³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ

Given all the things I've read/heard about Mr Adam's involvement in the so called "armed struggle", I can't help but feel extremely cynical.

Well, that's what they said about the Impostle Paul, wasn't it? If Gerry is getting a bit more philosophical in his old age, that's fine - he'd be welcome to join the commenters on here, I imagine.

Gerry the Philosopher and Documentary Presenter? Damn.

John -

what did you say to make the moderator quit?!!

The Mod loves me. We're tight. :-)

Gill also referred to Adams's 'self-serving, reversible morality'. He wanted to bask in the blessing of the peacemakers - "I helped to bring peace to Ireland" (ugh!) - while refusing to turn the other cheek, forgive his enemies or admit that the IRA campaign was in any way immoral.

Adams, the 'political activist', also said that he is 'perfectly at peace' and didn't have 'blood on his hands', a statement which sounded as convincing as an Iris Robinson lecture on marital fidelity.

Gill also stated that the programme was a fascinating example of the power of religion and scripture, which could be taken to mean that even groups that apparently breach scriptural commandments will seek scriptural underpinning for their actions. As far as Irish militant republicanism is concerned, there is nothing new in this. What Conor Cruise O'Brien called a 'sacral' nationalism has run through violent Irish nationalism at least since 1916. The Easter Rebellion was deliberately chosen at that time. Pearse talked about 'blood sacrifice' as a 'cleansing thing' and about Ireland's 'holy nation'. He identified the nation with Jesus Christ and, though crucified, it would have its resurrection.

Bobby Sands wrote poetry in which he too believed his sacrifice repeated that of Jesus. He wrote of walking the lonely road like that of Calvary to 'take up the cross of Irishmen who've carried liberty'.

In The Bible (programme not text!), Adams presented himself as a man of God but clearly, though Jesus did have his uses, he couldn't quite go the whole hog with his pacifism. In the circumstances, 'non-violence was not an option'. Poor Jesus! He would have been spinning in his grave - if he had one.

If anyone wants proof that Holy Writ can be used to justify any brand of bigotry, intolerance, killing or inhumanity, then Adams's £10,000 worth of smug self-justification is a prime example.

Kill in the name of Jesus? If he were a Moslem, we'd call him a jihadist. When the US pulls out of Iraq, will the Shia and Sunni start a war the way the Catholics and Anglicans fought in Ireland? Will it last 400 years? Will America arm whichever side is losing they way it did in the 1980s? Is Jerry Adams worried about going to hell for all the murders he directly or indirectly had a hand in? What would Jesus have made of Jerry Adams? I'll bet Pastorphilip would have an opinion. What does Jerry Adams have to say about the pedophile priests and their bishops in Ireland. Had his side won, NI might have suffered the same.

#7

Yet more racist comments on the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ. Is the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ a pro racist organisation?

If you are posting on religion at least give it dignity and spell it right. I never new a Jerry Adams to big a leader of the Provos, is he new?

DisgustedinLONDONderry, Markie may be a silly chappie who rarely sticks his wee head out of his trailer (other than to go to the store to buy crates of Twinkies and Bud), but I don't think you can accuse the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ of being a pro-racist organisation, or even Markie of being racist, on the basis of his offbeat comments, or the fact that the moderators have the fine offices to allow them through their filter. It's comedy - don't try to over-analyse.

#7

N'Ireland was as bad if not worse for different reasons and actions by others in authority.

#9

You say Londonderry, I say Derry, but my username is DisgustedinDERRY, please have the manners to address me as such. I wouldn't refer to you as Hellpollutant so give me the same respect back, otherwise keep your opinion to yourself!!!

Helio post # 9

That was out of character for you.

Ambiguity is the tool of the Devil.

Interesting that Christ had both a terrorist and a "customs man" as disciples.

Simon the "zealot" was from the Jewish resistence group, and the tax collector for the occupying force was Matthew.

Could it be he meant to communicate something to us by including two such contrasting political characters among his closest friends?

Christ diagnosed Israel's ills as spiritual at their root, not marxist.

He came to deal with sin once and for all as the long promised passover lamb.

Had he intended a physical revolution he would not have allowed himself to be taken prisoner, which he long predicted and submitted to willingly.


His directions to care for the poor are very real, but are an implication of his core mission, not the mission itself.

And scandalously, he commended the faith of an officer in the Roman army as an example to the faith of Israel, without a word of criticism ref the politics of occupation.

Throughout the history of the OT which Christ revered, it was clear that Israel was attacked and defeated by her enemies only when she turned her back on God.

Finally, interesting that John Wesley blamed the tough reception British Christianity got in Ireland on the impact of British oppression and the penal laws.

OT

Ìý
I thought this a very interesting programme. There can be no doubt but that the self-interest of Ulster industrialists and land-owners sustained for over fifty years a manifestly unjust and undemocratic society in Northern Ireland.Ìý

They upheld the status quo ruthlessly, using an armed police force and its unaccountable adjunct, the B Specials to subjugate the Roman Catholic proletariat and exploiting the Orange Order to corral the Protestant working class.Ìý

I do not think, given the early Paisley and his ilk, that change would or could have been swift and I can understand, though not condone, the decisions taken by intemperate young men to resort to an armed struggle for freedom.

Gerry Adams played his part, whatever it was, in the early stages of the conflict and he takes responsibility collectively with his colleagues for the actions of that time. It is important to recognise the part he played too, however, in bringing to this place the degree of peace we now enjoy. We should all of us celebrate that role.

I was encouraged by how he recognised that not seeking vengeance is enough of step to expect people to take - it is a realistic position.

The programme was as much about Gerry as Jesus, I am not sure I got any amazing insights into the mind of Christ but I do understand Gerry Adams better, I can maybe begin to respect him more, and that can only be good.

ÌýÌý

My goodness - someone's touchy, eh? DiD, I was simply fishing to see what would come up, and you performed like a star. Well done. I don't really feel the need to apologise to someone who has accused another poster (and indeed the ³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ) of "racism", even when that poster is our own Markie (and the rest of us are used to him by now).

If it makes you feel any better, I also routinely use the toponym "Derry", I self-identify as Irish, and carry an Irish passport. Indeed, I'm more Irish than Gerry - at least I have an Irish *name*... And as an Atheistic Christian, I think I know Jesus a wee bit better than he does too...

Heliopolitan

Point taken, and if it means anything I apologise!!!

DisgustedinDERRY, no problem - welcome to our fun little world :-) If anyone should apologise, it should be me; I was gratuitously using you a/ to poke fun at NI stereotypes, and b/ to stick the boot in on Markie (whom I like a great deal of course) livin' the American Dream. Stick around, keep posting, and don't have too thin a skin on here!

Cheers,
-H

youre such a tease helio :)

I was unable to see this particular episode involving Mr Adams contribution. I suppose he chose to see the similarities between he own 'Struggles' and those of Christ. Christ often moves in people in unique and profound ways. My view is that Mr Adams can hold any view he wishes to hold. Any deviation from the real 'Truth' i.e the love of mankind through the sacrifice Christ made in death, is something he will have to answer for after his death. He lives his life, has his views, commits his sins and answers for them just like everyone else will. That's the cold hard fact of it all. I for one will pray for him. He should take wisdom from John Newtons 'amazing Grace'. There is no such thing as an 'Armed struggle' only a harming one.