Tuesday, 24 July, 2007
- 24 Jul 07, 03:44 PM
From tonight's presenter
Floods
The news machine tends to embrace floods for as long as the waters stay high, the power stays off, the pictures are dramatic and the streets are wet. But what happens when things appear to return to normal?
Today, the sun is out in parts of the country and the levels are beginning to recede. But for the thousands still stranded, homeless, and without supplies, it will be a long haul to dry land. We revisit the parts of Hull that suffered so badly last month and ask the government what future lessons will be learned from all this.
Vivisection
If you're a monkey and you have electrodes inserted in your brain, you may well take issue with the government describing the procedure as 鈥渕oderate鈥. Indeed, you don't have to be a monkey.
A campaign group called the British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection is taking the government to court to argue the fate of lab animals and has accused it of failing in its duty to keep suffering to a minimum.
Is there enough evidence of the benefits to human health to justify this type of experimentation? We'll be debating that in the studio later with a surgeon who tests on animals and then uses the results to cure people.
Translators
Hundreds of local Iraqi translators risk their lives for the British military and the Foreign Office in places where our troops are stationed. They work - often in fear - and too often for little in return. What should this country be offering them? Tonight, David Loyn brings us their story.
Pay Gap
It sounds like a cracked record. It is, in fact, a cracked record: Women fly our planes, fight in our armed forces, run our hospitals, run our country, fill our television screens etc etc etc. Yet the pay gap between them and their male counterparts won't go away. Why not?
Comments Post your comment
A Fat Club run by the sugarmarkets i mean supermarkets?
People confuse love with food. I once went to an local animal 'farm' where children could feed the animals. In one room was the biggest fattest rabbit i have ever seen whose face looked like he couldn't eat another thing lying on its back in a complete 'dead to the world' sleep surround by half eaten carrots. One small child poking a carrot through the grill at the snoring rabbit said in a hurt kind of tone 'Mummy why is the rabbit not eating?'
Feeding as a sign of love means you end up with the fat rabbit.
Complain about this post
I am curious about what the role of the Environment Agency is in all this. Their 03/04 - 07/08 Strategy for Flood Risk Management talks a lot about moving from "Flood Prevention" to "Flood Risk Management" - and also says that investment in defenses is "believed to be inadequate".
I seem to recall talk a few years back of eco-friendly mitigation strategies rather than aggressive prevention strategies.
Is this a story of adverse weather or a story of another government agency that is out of its depth.
Complain about this post
FLOODS
Gordon Brown is far more responsible for the floods than the 成人快手 is telling everyone. Was it not Gordon Brown who stole money through a Windfall tax on Water Companies in 1997, was it not Mr Brown who is still stealing 拢5 billion a year from pension funds. Both of these thefts mean that the Water Companies have not been able to use that money to spend on water and flood infrastructure. Why does the media not ask Mr Brown some hard questions!
Complain about this post
I have opposed experimenting on animals since first discovering to my surprise that it was allowed. I'm not an 'animal lover' but believe that the way we treat them reflects our attitudes to one another.
If we torture animals - and I am not fooled by the word 'testing' into calling it anything else - we degrade ourselves as people.
We kill animals for food and slaughter our human enemies on the battlefield, but Vivisection is a sickening misuse of our power and a harbinger of how we might justify ill-treating each other.
Complain about this post
VIVISECTION
The deliberate mistreatment of any animal diminishes us. My particular beef is against removing the young from their mothers and placing them in experimental conditions with a view to expanding and testing their learning capability. This amounts to vivisection of the infant from the mother with associated pain inflicted on both. It was recently established that: regardless of whether pain is generated mentally or physically, it is processed in just one part of the brain. Nature has honed her own way of transferring information from mother to the very young, and we intrude at our peril. Human infancy, in the 鈥渁dvanced world鈥, is now one big laboratory experiment turning out hurt and traumatised individuals who will probably grow up to delight in sticking electrodes in monkeys 鈥 maybe even in their parents, if they can get them to stand still long enough.
Complain about this post
I am an animal lover and have two dogs which were rescued by the humane society and I raised from pups. I had another dog I raised had loved for 15 years. But animal life cannot be equated with human life and the sacrifice of lab animals although painful to contemplate is necessary to develop procedures and drugs which extend, improve, and save countless lives of both humans and other animals. I worked for a pharmaceutical company for awhile and many of the people who worked there are animal lovers and have pets too. If the antivivisectionists had their way, the first living thing a surgeon would cut open would be a human being and there are NO computer models which can substitute for testing of procedures and experimental drugs on animals. We should be greatful that we have dedicated scientists and technicians who are willing and able to perform this necessary work we all benefit from.
Complain about this post
TRANSLATORS
I am poised to send this email because I fear you have succumbed to a common confusion between the professions of translation and interpreting. Translators work exclusively with written documents, rendering them from one language to another. Interpreters work between two (or more) languages using the spoken medium. Many practitioners do both, but the two practices do have different names.
I do hope you prove me wrong and that your piece is actually about translators.
15 minutes later... I find that the piece is indeed about interpreters (your reporter gets it right), so I am sending this message.
It is a simple matter of politeness to use the term that people use to describe themselves.
Complain about this post
I am a Parkinson's sufferer, earlier on this year I underwent the DBS surgery performed by Professor Aziz. This operation has changed my life, I have a future again and I am able to plan my life with my family. This is only possible because of the wonderful work of Professor Aziz. In my mind Professor Aziz should be supported and praised for his work. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Professor Aziz from the bottom of my heart, as would my husband and two daughters.
Complain about this post
The representative of the 'Abolition of Vivisection' group displayed a disgraceful willingness to conflate and misrepresent issues in this debate. She blatantly tried to associate animal testing for cosmetics with the testing of animals for medical research 鈥 most scientist would not support the use of animals for this purpose. She also refused to accept Tipu Aziz鈥檚 proposal that that rejection of animal testing would require turning ones back on a major slice of modern medicine. This is a reflection of either ignorance or wilful manipulation of the facts.
Animal testing in this country is very carefully regulated and it is only allowed where other methods cannot be used - do not be hood-winked into thinking that all experimentation can be undertaken in cell culture or in a test tube.
Complain about this post
I was grateful that Michelle Thew from BUAV challenged Tipu Aziz over his vile and very questionable animal experiments. I am saddened that Oxford University is still in the Stone Age carrying out such outdated experiments when there are plenty of modern and RELIABLE alternatives. If the government kept to their word and had a Royal Commission on the effectiveness or otherwise of vivisection all animal tested drugs would have to be withdrawn and the pharmaceutical industry would collapse overnight. That is why vivisection continues - it all comes down to money and to hell with animal suffering. Shame on them.
Complain about this post
The representative of the 'Abolition of Vivisection' group displayed a disgraceful willingness to conflate and misrepresent issues in this debate. She blatantly tried to associate animal testing for cosmetics with the testing of animals for medical research 鈥 most scientist would not support the use of animals for this purpose. She also refused to accept Tipu Aziz鈥檚 proposal that that rejection of animal testing would require turning ones back on a major slice of modern medicine. This is a reflection of either ignorance or wilful manipulation of the facts.
Animal testing in this country is very carefully regulated and it is only allowed where other methods cannot be used - do not be hood-winked into thinking that all experimentation can be undertaken in cell culture or in a test tube.
Complain about this post
I was grateful that Michelle Thew from BUAV challenged Tipu Aziz over his vile and very questionable animal experiments. I am saddened that Oxford University is still in the Stone Age carrying out such outdated experiments when there are plenty of modern and RELIABLE alternatives. If the government kept to their word and had a Royal Commission on the effectiveness or otherwise of vivisection all animal tested drugs would have to be withdrawn and the pharmaceutical industry would collapse overnight. That is why vivisection continues - it all comes down to money and to hell with animal suffering. Shame on them.
Complain about this post
Once again the Newsnight team has uploaded the edition from the previous week instead of yesterday's episode for viewing from the website! This is extremely frustrating! This is the third time in the last 2 weeks! Please get your website procedures sorted out.
Complain about this post
With more heavy rains on the way, the gov. should really think about doing something a little more pro-active and get some crop dusters or water bommers into the air to seed the clouds with dry ice and silver iodine (like they do in China to stop hail) in order to drain them of rain before they can reach already flooded areas and do more damage.
Complain about this post
One of the by-products of having food grown and killed for a modern western society is that vegetarians, anti vivs and the animal liberator are born, they have become quite powerful lobbyist for the cause of other creatures. Not so long ago you had to grow your own food and cut the throats of chickens and pigs if you wished to survive in this country. If you grow up into a sanitized world of mass produced food, unaware of its source and one day witness the death of a creature and then its presented as a meal, don't be surprised that some will barf at the thought of eating a creature that only a few minutes earlier was running around, hence we have the over-sensitive turning veggie and wishing to save the poor chicken.
Anti vivisectionist are the type who like the rest of us, have benefited from modern food production but they still deny the fact that man is a meat eater, not a pretend sausage meat pulp swallower. Experiments that have been carried out over the years by animal vivisectionist trying to discover cure's for diseases that still puzzle medical science or are approaching medical breakthroughs should not be hindered by anti-vivs.
We have dogs and cats as pets, in other parts of the world they are eaten, and much as we find it difficult to witness fido caged and finally bludgeoned to death for its meat, quite frankly thats the way the world is, but we in turn are laughed at for having donkey sactuary's whilst people around the world are starving , anti-vivs are upset but not as much as someone starving and would kill for a piece of meat or for someone wishing for a speedy cure to some disease. if one feels so strongly about animal experiments can i suggest you put yourself forward for medical science, lets just see how committed you are to the premise you hold so dear to the welfare of rodents, rats and monkeys..and as for computer models for replacing animal experiments, can that really be an alternative to animal experimentation? ...er no.
Complain about this post
When the Victorians had problems with sewage in London they put Joseph Bazalgette in charge of sorting out the problem. Though one of the greatest engineers of the time he struggled with what was the monumental task of building London's sewers. When we have a problem we put people like Baroness Young in charge of the Environment Agency, as she whittered on about "climate-change-proofing our drainage system" and other such nonsense it became clear that she hasn't a clue about what she was talking about. Whilst she may be able to drop in trendy buzz words and write a good press release she is clearly useless on the technical side.
And that pretty well sums up many problems in this country today. Politicians who have never had a proper job employing trendy intellectuals on quangos to oversee major parts of the country's infrastructure. Real engineers and men of the world are despised as blue collar workers who wouldn't know a good press release if it hit them in the face. Until that changes and you get rid of people like Baroness Young and replace her with a modern day Joseph Bazalgette things will only get worse.
Complain about this post
I prefer to 'watch' the PC feed the next day, but as seems to happen every so often it is pointing elsewhere. So it is hard to comment in detail.
And as I am also getting a pop-up when I do (on my PC, requiring me to log on from another) which says rather baldly, and unhelpfully, 'you are not allowed to comment' (er, why?) it gets even trickier.
So may I express a frustration with such posting efforts that when very pertinent questions do get asked, they almost inevitably do not get answered.
How about an on-air follow-up when it is obviously warranted and you have some nifty one-liners to pose?
I am still trying to understand how these floods are described by all levels of government from Dear Leader down as 'without precedent' and 'unable to predict', when I keep hearing that they have happened before (on Newsnight) and were predicted (Guardian Front Page).
Who doesn't know their facts, or is simply enhancing the truth?
Complain about this post
FLOODING (Spot on Simon - Post 16)
Baroness Young and the causes of BY.
When I stood for parliament as agent provocateur, in 2005 (Newbury) my slogan was: 鈥淪poil Party Games鈥 and my credo: 鈥淧olitics is the art of self deception, wrapped in the craft of deceiving others for their own good鈥. Blair was the epitome of the foregoing.
As I strutted my stuff, it dawned on me that it is the existence of PARTIES that brings with it all the ills we observe. The obscene war chests, the defensive non-answers to the simplest questions, the routine rubbishing of the 鈥渙thers鈥. The game playing with media inquisitors, wherein the deviousness of quizzed, in defence of party, or pursuit of party-gain, is never quite confronted, goes unchallenged; it is poked at but no coup de gras. AND ALL CLEARLY APPARENT TO THE IMPOTENT PUBLIC. No wonder everything government touches suffers from some degree failure. The party system, with pre-selected party-fodder MPs who are not local heroes but party backside-lickers, draws not altruistic men and women of integrity, but ambitious belongers, who are prepared to toe party line and 鈥渢ake the whip鈥 These can hardly be Britain鈥檚 finest, and it show in outcomes. I shall not stand again (I made my point and it cost 拢500) but I shall certainly be active on the streets of Newbury when the election is called. I shall be asking people to challenge candidates to discard their rosette and stand as themselves. The 鈥渞osette stand鈥 politicians, won鈥檛 like it up 鈥榚m!
With all this talk of 鈥渁ll the talents鈥 and 鈥渁ll party鈥 this and that, the obvious question is: 鈥淚f one aspect of government deserves the discarding of party strife 鈥 why not all?鈥
I am not a good enough historian to know quite why we started with parties; I am a good enough rationalist to know that they persist only to serve small minds who love petty combat, disregarding the governmental quality and monetary loss to the country. Global companies do not divide management into parties, the better to run their affairs. Until we demolish this charade we will mismanage everything.
Complain about this post
The newsnight sisterhood want more money?
The earth mothers have a point. Because bbc tv women have a shorter shelf life then they should get more to compensate?
So not only less pay but they get less time too?
Complain about this post
All of this rain and flooding makes me think there might be an untapped business opportunity in Britain....selling houseboats.
Complain about this post
Quite right too Emily - Paxo on a million and we never see him Great work if you can get it
Newsnight off Air soon
Complain about this post
We live in an equal society now why should women be paid less for doing the same jobs?
Emily does the Job just as well as Paxman. She should be on more often not just when Paxman's off!
Complain about this post