sour grapes / excuses) but they made all the difference in 2005 , although a smaller difference this time.
I was not impressed with Flintoff's captaincy - he reminded me , in some of his post match interviews of Boycott and Botham (neither of them successful captains), and he was obviously struggling with fitness.
I am confused by your comments about pandering to the PCA. Surely you want the best team on the field at all times wherever possible.
I do not believe that England have become a hopeless team overnight. I understand that we have played 4 more tests than Australia in 2006, and it is difficult to see how our players can fail to be more worn out than theirs.
With regards to the tour schedule and warm up games - this cannot be blamed on the team , management or selection, but has always been a problem, with players , teams and public's needs different.
Complain about this postFor me the failings of the English team are summed up by the fact that Flintoff constantly refers to 'the lads'.
Complain about this postI suspect that the Aussies are 'men'.
Congratulations to them.
Lots of problems to solve and it,s not going to be quick fix
Complain about this postYes th preparation has been very slack by England
No more meetings to assess what went wrong. Just start again New Coach (Bucanan) and let him run things - New committee Boycs,Botham Warne , Law , Tyson - purely for cricket basics not G&T,s round the campfire but to prepare properly a decent team AND instill a TEAM spirit and backbone.
This was very very poor showing indeed
Half fit half prepared the current lot wouldn,t get into a club side.
Now i,ll have to take some stick as a pom in OZ
Can we bottle up and sell whatever it is that makes Monty tick? He's worked hard at the weak areas of his game and is showing a commitment and dedication that some of the established players haven't. bring back that level of desire and commitment and even the lads who've not played to their potential could give any team a run for their money!
Complain about this postno one can blame flintoff i can say that much
its down to everyone not just the captain...
unfortunately australia's big stars who didn't perform last series have stood up to be counted for... despite what people will tell you, pietersen, strauss, cook and several others havent stood up for england.
its a shame, but that's cricket you can't afford to be slow of the mark in australia, they will punish you.
Complain about this postrg
I don't always agree with everything Spiro says but on this occasion I think he has summed it up perfectly. As for discipline, you have no chance with Fearless Freddie as captain, a nice man but far to immature. Being on the world stage just gives him a chance to display his collection of grubby little tattoos, hardly befitting or appropriate of someone in his position. Bearing in mind England's one day ability, if we supporters feel low now then be prepared for much worse aftre the World Cup. I'm pleased that the players will still receive their handsome salaries though!!!
Complain about this postHow do we feel about this debacle? A little Churchillian paraphrasing is in order. "Never in the field of Ashes conflict has so many been embarrassed, in so little time, by so few...."
Complain about this postMy sympathies to England- I too though a W.I. fan, would have liked to see Aussies defeated. But, alas, they are very good!
Complain about this postI agree with one of the comments made on here earlier, get the players off the central contracts, with the players on central contracts they become to relaxed, they`re in the comfort zone, plus england should have had more warm up games on tour, and games against the state sides would have been more meaningful to the players who havent played in the tests, it would also meant the management could have kept the whole squad happy.
Complain about this postGiven that thousands of England fans wasted thousands of pounds each to go to Australia to witness this over-hyped team, I think they should all be offered an equivalent free day at the next Ashes series for each ticket they bought for the Oz tests.
Complain about this postI agree with all the above. I would like to comment on some of the things said by various correspondents in the past few weeks. The obsession with batting down to the tail is all very well but if the top order is blown away, why should the tail howevere competent fare any better. Surely we need aour best batsmen, our best bowlers and our best keeper. If we can bowl sides out twice then we are in with a chance. We shouldn't sacrifice players like Read or Panesar simply because they can't bat well. And yes, the bowlers need to bowl. I don't think centarl contrcats have helped at all. lok at the injury list. As recently as Caddick, bowlers who bowled a lot of overs stayed fit and performed at the top level. Mahmood never had a chance underbowled as he was, and Harmison's efforts on tour (excepting West Indies) have been mostly laughable.
Complain about this postLook Mate, England is a very talented and professionally maintained side. But I don't think the can better their performance simply because, they have forgotten the basics.
In 2005, England entered the Ashes series on back of a 3-0 win over WI (both home and away), 3-0 against NZ, 2-1 against SA and 2-0 against Bangladesh. They had conquered all and sundry.
But after winning 2005 Ashes, the English became to arrogant they treated their tours to Pakistan and India with disdain , with people not wanting to tour, unquestionable excused. They also sleepwalked thru Summer of 2006 like zombies and ignored the good performers during this time.
Basically England entered the Ashes 2006 on back of an indifferent season and with players from past.
Saying Aussies were very determined is the lamest excuse I have heard in past 6 weeks. This is international cricket, nobody likes to lose and those who do, come back harder the next time. Aussies will expect England to come hard at them in 2009 and prepare accordingly. Did England expect Aussies to play dead?
I would like to conclude by saying these bosses in ECB are trying to come out with fancy goals like "Win 2009 Ashes", they would be better off trying to set short term goals like "win the next series" first. This blind arrogance of "nothing matters but Ashes" has got them in this position in first place.
Complain about this postLet's get this in perspective.
England won 2-1 in 2005. McGrath played in neither of the Australian defeats.
At some point during all 5 of the 2005 tests, England could have been beaten.
The benefit of the doubt on the umpiring decisions has gone to the home side in both 2005 and 2006/07.
The England bowlers didn't find the conditions that allowed them to reverse swing the ball.
The Kookaburra doesn't reverse swing as much anyway.
The chief exploiter of reverse swing - Simon Jones - was missing from the England line up.
Australia were fantastic and totally committed to making amends for the 2005 abberation.
Let's face it, we were fortunate to beat the Aussies in 2005. Let's hope that luck is on our side in 2009 because we'll need it. Australia have plenty of understudies ready to fill any gaps emerging from the retirement of Langer and McGrath, if not Warne.
Complain about this postFirst of all, I'm an Australian living in England for the last 9 years. I like it here and I love Australia. I want Australia to win everything they enter, I hate us to lose;BUT if my memory serves me well, back in the early seventies we beat the West Indies 5 nil. I think the great Clive lloyd was Captain. They were so upset and angry with the thrashing they were given they went back home and looked at what happened and built one of the best teams ever. They dominated world for 10 years or more after that.England can do the same. World Cricket needs a strong England. I hope they do.having said that I still want Australia to win and will be upset if they don't. My seven year old twins however born in Reading want England to win as they are English, they keep telling me.
Complain about this postDespite the results, this is not a 'bad' England side. We have some quality players in our team but we happened to be playing the best team in the world - a bit like the situation when England were 'blackwashed' twice by the West Indies in the mid-80s.
That's not to say that this series was highly embarrassing - it bloody well was. But hopefully we can learn from this. Three things in particular:
1) Better preparation at the start of the tour. England need at least three first-class games (preferably of four days rather than three) against quality opposition before the first Test.
2) Selection should be on merit rather than favouritism or past achievements (why on Earth were Jones and Giles picked over Read and Panesar?).
3) The only geniune all-rounder should never, ever be additionally burdened with the captaincy - something that should've been figured out years ago; it didn't work for Botham, and it hasn't worked for Flintoff. Don't we learn anything?
And here's a reason to be cheerful - with Warne and McGrath retiring, Australia will never be as good (or rather, as great) as they have been in 2006/07.
So where now? Forget the World Cup, we will beat Canada and Kenya but no-one else. It's the summer Test series against the Windies and India we should look forward to - two series that we should, by rights, win.
Starting with the batting. Given that Trescothick and Vaughan will return, those two more or less select themselves. If this is the case, Strauss has problems as he had a much poorer tour than Cook. Bell and Pietersen are 'givens', while I think that Robert Key and Owais Shah both merit another chance at Test level. So that's those two plus Collingwood fighting for the other batting place; I back either Key or Shah.
Flintoff should be moved down to 7, with another batsman in at 6. The downside is that this will weaken our bowling attack (should we play a specialist spinner - Panesar being the only viable option here - that would leave us with two pace men not inlcuding Freddie) but it's either that or a ridiculously long tale.
Pace men? Freddie aside, and assuming the above and therefore only two more places - it has to be Hoggard and Harmison. Of the others, Plunkett deserves more of a chance than he's been given, while I'm not so sure about how Anderson and Mahmoud used their chances.
Behind the stumps: Read ... for now. We would do well to blood young Davies (Worcs) at some stage over 2007 though.
Captain? No question here - Michael Vaughan. Strauss as second choice.
My selection for the summer Tests:
Complain about this postOption A (if Vaughan is match fit): Trescothick, Strauss/Cook, Vaughan(c), Pietersen, Bell, Key/Shah, Flintoff, Read(w), Hoggard, Harmison, Panesar
Option B (without Vaughan): Trescothick, Strauss(c), Bell, Pietersen, Key/Shah, Cook, Flintoff, Read(w), Hoggard, Harmison, Panesar
Not one single player in the England team is good enough to play for the Australian team; that is why we lost; they are way better than us, man for man.
Complain about this postIt is not the defeat that hurts me the most but the manner of the defeat. In the space of around 18 months we have witnessed the dessimation of English rugby, the usual lack of flair and results from our footballers and now this. Let's be brutally honest here, we never even looked like scratching out a draw seeing as we could hardly manage to last more than four days before rolling over.
Complain about this postI think it is high time we got rid of the old blazer brigade at the top of our mainstream sports because it is my belief they are stuck in a time warp....like around 1912. It.s time to enter the 21st century in the sporting world if we want to compete,(cos we pretty much missed the 20th century)and admit that just because we invented a game or made the rules does NOT mean that by default we can be any good at it just because we say so.
I think we should remove the media spotlight from our sporting flops and shine it instead on those sports men and women who actually deserve it. Maybe these overpaid and under achieving competitors might just get their act together. But the one question I really ask myself is this; Do we really want success or are we as a nation happy with this attitude of; "well we knew we'd never win anyway". It sucks, it really does.
So, if any of the afore mentioned over rated under achieving sports people happen upon this, do me and the rest of the country a favour. If you haven't got the stomach or the passion to represent your country........bugger off and make way for those who do. Because I for one hate loosing and it hurts, it really does. Unfortunately, thanks to our mainstream sportsman, I've been hurting for most of my life.
What's all the fuss about being beaten 5 - nil. If the umpiring decisions were better in 2005, England would not have won the Ashes then. England were over-rated, and this scoreline was expected. If you follow the game of cricket.
Complain about this postWhy did England give their most spirited performance in the Aussies second innings?Even Justin Langer commented that Harmy had just bowled better than at any time in the series,the fielding was much slicker,and the returns to Read were thumping into his gloves.THE SHACKLES WERE OFF,no pre-plans,ignoring a poor captain,just a bunch of talented cricketers showing what could have been.no we were never going to retain the Ashes but at least we would have shown some fighting spirit.
Complain about this postSomeone have started talking about the prospect of ODI tournament .Well i don鈥檛 think this English team is good in ODI either.
Complain about this postEveryone knows that England are better test players that ODI. So how can we think they will do well in the ODI and even in world cup?
Think back the humiliation they received by Sri Lanka in ODI's - 5-0
Think this is a white was year for England cricket team.
I think that we are not a bunch of cricketing losers as some people have commented. Yes we played badly but you have to remember that this Australian side are the best side in the world (maybe in the history of recent cricket).
Look at the age of the Australian side which is nearly 33. If the England side that won the Ashes (remember all the adsentees for injury and the like) are still playing when there are all 32-33 then I beleive that they could well be the best side in the world at that time. We must be careful not to want to much to quick. Think of who we have to come back, that will be able to play in 3 years time - Simon Jones, Marcus Treskothick?, Ashley Giles (he can bat!) and above all the Captain that won us the Ashes Michael Vaughan.
There are two problems for me at the moment. One is the captain. He is a fantastic player and a great guy but he has one thing letting him down as a captain, he is not a batsmen. To bowl and cpatian a side is very difficult. Most captains around the word are batsmen.
The second problem is the lack of a tail. Austrailias tail always wags getting sometimes well over 100 runs. Once we are 5 down we usually loose the next 5 wickets with 50 runs. These are valauble runs that we cannot afford to loose.
Bring on the next Ashes is what I say. We will have a better side than they will (probably) and I believe when can regain the Ashes. We cannot change this whitewash but we can make sure that we will the next Ashes series. Be positive!
Complain about this postThe single biggest reason for England's awful performance was the bowling. Harmison, Mahmood and Anderson have dodgy radar and Anderson has played practically no cricket in 2006. They lacked the accuracy to build any pressure on the Aussies. Flintoff frankly did the best he could with the ball given his fitness and lack of cricket. Giles was never going to do anything. Sure the batting was poor but it all stemmed from letting the Aussies get too many runs each time. I can't wait to see the Aussies without Warne and McGrath.
Complain about this postWhy do we have a knack in complaining the coaches rather than the players?
Complain about this postCoaches can only guide but players have to perform. If a batsmen gets out by playing a rash shot or a bowler bowls waywardly and if a fielder spilt a catch what can a coach can do?
These players are professionals who are selected for their abilities and they are the best personals in the country to do the job and not schoolboy cricketers to say how to do things.
The blame should mostly [I think 90%] should go to the players who did not perform.
To me the list 鈥 Flintoff, Cook, Strauss, Harmisson , Jones , Mamood
Post 546.
Tks for the info....says it all.
They are going to be in for a shock when they get back to the UK, as once this info spreads they will be held in the contempt they deserve.
Complain about this postFair play Australia. Totally deserved. Enjoy it and celebrate as you should for knocking the **** out of us. I'm a patriotic Englishman who really hopes the ECB as well as the press/public who glorified our celebrity players (don't let cricket turn into football for christ's sake) learn from this, and that the the team is given the the time and preparation to come back and shove it back down the Aussie throats next time round.
Complain about this postI think the events described in Stephen Rodney's post (number 546) - if accurate - pretty much sum up everything thats wrong with the attitude of England players in general, be they cricketers, footballers or otherwise.
Couple that with the incompetence of the management and selectors and all we ever really had, was a snowball's chance in Hell...
I think this upsets me more than anything else. Until now I'd been happy to believe that the lack of preparation, injuries etc. had been the key factors in our pitiful showing.
If these sort of scenes really did occur in the team's hotel, then it just shows England's cricketers have joined our footballers in becoming pampered prima donnas who care more about having a good time than winning matches...
Complain about this postSpot in, Jonathan.
One. Duncan Fletcher has done a wonderful job in the past few years, restoring English pride after years of under-achievement and until this tour produced a competitive team. However, even the best coaches get stale and the relationship with the players has become too familiar. This is typified by the favouring of Jones and Giles, and Jones being brought into the tour inter sanctum. Bob Woolmer is the obvious successor.
Two. We play too much meaningless international one day cricket. The ECB needs to stand up to the ICC and refuse to allow the English team to participate in mini series. Had England been allowed an extra fortnight in Australia with some compeitive matches against State teams they would have been better prepared.
Three. Pie in the sky, I know, but the long term solution within the English game is to re-organise English domestic "first class" (ho-ho!) cricket to make every match competitive like the Sheffield Shield. There need to be fewer first class matches with more at stake, to be played between tests to alllow the England contracted players to play. The public might even attend!
Sadly we know that the ECB will duck these issues, and the counties like turkeys will never vote for Christmas. Instead they will go on relying on ECB Test match generated handouts to keep themselves afloat, and the system will continue to turn out mentally "soft" players.
Complain about this postI strongly feel for all the genuine English fans and hey, I am not English but still I felt bad. It's not that Aussies are a good team, but, honestly, speaking they are not a role model. Shane Warne has taken 700 something wickets, but, his off field behaviour is one of the reckless ever displayed. Ponting might be a great batsman, but, his off field behaviour is well known. Glenn McGrath is well known for his sledging. So, their aim is to win at any cost. England on the other hand played like gentleman every time and even if they lose it, their is certain aura about it. No one can deny this. Well, the best way to take this Aussie bull is to give them taste of their own medicine.
Few Years back, Harbhajan Singh was unplayable in 2001 series and Ponting hardly managed double figures in any of the innings. I respect Shane as great bowler, but, one mediaperson asked Tendulkar, what do you think about Shane Warne as threat.
He replied " Warne, who ?" and Shane Warne himself said "I see Sachin Tendulkar smashing me all over the park in dreams". So, I want England, hey, play like a tiger, victory or defeat are two sides of coin. And just work really hard towards your goals and as relentessly like Mcgrath bowling six bowls on off stump.
Good Luck for 2009 I hope you make it to Semi Finals in World Cup.. and hey, play for Pride, man. Never ever lose your pride.
Complain about this postLooking at the majority of the Englands' players performances, they were lucky to get away with a 5-0 drubbing.
Across the board management changes are required. A management that can look to the future in preference to the past.
Complain about this postiIt would be most unfair to drop Chris Read who has kept wicket superbly. If simon Jones regains fitness and form, and Vaughn comes back into the fray, I would suggest playing six batsmen and four bowlers with Flintoff at seven, Rwead at eight and Jones, Panesar and Hoggard of Harmison completing the picture. jones, Panasar and Hamrison can all bat a bit. On seamers paradises, Panesar could give way to Hoggard and Bell, collingwood, Vaughn and Pieterson shoul all be encourage to bowld more. a team of Strauss, cook, Vaughn, Piterson, Bell, Collingwood, flintoof, Read, Jones, Harmison, Panesar looksa lot stronger than what we put out in this series.
Complain about this postso many views on what went wrong, but the harsh truth is that they have got it right, from test cricket all the way down to grass roots cricket .They have a system that every kid who plays the game will get seen three times before they are 15 years of age so any child with ability does not get missed. What do we have, no cricket in schools of any note unless you go to private school. coaches courses that are too long winded because you have to know the ins and outs of the child protection act (because of political correctness gone mad) rather than spending time teaching the correct way a child should hold a bat or bowl a ball straight. plus if that is not bad enough we run the course at weekends when any decent player is playing! so we end up with what i call non cricketers doing the courses, sorry but poor cricketers make poor coaches there is the odd exception but very rare. so my point being our wonderful TCCB have sold all live cricket to sky for the money which they said would help fund grass roots cricket which is run by non cricketing coaches. good move! they would have been better taking less money and letting every child in the country poor and rich have the opportunity to watch live cricket on terrestial tv and see how its played properly. dont think for one minute because they have had four great players retire we will win the ashes back next time. they have got plenty of good young players coming through because they have got it right at the bottom so they succeed at the top ask your self have we ?
Complain about this postOk, you lost five nil to a better team.
Enough wailing and dissecting the corpse, all this righteous indignation and whinging.
For the good of cricket just STOP IT, put it to rest.
Change the English way of life: eliteist-driven, with "The Firm" at it's head, the tabloids creating sportsmen who are legends in their own tea break, etc. and you have got a start.
Soccer, cricket, tennis, in England it's all the same......much hype and promise.
Get a life, England!
Never once have I heard and Englishman comment or understand what the term "mongrel heart" means when explaining the Australian character.
Mike King
Australia.
Complain about this postThe series was lost before they played a match, just as the England football team did, the selectors/Fletcher stuck their heads in the sand and picked the wrong team. Just with Panesar as a lone example Fletcher should resign and if he goes we should at least see Jones go with him.
Complain about this postThe real problem you overlook Aggers is the issue of central contracts. The system is clearly not working because players are not getting enough first class cricket and it is too easy for them to earn a lot of dosh doing not very much. In addition there is not enough pressure from players outside the contracted few - the ECB have paid their money and want those players in the team. So those on central contracts often don't feel their place under threat.
Complain about this postThe system also gives far too much power to Fletcher, who can take players away from counties at the drop of a hat. This was revealed in all of its glorious stupidity at my county in the late summer when Harmison was prevented from playing in tough end of season matches to keep him fresh. What he needed of course was as much four day cricket as possible. Just as bad was the selection of Graham Onions for England to sit around and do nothing for a week when he should have been playing in a vital match against Hampshire, led by one S.Warne! Plunkett has similarly suffered from a lack of cricket because of England's system.
So tear up central contracts asap and get our cricketers off their arses and playing - it is the only way to improve. I thought 4 day cricket and two divisions were supposed to help England. How can they when most of the buggers never set foot on a county pitch.
Flintoff post match quote: -
"We've got to regroup. Australia have come back better and stronger, almost raised the bar."
I like the use of 'almost'. Andrew they redefined it's position and possibly even the universe it resides in.
Fletcher post match quote: -
"From my point of view, the selection process is fine. It's been successful."
Really? Interesting to know that a selection process that ensures the team travel with sick, injured, homesick and not match-fit players occupying the majority of the pivotal positions (captain, opening bat, opening strike bowler to name but 3) is a 'fine' process. I wonder if the Australians (or for that matter any other test playing team would subscribe to this?
Nice to see Fletch isn't about to carry any blame. The system is fine it's the players fault that things went wrong after they were given the opportunity. I don't think I'm alone in calling this absolute tosh.
Complain about this postFred Truman summed it up succinctly " The only way to get fit for cricket is to play cricket! " and Fred used to bowl 1,000 overs per season! Compare that with Harmisons overs this year.
Complain about this postBeing a New Zealander I have been absorbed by the Ashes series and have been an avid follower of Agnews collumn on this site and it is with some dismay that I contuinually read negative comments about the English team.
I believe the english team was a good team, not the greatest team to leave the UK but they were up against the most complete cricketing team I have had the privelege to watch.
Rather than bag the English team, or the selectors, or the umpires, congratulate the Aussies on such a complete and ruthless performance that any team in the cricketing world would have gone down to. The Aussies were completely awesome.
Complain about this postAustralia were the better team and deserved to win, full stop.
However, I think this England side is very good indeed and their capitulation, lack of backbone, whatever you want to call it stemmed from 2 crucial situations. One, the absurd loss in Adelaide (I still can't believe it) and the collapse in the first innings at Perth. After that, England just couldn't take the slightest hint of pressure.
I believe that the exact same thing would have happened (possibly not 5 - 0 but a good beating nonetheless) if Brett Lee and Michael Kasprowicz had got over the line at Edgbaston last year.
The conclusion... momentum is everything. Yes, this Australian team is superb but this England side isn't awful and who knows what the final result would have been if England had stolen victory at Adelaide.
Yes, there were dumb decisions taken (Flintoff as captain, not playing Monty etc) but, end of the day, Australia were the better team and deserved to win. We all have very short memories. If Engalnd beat India in the summer we will be lauding them again... just watch!
Complain about this postI may have missed it but at any point in the post match interviews did Flintoff, Fletcher or anyone else directly responsible for the 0-5 drubbing apologise in any way to the fans. Many didn't even get to see a full 5 days play in the last two games much less having to watch such a dispirited performance. Maybe the team were in too much of a hurry to get back to the hotel bar with their WAGs to celebrate a swift and efficient diaper changing?
Complain about this postAggers, Enjoyed your stints on ABC radio. I am not au fait with the workings of the English cricket sytem but I was gobsmacked when I heard that under the current system Michael Vaughan (think it was) does not play county cricket! i.e. he either plays for England or for no one! How does he keep his skills up? In the backyard with his kids? Is that why the families including children came on tour with the English team? No seriously, the Aussies stopped that years ago! PS Aggers ,how do you tolerate working with Kerry "Skull" O'Keefe? Should be Saint Jonathan.
Complain about this postI can't remember ever sitting down and reading so many well argued points on any subject, let alone the minor matter of who wins a game of cricket!
Well irrespective of the recriminations amongst England supporters, or whether there needs to be change in county cricket, at the ECB, schools, clubs or wherever, the one thing that strikes me is the totally different attitude towards sport and competition, when travelling between Australia and England.
Complain about this postPhil in blog 521 - you touched upon the subject of mistaking arrogance for determination and grit. Like you, I have lived here for over 20 years and I strongly identify with the fighting qualities and mentality that drives people in general life, and particularly in sport.
There is great camaraderie in australia, support throughout the country both in adversity, bush fires, floods, cyclones etc and that fighting quality is engendered into sport at all levels.
I feel "born again" living here, Anzac stories, the level of voluntary support in WW2, Vietnam (regardless of whether it was wrong or right) the list is endless. There is great pride in being an aussie, a great will to win, to beat the odds, and always to beat the mother country! - sometimes that part gets forgotten, but please believe me when I say that Australia beating England ranks incredibly high in life's priorities from the Prime Minister Downwards!
I personally believe that England could have sent their best X1 of all time, all fit and healthy and well prepared, and they would still have lost this series. Maybe not 5-0, the point being that talent is only part of the story, there were X1 English cricketers against a whole nation and the "Barmy Army" may have been loud, tuneful, amusing or simply a distraction, and wouldn't have been allowed in if the Aussie public had their way when tickets went on sale...but they were never gonna save the team from the carnage of a rabid sporting nation's desire for "Pommy Blood".
Complain about this postPerhaps England are not as good a team as you think (wish/hope) they are and simply got undone by a superior unit when it upped its game.
Jonathan, isn't it about time that David Collier (CEO) and David Morgan (Chairman) of the ECB, stopped using phrases like "wide ranging and comprehensive review." These two are responsible for the debacle in OZ because our present incredibly mediocre domestic system will NEVER really be able to produce players to consistently compete at the highest level.
Complain about this postTherefore they must GO as they continually support this outdated system and carry out the counties self delusional views of importance. The whole country should rise up and RID ourselves of these people if we are truly to become a world class country. They are the two people that are keeping the game in the dark ages. In any other businesses their heads would roll, but no doubt they will use every excuse in the world to blame others. Lets get rid of these two and get some people with vision and commitment for the whole game not just the greedy few.
It was inevitable really! We hsat back and watched it happen to the rugby team after the world cup triumph and once again it takes a big defeat before the so called stars realise they have to up their game or they wont be there next time.
Complain about this postthe trouble with the current team is we havent a player who can bat 4 + sessions
we seem to want to dominate/attack all the time, theres times in a test you have to defend.
....and ive read flintoff at 6 is wrong....i must agree....we only do this because worry over his fitness and there needs to be a 3rd seemer.
...and wheres the next alec stewart ?
Complain about this postI agree with pretty much every thing Jonathan says about how we must learn from this defeat. However, the problem with English sport not just cricket is that we never learn from any success we do achieve. We lost this series the day the team spent the whole day touring London on an open top bus. Did anyone at the ECB spend very much time looking ahead to 06/07 when we would have to defend the Ashes? No I doubt it. The Aussies spent that time planning revenge and instead of recognising that and preparing accordingly England have slept walked into the series to inevitable defeat. We should have looked in depth at why we won in 05 and made sure we were prepared for the obvious onslaught we would endure. I am afraid its a very British attitude were just not natural winners we like to play the game but don't feel comfortable about winning. Is it any co-incidence that our best player has been a South African where the attitude to sport is similar to Australia. Our preparation for 09 starts here but already expectations are being over blown due to McGraths and WArnes retirement. With their superior system it is highly likely that by the next series the Aussies will have discovered more young talent totally focused and motivated to win an Ashes series in England. I fear it could be another 16 years before the Aussies get bored enough to let us win the Ashes again.
Complain about this postWell done Aggers - no punches pulled, unlike the 成人快手 football pundits who pander to the top 4.
My son really fell in love with cricket at the last Ashes, particularly after I bored him rigid with tales of the Trent Bridge Test. He bought new pads, gloves, a bat which he has now worn out and spent hours in the nets until the darkness precluded any more play. This winter I have had to creep into his room and nag him to turn off his radio so late into the night and concentrate on his schooling (Christmas holidays excluded). These players have undone all of that good work. Not for losing - but for capitulating. They won 1 in 18 years and it went to their heads. MBE laden - what have these 'cricketers' given him?
Agreed, Australia are mentally stronger, technically better and had the advantage of home turf, but you can count on the fingers of half a hand when England truly held the upper hand in this series. 551? Let's declare!!!! What was that all about? Shove 700 on the board and have a go. If you draw, well at least the confidence has been instilled in the batsmen for the remainder of the series.
Yes, we have missed Tresco, Vaughan and Jones, and if Panesar and Read had been picked from the outset, you are talking about roughly half a side, but what do we have in reserve?
..and actually, despite everybody getting so carried away in 2005, lets not forget that McGrath was injured early on and Kasprowicz, Gillespie and Tait haven't featured much this series....
Finally, hat's off to Clark, who has been awesome for the Aussies, and farewell to McGrath, Warne and Langer, professionals and role models for any cricketer.
Complain about this postCrikey, there鈥檚 a lot of angry people in here. All this talk of returning MBEs, abolishing central contracts etc is barmy 鈥 it鈥檚 just the mirror image of the 2005 hype that everyone鈥檚 complaining about. When England win we think they鈥檙e world champions and when they don鈥檛 we think they鈥檙e born losers and the whole system sucks. Get a grip. Look at the improvement in England鈥檚 overall results since central contracts came in; look at how many Aussie players are on central contracts. Yes, we need to learn from the mistakes of this tour, but let鈥檚 be level-headed about it. That鈥檚 what Australia did, after all 鈥 same coach, same captain and pretty much the same team that lost in 2005. If the players returned their MBEs that would be the most pathetic gesture of all. They need to keep them and be stung into feeling they deserve them.
Complain about this postIt appears to me people have forgotten that we only just won the ashes and had one of their ex-bowlers not been injured for one of the games, we probably wouldn鈥檛 have. Add to that they replaced their under performers with excellence and we, well let鈥檚 move on鈥. Additioanlly, we were ill prepared with too many coming back from injury. So, what other result would you expect. In time we鈥檒l get better, we have 鈥測oof 鈥. As to who should play for England, surely the obvious is, look at the county batting and bowling averages and let just one person decide, alternatively, we could ask the Aussies who they鈥檇 least like to play against. Did Geoff Boycott eat his hat?
Complain about this postThe ECB have flagged a "comprehensive and wide-ranging" review following the Ashes debacle, but have immediately undermined it by stating that Fletcher will continue as coach. You can't have a comprehensive review if you rule out potentially necessary changes before you begin.
Complain about this postGreat article Aggers. I'm in total agreement. I've been watching and following england play test cricket for over 40 years and there has been some real down times in the past, but nothing like this ever. To simply through the towel in like that was an utter disgrace, the players should be ashamed of themselves - with one or two exceptions.
As for selection, well we all have our own views, but its blindingly obvious that its a mistake to have a wicket keeper that you cant rely on to bat and guy who is not a test player in at 8.
As for the ODI selection, crazy! Where's Foster of Essex? The Nixon selection is really progressive!
Peter Wood, Billericay
Complain about this postMy son and I have decided to re-name the whole England 11, 12th man and Coach from opening bat onwards. Here goes:
1 Andrew Stressed
2 Alistair UnCooked
3 Ian Dumbell
4 Paul BalsaWood
5 Kevin SouthAfricanSon
6 Andrew 'Wilma' Flintoff
7 Chris I Can't Read
8 Sajit ImNotInTheMood
9 Matthew Hoggsoft
10 Monty Python
11 Steve HarmingNoOne
!2th James AndeNashesOverSon
Coach Duncan Stretcher
Thats how we feel!
Complain about this postIs it unconstitutional for the Queen to hand out medals of the Empire to the colonials with questionable family legacies?
I do hope so.
Complain about this postJonathan has some very pertinent points which need to be investigated in the review. The players, management and staff also need to be honest in their replies. What galls me most about the responses made during the tour is the lack of recognition of failure and the reluctance to speak openly of what has gone wrong.
Let's hope the cricket review is positve and acted upon and not just a paper exercise
Complain about this postAt the risk of oversimplifying, a few (I hope)salient points:
The English 2005 victory was narrow, certainly not emphatic enough to give rise to such confidence.
England then lost three key players, including the captain.
The English replacements have played at a far lower standard, apart from Collingwood.
For Australia it was the weaker players who disappeared and their replacements have made major contributions, especially Stuart Clark.
Flintoff was probably the wrong choice as captain as he is an action man rather than a thinker. he was also not fully fit and his performance has deteriorated markedly.
Giles was physically unfit and completely without match practice; he was also by far the most expensive bowler per wicket in 2005.
Harmison was allowed to be very poorly prepared.
Batsmen 7 to 11 made an average total contribution of 70 in 2005 in the eight completed innings; compare the recent collapses, although they usually followed sub-standard efforts from Nos 1 to 6.
The pool of Test-standard English players seems small; if players such as Mahmood and Anderson are not good enough, are there men capable of replacing them soon?
The successful Australian bowlers are so good because they perform the basics very well - accuracy and consistency; the English fast bowlers in this series were mainly inaccurate and inconsistent, probably because they do not have the opportunities to practice the basics in match conditions.
Cricket in England is dwindling in schools and, as is less well known, at club level. In the counties there are considerable numbers of overseas players, quite often the team stars. As the Premierships in soccer and rugby have the same problem, but more so, is this evidence of a collective decline in interest in playing sport and in the attainment of high quality?
Complain about this postIt's a bit rich Hussain, Gower and Botham and their criticism. Did Hussain ever beat the Aussies (no) Gower and Botham did of course, however when they played the very best in the world in their era it was 5-0 twice to the Windies.
Truth is it might have been closer had we been better prepared, however this is the cricketing equivalent to Brazil 1970, Bjorn Borg or Tiger Woods. Faultless
Complain about this postEngland seems to be making excuses about lack of preperation.That may be almost acceptable for the 1st test ,but not for the second,third,forth and fifth.Surely after each test they become match capable
Sad to see England indulging in whinging
Complain about this posttotally agree with Steve Morrison (post 556) that england should be seriously looking at rashid, davies and broad in the near future. joyce should also be given a chance, i think he is a kind of hussey type player, who doesn't give away his wicket away very easily at all, but is also quite a fluent batsman.
whilst its imperitive that we learn from the mistakes from this series, such as the embarrasing preparation, this is not even close to being as bad as many england teams that have been beaten in Oz, and there are excellent prospects coming though.
So, instead of the doom mongering, lets have some more pro-active comments with solutions as to how to act and what the problems are, not just, "england were pathetic, i don't know why i wasted my time watching them, they should all be hung, we need to select some cricketers with bowling averages of 15 and batting averages of 60+....." which is what this site has largely been filled with. i think it would be great, if possible, to get some aussies in on this 'analysis, whats-the-damage, how-to-move-on', meeting our top officials are having, somebody outspoken but knowledgeable. the officials who made the terrible decisions leading up to the series are unlikely to flog themselves over it, but try to subtly distract the attention from their incompetance.
Complain about this postive been following these blogs for the 5 tests, and have read with interest the comments, and have provided a few of my own hopefully insightful ones. this time however, all i have to say is HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!
Complain about this postHad Flintoff done what Kevin Keegan did and admitted that he wasn't up to the job, I would have had a lot of respect for him.
However, coming out with more feeble excuses about the team's effort and being proud of the team just made him look ridiculous.
I don't usually go for wholesale changes but in this case they are urgent.
Graveney, Flintoff, Fletcher and Morgan do not deserve to stay in their jobs.
It is time to get people who understand common sense involved with the team.
The ECB needs to show some ambition and seek the involvement of the likes of Bob Woolmer, Jeremy Coney, Tom Moody, Dennis Lillee or Dav Whatmore.
If the current people are allowed to stay in charge it is hard to see things improving.
I do fear however that the ECB is just trying to make the right noises with this 'review' and nothing will change.
Complain about this postHave England forgotten how to win ? I have not seen any of this series, because coverage was not available where I live (Germany). But when I heard Flintoff's remark after one defeat, where they had been in a good position, that they were "disappointed", I began to wonder what the English players were expecting or were prepared to do. Disappointment, in my book, usually happens when someone else lets you down or things go wrong because you can't control them. The whole team should have been furious with themselves. Are they ?
Complain about this postHave England forgotten how to win ? I have not seen any of this series, because coverage was not available where I live (Germany). But when I heard Flintoff's remark after one defeat, where they had been in a good position, that they were "disappointed", I began to wonder what the English players were expecting or were prepared to do. Disappointment, in my book, usually happens when someone else lets you down or things go wrong because you can't control them. The whole team should have been furious with themselves. Are they ?
Complain about this postHave England forgotten how to win ? I have not seen any of this series, because coverage was not available where I live (Germany). But when I heard Flintoff's remark after one defeat, where they had been in a good position, that they were "disappointed", I began to wonder what the English players were expecting or were prepared to do. Disappointment, in my book, usually happens when someone else lets you down or things go wrong because you can't control them. The whole team should have been furious with themselves. Are they ?
Complain about this postThey need 2 one day games and two four day state games before the first Test of the series. After the 2nd Test they need one more state game, and one more one dayer in case they need to introduce new players.
Look at the tour schedule we give to Australia when they come to England!
Complain about this postAs an expat England supporter living in Oz I was among those looking forward to a closer Ashes competition. The England cricketers proved in 2005 that they had the goods, and potential to go on with it this season.
The Australian media frequently labels English teams as "The old enemy".
Has England really identified its number 1 enemy? Its closer than we think.
Complacency.
Will this and the other lessons be properly digested, or can we expect more of the same over the next 16 years or so- of Nemesis vs Narcissus?
Complain about this postRE: 626 Rik "Flintoff constantly refers to 'the lads'.
I suspect that the Aussies are 'men'."
Rik, Did you mean 'dads' instead of 'men'? Seen picture of their combined children?
Complain about this postAt the moment everything seems lost and hopeless but I'm convinced that England can bounce back and regain the Ashes in 2009. There have been many negatives - Flintoff has been a disaster as a captain and the bowling has been undisciplined. Flintoff failed to support Panesar with a challenging field and he was unwilling or unable to exert any discipline on those forgotten qualities - line and length. But England have a core of very gifted players. The eight players that England can build around are Strauss, Cook, Bell, Pietersen, Flintoff, Read, Mahmood and Panesar. I don't think the others are worth persisting with and I would opt for Strauss or Bell as captain. Bell has the makings of a great player and the form of Bell and Panesar are the best things to come out of this tour. The biggest disappointment has been Harmison. It's time to lay down an utimatum to him - either give it a 100% or make way for someone who will. The Australian team in 2009 will be a good one - they always are - but even Australia doesn't have eight young players to match England's best.
Complain about this postseries marks out of 10
strauss-4-at times looked great a bit unlucky with decisions but also some poor shot selection.
cook-4-one for the future -would he get into any other major test side at present..i think not
bell-6-has the talent just under performed
pietersen-8-only negative why did he ask to bat at 5 should be in at 4 if not 3!!
collingwood-6 - 2 great innings but 8 very poor/mediocre ones!!!!
flintoff-player -5 -just a pale shadow of 2005
-captain-1-just resign and stop going on about a young team!!!!
jones-2-why was he selected ahead of read
read 5-kept well batted too high up in the order[see later]
hoggard-7-bowled consistently
mahmood-3- overawed but still has potential
anderson-4-ditto
harmisson-4-yes he got better but we had lost the ashes by then either he wants to go abroad or not ....
giles-1- the less said the better
monty-9- he bowled in 4 innings took 10 wickets -but looked englands most dangerous bowler-also look at the respect the aussie crowd gave him-with better more attacking field placement and better selection policy he could easily have doubled that tally...the future is bright..the future is monty!!!!!!
Complain about this postA close look at basic technique would not go amiss. Take a look at the slow-mo replays of English bowlers and the 'scrambled seam' that negates any chance of swing of seam movement. Even club cricketers work to sort that issue out. Then check out the dismissals. Do you think any Australian would charge someone like Glen McGrath and try and hook whilst on the run. Much is made of Peitersons ability but he apears to be a fool without a cricket brain. England play poor one day cricket in the test arena and in a few days time will begin playing poor one day cricket again, just in a different context. Much is made of the Australian response to their Ashes loss, but lets be realistic, their response was not a surprise. It was the English response to the Ashes victory that has been galling. People have spent vast sums of money paying these guys for what?
Complain about this postagree,agree,agree. Why did we prepare so poorly? Do you need a new job Aggers?
Complain about this postHey Mo, post #589.
Your quote about the Ashes series 2005: "Australia... could have easily won the series..." Great quote!! But just a few pointers for you:
- Lord's you outplayed us, no dispute, I know I was there!
- Edgbaston we won a close game, agreed, odd how you lot scream when the English fans talk about Strauss's recent poor umpiring decisions, then go on and on about Kasper's glove not being on the bat! Be consistent will you - the umpire makes the call, email him to complain!
- Old Trafford, match drawn, Lee and McGrath hanging on - last wicket stand, hardly on the verge of victory - saved by rain delays.
- Trent Bridge, we win by 3 wickets, chasing 129, sorry, not really close.
- Oval, match drawn, delays to the game, you lot chasing 340 odd on day 4-5, Hayden & Langer taking the light twice, again hardly on the verge of victory.
2-1, thanks for coming.
Complain about this postOh well, enjoy your recent, well-deserved victory. Will your team be celebrating with their MBEs like our lads did? Are you Aussies allowed them with your questionable history?
well here we go again. having just read david colliers report and my hopes rose when he said there is going to be a review of team england and it well be broard and sweeping, but alas he got the sweeping part right as the next statement read we are not reviewing d. fletchers position, so once again it will all be swept under the carpet. the ecb (egotiscal concited boys) need first to take a long hard look at themselves stop knitting and learn about cricket, they need to realise that it has to be from the grass roots (ie get mr blair or whoever is in power to get cricket back into schools) then a good hard look at county cricket which is so poor, more emphisis on od games in general then look at mamagement structure for the england team along with coaching physio staff, we need a proactive view of cricket not an oh well we won the last one so we will win this one.
Complain about this postwhile we are getting thrashed in the world cup they can be making moves in the backround ready to implement later. most immdiate is the removal fletcher is has had his day.
we are already assuming we are going to the ashes back with the retirees. forget it s. clark in place of mcgrath(i want a dna test on clark make he is not a mcgrath clone) any number of quailty batsmen to replace langer, and mcgill t6o replace warne he even has a better strike rate than warnie, so stop being complacent and work it out now.
but i guess it will just be another glossing over the faults to much old school tie involved.
Whatever happened to Ed Smith? 3 Test over three years ago?
Complain about this postSAD, SAD, SAD PEOPLE
I'm referring to those people (especially aussies) who still prefer to talk about England players handing back their MBEs and celebrating excessively in 2005.
We only celebrated so much because the aussies and English media told us the aussies had an unbeatable team who would beat us 5-0 !!!!!!!!!
I was at the SCG and saw the celebration of the aussies. It was excessive but DESERVED. If we win the next ashes in 2009, i don't think we would start to say that the aussies over celebrated.......infact we would hand out more MBEs if possible
****
Lastly full respects to the barmy army who all stayed at the end of the match and were deservedly respectful to the aussie team especially Warne/McGrath....maybe some aussies could learn a thing or two from that
****
P.S Monty for King
Complain about this postI simply don't understand Englnd's lack of preparation.
In 2002-3 England played 4 tour matches before the first test. As well as a one day game at Lilac Hill, they played 2 games against Western Australia (one 2 day, one 3 day) and a 3 day game against Queensland. They even sent out a weakened side to the Champions Trophy so that the Ashes squad had more preparation time. What's changed since then?
There's no doubt that England missed Vaughan, Tresocthick and Jones. Vaughan for his great captaincy, Trescothick for his super consistent form with the bat, and Jones for his magnificent bowling. But they also missed Troy Cooley massively, as while England were busy celebrating, Cooley switched sides.
I'm now seriously worried about the summer. (I'm presuming both the one dayers down under and the World Cup will mean more humiliation.) This summer England play a resurgent West Indies, who seem to be a much better side than the one England beat 4-0 in 2004. They then play India, who are consistently good and haven't lost a test series to England since 1996. And there's also the small matter of Lara and Tendulkar, both of whom will probably be making their last test appearances in Engalnd, and will want to remind us what they can do.
Complain about this postFor a group of people so intent on disliking everything about England and the English why does the Aussie media (and some Aussies) make so much of the MBEs awarded to the 2005 team and nothing being awarded to them. It is up to the Australian government to give them awards. Surely they wouldn't want something as English as an MBE or a knighthood??? Australia is a great country and this team is special but give it a rest ...
Complain about this postand one more thing on the grass roots i mentioned in my previous blog. pressure needs to be put on the govenment to have all cricket on terrestrial tv so the majority of kids can watch it not just the lucky miniority, and the govenment to subsise the ecb for the differance from sky. then we will get a lot more interest in cricket where it should start at schoolboy level.
Complain about this postJonathan, I am almost certain that England will indeed receive a feaful battering in the one day series. Australia could beat England with a 'C' team let alone their 'A' or 'B' teams. And with New Zealand being well prepared after their series with Sri Lanka, I simply can't see this current squad finding the motivation needed to compete, let alone win. And with the dodgy pitches we're going to get in the West Indies, it wouldn't surprise me to see England get knocked out of the World Cup in the first round.
Complain about this postOne other thing. Only Pietersen, Colloingwood and Bell averaged more than 30 for England. Only Lee, Clark, Martyn and McGrath averaged less than 30 for Australia. Sums it all up really.
Complain about this post"Lessns will be learned" - the great British cop out that means that a inquiry will appear to take place, but in reality it will be business as usual. The ECB are as about as interested in change as British Rail were and consequently English cricket will suffer many more train-wrecks.
How do you fix a cultural divide? As an expatriate of 14 years I have learned that like the Romans of old the Australians expect to win -nothing less is tolerated.
Something the English media could do - stop talking yourselves up. very time there is a sporting world cup England seem to be automatic favourites - regardless of form.
Nick Bleszynski
Complain about this postI'm just beginning to reflect on the size of hole England have dumped themselves into. There's a 20/20 thrash against Australia coming in 4 days then a ODI triangular series with Aus & NZ, commencing with a game aginast Aus, just 3 days later. If (a big 'if') they do well enough in that the final isn't until 13th Feb. There is barely 1 month after that until their first game in the World Cup (in W.Indies).
This competition goes on until several weeks into the English county season. About a month after comes a test series aginst the Windies. I doubt that England will dump the coach etc during this period so any major upheavals will have to take place later in the summer. Also will this give time for Vaughan to get match fit or Simon Jones to be available ?
Looks like we need to get very used to the feeling of disappointment. Of course things may change but a few good results against Kenya and Canada in the World Cup will not atone for this effort.
Complain about this postOK the Australians won 5 nil. Why, mainly because England regained the Ashes in 2005! Was this the only reason? No, the class system, which still permeates through English cricket administration has much to answer for. The English Cricket team would be well advised to go to one of the British Rugby League Teams such as St Helens or Bradford and learn a bit of that old Northern English hardness. Then, the English Cricketers might develop a bit of ruthlessness. Also, when ever a group of Australians gather, in summer or winter, a bat and ball usually appears and young and old have a game of backyard cricket. It doent matter where but this culture is right across Australia and this is the big difference between Australia and England, apart from the Rugby League, Aussie Rules hardness that is in most Australian Test Cricketers. The loss isnt about whether England played better or worse than Australia it is about a mental toughness and the persistance of a class system based cricket administration. Get that Northern toughness back and select your best players, whether or not they dont speak proper, and then you will see a competition!
Complain about this post****FLINTOFF SHOULD NOT BE BLAMED
The criticism of flintoff by so many people is comical...for the following reasons:
1. Like any young enthusiatic player he wanted to captain his country.....I would be more worried if he said he didn't. It is the team selectors that should have realised Strauss was a much better option..... but also remember other players should always give their opinions on fielding positions etc......look at Warne
2. Everyone knows what is said in the post match statements are just PR exercises...so what if he says he is "dissapointed"...that is all he is really allowed to say...do you think he would get away saying " Harmison was crap, Mahmoud worse, Giles should not have turned up...." ofcourse not you plonkers.
3. Flintoff was our best bowler (admittedly Hoggard was also very good)
4. He was recovering from a long injury....those people who say he therefore should not be playing are equally naive....an 80% fit Flintoff is still better than any alternatives we have.
5. He along with Monty and Hoggard gave 100% this series. That leaves the others to seriously question yourselves....Mahmoud's feeble attempted run out opitimised this poor effort
(even when the aussies lost last year, their general effort and technique were still good)
ref: Maz #687
Good assessment.
Complain about this postP.S Monty for PM
As an Aussie supporter, two issues stood out this tour.
1. England scored too slowly. You could put this down to some excellent bowling but, even when the Aussies were under the pump ( in Melbourne ), they were still going at 3 an over so it's not a huge ask to get that up to over 4 .. and suddenly you're in the driver's seat and can take advantage very quickly. This is how to seize the moment. ( a lesson from the Steve Waugh era )
2. Australia were never bowled out twice - a fairly fundamental requirement for winning. Thought that the ability to select 5 bowlers would give England a big chance all things being equal ( witness the scramble to find an Aussie all-rounder ), but ,apart from Hoggard, no real commitment to the basics of bowling.
How Stuart Clark got under the radar is puzzling - didn't anyone watch the series v Sth Africa when he replaced McGrath and excelled ?
Great for the kids to attend the MCG test and witness the Aussie greats - and one of the best batting partnerships I've ever seen. Summed up the series - two mates hanging in, riding it out and putting the pedal down to overpower the opposition. To snag a maiden ton by lobbing the ball into the Members was astonishing. And of course the local-boy-made-good - Shane Warne from Beaumaris. Golden memories.
Complain about this postIf there is one thing we English excel at it is over-reacting. We over-reacted when we just beat the Aussies in 2005, parades, honours, ridiculous. We played at the top of our game - everything clicked, the Aussies had some injury problems - but let's not forget under continuous pressure they creaked, it was not all injuries and poor form as some pro-Aussie comments on here would have you believe.
We are in danger of over-reacting again to a pretty comprehensive beating. Yes we were not prepared, yes we had our injury problems, yes good players under performed, yes we fell apart under pressure, but let's not forget Australia were at their very best - especially in their bowling, they were superb.
Mahmood and Anderton are not ready for this level of cricket, Read is at best average, Vaughn, Trescothick and Jones are all top class and were missing, Flintoff is clearly not fully fit, and Panesar, Bell and Cook are just starting out, not excuses just facts, our team was not equipped to take on such a worldclass team.
So let's not over-react, a brilliant side beat us, beat us soundly, we didnt compete because on the whole we were not able to compete, our best team fully fit and on top form would have had to deliver 100% to compete with this Aussie side.
Complain about this postAs a former English supporter, who has lived in Australia for a mere 47 years, I must agree with Aggers. The English team were under prepared, poorly selected, ill led on the field and clearly lacking in team spirit and old fashioned "grit". I cannot believe that this team was the best one available from the various county teams. I would think that only Flintoff from the team would even be considered for selection in the Australian team, and then only maybe. A complete change of attitude by the whole English cricketing establishment is needed now.
Complain about this postHistory's lessons are rarely remembered. Never choose a captain just because he is a natoinal hero, especially if he is an all-rounder who bowls fast (see Ian Botham). Never select players who have had no time to find their form (see multitudes of selection decisions in the 1960s and 1970s that involved Ted Dexter). Always select players who are genuinely brilliant when they are fit (does the tale of Monty and the Gabber spring to mind?). Make sure the team has had real competition before the first test so that players can find their form or be condemned to drive the drinks trolley as twelth men (the Agnew man is right).
Complain about this postI was so distracted today by the pathetic england display that i bought a parakeet whose head had fallen off. how bad is that!
Complain about this postOh come on. 700-odd posts after a cricket game? Get a life, people. Agnew may, on balance, be right but the idiot who said that they should compare themselves to 'senior executives' when deciding on when and how often they should see their children, as if the pursuits - or the way of pursuing them - were in any way comparable ... Please.
And the rest of you semi-literate cretins, learn to spell and punctuate before you defile the message boards with your drivel. Dolts.
Complain about this postFirstly, congratulations to Australia for demonstrating the calibre of cricket that is required to occupy pole position for such a prolonged period. I think the selection was wrong from the start, Flecther was clearly clinging on to the 2005 Ashes triump like a kid to a confort blanket. I would say that most people seem to be placing too much emphasis on the lack of preparation by England. People are overlooking the fact that the Aussies had little cricket to prepare for it either, they just made up for that with professionalism and intensity. Some big changes need to happen, starting with the bowlers. We never looked like taking 20 Austrlian wickets, they made it look difficult enough to bowl Austrlia once. I think need to find some conventional line and length bowlers such as Clarke and Mgrath who have proved how relentless accuracy leads to cheap wickets. The England selection committee have placed too much importance on pace and not enough on accuracy. Harmison has shown how innocuous pace is without any accuracy.
Complain about this postCongratulations again Australia, on what i think has been and will remain the best Austrlian side of all time.
will the england hiearchy be reading Aggers points and all the comments here?. Can someone please post them to Fletcher Graverney and Flintoff?
england cricket team is following in the footsteps of the football team -- excuses, overpaid yuppie players, media-hype and the wags - c'mon did no one learn the lessons of Sven's mistakes of taking Wags to the world cup?
Complain about this posteven in this humiliation, they cannot admit how badly they played -- did you listen to Strauss and Collingwood on bbc highlights fri night - such shameless lack of integrity!!
thanks aggers i have to live here and to here you on the ABC was great. but i look at the game and yes we did get flogged in biz and we scored to slow in the first inning in Adelaide we should have batted on to at least 600 and then with a bit of luck not bat again
Complain about this postthen to Perth well what can in i say abut that except SA umpire and then to Melbourne test and yes again SA umpire and i know they had some bad calls but they didn't hurt them that much as we got out with only a few runs later but Hayden out 3 times lbw before he had 15 to his name and the English alrounder Simmonds caught behind ill say know more but they wouldn't have had 100 on the board
then scg well i think they where still at the new years party at the harbour but i will say that we should look at the itinerary and not pander to ca and play the test series over the summer like they used to do not in 6 weeks
Steve Neal pottsville nsw oz
It was like watching 'boys play men!'
I was at all days of the Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney tests
Complain about this postJonathan I agree with most of what you say.Unfortunately any inquiry that does take place will be behind closed doors because the old farts who run cricket in England won't have it any other way.
Please name the fool who sign off on the itinerary and was this person using the same drugs as Fletcher when he decided on Jones and GIles over Read and Panaser.Are these drugs available on the NHS beacause they are clearly freely available in the England camp as demonstarted by the selection of Nixon aged 36 and never played a ODI.
Why where the lesson learnt from the Botham in the 80s not heeded you cannot bat bowl and be capt.
One suspects the only thing that will shake the old farts at the ECB is sky demanding a refund.I sure Sky thought they were paying for the defence of the Ashes not 11 Aussie pro cricketers against an old farts 11 making fools of themshelves.
As for Warne and Mcgrath am I the only person who is sick to the stomach of watching these guys take P....s out of English cricket.Bu**er the pair of you I'm glad I will never see you ugly chuntering sledging mugs on a cricket pitch again.
I know Aussies love a bet here one for you Warne will last less than a year with Channel 9 he will mke a total ass of himself and became a national embarassment
Complain about this postThis is hout out doubt the greatest sporting defeat England has ever suffered. Humiliated in every way. History will record this as the most devasting and crushing defeat of all time and the historians will be still be talking about it in 100 years time. Let History be the judge, Remove the dead wood in the ECB, send the MCC back into the archives where they belong.
Our inept cultural arrogance makes the Australians look dignified and noble, could there be a bigger reason to get off our collective bums and learn how to honour our country and move into the future with diginity rather than the revolting self praise so typical of our over achievers?
We are a sick country and like an alcoholic, the first steo to recovery is to admit we have a problem andn use courage and humility to chart a new course to a better national psychology.
Complain about this postThank you England.
Complain about this postThank you for wining the Ashes in 2005 and waking us all up.
Thank you for celebrating for 12 months when you probably should have been preparing.
Thank you and congratulations on your MBEs.
Thank you for bringing the real Ashes to Australia.
Thank you for bringing your Barmy Army.
Thank you for bringing Michael Vaughan.
Thank you for bringing Marcus Trescothick.
Thank you for making Freddie Flintoff captain.
Thank you for bringing Duncan Fletcher.
Thank you for giving Harmy the first over in Brisbane.
Thank you for Adelaide.
Thank you for Perth.
Thank you for the 鈥淕鈥.
Thank you Paul Collingwood for firing up Shane Warne in Sydney, I think he really needed that spur.
Thank you Andrew Strauss for being a worthy recipient of Warnies 700th successful delivery. I was there. I am truly blessed.
Thank you Freddie for your thoughtful field placings in Melbourne. Andrew Symons, I鈥檓 sure, also thanks you.
Thank you Monty, you were a diamond amid fool's gold.
Thank you England for the guard of honour for Langer, very nice touch.
Thank you Harmy for firing up on the last day of the series.
Thank you to all the English blog posters on all the cricket websites, it has been fun reading them.
Thank you to the English press, your comments are always well received in these parts.
Thank you Aggers, I could listen to you talking cricket all day. As a matter of fact I did.
Thank you all for the best two months of my cricket following life. It will now take several Headingly鈥檚 of 81鈥 to wipe the smile from my dial. And that鈥檚 not going to happen any time soon.
Thank you England. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
I think you have covered all the pertinent questions re the English team and management and I couldn't agree more. I think the euphoria of 2005 ( as far as the English players were concerned ) was expected to carry them through to this latest series because as you mentioned the fact of little or no preperation. People should remember that the result in England could have gone either way but for just a couple of runs. I am a lover of Cricket and have been for many years and thoroughly enjoyed the 2005 series which generated enormous interest. I hope to look forward to better competition in 2009 but England have a lot of work to do.
Complain about this postThere are no excuses. The Aussie team was better than the English team under the conditions and had home field advantage and all the comforts that go with that. In 2005, the English team won but barely (the only difference really was 2 runs in the second test). After that, the English team was weakened by losing Simon Jones and injuries to Flintoff while the Aussie team was strengthened (Hussey and Clark) and more focused. And reverse swing (whatever that is) was not a factor under Aussie conditions. Given these factors, would you not expect England to lose Ashes. Going 5-0 required some luck for Australia, but it does not matter if you lose 2-3 or 0-5, you still lose.
Complain about this postThe ECB has announced a comprehensive review. Let us hope the review is not just cosmetic but acknowledges that basic problems exist and need to be tackled. What I am bothered about is that on TV yesterday, after the Test was over, the English players just did not seem to be gutted. Rather, the expression on their faces appeared to be one of relief that the series was over. This laid back attitude needs to be changed to something akin to the Australian intensity. Also, England do need a sports psychologist to improve their mental strength because apart from their lack of preparation they appeared to overawed by the Aussies.
Complain about this postSteve at wisbech wrote "HOLD ON!"
"Australia played exceptionally well in every test, taking chances at key moments, this is where England failed. The first 3 tests were close, England had their chances."
Well in the first test Australia declared TWICE and still beat England by 277 runs. The second test was won by 6 wickets and in the third test Aust declared the second inings at 5/527 and still won by 206 runs. I am realy looking foward to what you call a bad loss!
Actually the whole series was a complete disappointment. The last Ashes had just about everything, drama, tension,twists and turns that no one could predict and an end result that even an Australian cricket tragic like myself could live with. This series the only game in town was to see by how much the Aussies would win by.
What that last ashes series did was ensure that not one Australian player involved will ever forget the loss and hoop la that followed. As long as just one of them remains in the team there will be steel in that team to smash England at every opportunity. Going out to play well is a mugs game, going out to WIN is the only way a TEST should be played.
One comment from the last series I was pleased to hear then was by an England player to the effect "the Australians think they can beat us at everything, lets show them otherwise" Any chance of England being embarrassed by being whipped so hard and responding as Australia did?
Well, England has two choices, learn nothing and we will happily smash you again and again (we actually quite enjoy it) or forge a team of steel out of this crucible and play like men who are representing their country.
For the sake of cricket you had better do the latter.
cheers
Kookaburra
Complain about this postAbsolutely awesome!!! I've been following Aussie cricket (and I'm not an Aussie) for as long as I can remember and I'm simply thrilled -- not so much coz they won, but coz I can now grin in the face of all those that called me an ignoramus when I said England could not win. If 1992 was Pakistan's 'Cornered Tigers' then this series has been about the Aussie 'wounded' ones.
Complain about this postThanks Aggers and the whole TMS team for some great entertainment.
Incidentally, is it too early to starting printing "Boycott for Coach" T-shirts?
Hello All
Complain about this postThe girly game of soccer played by a lot of sissies.
If you want real football played by real men, not whimpy sissies and pretenders, try Aussie Rules Footy or Rugby that's a real game as well, but knowing the English, if they chose another code it would be American football (gridiron) my you do look hunky with all that padding you are wearing.
I don't understand comparing cricket with the girly game anyhow, it irrelevant.
I am don't think we should even play the sissies game in OZ. Perhaps Queensland could be made an exception, over the Christmas period.
Thanks lads for a great ashes series and God Save the Queens ooops Queen.
toodle pip all you english chasps.
s.n.a.g.
As much as I enjoy seeing the Poms get flogged I have to admit that I actually enjoyed to 2005 series a lot more than this one.
It was good to see some really tight cricket for a change ... even though we lost.
I sincearly hope that England can exorcise its demons and produce a lot better performance in 2009.
Complain about this postAggers, lucky your heading home
Thanks for the great commentry on the ABC and see you in 4 yrs
steve
Complain about this postYou English just don't get it.
Complain about this postYes most descend from convicts and colonial times.Thats to our advantage,our kin wanted to survive and TRIED. 200 hundred years ago they were caught and sent here [thank you God]-that was the law but that risk taking ,get up and do it,clear the land, work till you drop ethos has served us well.We've taken it to world wars and Aussie soldiers have won the admiration of of other nations. We continue to take it into all our endevours. How about the stories of how easily we got jobs in England during our world wanderings and how obvious our work ethic is. Did we winge? a little, [your food was rotten and maybe that could come into consideration, a new "cricket"healthy diet!] but we just got on with it and worked-homesick and all.
Aussies loving their sport and wanting to win or die trying, is attached to a lot we do. The "tyranny of distance"and geographical isolation meant we had to learn to stick at it. Berating us for this fine attribute is silly. Convicts? England, you started it.
Back to cricket: heaven knows I'm a full 30 year test watching adict but as said before, you just dont get it. We will always go in to try and win, we wont just hope. We will work ,plan , sacrafice and concentrate and if we fail, we will do it all again. Our country will pick us up and the "irish" in us [gawling for the Brits] will bring traditions and songs of green caps and standing beneath a constallation to strengthen our resolve.
I. Chappell has written it-you can count on England doing us a favour, over hyping in the media,poor selections, and not preparing.
How does it hurt England? I mean really hurt? Well if you had shown some much needed restraints in your 2005 celebrations, now that was class, NOT! and paused to watch us you may have learnt a thing or 3. We hurt.
You disrespected the history of the Ashes. There are 2 nations required in the epic bi-seasonal battle and excessive , extended champagne froth belittled the opposing team. Next time [if it happens] celebrate on the field in front of packed stadiums by all means, enjoy the locker room festivities and then...go home and work for your next game. I for one ,[and I am sure we number in the tens of thousands] was quietly digusted. Ricky Ponting dead motherless drunk on top of a bus?-I cant imagine.
The Aussie team was always going to win. 1. because all our skills are better and that is usually enough i.e. Federer
2. you didn't underestimate us, you failed to estimate at all!
3. the thrill and the test of sport is with us, the glory and the pay checks is with you.
I would love to have seen a really good contest but alas , the English team appears to have done what the English nation appears to be doing, listening to old voices, and staying home ....
As an Australian looking at the English campaign, a number of obsevations can be made on strategy and approach. A win in UK is not a win in Australia. Obviously the conditions are different and the Australian team adjusted their game to counter the successful 2005 strategies. A total new game plan had to be devised and not a rehash of the tactics that just got England over the line in'05.
Secondly, defeat is a bitter pill and not to be swallowed gamely. It's to be hated and should bread a vicious determination that it will not happen again - remember Alan Border in 1987. The sight of the English team bravely spouting polite optimistic words after each thumping was not inspiring to say the least.
Cricket is a team sport and everyone works for the common good. You train hard together, work to new levels of excellence in skills (that's what it's about and not coloured diagrams - ask Glen McGrath), and sometimes take the rough end of the pineapple for the team's sake and still work just as hard. You listening K Pietersen?
Once the right level of skills are achieved along with the team ethic, and the agressive mind set that refuses defeat, then you can start to look at the players. To pick players who are unfit, lack hardness in terms of match fitness and personality (Harmison?), and who are not the best available (Read and Panasar should have been walk up starts) is sheer folly.
Finally it is obvious that playing cricket in Australia is different from England. Mould the team, improve skills, get the right attitude and player mix by playing the best domestic criket teams going round as England used to - the Australian state teams.
Aggers is right in evrything he has said. Unfortunately he's been too polite and pulled a few punches. The English team was just soft and poorly prepared against a detemined, fit and skilled Australian team. What else did they expect to find Down Under?
Complain about this postWhat a complete shambles! Can't bowl, can't bat, can't field and can't even put up a decent fight! Those MBEs that were so easily given away in 2005 should now be returned, with a letter of apology to the British public for such an abject performance.
Complain about this postGreat commentary throughout the summer aggers. You bring a great mix of humour, insight and modesty to the cricket. I would often watch the cricket on TV with the radio commentary with you and skull (O'Keefe).
I was very disappointed with the performance of the English. I thought they were "lucky" in a sense to come away with the Ashes in 2005, although I must admit you must be good enough to put yourself in a position to utilise the luck that comes to you. The biggest problem seems that the team, after putting in the effort and winning the 2005 Ashes it appeared that they thought it was going to be easier to win from then on.
This is no better shown than when the English bowlers were bowling to the Australian tailenders. Hoggard was the only bowler consistently prepared to bowl at the stumps and make them play at the ball. The others, especially Harmison, seemed to think that they just had to bowl any ball and the tailend batter should lose his wicket just like that.
That is one of the reasons why the Australian tail wagged so much. The English bowlers bowled a lot of fruit to the tailenders who got some very cheap runs. The other reason is that the Australian tailenders actually strive to work on their batting - in tests, state and club matches. This of course leads us to the idea of a team.
Every player in the Australian team are willing to work for the team. If the 5th test first innings, Australia did not bat well. When the tailenders (bowlers) were in they stuck around to grind out much needed runs. They did not think "I'll have a swing and see what happens" they knew that they were also responsible for the total score.
Much was made in the fourth test about the leaked bowling plans. As much as I am not keen on that stuff, it was no excuse for England's performance. Their ability to carry out games plans and the tactics itself was very flawed form the get go. Let's look at a few things.
Andrew Symonds - everybody knows that Roy likes to score runs freely. If you bottle him up sooner or later he plays a rash shot and gets out. So why on earth to you play a deep mid on and mid off to allow him cheap singles?
Monty Panesar - a good bowler that will be great in the future. The major problem is that you need a surpremely economical bowler at the other end. Spinners get a lot of wickets if there is constant pressure at the other end. Look at Warne - he does well when McGrath is at the other end. The batsmen sooner will try to get the score ticking over - rash shot surely to come.
Bowlers overs - so many time I saw English bowlers come on for 5-6 over spells. I think that is when a bowler is just starting to get a rhythm in their spell. They should be bowling 8-10 overs per spell. If they are nursing injuries and can't sustain that then don't play them.
Kevin Pietersen - boy is he a talent. At the moment though he is very much following in the footsteps of Mathew Hayden in his early years. Mathew was very much a boundary or no run batsmen. He would hit the ball hard and it would either go to boundary or to a fielder. If the field settings were good he would get tied up, feel the pressure and get out. Now he knows how to take the pace of the ball, work the singles, change the angles. Kevin needs to do that. The Australians are starting to work him out in the last 2 tests.
Andrew Strauss - was very unlucky at times with some decisions. But his technique also put him in those positions. He got out in similar fashion on many occasions (lbw to the balls that jag back in, caught at short backward square, and caught while trying to dab just outside off stump). Does that tell you something?
Andrew Bell - the English batsman I most admired as he was the only one who really seemed to value his wicket at ALL times.
Thanks for your time.
Complain about this postWhat is this rubbish about England not being prepared? Fair dinkum cobbers, if you can't be prepared for an Ashes campaign knowing that it is the biggest ticket in cricket then when can you ever be prepared for anything?
Might I suggest if that is truly the problem that you consider playing lawn bowls instead because clearly you are not cut out for test match cricket.
Complain about this postAs an Australian with British heritage this series has been the biggest disappointment. We wanted a battle, wanted to see some grit from the English. What we got was complacency and a total lack of pride.
Australians will give their right leg and their grand-mother to wear the baggy green. The English gave the impression that they would possibly trade an unloved teddy-bear. Where has that British fighting spirit gone?
While Australia were the better cricketers, this series was lost because the English came without passion and character. I hope for the sake of world cricket that the ECB review is far-reaching and some of the players are given a right rollicking.
Complain about this postPersonally, being English and living in Australia, this test series was a total embarrassment. The highlight for me was listening to the ABC radio coverage and Jonathan Agnew's silken voice.
Complain about this postEngland were scared of Australia from the first dayand the umpires did not help by giving Strauss out twice caught behind when he didn't hit the ball and other times. Why oh why don't the Umpires refer to the third Umpire to see LBW and caught behind. It really demoralised England.
I am English.
Best wishes to England
Joan Bees
Complain about this postIve noticed a lot of mentions of 2005 and McGrath's injury being the "only" reason we won.
Complain about this postThere is absolutely no way anyone can make that assumption, good as he is there were times during this series and especially during 2005, where he looked every bit as old as he was.
Anyone remember Bret Lee's athleticism to dismiss one of the england top order? never in a million years would McGrath have got there and that may have resulted in yet another test century.
I don't think England got the selection right, but we can change it around...there is potential there. I think Freddie has to drop down to 7. he is not a world class number 6. Also what about substituting the horribly average Anderson and Mahmood for a batting seamer? Im thinking of Stuart Broad batting at 8. So I'd go for:
Complain about this postTrescothick
Strauss
Bell
Peitersen
Vaughan
Collingwood/Darlyample/Joyce
Flintoff
Read
Broad
Harmisson
Panesar
Hoggard
Thankyou Jonathan.
Complain about this postThroughout the test series I listened to your commentary. Whilst watching the TV I listened on the ABC and thoroughly enjoyed your lively, informative, and unbiased sessions. I look forward to hearing you again next summer.
There aren't the words to describe how bad England have been on this tour. I don't want to take anything away from a fantastic Aussie team. But it should not have been so easy for them. Shane Warne said it: club cricketers. There's some truth in it, but more in terms of preparation, commitment and leadership. The defeat at Adelaide ranks as probably the tamest in test history, though all credit to Australia for grabbing it off the plate when handed to them. I do have to take issue with Andy, Aussie in USA, for his comment about Michael Vaughan and others bottling the tour. Hallo! He and Simon Jones were injured. On your logic, McGrath bottled the two tests Australia lost in 2005. There's plenty that England got wrong, if you want to have a go. Why pick on something that wasn't their fault?
Complain about this postSo, 5-0 it is. Now we all await, with bated breath, the "comprehensive review" ordered by the cravat brigade within the corridors of Lord's. Cue another whitewash, this time off the pitch?
I can't help remembering something Merv Hughes said during the 1990s, as England tumbled to defeat after defeat.
"When they lose, the Australians look for reasons. The English look for excuses."
Complain about this postWell said Jonathan
Complain about this postBut aren`t we forgetting one thing didn`t the aussie stay in the ICC trophy longer (yes I know they won it) then they returned back to Australia with the same limited time and had their army style get together in the outback and were still too good.
Maybe it was this get back to the real world that did it for them and that they weren`t living on past glory as the English team seem to be,and maybe warne was right the English were still thinking about where they were going to hang those MBE`s.
Don`t know how many of the current team will be getting an upgrade on those medels
I agree with your comments Jonathan.
However as well as saying goodbye to Duncan Fletcher it is surely time for David Graveney as Chairman of the Selectors to be shown the door as well, for the decision to make a unfit Andrew Flintoff captain instead of Andrew Strauss was a poor and self defeating one and just helped the Australians in their cause to regain The Ashes.
Complain about this postIt has come to my notice that, in an early move to improve England鈥檚 cricketing fortunes, Sir Clive Woodward will in due course be appointed Team Manager in the run-up to the 2009 Ashes. His success in winning the Rugby World Cup, his man-management skills, together with the prospect of a completely fresh approach to tactical planning both on and off the field, will be given as the reasons for his appointment.
I understand that success is likely to result in a peerage for him, but in the meantime most of the players who were honoured following the Ashes success of 2005 are to be stripped of their MBE鈥檚 following the example of Naseem Hamed . The only exception is Marcus Trescothick.
In a further bombshell, it is thought that Shane Warne, who will be resident in the UK until 2009, and has discovered Scottish maternal grandparents, (the McWarrens of East Lothian), will, (under the qualification rules), be available to play for England against Australia in 2009.
It is thought that his paternal grandparents had moved to Australia and changed their name from McWarren to 鈥榃arne鈥 and that the close genetic mix that produced Shane might explain his extraordinary dexterity and bowling skills. (He is, in fact, his own first cousin). He is very keen to win back the Ashes and an MBE.
Sir Clive has already hinted that , should Warne indeed be available to play for England, he will bat him at 3 and Trescothick at 8 to strengthen the tail if Trescothick is fit. In a surprise move Trescothick would be selected as a front line bowler. Sir Clive believes that bowling is far less stressful than batting , because "when batting you can be out if you make one mistake, but, as a bowler, you can bowl lots of bad balls, or no-balls and still get another chance".
Is Sir Clive the right man for the job?
Complain about this postWell, well. England are starting to do something right at last if it really is true that Duncan Fletcher is prepared to take advice from Warne,McGrath and co.
I have been saying for some time now that if English cricket is to get back on the rails we should concentrate more on what the Australians have been doing right and less on what England are doing wrong.
Starting, as I have been pleading, with attitude and where better to start than Warne. He, like the rest of the Australian team, were never going to allow England to hold on to the Ashes. For them it was all out war.
For England it is still a game. Some you win, some you lose. Never mind, there's always 2009. Oh dear, I was out first ball. What a pity!
Yuk! Perhaps next time we shall see a team fighting for their country. Preferably a new team rather than this lot who just lay down and died.
Complain about this postJust for a minute there....
Oh cruel strikes the weather and cold
Black, the night is black
Howling gales and icy rain
Dashing 鈥榞ainst the window pane
Seek out every crack
He pulls the duvet round him
Lying in the gloom
And slides yet further down the bed
Whilst looming inches from his head
In the still bedroom
A red eye stares unblinking
And a steady drone
Draws him draws him ever inward
Draws him sends him drifting downward
Falling as a stone
Away from the bleak December
Away from the night
To where the siren voices call
The cultured and the Yorkshire drawl
Away to the light
Of a midsummer sun
Beaming from on high
Hotly kissing a hostile land
Where seagulls like stone statues stand
鈥榥eath a Southern sky
Here do two mighty armies meet
Across the spongy field
One by an honest hero led
And t鈥 other side in truth 鈥榯is said
Never think to yield
He hears the banished trumpet sound
Martial serenades
Oh what glorious deeds are done
The toss been won, the fight begun
Then the vision fades鈥︹
The dear one stirring in her sleep
Mutters something low
He鈥檚 not quite sure but thinks the gist
Is of a Christmas shopping list
Then the radio
Relays the Shipping Forecast
Still he happy smiles
The Boys out there are having fun
They鈥檝e got the Daleks on the run
Got them licked by miles
Lord KP has quelled McGrath and
Tamed the Demon Warne
Squire Collingwood has sensibly
Reached his double century
Skippy looks forlorn
The Brisbane Ambush now is part
Of the shameful past
And though the war has not been won
It seems the campaign鈥檚 really on
His hopes are rising fast
As through the window o鈥檈r the bed
The lovely moonlight gleams
The lashing rain for now has stopped
The howling gale has quietly dropped
He switches off鈥
and dreams
Complain about this postThanks Aggers and Co
Re Post 534# At 01:50 PM on 05 Jan 2007, Chris Miller wrote:
"The english cricket authorities need to give serious consideration to restricting foriegn player access to County cricket."
They already do
"Meanwhile in the Australian summer, where are the English players in the inter-state competition?"
Answer - not good enough to play in it.
"Shane Warne is "out to pasture" as the Hampshire captain. A place that should be occupied by an up-and-coming Englishman."
On the other hand, how much could some young players learn from wily old Warne whilst he is their captain for 2 years?
Complain about this postThere is a truism in sport - it is easier reaching the top than staying there. England were magnificent in 2005. Australia on the other hand had been top dog for a decade. The under dog did the impossible and knocked the top dog off but then ignored the hard work needed to stay there. All that they managed to do was get the top dog angry with the most overdone triumphalism in the history of sport.
Maybe next time it happens England will remember the bitter lessons of 2006/07. More modesty in victory and more determination to prove that it is no one off should be the order.
Complain about this postJust heard Duncan Fletcher's suggestion that both Warne and McGrath could be used to help improve England's bowling techniques in advance of the 2009 Ashes encounter with Australia.
Where is his pride in the capacity of English cricket to determine its own destiny? Both Warne and McGrath consistently belittled England - both in cricketing terms and in both clever and not so clever psychological gambits - and Fletcher now wants to use them in his future preparations ? Perhaps his South African nationality has blinded him to the fact that it would represent a major abdication of national pride to seek to solve the present crisis by resorting to the skills of England's Australian tormentors.
The more I hear from Fletcher, the more convinced I am that England need to jettison him immediately. I do not like Geoff Boycott as a person ; but I have to concede that he would instil some much needed steel into a team without a backbone. And, yes, Freddie Flintoff is a cricketing genius ; but the inappropriateness of some of his remarks in the wake of England's defeat would strongly suggest that the captaincy is not a mantle which suits him. Bell or Strauss would have been much more effective picks for captain.
Complain about this postI don't accept that England won in 2005 because Australia were complacent and underprepared any more than I accept that as a reason for England losing in 2006/07. England won in 2005 because they played to their abilities. We do need to move on though - 2005 is long done and dusted and the glory has faded in the light of the subsequent retribution meted out by Australia.
Next series will be different again with different players and a different result. That is one lesson that England might learn from this debacle. You don't win simply because that's what happened last time.
Complain about this postI wonder if the England players and coaches read our comments. After all, we are the people on whose interest their income depends. There is not much point in posting if the subject does not bother to read it. Would anyone from the England camp care to comment on this? (Perhaps its a bit too difficult to read a laptop screen on a sunny beach in Australia).
Complain about this postSpot on once again Aggers. The collective England squads have played only 83 days of International cricket this year and yet they were unable to find either the time or the motivation to prepare themselves both technically and mentally for this Ashes challenge. I am fed up with hearing the comment from the English camp of "Credit to the Aussies". They were ruthless winners in this series driven by a collective will to succeed. This collection of England players did try as best as they allowed themselves given their lack of preperation. But in all walks of life we are responsible for our own mental and technical preperation and this group to a man failed themselves, the fans and the English public at large with a corinthian level of amateurism. Coaches coach and Captains lead but they will always be helpless if the players take no personal responsibility. It was famously said that the harder I practice the luckier I get. If nothing else this chastening experience should instill in all our players a more professional attitude towards their personal preperation. After all they have 282 days a year in which to try.
Complain about this postThankyou Jonathon for your excellent persceptive comments, with which I whole heartedly agree.
I feel that Flintoff must be relieved of the captaincy, which shold pass either back to Vaughan if fit, or else Strauss.
Complain about this postKeep picking Read - he is such a good wicket keeper. Actually I feel Engalnd will have a formidable team by the next ashes.
After reading page after page of, in most instances, drivel about Selection management, Panasar, poor preparation etc I would like to offer the following.
2 months ago the British Rugby Leaague Team came to Australia to compete in the Tri Nations between themselves, the Kiiwi's and the Aussies.
The British Press lauded this team as the team to knock the Southern hemisphere teams off their arrogant pedestals, ie (We have closed the gap now).
As the comp progressed and the team began getting it's usual flogging the whines and whinges/complaints commenced.
(1) Poor preparation prior to leaving the UK.
(2) Poor Management.
(3) Poor selection,
(4) Poor Captaincy,
(5) Injuries to key players.
One key player decided to go home halfway through the comp for 'personal reasons'.
Sound familiar ?
Of course they were thrashed and failed to reach the finals. What is it with English teams these days ? Do we now have a handbook of standard whinges and excuses that we can draw upon when we perform poorly ?
Complain about this postMBE'S - Members of Beaten England
Complain about this postmate its all about heart and the will to win practice does not do that for you a good team will allways beat a team of champs
Complain about this postFrom America--What went wrong.
Complete overconfidance.
Complain about this postNot giving Tom Cooley a 3 year contract.
Not building on the team that beat Pakistan. A team which had shown excellent team spirit and not individuallity.
They named 5 players to tour who had not played cricket all summer.
Naming Flintoff as captain and not giving continuity with Straus.
Too much power with Fletcher who is closed minded. Another Manager should have been named or another selector on tour with an open mind.
A more strenuous build up to the tour with people who were "half hearted " about being on tour not picked.
Not staying with Reid and Panestar and what happened to Yardy?
I agree with Agger's comments about the Ashes and share his concerns about the VB one day series and the World Cup, where I expect England to get to the Super 8 stage, but to perform poorly while in it.
I don't agree with the comments of John Ravi Thomas (that the current England team is bunch of useless cricketers with no pride, inspiration or backbone) - they had a nightmare in Oz, but they're not useless cricketers and they'll prove that in the UK this summer.
Complain about this postFlintoff was the wrong choice for captain, Andrew Strauss should have been retained. He did a good job turning the summer matches round from a poor start to end with the ecellent performances aginst Pakistan. The team structure should have been retained from that series - why dismantle a group playing well together for the sake of loyalty to semi fit players from the 2005 side? Fletcher should be retained as coach, but with either Vaughan or Strauss as captain. Flintoff should be told to forget captaincy and concentrate on fitness and honing his alround skills, especially improving his ability to reverse swing (with both Reader and Kookaurra!) in the absence of Jones.
Complain about this postHey y'all
Complain about this postFirstly i think the English should hand their MBE's to the Aussies if they're wiling to have them (unlikely tho). Also, this idea of seeking advice from Warne and Mgrath is surely a great idea considering they have managed to diasarm England both physically and mentally on almost evey single occassion they have met. Altho, knowin the ECB, theyre likely to mess it up somehow like they did with Troy Cooley. Also, I dont understand why Fletcher wants to persevere with Giles. The boy did good in the 2005 series but with his remodelled action, lack of form and age, he's not really a very promising prospect for England. Obviously, we should be looking at developing Monty and Mahmood especially, as they have both age and potential on their side.
Get a grip ECB!!!
Congrats Australia
This Australian side is an exceptionally good team but perhaps an crucial difference between them and the English side is that while the Brits 'wanted' to retain the ashes, the Aussies were 'determined' to regain them.
Complain about this postThe Aussies also seem to wear their baggy greens witha level of pride and commitment that it's not clear the English bring to donning the lions emblem.
The New Englaish coach should be appointed before the start of the one day series in OZ this week..
The new coach SHOULD be BRITISH.....He can call upon any number of EXPERTS of any NATIONALITY to help him in the various aspects of the game / psychology / fitness
Atleast that would enable the new person to be better prepared for the WORLD CUP in the WEst Indies.....
The world cup is our next most important goal
The English selection board should be appointed in time before the start of the tests in the summer
All English players must participate in the county cricket as much as practicable...and the weekly averages of Batting / Bowling / Fielding must be taken into account before the selection of each TEST in the summer...
AGE LIMIT must not interfere in the selection process as long as he has performed well in DOMESTIC cricket
I have read in the newspapers that there were 45 helpers in the English team....I trust the ECB reviews this URGENTLY along with say J.Agnew and Mihir Bose...In an ideal world these 45 should be young apprentices who are rewarded for their performances in the Academy or Schools or Unis to prepare themselves for a future generation...
In short the management of ECB has been the main fault for the present poor state of affairs of English cricket
Complain about this postChoof, way too much breast-beating & AUssie adulation here: Ponting's mind-games are still at work I see. 1) There's nothing wrong with the open-top bus rides last year, that was AFTER they won a series that had captured the nations attention from football, definitely something to celebrate.
Complain about this post2) The MBE's were unfortunate but were Tony's stunt. Not something you can say no to, & I remember the players being taken aback. There is someone who SHOULD hand his back. STep forward R. Branson: the urn is NOT a trophy but a symbol, stop trying to ingratiate y'self with the Aussie press to sell more domestic plane tickets & GET THAT URN BACK IN SAFE HANDS!
3) Ponting. Great batsman, alright captain (Boycott's Mum could captain that side), but miserable & patently has no life. Wish he was playing for us though.
4) Not the best Aus team just the worst English one? Beg to disagree, no-one but no-one could stand up to this lot, at the top of their powers - even the normally erratic Lee thanks to Mr Cooley. However '2nd best Test side' where did that come from?? See Ananda's post above about 2006 form for huge evidence to the contrary.
Now I've got that off my chest, am disappointed for all cricket lovers who saw a 1-sided series, team underdone & believing their own hype. Disappointed mostly with ECB, who need to lead with 'each person involved must ask themselves how they can contribute to England becoming no. 1 team in the world. Don't laugh: we settle for mediocrity too easily. For now, 1 game at a time, win the 1-dayers. But that's not what we're hearing. Bah. As Pom-in-Perth, I will watch my son's excellent U11 team go toe-to-toedish it out & wonder whether he would have got half as good by age 22 in the Old Dart. Bah...
I've got to say lets have some coaches , boycott for batting Botham for bowling. I love GB, podcasts have been great entertainment, well done the beeb. if only the team had the same thoughts
Complain about this postThe England won ashes in 2005 is just flash in the pan.The limitations of the england were exposed.Australia won the series in 2006 by excellent team work and good planning
Complain about this postThe England won ashes in 2005 is just flash in the pan.The limitations of the england were exposed.Australia won the series in 2006 by excellent team work and good planning
Complain about this postIs it not true that Britain is in the ugly grip of a celebrity cult? If so, in Australia the England XI seemed to be more concerned with their celebrity status than anything else. In stark contrast celebrity status was the last thing on the minds of the Australian team, who were determined only to win back the Ashes by playing relentlessly ruthless cricket, especially at the turning points in the Adelaide and Perth games. Celebrity status never won a Test Match!
Complain about this postI am afraid that I am starting to get very disturbed by the Chris Read fan club. Undeniably an excellent wicket keeper, I cannot see him ever being a good enough test match batsman. His body language at the crease shows that he himself is not confident in his batting - something that any bowler is going to pick up on. I think most test bowlers in the world will fancy their chances of getting him out cheaply. We have seen enough of him to know that he does not have the technique or the traits of a reasonable test match batsman. England will not become the number 1 test side in the world with a wicket keeper that can't make big runs at No 7.
Just to show that I am not a blind follower of Geraint Jones, he is currently not the answer either. Jones has made a number of errors over his tenure as keeper and does not now compensate by making runs at number 7. He has evidently lost all confidedence in his batting over the last 12 months and needs to be despatched to county cricket for a long stretch - strict instructions to start making big 50s and 100s. I can't believe that he was brought back in so early without any real signs of recovery for Kent. I can't imagine that Australia would have reselected Jones had they been in a similar situation.
This is a major problem area for England - one thing I am certain of is that selecting Read or Jones is not the solution to getting a number 7 that can average in the region of 35 to 45 in test cricket. James Foster worth another look? What are the other options?
Complain about this postAggers, as a valued member of the England press corps, please convey to Mr Flintoff and his team, we are hurting very badly as crazy FANS who stayed awake to all hours over the last month watching our boys take a hammering!. I,ve watched some sobering comments about what went wrong since Tuesday by many cricketing pundits Colville, Hussain, Willis,Botham, Atherton, and some very good reviews by Slater and Stuart Law from the other side. I am sure between MESSRS, Fraser, Martin-jenkins, Selvey, Marks et al we can help deliver a sober but comprehensive review of our cricket, (2003-07).We must take one series at a time and let the Ashes series not be the be-all and end-all. We must take on board the more extreme opinions of Boycotts of this world whom are real CREEKETERS at heart, and understand what is needed to succeed at this level. I am not a fan of knee-jerk clear them all out and start again. However, please can a fans forum be set up not only for us diehards, but for those England qualified cricketers who believed that they were going on a winter holiday to Oz, to come and face the music for those who forked out their savings to go and watch this debacle. Come on England, let's have a measured debate, not in the cloistered surroundings of The Long Room, but amongst the fans, up and down the country, at all the clubs, where the players will get the feeling that if they are not hurting, they will be after these hustings. Lastly, i love Team England, as fans we can learn a lot from defeat. Let's hope that the team were listening to Mr Pietersen, who gave a concise, true reflection of our performances, over the last month. Must do better and damn quick!! More appplication for both bowlers and batsmen, copying Mr Mcgrath is a good way to begin. Let's offer him a six month bowling contract after he retires, so we poach him like they did Cooley recently eh!!!
Phillip Alexander
Complain about this postThe big thing to come out of this test series was how badly the Aussies wanted to win after suffering defeat back in 2005. It seems England were just as prepared to lose - instead of an open bus trip around London celebrating the Ashes win and a week long drinking session - it should have been 'great we've won the Ashes back, lets sure we keep them in 2 years time' instead it appears that half the team treated the trip as a two month long holiday. Warne, mcGrath and Langer may have gone, but I gurantee that there will be plenty more to fill their boots, they may not be as worldclass, but they will be good and probably more than a match for our hapless tourists - if things don't turnaround then we will see a one-day walkover, NZ included - they are no mugs, they have just had a competitive series aginst Sri Lanka and will be looking forward into tearing into England - I live in NZ and my life has been hell since the Ashes series began - I made the effort to go to the Melbourne test, I could only get tickets for the 4th and 5th day - so how sick am I. We need to foster a continuing winning mentality, Vaughan's return will help, but I can't help feeling that Fletcher has had his Waterloo - why is he in charge anyway? our one day form has been disasterous under his tutelage, and he proclaimed that he would be here until after the world cup. Go figure!
Complain about this postMr Agnew, your definition of poaching is slightly different to mine.. Dictionary tells me that "Poaching - To trespass on another's property in order to take"...
Firstly it was reported to us that the ECB didnt want to come to the party on what Cooley wanted, and secondly Cooley is an Australian. Given the same financial considerations, I am fairly confident on which country he would want to bat for..
Most Aussies don't blame Cooley when we found out that he was intrumental in helping the enemy as we knew that he's entitled to try to secure his financial future.. I just wondered how many English fans would take the same view if the shoe was on the other foot ?
Complain about this postI would like to see australia compete in an ashes series shorn of their captain and influential batsmen, best pace bowler from 2005, opening batsman and their premier spinner (for the first couple of tests anyway)
It seems perfectly obvious to me that england without vaughan, jones, tresco and panesar were destined to struggle. Similarly if u remove ponting, mcgrath, hayden and warne (for two tests) the aussies would not have been anywhere near the awesome and dominant force that they were.
All these arguments from people like aggers and boycott of there being something fundamentally wrong with english cricket seem to lack weight when these points are considered - you dont become a bad team, or for that matter a bad country, overnight.
Complain about this postIt is such a pity that the lads were so shambollic after we had hoped for so much - i had expected us to get thrashed in 2005 and our victory then made me optimistic about our chances for the first time in ages.
I was so angry at the poor displays that I fell off a wall i had been sitting on and a passing contingent of soldiers were unable to help me with my injuries.
Complain about this postJonathan, think the presence of families is a complete red herring. Team spirit was completely absent but not because families were there. For a start they had a captain who seems incapable of communication (didn't speak to team before Adelaide batting collapse, didn't talk to Harmison about why he wasn't given the new ball, didn't talk to Mahmood about why he was bowl so little in his first test etc). Then there was the selection policy, in the first two tests incumbent players were dropped in favour of Flintoff's cronies, putting their noses thoroughly out of joint and the players brought in under terrific pressure to 'prove' themselves. Then when these players inevitably failed the others were brought back then they were the ones under pressure to prove their worth. Basically a good team who succeeded against Pakistan was demolished for no good reason. A couple of extra weeks for the players without family support wouldn't have made this better, I doubt anything could have.
Complain about this postI AGREE WITH AGGERS.
AUSTRALIA BATTING AND BOWLING HAD BETTER OVERALL AVERAGES THAN ENGLAND BEFORE THE SERIES STARTED SO EVERYTHING THAT COULD BE DONE TO BRIDGE THAT GAP HAD TO BE DONE ;
- PREPARATION - MORE TIME BOWLING AND IN THE MIDDLE AND ACCLIMITISING TO AUSSIE CONDITIONS - SO SENSIBLE IT DEFIES BELIEF IT WASNT DONE
- TAKING ONLY CRICKETERS WHO WERE PROVEN MATCH FIT BECAUSE ANY WEAKNESS IS HORRIBLY EXPOSED DOWN UNDER
-FREDDIE WAS OUR BEST ASSET BUT AS SOON AS HE WAS MADE CAPTAIN HE BECAME SLIGHTLY IMPOTENT - THINK OF THE FIRST TEST AT LORDS IN 06 WHEN HE STRUGGLED AS A CAPTAIN
SHOULD HAVE GIVEN IT TO STRAUSS AND TOLD FLINTOFF TO FOCUS ON HIS PROVEN ALL ROUND ABILITIES
- LEAVE THE WAGS AT HOME TILL AFTER FIRST 2 TESTS AT LEAST
- SHOULD HAVE HAD FIRST CLASS GAMES BETWEEN TESTS TO ALLOW BATTING AND BOWLING CORRECTIONS TO BE MADE
BIGGEST DISAPPOINTMENT WAS NOT LOSING - BECAUSE THAT WAS IN PART EXPECTED - BUT NOT HAVING A CLOSE CRICKET SERIES DUE TO ENGLAND UNDER PERFORMING
Complain about this postI've got to say lets have some coaches , boycott for batting Botham for bowling. I love GB, podcasts have been great entertainment, well done the beeb. if only the team had the same thoughts
Complain about this postWhen England won in 2005 we were very happy about the way our team played. This time round when this relatively inexperienced side seem to have lacked direction. i"ve listened to all the podcasts and every england player seems to not want to admit to errors or poor form. they also don't seem to have learnt very much and also seem to be short of ideas. As well as showing a loss of tecnique and an unwillingness to work on these points there must be alot of concern about the direction of this current team. the only players who can hold there heads up are Kevin petersien, monty and hoggard
Complain about this postYou were right on the mark with your comments. I was in the UK over your summer and the non selection of Monty and Chris read had me dumfounded. When I saw the preperation and selection I predicted the whitewash would happen. Lets hope they learn from their mistakes for the sake of competitive cricket.
Complain about this postAggers - I agree lessons need to be learnt and quickly but I may be in the minority in saying I am not embarrassed by the result. We faced the best team in the world in the own backyard with a team missing their smart-thinking captain, one of their best bowlers and their opening batsman.
Complain about this postWe should have done better in Adelaide and also Perth but these are the fine lines between winning and losing at this level.
I don't believe wholesale changes are needed - Fletcher should stay as coach. People say a coach has a shelf-life - try telling that to Alex Ferguson!
This is a different team to the one which won The Ashes 18 months ago but I believe that with a bit on tinkering this team has the potential to win the urn back in 2009
The most worrying aspect of this tour for England is to see the Aussies add three new players to their team (Hussey, Symonds and Stuart Clark) who fitted in so well.
When our boys returned home in 2005 to reflect on the lessons learnt there was no question that our system that pushes players to the brink of national selection was strong. In the future we may once again be over confident and under prepared as we were in 2005 but it is a small adjustment to fix that.
The same cannot be said for English cricket I fear.
Oh, and only send men who are prepared to give everything they have for their country. When an English commentator told us on national television that Steve Harmison would prefer to be watching Newcastle United at home than bowling for England we cringed in embarressment. In hindsight I don't know what worries me more, Steve's comments or the fact the commentator felt completely comfortable telling us!
Complain about this postYes Jonathan...it has indeed been another disaapointing tour of Australia not disimilar to the Hussain & Gooch led tours of recent years.
As well as the improvements you mention to the way overseas Tours are prepared for and conducted, I believe changes to the way the game is structured in the UK will help prepare English players better to compete with Australia. 2 things particularly stand out :
1) introduce a premier Regional competion in the UK with 6 teams (North, South East, Midlands..etc) to replicate Aussie state cricket. This will provide more career structure for players and more focus for national selection with the side to be selected from these 60 or so players rather than the 200 or so county players at present.
2) eliminate or restrict overseas players participation in county cricket to allow more chance for local players to take part and be progressed
Look forward to hearing from you.
Roger Pym
Complain about this postMelbourne
Much food for thought here.
It is worth reflecting on some of the post-mortem comments made by Andrew Strauss and Duncan Fletcher.
In response to a question about lack of preparation(Day 4 Ashes highlights on 成人快手 2), AS was of the opinion that the team had time to adjust to the Australian conditions. But on reflecting what could have gone better for England, AS suggested that the team had under-performed in the First Test. Is it any wonder they were under par when they were deprived of quality match-practice in the lead-up to the First Test!
In relation to Flintoff's performance as captain, DF feels that he found this responsibility a burden: ' It was a lot to ask of him, especially with a young, inexperienced side when you have to do a lot of captaining'. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but one has to ask,in the light of these comments, why on earth was Freddie saddled with the captaincy in the first place? With his experiemce of captaincy at county level with Middlesex, the appointment should have gone to AS.
If sufficient thought had been given to both these matters,it may well have made for a more evenly fought contest although, given the level of intensity at which the Australian team performed, I doubt whether it would have altered the final result.
Complain about this postVery well written article. Brilliant in fact.
Like all well paid jobs I suppose the over riding factor is that if I pay you a good salary then I expect the absolute best from you. You are professional. I expect it and I demand it.
It did not happen on this tour.
Just about every team member and associate let themselves down terribly. Dismally in fact.
ahem ..... I think I will leave Monty out of that, and I like Freddy for I think he was thrown to the wolves even by his own coach.
but I most certainly include Piertesen.
I am still astounded by the 5 who did not participate in the Christmas team luncheon (which is absolutely essential to team bonding) and to this day only Piertesen has been named. Why??
I also note the frequent talk about the ashes in 2007 and Englands expectations.
In truth the answer is as one 成人快手 correspondent wrote today ......
Forget about 2007...look after and nurture the next couple of years and 2007 will look after itself.
Build your base and make it very solid before you can build/rebuild the pyramid.
Note ....I am an Australian and I am not bagging England.... (Even though I did grow up when the "POMS" were our national sport. Sadly multiculturism here has deprived me of that luxury).
After all the greatest game of cricket ever in Australia is considered to be to play in the Ashes.
England versus Australia.
No more no less.
Come on England get your act back together again and your players just may experience the greatest game of cricket that they will ever play in is once again .......
ENGLAND Vs AUSTRALIA.
You invented it ....now sustain it.
Complain about this postBoycott for King..... NOT.
For all you out there who think this old, Yorkshire egotist has all the answers, hey, a wake up call. Yes, an entertaining commentator, yes, a knowledgable cricketer who's done it all before. Agreed.
But, his inter-personal skills are on a par with Genghis Khan. As Mark Nicolas (previously of UK Channel 5, now Aus Channel 9, and 成人快手) once said once, "Boycott is probably the rudest man you will ever meet..."
Listen, here's the news: Boycott's very rude, unpopular amongst former playes, old, from a different era and will not connect with anyone in the modern game. He should not be formally involved in English cricket, ever.
Please, leave him to commentating on TMS where he can do little harm, but perhaps entertain us with his ascerbic, curt remarks. He is NOT the selection or English cricket's solution.
The same can be said of David Graveney, also a candidate for the rudest man alive (listen to him being interviewed on 成人快手 radio, truly awful), he's terribly rude and short of class. His final involvement in English cricket is not far away I hope. An absolutely awful man; devoid of any real class.
ECB: a gravy train full of truly clueless, stuffed shirts, milking the pay, conditions and expense allowances - little surprise by the accountability - how ugly and greedy. Let's see them and hear from them all. Instill some commcercial context; deliver or resign.
Complain about this postThanks Aggers - really enjoyed your commentary on the ABC here.
I hope the ECB, management and players do take the lessons learned from this series, not only at the top level of the game but at the developmental level as well, with detailed programmes in schools and sporting clubs.
The competition to get into the first class, and test levels of cricket in Australia is down to the developmental work put in place at the school student level years ago. Australian cricket is reaping the rewards of this work now in both a player (talent development) and supporter level (people who may not play as they get older but have a continuing interest and love of the game).
Something that would not be likely to be shown in the lunch break sessions in UK is the children (boys and girls) on the playing surfaces - demonstrating the skills they are learning in modified version of the games during the lunch interval, and giving them a taste of what it is like to play on the hallowed turfs of our major cricket grounds. It gives them a reason to exercise, in addition to something to aspire to, and train harder for when they get home. I believe (through relatives and friends in the UK) that this critical element is missing from the game in England.
Not only this but the players contracted to the ACB attend these development and coaching clinics to share their experiences with the kids which shows the kids that their sporting heroes are not only accessible, and interested, but real people and good sportsmen as well.
Past players also help with these clinics - continuing to support and develop the game we love. Our 10 year old has had the privilege of meeting a number of current and former test team players through these clinics - and the advice and encouragement he has received increases his commitment to try his best at his cricket and enjoy playing.
Will just make one comment about Tom's posting, there were other players in the Aussie team who also delivered big innings when it mattered most - the team relies on a team effort (a fact mentioned by Warnie in his post match interview) and not the effort of one or two individuals - just have a run through the number of Aussie players that scored centuries in the series - they were fairly well spread throughout the order.
So at the end of the day I hope the ECB focus on the bigger picture and not just the 2009 Ashes campaign. There is a lot of cricket to play between now and then.
Clammander
Sydney
Complain about this postRight on the mark, Aggas. But if your not wearing any socks, it's a bit hard to pull them up. The English batting usually consisted of 1 to 6 and 5 number 11s. Contrasting with the Aussies who regularly had their last 5 wickets outscoring their first 5 wickets. In Melbourne, they were 5/84 and made over 400. In Sydney, they were 5/190 and made 393. In Adelaide, it did not quite do it but was close - they were 5/280 or so and made 513. Some of the best teams that I have played in have, also had good batting in numbers 7 through 11 in the team.
England really missed Simon Jones and the 2005 version of Freddie. From an Aussie point of view, they were the cutting edge in England's 2005 success. Freddie only occasionally reached his 2005 standards in the 2006/2007 Aussie season.
Complain about this postI totally agree with the comments made by Jonathan Agnew. Having just returned from three weeks in Oz, we were all terribly disappointed by the standard of cricket we watched at the MCG and the SCG. Having made such huge efforts in the summer to actually aquire the tickets for this eargerly awaited series, we all felt terribly let down.
Reading and viewing the pictures in the Australian press each day, the players certainly enjoyed themselves. We did wonder at times whether they considered it a job or just a jolly!
Back in November I happened to be in a London restaurant the night before the team departed. We happened to see one of the main players eating with his wife; I wonder if the Australian players would have done that the night before a major tour?
Complain about this postYours, very disappointed!
Quality post, Jonathan. Feel that you have highlighted most of the areas which contributed to the poor showing.
How do you feel Kevin Shine has shaped up? I feel quite strongly that just as Australia poached Troy Cooley, perhaps we should be trying either to recapture him, or to offer the role to Shane Warne full time. Having him around would be a phenomenal influence in so many ways: captaincy, bowling, intensity and dare one even suggest - sledging!
P.S. I very rarely agree with Geoffrey Boycott on anything, but I feel his suggestion regarding a separate coach for the one-day format makes quite a lot of sense.
Complain about this postIf they learn anything from this then surely one thing must be not to pick players that have shown no recent form.
Complain about this postIf this is the case then why have they picked Vaughan as captain who has been out for a year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Give the captaincy to Strauss.
Where can the England team drop off their MBEs, K McIver? At the Aussies' hotel, Circular Quay, Sydney!
Complain about this postthe 'wake up call' didn't last very long as England selectors, in their ultimate wisdom, only compound the folly of the ashes debacle by picking Vaughan to captain the one-day side. Here is a man who has been injured for nearly 18 months, not played any 'real' competative cricket, has only an average one-day account and yet is seen fit as to be drafted straight back into the team!! the mind boggles!! I give up with england and the selectors - until some serious changes are made in,possibly, a ruthless fashion there is no point in offering hope to this useless bunch of aristocrats and hangers-on!!
Complain about this postHi - Doctor Who from TV's Doctor Who here. As I am a timelord I'm often asked about the future. Well due the disappointment everyone is feeling at the moment I have travelled forwards in time and seen the result of the next ashes series - look away now if you don't want me to spoil it - Robert Key captains the team to an emphatic 5-0 victory. Interestingly he later finds a cure for cancer and has a hit west end musical written about his life.
Anyway I'm off to kill some daleks.
Complain about this postHi doctor who (788). It's great to see what the future has in store for me. And there's me thinking I'm a fat has-been - how stupid am i! I was always good at science when i was at dulwich college so thrilled about the cancer stuff (although i coudn't master trigonometry) - i find that plenty of sticky buns is rocket fuel for the mind! anyway, you've made my day..
love RK x
Complain about this postPOST 603 from Steve Perry.
It is nice to have some one with views on these comment boards borne of a sense of perspective, and the ability to cut through the many artificially generated and factually void rants and expressions of despair from so many other contributors.
Your comments sir are sentiments i share, and tried to put forward myself - strangely the bbc saw fit to omit them from public view.
I commend your level headed approach
Complain about this postSomebody on the aussie fanatics site questioned whether a lot of our players would get a game at state level in Aus. Annoyingly they have got a point - we need to look at the qualtiy of player we turn out for all UK sports and that means participation. We do not play sport enough in this country, that goes from kids upwards and the result is the 5-0 rubbish I have wasted my money on subscribing to.
We can all drone on about the structure of county cricket, preparation of the team etc etc but I think this is the root cause of all our sporting problems - not just cricket.
Right I am off down the pub.
Complain about this postTo all the people saying "Stop slating the England team" and "why not just accept we were beaten by an awesome Australian side", I'd just like to say that the Aussies weren't as invincible as some people are making out. I wouldn't say they're as good as the sides skippered by Steve Waugh.
In fact, bad as England were, they managed to make them look distinctly ordinary for brief spells (which makes it all the more annoying that they couldn't sustain those efforts).
Technically, I'd say they are only marginally superior to England (in all departments). What really made the difference was their focus, commitment and mental toughness.
They started well and were able to maintain a consistently high level of performance and they played as a team, for each other and for national pride.
Contrast that with the England players, half of whom were either unfit or out of form and played (for the most part) without any conviction or enthusiasm.
Yes, Australia were (and no doubt will in future be) very good...but they are certainly beatable.
Complain about this postAll this talk about MBEs - my initials are MBE - do I win 拢5?
Complain about this postPersonally, I'm glad Shane is now retired. I'm sick and tired of people shouting "bowling warnie" at me.
Its funny because my wife, before I married her, was Glenda Mcgrath.
Complain about this postWell, without Robert Key you guys took a bad beating - even though our beer tastes like it has come from the lavatory (or "dunny" as we say over here)
Anyway, I've lost my car keys, has anyone seen them?
Complain about this postI would be most grateful if you could confirm the itinerary when the Australians came to England in 2005, in relation to the warm up matches played, in addition to the physical time in the country prior to the first test. My recollection is that the Australians had much longer to prepare.
Surely it is the responsibility of the ECB to ensure that, in future, the England team get at least as much time as the Australians when they play abroad.
It would also be in the interest of all the sponsors, who clearly can make more money when the competition is competitive than not resulting in a greater public interest. Thus someone should press the sponsors to strongly advocate appropriate warm-up matches.
We must also ensure that we find batsmen who can bat in the manner of test batsmen and not always in a cavalier attitude that implies that they see a test match as a series of 5 one day games.
Complain about this postFirst of all; well done the Aussies! You鈥檙e a wonderful, brilliant nation and the most focused and accomplished sportsmen ever! However; you can鈥檛 expect our Mr Blair to recommend an Aussie for an MBE. Shouldn鈥檛 you give us some peace and start getting on at Bob Hawke?
Complain about this postHere鈥檚 an idea.
Strip the England cricket team of their MBE鈥檚 and put them on Ebay (Australian section) and give our Boys knighthoods, especially Collingwood for the wicked things S Warne said to him.
There鈥檚 just one more point. Warne retiring HA!! I await the first of many comebacks, which will probably be the next Ashes.
Spin us another Shane!!
I so agree with Phil (Brisbane) As an Aussie I wanted to see the poms get the hiding they deserved after the over the top celebrations they had after winning the Ashes in 2005. It was a real rub in the face to Australia and to be frank when you only just win you want to be carefull about lauding yourselves around the place as the best team ever. I was in England last year and could see then how poorly managed they where and the floggings they where copping. I had no doubt even back then that we would comprehensively beat them in the Ashes series.
All those people out there rubbing their hands together about the loss of Warnie and Pidge, dont get too excited. Australia encourages and nurtures its young players in its local cricket clubs and young talent is quickly pounced upon and set goals of building up playing experience and refining skills. Our state level teams I suspect could easily beat the English side at the moment as state level cricket is as hard fought as any international matches.
Our cricket stars are humble, down to earth people who know what their jobs are. (yes even Warnie) To play and play the hardest and smartest they can for Australia. Not for them the glossy magazine stories of flash houses or attending superstar parties. They are to busy practising in the nets or spending time with their families.
I felt very sorry for Freddie Flintoff as I could see he was going to bare the brunt of losing the Ashes when it realy was not his fault. He was way to inexperienced to fullfill the role of captain and it just shows the weakness of the English selectors to go for the popular choice of the hero from the 2005 Ashes rather than the person who was more experienced and capable in that position. Freddie needed to concentrate on his bowling and batting, instead while carrying an injury he was trying to keep a lacklustre and downtrodden team together and his form suffered as a result.
Its almost as though the English team thought it would be easy to knock over the Aussies a second year in a row. They did not seem to take into account the dogged determination and grit that our team has. Especially in the face of defeat. As Aussies we all knew that Buchanen and Ponting and the whole team would be working out strategies for playing harder and better as soon as we lost the Ashes in 2005. We had pictures published in our newspapers in 2006 of the so called 'dads army' team looking like adonises. Buffed, muscled up and keen to attack. The fitness of the current Aussie team is the best I have ever seen it.
England will not improve over night, they may not even improve for the next Ashes tests but they need to be working on that as of now if they expect to have any chance against Australia.
Complain about this postI think Jonathan is focussing too much on the preparation which is always an easy target for someone looking for a good moan because they can be overcooked or under cooked be missing their loved ones or distracted by them, (not distracted by them in 05?) so lets look at what I can see to be the more reasonable causes for defeat in that we were playing a better team who underperformed when we last beat them narrowly and we on the otherhand were missing nearly half of that team and the remainder didn't play as well as they could for various reasons, with the odd 3 exceptions. Even if the whole team had played to their full potential we would still have lost becuase this is a great Aussie team. I rest my case.....
Complain about this postAs a pom living in Australia,l have had to take heaps from my Aussie mates. Talk about embarrassment,lets face the truth we Engish are happy to come second at any sport.
Complain about this postThe first thing the ECB should do is try to get Marsh and Cooley back on board,these Aussies will put some steel into the team, if they are given a free hand.
I can't afford to keep loosing bets supporting the poms at sport.
Here is my English team.a.straus,(capt.)a.cook,i.bell,k.peiterson,r.key,f.flintoff,m.prior,
Complain about this posthoggard,harmison,paqnesar,anderson/darlrymle.
As an Australian cricket lover the series was very disappointing. Sure our tabloids and populists loved the fact that we thrashed the poms but what we really wanted was a real hard fight and a testing of just how good we really are.
Complain about this postWhen English cricket do their review they must take note to insist that on future tours of Australia they have at least three 4 day games against state sides. Serious games that will allow them to adjust to the conditions and test their wares.One of those should be against Queensland, so you are familiar with the Gabba and the local conditions.
Many Australian cricket fans would love to have such games again. Our season is quite distorted by the emphasis on meaningless one day games from January on. But more to the point from an Australian perspective, and it happens with every touring team that comes to this country, they don't get the preparatory games they need and start the test series too soft and then never recover. From an Australian cricket lovers perspective we want to see good contests not repetitive floggings.
Unless touring teams insist on this sort of lead in-program the Australian cricket officials will never offer it because it removes a natural advantage to the home side and it requires battling against entrenched commercial interests.
So it would help you and help aussie cricket fans if you insist on 3 tough 4 day games against Shield sides prior to the Brisbane test.
PS Thanks for the broadcasts Aggers, really enjoyed your calls
As a footnote to the occasional comment I have offered, as a Pom living in Australia, about the need to learn from what the Australians are doing right rather than going on about what England are doing wrong, can I add that when I took a walk around my local park at 9.30 this Monday morning, I came across a full scale cricket match already in progress between two immaculately turned out teams, fully umpired and so on. In front of a crowd of a hundred or so. The quality of the cricket looked pretty darned good and pretty darned serious with one of the fast bowlers on show well up to English county standard. And this for a park game played in the Australian summer holiday season.
Compare this with the ramshackle Saturday afternoon club cricket played in England by a mixture of schoolkids and old men, well past their sell by date but unwilling to give up their place in the team. As often as not scruffily turned out, with not all the players in whites, broken down sightscreens, decaying pavilions and so on.
Compare it too with the dying on its feet, one man and a dog English county game or the tip and run shorter games which are now the focus for the English game as a whole.
If I could find a bookmaker, I know who I would put my money to win/ keep the Ashes during the rest of the 21st century. And it won't be England.
Complain about this postBang on Aggers
Playing for England should be considered a privelige and wives and children should not be present until at least half way through a tournament at which time they could even be a boost but not before.
Complain about this postIts a job and a very well paid one. If they get homesick they do not have the right mental fortitude and therefore the right to pull on the jersey
I think the ECB should consider Performance based contracts. Small retainers and bonuses based on series wins, with higher sums paid for beating highly ranked sides. The rest of the world works this way so I can't see why cricket can't.
Complain about this postI agree with most of what Aggers and most posters on this site had to say. Firstly I think England were always going to be up against it going into an Ashes series in Australia poorly prepared, carrying semi-fit players against an Australian side totally focussed on taking England apart in all aspects of the game. You look at the Australian side and they look like a real team, a team totally driven by the desire to win and exceed at their profession. They look like they love it as well and the harder the battle the more they seem to love it. But isn't that what being a professional sportsmen is all about, apparently not if your're English. Justin Langer talked after his final innings in Sydney about the pride and privilige he feels at having been able to wear the baggy green cap and represent his country at the highest level. England's players could do well to listen his words, playing for England is not about ticker tape moments in Trafalgar Square or centre spreads in Hello magazine, its about making sacrifices so that everytime you walk out onto the pitch in an England shirt you can honestly say that you are ready, physically and mentally. And when you don't perform at least have the balls to stand up and admit it!
Complain about this postThe barmy army were fantastic in Australia but I am not sure if it is good for English cricket. Silent empty stands where the Army should have been I think would send out the right message to England's players, it would send out the message that we'll support you yes, but you have to earn it, don't take it for granted!!
I have said a lot more than I intended but it hurt when I had to stand their last week in Sydney and watch the Australians celebrate a well deserved victory, I only hope the England players felt the same and it drives them to never want to feel like that again.
I dont know why but all cricket lovers keep mentioning how well Australia played, ofcourse they played well they are the best players and fighters in the world of cricket. However, we keep forgetting how bad england players played. Getting out to deliveries 2 feet outside the off stump is not good bowling but bad batting.
If my memory serves me right, two of the tests were lost by england rather than won by australia only if england had the desire to win I am sure they could have managed a better result.
Complain about this postThe sight of the Pommie cricket team drunk on that bank holiday in Uk to celebrate their 2005 win is what motivated this glorious team of ours. Flintoff and Pietersen in particular stand out barely coherent and just able to keep their balance! They lost all credibility for many games to come. To think we had lost the precious urn to that rabble just fuelled the committment to regain the trophy as soon as possible.
Complain about this postWith all respect to the concern evidently expressed by posters here, may I remind you:
'If If's and But's were pots and pans
A tinker I would be"
The solution lies inside the Australian success,
NOT inside the English failure!
Remember also, 2009 is VERY near.
Get it right or it will only get worse.
Good luck or...God help you!
Complain about this postEnglish Cricket can never achieve or even attempt radical reform: theres just too many vested interests, too much history rusted on in the current culture and traditions: If change is to come it is not going to come from within.
What English cricket really needs is a Kerry Packer kind figure to come and blow the UK industry apart: Create a rebel competition outside the auspices of the ECB, a super league of just 6-8 teams and a rival English XI.
Get the backing of Sentana Sports, ESPN and, maybe Chanel 7 in Australia: play lots of 20:20 to get the crowds and attention:
Result: The English game would be thrown into a wonderful 'creative gale of destruction'; civil war, controversy, reputations made and lost; and when the inevitable reconcilation comes (ala WSC and ACB 1979) English cricket can emerge into a new paradigm where things are really possible.
As for the 2006/7 series? Didnt someone tell the English team that this was THE title fight? Do they understand that life is not a rehearsal? They didnt come to play; simple as that.
Complain about this postI would just like to add a few comments to these very interesting letters about the recent ashes whitewash.
Aggers mentioned discipline in his article, this for me is the crux of the problem. The role of captain is indeed a specialized job requiring man management skills, which were sadly overlooked by the ECB when they chose Flintoff over Strauss for the captaincy. I would think Flintoff is a great character to have around in the dressing room, but at some point the laughing has to stop and the Country's expectations must be put above all else.
My second concern is that the ECB should appoint a team spokeman and put a gag on the players appearing before the media, some of the comments made by relatively junior team members on various news programmes were frankly embarassing. the least said the better in these circumstances.
Complain about this postJohnathan, your comments are spot on. They apply to just about every country other than Australia. I am a South African and we have a similar problem with our side. There is so much going on off the field and so much over protection of the players that the real focus is no longer there. The focus should be on cricket, and winning matches. There is also a complete lack of pride in representing your country. As you mention the players are extremely well paid and should be held accountable. We have a top class excuse machine in SA - something we could probably export and the pandering to players needs is ridiculous. Professional sport is hard - physically and mentally - if that is the chosen profession, the players must get on with it.
Complain about this postIt is time the paying public started getting their money's worth.
are we watching the 20:20?
Complain about this posti have two comments:
i like james dalrymple, i even hink he should have played some part in the test series but he's just given australia a let off in the match by not catching cameron white. anyone can drop a catch but why is dalrymple walking in from a fielding position on the boundary? this is a schoolboy error. very poor.
second comment; we bat poorly, we bowl poorly, we don't even field that well so why is the only player that gets dropped regularly chris read??? duncan fletcher is starting to look like a clown on this point.
i happened to be tidying up yesterday and came across a book bought for me about the 2005 ashes victory. the back cover has a picture of andy flintoff consoling brett lee after lee's brave innings to save the edgbaston test. this was what the set the 2005 series apart - we didn't see any such spirit from the aussies this time around. they won but they can't claim to be sporting greats until they become a bit more sporting - that's the real point of any game.
as for the rubbish below from susan - lost credibility? motivted your glorious team?? did you see kevin pietersen bat in this series???
At 08:28 AM on 08 Jan 2007, susan wrote: The sight of the Pommie cricket team drunk on that bank holiday in Uk to celebrate their 2005 win is what motivated this glorious team of ours. Flintoff and Pietersen in particular stand out barely coherent and just able to keep their balance! They lost all credibility for many games to come. To think we had lost the precious urn to that rabble just fuelled the committment to regain the trophy as soon as possible.
Complain about this postGiven that England are away , were without their Captain , main opening batsman , key bowler and had 2 players in the squad that didn't play for a year and a makeshift Captain with a foot injury , I believe they should be praised , not knocked. I'm sure they really enjoyed the experiences over in Australia and won in 2005. If Australia had turned up without Ponting, McGrath and Langer , i'm sure the series would have been closer. Comments about other sports like Rugby have no relation here but the UK and English successes over the years are wonderful considering our focus is on more cultural and sports events are somewhat reduced in importance when compared to Australia. A very proud Englishman
Complain about this postForget all the excuses for our humiliating and frustrating 5-0 defeat against the Aussies.
Figures can be misleading but over a 5 match series the side by side averages for both sides cannot be ignored. While only 2 of our batsmen Pieterson and Collingwood averaged over 48, no fewer than 8 Australians had that distinction.
Australia鈥檚 Wicket Keeper Adam Gilchrist average of 45.80 included a top score of 102 n.o. and that inning alone was more than all the runs totalled by our own two keepers for the entire series. In fact they only scored 98 runs between them. Batting consistency is a necessary requirement for international batsmen and England did not have that. We also cannot afford specialist keepers who cannot bat.
Bowling is another matter. Only Symonds of the Australian side had a worse average than our entire bowling line up. I can name quite a few county bowlers, who while not considered England class would have certainly have bowled straighter and more economically than the lot we took out. At least they could do no worse.
I feel that Geoff Boycott as coach would probably be beneficial for one reason only. If I were an England batsman I would prefer to occupy the crease than be in dressing room having to suffer him slagging me off for hours on end.
Complain about this postGet our players to surrender their MBEs. They didn't deserve them and they should be forced to face reality.
Complain about this postThey put up a pathetic display of ineptitude, Flintoff more than anyone and they don't seem to accept that they have done anything wrong.
To get up each morning during the Ashes to yet another dismal display was heartbreaking for cricket lovers and it's about time our players showed some humility.
Aggers, spot on with the review and I can't believe some of the comments being made by England supporters (of which I am 1).
Wheeling out excuses like, no no.1 batsmen, missing key bowler, 2 players who hadn't played for nearly 12 months - It's not the aussies fault is it? They don't pick our squad for us!
Treschothick & Giles shouldn't have toured & S. Jones has been out for 12 months, long enough to find a replacement.
We failed to take 20 wickets in any match (including the tour matches), the team was under cooked & over hyped.
Australia are by far and away the best team in the world. When one of there batsmen gets out you know the next man can easily make a 50/100 all the way down to number 9, with England you know that the next wicket could lead to a collapse.
When the aussies bowl they generally have at least a ball an over which looks like taking a wicket, with us Hoggard needs to bowl for the entire match & we drop the first attacking spinner we've had in my lifetime.
Australia have batting quality and disciplined bowlers where as we have a collection of talented batsmen who frustrate and bowlers who are only in the squad because we can't find better.
Australia also have cover in every position with quality batsmen & bowlers just waiting for their chance - where as we have a 36 year old debutant wicketkeeper (who to be fair to him batted quite well!)
Boycott is a bit blunt in making his points but I think the reason it hurts is because he's generally spot on.
MBE = Media Bloated Ego
Complain about this postYes spot on Aggers, can't argue with any of that.
Did anyone else see the interview with Harmison just after they arrived in Australia? He was all negative and depressed, moaning on about what a terribly tough tour this was going to be, having to cope without his family and friends, quite pathetic. I knew we were beaten at that point and his first laughable over wasn't a surprise.
There are some very talented cricketers in the England squad, but they are starting to look a lot like the England football team, far too pampered and spoilt. How can anyone complain about how tough touring Australia is now compared to a few decades ago? Australia is a 24 hour flight away and their lifestyle and culture are very similar to ours. TV and the internet even keep you completely in touch with events at home as well. Imagine how Harmison would have reacted when it took months on a old boat to get to some far flung tours!
I felt sorry for Flintoff, not fully fit himself and surrounded by negative vibes from some of his senior colleagues.
Big lessons to be learnt, please don't fudge it guys!
Complain about this postJust to put my 2 cents worth in - England suffered from what I would call a superiority complex in so much as they thought they were better than they actually are. I have never seen players lauded so much for what I would term as a suspect victory in the 2005 Ashes. It was a victory non-the-less but what England should have done is shun the adulation, shun the media hype, shun the accolades and go straight back to work. No-one in their right mind could have expected the Aussies to simply sit back and ponder how they lost the 2005 Ashes, they did what a naturally competitive team would do - they went back to work. They asked serious questions of themselves, they ironed out the weak spots in their game and ensured that they didn't lose matches leading up to the 2006 Ashes campaign. Look at the stats - they'll tell you the story.
What England have done is in stark contrast, they've lapped up the bubbly, they basked in the open top buses, they've accepted honors that many of them really didn't deserve, afterall they ddin't win the 2005 ashes by 4 or 5 nil. England were simply bamboozled by the Aussies, its almost like Australia were lying in wait like lions ready to pounce back. Even with this decisive victory, you could still see that many of the Aussies weren't even all that interested in the celebrity side of things, they were more celebrating the departure of Warne, McGrath and Langer. Having just also watched the first 20/20 match, I can also see that England are now a spent force. Look out Engalnd - there's another trashing coming in them one-dayers.
Complain about this postI fully agree with Jonathan. I expected us to lose but not to be whitwashed, with four of the victories being so easy. If 2005 was good for the image of the game then this is a disaster.
I don't think our players are that bad, so searching questions have to be asked about the management.
Still, all is not lost for our Ashes men. Ex-England cricketers have excelled in the field of ballroom dancing. The stage is now set for several retired Australian stars to be thrashed by Messrs Gough and Ramprakash in front of a prime time TV audience many times that for late night cricket highlights. Come on 成人快手, what are you waiting for? Get whitewashing Michael Grade and his ITV!
Complain about this postThe problem is that we NEVER learn from our mistakes. 4 years ago we went to australia with injured players. We got hammered and were told that it would never happen again...until the next time.
All I hear is about the hardship of touring. I dont buy into that. These are young men in their 20s and early 30s in a career that will probably last 15 years at the most. They will earn in that time what many people earn in a lifetime. They will have many years to enjoy the fruits of their labour with their families. It's not too much to ask them to put up with some hardship if it is in the teams best interests.
Complain about this postApart from the fact that the 2005 win was overhyped it was still a win and we should have had the ability and guts to make a much closer series than we did. The fact is that since 2005 we have been mediocre in all of the test series since, but no-one cared as all we were doing was biding our time until the next ashes series. Even now Flintoff is talking about this group still being together in 2009. What about winning the next series?
The problems were in my view:
central contracts: how can you pick players for a test series who haven't even played any form of cricket for mths. I'm all in favour of loyalty but players out long term should have to prove their form on their return before they are selected.
Test match batting: When our batters are under pressure for 4 or 5 balls they get frustrated and play a shot that isn't there to play. test match cricket is supposed to last 5 days and test batting is as much about frustrating bowlers and building an innings as it is about scoring a quick 20.
Test match bowling: What happened to the value of a maiden over? Every ball doesn't have to be a wicket taking ball.
Fielding: where did all the zip go?
Taking responsibility: If i hear one more phrase about taking the positives and moving forward I'll scream. wouldn't it have been nice to hear "yes I threw my wicket away and i'm off to the nets to make sure it doesn't happen again tomorrow"!
Complain about this postIt's about time we stopped mollycoddling our top players and brought in some backbone.
Ken Barrington went out to bat with a Union Jack tattooed on his back and would rather die than give his wicket away. Brian Close bared his chest to the West Indian quicks and survived to tell the tale.
The bowling was atrocious, off line, off length and fast off the bat. How many of the England bowlers would you back in a bowl-off?
The whole team was a total embarrasment. We have the best travelling support of any cricket playing nation and one of the weakest motivated teams. There is no way that we are second to Australia as we will find out when we next play the West Indies, South Africa, Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka and New Zealand. One can only hope that Zimbabwe are soon back in the Test Playing arena.
Toughen up, stop moaning and get back the Ashes in 2009. Only this will partially wipe out the memory of this totally humiliating series.
We lost Rodney Marsh and Troy Dooley and from then on never looked forward. The sooner we adopt the Australian mentality that winning is what matters, not playing the game, the sooner we will turn things around.
We need an Australian on the selection committee and if attitudes don't change ideally an Australian coach.
If players want to be with their families, leave them at home and put them out to grass on the County Circuit. Take only players who are willing to put cricket first, second and third. We need players who keep their mind on the game, not their bank ballance and insurance policies.
As an aside, when are we going to stop the Australian squad acclimatising to our conditions on the County circuit, before the Test Matches . We should only be bringing over the has beens who are still an attraction for the public and can also help the younger players in terms of competitiveness and attitude. Leave the fringe and Squad players in Australia.
Incidently, how many English County players ever make it into the State cricket? Answers please on the back of a second class stamp.
Finally, it is about time that the players realise that they are not just playing for themselves, but for thousands of England fans throughout the world, who face every ball and play every shot of a Test Match and curse the fact that they were never tallented enough to reach that honoured position.
We made a good 'Old' Australian team into a Legend.
Complain about this postThe whole sorry sage smacks of one thing - complacency. Too many of the players on this tour are still living off the 2005 victory. If we come away from this tour learning one thing it is that great teams do not rest on their laurels after victory; they actively seek to take their game to the next level.
If the same approach regarding the discipline in the squad, family members being present (in what other arena of WORK apart from English international sports tours do people get to bring their families along?) etc etc is taken next time we will get thumped again, regardless of the fact that Australia have lost Warne, Mcgrath, Martyn and Langer.
This has been such a debacle, not the loss itself but the manner of the failure, that somebody's head has to roll.
Complain about this postEngland's cricketers are already looking forward to playing a weakened Australia in the next ashes series. So without Warne & McGrath & Langer & Martyn & Lee etc This 20/20 game should be a walkover for you Poms...
Complain about this post...Oops sorry my mistake
Being a cricket tragic from OZ like I am, I have just watched the 20/20 game and it's more of the same. I was at days 2-3 4 of the Sydney test and what I saw was the continuation of a ~12 month plan to demorilise English cricket. It's not finished yet! I think it boils down to a few fundamental problems:
After 2005 the English team for some reason thought that their victory was conclusive. It wasn't! A single umpire decision would ( and did) turn it one way or the other. But that's OK, someone has to come out in front and this time it was England AND GOOD ON THEM! - However consider this:
Many OZ players had a bad tour and it was just the kick in the a--- that we needed. All us cricket tragics talked about the 2005 result being the best thing for us and that's the way it's turned out. Don't blame your players or coaching staff or anyone else. This Australian side is one of the best - if not the best - cricket team to ever grace a cricket ground. It's no disgrace to be beaten by a great team - learn by it.
However - if I can add some comments that may be somewhat controvercial but not intended.
Freddie is a great guy and the Oz public love him for his natural talent and professional attitude. What moron appointed him captain over Strauss - or anyone else for that matter? (Freddie should have known better that to accept)
Jones was hopeless on the last series. What's he doing here?
Pietersen is a great talent but he wouldn't make it in to an Australian side because he's a wanker! (expression) Is that a problem with him? or the English cricket system?
Giles? Oh well, what can you say. Love Monty - what a character. Time will tell how good he is.
Take that aside and what we had was a mental approach that is focussed on not beating an opponent - but demoralising them. We have had some great capatains in the last 20 years but none of them is better at destroying competition than Ponting! Looking foirward to 2009 guys!
Complain about this post"Compare it too with the dying on its feet, one man and a dog English county game or the tip and run shorter games which are now the focus for the English game as a whole."
And Pura Cup games are more healthily attended, eh, Ben? Sorry, I've watched domestic cricket all round the world and have found that domestic first-class cricket everywhere attracts only moderate attendances.
But 'moderate' is a long way from the 'one man and his dog' cliche that you've trotted out. County championship attendances have actually been rising over the past few seasons. Many festival games can draw 1500 on their opening days and, at Tunbridge Wells and Guildford in recent summers, it's been difficult to find a seat amongst the scores of kids in attendance. As for 'dying on its feet', it remains the only domestic competition anywhere on the planet that can attract a wide range of top class players from around the world.
I appreciate that, living in Australia, you don't get the chance to support English first-class cricket in person, Ben but, if you're going to sit in judgement on it, please at least get some facts right.
Complain about this postthe problem with english cricket (and english sport in general) is not so much the performances as the level of expectation. for some reason, the english public expects it's sportsmen and women to compete on a par with the world's best, when england is at best a third-rate sporting entity.
Up until WWII, when most of the rest of the world got by on fried entrails with the occasional steamed lettuce leaf, England could pretend to be up there with the best. But since then, the rest of the world left english food to the english and began to apply technology to sport (surprise surprise) and left england floundering in its own unsightly trough, frothing at the mouth about what was going wrong with english sport.
to look at what is wrong with english sport, look to english transport, english medicine, english education and english politics- all mired in unworkable systems that were designed for the Victorian era.
read many of the previous posts and you soon realise that there are only two disciplines in which england is the unrivalled world champion- whingeing and binge-drinking.
Complain about this postI listened to the ashes every single night/morning and always when we started to do something positive the next session was a total collapse
Ive never been so down hearted and annoyed after these events kept repeating them selves....i noticed my self yelping in frustration when this kept on happening
P.S I love many sports but i know once and for all which is my real love after i felt the pain of this...
Complain about this postI agree with Mike Bushell's point that English expectations are hopelessly unrealistic but I can't agree with the sociological reasoning behind England's supposed sporting failure.
In fact, I'd argue that England's sporting profile is very similar to most other aspects of its national profile - amongst the best but rarely the leaders. In terms of economy, influence, standard of living, military, science and arts & literature, Britain remains amongst the world's leaders, but it is possibly only in the field of popular music that can claim to be number one.
England's/Britain's sporting profile is a reflection of this. How many other nations compete regularly in the three big World Cup Finals, have nationals in the major tennis and golf slams and in most of the Olympic disciplines? Very few, but Britain/England does regularly - rarely with stunning success but consistently with a presence.
I'd say there's another factor in Britain's sporting non-dominance (possibly belied by some of the bellicose ranting on this board) and that's an inherent perception that, ultimately, it doesn't really matter. Sport is important because it's unimportant. It's enormous fun and it's a good crack to see one's club/country win but, at the end of the day, Britain's national identity has never depended on sporting prowess and there are hundreds of more important matters to worry about anyway.
Complain about this post"...but it is possibly only in the field of popular music that can claim to be number one".
Sorry, Rob, but I must have missed that edition of "Scientific NME Monthly". By what criteria is this accolade awarded- most boy bands per head of population? Most outlandish costumery?
The Czech republic has some wonderful music, massively popular in the beer halls of Prague and the discos of Ostrava- just the other day I was reading it was voted number one most popular music in the Czech-speaking world.
Indeed, England's place as the number one popular music nation in the world may well be disputed by its fearsome foes (the Czech republic amongst them) in the Eurovision song contest.
Complain about this postI'm sure the Czech Republic enjoys a thriving popular music culture but, if it doesn't venture outside the beer halls of Prague, it's effectively the Czech version of New English Folk.
The criteria for which this accolade is awarded includes most innovative high quality popular music adopted internationally, and a passionate hunger throughout the major cities to showcase popular music from around the world. When the Czech Republic comes up with anything as globally embraced and influential as Merseybeat, Punk, Led Zep, Joy Division, The Smiths, Indie Acid, and (although it grates to include them), Radiohead and Coldplay, I'll reconsider its candidature.
Complain about this postEngland's priorities always seemed to be the Ashes NOT the next tournament.
Australia since 2005 honed an attitude and ruthlessness, with every game and series.
England since 2005 have seemed to drift, and thought they could simply turn the (2005)switch on in Brisbane.
The Australians had moved forward with each and every game and series. The 2006/07 Australians were simply ready.
It all come down to preparation and attitude.
Complain about this postIf the players and coaching staff don't get this right who else to you blame?
Aside from the views already conveyed by the cricket world, I feel the main differences were captaincy, without Vaughan as leader and batsman we were always going to struggle.
The burden of captaincy for an already unfit Flintoff sadly affected his perfomances. No Simon Jones and an out of form Harmison returning to fitness left us with a severely weakened bowling attack.
In addition the absence of Trescothick was also a factor, a seasoned opener capable of taking the attack to the Australian bowlers. The form of Strauss was also affected by some poor umpiring decisions. These usually balance themselves during a series but not this time.
Australia on the other hand had Clark instead of Gillespie and Hussey instead of Katich, say no more.
There were crucial moments in the series where we failed to turn the screw & Vaughan's presence would have made the difference. In Adelaide when Australia were 65-3 in their first innings & England's batting in the 2nd innings - Vaughan would not have thrown his wicket away. A draw in that game would have changed the whole series. This already vunerable England side without Vaughan could not afford to go 2-0 in the manner they did. Any chance of using the mental edge from 2005 was gone.
Their were other moments where Vaughan's captaincy would have been crucial but the series was already over..
This England team is not as bad as everybody thinks. It is certainly capable of competing against all other test nations home or away, but not with Australia who are light years ahead of all other teams in the world today.
At the end of the day if we were going to compete with Australia, then earlier in the year (whilst their were good individual performances) we would have defeated Sri Lanka easily and overpowered a weakened Pakistan side at home.
The signs were already there, in the absence of key players, injuries and a solid Captain, England had lost a bit of toughness since the start of the year and were not playing at their best.
In realisation of this, our preparation should have been doubled in readiness for a hungry revenge driven Australian team.
We had 3 years under Vaughan with England fighting in every test and getting results. Now he is back I expect England certainly at Test level to defeat every team in their path.
Bring it on 2009! We will get the Ashes back!
Complain about this postHi Jonothan
Jst wanted to ask a quick question
I was there at Old trafford when Warne bowled the ball of the century against Gatting and I was also in Sydney when he got his final ashes wicket!
I just wanted to know how many other people were at these 2 monumentous occasions??
Not many I reckon!
Thanks
Rob
Complain about this postHi
I think the England coach is the disaster - everybody in Nz is saying why didnt Monty Panesar bat higher - we all could see he was better than 11 - and then Fletcher finally does it when its too late - a bit like the first and second test - why didnt he play Monty - he is the disaster not the England cricket team - they played well - not good enough but you are playing Australia - get rid of your coach and you will do well
Complain about this postI am a Pakistani living in USA and after Pakistan I support the England cricket team. The difference between England and Australia was not 5-0 but the loss was due to lot of off the field mistakes that they committed.
The selection left a lot to be desired. Playing Giles and dropping Panesar for the first two test was inexplicable. Bringing in Jones when he was not in the tour party must have been demotivating for Read and did not work as such. No initiative or any courage was shown by the selectors. They could have bought Broad, even if only to invest on the future but they were scared to take the initiative.
Sajid Mahmood was played than hardly given the ball. The rudderless Harmison was pampered to the extent that he became damaging to the cause of the team. When they needed a replacement for Trescothick they did not get a player who is inform and has shown it by scoring a load of runs.
In my opinion its the selection which caused this catastrophe and their further penchant for non-specialist bits player are going to caost Enfgland dearly.
Complain about this postYes I am an Aussie and yes you're all correct the current English side needs some work.
I was at the SCG watching the Aussies drive home the sword on the 4th day and one thing I was very impressed by was the standard of sportsmanship shown by the English side.
These guys have copped an absolute thrashing on and off the field from anyone and everyone and yet they have kept their heads up and have continued to play as best they could. Even the English supporters have been dignified in defeat.
While sportsmanship on its own may not win matches I have pointed to the example set by the English team as something my 2 cricket mad sons could aspire to.
Lastly us Aussies also know the only way the English team can go is up!
Complain about this postPart of the problem are the central contracts which gives too much security to players who have less incentive to do well because whatever happens they still have a job. It also means that they are not exposed to regular competitive cricket at county level when they need to find form or are back from injury.
Complain about this postI am in agreement with all you say. Only the likes of you will know what went on behind the scenes.
I am apalled that Harmison went off the field in the first practice matchafter five overs to put up his feet. He was totally under preapred. Why did England play him ? couldn't Jon Lewis play ? I am no fan of either but from what I can remember Lewis bowls a tighter length even though at a lower pace.
Why did Freddie play if he wasn't fully fit. Why can't the players be honest and opt out if they can't perfom for their (our) Country ? Was he the right choice for Captain ahead of Strauss?
Why did Giles come on tour if he had worries about the health of his good wife ?
Who was trying to fool who here ?
As you rightly say let this be a proper incisive review.
I hope this means looking at the role of coaching and selection set up as well.
We need new faces not only behind the wickets but in front and on the sides and on the balcony to guide ourselves out of this terrible mess.
We shouldn't hold on to any sacred cows in this quest.
Regards
Complain about this postNU
geoffery boycott has identified the problem, it is the way England prepare for test matches.
the ICC's insistance upon allowing so many one day games is only about money!
England have to protect the test match players from these pointless one dat games by having two separate teams. this would give give the test players more rest, and more time to play four day games for their clubs.
whithin a few months, the winner of the fothcoming one-day series and the winner of the worl cup will be forgotten, but England's 5-0 defeat will be remembered11
Complain about this postI find it very hard to understand why there has not been a single Sussex player in the England side chosen for th Australian tour.
After all, Sussex have clearly been the best English county side for the past 4 years, and in 2006 won both the main competions.
Some would say that Sussex's success has been due in no small part to their overseas players, which is true, of course, but there are also very good English players in the side.
Without doubt. Chris Adams is the most successful captain in county cricket in recent years. He is also a very good batsman. so why is he not even considered?
James Kirtley was man-of the match when he last played for England and achieved the same distinction in the big final at Lords, yet again he is passed over.
Perhaps the most unlucky bowler of the lot is Jason Lewry, so consistent, and bang near the top of the '06 bowling averages, way above most of the England players, but again - not even given a mention.
Mike Yardy has philosophically dismissed his disappointment at not being selected, and is very positive. Hopefully he will show just how good he is in the forthcoming "A" tour.
He played every well in the recent one-day series, topping the bowling averages and taking a catch in one game which was described on teletext as being "sensational". He also batted very responsibly.
I wonder how often in the past, the team winning both major County Cricket titles has not had even one representative in the national side.
Complain about this postWe need new direction from the the top. I feel a coach like Bob Woolmer is the ideal replacement for Fletcher.It is bad time that he resigns.
Complain about this postEngland greatly underestimated Australia's determination in regaining the Ashes. If they were aware they would have come to Aust right after the Champions Trophy and would of had several 5 day warm up matches. Flintoff had too much on his plate.Strauss and Bell underperformed, only Collingwood and Pieterson caused Aust Concern. Monty should have been played in Brisbane because Aust did not know how to play him and Aust would have been on the back foot. England won't beat Aust or NZ in the one dayers and then have to back up in the World Cup, where they have a warm up match against Aust. Then their first match is up against NZ. Alot of Hard Work for England over the next 5 months.
Complain about this postDespite the abysmal result, I don't think that the gulf between the two teams in terms of playing ability is as wide as it may seem. Much has been said about the preparation (or lack of preparation) and I think that this is probably the key to the failure - had the English bowlers been fully prepared, I think that they may bave made a contest of it. Obviously other factors come into play, for instance the mental toughness of the Australians, injuries and poor selection amongst the English and a puzzling selection of a stand in captain.
From an Australian point of view, I was thrilled by the outcome, but bitterly disappointed by the lack of a contest. For my money (and despite the outcome) the 2005 series was the best and most exciting series that I have ever witnessed.
Given that there are only six first class teams in Australia, I would have thought that a first class game against each of the States would be not only possible, but highly desirable. At least three of those games could be played prior to the first test - giving the touring team a decent build up. It would also give the general public a good opportunity to see the tourists in less crowded stands.
If all six states had a crack at the tourists, it might even be possible to award competition points to ensure that the contest is serious. In addition, the concept of having super-regions in the English competition might allow a similar concept to be adopted when Australia (or other countries) are touring England.
Obviously the World Cup makes scheduling of such matches more difficult, but from the look of the current England team they need more cricket, not less!
BTW, I just had a look at The Urn. My first impression wasn't so much of how small it is (and it is very small) but more of how shiny it is! It's currently at the museum at the Melbourne Cricket Club along with the Waterford Crystal trophy.
Bring on 2009 and a new contest!
Complain about this postI really can't understand how Nixon has suddenly got pushed in over Read for the Twenty20 and now the one dayers. Is Read ever going to get a chance (more than 3 consecutive games in any format) in the England team?
Complain about this postAll sounds pretty fair - but for one thing: You fear for England in the ODI series. As an Aussie, if we were in the same boat, we'd bristling with determiniation and expecting to do well (even if that wasn't realistic).
Maybe there's a bit of a cultural difference with out outlook when it comes to a competitive situation?
I hope England does well nonetheless!
Complain about this postMy gripe goes back to the summer when Andrew Flintoff didn't play cricket due to injury and surgery. How can it be then, that the elected England captain was seen on Sky Sports' Cricket am show each Saturday morning trying out various sports, including basketball and boxing, both excellent recouperation for cricket! If he was fit enough to do these why couldn't he play? Also I bet he still got paid from Central Contract.
Complain about this postAshes 2005 not gone to anyone's head?
Scotland for the World Cup! I really feel we've a good chance of getting somewhere - England are playing like a bunch of lassies....bring them on!!
Complain about this postEngland need Big Ben for a wake up call....
Complain about this postI fully agree with jonathan's views. Also I would like add that England should take every country seriously and go out there to WIN. Learn that winning habit. Let it be against a weak or a strong team. Losing to Sri Lanka last summer should have been a wake up call. I sincerely hope positive steps are taken to put England on the up.
Complain about this postCoach and Captain of the England team don't know how to motivate his player.senior should take more responsibility so that new players can play around them.England need some different ideas some different plans,which they can get from a new coach.
Complain about this postA lot has been said about the great English Victory in 2005, but was it? England won the series 2-1 and in the vital test where the final Australian batsman was given out on a controversial decision, they were a mere 2 runs short of victory which would have given them a
2-1 series win. So the ashes series was really won by England by only a few runs and the decision could have gone either way. Not an overwhelmingly convincing result in my mind. The English media obviously saw it differently.
For the 2006 Ashes series, England went to Australia underprepared and overconfident. They were victims of their own press and publicity, they became legends in their own minds, and thought they were undefeatable.
Please don't blame the loss of Troy Dooley as an excuse, and how could Australia 'poach' him from England, he's Australian in the first place.
Give credit where credit is due, Australia were just too good on this occasion and outplayed and out manouvered England in every department. They might be called 'Dad's Army', but by gee they could play cricket.
England's turn will come again in 2009, but first they have got to get their heads down out of the clouds.
Woodsy
Complain about this postAs an Aussie who watched in the Old Dart last year as our team came crashing down, I find the current English team grossly under rated by its home crowd. England were 'in it' in the second and third tests....scoring 350 in a fourth innings against Warne et al is no joke. Perth was freakish and Adelaide was just trying to get there from too far behind.
Complain about this postTests four and five were only "Carnival". The series was gone. You guys did better than you seem to realise; sometimes it is worth looking at what actually happenned.
Be disappointed of course; but don't trash this team of yours when it isn't warranted.
Greg
This is what my colleague sent around the office here in Brisbane...(an England supporter)
Complain about this postA seven-year-old boy was at the center of a Parramatta, NSW (New SouthWales) courtroom drama yesterday when he challenged a court ruling over who should have custody of him.
The boy has a history of being beaten by his parents and the judgeinitially awarded custody to his aunt, in keeping with child custody law and regulations requiring that family unity be maintained to the degree possible.
The boy surprised the court when he proclaimed that his aunt beat him more than his parents and he adamantly refused to live with her. When the judge then suggested that he live with his grandparents, the boy cried out
that they also beat him.
After considering the remainder of the immediate family and learning that domestic violence was apparently a way of life among them, the judge took the unprecedented step of allowing the boy to propose who should have custody of him.
After two recesses to check legal references and confer with child welfare officials, the judge granted temporary custody to the English Cricket Team, whom the boy firmly believes are not capable of beating anyone.
England is doing well in Australia. There is nothing to panic. It is difficult to play cricket in Australia.
Complain about this postGreat commentary this Ashes tour Jonathon especially playing straight man to Kerry O'Keefe. Pity you are not here for the one dayers - though how much can one person take. Pity about the result from your perspective but I think most Australians expected that our team would regain the Ashes as their pride was dented. Their 2005 loss was a good thing for the Australians but it seems not a great thing for England and their management. Also wanted to say how enjoyable Ben Dirs text commentary has been - I was almost glad when England beat Australia the other night given Ben's pessimistic outlook at the start. After watching England get their first win on tour at Bellerive, you should promote a test match for Hobart during the next Australian Ashes tour. Tasmanians also turned out in force to see the Ashes Urn - 19,500 people over 4 days which beat most of the larger capital cities. Great website as well 成人快手. As for this match Eng v. NZ - I'm torn as Australians love any contest between these two nations. Cricket Australia would probably prefer England from a ticket sales point of view in the final but NZ doing very well at present in chasing down 270. Great to see Fleming getting some runs at last.
Cheers,
CC
Complain about this post